EMI Exec Thinks You Shouldn't Be Able To Listen To Your Own Music Without Paying Again
from the no-wonder-they're-confused dept
Via Glyn Moody, we get this bizarre story, which demonstrates how some "new media" execs at the major labels don't seem to understand "new media." A few weeks back, Michael Robertson had revealed the ridiculous demands that the major labels were making on anyone who wanted to license content for a cloud music player. Most of the demands made absolutely no sense and represented an ignorance of the technology involved. Remember, these services are about people uploading music they already have so that they can listen to it elsewhere. It's not about sharing music at all. Yet the labels, in their ultimate paranoia, continue to insist it is. Wayne Borean posted a link to Robertson's story on the astroturfing "Balanced Copyright" page, that is a front for the major record labels. Jeff Thistle, who is the "Director of New Media" for EMI Canada responded (also mirrored here), saying that these demands were "all reasonable." When Borean challenged him on this, Thistle replied:What measures do you propose be put in place to prevent the uploading of major label owned content? I can't speak to the mechanism to determine what an annual fee would be (presumably it would be by percentage of catalogue * number of lockers that the content resides in), but asking that controls be put in place to prevent the service from becoming another illegal sharing vehicle is *very* reasonable.How does that make any sense at all? Why should anyone, who has a legal and authorized copy of major label content, be prevented from storing it online to listen to it remotely? And most of these digital lockers don't allow downloads and are only for the one user who uploaded their own music. The claim that these will become "another illegal sharing vehicle" is a total red herring. So they make up a red herring and pretend they're doing this to "protect" that which doesn't need protecting... when the reality is that they're just trying to force people to pay over and over and over again for music they already paid for.
Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.
While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.
–The Techdirt Team
Filed Under: jeff thistle, licenses, music, music lockers, streaming
Companies: emi
Reader Comments
Subscribe: RSS
View by: Time | Thread
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Forget the cloud!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Forget the cloud!
It will be a dystopian future ala Mad Max or Waterworld, where MP3s will be more valuable than gold!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Forget the cloud!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Forget the cloud!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Forget the cloud!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Forget the cloud!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Forget the cloud!
I've been saying SD (and then MicroSD) was the future for many years now.
It's become apparent, though, that this isn't the case.
Physical media is only promoted when there's large scale cooperative corporate support of the format (see: Compact Disc, DVD, Blue Ray, etc); There isn't any reason for major labels and distributors to buy into the format.
Furthermore, anything that exists as an additional layer between purchase and consumption is a step in the wrong direction at this point.
The cloud allows instant, high availability access to media; An SD card is just a slightly more streamlined Compact Disc, which isn't what we need to be exploring (especially considering that the vast majority of consumers don't have SD slots on their primary music players; small physical footprint doesn't solve the sorts of problems they care about, and as such won't lead to switching to a platform that DOES support SD).
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Forget the cloud!
Some device makers like to create anemic devices in this respect. That doesn't mean that there's no utility in local storage. Local storage doesn't suffer the problems of middle men trying to get in between you and your music.
There are many cool things I could do with an iPhone/Android. However, the new mobile usage caps make them pretty much all moot.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Forget the cloud!
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110516/02411614278/stupidity-you-must-be-criminal-copyright-t axes-sd-card-edition.shtml
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Tax the SD cards....
50� for each electronic memory card with 1 gigabyte of memory or less, $1.00 for each electronic memory card with more than one gigabyte of memory but less than 8 gigabytes of memory, and $3.00 for each electronic memory card with 8 gigabytes of memory or more
I guess even blank memory cards and blank CDs are potential pirate media. Maybe we should all just go back to listening to LIVE local bands. Oh wait... ASCAP would taxes that too.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Tax the SD cards....
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Tax the SD cards....
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Forget the cloud!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
That explains it
A friend of mine got an invite to Google Music and he uploaded his music but he said he couldn't find a way to download it. I hope people don't delete their music after they upload it or they will forever be married to Google Music. All this to try to prevent piracy, which hasn't been prevented or even slowed down but does greatly inconvenience paying customers.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: That explains it
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: That explains it
So I find Mike's statement that they don't allow downloads misleading, explicitly they don't, but implicitly - yes, they do.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: That explains it
With third party applications that have nothing to do with the streaming service? Yes, that is true. But as I just stated two sentences ago, you have to use another application that is not provided by the streaming service, and even then you are only recording the stream, just like the crappy audio cassette recordings of radio transmissions.
So, what about Mike's statement, instead of your own FUD, was misleading?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: That explains it
Whatever user interface they provide, it's a product that adds value to the service.
So no, their service allows dlding even if the product they supplied to let users access it doesn't.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: That explains it
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: That explains it
When looking at the service alone, aside what happens with the data on the computer - there's really no differece between streaming and downloading.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: That explains it
What is even simpler is to just torrent or file share the music/movie and not go through the hassle of snagging a streamed file that is probably being streamed at a lower quality than the original file. So my point stands, you don't slow down piracy, you only inconvenience paying customers.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: That explains it
> people will create other tools to
> use that to share files.
That's true.
On the other hand, if prices are reasonable, it is not worth the trouble. It's quick and easy to pay $0.99 on Amazon to download a DRM-free mp3 file.
