Lawmakers Propose Resale Right For US Artwork To Harm Young Artist & Help Already Successful Ones
from the droit-de-suite-should-be-dumped-tout-de-suite dept
Over the summer, we wrote about a ridiculous new lobbying effort, led by the author of the DMCA, Bruce Lehman, to create an artist resale right in the US. We've discussed similar plans found elsewhere, and there's no way to describe them other than as a ridiculously bad idea. It's basically an attempt to have artists get paid multiple times for the same piece of work, without anyone planning these things by talking to an economist about how badly that will backfire. Either way, it looks like the lobbying effort has succeeded so far, as Rep. Jerrold Nadler and Senator Herb Kohl, have introduced bills to create such a right across the US in both the House and the Senate.Basically, the idea is that after an artist sells a work, if the work is later resold, the artist gets a piece of the proceeds. The economically clueless thinking behind this is that artists sell works off when they're unknown and starving for little money... but then when they become famous, it seems only "fair" that the artist should get a cut of the multi-million dollar sale of their artwork. Except that ignores common sense and reality (is it any wonder that it was easy to find two politicians to support such a plan?). First of all, artist resale rights harm artists. That's because it now makes it more expensive for anyone to invest in art, knowing that they get less on every resale, because some has to go back to the artist. Any time you make it more expensive for people to invest in young artists, you harm those artists.
More importantly, this only helps already super successful artists, because they're the only ones who make money off of this. The Nadler and Kohl bills only apply to sales of artwork over $10,000. If an artist has works that are selling for that much they're already super successful and can make a lot more money by simply making new art and selling it themselves. In other words, once you've reached the stage where your old art is selling for $10,000, you shouldn't be relying on an artist resale right anyway. You should be making new art and selling it for a lot of money directly and cashing in.
So, to recap: this kind of right harms new artists by making it more expensive for anyone to invest in their art, and it only helps super successful artists who can already make a ton of money from their art. It seems like the exact and total opposite of what would be smart policy on a copyright issue.
What's amazing is that these bills keep popping up. The UK and Australia recently passed these laws, and California already has one -- though it's widely ignored. You would think that politicians would be concerned about introducing legislation that hurts young up-and-coming artists and only helps the superstar artists, but apparently that wasn't a concern for these particular politicians or for Bruce Lehman, who was lobbying on behalf of... the Artists Rights Society, whose main goal here is to be the middleman to collect these fees (not exactly an altruistic position).
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Filed Under: artwork, bruce lehman, droit de suite, herb kohl, jerrold nadler, resale right, us
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What's that you say? Art accounting means they get nothing while the AAIAA keep all the fees? Wow. Didn't see that coming.
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That's what AAIAA really stands for, right?
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Just how many people does this bill "help"?
As some one who used to dabble in the arts I can't help but understand this bill to a degree. If I'm just starting out and one of my early pieces sells for a few hundred dollars and then a couple years later I'm a big shot and my original piece is being resold for a much larger sum, sure I'd want a cut of that!
But is that fair/reasonable? I sold that piece of art. It's no longer mine. Sure I created it, but I don't 'own' it any more. Why do I deserve a cut? The person who bought it, made a good investment. Of course the art could have just as easily not appreciated in value. At the time of original sale I didn't care about that. I was making a sale.
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Re: Just how many people does this bill "help"?
If that is not possible they want a time machine like law that will enable them to extort money from everybody else.
That is why IP laws must end.
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Re: Re: Just how many people does this bill "help"?
It's mostly the middlemen who stand to benefit from this and other IP laws. Corporations are the only "beings" that live long enough to fully profit off of the length of copyright beyond the lifetime of the artist.
To have a system where artists get paid for the resale of their work, you need a bureaucratic corporate middleman maintaining a database of works and contact and payment information. There's profit to be made there, especially with "creative accounting" that sees little or no payments to artists.
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Re: Just how many people does this bill "help"?
You might be on to something. Lets hold the artist liable for losses on future sales. That is only fair, right? If they get to participate in the profits, they should participate in the losses as well.
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Re: Just how many people does this bill "help"?
No, this is replete with the concept of modifying a contract after the fact. Besides, they don't really deserve a cut of the transaction, they didn't earn it. The artist didn't add value to the art, society did by taking an interest in the artist's works. That's basically getting something for nothing.
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Re: Re: Just how many people does this bill "help"?
