Megaupload Extradition Hearing Postponed Until At Least Spring Of 2013
from the and-its-business? dept
Given all of the mistakes made by both US and New Zealand officials in the raid on Kim Dotcom and Megaupload, there are a series of appeals going on in the case in New Zealand concerning some of the evidence as well as what information Dotcom is allowed to see. While the extradition hearing was set to occur next month, it's now been pushed back until at least March 2013 and could get extended longer. The idea is to give some time to let the appeals process run its course.Dotcom seems pretty pissed off about this, as every moment of delay means more time during which his business has been shut down without a single adversarial hearing -- and during which it can't be re-established. For pretty obvious reasons, this is immensely troubling. There was no reason why Megaupload couldn't have been brought to court under a normal civil lawsuit process, like so many other companies over the years -- including Napster, Morpheus, Grokster, Aimster, Veoh, YouTube and others. After the judge was able to hear both sides, they would have been able to determine if an injunction (and eventually, a complete shutdown) made sense or not. Megaupload didn't have that luxury. Instead, the US government simply decided to shut them down on what increasingly appears to be extraordinarily weak evidence. And as the legal process draws out, that business is gone.
What happens if the entire case falls apart? The US government then will have destroyed what turned out to be a legitimate business on no basis. This way, Hollywood gets to be happy, because the US government took out (at its own expense) a service they hated (but which many artists loved). That doesn't seem right at all.
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Filed Under: delay, extradition, hearing, kim dotcom, new zealand
Companies: megaupload
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Capital being the operative word!
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doesn't seem right?
But if it's so very simple and convenient..... you just can't help yourself ;-)
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Unless I'm mistaken, delaying the case until 2013 will cost at least $1.5 million. And I'm pretty sure the US government doesn't intend to pay that bill...
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No the Government discovered a better plan to not let them have the money for the servers and data to be restored. Then of course to have the MPAA to say "of course everyone can have their files back provided infringement is zero" which is technically impossible.
So why upset people with stating they want their precious files to be deleted when they can instead stick the whole lot in eternal limbo.
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Not exactly...
I don't think destroyed would be the best way to put it. Mega was a very popular service and if it were to come back, I don't think it would take long for it's traffic to return. Hollywood would not get to be happy. Even if Mega is declared to be a legitimate business, the reality is that the bulk of its popularity is due to the amount of infringing content that it makes available, but that is a cultural issue that needs to be resolved.
Laws are designed to be changed over time to deal with our evolving society. In the past century that has benefited the content industry, but doesn't mean that it has to continue in that direction.
Prohibition is often used as an example of the law being changed to reflect the will of the citizens. An example of the government creating legislation to support a failing business model can be found in the Fugitive Slave Acts of 1793 and 1850. Just because something is against the law now does not make it morally correct.
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Re: Not exactly...
I can play the hypothetical game, too! O know that at least in my case, I wouldn't look for copyrighted material on MegaUpload. I bet there are a lot of other folks like me. My guess is that a small number of users accounted for the vast majority of infringing content (which may be the "bulk" of 1s and 0s because the files are large, but not necessarily the bulk of users). A significantly larger number of users were uploading and downloading legitimate content.
For instance, there's a particular Portal 2 mod made by a fellow named Bananaurus Rex (one of the best Portal 2 players ever). It was uploaded to MegaUpload a long time ago, before I bought Portal 2. When I find his mod, Mega had already been taken down.
A lot of XDA developers would also upload their ROMs to Mega.
Mega was preferred over many other file lockers because they don't require CAPTCHAs in order to download files.
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Another Pre-Empt...
-LOL, ROFL, OMG
-followed by an accusation with a synonym of hilarity (i.e. "You guys are too funny," "Yur funneh")
-spam link to that blog it won't shut up about.
That pretty much cover it?
I mean, other than the usual "Masnick's Blackbeard, Leigh is Freetard Smee" line of thinking.
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Rogue
When the US government or its corporate overlords want something, democracy and the rule of law go out the window...the problem is that now the whole world is watching this corruption of values and ideals.
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Re: Rogue
oh and the sheep and shills, they'll have their part to
Which came first, the sheep or the shill
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incovenient for elections?
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"Spring" of 2013?
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Re: "Spring" of 2013?
*I'll be here for ages*
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Seems these delays are as much the doings of his own legal team and attempts to try to avoid extradition. Self inflicted wounds, if you ask me.
