Why PROTECT IP/SOPA Is The Exact Wrong Approach To Dealing With Infringement Online
from the you're-getting-the-problem-backwards dept
As the various "battle lines" are supposedly being drawn between the entertainment industry and the tech industry in the fight over PROTECT IP/SOPA, it's worth pointing out that nothing is further from the truth. For decades, the tech industry has regularly supplied all sorts of useful new technologies to the content industry that has allowed them to make more money, while decreasing their costs of production, distribution and promotion. Of course, the problem is that every time the tech industry does so, the entertainment industry flips out and misinterprets efficiency as some evil form of "piracy." That's because, as an industry, the entertainment industry has always focused on keeping things inefficient and on making money in the complexity of inefficiency. Making things more efficient messes with that business model... even if it always (always!) opens up greater opportunity.The latest technological problem is the internet, which is, by default, the world's greatest copy machine. It's also a phenomenal tool for creation, promotion and distribution of works. It's also a fantastic tool for monetization... but not in the traditional ways.
The industry, of course, freaks out and declares that the problem is "piracy." And, let's be totally clear here: "piracy" is a problem for the legacy industries that it disrupts.
But what kind of problem?
The industry has interpreted it as a legal problem, or an enforcement problem. However, there's little evidence to support this assertion. In fact, there's a tremendous amount of empirical evidence that it's not an enforcement problem at all.
Instead, it appears to be a business model problem. The money being spent by fans continues to rise, not shrink. It's just that it's going to different places than it did in the past. That suggests a business problem for the legacy players who have had their businesses decimated. So, again, let's agree on a fundamental point: "piracy" is absolutely a problem for the legacy players. The money is still being spent, but it's a business problem in that the money is shifting to other venues.
Given this simple realization (piracy is a business problem, not a legal/enforcement problem), you can pretty quickly understand why SOPA/PROTECT IP is the exact wrong approach that will actually do more harm to the entertainment industry. That's because what the entertainment industry needs to adapt and change its business are the new platforms that make it easier for them to make money. As we've seen over and over again, the most successful (by far) "attack" against piracy is awesome new platforms that give customers what they want, such as Spotify and Netflix. Services like those have been shown, repeatedly, to be the single best way to cut down "piracy," because they offer something better, something more convenient and with better features.
Unfortunately, SOPA/PROTECT IP actually makes it much harder and much more expensive to develop the next generation of platforms that will help to solve the business problem the entertainment industry faces. The main "enforcement" mechanism in these bills is to put liability on third party service providers coming from the tech industry, undermining the safe harbors of the DMCA and the legal framework that has allowed tons of important internet platforms to evolve. It makes it so that next generation of Spotifys and Netflixes can't even get started. The liability and the risk is much higher. Rather than two guys in a garage coming up with the next great thing, they need two guys and a dozen lawyers. That makes the garage crowded. And expensive. And it means the venture capitalists, who fund innovation, will be a lot less likely to invest.
The end result of attacking a business problem as if it were a legal problem is that it leads to attacking the key thing that the entertainment industry needs to deal with the problem created by piracy. In other words, by misunderstanding the nature of the problem, the entertainment industry is (yet again) aiming the weapons that the tech industry has given them right at their own feet.
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Filed Under: business problem, innovation, legal problem, piracy, protect ip, sopa
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Comunication
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Seriously Mike, are you getting paid for this stuff? Can't you just condense it down to one a day overall whine instead of this endless peppering of poorly thought out logic and self-defining whining?
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"New platforms" aren't wanted when don't guarantee money.
A "platform" that removes their ability to control that is of course seen as enemy. -- Regardless that with VCRs the movie industry was able to put out its old stock again and made more money than ever, the FUTURE looks bleak, and more so if piracy is left unchecked.
And for what seems like the hundredth time, tell me the new "business model", Mike. Specifically, I'm considering making a movie for $100M, now tell me exactly how I'm assured of recovering "sunk (or fixed) costs", ESPECIALLY with regard to your not worrying about it being pirated.
MOVIES ARE BIG CAPITAL-INTENSIVE INDUSTRY, MUST HAVE GUARANTEE OF EXCLUSIVE ON DISTRIBUTION. Allowing just anyone to copy movies won't work.
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Problem seems to be that they want control of the medium, control of when the content will be available, the content AFTER it's in the people's possession and a large profit margin.
Provide what I want when I want it and at a reasonable cost, and I'll be back for more. Many more.
Make me jump through stupid hurdles and I'll just find a simple way of getting and using what I want.
Still, if the best and the brightest of the industry think this is the smartest way to serve their fans, wow, who am I to argue?
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Seriously Dwaine, are you getting paid for this stuff? Can't you just condense it down to one a day overall whine instead of this endless peppering of poorly thought out logic and self-defining whining?
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I think You Are Missing The Intent of the Content Industry
Historically, they have controlled the distribution and promotion of content. The Internet bypasses them. They need to gain control of the Internet content to make their business models work.
The plan is as simple as:
1. Lobby the government for draconian laws regarding content placement on the Internet.
2. Disrupt the Internet by using the laws created in step 1.
3. Once the disruption has occurred, lobby the government to require that content being placed on the Internet to be certified as not violating copyright. This will be the "fix" for the disruption of the Internet.
