EU Copyright Reform Looking At Restricting Outdoor Photography

Authorities Can't Find Anything To Charge Alleged 'Extremist' With But Still Insist On 24-Hour Monitoring, Computer Restrictions

from the fighting-terrorism-means-never-having-to-make-sense dept

Wed, Jun 24th 2015 6:01am — Tim Cushing

Canada's civil liberties-trampling anti-terrorism law (C-51) only recently passed, but authorities have been nothing if not proactive in combating the threat posed by radicalized citizens. Co-opting US law enforcement's belief that supportive words = 'material support,' the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) raided the home of an "extremist," arresting him and seizing a bunch of his computer equipment.

Harun Abdurahman, known as Aaron Driver to his father, apparently came under surveillance after expressing his "extreme views" during an interview with a Canadian newspaper. His father, a career member of the Canadian Armed Forces, seems somewhat dismayed by his government's actions.

"They told me he was on the watch list. He was considered a radical extremist and 'we hope he doesn't go to terrorist,'" said the man's father in an exclusive interview with CBC News in March. The CBC is not identifying the father.

"Here you've got your national security force, if you will, monitoring your child," he said. "How would you react to something like that? I didn't know what to say."

Driver/Abdurahman may be C-51's first test case/victim, even though his surveillance and arrest occurred before the law was passed. But if the aftermath of this arrest is any indication, Canadians who articulate "extreme" views have a lot more reasons to fear their government than their government has reason to fear them.

After spending a week in jail, Driver has been released. He has not been charged, but federal authorities are treating him as though he just served a lengthy prison sentence for an incredibly heinous crime. There are 25 stipulations attached to his release (once again, not charged with any crime) which will severely limit Driver's ability to live anything approaching a normal life.

Here are just a few of the restrictions imposed by authorities:

Wear an electronic monitoring device around the clock.
Take part in "religious counselling" and forward the counsellor's name to RCMP.
Follow an overnight curfew (from 9 p.m. to 6 a.m. daily) and stay at his home in Winnipeg's Charleswood neighbourhood. The home was raided earlier this month.
Surrender any passports he has and not apply for any passport from Canada or any other country.
Not possess any desktop, laptop or tablet computer. Any cellphone he has must be approved by RCMP, and the phone number must be submitted to police.
Provide passwords and access to his cellphone at the RCMP's request, with "such requests not to exceed two times per month."
Stay away from social media websites, including Facebook, Twitter, Kik, Surespot and Telegram encrypted chat.
Have "no contact or communication directly or indirectly with any member of ISIS, ISIL, Islamic State of Iraq and Syria and Al Qaida in Iraq." He must also not possess anything bearing the logos or names of any of those groups.

The government believes these are reasonable restrictions to place on a person who has not been charged with nor convicted of any criminal activity. Federal prosecutor Ian Mahon sees these stipulations -- which are far more severe than those that convicted criminals face -- as nothing more than an appropriate level of quid pro quo.

"If he is willing to enter into certain conditions, then there's no reason to keep him in custody," Mahon told CBC News on Monday.

How about "if he hasn't been charged with any crimes, then there's no reason to keep him in custody?" That's sort of how criminal custody works. Apparently, plenty of exceptions will be made for someone deemed dangerous enough to justify a raid involving several officers loaded in tactical gear and the seizure of electronics, but not dangerous enough to be charged and put on trial. This is the Canadian government aggressively chilling speech it doesn't like and nothing more.

And for all the supposed danger Driver posed, the police didn't seem to exercise much care during its weeks of surveillance.

Neighbours say undercover officers have been watching the home in the city's southwestern neighbourhood of Charleswood for months.

LOL. "Undercover."

If the RCMP truly believed this was a dangerous individual, it would have done better obscuring its presence. But all it was looking for was an excuse to bust someone for the nonexistent crime of supporting unpopular views. It openly surveilled a Canadian citizen, held him for a week without charge and then only agreed to release the uncharged Driver if he would agree to further round-the-clock scrutiny from authorities so concerned about his online comments, they couldn't even find anything to charge him with.

