British Labels Propagandizing To Children

from the not-so-much-teaching-as-preaching dept

Tue, May 31st 2011 8:40am — Timothy Geigner

While the practice of the entertainment industry issuing propaganda to school children is certainly nothing new, every time I see it in practice I shiver involuntairly. But when I came across a story from the BBC regarding a British label actually coming in to talk directly with high school kids about the many evils of piracy, a couple of questions leapt to mind.

But give the label credit for bringing along toys for the kids to play with this time. They showed up with a bunch of their music-making equipment to let the kids have a go at producing their own tracks. But even in this there was an ulterior motive. They were hoping to show kids (KIDS!) how hard it is to actually make the music they listen to, which would then demonstrate all the many people that are involved in the process. Why?

"Paul Shedden, Head of Label at Shed Records, explained the project is about raising awareness of the 'unseen' faces in the industry who rely on music sales for their livelihoods. He said: 'A whole army of people work behind the scenes to bring you new, fresh music. Everything from the songwriters through to production, artists, engineers, radio pluggers, PR companies all those people need to get paid. Otherwise they can't continue doing the jobs they love and the music you love will stop coming out.'"

Okay, the first question here is the obvious one: how can the threat of disappearing music production be used when we see more music coming out than ever before? Want to guess whether the label reps bothered to mention that to the kids? In addition to that question, I wonder if they brought amongst their toys some of the amazing new technology that's come out which allows artists to do more of this work themselves, rather than rely on an "army" of other folks who "need" to get paid.

But beyond that is the real question which is at the heart of why I have a problem with this kind of thing. Why do we let corporate interests speak directly to our children about industry needs and policy? And why aren't there representatives from opposite sides of the debate alongside them?

Would we let McDonalds come in to speak directly to our children about how they consume food? Would we allow gun manufacturers to hold audience in the school auditorium for a quick Q&A on gun control laws without representatives from the opposite side of the debate? Maybe we could get Larry Flynt to come in and hold court at a Saint Mary's School For Girls assembly on what types of jobs are best suited for women?

Or maybe schools should educate and leave industry out of the process entirely. If I were a parent (which I'm not), I'd be more than a little itchy at the prospect of my kid's school bringing in corporations to teach our children.

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Filed Under: children, music, propaganda, uk

67 Comments

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Chronno S. Trigger (profile), 31 May 2011 @ 8:50am

arguments
The same arguments used to prop up the recording industry can be used in argument for McDonalds. All those people who work so hard to get what little McDonalds pays, what would happen to them if this "fit" craze keeps going? How many people will be out of a job? Won't someone think of the little guy flipping burgers.
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Dark Helmet (profile), 31 May 2011 @ 8:57am

Re: arguments
I agree. That's why it's so clear that Michelle Obama is the Antichrist and must be stopped....
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Call me Al, 31 May 2011 @ 9:05am

Copyrighted for sure
Having spent the day learning how to make music for themselves what are the chances some of the kids wondered if they could take their work home to share with their friends and family? And then what are the chances they were told no because the copyright stays with the label.
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Anonymous Coward, 31 May 2011 @ 9:10am

Re: Copyrighted for sure
Except they used the music industry's instruments and tools. Any music they brought home from that day would belong to the music industry and would lead to the confiscation of all music related equipment. If found that the student shared their music with friends and family they would be sued for $1.2 billion per offense.
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Anonymous Coward, 31 May 2011 @ 9:18am

From The Hypocritical-Douchebag-Department
"Would we let McDonalds come in to speak directly to our children about how they consume food? Would we allow gun manufacturers to hold audience in the school auditorium for a quick Q&A on gun control laws without representatives from the opposite side of the debate? Maybe we could get Larry Flynt to come in and hold court at a Saint Mary's School For Girls assembly on what types of jobs are best suited for women?
Or maybe schools should educate and leave industry out of the process entirely. If I were a parent (which I'm not), I'd be more than a little itchy at the prospect of my kid's school bringing in corporations to teach our children."