4. Change their business model to provide a fee for service to certify that content does not violate copyright. Liability passes to the certification firm. The major media companies exchange licenses for each other content, allowing them to protect themselves from liability. Setting the fees high locks out competitors and upstarts. The established players value their content equally so no real money changes hands. Upstarts and competitors (anyone outside their privileged group is a competitor) do not have their content valued at par so they have to pay a high licensing fee.
The large media companies are in the same position regarding content as they were before the Internet. They are not changing their business model. They are changing the Internet to match their business model
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Re: "New platforms" aren't wanted when don't guarantee money.
Who are you, and what have you done with out_of_the_blue?
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I'm Sure They Know
This doesn't seem like a stretch at all. Isn't it exactly what Big Media has been doing for decades? Since it's not really POSSIBLE to control digital media (DRM is quickly and easily broken), then you change the laws to punish people who just step around your limited offerings.
I'm not defending Big Content. I don't think it's ethically right that they can pay lobbyists to change laws that slow down technological and social progress; personally I think these corporations very much DO realize what they are doing; that none of this is from them not understanding the situation. They're just doing anything to protect their bottom line and don't care what happens to anyone else.
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Re: "New platforms" aren't wanted when don't guarantee money.
You contradict yourself here. The future looked bleak when the VCR was invented too and yet they found a way to profit greatly. It was even compared to the Boston strangler. So odds are, if they calm down and take a deep breath, they could find a way to make the internet pay as well.
now tell me exactly how I'm assured of recovering "sunk (or fixed) costs"
I bet everyone would like to be assured that their investment will payoff. When you figure out how to make that assurance, you let us know. In the mean time, lets look at facts. Expensive movies often tank even without piracy. After all, who pirates bad movies.
On the flip side, some cheap movies do extremely well. Look at the Blair Witch Project and the Paranormal Activity movies. The 3rd version out now cost $5 million to make and last I heard had made almost $100 million at the box office.
MOVIES ARE BIG CAPITAL-INTENSIVE INDUSTRY, MUST HAVE GUARANTEE OF EXCLUSIVE ON DISTRIBUTION
Citation please. As pointed out above, large investments are no guarantee to success while some small investments pay off handsomely.
And for what seems like the hundredth time, tell me the new "business model", Mike
I am sure Mike would be glad to work with the studios on a new business model if the price is right. After all, he gets paid to do that sort of thing. What, you didn't think he would give that away for free did you? ;)
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Re: I'm Sure They Know
Of course they do. I have always wondered why Mike gives them the benefit of the doubt. My guess is if he called them on the carpet, they would ignore him for sure. Where now, he leaves them a graceful exit so they can save face if and when they ever do look for alternatives.
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So, does that mean you acknowledge that some of them could work?
I'll admit that, if the RIAA/MPAA have taught us anything, they've taught us that the Internet doesn't have a monopoly on business models that don't pay the content creator a penny.
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Re: "New platforms" aren't wanted when don't guarantee money.
Why would you start from the position of needing to spend $100M on your movie?
MOVIES ARE BIG CAPITAL-INTENSIVE INDUSTRY, MUST HAVE GUARANTEE OF EXCLUSIVE ON DISTRIBUTION.
They have not had exclusive distribution for years. How do you explain the fact that they're still making movies?
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Re: "New platforms" aren't wanted when don't guarantee money.
I will agree that movies are big capital intensive creations, I write software for a living and although it isn't nearly on the same level, it does give me some insight. Years ago we stopped seeing pirates as people and more as a force of nature. You will never eliminate piracy just like you will never eliminate any crime. You can simply reduce it by using a bit of human psychology. In the software world this has been tried with varying degrees of success using intrusive DRM all the way to simple guilt.
For some of my consulting gigs, there is a direct correspondence to how often our software gets downloaded on TPB (for instance) and how many sales we experience.
Admittedly it's a little different for your industry (I'm assuming you work in the movie business). The difference is cultural, we have been sharing culture in the form of art, music, and performance for as long as culture has existed. To suddenly try and call it a moral and ethical crime is not going to work, you simply cannot fight hundreds of thousands of years of human nature.
My honest advice to you and others in your field is:
Understand that copyright is NOT a natural right, it is a contract between yourselves and society. We give you a TEMPORARY monopoly on distribution and you give back to the public domain. You have not been fulfilling your end of the bargain so please don't act surprised when society begins to lose respect for copyright.
Give the public what they want and stop trying to stifle the future. You had been living in a golden age for the last 80 years, you may have to do with less profits. Don't think of the present as a time of austerity, think of the past as a time of prosperity. Work with Netflix and give the public a low-cost alternative to piracy. Understand that you used to be able to charge an arm and a leg for entertainment, you cannot realistically expect that to continue in the light of technological advances.
I'd be happy to ramble on some more, but lunch fast approaches and I need some natural sunlight.
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Re: I'm Sure They Know
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Re: "New platforms" aren't wanted when don't guarantee money.
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Re: Re: "New platforms" aren't wanted when don't guarantee money.
You miss the point. There is no magical business model that guarantees success. You need to adapt or die.
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Re: "New platforms" aren't wanted when don't guarantee money.
