Google To France: No You Don't Get To Censor The Global Internet
from the well-this-could-get-interesting dept
As we've been covering here at Techdirt, French regulators have been pushing Google to censor the global internet whenever it receives "right to be forgotten" requests. If you don't recall, two years ago, there was a dangerous ruling in the EU that effectively said that people could demand Google remove certain links from showing up when people searched on their names. This "right to be forgotten" is now being abused by a ton of people trying to hide true information they just don't like being known. Google grudgingly has agreed to this, having little choice to do otherwise. But it initially did so only on Google's EU domain searches. Last year, a French regulator said that it needed to apply globally. Google said no, explaining why this was a "troubling development that risks serious chilling effects on the web."French regulators responded with "don't care, do it!" Google tried to appease the French regulators earlier this year with a small change where even if you went to Google.com, say, from France (rather than the default of Google.fr), Google would still censor the links based on your IP address. And, again, the French regulators said not good enough, and told Google it needed to censor globally. It also issued a fine.
As we noted at the time, Google immediately said it planned to appeal and that's now officially in motion, as was explained in a writeup on Google's own blog (and was also published in France's Le Monde newspaper).
As a matter of both law and principle, we disagree with this demand. We comply with the laws of the countries in which we operate. But if French law applies globally, how long will it be until other countries - perhaps less open and democratic - start demanding that their laws regulating information likewise have global reach? This order could lead to a global race to the bottom, harming access to information that is perfectly lawful to view in one’s own country. For example, this could prevent French citizens from seeing content that is perfectly legal in France. This is not just a hypothetical concern. We have received demands from governments to remove content globally on various grounds -- and we have resisted, even if that has sometimes led to the blocking of our services.This is a big, big deal for how the global internet will function. Giving the most censorious and autocratic countries veto powers over the global internet should obviously raise serious concerns among everyone -- even those among you who hate or fear Google.
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Filed Under: borders, censorship, france, free speech, internet, jurisdiction, right to be forgotten
Companies: google
Reader Comments
The First Word
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http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36370628
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Rattling the saber in one hand, holding the 'donations' box with the other
Several have been accused of using legal methods to minimise their tax bills.
In Google's case, its tax structure allows it to pay tax in the Republic of Ireland, even when sales appear to relate to the UK.
If the governments actually cared about companies pulling stunts like that they could simply close the loopholes in the tax code that allow large companies(Google or otherwise) to shift taxes to wherever it's cheapest, but given that would step on the toes of those that buy the politicians I don't imagine much will come of it except some of the large companies having to pay a little extra as 'compensation'. Can't upset the bosses after all.
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They're certainly much more afraid of what their own citizens will find out about their own governments than what their citizens will have censored by other governments.
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This issue becomes less abstract for Americans if a search engine is filtering American search results based on the dictates of French regulators. Such an action would be unacceptable.
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It goes further than that
There are things France (and others) do as a nation that would be criminal acts in the United States. For example, displaying Nazi symbols or denying the holocaust are illegal in many Western European nations, but are protected speech under US law.
This means that, in theory, someone could sue France in a US federal court for civil/constitutional rights violations. If French law can reach into other countries, then US law can reach into France.
But it goes even further still. Anything you can sue for and win under 42 USC 1983 is also a criminal act under 18 USC 241 & 242. Winning a civil lawsuit for rights violation generates enough probable cause for a grand jury indictment and extradition to stand trial on criminal charges.
I wonder how the President of France would feel about being unable to enter the US or any country we have an extradition treaty with under penalty of immediate arrest for a crime punishable by 10 years to life in prison?
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Re: It goes further than that
He'd probably laugh at the very idea, and rightly so.
"Remember a few years ago when you were kidnapping people by the hundreds (well, about 200) on EU soil, beating and sodomizing them for "capture shock", and torturing them? Remember when you successfully pressured Germany, Italy and Spain to drop charges against American agents and officials responsible?"
"Do you really want to want us to bring those charges back so that YOU can be extradited from any other country you visit? Do you really think that censoring Google searches will sound worse than... how did the MI5 agents who were present put it... "his genitals were sliced with a scalpel and other torture methods so extreme that waterboarding is very far down the list of things they did...?"
No, the US is not going to start extraditing EU leaders over Google searches.
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Re: Re: It goes further than that
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Re: Re: It goes further than that
Google has the option of not doing business in France. It can still run a French-language search engine and charge for advertising in other countries. But with no office or business in France itself, it would be beyond the reach of any French court decisions.