So now the decriers of censorship are advocating censorship? Maybe you should get off of your ass instead and create a educational program on the virtues of freeloading and piracy, Maybe instead of field trips to the zoo, the kids should go to a PETA rally and get ripped for wearing leather and eating chicken nuggets. Or perhaps you could arrange for a guest speaker from NAMBLA to talk to the eighth grade during the section on human sexuality. Great thoughts, keep it coming.
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Anonymous Coward, 31 May 2011 @ 9:19am

I have read innumerable piracy advocates say: "More education, not laws, are needed." Then when education is tried they say: "Stop educating! You have no right!"

Yawn.
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MrWilson, 31 May 2011 @ 9:19am

Re: Re: Copyrighted for sure
Maybe the new scheme to counter all the independent music out there is to go into schools and get the high schoolers who are of age to sign legal documents to sign lifetime contracts to work for the studios. That way, the studios can claim copyright on anything the kids might produce later in life. Brilliant! You can't steal music, but you can steal copyrights with a good lawyer!
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Anonymous Coward, 31 May 2011 @ 9:21am

Re: arguments
McDonalds causes obesity, diabetes, heart disease, and cancer.

The worst the music industry does is push artists with bad judgment into bad deals and sue people who rip off their stuff.

Oh yeah. Same thing.
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ltlw0lf (profile), 31 May 2011 @ 9:23am

Re: Re: Copyrighted for sure
Except they used the music industry's instruments and tools. Any music they brought home from that day would belong to the music industry and would lead to the confiscation of all music related equipment. If found that the student shared their music with friends and family they would be sued for $1.2 billion per offense.

At least the kids are getting a complete experience in what it takes to be a label-owned musician. We normally get upset when the labels propagandize by lying and not showing the whole picture in their rants, but it sounds like this label took it to heart and fixed their propaganda so that the kids realize the true value (or lack thereof) for joining their label.
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Anonymous Coward, 31 May 2011 @ 9:24am

Re: From The Hypocritical-Douchebag-Department
Censorship is wrong! Everyone has a voice that needs to be heard!!

Yadayadayadayada...
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Chronno S. Trigger (profile), 31 May 2011 @ 9:24am

Re: From The Hypocritical-Douchebag-Department
Keep the National Association of Marlon Brando Look Alikes out of you're insane babble.

If keeping lies and deceit out of our schools is censorship, then I'm for censorship in our schools (but only to keep lies and deceit out).
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Nathan F (profile), 31 May 2011 @ 9:25am

Re:
Aye, stop educating just one side of the argument. If they are going to bring in industry execs who go on about the evils of piracy then they also need to bring in a scholar or other legally trained person who can go over the very broad details about what covers fair use. Besides.. the industry execs can scream all they want about what constitutes piracy, but until it gets brought up in front of a judge and the judge says "bad form, infringment" the execs need to chill.
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D. Hope-Ross (profile), 31 May 2011 @ 9:25am

Re: From The Hypocritical-Douchebag-Department
"So now the decriers of censorship are advocating censorship?"

No, he was advocating a balanced event with both sides of the situation present.

You should really brush up on your reading comprehension.
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Ron, 31 May 2011 @ 9:27am

Re:
You are still a douche!

You keep forgetting, we don't care about your industry anymore. Move on already. Why can't you get that through your head? We dont want you or need you and we dont want our kids listening to your bullshit.
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Anonymous Coward, 31 May 2011 @ 9:30am

Re: Re: arguments
The difference is McDonalds is actively attempting to change their menu to stay relevant in the future.

The recording industry? Not so much.
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ltlw0lf (profile), 31 May 2011 @ 9:31am

Re:
I have read innumerable piracy advocates say: "More education, not laws, are needed." Then when education is tried they say: "Stop educating! You have no right!"

I hear read innumerable anonymous cowards say: "Mike and his website are all about piracy." But then when those who come here to honestly discuss the issues, the trolls come in here and say: "Mike and his website are all about piracy."

Yawn.

Innumerable piracy advocates, like anonymous cowards, exist of a large sample of people, each with differing goals and perspectives. Some may be pushing for more education, while others see that the industry is so corrupt and ignorant of the consequences of their laws and so greedy that they will say anything to keep the money flowing at all costs to come up with correct, accurate education of the issues.
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Chronno S. Trigger (profile), 31 May 2011 @ 9:31am

Re: Re: arguments
Let's see, McDonalds sells food to kids, the recording industry sues parents so they can't buy food for their kids.