And for the hundred and first time, there is no god-given right to make money off of every project. Perhaps in the future there will be no way to make money off of $100M movies. There is now no way to make money off of gold-handled, diamond-studded buggy whips. Should there have been a law protecting the gold-handled, diamond-studded buggy whip market?
The fact that it costs the big studios $100M to make a movie is largely a self-inflicted problem. Part of that massively inflated number comes from inefficiencies and inflated egos. A large part of that figure comes from the inflated accounting system used by the studios to make certain that movies never make money and therefore don't have to pay residuals. If I buy a $10 watch from myself and pay myself $1000, is it really fair to say I have a $1000 watch?
The $100M movie is a symptom of what happens when you have an artificial (that is, government-created) monopoly. The industry is fighting the free market system, and such artificial are always destined to fail eventually.
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Re: Re: "New platforms" aren't wanted when don't guarantee money.
And for the 102nd time, NOBODY EXPECTS IT.
What they expect is to be able to exercise some control on how their product is sold, how it is distributed, etc, at least for a reasonable amount of time. They have the expectation to HAVE A GO.
If you don't like the 100M movie, just don't watch it. The price charged does not grant you some miracle right to just take a copy and forget to pay for it.
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Is it just me?
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So Trollie, unless you have something useful to provide this "team" or suggestions for buisness models that take into account all parties involved and try to address both sides concerns; just shut the fuck up.
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Supply & Demand
Supply = Unlimited
Demand = Slightly more that it's always been.
Prices = Same as always if purchased through legit means, 0 if downloaded from the unlimited source accessable by anyone...
Solution: cut prices dramatically, and make easily available to all, middle man status = saved.
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There are models that will work in the long run. I just think that with all the piracy that is out there right now, it is very hard to make much of a case for any of them. If you can make 10,000 sales of a song on Itunes, but the song is pirated 50,000 times, are you not swimming against the current?
It's hard to define business models and figure out what really works when the competition is your own product for free right now without any restrictions or cost.
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Re: "New platforms" aren't wanted when don't guarantee money.
There isn't a guarantied way to recover the costs. Now before you go "Ah ha, I got you!" know this; there never was. There was always a risk of the movie failing.
There are ways to reduce that risk. Like making a good move, not spending an artificially inflated price for that movie, connecting with fans and building a community, and yes suing the fuck out of those who download.
I just think that the "suing the fuck out of those who may pay" and "remove rights of everyone, not just those who do you wrong" options are just as bad an idea as "give it away and pray" (you know, the way that Mike insists is a bad idea).
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Re: "New platforms" aren't wanted when don't guarantee money.
I think I'll make a $12 billion film and complain that I can't get that money back because of piracy.
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Re: Re: Re: "New platforms" aren't wanted when don't guarantee money.
That sentence should be taken out back and shot.
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What does the 50,000 have to do with anything? 10K sales is 10K sales, if you're focusing on the 50K, you're doing it wrong.
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Re: Supply & Demand
Prices for these movies are way out of line for what I (and many, many other people) feel they are worth. Studios don't want to hear that.
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Re: Re: Re: "New platforms" aren't wanted when don't guarantee money.
They lost control of distribution. It's sad to watch them suffer, but you know what? The alternatives have been excellent.
I can watch plenty of free shows on Youtube made by the ones that use YT to promote their works. Or I could find something new that fits in my taste. And I can do all that without this pedantic need to yell "piracy, piracy" at everyone as if the world is only filled with pirates and nothing else.
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Re: Comunication
Move along, same shit different day.
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Re: "New platforms" aren't wanted when don't guarantee money.
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60,000 people are "enjoying" the music, but all of that enjoyment comes at the cost of the musician, not at the cost of the consumer. Seems something is a little screwed up.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: "New platforms" aren't wanted when don't guarantee money.
It's not a tolerable situation, even if you love it.
Nobody is yelling "piracy piracy", they are only pointing to the obvious issue. Why can't you see it?
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Re: Re:
Here it is again:
"Oh look, another SOPA post.
Seriously Mike, are you getting paid for this stuff? Can't you just condense it down to one a day overall whine instead of this endless peppering of poorly thought out logic and self-defining whining?"
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If he had solved anything, none of us would be here discussing this right now.
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Re: Re: Re:
Second: it's not gone, it's hidden behind a link. Click on it and you can read it. I managed it. You're at least 75 times as smart as I am, I can tell by the condescending sneer. Surely you can figure out how to use that left mouse button after a few lessons.
Third: It's not Mike, you asshole. It's the rest of us assholes. You're so hard up to troll Mike that you're blaming him for others' actions just so you can find something to blame him for.
P.S. possessive its does not have an apostrophe. Just thought I'd throw that in.
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Here's the OP again, in his own words:
This post was just another of Masnick's idiot strawman claims... Move along, same shit different day.
Masnick has 14 years of no solutions. 14 years of failure.
Yeah, you're looking pretty censored.
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Re: "New platforms" aren't wanted when don't guarantee money.
Isn't that why you have 50 er I mean 70 years copyright to earn it back?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: "New platforms" aren't wanted when don't guarantee money.
Did you actually proofread what you've said?
they didn't lose control of distribution,--
is then followed by an assertion which ignores all discussion of piracy ever since the 70s took place.