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Google, quit complaining and do something.
See how long it takes for the politicians to cave.
$100 says it won't take more than 48 hours.
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Re: Google, quit complaining and do something.
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So consider, which is worse? 1) A very brief restriction on a relatively few people (who could still bypass the restriction via TOR, VPN or similar means) to prevent similar stupid ideas from popping up all over the globe in what are supposed to be free nations, or 2) continued capitulation and appeasement while ‘working through the system’ and hoping this fire wont spread.
Google (and any other provider in a similar position) needs to demonstrate that they stand for internet freedom, and will not support or conduct business in nations whose policies are anathema to this principle.
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Re: Google, quit complaining and do something.
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Re: Google, quit complaining and do something.
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Re: Google, quit complaining and do something.
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Dear Google
Your position on not letting France censor the global internet is not acceptable.
I don't think you have thought this through. You don't seem to understand what this will lead to.
If this policy is allowed to stand, then it will set a precedent that no other countries can censor the internet.
Before long, no country will be allowed to censor the global internet.
Please reconsider
For the Censors!
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Re: Dear Google
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Re: Re: Dear Google
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Dear France
Please, please, for the love of God, please nationally invoke your nation's right to be forgotten!
The rest of us will thank you for it.
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Re: Dear France, nerd harder!
Germany tried to assist them with that a few times as I recall.
My expectation is this is likely state protectionism aimed at some local French search engine providers. They are making a childish argument, and anyone in their own I.T. department would tell them so. So either they are the children they appear to be, or this is some sort of bizarre gambit.
Really this can be sorted out quite quickly. Google can just take all of France out of their routing table for a day or two and watch half of France crash. The search engine is small potatoes at this point. The portable java they have out there, gmail, youtube etc. Frances economy would grind to a halt.
Maybe that is what they are pissed about. There is of course a solution... Hey France! Nerd harder!
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Re: Google, quit complaining and do something.
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France has just become the frontrunner....
Google is not the internet, but if it happens to Google, then it will happen to all others as well.
They are going to screw with what is basicly the history book of the world.... and they just don't care.
What I don't understand is why there aren't protests in the streets or why heads haven't rolled yet? This is the most insane, craptastic, unfathomable, unforgivable, mindnumbingly stupid decisions ANYONE written about on Techdirt has ever made!
Just the suggestion of something like this should prove to anyone that the person simply aren't fit for any job requiring descisionmaking and should be thrown out faster than you can say "monkeybrains".
Whether or not, you use or like the internet, the fact is that it is the oppotunity for us all to learn about everything and each other which I see as the best way we have for preventing wars and suffering.
It is the greatest library in the world, but without an index it is worthless.
That makes France's descision not only dangerous, but also incridibly evil.
I would be ashamed if that had come from someone in my country.
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I have a solution to your problem. Build your own version of the internet or build your own firewall.
Thanks,
Signed the rest of the free world.
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Re:
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To Google. From: AdolfH.
Also, it seems there are one or two or maybe more disheartening things about me -- please make them all go away.
After all, if you don't remember it and can't read about it, it didn't happen: right?
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Dear Google
Thank you.
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Right To Be Forgotten == 1984 Ministry Of Truth
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Re:
Isn't Google its own worst PR team? Well, that's what I thought, anyway..
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Au Revoir google.fr
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Block everything
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Re: Block everything
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Re: Re: Block everything
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A race to the bottom?
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France to Google...
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What it's REALLY about...
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Re:
Have a DMCA vote.
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Re:
But who cares? It is Google so all that matters is that they go down.
Oh wait... you didn't actually read what this was about? You just saw the word "Google" and everything went red? Almost like a bull doing some... what is the bull word for parroting?... lets just go with bullying.
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To webhost-- number the "anonymous cowards"?
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Re: To webhost-- number the "anonymous cowards"?
May I make a suggestation?!
Just rate the trolls.. Good Troll/ Bad Troll/ Great Troll.. Which is what we all aspire to be^
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Only Congress has strength to protect US free speech.
(#2) Only Congress has the power to stop this, by proclaiming that domestic free speech is a non-negotiable core value of our country, and giving the requisite six month notice that none our foreign trade agreements can prevent us from applying economic sanctions to uphold domestic free speech.
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Warning: All hate-mongers
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Again, what about the other search sites
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Re: Again, what about the other search sites
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