Destroying the value of a work will only DECREASE demand.
Don't place burdens on resale. It will just make people less motivated to buy to begin with.
Then there's the entire overhead of administering all of this...
A big mess all around.
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Re: Just how many people does this bill "help"?
It's no different than a lawyer or a auto mechanic or a doctor. They charge low for their services as they start out and build their reputation. Then they get to charge correspondingly higher fees as their reputation builds.
If I can't continue to deliver goods people want, then I go work at a gas station or a factory like everyone else.
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Wonky Pyramid
Now if only I could get a cut from all the items my online company sells should these items be sold on second hand. Nice but it would never happen.
This proposal has two obvious faults. The first is that the buyer is the one to take the risk in the painting. So if the painting loses value then does the artist have to cough up part of the loss to compensate the seller? All win and no loss is hardly a fair open market.
Then second would be if the artist become famous they can live their fame and make new art to sell for millions. That is unless they since lost their hands in a lawnmower challenge but that is karma for you.
So this is only another group of people wanting something for nothing. Free cash. They seem to forget when you sell an item you transfer ownership.
The end conclusion is if the artist wants to take the risk in the painting then they should not have sold it in the first place.
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Re: Wonky Pyramid
This sounds like our government. Only the people at the top can afford to buy our politicians and receive huge ROI's.
It's sad that our government is beginning to resemble a pyramid scheme.
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may only benefit secondary markets
(FYI: the primary market sees dealers and gallerists working directly between living artists and buyers, secondary market is about resales - they don't usually work with - living - artists directly, only buyers and sellers and estates. Young and emerging artists' only opportunities for success - at least in the commercial art realm led by galleries - lie in the primary market)
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We should apply this to everything
This is ridiculous and I don't see how it could stand up in court. It basically impedes on the right of first sale. But then again, what about IP law doesn't?
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Re: We should apply this to everything
Frankly if an artist wanted to sell only 80% ownership of a work and attach some contractual agreement concerning re-seller's rights, I bet they could do so right now. I also bet they'd have a hard time finding customers to line up around the block to buy something that they don't actually get to own.
This legislation sounds like it would limit consumer choice to an arrangement that would never exist in a competitive and free market. The only other choices left would be not to purchase at all or... *gasp* purchase from foreign artist who don't automatically employ a "you don't own your property" clause.
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yet another case of governments world wide collaborating with each other. get a ridiculous, encumbering law introduced in one country and it then happens in another. much like the entertainment industries and their stupid ideas of being non-competitive! kill something off (because people will buy less) instead of producing more and better products that more people can afford!
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Just another assault on the "First Sale" doctrine
This is just another assault on �First Sale�.
�
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Maybe congress is hoping some zombie artists decide to make some new paintings because of the extra cash it'll get them.
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Then cut out the middleman. Just pay your Congressman directly.
And your Congressman will handle any reverse-kickbacks to the lobbyists for you. Kinda like if he was acting as your agent.
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There, I fixed it.
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FTFY
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Yet another industry about to move offshore
Next up, export restrictions on artwork.
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Re: Yet another industry about to move offshore
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out of curiosity, how many artists belong to the 'Artists Rights Society'? have they authorised this? have they thought it through or just assumed that they will get the money and not those inbetweeners, like normally happens.
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More importantly, this only helps already super successful artists, because they're the only ones who make money off of this. The Nadler and Kohl bills only apply to sales of artwork over $10,000. If an artist has works that are selling for that much they're already super successful and can make a lot more money by simply making new art and selling it themselves.
Your logic is so twisted it hurts. If this only applies to artists who are "already super successful," and if you admit that this "only helps already super successful artists," then you have just admitted that this will help the very artists it applies to.
In other words, once you've reached the stage where your old art is selling for $10,000, you shouldn't be relying on an artist resale right anyway. You should be making new art and selling it for a lot of money directly and cashing in.
Or they could just do both. Sheesh.
So, to recap: this kind of right harms new artists by making it more expensive for anyone to invest in their art, and it only helps super successful artists who can already make a ton of money from their art.
Again, you already admitted that this only applies to artists who can already sell their artwork for $10,000 or more, and you already admitted that this will "only help[]" them. So how does it "harm[] new artists by making it more expensive to invest in their art"? If someone's willing to pay $10,000 or more for a piece of artwork, do you have ANY EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that they wouldn't spend a little bit more? Nope.
