Now Germany Wants To Criminalize Fake News

from the this-is-a-bad-idea dept

Mon, Dec 19th 2016 8:23am — Mike Masnick

Oh boy. Ever since people started ridiculously blaming fake news on Facebook for the election outcome, we've pointed out that these calls will be used to justify censorship of opposing views -- and that's a very bad thing. We've already seen authoritarian countries with long histories of punishing and silencing dissent jump on the "fake news is a problem!" bandwagon to justify heavy handed censorship. Both China and Iran have pointed to "fake news" as a reason for new internet censorship plans.

But, of course, now the disease is spreading, and spreading quickly. Over in Germany, Chancellor Angela Merkel has now endorsed a proposal to criminalize publishing fake news. Let's repeat that: she's endorsing a plan to make it a criminal offense to publish "fake news."

Angela Merkel is as good as her word: the German chancellor is backing a new law that would ban fake news stories distributed via social media, according to German newspapers. The move comes amid growing concern that fake news on social media influenced the outcome of the U.S. presidential election, and could play a similar role in Germany’s own upcoming elections.

Politicians from Merkel’s conservative Christian Democratic Union are proposing a law that would require social media sites to immediately remove fake news stories and make the publishing of such articles a criminal offense. The CDU currently governs in coalition with the leftwing Social Democratic Party as well as its own sister party, the Bavarian Christian Social Union, giving the government an easy majority and making it very likely that the law will pass, perhaps with some revisions after parliamentary debate.

This is an out and out pro-censorship law which will be abused. And the really scary thing is that with all this hype about "fake news," it appears the general public in traditionally open democracies may cheer on this plan for government-mandated censorship. A new Pew Center study suggests the hype around fake news has tons of Americans believing it's a much bigger problem than it really is. But the really scary part is that, according to the survey, many believe that the government should be responsible for stopping fake news. In fact, more people would put a large part of the burden on the government than on internet companies or... (wait for it...) the public themselves:

If you can't see that, 45% of respondents say that "a great deal of responsibility" for "preventing completely made up news from gaining attention" should fall on "government, politicians and elected officials." 42% say the same thing for platforms and 43% apply that standard to the public themselves. Obviously, these numbers are pretty close, suggesting they could be seen as about equal -- but that's still ridiculous. The government should not be in the business of deciding what is "fake news." It would fundamentally upset one of the basic concepts of freedom of expression.

Again, none of this is to say that timelines flooded with blatantly hoax stories (again, the definition of "fake news" seems to morph with what one's beliefs are...) is a good thing. And it seems that approaches like the one that Facebook is now taking seem perfectly reasonable (providing more information, rather than blocking, and combining user feedback with expert fact checking to vet stories that deserve additional informational flags). But the idea that the government should take responsibility leads to ridiculous ideas like criminalizing "fake" news stories, which will only justify crackdowns like the ones in China and Iran even more.

As the Washington Post's always astute Margaret Sullivan notes, politicians are the last people who should be judging what is, and what is not, fake news -- since it allows them to tilt the scales on issues directly impacting their own jobs:

Government involvement is a seriously bad idea. It could put the question of what constitutes real news and what constitutes fake news in the hands of those who may be most affected by it.

Indeed, this seems to directly be the case with the plan to criminalize fake news in Germany. As the quote above noted, the reason it's even up for debate there is because of "concern" that fake news could impact the upcoming election. Totally false news that people fall for can certainly be annoying -- but (again) we're mostly talking about confirmation bias. People believing stories because it fits their existing worldview. It's not like they'd change their position magically if they didn't see the fake news stories. And, even if they did, that's no excuse for criminalizing fake news -- which is only going to create a massive headache, and put freedom of the press and freedom of expression at serious risk.

Though, it will be amusing when German officials try to charge The Onion with criminal offenses...

Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.

Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.

While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.

–The Techdirt Team

Filed Under: angela merkel, fake news, free speech, germany, social media
Companies: facebook

89 Comments

If you liked this post, you may also be interested in...