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Really? You'd let yourself be effectively kidnapped and taken to another country to face charges under their legal system in the hopes that you'd get a fair trial, even though the people trying to take you refuse to even let you see the evidence they're using against you?
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And I'd be willing to bet the US would oppose bail, too. You know, what with being a foreigner with significant resources (allegedly) and thus a flight risk ...
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It worked out for Chief O'Brien, I can't think of a reason it wouldn't work out for Kim Dotcom. ;)
After all, it is the Cardassian way, and we must respect their laws.
Cardassian: The justice system
Cardassian justice is swift and effective. The legal system both protects the Cardassian populace and shows them clearly that they are being protected. To Federation observers the system seems harsh and unfair because the accused is not permitted a defense and there is a significant possibility that innocent men and women might be punished. But to the Cardassians, the fate of a few innocents matters little when compared to justice for the Cardassian State and its people.
The Cardassians boast that they have the most efficient criminal investigation system in the quadrant. Investigators have broad powers under Cardassian law, including torture. The DNA records of all Cardassians citizens are a powerful tool during an investigation. The Cardassian authorities even allow investigators to cross the borders of foreign powers to apprehend suspects.
When a suspect is arrested he is told, "You have the right to refuse to answer questions although such a refusal may be construed as a sign of guilt." A suspect may be interrogated or tortured to establish his guilt. Once a convincing case has been made against the suspect, he is imprisoned to await trial. He is no longer considered a suspect; he is now an offender.
The trial of an offender serves two purposes - to demonstrate the futility of behavior contrary to good order and to assure the Cardassian people that criminals are caught and punished. To facilitate this, trials are broadcast across Cardassia. Trials usually last less than a single day, to ensure that they are compelling viewing.
An Archon presides over a Cardassian court. She is both the judge and prosecutor. A Public Conservator represents the offender. The Conservator may point out flaws in the Archon's case but he may not call witnesses nor bring new evidence. Conservators have occasionally won a case, but this incurs the wrath of the Cardassian legal authorities. The offender is permitted a single Nestor, an advisor appointed by the court. There is no public gallery, but the family of an offender is expected to attend in order that the Cardassian people may see them weep.
A trial begins with a declaration of the charges against the offender and the sentence he is to receive. The trial only shows how the offender was found to be guilty. Witnesses are called and evidence is presented to prove the Archon's case. The Conservator may submit no evidence. The spouse of the offender is given the chance to testify against him so as to distance herself from his disgrace. The final testimony comes from the offender himself. He is compelled to testify. There is no right to silence under Cardassian jurisprudence.
At the end of the trial, after the Archon sums up her case, the offender is expected to concede to the wisdom of the state and accept his sentence with equanimity. The Conservator will counsel him to express remorse for his actions. The offender is lead away to begin his sentence immediately. Executions are carried out within days if the sentence is death.
Military and political prisoners are often submitted to the same trial procedure. Such a prisoner may be offered a lenient sentence if he agrees to confess all his crimes during a trial. When the only alternative to accepting such humiliation is further torture, a prisoner might easily succumb. When the Cardassian populace see a Federation officer confess to war crimes against Cardassian soldiers or a leading dissident admit to crimes against the State, they will be certain of the absolute superiority of the Cardassian way.
With every new law "they" pass, we are getting closer and closer to this type of "system" all over the world ... in order to "protect us", of course.
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I agree, it's not like innocent people are ever found guilty in the USA, or that the USG ever incarcerates people after knowing they have been found innocent, or that the law was unconstitutional or scrapped.
If you don't already understand I am being highly sarcastic here towards your ill informed opinion. Though who knows in your universe of Rainbow pooping unicorns and other hugfests you might be correct.
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Glad to see you (and people like Paul) have such closed minds. If they are fighting extradition, and asking for all sorts of things, and as a result there are delays, don't you think it's a self inflicted wound, and something that Kim shouldn't be bitching about? It's called due process, and if he wants all the process that is due, it takes time. The real world does not work at Internet speed.
If he is innocent, or feels he can beat the charges, he would be better to fight the charges directly in the US than he is to spend a year or two fighting extradition. Win or lose on extradition, his site will remain down and gone, because it's held as a result of charges in the US. He will have to face the music at some point.
So why not cut to the chase, go willingly to the US, and then work it from there?