What's amazing is that these bills keep popping up.
What's amazing is how twisted and stupid your logic is. What's amazing is how you HATE that artists have ANY RIGHTS. What's amazing is how you don't think artists should exercise the rights they have. What's amazing is how you defend piracy day in and day out, but you think that no one notices that you're pro-piracy.
And what's truly amazing is how you pretend that your policy preference is really an economic reality.
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You do remember when house builders tried to pass a law saying that if you sold a house you should pay them a little?
Why didn't it pass?
Now why some douche artist should get that right?
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Mike does hate the fact that artists have rights in their works, and he does not support artists exercising those rights. That's just a fact.
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Funny - that didn't stop you from churning out a page of polemics about how stupid Mike is to oppose it... Maybe next time you should stop and think before getting up in arms defending a bill you are later going to claim "sounds stupid"
As it stands you have expended far more breath in favour of this bill than opposed to it, so I've still got you under the "support" column...
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Oh please - quit trying to pretend you've put thought into this. You just admitted that you only just heard of this bill - and clearly you leapt into your rant before even considering it. You're just another bitter failed artist, I suspect.
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As the post states, it hurts unsuccessful ones by making investment in their art less appealing. The benefits go to successful artists, but the costs come from small ones. I thought that was pretty damn clear. Are you really that bad at reading comprehension or, y'know, just the reading part?
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Why should anybody care about art?
If I want something the next contract will be ridiculously onesided the "artist" will have to give up his soul to get work how is that for consequences?
Since this is not a uniform law that applies worldwide, people can just find art elsewhere so local artists will have no jobs.
You apparently lack the imagination necessary to see how bad this could turn out, now explain how a very small percentage of people deserve rights that only benefit them at the expense of everybody else?
Is just like copyright, it benefits only a minority of people and although in theory it applies to everybody in practice things are different the only people able to afford those protections are the people who least need them and they benefit from a granted monopoly that harms not only others from the same group, but it also harms society and it is starting to get serious because censorship and surveilance is not a joke and the root cause of it is the monopoly granted, that was a mistake and it is time to correct that mistake by ending it.
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Aaaaaaand cue irony.
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Why should you get anything at all for it is beyond me, that is also why I want to see copyrights and patents gone.
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The commenter pointed out that copyrights and patents are part of the same problem right in his comment - so clearly he is already aware of what you're saying here. Are you done acting like you're so much smarter than everyone, or do you still have some more unearned smugness to get out of your system?
I can't believe I didn't realize it before. You're just a bitter failed artist of some kind...
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That is exactly the kind of thing that create confusion and attrition inside a society.
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> nonexclusive licensee of movie that's on it.
But if this bill were to pass, you couldn't even sell the physical disc you supposedly own without giving the artists (i.e., the studio) a cut.
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> still collect DVDs!). I own the physical disc,
> but I am only a nonexclusive licensee of movie
> that's on it.
That is a bald faced lie.
You own the copy of that work.
There is no "license".
You can resell or rent that physical item in any manner you choose. It's your personal property. You can use or dispose of it accordingly. We have rights as individuals despite your attempts to claim that we do not.
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Well, there is actually... Joe is right: you are the owner of the disc, and the licensee of the movie itself.
I'm not sure what any of that has to do with artist resale rights though.
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Then you go and flip out about something like this for no immediately obvious reason.
So I think it's clear that you have another motivation... and I wonder what it is. Are you a failed artist, Joe?
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So you admit that this law will only benefit those artists that don't actually need the help.
Or they could just do both. Sheesh.
Or they could work like every other person in the world and make money on the work they do today not the work they did 20 years ago. The world does not work the way you IP maximalists want it to work. I am doing work today that will benefit those organizations I work for for years to come. I don't expect to get paid in perpetuity for their gain. I expect to get paid for the work I do today. Why should an artist be treated any differently?
Again, you already admitted that this only applies to artists who can already sell their artwork for $10,000 or more, and you already admitted that this will "only help[]" them. So how does it "harm[] new artists by making it more expensive to invest in their art"? If someone's willing to pay $10,000 or more for a piece of artwork, do you have ANY EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that they wouldn't spend a little bit more? Nope.
Let's think about this for a minute. There is an arbitrary ceiling of $10,000. I don't know what the cut is but let's say it is 20%. Now that piece of art that will sell for $10,000 will only net me $8000. Why would I sell it for $10,000 and pay the artist when I could sell it for $9000, make more money and not have to pay a fee? How is that going to help an as yet unsuccessful artist?