Why did the mp3 become a standard? Because people want to copy files from their ipods.
Why did people make mix tapes? To share with their friends songs that were indicative of the times. You continue to assert that piracy is causing some type of damage, and yet the evidence is against you. So now, you maintain that it's against the law.
Well, the courts still maintain that time shifting is legal. Bittorrent is still a legal technology with many noninfringing uses and as shown before, it's caused more producers to spring up and become popular in various ways.
Finally this:
it erodes jobs and the tax base of the US.
Again, your evidence of this is lacking. All evidence points to piracy actually doing more for customers than enforcement. I understand why you don't see it, but it's pretty telling that every time anyone discusses it with you (and how to use it to your advantage), you pull the "piracy, piracy" card. Sad.
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Re: Re: "New platforms" aren't wanted when don't guarantee money.
Of course they want to get paid, Mike didn't leave that out. The entire point of the article is that historically everything the entertainment industry originally fought against actually helped them out and they are likely running down the same path of fighting their savior.
A grifter is a con artist or fraudster, which is decidedly different than copyright infringer.
And what exactly is wrong if someone else makes money off of your works so long as you are making money too?
And it's not a basic problem of the internet. The Internet may or may not have basic problems, but being able to profit off of other's work is not one of them.
At the time the VCR was invented, the movie industry did not have guaranteed profits, but it profited them anyway. The same was true with the player piano, MP3 players, copy machines, etc and et al. The platform isn't the problem for them, the problem they have is trying to figure out what the business model is.
And the future doesn't look bleak. WB just posted record profits and revenues. I don't call that bleak.
And why the heck is he asking for "the" business model. I've been reading this site for several years. I've seen lots of artists and films and musicians, and photographers and even bread stores figure out lots of different models. Some work better than others. Find one, or make your own, or find one and then tweak it, there are lots of options.
And that example is atrocious. OOTB, I want to make a $1 billion movie. Tell me, even if we assume no piracy, how am I supposed to be assured of recovering my sunk costs? It's ridiculous to assume you can be assured of recovering any sunk costs. And I'll show you with an even better example. Pretend I'm the CEO of Ford, tell me, how will I be assured of recovering sunk costs for creating a new car? You can't. But let's not get away from your analogy without ripping it up further. Why the heck are you worried about making a $100M movie? How about you work out the movie you want to make, figure out your budget, figure out your business model, and take into account in all of those your likelihood of making returns. With that knowledge, you can then decide whether or not you want to make your movie. Only an idiot decides he wants to make a movie that costs $100 million. All the non-idiots figure out plot, storyline, character development, etc, and take into account their budget and make accordingly.
Movies don't have to be big capital intensive industries. You just assume they do because they have been. Sounds like legacy thinking to me.
No other business has a guarantee of exclusive distribution once the product has left their hands. Why should Ford not be given that same guarantee? Should we make even more inefficient monopolies just so we reduce the risk to a few?
And how do you know allowing anyone to copy movies won't work? No one was stopped from copying Shakespeare's work, but he seemed to do OK for himself. Anyone could have copied Homer's Illiad, but he still went on to create the Odyssey. Anyone can copy xkcd, but I don't see Randall Munroe out on the streets.
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AC: Hello?
Gabe Newell: Hi, I'm Gabe of Valve, we've created Portal, Half Life, and we update servers for one of our most famous free products called Team Fortress 2. I used to work for Microsoft and decided to make my own digital platform for sales of video games outside of retail. Of course, being a new endeavor, it happened to be pretty damn successful in allowing people to make copies of the game. The thing is, we learned to constantly update our product so that piracy is not an issue. We also learned that lowering the price of games has allowed us a very lucrative market into Russia, known for piracy problems.
You see, piracy has never been a legal issue. It's a service issue. The easiest way to stop piracy is not by putting antipiracy technology to work. It’s by giving those people a service that’s better than what they’re receiving from the pirates.
One other thing we understood was price elasticity. Without making announcements, we varied the price of one of our products. We have Steam so we can watch user behavior in real time. That gives us a useful tool for making experiments which you can’t really do through a lot of other distribution mechanisms. What we saw was that pricing was perfectly elastic. In other words, our gross revenue would remain constant. We thought, hooray, we understand this really well. There’s no way to use price to increase or decrease the size of your business.
I hope this answers your questions in regards to piracy. Perhaps our friends in the movie industry could learn to make better products or smaller license fees to allow service globally could cut down on piracy so that more people can purchase movies and music worldwide along with our games. Thank you, and have a good day.
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Petition to Stop the E-Parasite Act
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So... shut your pie hole unless you have anything useful to say.
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-John F. Kennedy
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Re: Re: "New platforms" aren't wanted when don't guarantee money.
Pure gold.
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I will download it ten times again tomorrow, and every day, until your costs are so high that you end up penniless on the street!
In less than a year you will be millions in debt from the additional costs that my downloading creates.
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Make it so that only registered users can enable an option (maybe on by default) that after a certain amount of "report" button clicks, the comment gets hidden, but just for them.
Those who want to enjoy that awesome feature, must register. The anonymous cowards would see every message normally.