Perhaps he is going to join Julian Assange hiding out in a Ecuadorian embassy seeking asylum because he is so innocent. Assange looks as guilty as they come right now, and Kim fighting extradition (and then moaning about how long it takes) makes him look rather too guilty as well in my eyes.
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...
...
what the fuck kind of moron are you?
seriously, have you not been WATCHING the actions of the US government for the last few years?
you know, the part where they're not above torturing their OWN CITIZENS without trial?
ANYONE with a brain would fight extradition to the US. guilty or innocent.
Hell, were i innocent and the government apparently keen on sending me there to face charges for things that didn't even happen and/or weren't illegal anyway, i'd be starting a bloody Rebellion had i the resources. I'd have better odds of surviving the experience with my life, liberty, livelihood and property intact.
(think this is hyperbole? might be, might be not. sure as hell isn't anywhere near as much so as it looks at first glance though.)
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If I had to guess, AC is not only an American, but one that trust Faux News is "fair and balanced". Those sorts seem to be under the impression that the US is not only the greatest nation on Earth, but will be great once again if we just scrap public rights and let corporations have free reign.
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/sarcasm
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No. There are no guarantees he will get a fair trial. There are no guarantees he will get a speedy trial (and thus potentially faces years in a foreign jail before he even gets a chance to defend himself). There are no guarantees he won't be bankrupted by his defence under US laws even if he is found not guilty.
"If he is innocent, or feels he can beat the charges, he would be better to fight the charges directly in the US than he is to spend a year or two fighting extradition."
Not if his fight is successful. The case against MU is already weak, one-sided and littered with procedural mistakes and injustices. Why should he blindly assume that everything will suddenly be OK if he agrees to be extradited? Evidence so far is that the US has no problem trampling over his rights and even breaking their own rules so long as a conviction is guaranteed. Not the sort of system you'd want to blindly trust.
"Win or lose on extradition, his site will remain down and gone, because it's held as a result of charges in the US."
Which is a disgusting abuse of power on its own, with highly suspicious motivations.
"So why not cut to the chase, go willingly to the US, and then work it from there?"
Because he doesn't trust the US. Would you blindly trust extradition if it were the other way round, or do you simply assume the extradition is just because the US is the one doing it?
"Perhaps he is going to join Julian Assange hiding out in a Ecuadorian embassy seeking asylum because he is so innocent."
People claim asylum to escape persecution. If he feels he's being persecuted, why not?
"Assange looks as guilty as they come right now"
To some. To others, he appears to be someone hiding from persecution by a foreign government. If you presume one but don't admit the other is possible, you might already have made up your mind before he was granted a fair trial - exactly the sort of problem Dotcom is trying to avoid. But, he deserves his day in a fair court, not the kangaroo court that likely awaits in the US if he's extradited at the behest of private corporate interests.
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The two women involved have NOT filed charges. They only wanted Julian to be tested for STDs. This is all one bitch assed prosecutor taking this sexual conflict and attacking Julian with it on behalf of the United States.
We may recall Wikileaks published diplomatic cables shortly before and the United States attacked WikiLeaks including having all their payment sources shut down.
So this case is nothing more than a political attack where shipped off to the USA is a valid concern.
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They raided TPB on demands from the cartels and pressure that the US would take its trade and leave. So they raided. They had to return the site because no Swedish laws had been broken by TPB, but had been broken by the Government.
Some congresscritters called for Assange to be put to death, would you go to a country more likely than not to just let the US grab you and take you away?
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If you are innocent, what do you have to worry?
Yeah, there probably is not a treaty - but that is hardly the point is it.
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If we put it to a vote, which would you extradited to the US or Iran which would win?
reddit time for that question:)
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Actually, boy, the US wanted him extradited as quickly as possible.
When it turned out they'd have to PROVE to the NZ judiciary they have actual evidence against Dotcom, they freaked out and began this stalling tactic to avoid showing they have NOTHING!
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/9388323/Kim-Dotcoms-extradition-delayed.html
By the way, you are fast becoming my favorite buffoon on the site. Keep up the good work.
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Dotcom's lawyers agreed to the delay because the US will be appealing the NZ court order that they return the copies of his hard drives and the other evidence against him. You know, so he can see the evidence against him and mount a proper defense against the extradition... Your level of acceptance towards willful ignorance simply to throw an ad-hom is astounding.
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You should probably wait until someone post about why his lawyers agreed to the delay before taking up the argument. It makes you look stupider, if that's possible.