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Filed Under: aaron driver, c-51, canada, extremism, harun abdurahman, isis, rcmp

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That One Guy (profile), 24 Jun 2015 @ 4:18am

For a very loose definition of 'willing'
"If he is willing to enter into certain conditions, then there's no reason to keep him in custody," Mahon told CBC News on Monday.

I imagine the only reason he was 'willing' was they told him he either accepted the terms, or they'd keep him locked up for a couple of years while they 'investigated' him to find something to charge him with.

An armed raid on your house, followed by stewing in a cell for a week, with the promise of a lot more time behind bars unless you basically plead guilty to the accusations leveled at you so those involved can brag about the 'would be terrorist' they caught? Yeah, not exactly a situation conductive to non-coerced 'agreements'.

"Here you've got your national security force, if you will, monitoring your child," he said. "How would you react to something like that? I didn't know what to say."

Just a suggestion but, "I hereby resign" and/or "I did not sign up to serve in the military of a country that acts in this fashion towards it's own citizens" would seem to be appropriate responses.
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Ninja (profile), 24 Jun 2015 @ 5:20am

after expressing his "extreme views" during an interview with a Canadian newspaper

How do you define a point of view as "extreme"? Let's look back in time. Were the views of ones that considered the monarchy a bad system extreme? Were the ones that spoke against racism extreme in their views in the early XX century? Were the views of the ones that spoke against slavery in 1700 or something extreme?

Can't our fucking stupid governments learn from history a little bit?
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 24 Jun 2015 @ 6:21am

Someone please take stock of those cheering this on, because I want to see their faces the day it expands to nab them as well. The definitions always expand and grab more, to show a larger pool of "bad guys" being caught... at the expense of justice & rights.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Jun 2015 @ 6:26am

Re:
They're doing this on purpose. 14 years is long enough to see that this approach is how NOT to fight terrorists. Of course, they'd rather not kill off their gravy train and remove their crowns any time soon.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Jun 2015 @ 6:29am

Aaron Driver
Really? Next we will find out that he worked as his father's personal assistant.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Jun 2015 @ 6:31am

I don't understand
If you haven't been charged with a crime, how can the state justify restricting your liberties?
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Quiet Lurcker, 24 Jun 2015 @ 6:50am

Re: I don't understand
Remember Pavlov and his dogs? How he taught them to salivate at the sound of a bell? That's what's going on here.

Any time government types hear words like 'radicalized', 'terrorist', 'jihadist', or similar, they immediately go brain-dead (or should that be 'more brain-dead than they already are'?).

As part of this reaction, they will ignore things like civil liberties, common sense, laws, history, or any of perhaps half a hundred things which would serve to underline the ignorance of what they're doing or proposing to do.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Jun 2015 @ 6:53am

Re: I don't understand
Simple, they disliked his views therefore .....
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Jun 2015 @ 6:57am

Re: I don't understand
That sounds like something only a terrorist would say!

Quick arrest him/her but never bother to charge him/her of anything so he/she can't prove himself/herself innocent of the charges!
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Laroquod (profile), 24 Jun 2015 @ 7:03am

Re: I don't understand
It's called a 'Peace Bond' and it's apparently a vestige of English Common Law...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_bond

https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Canadian_Criminal_Proced ure_and_Practice/Pre-Trial_Matters/Peace_Bonds
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Jun 2015 @ 7:24am

That *is* prison
Not conventional prison, of course, but it's prison. He's restricted to a particular region (as far as he can travel in 7.5 hours, since he can only leave at 6 and has to be back at 21), not only physically but also mentally (not being able to have a computer or access social networks means he's cut off from most of the world).

He also can't talk to anyone at all. Due to what is popularly known as "six degrees of separation", everyone is indirectly connected to the evil organizations listed.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Jun 2015 @ 7:33am

Re:
Their perspective doesnt go beyond the wad of cash stuck in front of them. I'm referring to the US govt - but I'm sure its the same up there...unfortunately.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Jun 2015 @ 7:38am

My reaction is; if he wasn't an extremist before, he soon will be, because he would have more freedom under Sharia law than in a so called democratic country.
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John Fenderson (profile), 24 Jun 2015 @ 7:56am

Religious counselling??
Amongst all the horribles in this story, this stood out:

Take part in "religious counselling" and forward the counsellor's name to RCMP.