Back to logic: McDonalds can cause obesity in the same way celery can kill you. If you only eat that one thing and keep shoving it down your throat even when you're not hungry, then it can kill you.

The recording industry has, and will continue to extort money from people who they have no proof of ever ripping off their stuff. They will continue to kill our rights just so they can have just a little more money.

Hay, at least with the McDonalds (and celery) you're choosing to live dangerously.
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Anonymous Coward, 31 May 2011 @ 9:32am

Re: From The Hypocritical-Douchebag-Department
"So now the decriers of censorship are advocating censorship?"

The ones advocating censorship here are IP maximists who only want one side of the issue presented to students while trying everything they can to censor criticisms.

I'm not necessarily against their side being presented, I'm against their side being the only side presented. That's not education, it's indoctrination.

and there is a difference between free speech that's individually propagated and opinions that are endorsed/encouraged by the school. I expect publicly funded schools to educate and not to indoctrinate children, and such an expectation is not an unreasonable one.

"Maybe you should get off of your ass instead and create a educational program on the virtues of freeloading and piracy,"

I'm sure there are many people who will be more than glad to discuss the other side of the issue if only given the opportunity. I can probably find people on this blog alone who would be willing to. The ones responsible for censorship are IP maximists.
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Anonymous Coward, 31 May 2011 @ 9:33am

Re: Re:
Remember how anti-drug propaganda fed to children doesn't work? Otherwise drug use would be down but it's either stayed flat or risen?
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rubberpants, 31 May 2011 @ 9:33am

Re: From The Hypocritical-Douchebag-Department
Choosing what to teach your children isn't censorship.
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Marcus Carab (profile), 31 May 2011 @ 9:33am

Re: From The Hypocritical-Douchebag-Department
School curriculums should not be shaped by private interests. I can tell from your comment that your brain is disorganized at best, but is this really so hard to understand?
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Marcus Carab (profile), 31 May 2011 @ 9:35am

Re:
Ah, I see the confusion. You seem to think that what the record labels are doing is "educating". It's not.
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drfinale (profile), 31 May 2011 @ 9:36am

Simpsons Did It
This reminds me of the episode of "The Simpsons" where Lisa becomes a vegetarian, so the school bring in the meat council to show a propaganda video, and serves tripe afterwards.
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Ima Fish (profile), 31 May 2011 @ 9:36am

Why is it that when the coal industry creates one-sided propaganda for school kids, there's a huge uproar and the coal industry apologizes and backs down.

But when the copyright industry does it, no one thinks twice. Well, we do. But the vast majority of people see no problem with it.
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Anonymous Coward, 31 May 2011 @ 9:36am

Re:
"I have read innumerable piracy advocates say: "More education, not laws, are needed.""

By education you mean indoctrination. We say more education, not indoctrination, is needed.

and we're not 'piracy' advocates.
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Josh in CharlotteNC (profile), 31 May 2011 @ 9:43am

Re: Re: arguments
McDonalds causes obesity, diabetes, heart disease, and cancer.

No argument on the first 3, though I think the evidence for cancer is equivocal. Interestingly though, McDs and other fast food places have been working to adapt to the changing market and offer additional choices that are more nutritious.

But still, brainwashing kids? Worse than all that combined.

Give me a choice, and I'd pick pretty much any disease that would impair my body over anything (disease or not) that would cause undue influence over my mind.
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PaulT (profile), 31 May 2011 @ 9:46am

Re: From The Hypocritical-Douchebag-Department
"So now the decriers of censorship are advocating censorship?"

Like many morons on this issue, you seem to confuse criticism of speech with censorship. You and your corporate masters are free to exercise your speech, as we are free to exercise our free speech to criticise it. That's the polar opposite of censorship, even if you find such criticism uncomfortable.

However, indoctrinating kids into false propaganda is both unworkable and not something you can defend. Look at how effective D.A.R.E. was to illustrate.

As for the rest of your moronic rant:

"Maybe you should get off of your ass instead and create a educational program on the virtues of freeloading and piracy"

Since I don't support it, no. There's a gulf between what idiots like you try to pretend I believe and what I actually believe. Listening to the truth might be uncomfortable, but until you choose to do that, you're destroying dialogue here.