Reader Comments

Subscribe: RSS

View by: Time | Thread

NeghVar (profile), 19 Dec 2016 @ 8:29am

Satire
No more ridiculous satire to generate laughs
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 20 Dec 2016 @ 12:54am
  
  Re: Satire
  It seems like a rather modest proposal to me...
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
JustShutUpAndObey, 19 Dec 2016 @ 8:33am

Criminalizing the Onion
"Though, it will be amusing when German officials try to charge The Onion with criminal offenses..."

Don't joke. Politicians are a remarkably humorless bunch. The Onion is a definite target.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2016 @ 11:06am
  
  Re: Criminalizing the Onion
  The joke's on them
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 20 Dec 2016 @ 7:42am
  
  Re: Criminalizing the Onion
  mmmm.... caramelized onion...
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
TheResidentSkeptic (profile), 19 Dec 2016 @ 8:37am

Of course, this is just one way..
... others will be prosecuted for "fake news" - whereas when governments lie or publish mis/dis-information to their own people, that will be OK. After all, government propaganda would NEVER be used against its own subjects...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2016 @ 10:49am
  
  Re: Of course, this is just one way..
  That is actually a good point. Will the government sue the government?
  
  The problem is that information is unlimited and false information is used as an encouragement to commit terrorism.
  
  The solutions as we hear them today would either be to censor or to hire government funded propagandists. Neither of those are anywhere close to desirable.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2016 @ 11:14am
    
    Re: Re: Of course, this is just one way..
    "false information is used as an encouragement to commit terrorism"
    
    The main reason for the existence of "Fake News" is to generate income.
    
    One person's fake news is another persons real news.
    
    Depending upon one's definition(s), one particular news article could be both fake and real at the same time.
    
    Bottom line, and lets not mince words here, this is an attempt at state sanctioned censorship - plain and simple.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Anonymous Anonymous Coward (profile), 19 Dec 2016 @ 8:39am

Because reasons?
Is it that there are a plethora of empty prisons in Germany that need filling expeditiously?

Or is there a trend towards private commercial prisons in Germany that need filling expeditiously?

Or is it really that there is a worldwide trend toward authoritarianism whereby those in power have an unrelenting drive to remain in power and dictate to those not in power whatever their moral perceptions may be? When, internationally, those moral perceptions are different, will there be wars to impose one moral perception upon others?

Oh, wait...that is already happening. Why would anyone not on that imposing side wish to expand potential for the imposing side to win?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
CommerceIsntFreeSpeech, 19 Dec 2016 @ 8:41am

What freedom of press, it's Germany
The old grouch in me says,

It's Germany, they don't have the U.S constitution or bill of rights to abide by with it's freedom of press and for them the stakes are much higher as election are around the corner and they are taking preventative measures unlike in the U.S. that gives tax breaks to groups that claim they are educating the populace using fake information.

Let their experiment in quashing fake news commence.

If it works import it here in the U.S. cause what you're missing in this story Mike is that it's commerce and commerce can AND SHOULD be regulated.

Just saying, freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom to harm, we have hate crimes in the U.S. which block types of speech, perhaps add another category here in the U.S. called state sponsored foreign propaganda and block the crap out of it. Cause right now, so called freedom of speech is being used against the U.S. to great effect.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2016 @ 9:12am
  
  Re: What freedom of press, it's Germany
  
  we have hate crimes in the U.S. which block types of speech
  
  No, we don't. Hate speech is not a crime in the US. Directly inciting violence is a crime(e.g. shouting "beat the shit out of him" to a mob menacing someone). Making threats is a crime(e.g. telling someone "I'm going to catch you out one of these nights and beat your ass dead."). The perpetrator using the appropriate racial or sexual slurs for victim of a crime can be held up as proof it was a hate crime. But the speech itself is not crime.
  
  perhaps add another category here in the U.S. called state sponsored foreign propaganda and block the crap out of it.
  
  Fuck no. First of all, it would be a violation of the First Amendment. Second, it's a horrible idea because whoever was in power would label any inconvenient news they don't like to be foreign propaganda. Just like the democrats are currently busy claiming that Wikileaks publishing DNC emails is Russian propaganda.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2016 @ 9:46am
    
    Re: Re: What freedom of press, it's Germany
    When it was really leaked by Seth Rich who was killed once it was found out.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - Baron von Robber, 19 Dec 2016 @ 1:37pm
      
      Re: Re: Re: What freedom of press, it's Germany
      Indeed, he was on his way to Comet Ping Pong pizza to order a "sardine special with extra sauce" but his tracking device implanted into his chest by the greys, alerted the FBI, NSA and ASPCA. In a group hit squad made up of geriatric I-beam welders, they snuck up on poor Seth and took him out before he could testify before the U.N., Infowars and Oprah.
      