This would help in several ways:
-Provide incentive for registering (RoR! or Reason to Register)
-Only those with the option filter out messages (so no automatic "censorship", more like a mute button that's common in most chat systems)
-Trolls will shut up about censor, since they won't see themselves being filtered.
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Seriously Mike, are you getting paid for this stuff? Can't you just condense it down to one a day overall whine instead of this endless peppering of poorly thought out logic and self-defining whining?
The House Judiciary Committee hearing is next week (11/16) and the Hill is lousy with apologists, FUDpackers and several dozen shills on the Google payroll. The former two are nearly hysterical with angst. The Googlers kind of come off as carnival barkers desperately trying to lure in members to their shell game. Sadly for them not much traction. Google is generally held in low esteem to begin with and the apologists can't explain how defeating this bill will create jobs to anyone's satisfaction. The FUDpackers are being debunked on First Amendment, due process and "breaking the internet" often before they even take a meeting.
Masnick is spotlighting the STOP Act because no one reads the bullshit on the apologist's blogs. Masnick's blog apparently has some sort of baffling Jerry Springer-esque appeal so he's been tasked with shining a light on the STOP Act as Judiciary ramps up for the hearing.
Expect a three-a-day treatment of the STOP Act until the hearing. Then it's all over but the sniveling.
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You're kidding right? Why is someone entitled to make money from my creation?
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Re: Re: "New platforms" aren't wanted when don't guarantee money.
You're out of your mind. People won't wait a week to see a Fox show. Even if you pared the copyright increment down to ten years you're nuts if you think people would start respecting copyright and stop stealing
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Funny how, as far as we can see, Google hasn't had many laws go in its favor...
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The problem is not the "pirates", but the growing legion of dissatisfied customers like myself (who, as I've said before, bought on average of 100 CDs/cassettes a year from 1988 to 2001) who have increasingly turned to other venues. Yes, in some cases that has been "piracy", but in much larger numbers it is simply spending our money elsewhere (for myself it was eMusic for a number of years).
Spending large sums of money, that could be going into making actual paying customers want to buy your products, on overly broad, overly restrictive legislation and technologies (in an attempt to stop people who were never going to give you money in the first place)isn't going to bring our money back to their table. It's simply going to piss us off further to make us more determined than ever to spend our money elsewhere (I myself already spend a fair amount of effort to insure I never buy music from an RIAA artist or buy anything from Sony - as much as anyone can avoid buying something from Sony).
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: "New platforms" aren't wanted when don't guarantee money.
Unsurprisingly, only you, Masnick and your fellow Techdirtbags believe this. The people voting on the bill, for the most part, disagree. You guys can all get together for a good cry in a few weeks.
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Re: Re: "New platforms" aren't wanted when don't guarantee money.
Other countries movies- by-and-large- stink, and are commercial failures.
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Re: Comunication
Sorry, have to disagree. They understand quite well exactly what it is (many to many communication)..........
and are spending millions upon millions to change it into what they want it to be (one to many broadcasting).
THAT'S why our rights are threatened by PROTECTIP and SOPA.
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Re: Re: Supply & Demand
Prices for these movies are way out of line for what I (and many, many other people) feel they are worth. Studios don't want to hear that.
So don't fucking buy it. But don't use the price to justify stealing a copy either.
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If he had solved anything, none of us would be here discussing this right now.
Awwwwww.... the Techdirtbags like to censor comments that reveal their cult leader to be a fraud and poseur. Isn't that cute, it a nauseatingly sycophantic sort of way.
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Here it is again:
"Oh look, another SOPA post.
Seriously Mike, are you getting paid for this stuff? Can't you just condense it down to one a day overall whine instead of this endless peppering of poorly thought out logic and self-defining whining?"
Masnick's censorship actually has value. There have been a couple of occasions when the issue of censorship has come up and I am able to whip out my iPad and show how the biggest FUDpacker engages in actual censorship rather than the theoretical censorship he goes "Chicken Little" over. Makes for great theater and illustrates that opponents to the bill care only about the freedom of speech that may slow down their freeloading. Thanks Pudgy, keep up the good work.
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Second: it's not gone, it's hidden behind a link. Click on it and you can read it. I managed it. You're at least 75 times as smart as I am, I can tell by the condescending sneer. Surely you can figure out how to use that left mouse button after a few lessons.
Thanks. That pretty much makes the case for "disappearing" rogue sites from search engines and ISP's. You are right. In neither case is it truly gone, therefore no censorship. You're smarter than you look.
Third: It's not Mike, you asshole. It's the rest of us assholes. You're so hard up to troll Mike that you're blaming him for others' actions just so you can find something to blame him for.
Oh, it's the anti-censorship bootlickers rather than the anti-censorship Lord High Apologist? I really don't have time for such nuances when I show people how hypocritical anti-censorship "crusaders" like Masnick censor remarks that are critical.
P.S. possessive its does not have an apostrophe. Just thought I'd throw that in.
Maybe when the bill goes to mark-up you can volunteer to help the Committee with punctuation.
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Re: Re: Re: "New platforms" aren't wanted when don't guarantee money.
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Re: Re: I'm Sure They Know
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Lets look at the "piracy" numbers historically.
Lets see the spike everytime they get a new law passed.