"Maybe instead of field trips to the zoo, the kids should go to a PETA rally and get ripped for wearing leather and eating chicken nuggets"

You are now officially an idiot, incapable of debating anything.

"Great thoughts, keep it coming."

I won't even bother with your last point. If you think this is either valid debating technique or a valid argument, you are too far gone, and I feel sorry for you.
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Anonymous Coward, 31 May 2011 @ 9:50am

Re: Re: From The Hypocritical-Douchebag-Department
Or maybe you should...

"Would we let McDonalds come in to speak directly to our children about how they consume food?"

"Or maybe schools should educate and leave industry out of the process entirely."
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Anonymous Coward, 31 May 2011 @ 9:51am

I watched a commercial on TV yesterday. It had some rather good computer animations, a rather attractive female actress, and a distinguished sounding voice over guy. I'm sure the commercial cost a bundle to produce, what with the actors/actresses, the computer animators, the music licenses, the camera guy, the scriptwriters.

And here was the TV station just GIVING IT AWAY FOR FREE! Think of all those people WHO AREN'T GETTING PAID!!! I think SC Johnson should sue TV stations for just GIVING AWAY their expensive commercials.
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Anonymous Coward, 31 May 2011 @ 9:52am

Re: Re: From The Hypocritical-Douchebag-Department
"'m sure there are many people who will be more than glad to discuss the other side of the issue if only given the opportunity. I can probably find people on this blog alone who would be willing to. The ones responsible for censorship are IP maximists."

Talk's cheap. Go volunteer instead of sniveling about it.
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DV Henkel-Wallace (profile), 31 May 2011 @ 9:52am

Par for the course -- so fight fire with fire
Would we let McDonalds come in to speak directly to our children about how they consume food?
Actually, we already do. What we need is for indie musicians to come, play some music, and give a counter presentation. Of course, they're already busy!
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Anonymous Coward, 31 May 2011 @ 9:54am

It is called "BRAINWASHING".
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Transbot9, 31 May 2011 @ 9:55am

The after story
And then the kids went home and used the internet to figure out how they can do the same thing for cheap. In fact, this encourages them to pirate soundmixing software that they can't afford (or, y'know, some may actually download decent open source software).
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Anonymous Coward, 31 May 2011 @ 9:56am

If I were a parent (which I'm not), I'd be more than a little itchy at the prospect of my kid's school bringing in corporations to teach our children.

Thank god for small favors.
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Anonymous Coward, 31 May 2011 @ 9:57am

Re: Re:
You don't care about the industry except to freeload its content and don't want your kids to know that you're a scumbag. I get it.
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John Doe, 31 May 2011 @ 10:00am

What debate?
Would we allow gun manufacturers to hold audience in the school auditorium for a quick Q&A on gun control laws without representatives from the opposite side of the debate?

Gun ownership is a 2nd amendment right so there is no debate. But no, the NRA shouldn't be allowed in school just like most any other organization. But what if they were presenting a gun safety program.

Just a note though, when I was in high school, they gave the hunter safety course to the boys in gym class in our 10th grade year. I don't know if they still do that.
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Huph, 31 May 2011 @ 10:01am

This Has To Stop..
Okay, the first question here is the obvious one: how can the threat of disappearing music production be used when we see more music coming out than ever before?

Actual citation needed here. You've linked to another TD article, that links to another TD article, and when I finally do find the "study" or whatever is supposed to prove your point, it turns out that it's simply an essay about the topic, void of any statistical analysis or data.

Secondly, it's an essay written by Oberholzer-Gee/Strumpf. For those not keeping up, these are the Harvard professors who quite seriously suggested that piracy isn't all that bad because musicians might "work for free beer." The same duo who hides their data behind non-disclosure agreements while suggesting that rampant copying of information is beneficial for everyone else. (Oh, the irony!)
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Ron, 31 May 2011 @ 10:04am

Re: Re: Re:
There is lots of good stuff out there that did not go through you dickwads. I teach my kids to support business that does not screw anything that stands between it and its money. That would be you, dirtbag.
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Anonymous Coward, 31 May 2011 @ 10:08am

Re: Re: Re:
Your a damn idiot! Just give all your money to them and shut your mouth.
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The eejit (profile), 31 May 2011 @ 10:11am

