Apple Continues To Scream To The World How Competitive Samsung's Tablet Is By Getting It Banned In Australia
from the what-are-they-missing dept
Honestly, I'm at a loss to explain Apple's patent lawsuits against Samsung, which seem mainly targeted at the company's Galaxy Tab 10.1 product, which competes directly with the iPad. Having spent time with both devices, I can say that they're certainly competitive. The hardware is pretty similar, but Apple's software is still miles ahead on the tablet form-factor, though I'm sure Android will at least start to get better now that more tablets are on the market. But, really, all Apple has done with this lawsuit is to signal to the world (loudly) that hey, we're really freaking scared that Samsung has built a better product than we have.The latest in the worldwide legal fight is that Apple has convinced Australia to block the sale of the device in that country, while it reviews some of Apple's more ridiculous patent claims -- such as for "slide to unlock," "pinch-to-zoom," and... for the "edge bounce" feature that happens when you hit the "bottom" or "top" of a document. Seriously, Apple? Get over it. People copy design elements all the time. Apple has done it as well. And the end result is everyone works hard to make a great new product. Going after Samsung for making a quality competitor just looks petty. Go compete in the marketplace.
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Filed Under: australia, galaxy tab, ipad, patents, tablets
Companies: apple, samsung
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Pinch zoom sucks
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Re: Pinch zoom sucks
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Re: Re: Pinch zoom sucks
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Re: Pinch zoom sucks
On that note, I'm surprised Apple didn't sue the makers of Zombieland for using the term double-tap!
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Re: Re: Pinch zoom sucks
> sue the makers of Zombieland for using the
> term double-tap!
There's prior art and that prior art was originated by people who know how to use guns and explosives.
Disney backed down on trademarking Seal Team 6 too.
Angry Seal? A whole platoon of them? No thanks.
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Why do you want honest Americans to lose their jobs, just because their product is inferior?
Can't consumers just stop demanding more and more and, you know, just be happy with what they got for a change?
Is it so hard to just, you know, keep paying for the same old stuff?
Is it so hard to support the American honest hard-working single mom supporting peace loving patriotic CEOs that need that new yacht to be truly happy?
Is it?
And if it is, I must ask you, Mike, why are you Hitler?
Well, wich way is it, Mike? Are you with Apple, or are you Hitler?
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Re:
So Prisoner 201 are you for the people or for limiting the peoples choice.
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Wait, what?
Why, exactly, would that scare them?
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Re: Wait, what?
So Apple is certainly scared of somebody...
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Re: Re: Wait, what?
http://techcrunch.com/2011/08/03/iphone-android-profit/
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Re: Wait, what?
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Re: Wait, what?
Samsung is why I no longer own an iPhone and will be getting an Android tablet soon.
Every successful Android company takes that much momentum and mindshare away from Apple. Suddenly they don't look so magical anymore.
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This confirms what I have been saying for years.
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Re: This confirms what I have been saying for years.
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A former employer of mine once said: "A fish stinks from the head down." -that has stuck with me all my life.
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Response to: Anonymous Coward on Aug 3rd, 2011 @ 3:33am
I am in the industry, working on competition, so I watch Apple constantly.
If you watch Jobs public comments, you will notice he can be particularly rude to anyone or anything that competes with his "magical" devices.
I admit, they built Sheraton Eco-system around the product, which is why they do good, but they miss fundamentals that Android addresses.
I have a choice, in form factor, size, price, quality, etc. that you do not have with Apple.
I have a choice in how I interface with my device, while Apple forces you to use their itunes, like it or not.
See, Apple, from all current approached I see lately, is no longer trying to give the customer what they want, but instead is trying to tell the customer what they can buy.
Now that they see that the customer does not always agree with this, they are instead going after those who *gasp* give the customers a choice.
To me, it all stinks of technological tyranny.
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sorry for the typos
I admit, they built a great eco-system around the product*
Futher notes, please check how Jobs denounced flash player, then after Android announced and started putting flash player in their system, Apple suddenly changed it's stance.
Guess people still showed that they would rather buy what they wanted, not what they were told to get.