Lets show the spike everytime they create a new delay or offer a new DRM that makes it "better for everyone" but is just another series of hoops paying customers have to jump through.
They do the same thing over and over, and the "problem" gets larger in response. They are committed to this idea that with just the right law, POOF no more piracy. They can not see that everytime they tweak the law or policies the people resist more.
They think that everyone will buy the same thing multiple times for each possible way they want to use the content, and are upset that the paying public do not feel that way.
Consumers do not want to buy multiple copies of an music track so that they are fully legit. They want to own the track and think there is nothing wrong with it being in their iTunes, iPod, CD Player, etc. They can only use the track in 1 place at 1 time, no matter how many times they create a new copy. They do not want to pay an extra tax to some society because they liked the hook of a song enough to make it a ringtone, they paid that tax when they purchased the track.
There is nothing wrong with wanting to be paid for what your selling, there is something wrong in using your money and influence to force the market to conform to a model you understand and need. When you make it a huge pain to bother with doing it "right" you encourage them to look for alternatives, your offering none... they find the other alternatives.
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If you characterize it as a battle, you're almost certain to lose.
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I used to enjoy reading the intelligent conversations here in the comments. Now, because of him, I usually don't even bother. I just read the articles on move on.
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Re: "New platforms" aren't wanted when don't guarantee money.
First of all: VHS tapes were NOT about "putting out its old stock again." There were also plenty of "direct-to-video" releases, for example. Also, the movie industry didn't just "make more money," VHS sales dwarfed all other forms of income for several studios.
And the VCR, according to the MPAA, was nothing other than a tool of piracy, and would signal the end of Hollywood movies.
Here's the thing: they were sort of right about the "piracy" part of it. Rarely, if ever, did people buy "playback only" VCR's. They wanted a device that, at heart, allowed them to record copyrighted content. You could simply rent out a VHS tape from a video store, and dub a copy; you could simply tape a show or movie off of TV (or cable) and build your own library of movies and TV shows.
So, they were right: the device allowed widespread piracy, and people did. Here's where they were wrong: while all this was happening, the same device allowed them to double their profits.
The lesson Hollywood should learn from VHS tapes, is that you can't have one without the other. Shutting down "pirate" technology also shuts down even the potential for profits.
And, by the way, if you think "the future looks bleak," then you haven't been paying attention. Internet piracy has been widespread since the late 1990's. Yet, the profits of the Hollywood studios have consistently increased in that time period.
Specifically, I'm considering making a movie for $100M, now tell me exactly how I'm assured of recovering "sunk (or fixed) costs", ESPECIALLY with regard to your not worrying about it being pirated.
If you're a Hollywood studio, you set up "shell companies" that actually fund the movie, then cook the books so that they never get a return on their investment. (For example, did you know that according to the accounting department, Star Wars never made money?)
In any case, there are plenty of things that cannot be pirated on the internet. Theater screenings (including 3D), licensing deals, merchandise, etc. These sources of income are significant, especially when you're talking about a $100M movie, and one of these revenue streams alone can pay back the sunk costs (and likely a whole lot more).
On the other hand, every single dollar spent fighting piracy is a lost dollar. "Not worrying about it being pirated" is probably the best economic decision you can make.
An even better decision is to offer exactly what the "pirates" offer, except more conveniently, for a small price. Look at Netflix, which is now earning $700 million per year in revenue. In the games world, look at Steam, which made almost a billion dollars last year - and had the side effect of curbing piracy in Russia.
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Re: Re: Re: Supply & Demand
He never said anything about pirating a copy. That's just you, automatically assuming everyone who doesn't like the price is a pirate.
In any case, he didn't buy it. Neither did I.
And I did not pirate it, either (I haven't even seen it). Now, just for the sake of argument, let's say that he did.
In terms of lost profits, what is the difference between him and me?
Absolutely nothing.
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Re: "New platforms" aren't wanted when don't guarantee money.
You're kidding right? Why should you be entitled to have anyone do your job for you?
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Except that the comments are not disabled, or unavailable, or in any way blocked; you simply need to click a link to see them again, uncensored, in exactly the same location.
The seized sites, on the other hand, have been removed from that URL altogether. You can't simply click a link to "show" the original site. And, if SOPA passes, then circumventing that censorship - such as, say, using the MAFIAAFire plugin - would itself be unlawful.
Plus, even if you do honestly believe community flagging of comments is censorship (which, let's face it, you don't), then the flagging system for these comments is used voluntarily by Techdirt, and doesn't affect other sites. Federal laws affect everyone. It would be like the government telling all websites, everywhere, that they had to flag comments.
It is not the same thing at all. Not even close. It's laughably disingenuous to even claim that it is.
On the plus side, using these tactics must mean that you're desperate. That can only be a good thing.
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Re: Re:
The reason the Hill is "lousy" with consumer rights and technology groups is because everyone knows just how utterly horrible SOPA is.
Seriously, nobody wants this bill to pass. Venture capitalists are against it. Legal professionals are against it. Technology industries are against it. Even artists are against it.
And, most importantly of all, the American public is against it.
So, it's good that people are fighting the bill. Somebody needs to.
By the way, thanks for dropping the pretense that you're anything but a Beltway insider who comes on this site simply to discredit it.