Piracy will probably never completely disappear. But reasonable prices would significantly diminish it.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: That explains it
Once the initial recording costs are paid, there's very little overhead for selling digital files. I'm willing to pay for music, but not for Lady Gaga's costumes or massive advertising campaigns trying to get me to buy Beyonce's next album. It's also impractical considering the storage capacity of devices these days.
You can store over 40,000 songs and much more on many devices. Nobody's going to spend $40,000 on music downloads though.
The value to the consumer is different than the value to the companies. If I have 40,000 songs, I may not hear the song very often in my rotation, so it doesn't make sense to pay $1 for listening to the song 5 times. I also can't sell it used like I can with a CD, so why am I paying more per track than I would for a CD (for which I might spend $5 at most these days)?
The price of gas, teh suck that is the economy, and the lack of good jobs versus the amount of financial aid debt for college grads makes luxury purchases like over-priced $1 music tracks so unimportant right now.
Thank goodness for jamendo.com.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: That explains it
You sir, just plain get it. Music/movies/books are not worth the price being asked. Too much content, too little $$$ to go around. Nobody is going to spend the kind of money it would take to have a decent library of music, movies and books. Lower the price significantly and many more purchases will be made. It is all basic economics and if the government will stay out of it, the market will settle the issue in a few years.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: That explains it
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: That explains it
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: That explains it
It IS stuck in the cloud, unless you use the Android app, as ChronoTrigger has pointed out.. (Or you are doing something we haven't tried yet)
As for the files, /mnt/sdcard/Android/data/com.google.android.music/cache/music is the folder you are looking for.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: That explains it
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
We have already won.
"They got the guns but we got the numbers." Jim Morrison ("Five To One")
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Really. Indeed. Absolutely. Affirm.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Every car transaction requires that you provide the car maker a valid credit card or Paypal account (Paypal needs to pay me now for plugging their product). Your car automatically uploads your mileage daily (along with all of your location information to the government in case you commit a crime. If you are not a criminal, you should not mind.).
Thinking about the logic, holding ISPs accountable for what people do on the network is like holding the government responsible when someone commits a crime and uses a road to get to and from the crime scence.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
the last line is key.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
All Turing Machines great and small.
Most computing devices have nothing to do with big content. However, they are infinitely flexible. If Big Content is allowed to run amok, we run the risk of every business use of computing being burdened by whatever limits Big Content might want to impose on the fundemental flexibility of all computing devices no matter how large or small.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Oh please. You know damn well that the music was never paid for in the first place. Thieves, all of you!
/sarc
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Vinyl. Cassette. CD.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Playing Devil's advocate... sort of...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Playing Devil's advocate... sort of...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
The last time I checked, once money changes hands, the content on that disc is mine. If it's still theirs, why do I bother paying for it at all?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Yours?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Yours?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Yours?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Yours?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Exactly, DEF! I recently bought a movie - can't recall which one, but every 15 to 20 minutes this ugly, huge message splattered up my TV telling me how copying is stealing - it was annoying, invasive, distracting and totally ruined any "entertainment value" from the whole movie. I sat here thinking, "I paid to sit in my living room and be scolded for over 90 minutes - for something I didn't do???"
Won't buy another movie until/unless that nonsense stops. I'm finding out Wii is fun...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
stupid cloud
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: stupid cloud
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Stop feeding them
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
The sole difference between current music and that of the past is that time's gotten rid of some of the worse examples of former eras, leaving the classics. Not every song recorded in previous eras fitted the classic label.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
You are a damn idiot that should be strung up. It is the greedy bastards like yourself that is killing the market and driving people to pirate.
Join your friends at the Real Ignorant Asshats of America
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Drop
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
looking over them, most of their concerns are overblown, but i think that umg actually has a legitimate concern. personally, i have about 20 gigs of music on my hard drives. about two thirds of it was acquired pre-drm-free itunes, and not paid for. not wanting to start a debate on my right to possession, i will just say that i will not be using any cloud locker that examines my music to determine if it has a digital receipt, and i doubt if i am alone in this. i doubt if any such system is even possible (how long until digital signature is cracked?), or practical from a service providers perspective (turns them into copyright police, which they should fight tooth and nail).
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
I think the Netflix model is probably more reasonable for the rights holder & the consumer, only problem being is that we'd always need internet access.
To me 'streaming' is the answer - but you know... in music i honestly believe more people will want to 'buy' than 'rent'.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
For private use, I will copy whatever I want, period.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
End of an era?
And frankly, the upgrade from the analog record to the digital cd was actually adding value for me as a customer, so I was prepared to pay for the same music again.
But to me there is no 'upgrade' or added value between a digital copy I buy on iTunes and the digital copy I created when I ripped the cd and put it in my iTunes collection. So I am not as willing to pay for it again...
And just to be absolutely clear: I see no reason why I should pay the recording industry for an upload to a digital streaming service. The only added value here is the availability of the music, and if anyone should be paid for that, it would be the provider of that service. The recording industry had nothing to do with making that possible. On the contrary...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Some context would be appreciated
I don't mind participating in this conversation, but only if individual snippets of post aren't going to be taken out of context.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Some context would be appreciated
I don't mind participating in this conversation, but only if individual snippets of post aren't going to be taken out of context.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Demonizing what you don't understand.
Just because a consumer wants to have rights to another's intellectual property, does not entitle them to it. Just because you do not understand the laws and regulations, does not mean that they are instituted by "idiots" and "assholes".
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Demonizing what you don't understand.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Exec? Ha!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
How about now?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]