David Patraeus, Who Leaked Classified Info To His Mistress, Says Snowden Should Be Prosecuted
from the say-that-again? dept
Last week, the Intercept published Ed Snowden's powerful foreword to Jeremy Scahill's new book The Assassination Complex. The foreword is entitled: Whistleblowing Is Not Just Leaking — It’s an Act of Political Resistance. It's really worth reading. In it, among other things, he does note that there are very different kinds of leaking information. There are situations where you are alerting the public to important information. And then there are... other situations. Like what happened to former CIA Director, General David Petraeus:Not all leaks are alike, nor are their makers. Gen. David Petraeus, for instance, provided his illicit lover and favorable biographer information so secret it defied classification, including the names of covert operatives and the president’s private thoughts on matters of strategic concern. Petraeus was not charged with a felony, as the Justice Department had initially recommended, but was instead permitted to plead guilty to a misdemeanor. Had an enlisted soldier of modest rank pulled out a stack of highly classified notebooks and handed them to his girlfriend to secure so much as a smile, he’d be looking at many decades in prison, not a pile of character references from a Who’s Who of the Deep State.That's a pretty good summary of the "high court" situation that lets powerful people like Petraeus get away with passing on such information that could have legitimately put people at risk.
So, it was interesting, just days later, to see a long interview in the Financial Times with David Petraeus, in which he's asked about Snowden (warning: the link may be paywalled). The interview covers many subjects, and the comment on Snowden is quite brief:
Should Edward Snowden be prosecuted, I ask? “Unquestionably,” he replies. “If Snowden had wanted to help that debate he could have very easily been a whistleblower who could have gone to the appropriate organisation and offered his views. He didn’t.”This is bullshit on so many levels. First, it's bullshit because Petreaus himself got off with barely a wrist slap for his own activity, which had nothing to do with whistleblowing and appeared to be much more dangerous than what Snowden did. Second, as Petreaus absolutely knows, the intelligence community does not treat whistleblowers well. Previous whistleblowers, including Thomas Drake, basically had their lives destroyed as punishment for using the "appropriate" channels for whistleblowing. Hell, just last week, we wrote about yet another case of an intelligence community whistleblower, who used the "appropriate" channels, suddenly having her home raided and her career in shambles.
Third, it's bullshit because even in using the "appropriate" channels, as an NSA contractor, Snowden was not protected from direct retaliation for whistleblowing. Fourth, it's bullshit because the "proper channels" would just be to run it up the line of people who thought it was hunky dory to lie to the American public to reinterpret the PATRIOT Act to enable them to spy on everyone's communications data. That wouldn't have done anything. Fifth, it's bullshit because once the information actually did get out through the press -- which never would have happened through "appropriate channels," it has set in motion a number of changes, among companies, individuals, Congress and the intelligence community. That's the point of whistleblowing, to actually change the behavior through alerting more people to what's going on.
But, really, it seems especially idiotic that someone in Petreaus' position would weigh in so hypocritically on Snowden's situation.
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Filed Under: david petraeus, ed snowden, high court, leaks, low court, prosecution, whistleblowing
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High Court/Low court
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Re: High Court/Low court
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You cannot compare the two.
Snowden acted in defense of the Constitution, passing classified information to the public in order to enable them to fight for their Constitutional rights. That's destabilizing the political establishment.
Of course the latter is an openly hostile act against those sworn to defend the Constitution, making Snowden an enemy of the state.
It would not be so if those sworn to defend the Constitution were not actively seeking to abolish it, but Snowden was perfectly aware that they were doing exactly this, so his acts clearly were hostile towards the government and its agencies.
So he cannot expect mercy. Not as long as the American People cheer on the scum that has stolen its country and turned it into a mockery of democratic processes.
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Missed one
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Re: Re: Missed one
The only way emails go "missing" is if someone deleted them. Maybe if they went after the email server with as much vigor as they went after the iPhones they could "find" the "missing" emails too. ROFL... I made a funny.
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Re: Re: Re: Missed one
It worked much the same way with the Wall Street banking scandal, when as usual, the only people to face any kind of punishment were the whistleblowers.
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Congratulations "General" Patraeus on taking the term "asshole" and catapulting it to a new level!
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Patraeus uses Hypocrite! It's not very effective...
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Re: Patraeus uses Hypocrite! It's not very effective...
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Re: Re: Patraeus uses Hypocrite! It's not very effective...
a long time insider like him ? NO DOUBT, he knows where some (literal) bodies are buried...
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Obviously Patraeus is Above the America's Laws
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Prosecuted, yes. Convicted??
First, I know of a person who is a retired army colonel and a retired lawyer. He has stated that Snowden should be prosecuted, however, he also has said that he isn't so sure about his being convicted.
(He also said Manning should have been stood against a wall and shot)
Second, Petraeus's stupidity didn't get out to the general public, and I understand his girlfriend also had a security clearance at the time. (Just not cleared for what Bonehead showed her)That may be why he wasn't tossed into prison.