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"And, most importantly of all, the American public is against it."
I am sure that anyone who has been gorging themselves at the buffet of stolen, purloined, or illegally reused content will be upset to find out that the free lunch which has extend itself into a free tea time as well might actually come to an end, or at least have fewer dishes on the menu. Like anything of this nature, some of the public will be upset. However, it is a fairly big error to suggest that all of the public is against it, because that is just not the case.
The people fighting the bill appear to be very disorganized, and unable to put forth any really good arguments beyond "if you make us stop using other people's content without permission, we might have to get rid of a few jobs". It's hard to imagine that having much sway when you consider how much has been lost on the content creation side in the last 10 years.
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Further, I suspect that if more people worked like Valve, over time people would find the way to extract the value without paying for it, and as a result counterfeit that business model as well, rendering it moot.
Piracy is always an issue, they just don't worry about it because it isn't hurting their business YET.
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Re: Re: Re: "New platforms" aren't wanted when don't guarantee money.
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Or keep it to yourself.
But you can't afford to not take all the money that is rolling in, can you?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: "New platforms" aren't wanted when don't guarantee money.
I hope you aren't using MS at work.
I hope you don't work inside any kind of shelter other than the one you made yourself.
I hope you don't need a car to get work or to get to work, unless you designed and built it yourself.
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Not getting it...
"Blind eye" to piracy and adapting - $2 - $4 billion in profits
Fighting piracy with DRM Schemes - $73.9 million in losses
Care to expand on your faith based economics, chief?
Further, I suspect that if more people worked like Valve, over time people would find the way to extract the value without paying for it, and as a result counterfeit that business model as well, rendering it moot.
I would hope so, because Valve likes competition. Consumers gain the profit from it. We would have more dedicated servers, more games for free, more sales every day, and less DRM. The other competition is Origin. Which adds NO value to its service and scans your hardware all of the time.
Piracy is always an issue, they just don't worry about it because it isn't hurting their business YET
You don't get it. Look at the word "Successful" that is highlighted in blue and click the link. The ENTIRE part about Russia is in that link. Russia? Which is dominated by piracy? Which you seem hell bent on saying won't buy a product ever?
Newell: That’s in dollars, yes. Whenever I talk about how much money we make it’s always dollar-denominated. All of our products are sold in local currency. But the point was, the people who are telling you that Russians pirate everything are the people who wait six months to localize their product into Russia. … So that, as far as we’re concerned, is asked and answered. It doesn’t take much in terms of providing a better service to make pirates a non-issue.
It's a service issue. When the movie industry provides a better service, it makes the money. Gabe's company is living proof of that example in the gaming industry. And here you are saying "the pirates are going to extract value". Gabe's entire process in multiple interviews is asking "how do I add value to my service?"
That's what his company is doing much better than anyone else. Competing with piracy. Here's the blueprint. It's really not that hard.
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This comment has been flagged by the community. Click to show it.
Incidentally, the same line says the comment was flagged by the community, not by Mike. And incidentally, I'm part of this community and unlike Mike I do promote illicit file sharing because I do not agree with the current system. In common with Mike I do buy original content though (even though morally I shouldn't buy anything but I still have hopes that MAFIAA will learn).
As you see, I don't agree with Mike and his righteous stance of not agreeing with online piracy (as in file sharing) but I agree with his concerns on this law and that we need a fair and comprehensive copyright law, not what we have today or what MAFIAA is trying to introduce.
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I don't see Google laughing at us (the opposers of SOPA). Incidentally, they own Youtube. And incidentally, they are in the opposition too because they know the burden that it would place on the providers.
It goes without saying given your lack of ability (or will) to actually put valid arguments in the discussion but Google has a very competent crew (which includes a legal team) and their word has much more value and weight than your empty comments. If they saw problems then they are there. Mike has 14 years of experience and his word has weight too. But if you have half a brain you can always read the bill and various analysis out there and easily conclude that THERE ARE problems and that current laws are more than enough to deal with the online infringements (I do think fair use lacks support but that's for another comment).
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I am sure that anyone who has been gorging themselves at the buffet of stolen, purloined, or illegally reused content will be upset to find out that the free lunch which has extend itself into a free tea time as well might actually come to an end, or at least have fewer dishes on the menu. Like anything of this nature, some of the public will be upset. However, it is a fairly big error to suggest that all of the public is against it, because that is just not the case.
How many people use the bittorrent protocol?
How many official movies have come out using bittorrent?
How about authorized streams?
Before you sit here accusing everyone of some "stolen" buffet (especially since infringement := theft) you might want to look at the house and its cards.
The people fighting the bill appear to be very disorganized, and unable to put forth any really good arguments beyond "if you make us stop using other people's content without permission, we might have to get rid of a few jobs".
There's been some really good arguments, but similar to a Luddite, you ignore all objective analysis in pursuit of faith based economics. So I ask again, how can anyone show that the copyright central industries can grow by making their own services when every time someone has a good idea you do your best to put your hands in your ear and say "La la, can't hear you?"
It's hard to imagine that having much sway when you consider how much has been lost on the content creation side in the last 10 years.
How about none? How about the fact that people moved on to form their own, smaller businesses? Or do you have no proof as always?