So they are now treating religion as mental illness. At least they're being upfront about it.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Jun 2015 @ 7:59am

I would get the hell out of canada, but where to go?
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Jun 2015 @ 8:01am

Ahh. Bill C-51. From the government that claimed the long form census was too invasive
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Gwiz (profile), 24 Jun 2015 @ 8:05am

Re: Religious counselling??
Amongst all the horribles in this story, this stood out:

Yeah, I agree.

Does that counseling have be from a member of an "approved" religion?

If so, that's not just a slippery slope, it's a Teflon mountainside covered with baby oil.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Jun 2015 @ 8:18am

considering Fuerher Harper considers being pro environmentalism as an extreme view and harmful to his bank accounts. I have little doubt there will soon be a great many Canadians being watched under this Law for the crime of trying to save the environment and/or just opposing the dear leaders views.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Jun 2015 @ 8:20am

I wouldn't be surprised if he does something extreme when they take him off the leash.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Jun 2015 @ 8:23am

Re: I don't understand
Soft dictatorship. The state says jump and everyone rushes to do what they are told without thinking critically about it
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neghvar (profile), 24 Jun 2015 @ 8:40am

Re:
Cross the US border and demand asylum. Since he has not been convicted or charged with anything, this is obviously a political vendetta and not criminal. Thus the US may grant asylum based on his situation of injustice.
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Vincent Clement (profile), 24 Jun 2015 @ 8:49am

Re: I don't understand
By passing laws that allow the government to get around Constitutional rights under the guise of safety and security. For example, if you suffer from major depression, go to an ER and tell the nurse you have suicidal thoughts, the government can 'form' you, essentially making you a ward of the crown. Same goes for kids taken by the government.
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tqk (profile), 24 Jun 2015 @ 9:10am

Re: That *is* prison
No it's not. They may have intended that, but they're incompetent. He may not have a computer, yet they tell him to stay away from social media sites. Great, all he needs is Tails Linux on a USB key and an internet cafe, and he'll be the next recruiter or publicist for IS, untraceably so.
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Roger Strong (profile), 24 Jun 2015 @ 9:11am

Re: Re:
The US kidnapped and tortured Canadian Maher Arar for 11 months, merely for knowing someone who knew someone who expressed the same opinions as Driver.

This word you keep using, "asylum", I do not think it means what you think it means.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Jun 2015 @ 9:17am

Re: Religious counselling??
To be fair, a lot of people develop weird beliefs when they're not properly educated. So many, in fact, that it seems like a poor use of resources to re-educate each person on an individual basis.

Maybe the Canadian government could set up a system of communal retreats to provide services to larger groups of people all at once. They could even make it fun, like going away to summer camp.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Jun 2015 @ 9:22am

Re: Re: That *is* prison
Well, he'll be wearing an electronic monitoring device. They could just tag the GPS coordinates of libraries and add an explosive charge to the ankle bracelet. He wanders too close to a Forbidden Zone? Boom.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Jun 2015 @ 9:27am

Re:
It's just like Gitmo. Anyone being released is more likely to be a terrorist coming out than he was going in.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Jun 2015 @ 9:29am

Re: I don't understand
Because terrorism and child pornography.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Jun 2015 @ 10:12am

Re: Re: I don't understand
Interesting, thanks for this information.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Jun 2015 @ 10:13am

Re: Re: Religious counselling??
.. and if that doesn't work. You and the other "non conformists" will be ushered into new and improved "group" tanning facility located at said "summer camp", where you will receive a nice crispy tan from a 2,000 degree blast furnace.

I feel like we've been down this road before.....
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Jun 2015 @ 10:20am

Yo dawg, I heard you like extremism ...
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Jun 2015 @ 10:23am

Re: Re: Religious counselling??
To be fair, a lot of people develop weird beliefs when they're not properly educated.

It is the nature of youth to explore the more extreme areas of politics and social systems. It is not a lack of education, but rather part of exploring how society functions. Almost all become less extreme as they realize the implications of the extremes, and they take on more responsibilities in life.
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PRMan, 24 Jun 2015 @ 10:28am

Re: Religious counselling??
Maybe they just want someone to teach him the Qur'an more correctly, so he won't be so radical:

Qur’an 9:29-Fight against Christians and Jews ”until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.”
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tqk (profile), 24 Jun 2015 @ 10:39am

Re: Religious counselling??
So they are now treating religion as mental illness.