You see that places an unfair price ceiling on the work of artists that aren't currently selling works for more than $10,000 at the time of this law passing. This prevents those artists from becoming successful.
What's amazing is how twisted and stupid your logic is. What's amazing is how you HATE that artists have ANY RIGHTS. What's amazing is how you don't think artists should exercise the rights they have.
Mike doesn't hate artists. Mike wants them to succeed. That is why he is arguing against a bill that would make it far harder for artists to succeed. Why you can't see that is beyond me. You would think a law student would have a better grasp of unintended consequences.
And what's truly amazing is how you pretend that your policy preference is really an economic reality.
What is really amazing is how many trolls have no clue how economics work.
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Why sell a piece of art for $10,000 and only make $9300 when I could sell it for $9500, make more money and not have to pay the artists.
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Interesting
If you read the comments at URL
http://the1709blog.blogspot.com/2010/12/artist-resale-royalty-harmonisation-and.html
you will see that real people who deal in Australian art agree with Mike that it is damaging simply because fewer people will buy art as an investment (or even agree to market art for artists who choose to have a lifestyle which makes locating them difficult).
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Faith based FUD much?
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Basically - yeah. The fact that copyrights are a problem both culturally and economically, and that enforcing them is usually a waste of time and resources for creators, is kind of the main thesis of all copyright coverage on techdirt... Are you really only just figuring that out now? Wow.
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Joe doesn't seem able to think in a nuanced way, except when it comes to thick legal dockets (and even then, it's dubious)
I don't even want to bother trying to explain to him the difference between having a tonne of problems with copyright today and being an actual copyright abolitionist - I doubt he's interested in understanding. If he wants to believe Mike is a copyright abolitionist, let him - everything's relative, after all, and relative to Joe's extreme pro-copyright position we all might as well be abolitionists.
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But as average joe has shown, that will be hard for copyright maximalists to accept.
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These people can't use copyright without abusing it, it gets taken away.
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If to a maximalist, everyone else is an abolitionist, then being an abolitionist is the only option that makes sense.
Anything less will just cause the exact same amount of rage.
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It's "you're either with us or against us" kind of logic.
If you oppose any measure that would increase the scope and power of copyright then you are some degenerate pirate IP abolitionist. There's no middle ground.
There's no 1830 or 1970 version of copyrights and patents.
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The only person FUDing anything apparently is you.
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Fine you dishonest prick.
Most people have an issue with monopolies, it doesn't mean people are against one specific set of people but against the laws that enable some at the expense of everybody else.
Artists don't deserve a monopoly in fact nobody does, now explain why again do we give that to them?
What is in it for society?
You keep defending monopolies, censorship and abuse of the law like that is ok because is for the children or something.
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If there is any abuse of copyright, it comes from those that seek to expand it farther and farther from the Constitutional aspect of a limited right for a limited time. The founders of this country put that clause in place to help spur the growth of a national culture. Now it has been bastardized into a monopoly of the worst sort.
I have no problem with anyone having a limited monopoly on a copyrighted work. I have problems with a perpetual monopoly on those works.
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The only peop[le who get these kinds of "rights" are Imaginary Property creation companies. It's insane, stupid and it has to stop.
First off, it makes it much harder for those starting out because, and this may be hard for you, they are exempted from the law due to the amounts involved (accxording to certain, ACs anyway.
Secondly, Why should these so-called artists get to rest on their laurels and blindly profit when, for example, network providers don't get to profit once they've made a succesful network bluieprint? (I was originally goin to go with a car analogy, but those fail in the digital world.)
And thirdly, not a single damned person deserves to be paid. Ever.
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This sentence gave me a headache.
Until you can cite anything even remotely approaching a study of economics that disproves Mikes "policy preference" as not being grounded in research and reality, it's difficult to take the complaints of someone who is promoting his own policy preference solely based on faith and personal attacks against those who disagree seriously. Particularly when you then turn around and say:
Which completely undermines your entire rant as being nothing but a knee jerk reaction for the sake of a stupid personal vendetta.
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Reading comprehension was never your strong suit. This is a story where Mike Masnick is, yet again, looking out for the *best interests* of artists by suggesting that a law that harms up-and-coming artists and only benefits those already successful is bad for most artists.