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So the delay which Dotcom's lawyers agreed to will be appealed further, which they don't want.
By the way, it's better to be a douchnozzle than a douchbag, douchebag.
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Hey, hey...
Ever hear of the bill of rights?
Ever hear of the amendment that...
"The rights of the accused include the ability to have a speedy trial."
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Ever hear of the bill of rights?
Ever hear of the amendment that...
"The rights of the accused include the ability to have a speedy trial.
Does any of that apply in New Zealand?
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It applies to the actions of the US government, regardless of what nations those actions take place in or the nationality of the targets of those actions.
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And you can be sure the US government isn't happy about that one bit.
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So Yes, it does apply in New Zealand.
Also the USG has to abide by the US Constitution and all doctrines of law that they are bound by within US Jurisdiction since they are wanting to extradite and charge under US Articles of law.
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According to Sharia Law you are probably as guilty as they come right now. So lets extradite you Afghanistan and let the Taliban give you due process by stone and send parts of your dismembered corpse around the country.
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Things like the evidence against him?
Things like a lawyer (whom DotCom would pay) who the government is afraid to allow into the proceedings?
Things like that, boy?
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For the same reason US air marshals flee from Brazil.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/10/21/us.brazil.air.marshals/index.html?eref=mrss_ igoogle_cnn
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Nobody does, and rightly so giving your tortured logic.
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Love your logic there AC.
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Maybe because he, and everyone else in the world can see that the US doesn't give 2 shits about whether or not what he was doing was legal, and they don't care about following their own laws in going after him, so why would he expect to find a fair trial once here?
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If he is guilty, why would the US seek to have the evidence destroyed?
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Me either. And I am a US citizen.
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You were saying uninformed shill?
I mean its not like they US took all of his funds, and then made sure that he was unable to hire the best lawyers, and has been meddling in the process making laws up as they go the entire time.
Not even sure how a case against Mega can go forward as they have yet to serve the company they seek to sue... oh thats right they can't serve a foriegn entity.
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FTFY (added quotes). Due Process is not a luxury.
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This doesn't take into account the collateral damage. There are hundreds/thousands of (legitimate!) small businesses depending on Megaupload who have been destroyed. There are a few other online storage sites who have been scared by this and shut themselves down. This in turn also effects other online businesses who were then forced to scramble to find a new online storage provider...
This has been an unmitigated disaster. Utterly unconscionable.
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Grand total = $1.34217728 � 10^15, so roughly around a quadrillion dollars.
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as long as he didn't mind waiting to be paid. i'm sure it would be similar to the wait the entertainment industries own artists have to endure
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A wait caused entirely by the actions, or inactions, of said entertainment industries. However, I suspect that if he was to win a court case against the USG or the entertainment industries, then his wait would take precedence and thus he would be paid before said artists, unless they have also sued and were able to obtain judgement against the entertainment industry first, at which point they would be paid first so long as said industry didn't funnel it out of the country to off-shore bank accounts and holdings and then promptly declare bankruptcy and solvency (which I suspect they would be evil enough to do just to spite said artists and Dotcom.)
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I'm not actually a lawyer or anything, so there's probably some way around that when the courts are involved, but that's the outcome for people who run out of money here (as private citizens.)
something the current government here Cannot afford to have happen, just by the by, given their constant hate campaign against people who have ended up on the various assistance programs...
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Irony?
When they get back from summer recess, SCOTUS is also likely to issue an opinion in Kiobel v. Royal Dutch Petroleum. The issue at hand is whether someone can file suit in the US against a corporation who allegedly caused horrible acts of torture, rape, and murder in Nigeria. Given their previous ruling in Mohamad, SCOTUS is likely to uphold the Second Circuit, and again say that it's not possible to sue corporations for causing hideous violations of human rights in another country.
So here's what gets me: copyright infringement is a tort, just like defamation or fraud. You can also file torts for intentional harm, up to and including torturing someone to death. Personally, I consider human rights violations to be a lot more serious than copyright infringement. But given that SCOTUS just ruled that you can't file suit against a foreign organization for kidnapping someone and torturing them to death... how, exactly, does the Department of Justice think it's kosher to go after the MegaUpload corporation for hosting infringing content?
---
Disclaimer: IANAL
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OK, the fun part.
Im sorry,
this just reminds me of MY OWN conspiracy theory..
that SOME ONE/GROUP is trying to BREAK the USA economy by HAVING our gov agencies do STUPID THINGS.. then get Sued for MILLIONS.