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Re: Response to: Anonymous Coward on Aug 3rd, 2011 @ 3:33am
Apple has flirted with that for quite a while now. I think the best statement of the Apple market was "you can have any color of turtleneck you want, as long as it's black."
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Re: Re: Response to: Anonymous Coward on Aug 3rd, 2011 @ 3:33am
*Disclaimer - Turtleneck is only compatible with the iWasher and iDryCleaners, failure to comply results in spontaneous combustion.
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Re: Re: Response to: Anonymous Coward on Aug 3rd, 2011 @ 3:33am
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Re: Response to: Anonymous Coward on Aug 3rd, 2011 @ 3:33am
There is no "current" to this way of doing things, it is how apple have always acted.
Just sometimes what they tell the customer they want is actually what customer wanted (knowingly or not) and apple profited greatly, especially if their competitors took a long time to catch up (decent looking desktops, portable music players, smart phones)
But, just as many times they get it really wrong (but never admit it or change direction) and even when they get it right their competitors have learned to catch up fast (large part due to Android).
No serious ipod competitor ever appeared
Took years for a serious iphone competitor to appear (and many now surpass it technically)
Only took about 6 months for multiple ipad competitors to appear and would say in about 6 more months many will be surpassing it
Apples undisputed "tech king" title that it has had for roughly the last 4 years is past it's peak and the only direction for it now is down
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Re:
> "A fish stinks from the head down."
That's cute, except it doesn't. A fish stinks all over, equally.
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Apple has stopped innovating
Its too bad Apple is stuck defending their stalled development and walled garden rather than continuing to innovate. It seems maybe they are out of ideas.
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Re: Apple has stopped innovating
/s
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Re: Re: Apple has stopped innovating
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Re: Apple has stopped innovating
http://www.google.com/imgres?q=new+apple+campus&hl=en&sa=X&rlz=1C1TSNH_enUS43 4US434&tbm=isch&prmd=ivnsm&tbnid=-vAs6VD3AMmHJM:&imgrefurl=http://venturebeat.com/20 11/06/08/steve-jobs-new-apple-campus/&docid=sve6CiyWaixPRM&w=601&h=325&ei=kCY6ToTLA8 ndiAKxr6C2Dg&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=1140&page=1&tbnh=78&tbnw=145&start=0& ;ndsp=15&ved=1t:429,r:5,s:0&tx=88&ty=43&biw=1024&bih=499
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Apple vs. Google
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Re: Apple vs. Google
Er... I'll admit I've not been following this that closely so no idea what patents are being contested, but how does Apple claim to have any kind of multi-touch patent in general or even specifically for pinch-zoom?
Surely things like Microsoft Surface pre-date iPhone and have the same functionality? Or is the patent system perhaps so broken as to allow that "doing exactly the same thing on a little device instead of a big one" is innovative enough to warrant a patent?
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Re: Re: Apple vs. Google
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Re: Apple vs. Google
Actually, it is not Apple Vs. Google, well, not directly.
I think Apple might be afraid of going after Google because they could potentially loose, as well as having Google retaliate (via removal of permissions to use their Google products, which Google also actively supports on Apple devices).
I think you need to get more familiar with the industry before you make a blanket statement about it.
Google created the OS, they are not selling anything.
Even their Nexus line, which is the official Google line, is created by other companies, marketed by other companies, sold by other companies, and maintained by other companies (HTC and Samsung for phone, Sony for TV).
And as for "Apple warning Google about introducing multitouch features in Android", I would like you to please show me where you got this information, because given that I actually work with Google in my company (I am in fact the primary point of contact between my company and Google, so know lots of juicy details), I watch any news that happens on these fronts, and I have not yet seen this particular warning.
Now, people, quit telling us about all the phones and tablets Google makes... It just makes you look silly (Didn't I hear this somewhere before???? They only make an Open Source OS, not a single phone or tablet...).
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Re: Re: Apple vs. Google
http://www.edibleapple.com/apple-asked-google-not-to-use-multi-touch-in-android/
and one year later:
http://techcrunch.com/2010/02/02/apple-google-multi-touch-android/
And unfortunately for Android, Google does lack the IP negotiation power Apple has.