I can't believe that I get attacked as being somehow "anti-artist" for speaking out against a bill that hurts artists.
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I can't believe that I get attacked as being somehow "anti-artist" for speaking out against a bill that hurts artists.
You, of course, did not address the substance of my argument. How do the bills "harm[] up-and-coming artists" if you admit that the "bills only apply to sales of artwork over $10,000," i.e., only appl to artists who are "already super successful" (and whom it can "only help[]")?
I know you won't give a simple answer to this simple question, Mike. Let the weaseling begin...
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I know you won't give a simple answer to this simple question, Mike. Let the weaseling begin...
Wow, you're thick. Here's your simple answer (and it really is very simple):
The law only applies to SALES over $10,000. A huge part of the art industry is people buying things from small artists for much less than that, in the hope that LATER they will sell it for big money. It is an INVESTMENT.
If they know that, in the future, if the piece goes up in value, they will have to give the artist a cut, then that initial investment becomes LESS VALUABLE to them. So they will be less inclined to purchase the work from the small artist, since their potential payoff is now smaller.
Clear? Good. Now we can move past such incredibly elementary aspects of the discussion, I hope.
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Making sense to you now?
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Yes, I'm sure it's that, and nothing to do with the fact that you really stuck your foot in it by making idiotic statements that we've all disproved several times over.
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I know you won't give a simple answer to this simple question, Mike. Let the weaseling begin...
Um. This isn't complicated at all. While the *fee* only applies to sales over $10,000, the IMPACT applies to any sale before it reaches that, because anyone making the investment knows that any future potential return is diminished.
Look this is really basic economics. I mean it's the stuff that you would normally get past in your first week of econ 101. If you're looking to invest in widget A, but I tell you that later on when you sell widget A you'll have to pay a 7% tax on it, your calculation of how much you invest in widget A and how much you'll pay for it changes, because your ROI calculation changes and you're guaranteed to make less on your investment than you would otherwise.
That's not "faith-based." That's just basic reality. There's no assumptions or opinions here. This is pure fact-based stuff.
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Look this is really basic economics. I mean it's the stuff that you would normally get past in your first week of econ 101. If you're looking to invest in widget A, but I tell you that later on when you sell widget A you'll have to pay a 7% tax on it, your calculation of how much you invest in widget A and how much you'll pay for it changes, because your ROI calculation changes and you're guaranteed to make less on your investment than you would otherwise.
That's not "faith-based." That's just basic reality. There's no assumptions or opinions here. This is pure fact-based stuff.
So basically your argument is that people won't want to buy art as an investment because if it appreciates too much (above $10,000) and they sell it, then they'll have to pay some percentage as a fee. And you claim this is "pure fact-based stuff." OK, show me the data. Show me the proof. It's obvious that you have absolutely no evidence that artists would be harmed by this. It's 100% faith-based. It's 100% assumption. It's 100% opinion. Show me the proof or admit that you just assumed it all to be true. Show me exactly how you know for certain that this is "fact-based stuff." I won't hold my breath. And saying it's "basic economics" doesn't cut it. The fact is you cannot prove this would hurt artists. It's just a guess based on some basic economic principles that may not be true in this particular market or may be subject to some countervailing forces that you aren't accounting for. Sorry, Mike, you haven't proved a thing except that you're just making it up.
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I cannot imagine what poisonous cesspit your mind must contain, because there's obviously nothing human there.
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It's pretty obvious your real problem is that you have a huge hard-on for Mike and this is the only way you can get his attention. You might want to get that looked at.
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You are a moron of epic proportions. Why you continue to assume that mike is wrong shows that.
Mike has given you the basics of economics. A science that has existed for centuries. This science has proven time and time again that when any sale is taxed to the detriment of the seller, then sales will drop. Why you don't get that is beyond me.
Try to keep up and maybe take an economics course or two while you are in school.
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For all we know the bulk of up-and-coming artists sell their works for $500 or less, and nobody would not buy a piece because of the possibility of there being some additional fee if it sells for more than $10,000 somewhere down the road. I've bought lots of art with no consideration of resale value--these bills wouldn't negatively affect my purchasing decisions. I have no idea how that market works, and neither does Mike. All he gives is a conclusory statement that it will hurt up-and-coming artists. That just doesn't cut it. That's just an argument, and one supported by no proof.
