Carreon Admits His Original Threat Letter Was A Mistake, But Keeps On Digging Anyway
from the stop-digging,-charles dept
Another day, and still, Charles Carreon keeps digging. In case you just woke up from a coma, here are all the earlier posts on Carreon. The latest is both a bizarre semi-backtrack, as well as another case of him feverishly continuing to dig that Carreon Effect hole deeper and deeper.The "backtrack" comes to us via Popehat, pointing us to an interview with Carreon in which he admits that the letter he sent to kick off this whole mess... was a mistake. Yes. You read that right:
Ironically, the threat of the first lawsuit [Funnyjunk suing Inman] never materialized. Carreon admits he was misinformed: Before demanding the $20,000, which was based on FunnyJunk's "estimate of advertising losses sustained due to the taint of being accused of engaging in willful copyright infringement," Carreon was told that all Oatmeal comics had been taken off the FunnyJunk site, even though they hadn't. "If I had known... no demand would have gone out," he says.You would think that, upon realizing this -- that the entire premise of his letter which kicked off this entire thing was wrong -- he would think better off pursuing a separate strategy in response to the backlash for what he now admits was in error. But, no. Also, as Ken at Popehat points out, saying these things could be construed as "revealing a confidential attorney-client communication between himself and FunnyJunk in order to make himself look less ridiculous."
And then he continues to dig, dig, dig, dig dig.
You see, in another interview (dude gets around), this time with Ars Technica, Carreon trots out his latest bizarre theory of liability for Matthew Inman. In the lawsuit, he claimed that he thought Inman might keep everything raised above the target goal of $20,000, even though Inman never made any suggestion that was true, and in fact, Inman had said quite clearly (way before Carreon's rampage and lawsuit) that he was going to donate 100% of everything raised to charity. But Carreon says it doesn't matter:
“It sounds like he stands to make $180,000,” Carreon said. “He’s the authorized agent of IndieGoGo. I know this shit is hard to put together. That’s why we hire lawyers, because we read the statute and we take the risk.” (“Inman's commitment after the fact is not evidence of his original intention," Carreon clarified later by e-mail).It should be noted, of course, that it does not appear that Carreon has "hired a lawyer" since he filed the case pro se (representing himself). The whole "authorized agent of IndieGogo" thing seems to be an astoundingly weak attempt to twist what IndieGoGo does and what Inman did to fit it under the California law on commercial fundraisers.
But, here's where Carreon goes really far out on a limb. On the very same post where Inman tells everyone that 100% of the money is going to charity, he also points out that he is going to add some other charities to the list. Nearly everyone thinks this is a really good thing. More money going to more charities. Awesome. But, no, not to Carreon. Apparently this is evidence of a nasty "bait & switch"
“Inman's idea to add two more charities is another act that shows the risk of money being raised for one purpose to be diverted to another. For example, I raise money for an Israeli charity to pay for trips to the Holy Land, but then decide that half the money should go to Palestinian orphans, or more disturbingly, to Hezbollah, which also has a charity wing. It's one more reason why IndieGoGo should not contract with agents like Inman who do not know that ‘adding charities’ to a campaign is obviously ‘bait and switch’ false advertising.”Yeah, because everyone is just so sure that Inman's now going to add two charities that involve speeding up cancer causing agents and killing off bears to counter his original two charities.
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Filed Under: charity, charles carreon, matthew inman, streisand effect, the oatmeal
Companies: funnyjunk
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Palestinian Orphans can suck it according to Carrion
"For example, I raise money for an Israeli charity to pay for trips to the Holy Land, but then decide that half the money should go to Palestinian orphans, or more disturbingly, to Hezbollah, which also has a charity wing"
More disturbingly?
So you're saying that it's disturbing to offer support to the innocent orphans of religious violence?
Yeah, fuck all those Palestinian children who lost their parents to Israeli tanks. They aren't the chosen ones, so they can fend for themselves. Better to raise money so that pro-jewish Americans can afford plane fare to Israel.
You suck dude. Really really suck.
COMBB
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If so, I think he needs to bring his daughter to "Bring Your Child to Work Day".
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He claimed to have been working for funnyjunk for 5-6 months, and in that time he never thought to check the claims?
Yay for breaking privilege to try and regain some credibility (?!) but he keeps going.
I await the arrival of his wife screaming something nonsensical about how we are all against him because of something other than him being a giant moron.
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People are slowly waking up to the fact that just because a lawyer says it doesn't make it true.
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The dude is, quite obviously, just trying to get as much publicity as possible.
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Though you need to be careful; lawyers like them tend to be like Beetlegeuse or the Devil. Say their names and they will appear, and all that. Thankfully Thompson at least is disbarred, so the best he can do if he appears is to jump up and down throwing a fit like an enraged monkey.
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In fact, I'm pretty sure that making a promise in exchange for money and later abandoning or modifying the promise is called fraud. Unless it involves a politician, of course.
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I'm not busting his chops for trying to do something nice but he should really get some legal advice before he writes any checks.
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And before the Jewish people pop out from the woodwork to call me an anti-Semite, I observed this first hand in Israel.
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Jim Morrison said it best..."people are strange."