Re: Re: Re: From The Hypocritical-Douchebag-Department
If talk is cheap, why invest millions in Congresscritters each and every year?
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The eejit (profile), 31 May 2011 @ 10:15am

Re:
When your 'education' is less honest than Fox News on a good day, I'd rather have no education at all.
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The eejit (profile), 31 May 2011 @ 10:17am

Re: This Has To Stop..
There's hypocrisy on both sides of the debate; that I have no qualms with. What I do take issue with, is letting private interests inform the debate in terms beneficial to them, and only them and their ilk, without counterargtuments.
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Mike Masnick (profile), 31 May 2011 @ 10:22am

Re: This Has To Stop..
it's an essay written by Oberholzer-Gee/Strumpf. For those not keeping up, these are the Harvard professors who quite seriously suggested that piracy isn't all that bad because musicians might "work for free beer."

Reading comprehension fail. Anyone who has read the Oberholzer-Gee/Strumpf paper knows that (a) it includes plenty of data to back up the much greater production of music today than ever before and (b) that your quote is *way* out of context. It is not suggesting, as you falsely imply, that infringement is okay because musicians get free beer. It points out that there are *all sorts of motivations* for people to make music.

We're happy to discuss things seriously, but misrepresenting stuff is not cool.
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Dark Helmet (profile), 31 May 2011 @ 10:23am

Re: From The Hypocritical-Douchebag-Department
"So now the decriers of censorship are advocating censorship?"

Whoa, you really don't know what censorship means, do you? I'm not suggesting we outlaw corporate speech, I'm suggesting we not invite industry into our educational system specifically to talk to them about policies related to their industry. That isn't educational....at ALL. And it has no place within our schools, no matter WHAT the issue....

"Maybe you should get off of your ass instead and create a educational program on the virtues of freeloading and piracy"

No thanks. Your idiotic mis-labels aside, advocacy groups from my side of the debate have no business being in schools either. Schools aren't there to advocate, but to educate. This isn't a war for the minds of the young, because there should BE no such war....

"Maybe instead of field trips to the zoo, the kids should go to a PETA rally and get ripped for wearing leather and eating chicken nuggets."

Uh...what???!!!

"Or perhaps you could arrange for a guest speaker from NAMBLA to talk to the eighth grade during the section on human sexuality."

Okay, seriously....did you just stroke out or something (heh, NAMBLA, stroke....get it?)
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Mike Masnick (profile), 31 May 2011 @ 10:25am

Re: From The Hypocritical-Douchebag-Department
So now the decriers of censorship are advocating censorship? Maybe you should get off of your ass instead and create a educational program on the virtues of freeloading and piracy,

Strawman. No one has argued "the virtues of freeloading and piracy." We're just arguing the problems of having private corporate interests write curricula that favors their interests. However, if you do want curricula explaining copyright, the public domain and fair use, we're aware of a few public interest groups that have created such things.

Maybe instead of field trips to the zoo, the kids should go to a PETA rally and get ripped for wearing leather and eating chicken nuggets. Or perhaps you could arrange for a guest speaker from NAMBLA to talk to the eighth grade during the section on human sexuality. Great thoughts, keep it coming

Wow. It takes some kind of cluelessness to interpret "don't let corporate interests try to brainwash kids" and turn that into "let NAMBLA talk to kids about human sexuality."

All you've done is convince everyone that you're an idiot.
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Mike Masnick (profile), 31 May 2011 @ 10:28am

Re:
I have read innumerable piracy advocates say: "More education, not laws, are needed." Then when education is tried they say: "Stop educating! You have no right!"

Did you really just admit that you don't understand the difference between education and corporate propaganda?

No wonder you don't sign your name. You'd be unemployable with logic skills like that.

In the meantime, when have we ever argued that "more education" is needed in response to infringement. We haven't. We've pointed out that the rush towards education campaigns have been shown to be a failure.

So, not only do you not understand basic English, but you have to make up stuff as well.
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Anonymous Coward, 31 May 2011 @ 10:41am

British labels would never be caught propagandizing to children as propaganda is a noun. At least in these fair isles. I'm not sure how the colonies work things though.