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Yeah, the free market is anti-choice because it restricts companies to business models that work in the free market. *eyeroll*
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: "New platforms" aren't wanted when don't guarantee money.
I hope you aren't using MS at work.
Paid for it.
I hope you don't work inside any kind of shelter other than the one you made yourself.
Paid for it.
I hope you don't need a car to get work or to get to work, unless you designed and built it yourself.
Paid for it.
Talk about willfully stupid
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: "New platforms" aren't wanted when don't guarantee money.
You're kidding right? Why is someone entitled to make money from my creation?
Paid for it
Paid for it
Paid for it
So to play music in a bar, all you need to do is buy a CD right?
Talk about willfully entitled.
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You can think what you want, but that doesn't make it true.
"Website developers" generally are against PROTECT IP and SOPA, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with taking content for free and making money on it. Most "website developers" are too busy worrying about SQL injections into their PHP code to try to "take content for free."
They're concerned because this particular bill would put them out of work. Without safe harbors protection, the internet economy wouldn't have been able to hire half of these folks.
it is a fairly big error to suggest that all of the public is against it, because that is just not the case.
It is only an error if you don't pay attention to what the public actually says. For example, if you go to Popvox.com, you'll find that the PROTECT IP bill has a disapproval rating of 90%. Yes, that means 9 out of 10 people who care about IP view the bill as unsupportable. And let's not ignore the fact that a single group, Demand Progress, got ten times as many signatures in a single day opposing these bills, than the major labels got to support them in their entire campaign.
On the other hand, you have not provided one shred of evidence that the general populace supports your position. Because you can't, because they don't. Even folks who believe pirates should be strung up by their nuts don't support this bill.
The people fighting the bill appear to be very disorganized, and unable to put forth any really good arguments beyond "if you make us stop using other people's content without permission, we might have to get rid of a few jobs".
They only appear that way because only because that's the image you desperately want to present. The opponents of this bill have absolutely nothing to do with "using other peoples' content without permission." They are the people who are actually succeeding in the economy, creating jobs, and funding startup companies who will eventually make the labels and studios a lot of money.
And make no mistake: they have created more jobs than are lost in the entertainment industry. In fact, they've created more jobs in the past ten years than ever existed in the entertainment industry. People who make Facebook apps, alone, account for nearly 200,000 jobs created. And that's just one tiny segment of the tech industry.
On the other hand, nobody in the copyright industry has been able to show proof that even a single job was lost due to "piracy." Jobs certainly have been lost, but that doensn't mean piracy is to blame. Everyone (outside of the Beltway) knows that the music industry, for example, is doing poorly because of entities like iTunes and Amazon, who "de-bundled" single track sales from the sale of complete albums. (And, in the process, actually paid artists much more than they could ever get from the record labels.)
And, let's not forget that in the years since piracy became widespread, Hollywood studios' profits have done nothing but increase. If any jobs in that industry are lost, it's due to outsourcing, not piracy.
So, basically, you're passing laws that are designed to hamper the fastest-growing sector of the economy, in order to appease legacy industries, who wouldn't do any better even if the laws were passed. It is a bill that is custom designed to lose American jobs.
The bill is nonsense, and you know it.
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Umm... what safe harbors? The DMCA is the foundation upon which this abomination is being built, and if we don't understand that, we've already lost. The DMCA is one link in a long chain of progressive destruction of the original purpose, gradually perverting it from a law intended to protect people from abusive publishers and enrich the public domain to a system intended to enable abusive publishers and abolish the public domain.
The DMCA is not acceptable in any way. It makes a mockery of the principles of our justice system, and it needs to be not only repealed but reversed, turning the use of the evil technologies that the DMCA protects into the criminal acts that they are.
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Re: "New platforms" aren't wanted when don't guarantee money.
I would not buy half as much from the entertainment industry if people did not post screenshots/comic panels/book passages on the internet.
I saw Thor because of some great screenshots on the web. I started buying some Marvel comics because of panels posted on Tumblr, same with some DC. I started watching several cartoons because people on the internet posted stuff that made it sound AWESOME and yes, some of that stuff (screenshots, panels, clips) was copy-written.
But you know what? I've only been tempted to watch pirated movies (and then only for free) for 1 reason--there's about 3-4 months between the theater and VHS/DVD/Blu-Ray release and I want to see it again sooner. Even if it's been in theaters for 2 months there's still a good-sized gap between first seeing it and owning it.
If you didn't make us wait, some of us wouldn't get so annoyed.
So you know what? I poured over two hundred legitimate dollars (and I don't have much so that's really a lot) into the entrainment industry because of the internet and some very mild copyright infringement. You lost no money on me--heck, that's more than I've spent since I begged for Pokemon cards weekly when I was little.
So technically, those mild infringements made you guys money. Tumblr and YouTube made you money. Now go thank them.
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the Flawed DMCA should be scrapped also
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Mike Nails It
We have enough laws to enforce I/P protections. Look at the MegaUpload takedown. The US and New Zealand cooperated to enforce infringement and racketeering laws. Conversely, look at how YouTube polices itself and its uploaders. We don't need more laws.
We need innovation by those smart enough to make an honest buck without resorting to criminality - outright theft isn't so smart in the final analysis.
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