You can be against the actions of the country of Israel or against the political actions of Israel and not be anti-Semite. I sat in a technical symposium once where a very well known (one of the letters in RSA) scientist who happened to be of Jewish descent sat next to a cryptography expert who happened to be of Palestinian descent, and the point that neither of them would be sitting next to each other if they were in Israel, talking as if they were best friends (they were,) and enjoying each other's company was not lost to the rest of the folks in the room. They were asked by someone how this is possible, and Adi responded (I am paraphrasing here since it was a while ago and don't remember his exact words) that it is far easier to think clearly the further away you get from Israel. People so close to a conflict can only think about the conflict.
Part of the process of justifying violence on another person is dehumanizing them. Once you dehumanize them, it is far easier to treat them with little respect. One of the ways to dehumanize someone is to treat them as though they are something they aren't...a ploy used quite regularly here at Techdirt by the trolls (we are all pirates, right?) Justifies the insanity.
Though I'd suggest that like every conflict, there are folks on both sides dehumanizing one another. The fight's been going on so long that the folks don't even remember what the fight was originally about.
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When you say anything bad against Israel the first thing thrown at you is you are an anti-Semite.
Just like when pointing out contradictions and lies of the Obama campaign, I was a racist.
Just covering bases.
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:(
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Definition of stupidity
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Re: Definition of stupidity
I thought that was the definition of insanity...though with a twist, "doing something over and over again and expecting different results."
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One valid point
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Re: One valid point
I believe he got about 10 times that amount so far.
I'm not sure what other charities he had thought about donating the rest to, but his intention was to spread out the donations because he was surprised about the amount pouring in.
If there is an actual problem with him adding more, I am sure he will honor the original agreement to divide the amount raised between the 2 charities.
I think the bigger issue is there is only 1 donor, Carreon who only donated to get standing to have his hissy fit, has made any objection to there being additional charities added to share in the donations.
I think many people view the additional charities like a kickstarter project kicking in more benefits as the project surpasses the goal.
They have the list of donors, it shouldn't be difficult to see if anyone, besides Carreon, objects to their donation being "split".
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Apparently, Carreon is only using the addition to the charity list as a means to pursue Inman. He's an ass.
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Floating the idea that Inman will keep the other $180,000 raised beyond the original $20K
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My goal is to make X dollars. If I make 10X dollars do I stop collecting money and return 9X dollars just because what I am doing is more popular than I knew. I don't think so.
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Re: One valid point
So as long as they get 10k a piece I believe he has fulfilled all statements on the fundraiser. And if he ends up donating any overage to any number of other admirable causes, I hardly see how that will be proven as fraudulent.
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The update he wrote does say that the additional amount will go to 2 other charities as well. I just wish he would share the list of charities.
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In fact, the fundraiser is now at $210,450, w/ yet another 2 or 3 days to go! (4% isn't even $9k)
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Missing the Point
The fact that he is now at over 1000% of that goal should give Carreon some clue that he isn't on the right side of this thing.
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Re: Missing the Point
What's even worse is that I couldn't find what the other two charities were. For all I know, the money is going to Hezbollah, too.
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No, it's you assuming it's a worst case scenario.
And, you know what happens when you assume, boy...
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If you think people are donating just so those two charities can get some funds, you have read a different farce than I.
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Exit Strategy
That or he could just keep digging I guess. Either way, he will provide at least another week of entertainment, maybe more.
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Re: Exit Strategy
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Anybody who donated money based on that statement is justified in expecting their donation to indeed be sent to the NWF and ACS. Full stop. Whether their donation took the total collection from $1 to $2, from $19999 to $20000, or $180000 to $180001 does not change the purpose for which the donation was solicited.
If Mr Inman wishes to declare (at some point) that any further donations may be directed elsewhere, that is his prerogative; nonetheless, all donations accrued before that point must be distributed per the agreement at the time they were solicited.
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My prediction came true...
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Im gonna make a movie,
i will call it Carreon digging,
a comedy based on real events, i dont really think i would need to add any extra drama or comedy moments.
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Ah, narcisism...
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There isn't a man alive in this WORLD that would prosecute someone that adds another charity to this (assuming a nice safe one like another cancer research, etc, and not a iffy depending-on-your-politics one like -for instance- palistinian aid) though.
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http://imgur.com/e1GWE You mad bro?
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This won't end for at least a week...
...Or maybe he'll just keep rubbing his religious beliefs all over the internet with crappy poems and links to that poorly designed website his wife co-created all over the comment sections...
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Fun with Alliteration
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Oh well, silver linings and all. The longer this idiocy continues, the more free advertising IndieGoGo gets and the more people realise that Kickstarter is not unique or a monopoly in the indie crowdfunding space. This can't be anything other than a good thing IMHO.
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20 min. Tek Syndicate video
http://teksyndicate.com/videos/tek-charles-carreon-vs-internet-suing-oatmeal-indiegogo-nwf -acs
They do quote Techdirt.
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http://charles-carreon.com
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Final fundraising total
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more links: Charles Carreon ammends his complaint
(the comments are disecting it)
Lowering the Bar: Carreon Complaint Amended, Still Odd
Plus The Ammended Complaint it self, via Lowering the Bar, courtesy of Popehat
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