      They think we are fools but they'll soon learn when Der Drumpfins gets to the bottom of it.
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Machin Shin (profile), 19 Dec 2016 @ 9:23am
  
  Re: What freedom of press, it's Germany
  "Cause right now, so called freedom of speech is being used against the U.S. to great effect."
  
  Yeah man, just imagine how much better things would be if all that "fake news" that came from that weirdo Snowden guy could just be outlawed and deleted.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Izan, 19 Dec 2016 @ 9:33am
  
  Re: What freedom of press, it's Germany
  
  freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom to harm
  
  I agree! If it harms my feelings, beliefs or interests, it should be illegal!
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2016 @ 11:19am
  
  Re: What freedom of press, it's Germany
  "Cause right now, so called freedom of speech is being used against the U.S. to great effect."
  
  Not sure what you are referring to, perhaps a few real world examples would be in order here.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
cKarlGo (profile), 19 Dec 2016 @ 8:45am

It's fake...
Because it's not what I want to hear!

One can only wonder if Merkel actually understands that news that she doesn't want to be reported does not equate to "fake news?" Based on what I know about her, I'm guessing that the answer to this question is "NO!!!"
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
The Bad Anon, 19 Dec 2016 @ 8:46am

Why is it always the Germans who stomp the hardest and loudest on free speech issues?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Ninja (profile), 19 Dec 2016 @ 9:41am
  
  Re:
  Past experience.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Frozen Njal (profile), 20 Dec 2016 @ 6:11am
  
  Re:
  Natural authoritarian principles. Plus a lot of people have been spooked by terrorist issues, Brexit and Trump. It's like an illiberal-liberal over-reaction, kind of like an auto-immune disease:
  
  "Look, the alt-right thrives on fake news, let's criminalise it so we can criminalise them, because we'll never abuse it or hit unintended, harmless Onions with it..."
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Wendy Cockcroft, 30 Dec 2016 @ 5:39am
    
    Re: Re:
    Correct, but authoritarianism is everybody's problem. The extent to which it becomes a problem to individuals and groups depends on who's in charge at any given time.
    
    The alt-right is running the show now. Proof: neoliberalism run amuck; demonisation of vulnerable people as workshy scroungers or potential terrorists (depending on where they're from).
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Anonymous Hero, 19 Dec 2016 @ 9:02am

Fake news not the problem
The problem is not fake news. The problem is that people don't know that they shouldn't believe everything they read on the Internet.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2016 @ 9:21am
  
  Re: Fake news not the problem
  > people don't know that they shouldn't believe everything they read on the Internet.
  
  I think they know that. They just choose to believe whatever confirms what they want to believe.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Anonymous Hero, 19 Dec 2016 @ 10:14am
    
    Re: Re: Fake news not the problem
    I agree that confirmation bias is a significant issue here.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2016 @ 11:20am
      
      Re: Re: Re: Fake news not the problem
      Hey - that's what I thought ... I agree with you.
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Tin-Foil-Hat, 19 Dec 2016 @ 9:11am

Why is the first solution to criminalize it?
Why is the first proposed "solution" to a problem to criminalize it? People have been lying to each other throughout recorded history and probably before that. Not believing everything you read has been a thing for just as long. Unless it rises to criminal fraud wasting resources and putting yet another law in the books is just stupid.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2016 @ 1:55pm
  
  Re: Why is the first solution to criminalize it?
  Because the main tool of government is law. Just look at the video on YouTube of Obama laughing while asking how Trump was going to get Carrier to stay in the US. Then Trump, being a business man and deal maker, made it happen. He knows laws aren't the solution but the problem.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Baron von Robber, 19 Dec 2016 @ 2:01pm
    
    Re: Re: Why is the first solution to criminalize it?
    Of course, he bribed them to stay. Well not all of them, hundreds are still going to Mexico, but some hundreds are staying and some hundreds were never leaving (administration).
    