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Stick with law analysis, please.
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In case anyone wonders what Joe is blithering about, basically his problem is a failure to understand really simple stuff that most children start to grasp in elementary school when trading lunches with each other. Like say there was some average joe in your class who fancied himself a high-power lawyer (even though everyone saw him getting off the short bus every morning) and he wanted to trade his grapes for your sandwich. You know that there's this other kid who will trade chocolate pudding for grapes, so you stand to make a serious profit. But the idiot wannabe-lawyer kid asks you to sign a contract, saying that if you ever trade the grapes for pudding, you have to give him two spoonfuls. Well, you don't really want to share your pudding with that kid (god knows what diseases he has, for one thing) so you figure it's not worth it, and go off to find a better trade.
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No. Really AJ, let's try some reading comprehension, because you're looking like a complete and utter fool here. Do you really not comprehend basic math?
If I'm investing, I take into account the ROI. If that ROI is lower, I invest less. This isn't "FUD" or "faith-based." This is basic common sense. I never said that people won't buy art because it "appreciates too much." I said (pretty clearly to anyone with a basic comprehension of the English language) that people would invest *less* because the ROI would be lower.
No offense, but you can't argue that point unless you are challenging the history of all economics.
OK, show me the data. Show me the proof. It's obvious that you have absolutely no evidence that artists would be harmed by this. It's 100% faith-based. It's 100% assumption. It's 100% opinion.
Dude. Seriously. Take an economics class, then come back and apologize for being a blithering idiot.
The "proof" is easy: if I need to make x% on my investments to make it worthwhile, and the law taxes any return y by 7%, my x now needs to be 7% higher. That means I *INVEST LESS*. This isn't rocket science.
Sorry, Mike, you haven't proved a thing except that you're just making it up.
No. I've proved my point. As everyone else here can see.
I may have also proved that you're not particularly intelligent. That was just a bonus.
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Where's the studies, Mike?
Following the link the poster gave just above, it appears that at least one report disagrees with you: Source: http://the1709blog.blogspot.com/2010/12/artists-royalty-right-not-as-much.html
I don't pretend to know what the right answer is. Maybe you're right. Maybe it does hurt artists. What I do know is that you haven't proved anything. All you've done is stated an economic theory and assumed that it would explain this whole market without any data whatsoever. I know you're smart enough to know it doesn't work like that. You're lying if you say you've proved it.
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I don't think you understand what economic theory means. We're not talking about a hypothesis. We're talking about the laws of economics.
Where's the studies, Mike?
You really can't be this clueless. Do you need a study to show that if you decrease the ROI people will invest less in it?
Following the link the poster gave just above, it appears that at least one report disagrees with you:
That report focuses on one key aspect: did the market move overseas. That's unrelated to the question of how much will be invested in the works of young artists. That study appears not to even attempt to answer that question. It's answering a totally irrelevant question: does the market go away. Well, duh, of course it doesn't go away. But that's not what we're discussing. Which you would know if you slowed down and READ WHAT EVERYONE HERE IS TELLING YOU.
You're really coming off as a total ignorant buffoon. You should stop doing that.
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Yes, you need the study. Why? Because there's more going on in this market than simply people investing for the ROI. I personally am in the up-and-coming art market as a buyer, and I can tell you that the possibility of being taxed more should the artwork appreciate in value significantly is not (and would not) be a factor in my purchasing. Perhaps the vast majority of buyers are like me.
The joke is that I'm trying to explain a simple economic fact to you, and you're pretending like ROI is the only issue in that market. It's not and you know it. You're simply lying to get your way. What's new, right? And the fact that you aren't pointing us to any actual studies leads me to think the studies that exist are contra to what you claim. Why else wouldn't you point to the studies if not but to deceive?
That report focuses on one key aspect: did the market move overseas.
I got the sense that the study looked at more than that, but I couldn't find the full study. I did find another one, though: http://www.ipo.gov.uk/study-droitdesuite.pdf
Major findings include: Now, I have no idea how reliable that study is, but it does show that this situation is a lot more complicated than your overly-simplistic claim that it's all about ROI.
Good grief, Mike. Just admit that you didn't and can't prove it hurts artists. I know you won't. But don't think for one second you're fooling anyone. What's amazing is that you NEED to claim that it hurts artists, no matter what the actual data says. You start with the conclusion and work backwards. I've seen you do it time and again, just like you're doing here. What a joke.