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Re: Re: Re: Apple vs. Google
Now second, I never claimed they Google has more IP power, I said Apple is not going after them directly. That could very well change in the future. So this is still not Apple vs. Google, it is Apple vs. those who dare to use Android (not the one who makes it). Apples and oranges, not Apples and Googles.
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Mafia, er , Italian Americans v Apple
The entire Italian American community should rise up and demand that Apple stop using this racist term. Perhaps Johnny Cochran can file a class action lawsuit against Apple?
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Re: Mafia, er , Italian Americans v Apple
The "Italian-American" thing bothers me. Stick to gangster stereotypes, instead of ethnic ones. I know it was funny in your head, but there are some who are rightly sensitive to being lumped in with criminals and their supporters just because of where their parents were born.
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Remember...
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Re: Remember...
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Re: Apple has stopped innovating
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Now history repeats itself and the iPhone is being sunk by another open platform.
So what do the guy do?
Close everything and start doing the same crap that eroded Apple's market in the 80's again, but with gusto this time.
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This is going to turn very ugly
In the past, companies have asked the ITC to seize and destroy competitors' patent infringing products. Basically they are saying, "I want to destroy your business".
Now that Apple has actually pulled the trigger on getting a successful product banned in a developed country, expect the other shoe to drop.
Other competitors are not just going to sit back and do nothing.
They probably cannot "collude". But I'm sure they all know how they can act, in their own (eg, own shareholders') interest, to dog pile onto Apple.
I predict this is going to turn very ugly indeed.
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Re: This is going to turn very ugly
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Re: Re: This is going to turn very ugly
Its the same saying its ok that north korea just built a hundred more nukes because we build two hundred. Somebody eventually has to ask why we need to build any at all...
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Re: Re: Re: This is going to turn very ugly
HTC is being attacked by Apple. Furthermore as this article is about, Apple has gotten a competitor's Android device banned in an entire country. Possibly for years.
That's a nuclear strike. I don't expect HTC not to exploit its S3 patents to try to get all Mac's impounded and destroyed.
Obviously it would be best if all software patents went away. And I hope they do. I hope those patents that Apple/Microsoft/et.all just paid $4+ billion for go up in a puff of smoke.
But software patents now have to go away in multiple countries.
So until our mutual fantasy of a world without software patents happens, the patent arms race will continue. But it now an active live fire exchange. It will get ugly. The reasons why are clear. Offense calls for defense. Strike calls for counterstrike.
Oh, and I would also like world peace.
And a pony too please.
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Re: This is going to turn very ugly
The remnant of the surviving companies will crawl out of their bunkers like amoebas from the swamp. Patents will be reformed and/or peace treaties forged. They will start to divide & multiply. Eventually they will walk upright, use tools and discover fire. Finally, they will grow a brain and use it to create new things. A new age of civility will dawn and we will be in technological nirvana.
Nah, could never happen.
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Re: Re: This is going to turn very ugly
The best way to get rid of a bad law is to enforce it. Sad but true.
Let me tell you a story about 20 years ago. (I was then a devoted Mac developer.) Motorola and Intel were suing/countersuing over microprocessor technology patents (x86 vs 68000). I don't know who started it. Both parties had requested injunctions on sale of competitors product. The judge granted both! Guess what? The VERY NEXT BUSINESS DAY both parties had settled out of court. Imagine that!
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I do not think Apple is afraid
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For example, say I'm the inventor/CEO of Swype. Can I patent Swype's function of dragging your finger over a virtual keyboard as an alternate way of tap-typing? I would think not, although I could copyright the code (i.e. the specific implementation of that feature).
Assuming Samsung/HTC/Google didn't directly take the algorithms that Apple invented and copyrighted, couldn't they create their own implementation of pinch-to-zoom and slide-to-unlock? Or is Apple a special case?
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Re:
Few patents are actually implemented in the marketplace. The inventor may try and fail, or may never be able to actually get any production financed, or both inventor and the PTO may be wrong about the patentability of the invention.
Copyrights protect expressions. In the case of written expression, like the code, they protect that code and can often be stretched to cover other, substantially similar code. Modern copyrights also protect the expression from derivative works - works based even loosely on the protected expression. The expression may not live only in the code - it may also live in the "look and feel" of the software. It does not live in the functional elements, although companies have found success convincing courts to read that protection into the copyright law.