    He said abatement should never be done, but ignore that.
    
    Drumpf!
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2016 @ 2:26pm
      
      Re: Re: Re: Why is the first solution to criminalize it?
      Yes, tax breaks are something that has been going on for decades now, rightly or wrongly. But Obummer just stands idly and helplessly by doing nothing.
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
      - Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2016 @ 2:37pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Why is the first solution to criminalize it?
        Better to do wrong than do nothing? I think we know who you voted for.
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
        
        Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2016 @ 2:45pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why is the first solution to criminalize it?
        Wrong? I guess watching people get put out of work is a better alternative? One of the many reasons Hillary lost as she would be more of the same.
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
        
        Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2016 @ 3:38pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why is the first solution to criminalize it?
        > Wrong?
        
        According to your own words it is better to do wrong than nothing. Look up above if you've forgotten what you wrote already.
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
        
        Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2016 @ 3:56pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why is the first solution to criminalize it?
        I never said anyone should do wrong. It was stated that Trump said it shouldn't happen. But is it "wrong"? Wrong and not liking it is not the same thing. Please re-read what was written before asking others to do the same.
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
        
        Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2016 @ 5:32pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why is the first solution to criminalize it?
        Different people interpret what they read and hear in different ways, using slightly (or more) altered definitions of words, gestures and tones.
        
        You could have ten people in a room reading/listening to the same thing and afterwards you would get ten different summaries of what it was about.
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
        
        Anonymous Coward, 20 Dec 2016 @ 8:23am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why is the first solution to criminalize it?
        You praised what Trump did, whether it was done "rightly or wrongly". You do realize that we can all see that, don't you?
        
        (This is why I'm glad Techdirt doesn't allow people to go back and change their posted comments.)
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
        
        Anonymous Coward, 20 Dec 2016 @ 8:35am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why is the first solution to criminalize it?
        Yes, but I didn't say it was wrong and neither did the comment attributed to Trump. Reading comprehension is not your strong suit is it? Slow down and understand what is being said and don't be in such a hurry to reply.
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
        
        Anonymous Coward, 20 Dec 2016 @ 8:43am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why is the first solution to criminalize it?
        My statement on right out wrong was that I didn't know if a government should be doing it. But until someone can explain to me why it is wrong it is an available tool. A tool Obama doesn't understand.
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
        
        Anonymous Coward, 20 Dec 2016 @ 9:12am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why is the first solution to criminalize it?
        
        but I didn't say it was wrong
        
        No, you just said it didn't matter.
        
        Reading comprehension is not your strong suit is it?
        
        Try to understand why you may have heard that a lot before repeating it.
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
        
        Anonymous Coward, 20 Dec 2016 @ 12:02pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why is the first solution to criminalize it?
        No, you are trying to read into it something that isn't there. If that makes you feel better about Obama doing nothing and Trump saving jobs then so be it.
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Frozen Njal (profile), 20 Dec 2016 @ 6:15am
    
    Re: Re: Why is the first solution to criminalize it?
    Why is it everyone keeps politicising everything here when it's a studiously neutral article? You won, get over it and take responsibility for your upcoming sh*tstorm... ;)
    
    And since you mention it, apparently Trump never met a law he couldn't bend or ignore ;)
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - Anonymous Coward, 20 Dec 2016 @ 7:09am
      
      Re: Re: Re: Why is the first solution to criminalize it?
      It was brought up as an example of people only seeing things one way. A politicians only tool is law, a businessman tool is negotiations.
      
      I am quite interested to see what Trumps administrating will do. So far the only shit storm is being caused by angry liberals whose only took seems to be violence
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Pixelation, 19 Dec 2016 @ 9:11am

I hope this catches on here in the US.
I keep hearing the fake news that Trump was elected and hope someone gets prosecuted for it.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2016 @ 9:54am
  
  Re: I hope this catches on here in the US.
  It is all biased news slanted to benefit one side or the other. Read from multiple sources from each side of the aisle and do a bit of reasoning to figure out what they each are trying to get you to believe.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2016 @ 9:15am

It's about time.
Maybe now we can get rid of all those obviously fake stories about human activity damaging the environment or causing species extinction, smoking causing disease, Trump groping women and a host of other things the lefties have been claiming.
/s
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2016 @ 9:19am

Back in the US of A, can't imagine that anyone would have an issue with letting the new administration determine what is fake news or not ....