Likely, they're only treating extremist (Jihadist) expressions as potentially dangerous. The rest of those nutbars are considered tamed.
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DigDug, 24 Jun 2015 @ 10:47am

Re: For a very loose definition of 'willing'
In the U.S., every person that joins the military swears to uphold the constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic.

Time for those Army Rangers, Navy Seals, Marine Recons to grab their weapons, fill up on ammunition, and start raiding the Executive branch terrorist members of the NSA, CIA, FBI, HSA and the White House, then after they've all been arrested and shipped off to Gitmo, slip over to the Judicial branch and arrest the FISA judges and ship them out as well, and finally, every member of the senate and house of congress can go as well.

Then we'll hold a continental congress and refill the posts with people that will actually reflect the needs and requirements to protect our rights and freedoms, which doesn't require stomping all over the constitution and bill of rights.
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tqk (profile), 24 Jun 2015 @ 10:57am

Re: Re:
Cross the US border and demand asylum.

Very funny. You're not taking this at all seriously. Even with all the Big Brother Canada might raise up against anyone, that would be a drop in the bucket compared to what the US could marshal against those like him.

Canada is still very much largely empty. Look at Labrador. There's plenty of places in this country you could go and never see another human being, assuming you've fuel to last the winter and Deet to last the bug season.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Jun 2015 @ 10:57am

Re:
"Can't our fucking stupid governments learn from history a little bit?"

They have. They don't want examples like the ones you mentioned to be repeated.
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tqk (profile), 24 Jun 2015 @ 11:00am

Re:
Fuhrer means leader. That's not what Harper does. He follows those he considers his leader, namely US fearmongers and corporations.
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Blackfiredragon13 (profile), 24 Jun 2015 @ 11:02am

Re: Re: For a very loose definition of 'willing'
Careful dug, you don't want the courts to consider your speech "threatening" do you? Remember reason!

/s
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Uriel-238 (profile), 24 Jun 2015 @ 11:17am

Yeah, I think Canada has just earned any act of terrorism Driver instigates.
This demonstrated that Canada is not a refuge of just conduct and guaranteed due process, but is, in fact, an oppressive regime that needs to be toppled.

Of course, I'm opinionated. I think the United States extrajudicial detainment, rendition and torture program retroactively justifies the attacks on 9/11 by demonstrating the true tainted colors of the US.
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johnvanvliet (profile), 24 Jun 2015 @ 11:21am

example
If you WANT to create " The Terrorist Known as 'V' "

this IS how a government needs to go about it

RCMP, you DO know YOU YOUR SELVES are CREATING these" so called" Terrorist !
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John Fenderson (profile), 24 Jun 2015 @ 12:03pm

Re: Re: Religious counselling??
"To be fair, a lot of people develop weird beliefs when they're not properly educated."

As long as we're being fair, a lot of people develop weird beliefs when they are properly educated. But that's beside the point.

The point is, what is a "weird belief?" To my eyes, all religious beliefs are very weird -- and everyone should be able to have any weird belief that they wish.

It's not the government's place to declare that some beliefs are unacceptable and need to be expunged through therapy. Haven't western nations spent decades demonizing the USSR for doing exactly that?
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John Fenderson (profile), 24 Jun 2015 @ 12:07pm

Re: Re: Religious counselling??
Then why cast it in religious terms rather than taking the more reasonable stance that people who tend to be dangerously violent should get some help?
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Jun 2015 @ 12:24pm

Re: Re: Re: Religious counselling??
Haven't western nations spent decades demonizing the USSR for doing exactly that?
True. But it was easier for me to work a reference to Maoism into my comment than anything related to the USSR. 'Gulag' would've stuck out like a sore thumb.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Jun 2015 @ 12:35pm

Extremely angry...
I don't know about this guy - but being treated the way he is would certainly make me angry... and when a government pisses off its citizens for no reason other than to fuck with their lives, that's when you really see shit hitting the fan.
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JoeCool (profile), 24 Jun 2015 @ 1:18pm

Re: For a very loose definition of 'willing'
"Just a suggestion but, "I hereby resign" and/or "I did not sign up to serve in the military of a country that acts in this fashion towards it's own citizens" would seem to be appropriate responses."

