TSA Warns Against Evil Photographers Taking Pictures Of Planes
from the plane-spotting dept
william points us to a Gizmodo post highlighting a TSA poster that appears to be suggesting that people photographing airplanes at airports somehow have nefarious intentions:
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Filed Under: photographers, tsa
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it helps something
Sure it does. It helps the "security" industry.
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Re: Well I am a PRO
You call yourself a Photographer?
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Re: Well I am a PRO
You call yourself a Photographer?
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Re: Well I am a PRO
You call yourself a Photographer?
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This article is typical Techdirt: dripping with contempt for authority of all kinds. It's certainly not possible that a TSA agent would be mature enough to check into a reported incident, find nothing to be concerned about, and go about her business, right?
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No, we drip with contempt for anonymous cowards. Hi!
Of course it is possible. However, there are plenty of examples of TSA employees who have difficulty performing their existing jobs (e.g., refuse to do a pat-down search instead of a full-body scan of a pregnant woman). And, there are plenty of examples of authority figures who seem to forget that public photography is legal. Both of those problems can be solved with improved pay and training for TSA employees, police, etc., but I imagine you wouldn't want to pay for that.
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You are right there - it is not possible - the whole dynamics of low level security operatives is against doing anything but escalating every report to the next level up.
If you had read any specialist security blogs like Bruce Schneier's you would know that.
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It's not illegal to be stupid, unfortunately, but those people will never, in their lives, fly a plane, legally.
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That did not raise a red flag back then ... what makes you think these geniuses will be able to connect the dots in the next puzzle ?
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Someone taking pictures of something publicly visible is a huge step away from taking special courses to learn how to fly a jet with intent to cause harm.
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Even taking partial flight lessons shouldn't be a big deal. Nor should buying a flight simulator only to play crash a plane. If anyone wants to go down that road, we would have to start flagging all the players of violent video games as possible mass-murderers.
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Very true. And in a land where we believe you are innocent until PROVEN guilty, we accept the fact that there are risks with letting people do things like this that, while they could appear suspicious, are not harming anyone.
"This article is typical Techdirt: dripping with contempt for authority of all kinds. It's certainly not possible that a TSA agent would be mature enough to check into a reported incident, find nothing to be concerned about, and go about her business, right?"
Of course not, but since you didn't bother to read the poster shown here, you didn't realize that that is NOT what is being encouraged. The poster clearly tells them to call the police over something that is both simple and legal, namely someone taking pictures from an area they have every right to be in (outside the fence). You don't call the police on someone who hasn't done anything illegal.
That is what is wrong with this poster. You don't really care about that, though, since your post clearly demonstrates that your intent is to demean Techdirt, no matter how far you have to twist the facts to do so.
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Maturity
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If you're interested in the schematics of a common aircraft, you can see them here:
Common Aircraft Schematics
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So there is already a large group of people who like to sit around and photograph airplanes, and very few terrorists. With this policy you are just begging for false positives.
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Re: False Positives
Why do you think so many projects are classified, and so many many documents get classified?
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Or better yet, just don't let planes fly any more - they would be safer that way.
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Reminds me
It looked to me that a film student was doing some sort of documentary on the arrival of someone (he found) important. So he is there interviewing this guy as he walked from the international arrivals door to the baggage carousel. The camera was always point at the fellow face as the young guy asked him questions and the older fellow would give these long answers. I was walking about 5 feet behind them.
I noticed two TSA guys sitting on some chairs by one of the other carousels. One young and one old. I wish could accurately describe the look of sheer excitement on the young ones face as he jumped up was ready to charge this guy doing the interview. Just as he was about to step forward to 'keep us safe', the old fellow still sitting grabbed his arm and said something to him that made him sit down. That poor guy filming had no idea how close he came to being strip searched ;)
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Stop persecuting the English
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Fear
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What Kind Of State ...
A police state.
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I guess it's only a matter of time now before some guy goes on a vacation, takes a picture of the plane he flew on, and ends up spending the majority of his vacation time in jail.
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terrorists and airplanes
It's large gatherings of people, not flight itself that they are after.
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Don't be so quick to judge
An example of such behavior: While working very late on a server that had crashed I worked throughout the night. I would go outside the hangar to take a smoke break every couple hours. When I went out the front door a car I had never seen before suddenly backed up and drove off in a hurry. The driver looked frantic. I continued on just noting that it was odd.
This same car did the same thing multiple times that night, as soon as I appeared at the front door, the camera was thrown in the passenger seat and he peeled out.
The general gist of the poster is report behavior that may be suspicious (although that is subjective). How else can you convey that in a picture with a telephoto lense and a hood. ;)
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Re: Don't be so quick to judge
Wouldn't it be possible that he's trying to avoid getting caught doing a legal activity?