I look at the "more education, not laws" posit in the same light as the "more gun control" grandstanding whenever there is tragedy involving guns. We need less guns not more controls. So therefore we need less music to enable less pirating. BAN MUSIC. Then there would be 0 pirating.
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farooge (profile), 31 May 2011 @ 10:52am

Big freakin deal
Let them come to my kids school - I'd actually welcome it.

Keep saying things that make no sense and assume kids stupid, that's the way to get through to them it seems.

You give your spiel and we'll have a talk - but it'll probably be a lot of "Dad - you won't believe what these people were trying to sell us today!"

I'm sorry, but to me copyright (and patents) are morally indefensible (and repugnant) - that's the way I present it.

My kids directly know two people who have recording studios in their homes - and have seen the entire process from recording to mixing to 'pressing disks' (go ahead - tell them how awful you think it is - they can spot an opinion from a mile away)

They'd probably think trotting out all those people and saying they "need to be paid" was funny - just like when I had a field trip in 4th grade (I'm 39 now) to see the only business in town that used a "mainframe" and sparring with the (rather old) lady who 'ran' it. She insisted all the pins and cards and people (and noise) was necessary to print their forms and track their stuff. I tried to explain that I could write several small programs to do most of that for her in my spare time on my Commodore 64 - and if I could do that then those shiny new apple 2's (or whatever was out at the time ... PC Jr's maybe?) with a professional programmer doing the coding was exactly what she needed to be looking into.

I learned what an "incredulous look" was that day - and I picture her every time I hear the 'copyright' lobby babble.
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Jay (profile), 31 May 2011 @ 10:58am

Re: Re:
Just an honest question:

How much of this actually works? Are there any reports on this propaganda from 1, 5, or 10 years? There's serious money flying around for propaganda. I would think that all the industries involved would want to keep accurate notes on its effectiveness.
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Chronno S. Trigger (profile), 31 May 2011 @ 11:12am

Re: Re: Re:
Abstinence only, creationism, anti-drug they all failed due to high school kids having an overactive bullshit detector. I would lay odds that most of those kids smell what these people are shoveling before they walk in the door. This propaganda is no different. So, there probably is no affect at all.

This is in no way suggesting that it's OK to feed these kids bullshit even if it's ignored. If we continue to feed them this crap they'll start ignoring useful stuff like history. That's something that a lot of people need to start paying attention to.
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Anonymous Coward, 31 May 2011 @ 11:18am

Maybe we could get Larry Flynt to come in and hold court at a Saint Mary's School For Girls assembly on what types of jobs are best suited for women?

Yes. Yes, yes, oh lord please let this happen at every all girls school everywhere.
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Anonymous Coward, 31 May 2011 @ 11:22am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Actually, it could easily backfire. They could be teaching very young children that pirating is something that authority figures don't want you to do, which means it is something children will LOVE to do. If old people hate it, it must be fun and exciting.

I wish I could remember where I read that teen pregnancy rates went up after the abstinence only propaganda started. I'd really like to cite that one.
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Overcast (profile), 31 May 2011 @ 11:25am

hahah, this is funny.

I agree 100% with the above..

"They could be teaching very young children that pirating is something that authority figures don't want you to do, which means it is something children will LOVE to do. If old people hate it, it must be fun and exciting."

Couldn't be more right about that. You are so right about how well teen pregnancy rates.

And the music industry itself is a *SHINING EXAMPLE* of how 'anti-drug' propaganda works well....
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RadialSkid (profile), 31 May 2011 @ 11:37am

Re: Re: arguments
McDonalds causes obesity, diabetes, heart disease, and cancer.

No they don't. Overindulgence in the types of foods they sell can potentially lead to the first three of those, but it's more than possible to eat McDonald's food and not be at a higher risk for any of that.
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RadialSkid (profile), 31 May 2011 @ 11:45am

Re: Re: Re:
No one cares about your industry's laughably substandard content. Go away.
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D. Hope-Ross (profile), 31 May 2011 @ 11:49am

Re: Re: Re: From The Hypocritical-Douchebag-Department
Do you honestly think he implied that we should allow McDonalds into schools to teach about healthy eating?