Except if Canada's military is anything like any other military, you can't simply resign. When you join the military, you're stuck for a set time when you sign up (usually something like 5 or 6 years). If you don't do your duty for the FULL period, you do the rest of said period in a military prison before being dishonorably discharged. The dad is well and truly stuck.
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JoeCool (profile), 24 Jun 2015 @ 1:28pm

Re: example
They've been taking lessons from the FBI: if you can't find a terrorist, make them yourself! Then claim victory for Democracy.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Jun 2015 @ 1:40pm

If he isnt a terrorist yet....
He sure will be after having that garbage pulled on him.

What a dumb way to drive someone into the enemies hands.

RCMP, you must be as stupid as our DOJ.
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Jun 2015 @ 2:37pm

Re: For a very loose definition of 'willing'
Just a side note, but their commander in chief is Queen Elizabeth II, and not the Canadian government. If things get sticky, that could make a difference.
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That One Guy (profile), 24 Jun 2015 @ 3:02pm

Re: If he isnt a terrorist yet....
It's called 'ensuring job security'.
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That One Guy (profile), 24 Jun 2015 @ 3:09pm

Re: Re: For a very loose definition of 'willing'
Well I'm sure that won't have any effect on his ability to do his job, being constantly reminded that the very government he's serving considers his son to be a would-be-terrorists, treats him like one, yet doesn't have enough proof to actually try him as one.

Nope, I'm sure he'll still be proud as can be of his service after this little event.

/s
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Jun 2015 @ 3:15pm

Criminal law with SAFEGUARDS against an "overbearing" government to terrorist laws to whatever the fuck i want laws
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Justme, 24 Jun 2015 @ 7:43pm

Use their playbook. . .
I don't know what opinions he was expressing, so without any opinion on those, i would still take a page for the government's playbook by using their actions in this case to demonstrate that your opinion are perhaps not so extreme considering the government's conduct.

After all, they like to portray opposition to government surveillance as a threat, that not only vindicates that surveillance but also as a justification for expanding it.
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tracyanne (profile), 24 Jun 2015 @ 9:07pm

Re: So they are now treating religion as mental illness. At least they're being upfront about it.
It's probably the only thing they managed to get right.
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tqk (profile), 25 Jun 2015 @ 7:48am

Re: example
RCMP, you DO know YOU YOUR SELVES are CREATING these" so called" Terrorist!

The RCMP are not to blame here. They are merely the enforcers. They follow orders from the court and politicians.
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Anonymous Coward, 25 Jun 2015 @ 10:02am

Re: Re: I don't understand
This isn't classical conditioning ("Pavlov and his dogs") - what you're looking for is operant conditioning ("Skinner and his box"). While they are discussing video game design, I recommend this Extra Credits episode for a simple and accessible overview of the topic.

As for how operant condition applies to politics (you're absolutely right that it's a big part of our political problems), the best explanation I've seen is this RSA Animate about lying.
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GEMont, 25 Jun 2015 @ 7:59pm

Dominions Dominate Domestic Denizens
Finally, the Fascist Dominion of Canada has dropped its phony "democracy" label and now proudly parades about, displaying its true colors... er.. I meant "colours" of course.

----
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nasch (profile), 26 Jun 2015 @ 6:26am

Re: Religious counselling??
So they are now treating religion as mental illness.

Is "religious counseling" counseling to remove religion, or counseling by a religious figure? A strange requirement either way.
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nasch (profile), 26 Jun 2015 @ 6:31am

Re: Re: I don't understand
Not that I can blame the guy, but I wonder what would have happened if he had refused. In the US, there's a very short period of time someone can be held without bringing criminal charges (unless you're talking about Gitmo of course, then anything goes). What's the situation in Canada? Does the special terrorism law let them lock people up for a long time without putting them on trial? Isn't there something in the Constitution prohibiting such behavior?
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GEMont, 26 Jun 2015 @ 12:44pm

Re: Re: Re:
"...assuming you've fuel to last the winter and Deet to last the bug season."