With the detain first, reason later attitude these days, regular, law abiding citizens are afraid of acting/looking suspicious. And while avoiding that, they look even MORE suspicious. There is no presumption of innocence. Everything everyone does is viewed as a threat FIRST.
Imagine what would happen, this car photographing the hanger, saw a worker comes out. If the worker reported him, probably a whole bunch of local police, FBI, TSA, airport security would come for him. Grab him and detain him first and question for many hours while looking up all his entire life since he's born.
Even if you are doing a legal activity, wouldn't you try to run/leave so the above doesn't happen? So basically we are making a suspicious person out of thin air.
Look what the terrorist has done. In a very twisted way, they totally have won and we are all living in constant fear.
Bonus: why does everyone assuming terrorists are idiots? If it were a REAL terrorist, they are not that stupid to come back multiple times on the same night after the first time you saw them. Even a moron knows that looks suspicious and that's what terrorists would definitely avoid.
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Perheps it's just because I live in Hong Kong, where there's lots of plane lovers taking plane photos all day.
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you see the picture, that should get your attention, that gate does not appear to be used by passengers, why is he there?, what business does he have there?? report it, many crimes can be avoided if you report something that isn't right
what is he really taking pictures of??
entry and egress from airfield?
door codes being punched in?
id's of people working out there?
coming and going of security?
times when they come and go??
basic surveillance, can be thwarted by people paying attention to something out of the ordinary and reporting it, you can save lives, but no, you want to whine and cry about this isn't illegal quit being big brother, authority is bad, really?
well? move to Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia if you want a great place to live then, apparently this country is just to totalitarian for you
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Hint: The terrorists win every time we sacrifice our rights for no good reason.
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- Why are you thinking different thoughts than the mainstream? Hmm? Thoughtcrime is a crime too!
- Why are you opposing to our great leaders? They have our best interests in mind, you know. We should NEVER say anything bad about them, anyone who does is a terrorist and should be put to death.
I shall stop here, as I get sick in my mouth from people like you.
That guy, you see in that picture, is standing on public space, taking pictures of something that happens IN PUBLIC.
The moment we are going to call that illegal, is the day we will have to blind ourselves, and should sear our eyes shut.
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If you don't like people opposing "the establishment", why don't you move to the People's republic of China or even North Korea. I hear everyone there LOVE their leaders, and would never dare say anything bad about them.
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Re: Terrorists will win
Give your head a shake and get a clue you jack-booted git!
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Re: AC#28
- If that "gate" isn't being used by passengers, why would I be there to see the dark hooded figure? (N.B. - I don't see latch or hinge in the corner, it may be that the resolution of the picture is insufficient to show any.)
- How many crimes can be avoided? Do you have a reference to a double-blind study? Did you mean "averted?"
- If I'm just passing by, why would someone who wishes to keep his/her activities clandestine be standing next to a well-traveled road?
- If it's not a well-traveled area, what business do I have there? Am I a terrorist?
- If I am a terrorist, and I turn in another terrorist conducting surveillance, is my cosmic slate then wiped clean?
- Do you want to go with me on my next job?
- Is the "gate" in the TSA picture entry/egress from the field? Even if it is, now that TSA has publicized that location, does it really matter if someone else has a picture of the same gate?
- Door codes visible from a distance as they are being punched in? Discoverable using an SLR? This is considered a security measure?
- Won't anyone think of the children? (You seem to have overlooked that one. You're welcome.)
- When did it become the general populace's responsibility to save lives? Don't we employ "professionals" to do that for us? Are we overpaying them? Should they be looking for legitimate, respectable employment instead?
- If it really is the general populace's individual responsibilitiy to save lives, doesn't that run directly counter to the New Testament admonition, "Greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." (KJV, John 15:13)? Would you deny those who might otherwise die the chance to express this greatest of loves? Are you a hater? Or do you (gasp!) not believe in the Bible?
- Do you really believe that basic surveillance can be thwarted? Do you really not comprehend that by the very definition of "public," basic surveillance CANNOT be thwarted in a public place?
- Where in the OP (or, indeed, where on Techdirt) is it stated that authority is bad? I can point to a multitude of references to the idea that MISUSE and ABUSE of authority is bad; can you point to one example to support your statement?
Security is one thing, security theater is quite another. This is theater, and not a particularly good example.
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you don't have a "right" to stand there and take photos
not theater to report something you don't think is right
so you have no problems if I stand in your neighborhood and take pictures of your house and all activity there???
call the cops on me and I scream your taking away my rights, go ahead
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Not illegal mate.