In the US, patents can protect novel, nonobvious business methods. That can allow the patents to protect ways of doing things. Also, a patent can protect a tablet computer with particular functionality, including the functionality to interpret particular signals or responds to particular inputs in a particular way. Patent maximalists would likely argue that such a patent is no different from a patent protecting a mousetrap that responds to tugs on the bait tray as a signal to close the trap.
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I believe you can patent gestures made with devices, or even just the human body.
Which is why when I search to verify this piece of information, I find a lot of posts about apple's gesture patents . . .
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Re: Re:
HP is trying to get a product (Web OS) into a crowded market against competitors (iOS/Android) who are way ahead, and a competitor who is way behind (Win Phone 7).
Wanna bet HP will get into this patent fight at some point?
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Miles ahead! really?
Most people assume this to be true, but it simply is not. Apple's 3rd party app base may be miles ahead of Android's, but their OS is arguably inferior to android--certainly not "miles ahead."
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Apple's not scared
After all, when you have more money than the government (Right Mike? :) ) you might as well use it to make sure you keep raking it in.
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Re: Apple's not scared
> and are using it to hinder competition as much
> as possible
Isn't that what made Microsoft evil?
Tactics and strategy may have been different, but that's only because Microsoft didn't have patent 'nuclear' weapons and had to use 'conventional' anti competitive weapons of the day.
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I've seen this behavior before...
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Re: I've seen this behavior before...
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Now put it this way, if you spent 10 years designing and spending billions in R&D like Apple did, would you defend it or let some idiot steal it from you and wath them steal everything you designed and worked for for all those years.
Now if any of you said let them steal my designs and let them use it as they wish. You are fools and lying to cover your irrational thinking.
See its so easy to spot a Apple hater or fanboy of different products, they make statements like this Rant blog with no understanding of the truth or reason behind the action.
And if you had been real interested, you would see that Apple is being sued more then they sue.
So that blows holes in all your Apple is evil theory.
This is the worst put together B.S. Blog I have ever read, Mike just shows how uneducated about the facts he is and how far he will go for a click bait Rant.
Mike, your a fool if you believe all that bull you wrote, and your a fool, Apple has already gotten the courts to see they had been violated, but no you won't report that will you.
Idiot.
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Of course you hate your would be kidnapper.
Apple isn't providing what people want. When others choose to, Apple responds with dirty tricks rather than improving their own product.
This is the exact opposite of liberty and a free market.
Apple should be free to do their own thing. Just don't force the rest of us to put up with their crap.
When I buy a Samsung product, it's for all of the reasons why it is quite unlike an Apple product.
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Re:
I love how you throw in ad hominem arguments to show your point, decrying "Apple Hater" or "Fanboy", then ending with labeling Mike an "idiot".
Goes far in making your point.
I'm not mad though, of course, I'm not Mike either.
I have spent enough time in this industry, working on tablet projects based around Android, that I know your arguments are a fallicy.
Fallacy 1: Innovation - Apple has not "innovated" anything, as almost everything they have done can be found in other, previous systems. The entire drag to move was implemented in almost any off page scrolling technique. Don't believe me? Look at any web browser, they use a "Bar" to drag the system. The difference is, as found in Windows Mobile, it doesn't work well, so the next step was to make the entire thing one big "bar", aka, drag the entire page, not just the smaller "bar". As an engineering background, this is not a novel idea, and has been used repeatedly. Just because I managed to get my piece of paper through the system first does not mean that I created the idea...
I could go through almost every "innovation" that you list and disprove any innovation Apple has done as coming from them. Even the PC.
Fallacy 2: That Apple has "unique" designs. The candy bar style phone has been around a lot longer then the iPhone. While some merits of Apple's suits do in fact seem to take on a "copying" concept, such as the round home button with the square in the middle, others seem more like "common sense" and less like "innovation". How else do you make a large screen phone seem sleek and sexy? A 4" flip phone, doubling the size to 8" and making it so awkward that it cannot even compete? Rounding it, squaring it? Maybe they should have patented some shapes instead. I have seen the comparisons, and while there are some things that can be pointed at between Samsung and Apple, and you can say "Yeah, they did copy that (Which might make sense to go to court over, but trust me, they are going for more then the "obvious"), some of those things just make obvious sense, and as debated over and over here on Techdirt, sense should not be patentable (Although it does appear that scarily, too many patents are being issued based on common sense instead of innovation) So, what happens? This companies broad patents are used to sue that company, which is defended by that companies broad patents, etc. In fact, I would say many of the companies in the current patent suits probably hold some broad patent that probably already covers what they are being sued for, and they are so broad in fact, that many end up overlapping.