As I recall, Snowden didn't release any names or blow operations against our enemies.
Now take Hillary Clinton. What she did was far worse that either Snowden or Petraeus. She had beyond secret information on that server of hers that could only have come from a secured network. (Top Secret Special Access Program)
From what I understand, that information can not be sent to an outside system. There is no connection to the internet. It would have had to have been transcribed from that system to a system that did have internet access.
Then there is the Guccifer issue. If he got into it, you can bet Russia, China, Iran and the 15 years old down the street did as well.
People I know who have, or have had security clearances have said that from what they've seen in the public record, Clinton should be cooling her heels in a cell right now.
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Re: Prosecuted, yes. Convicted??
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Re: Prosecuted, yes. Convicted??
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Re: Prosecuted, yes. Convicted??
Snowden leaked so that classified data could go out directly to the public. Classified is labeled, "Seriously damages the interests of the US." Snowden did this intentionally.
Petraeus gave documents to a US Officer with a security clearance. There was no disclosure to public, and hence, NOT seriously damaging US interests.
The rub is "need to know," but to be honest, that's not really held strict all the time. Ironically, Snowden made it harder because we had started to more freely share information across the government, but Snowden f'd that up. People don't trust NSA as much because when's their next guy going to leak? When you have a guy or two "go rogue," it gives you a black eye with other agencies.
I agree with Petraeaus, and I'll go a step farther to say, "Snowden should hang from a rope from a very tall tree."
You sign an agreement, and in cases of some, give an oath that you will protect this country when given information. Snowden's release led directly to grave damage. In war, he'd be shot on the spot. Petraeus' classified was just an embarrassment, more because he was having an affair.
Do you seriously think he's the first GO to share information with his biographer to assist them doing their job? No.
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Re: Re: Prosecuted, yes. Convicted??
No. He didn't. He provided the information to journalists to vet and select what would be released. Also the word "so" implies that you know his reasoning... which you don't.
No. You have no idea which classifications in which the information he provided the journalists was categorized.
Further there is no such classification. You are perhaps thinking of "Secret" which specifically addresses harm to NATIONAL SECURITY, which is not at all "the interests of the US", something you made up, which is not part of any classification. See e.g. http://www.fas.org/sgp/library/quist2/chap_7.html
Again, "US interests" is not part of a classification. Secondly "holding a clearance" is not a license to receive information. More specifically Petraeus is the one who took an oath and HE provided information to someone who was NOT cleared to receive them.
There are three components to receiving classified information and "holding a proper level/compartment" clearance is only one.
That's not "the rub". That's the second component that is REQUIRED to receive classified information. Please don't try and excuse it as a "rub" or as something you can gloss over in your zealous defense of this traitor.
"To be honest" means "I'm about to make something up which is purely fabricated opinion so I'm going to tell you I'm honest so you'll feel it has added credibility."
Cheap. Very cheap. To be honest it's lame.
So now you've gone from being honest to "implying" that the rules of providing classified information aren't really rules... they're not really strict... and hey what the hey right?
Wrong. The only people who violate the strictures are those who are violating their oath and Petraeus is a perfect example of that.
Made what "it" harder???
Bwahahahha. The least transparent administration... the most FOIA-obstructive administration... the most whistleblower-prosecuting administration... and you just pulled that sentence out your bum.
No. "We" had not started to share information more freely "across the government" even giving your random words some semblance of meaning.
...and the women who accuse Bill Cosby of rape really f'd up his reputation.
You, Sir, are absolving all who violated our rights of any responsibility... and instead putting the blame on the man who alerted the media of those violations.
No. People don't trust the NSA because the NSA has acted in an unconstitutional and untrustworthy manner and been brazen about running roughshod on our rights.
NOBODY ON THIS EARTH other than you says "We trust the NSA less because who knows when another person will leak information." People say "We DON'T trust the NSA because they do shifty things, they lie, they obfuscate, they interpret English words incorrectly to justify their lies and violations."
When you have women complaining about being raped it makes the guy who did it look bad with his golf buddies.
The NSA has gone rogue with its data collections practices. They have given the US intelligence services two black eyes.
Finally you label an opinion as such. Good for you. I disagree. Also hanging is accomplished from an available branch, not a "very tall tree". Nobody scales trees to hang people, Sir.
Yes, Petraeus DID sign that agreement and he DID take an oath... and then he gave classified documents to a third party.
No it didn't. Instead of a bland assertion I invite you to back up your comment with evidence.
Wow, not only do you know nothing about handling classified information, but you know NOTHING about war.
I invite you to look at the UCMJ. You'll note they have these things called "arrest" and "trial" and "verdict" and "sentence." http://www.ucmj.us/?s=punishment+for+treason
No. It was not "just an embarrassment." It wasn't "just a rub". It wasn't any of these excuses you've used to attempt to make light of a very serious thing -- the same serious thing you want to hang Snowden from an absurdly tall tree.