Shouldn't the MSM & Hollywood have some serious adult supervision from Republicans??? Can't see any problems with that

Here's hoping that the pesky Constitution gets in the way of the growing desire to let government help us interpret the news.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2016 @ 9:26am

But what do with the offenders?
Traditional prisons are expensive. Maybe they could come up with some kind of special camp to put such people in.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Ninja (profile), 19 Dec 2016 @ 9:39am
  
  Re: But what do with the offenders?
  Australia? *wink wink*
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Frozen Njal (profile), 20 Dec 2016 @ 6:17am
    
    Re: Re: But what do with the offenders?
    We tried that, and the lawsuits from the dingoes nearly bankrupted us...
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2016 @ 9:26am

Sooo...
When a politician lies, and fake news is the result of that lie? Does the politician go to jail?

If so... then this could be a good thing folks! ha ha ha haaa!!!!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Ninja (profile), 19 Dec 2016 @ 9:40am
  
  Re: Sooo...
  Drumpf doesn't approve your comment.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Machin Shin (profile), 19 Dec 2016 @ 9:28am

One thing I find hilarious about all this stuff though is how everyone is just scrambling to find something to blame for why Trump won the election. In all the scrambling though it seems very few people are willing to admit that maybe it was because people were sick of politics and Trump, while he might be a lot of things (most of them bad), he isn't a typical politician.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2016 @ 11:23am
  
  Re:
  " everyone is just scrambling to find something to blame for why Trump won the election"
  
  Everyone?
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Ninja (profile), 19 Dec 2016 @ 9:31am

Jesus Christ Germany, you have your recent past that should be screaming at you how bad this kind of law can be.

I joke we shouldn't underestimate human stupidity but it seems the joke is on me.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2016 @ 9:36am
  
  Re:
  
  Jesus Christ Germany, you have your recent past that should be screaming at you how bad this kind of law can be.
  
  That negative past is a figment of fake news.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2016 @ 9:31am

So, Germany wants to criminalize:

-rumors -The Onion and other satire -supermarket tabloids -yellow journalism -conspiracy theorists -state sponsored news (if it's a state they don't like) -exclusive scoops by minor outlets using anonymous sources -news that contradicts the government's official position on things.

Yeah, I can see why the government thinks it's a great idea.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2016 @ 9:46am

Just remember, this is what we can expect from a Trump presidency.

/s for anyone who didn't spot the mockery of the anti-Trumpers' hypocrisy. And I don't blame you if you didn't spot it, raging hypocrisy boners seem to be rapidly becoming a defining feature of the democratic party. "We have to act how we think Trump will in order to prevent Trump from acting like us!"
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Frozen Njal (profile), 20 Dec 2016 @ 6:18am
  
  Re:
  I remember an awful lot of that from the red side of the aisle during Obama's presidency.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Roger Strong (profile), 19 Dec 2016 @ 9:52am

Do the emissions test results for German diesel engines count a fake news?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2016 @ 10:20am
  
  Re:
  > Do the emissions test results for German diesel engines count a fake news?
  
  Only the bad ones. The others are obviously not fake.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2016 @ 9:56am

The story about fake news is the fake news
So far, no evidence has really been shown that Russians hacked the election or fake news influenced it. The hysteria over both is dangerous.

https://theintercept.com/2016/12/10/anonymous-leaks-to-the-washpost-about-the-cias-russia- beliefs-are-no-substitute-for-evidence/
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Baron von Robber, 19 Dec 2016 @ 11:57am
  
  Re: The story about fake news is the fake news
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fancy_Bear
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2016 @ 12:12pm
    
    Re: Re: The story about fake news is the fake news
    So they are thought to be responsible, with no evidence put forth. With the NSA having direct access to trans atlantic cables and compromised routers would have real evidence if there was any. There isn't any being .
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - Baron von Robber, 19 Dec 2016 @ 12:17pm
      
      Re: Re: Re: The story about fake news is the fake news
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - Baron von Robber, 19 Dec 2016 @ 12:19pm
      
      Re: Re: Re: The story about fake news is the fake news
      There is evidence...
      