Fallacy 3: Apple is being sued more then they sue. You claim it is because Apple is the "victim" in this? Most of the lawsuits have been filed as a retaliatory strike. If you trace out almost every date for patent suit in the current industry, you will find it as follows: Apple sues company x, so company x sues Apple. In fact, go back to these original suits, and you will find Apple was one of the first to start this. I would not say they are the only, but it is my impression that they are the catalyst (We can even go back to the original Apple Vs. Microsoft if you want to see how back this has gone on). Unfortunately, now it has spread, and it seems that this has created a wildfire that will not stop for a long time.
Fallacy 4: Apple has gotten the courts to see they are violated. Not completely accurate and non-opinionated there. While yes, they have won some judgments, they have at the same time lost some judgments. In fact, in some cases, the patents overlap to such an extent that they loose based on the very same patent they won, because the other side has a patent that covers overlapping ideas.
So, overall, you have failed to "win over" anyone with your somewhat misleading, and in some cases, quite false, arguments. So now, you understand why I say your idea is idiotic (Just in case you missed the point in this, I am not calling "you"an idiot, thus making an Ad hominem argument, but instead is telling you that your points are idiotic.).
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Why are these features patentable?
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Bunch O' Wimps.......
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Re: Bunch O' Wimps.......
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Re: Re: Bunch O' Wimps.......
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Re: Bunch O' Wimps.......
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Someday, you won't necessarily be restricted to Apple if you want iOS
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Re: Someday, you won't necessarily be restricted to Apple if you want iOS
Like the Macintosh before it, the hardware is bundled with the software. Or vice versa, however you want to look at it.
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Actions vs. Rhetoric
If Samsung were really that pathetic, then Apple would have no reason to try and destroy them. The whole issue would be moot. It would be pointless and a big waste of money.
Clearly they fear Samsung.
They fear Android in general. They have reason to. The tide has already turned against them.
Everyone that said "repeat of PCs" is being proven right.
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Re:
Please cite your source, because I believe you are full of piss and vinegar. And please, make sure it is not a "US only" study, because, although this is hard to believe, there is a whole world out there, and Apple is loosing the world, not just the US.
Here is one that would "dispute" your claim straight off:
http://www.engadget.com/2011/08/02/canalys-android-rules-the-smartphone-world-samsung-couldve- do/
http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/31/canalys-android-overtakes-symbian-as-worlds-best-selling-sma rt/
That is two right there from a single site that sort of shows you are full of piss and vinegar. So, want to go back to the "Apple has nothing to fear from Samsung" comment?
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Re: Re: Re:
The information, in some ways, is correct, because of Verizon offering iPhone.
I have already seen information on this about how people who were buying Android were doing so only because they refused to go to AT&T, and their carriers were not offering the Apple product.
I do not claim Apple is not a good system, nor that it is not a good and/or powerful product. I just hate Apple for other reasons (Restrictiveness, cost basis, patent trolling, etc.).
The one fact that was not addressed though was the very thing I specifically commented on: Please show me about the world, not the US. This is clearly US based. From what I have personally viewed living here in Taiwan, this information is false on a world wide application level. Many countries actually prefer Android over Apple, although some prefer Apple over Android. The reason this is important? The US is not the center of the world, and profits by companies may actually be higher for total sales outside the US then inside. Again, this is why I specifically pointed towards information on the iOS Vs. Android in a global perspective.
Please remember, there is something outside the fish bowl, and I am American proving that.
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Re: Re: Re: Re:
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Not blocking anything in Australia anyway!
http://delimiter.com.au/2011/08/02/apple-targeted-wrong-tablet-says-samsung/
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Bad Marketing
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