Wow. Sounds like you've actually been to Canader!
You didn't even mention the words Eskimo or Skis!
You sure you're a Real American??

I read somewhere, years back, that an entire regiment of Canajun Soldiers had to be rescued from the Labrador or Manitoba woods during a military exercise because of Black Flies.

Now that's grim.

---
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Uriel-238 (profile), 26 Jun 2015 @ 12:54pm

I think I want Gitmo to be a verb
Git · mo
Verb
To carry off or lead away (a person) extrajudicially and in secret or by force, esp. by a state agency or institution, esp. to be tortured or detained cruelly.

We thought Abel was abducted by aliens. Turns out he was Gitmo'd by the local sheriff.
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tqk (profile), 26 Jun 2015 @ 2:31pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
You didn't even mention the words Eskimo or Skis!

They're called Inuit these days, and lots of countries the world over think skiing is fun. Been there, done that, never again.
You sure you're a Real American?

North American, yes. US citizen, no. You think "American" only applies to residents of the USA ("United States ***OF*** America")? Millions of Canadians, Central Americans, and South Americans disagree. However, we've learned to accept the arrogant delusions of you "Americans."
I read somewhere, years back, that an entire regiment of Canajun Soldiers had to be rescued from the Labrador or Manitoba woods during a military exercise because of Black Flies.

Proves my point. It's hell to go outside if it's not -40. Somebody screwed up scheduling maneuvers during bug season. Someone quantified it as 600 bites per minute in downtown Winterpeg.

North in the Territories, I hear the mosquitos are six feet (ca. two metres) long and 200 lb. (200 * 0.4535923 == 90 kg.).

That may just be the Inuit trying to dissuade us from going there.
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nasch (profile), 26 Jun 2015 @ 2:57pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
However, we've learned to accept the arrogant delusions of you "Americans."

I'm not sure how much is arrogance and how much is convenience. What other word would one use to describe someone from the US?
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Uriel-238 (profile), 26 Jun 2015 @ 5:05pm

Someone from the US
My vote is for "Damn Colonial"

This coming from a Californian. Speaking of which, an easy workaroundnis to specify which state.
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tqk (profile), 26 Jun 2015 @ 7:31pm

Re: Someone from the US
I like "Yanqui", but "damned Yanqui" would work as well.
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Uriel-238 (profile), 26 Jun 2015 @ 7:51pm

Yanqui
Looks a bit like boi, grrl, wymyn, etc.
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tqk (profile), 26 Jun 2015 @ 8:29pm

Re: Yanqui
Ask a Chicano, your hottest growing demographic these days I'm told.
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nasch (profile), 26 Jun 2015 @ 9:45pm

Re: Someone from the US
Speaking of which, an easy workaroundnis to specify which state.

That doesn't have the same meaning.
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GEMont, 26 Jun 2015 @ 11:39pm

Re: Re: Religious counselling??
Not absolutely certain, but in Canada I think "Religious Counselling" is slang for being raped while in "custody", such as while serving time in prison, or while awaiting trial in lock-up, or as a punishment/coercion treatment during police station jail-room interrogation.

Its derived from the many Canadian Church Child molestation cases, in which raped children are mentally imprisoned via death threats by church members - no pun intended there - to prevent the children from reporting their molesters.

As it was mainly done to Native Indian children, it was always pretty much approved of and universally covered up by all levels of government and law enforcement, as a rule.

It is certainly a more legal form of torture than water boarding, since its usually carried out by incarcerated criminals, and its a torture that deals an extremely long lasting mental repercussion, that will likely make any border-line or wannabe Canajun terrorist think twice about typing the word "bomb" anywhere in the True North Strong and Free.

/s

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GEMont, 27 Jun 2015 @ 12:01am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Dunno about that "myth".

A friend, long ago, sent me a polaroid from the NW Territories where he was working, of two mosquitoes flying - apparently in circles - whilst tied together with thin string, and them beasts looked to be about three to four inches long.

Of course, they mighta been males. :)

As for national pride, the older I get, the less I can understand how anyone, in any country, can actually be nationalistic and patriotic unless they literally avoid reality altogether. What amazes me even more is the incredible number of such people on earth today.

I assume its something in the water, or due to car exhaust fumes. Maybe sunspots....

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