      "Democratic National Committee (2016)[edit]
      Fancy Bear carried out spear phishing attacks on email addresses associated with the Democratic National Committee in the first quarter of 2016.[35] The malware used in the attack sent stolen data to the same servers that were used for the group's 2015 attack on the German parliament.[1] "
      
      dosvedanya, comrade
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
      - Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2016 @ 2:41pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: The story about fake news is the fake news
        You seem to be confusing the words "claim" and "evidence".
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
        
        Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2016 @ 3:38pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The story about fake news is the fake news
        Exactly. Claims by the DNC and NY Times are not evidence. If there was evidence it would be trotted out. But it hasn't been and won't be. Now that the electoral college has done its duty, the hack will move to the back burner of the news cycle.
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
        
        Baron von Robber, 20 Dec 2016 @ 6:28am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The story about fake news is the fake news
        Neither, Cloudstrike.
        
        https://www.crowdstrike.com/blog/who-is-fancy-bear/
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
        
        Anonymous Coward, 20 Dec 2016 @ 8:32am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The story about fake news is the fake news
        Oh, a claim from a company that stands to profit from it. I see.
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
        
        Baron von Robber, 20 Dec 2016 @ 9:41am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The story about fake news is the fake news
        Yep, a business! Drumpfkins would approve, so it must be true.
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
        
        Baron von Robber, 20 Dec 2016 @ 11:54am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The story about fake news is the fake news
        Oops almost forgot these biggly companies too.
        
        Mandiant: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/cyber-researchers-confirm-russian-government- hack-of-democratic-national-committee/2016/06/20/e7375bc0-3719-11e6-9ccd-d6005beac8b3_story.html
        Fide lis: http://www.computerworld.com/article/3086314/security/russian-hackers-were-behind-dnc-breach-says-fi delis-cybersecurity.html
        Dell SecureWorks: https://www.secureworks.com/research/threat-group-4127-targets-hillary-clinton-presidential-campaign
        Threatconnect: https://www.threatconnect.com/blog/guccifer-2-all-roads-lead-russia/
        FireEye: https://www.fireeye.com/blog/threat-research/2014/10/apt28-a-window-into-russias-cyber-espionage-ope rations.html
        Volexity: https://www.volexity.com/blog/2016/11/09/powerduke-post-election-spear-phishing-campaigns-targeting- think-tanks-and-ngos/
        http://usa.kaspersky.com/about-us/press-center/press-releases/2015/infamous-cyb er-espionage-group-sofacy-resurfaces-new-malicious-
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
        
        Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2016 @ 4:52pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The story about fake news is the fake news
        Liberal tears are delicious. Bitter, but delicious.
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
        
        Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2016 @ 5:35pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The story about fake news is the fake news
        I find this interesting ... such a rich environment for physiological profiling and analysis.
        
        Q: What is the color of the moon?
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
        
        Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2016 @ 6:15pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The story about fake news is the fake news
        I find it interesting that after all the protests, the only one to lose electoral votes was Hillary.
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
        
        Baron von Robber, 20 Dec 2016 @ 6:29am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The story about fake news is the fake news
        Republicans are the dumbest group of voters - Drumpf
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
John Cressman, 19 Dec 2016 @ 11:49am

Yah Fake News!
Ban fake news... burn some books... You Go Germany!

Seriously... how long until the MPAA deems Techdirt "fake news"?

"Fake News" if VERY often in the eye of the beholder. Whatever the establishment deems is "credible" news - through the control and cherry-picking of facts - becomes the "real" news... so everything else must be "fake" news.

It really is nothing more than a more grab by those in power to control what people see.

Look at Facebook. They will start deciding what is fake by checking it with far left partisan fact checkers, who have been proved wrong time and time again with ACTUAL facts.

It is abhorrent.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Baron von Robber, 19 Dec 2016 @ 12:07pm
  
  Re: Yah Fake News!
  There is such a thing as 'fake news'. NPR tracked down one owner, a liberal democrat, that has around a half dozen writers, to make money from ads at his fake sites.
  
  He tried writing to both liberals and conservatives, but only one side usually took the bait.
  