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Joe, stop pretending to be an economist, please.
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Think first, post later (if at all)
http://the1709blog.blogspot.com/2010/12/artist-resale-royalty-harmonisation-and.html
before posting. The comments section includes interesting information from various people who make a living from Australian art, about the relatively recently passed Australian version of this (the Australian version is less forceful than the EC one, in that artists can opt-out --- although they have to do it on a sale-by-sale basis).
Since you're a troll and won't probably bother to read them, let me summarize: Mike is right, you are wrong. How surprising!
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Everything is "art"
The various lobbying groups will claim "if you are thinking of the painter, why not the fashion designer, the graphic's artist, etc, etc?"
- Videogame companies, who have been complaining about the used game market would absolutely love this.
- Ditto for nearly every other consumable media.
- What about companies like Apple? Many people consider their products works of art. I'm sure they would like a cut of used computer sales.
- The auto industry would easily jump on board. They would rake in billions if they got 5% of every used car sold.
Horrible law for the general public and society in general, great law for those who have money.
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It's Win-Win
Along with this is a "buyers right". So that, if I buy a piece of artwork and it DOESN'T go up in value and I CAN'T resale it... then I get to charge the original artist for lost profits on an estimated sale.
I mean, after all... that's FAIR. Why should I get socked with a lame duck artist when other people bought art from an artist who became famous!
That's ridiculous! I need my FAIR share too!
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Have you bought a house recently?
You may have to pay the original developer if you sell the house LoL
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This predatory laws are just schemes to gouge the public and reduce their rights.
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Nadler and Kohl - finest representatives money can buy
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Economic Limits
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Maybe a fix
Shouldn't the tax rather be a "tax on added value" i.e. sale price - purchase price ? That would make it less crippling and will keep it at a reasonnable level.
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This is SUCH an important point. So many of the detractors here seem to think that if you oppose copyright, you oppose artists ever exercising any control over their work. But that's bullshit.
The issue is all the automatic control that is thrust on creators, and the chilling effect it creates by locking the whole industry in an ersatz framework of regulations and royalties and mechanical licenses. Copyright law doesn't empower artists - in fact it LIMITS how they can manage their own rights by taking away all sorts of choices.
In a world without copyright, it would be all about contracts - and that would be a good thing. There would be standard agreements that get used a lot, and also all sorts of unique and creative agreements that are tailored to a given circumstance. And of course those who wish to leave their work in the public domain (yes, leave it there, since PD would once again become the default status of a creative work, as it should be) would be free to do so without having to jump through hoops or settle for a less-than-perfect license like CC0.
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But can they sue?
Because if I'm holding a valuable piece of art and I don't sell it, I'm denying that artist revenue right?
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Resale rights are a terrible, TERRIBLE idea
Such laws are stupidly uninforcible. They do not help content creators/starving artists/etc. It may help a collections company fatten their bottom line - if they can find out about the sale of such art.
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On a separate note, painters who want to hold onto sales rights can always keep the original piece and stick to selling prints. A system which has been working since prints first became feasible.
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Right now I would love to get a percent of every resale of my art, if I was selling it for 10,000 dollars a pop I wouldn't need this law, I would still hold the copyright for the artwork and would make money of for the sale of prints, like most artists do.
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Stick To Logic
I think the law violates the idea that copyright should encourage creation of more works. And it violates common sense that once you buy something, it is yours.
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Version 1: Artist offers painting for $500. Buyer thinks it will one day be worth $10,000, when he will sell it. Buyer stands to make $9,500 - so he decides to buy.
Version 2: Artist offers painting for $500. Buyer thinks it will one day be worth $10,000, when he will sell it and pay 7% back to the original artist. Buyer now only stands to make $8,800. Will he still decide to buy?
Maybe not. The value of the investments in small artists' work has gone down. And basic economics shows that it is inevitable that will lead to less investment in small artists' work.
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burn it
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The Great Clawback
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The motivation
Also to the buyer, if a person buys a peice of work he or she should not be responsable for the constant payment to the artist, that undermines the idea of the gift.
Politicians should spend their energy focusing on more important problems, and leave the current model alone. It doesn't surprise me however that this will only greatly benefit those artist that are already making upwards of 10,000 a sale, for as we all passively know, that's who they work for.
Bad idea.
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You're right everybody...
(read S A R C A S M)
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