I believe your last quote illustrates the entire point of his post. Advocates on both sides are too biased to speak intelligently and honestly about the subject at hand.
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Dark Helmet (profile), 31 May 2011 @ 11:51am

Re: Re: Re: Re: From The Hypocritical-Douchebag-Department
"I believe your last quote illustrates the entire point of his post. Advocates on both sides are too biased to speak intelligently and honestly about the subject at hand."

Holy Christ, thank you! I was beginning to think that I was somehow completely failing to illustrate my point in all this....
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chuck, 31 May 2011 @ 12:04pm

I will wager that at least one bright lad or lass pulled out their iPad and opened up Garage Band.
"But Mister, I can do all this with this"...
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Anonymous Coward, 31 May 2011 @ 12:10pm

Re: Re: From The Hypocritical-Douchebag-Department
I was convinced he was an idiot long before this post :)
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Anonymous Coward, 31 May 2011 @ 12:27pm

Would we allow gun manufacturers to hold audience in the school auditorium for a quick Q&A on gun control laws without representatives from the opposite side of the debate?

Actually the gun control types are well represented within the current curriculum's of public education, without any input at all from members hunting groups or advocates for the Second Amendment.

Remember where it says "The Right Of The People" in the bill of Rights applies to the individual. If it does not then the Forth amendment has no meaning.
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Marcus Carab (profile), 31 May 2011 @ 1:21pm

Re: Simpsons Did It
Just ask this Scientician!
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Marcus Carab (profile), 31 May 2011 @ 1:29pm

Re:
Hehe. In America, standard practice seems to be that whenever you need a verb, you just derive by adding "ize" to whatever noun you like - even if the noun itself was derived from a perfectly good verb already (i.e. "burglarize" instead of "burgle")
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Anonymous Coward, 31 May 2011 @ 5:07pm

Re: From The Hypocritical-Douchebag-Department
Or perhaps you could arrange for a guest speaker from NAMBLA to talk to the eighth grade

Or even worse, someone from the record industry.
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The Devil's Coachman (profile), 31 May 2011 @ 6:44pm

Re: Re: From The Hypocritical-Douchebag-Department
Yeah, but at least the industry rapes mostly artists of legal age! Mostly.
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Anonymous Coward, 31 May 2011 @ 6:47pm

Re: Re: Re: From The Hypocritical-Douchebag-Department
Yeah, but at least the industry rapes mostly artists of legal age! Mostly.

They've sued lots of kids.
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Chris in Utah (profile), 31 May 2011 @ 9:35pm

Just a thought but doesn't the school system as thus (ie public & college & the ever popular public college (double-think much?)) been doing this for years already?

Before we certified teachers we had experts in that field teach. It was called Master/Journeymen/Apprentice and it's still in action in other countries. We've just governnmentally monetized this system with an entity that thinks money into something equals profit and then we wonder why the only complaint from the top funded schools is "we need more money".

The MJA system still works and is seen more in other countries. I still wonder why we have a society so built on the double-think word it is, public schools, that we forgot what worked for us very well for every culture since the dawn of man.

My basic premise for this argument is what method is more sound. Having a system where at the age of 12 you can decide a trade then having the option to later decide to apprentice in a different path all leading to having at the very least skilled journeymen in an industry at the age of 18. Or (do your own google) have a system where the majority spend an average of forty thousand, compounded with interest, don't even know what the hell there major is going to be at 18 and 4-12 years down the road say oops and spend the rest of the meager existence paying off those loans and finally at 30+ actually finding a field there happy in. Nothing worse then a system that perpetuates wasting years of time, money and energy. /soap-box end.
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SomeGuy (profile), 1 Jun 2011 @ 3:58am

Re: arguments
I think it's interesting how they twist the scenario to get thier iontendec effect. There's a whole army of people out there working hard to bring you, Johnny, that shiny new album you like. They set it up as 500 of them to prodice something for the one of you. How can you not-pay them after they've done so much for you?

If you flip it around to more realistic numbers, though, you'll end up with 500 of them mass-producing and hawking an item to 500,000 or more of us, and now the question is "with a ratio of 1:100, how can it be these guys are failing so hard at getting paid"? And the answer is that your money isn't really going to them, it's going to line some executive's pockets. All those 500 people in the PR firm and recording studio are working on salary, and the artists and songwriters, the people you really care about, are being screwed by lopsided contracts.
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