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There is a privacy issue there. I expect privacy in my own home. Not so much on an airport especially when they have body scanners that, basically, can be used to see me naked.
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Missin' Dudya
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Re: Missin' Dudya
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this is silly
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Taking pics at airport
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Re: Taking pics at airport
Yes, if someone can't take photos of airplanes at an airport, why should they be able to take videos of airplanes in the heart of New York City?
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One of my favorite photographs
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Re: One of my favorite photographs
and besides its easier to just get a job at the airport and get inside info...probably even from the TSA itself
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The REAL Threat
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Re: The REAL Threat
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Re: The REAL Threat
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Taking pictures in public all but illegal
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You all have it wrong...
It says "Don't let our planes get into the wrong hands."
The picture is of a TSA agent watching to make sure the plane doesn't get into the wrong hands. It's not a possible terrorist in the picture - the person in the picture is obviously keeping the terrorists away.
We should all be grateful that TSA agents are (or at least one is) willing to stand outside a fence, with no obvious entrance nearby, holding that most feared of antiterrorist weapons - a camera equipped with a telephoto lens.
I, for one, expect to sleep better tonight knowing the black hoodies of the TSA are standing on the wrong side of the fence, looking in.
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poker player
If it was the Unibomber, then we should worry, but everyone who has a hood isn't a criminal.
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Many things might not be illegal by itself, but if something seems strange, report it, that is the message. Is it illegal to leave a suitcase alone by itself? Last time I checked, luggage neglect has not risen to the level of crime, but if you are traveling and see a bag sitting all by itself, you may want to report it.
While on a NJ Transit train heading into NYC our train stopped just before Newark, as they sometimes do. It was about 7:15 on a rainy morning and I noticed a lone car in a parking lot sitting across 3 stops, the driver holding a video camera out of the window apparantly taking video of the stopped train. At first I thought nothing of it but then I started wondering why someone would hold a video camera out in the rain to take a picture of a stopped train. The fact that a Mosque was across the street didn't help my feelings.
Should something like that be reported? There was nothing illegal going on.
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Maybe the guy in the car was videotaping the stopped train, because he thought it was newsworthy (CNNs I-report anyone?)
Maybe he thought that the train was being hi-jacked, since there was a mosque nearby.
Should a stopped train be reported? There was nothing illegal going on, right?
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Related story about poster
~Mallary Tenore, The Poynter Institute
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comment
Let`s remember that neither the above article or the one attributed to GIZMODO have made mention of any attempt to verify origin of the image although the picture displayed here does link back to a flickr user.
I will say that if the image and it`s content are intended to demonstrate an example of activity that for one reason or another could appear to the casual observer to be different than what is generally thought of as commonplace, it does so rather well. If the message is that it`s better to report than to second guess, ok, all clear here.
Only don*t hold your breath waiting for my call. I seriously doubt this flyer will impact my own general lack of interest and enthusiasm for reporting on the often strange appearing activities of my fellow citizens even if they are photographers.
I mean we have all seen people doing God only knows what in public or for that matter private places.
No my reasons have nothing to do with patriotism or minding my own business. My reasoning is based purely on my own personal experience. That of having been on the opposite end of the should I report this dilemma. Yes, I have been, on occasion, one of those people out doing something someone felt was worthy of reporting. And it has happened a few times.
I am guilty, like many of you no doubt, of being an avid photographer. Yes I point my camera at almost anything. Repeat any-Thing, not any-Person.
So one time it happened while I was driving around a small US city aimlessly photographing publicly displayed flags and Christmas lights.
How could this be a problem?
I learned how just as I began to fill the tank at a local station. Up pulled a patrol car and the officer asked me what had I been doing recently near the downtown area. I explained and even offered my cameras LCD display of recent images as visual confirmation.
The officer explained that a town resident who has a security clearance and works for a defense contractor saw a guy in a vehicle messing with a camera and thought perhaps it was someone attempting to record details of his home, face, privacy, whoknowswhat etc.
Oh, ok. In all honesty I thought that was strange, but, whatever.
There have been other incidents. None that I consider a big deal.
And that brings me to the point I wish to make. If the occasional mistake is made, so what. In the scope of the big picture I am not really all that bothered in the rare instances when I have had brief contact from security/PD.
Is it ideal? No, of course not.
But on none of the occasions did the person investigating confront me with the presumption of something is wrong or evil attitude we all fear and hope to never come across. In every instance the exchanges cost mere moments of my time. Then I left. Free to continue on my way.
For those that think any query from authorities is a hassle, remember that many of those people doing the asking are tasked with doing more than enjoying freedom. In all probability it is their job is to protect and preserve.
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Here's how I'd look at it.
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