How is this relevant?
David Petraeus violated his oath and provided classified intel to a third party. That is a crime and only his connections got him pled down to a misdemeanor.
That anyone else did it or will do it doesn't change the nature of his crime.
I appreciate your sophistry... it's quite clever.
However, the true traitor is Petraeus... and those who attempt to rationalize and justify his behavior. Worse - those who would blame the victim.
Ehud
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Yes, she showed extremely poor judgement in using a personal server for government email and even poorer judgement in trusting that particular server for anything more than a TV shedule, but her sins pale besides David Patraeous's who, in a just world would not be saying anything because he would already have paid the ultimate price for his misdeeds (at least if you agree with Snowden haters as to what constitutes a reasonable price to pay).
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nothing to see here people; move along
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First off NONE of that email should have been on a private server in the first place. The State Dept. already had an email system in place. I know it's "gubmint" and they're a bit slow, but they really did have actual "secured"* and approved email systems in place and used by previous Secretaries of State.
Again, the State Dept. already had an email system in place. For her to go to the trouble of creating her own is not just bad judgement. On it's face, it has the appearance of subterfuge. There was simply no reason for Prisoner 3355779 (H.R. Clinton) to create her own email server at all unless there was something she was trying to, albeit unsuccessfully, hide.
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Congress committee chairman: "What did you know and when?"
Clinton/Madoff: "I didn't know. I can't tell you what I didn't know."
So Congress went off and wrote SO to state, "You will keep copies of your email systems. You will certify under oath that the systems conform and can be recalled to testify." If you fail to comply, federal prison and fines.
So here we are, an author of the bill that is supposed to create accountability and the ability to subpoena publicly traded large companies records is in charge of the entire State Department. And she violates multiple tenants: runs it off site, doesn't have back-ups, and when called to submit, picks and chooses what she sends.
This alone speaks volumes about integrity, accountability, competence, and trustworthiness.
If the police chief was caught stealing, when your house gets robbed, do you want him in charge?
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Sure could have fooled me.
First off NONE of the email on her server was classified when she received it.
Bullshit. Some information is "born classified", depending on the subject and source. Furthermore, anyone working with such information knows this. She has no excuse.
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I have a feeling Clinton is the reason that now, after having a clearance for 25 years, my annual classified refresher training is hours long and goes in depth to explain "Security Classification Guides," which explains that information can be classified multiple ways (which was like stating "Sky is blue, water is wet," to anyone with an IQ above that of a gnat).
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if you had a car as badly broken as this nation, you'd just tow it to the wrecking yard. too much wrong to fix. just replace it.
note to homewreckers . . . err . . . homely defense: i'm not advocating towing our nation anywhere. high purbs, ole, pal.
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what David Patraeus did, by informing 1 person (and a lover at that), about items that could have put people and the USA at serious risk, was, in my opinion, TREASON!
it's obvious, surely, that betraying your country is nowhere near as serious as letting people know what their security forces are doing. how would those forces ever be able to do what they want, in secret, ever again?
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This guy goes out of his way to remove the rights of his fellow citizens while propping him and his cronies up. He gets rewarded for it.
But if a slave has the audacity to expose the same thing then he needs to be punished for daring to raise above his station beneath the jackboot.
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Did any of Hillary's emails get out?
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Re: Did any of Hillary's emails get out?
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Don't you mean untouchable?
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Hypocrisy is not a crime, treason is.
I don't personally know any traitors.
When Petraeus PURPOSELY WILLFULLY and with WANTON DISREGARD FOR THE LAW provided top secret, sensitive, and compartmentalized secure information to an outside party he committed TREASON AGAINST THE UNITED STATES.
It is only a sign of the duality of justice for the 1% where he was given a misdemeanor slap on the rest.
For him to EVEN MENTION Snowden's name let alone mouth off as if he has any chops ... is an insult to traitors everywhere. For him to LIE and suggest [go through channels; whistleblower, etc, already covered above] is what I expect from a TRAITOR.
Do not forget.
Petraeus BETRAYED US. He committed treason against the United States of America. He is not someone who should be looked to for advice, opinion, suggestion, or commentary on how to behave in or around classified information. He is a DISGRACE to the UNIFORM, the armed services, and the many MEN AND WOMEN WHO WEAR THAT UNIFORM and don't betray the country.
So do I judge him for being a hypocrite? No. That's not even coming up to knee-biting level on him. He's a traitor.
Ehud
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This is not a dick size contest, or one of intelligence. This is about patriotism, love and service towards the country you have been born in and sworn in to serve, and personal integrity.
Mentioning Snowden in the same sentence with Petraeus is doing Snowden an injustice.
Yet Petraeus is free to hornswaggle about Snowden and brag about having sold government secrets for sex and pretended admiration, receiving little more backlash than a clap on the shoulder from his clan with a similarly dim view on its sworn and excessively well-paid duties.
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Petraeus & Whistleblowing
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