  "Coler says his writers have tried to write fake news for liberals — but they just never take the bait."
  
  http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2016/11/23/503146770/npr-finds-the-head-of-a-cov ert-fake-news-operation-in-the-suburbs
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2016 @ 1:25pm
  
  Re: Yah Fake News!
  It's not difficult to fact check. People that lie about events are spreading fake news.
  
  Techdirt will not have a problem, because while they do spin for Google and other tech corporations, they usually make sure to not include any blatant lies in the coverage.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2016 @ 5:37pm
    
    Re: Re: Yah Fake News!
    So, in your world - spin != lie ?
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2016 @ 11:53am

Breaking FAKE NEWS... Fake news stories of the impact of fake news have resulted in real results...
Fake news stories broadcasting the horrible impact of fake news stories have drowned out all the fake news stories that would normally be making the headlines in your daily papers and social media accounts...

This has resulted in the passing of laws to eliminate all forms of news, since nobody can seem to tell what's fake and what's real, we will just have to outlaw all news reporting.

Those rumors of the best way to respond to bad or fake speech with more speech, yeah, those didn't work so it's outright government sponsored censorship coming to a democracy near you any day now.

Just remember, any news that the government doesn't agree with is "fake news" and due to the new laws we just passed, the publishers of fake news will be hanged, electrocuted, and receive lethal injection, followed by being drawn and quartered for good measure. The entire "Fake news re-education process" will be published as a daily live feed, direct from Guantanamo Bay, in the new government news feed brought to you by AT&T (the only telecom company that survived the trump-telecom wars of 2024), Taco Bell, and the 3 sea shells (if you have to ask you are doing it wrong)...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2016 @ 1:19pm

Since Twitter and Facebook are in the United States, they are not subject to German laws.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Roger Strong (profile), 19 Dec 2016 @ 1:51pm
  
  Re:
  If they have an office or employees in Germany or do business there - say, selling advertising - then they're subject to German laws.
  
  Back in the 1990s the top executive of Compuserve's German subsidiary was arrested and convicted because CompuServe USA linked to Usenet, and thus made the German executive personally responsible for any child porn found on Usenet. (The verdict was overturned years later.)
  
  He was also convicted on further charges, in that the games "Doom", "Heretic" and "Wolfenstein 3D" were available on CompuServe forums and were harmful to children.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2016 @ 2:38pm

In a near future of the United States saying "9/11 was an inside job" will get people thrown in jail.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Roger Strong (profile), 19 Dec 2016 @ 3:01pm
  
  Re:
  Nah. At this point the claim's non-credibility too much of a joke to be taken seriously by the general population.
  
  Heck, the claim even served the Bush II administration. Those asking the more reasonable question of what warnings the White House ignored, could be grouped in and painted with the same brush as the holographic airplane ranters.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
ECA (profile), 19 Dec 2016 @ 3:22pm

wOULD LOVE IT..
Over many years its always been that FACTS get buried with BS or OPINIONS..
It would be NICE if it was STATED as opinion, BS, Satire, Anything that ISNT FACT..
Only for 1 real reason..to GET people to KNOW, that its BS..

I hate when Facts get buried by 100 times the SAME amount of BS..
AND it would REALLY shorten the NEWS..
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Anonymous Coward, 19 Dec 2016 @ 5:38pm

And now .. the pizagate guy is at it again.
This time it might get him in trouble.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Châu, 19 Dec 2016 @ 7:57pm

Underground
Law have punishments for censor news believe is fake but later discover is TRUE? Also WHO can decide which news story is true or fake? What process and evidence, how much evidence need for prove true? Theory and speculation about stuff become illegal? What if can't prove true or false?

I think governments' next step is punish share fake INFORMATION, not only news. Books from religions, fake or true?

News will go UNDERGROUND, governments can try ban what they want but not mean stuff will disappear.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
German govt., 20 Dec 2016 @ 11:59am

All those news about migrants raping German women... FAKE.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Marek, 24 Dec 2016 @ 7:20am

Truth
So they want to establish the Ministry of Truth?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
CalDep, 14 Nov 2017 @ 9:47am

Fake News
This is going to be very hard to monitor. The government can just throw someone in jail with this for making news that it doesn't want public and call it fake. I would be very careful with the writing on this law.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]