Iv seen it in LOCAL gov. and regional, and Federal...
A cop does something STUPID, and the Town/city is held liable.. NOT THE COP. he gets fired.
A city gov, uses money for STUPID things, gets caught...and only fingers get slapped and they are fired...
NO one(not many) go after the persons RESPONSIBLE...
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Re: OK, the fun part.
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Nothing to see here folks! No reason at all to think that Mikey loves piracy. None at all.
Couldn't be a more transparent douchebag if he tried.
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Little late to the party, aren't you slick?
If by transparent douchebag you are refering only to yourself, then we all agree!
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Has llortotevoli forgotten to sign-in?
I'm clicking funny just in case...
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You heard it here first folks: defending yourself in court is now just a delaying tactic.
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The US is delaying by blocking their attempts to prepare for a fair hearing, and appealing the court's ruling that basically tells them to stop that and disclose already.
Disclosure is a necessity of a fair hearing, traditional, legislatively required and entirely mundane and ordinary in both NZ and US courts.
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Besides, it's just a matter of time before some other service will fill the gap and all the independent artists will jump on it.
I aLso think that those indie artists are a very important reason why Mega had to go because the industry doesn't like that kind of competition. too disruptive.
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I would get serious schadenfreude from the stress caused to the RIAA and MPAA. I think I will tweet him and ask if he would be up for it.
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ok rant over
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MegaBox needs to be a one stop global shop for music. Streaming and licencing for streaming, buying music, booking bands, tickets, promotion, contests, games, social media, movie rights, tracing who owns the copyright, artists payments, all need to be in one place. Doing this simplifies things for artists, creates transparency, and removes the complexity and pyramid of costs from the record labels.
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That's odd, why did his lawyers agree to the postponement?
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Who said they "agreed", boy?
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The Telegraph, among others, boy.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/9388323/Kim-Dotcoms-extradition-delayed.html
Oh look, you have shit on your face..... again.
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The Telegraph, among others, boy."
Agreeing to something to avoid an even worse fate is not agreement.
Ask your mother to explain why she had you.
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Yes, there was a reason. None of these services hired name recognition "muscle" and were preparing to launch a directly competing service to the major labels (and later studios). Given they hadn't been able to get Megaupload ruled illegal and Dotcom had the pockets to fend off a civil lawsuit without going bankrupt the way Veoh did, this was the only way they had of blocking serious potential competition.
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What service has the label/studios provided to compete directly with Megaupload or any of the other services like Veoh, Napster, etc.?
I'm still waiting for them to provide access to the entire catalog of works, for a fair price, and which doesn't saddle the user with a locked-in operating system or provider. If I want to reboot my system and install Windows (god forbid,) I still should get access to the stuff I bought. Likewise if I want to switch from Ting to Verizon (again, god forbid.) All the labels/studios have provided is crap that doesn't work if you change operating systems or providers, or happen to want music or movies from a back catalog or from a provider that isn't "part" of their network.
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Help me out here.
The court of public opinion states strongly that the copyright cartel's popularity is at an all-time low and that their every action drives it lower. So @#$% what if they kill Megaupload? There will be more. Eventually, the copyright cartel will lose. The current generation has near zero respect for the copyright cartel and even people of older generations hate them more every day.
It seems they just want to die sooner - that's what their actions say.
To the copyright cartel: You are making the hatred against you grow massively every single day. You'll be dead soon.
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Re: Help me out here.
"The Amazing Spider-Man" has racked up $140 million in a week.
"Ted" is up to $120 million in two weeks.
This country might hate the copyright cartels, but it sure hasn't stopped feeding it, has it?
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Re: Re: Help me out here.
And it can be difficult. I've tried to talk to people like this before, and often get waved off because I'm "too concerned about things I can't change" or because "there's no sense worrying about stuff that the government will take care of". The types of people I'm talking about are mostly simple people. If it doesn't happen right outside their front door, it might as well not exist. But when it happens right outside their door, they will no longer be in a position to do anything about it.
Just one large scale year-long boycott of all MAFIAA entertainment would probably put a huge dent in their ability to buy legislation, but it feels like too many people can't or won't engage in that kind of long term thinking.
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Re: Re: Help me out here.
Changes are happening, but they're slow going. Remember, you seem to be looking at US domestic theatrical grosses - a market very biased toward whatever the majors are pushing. There's a lot of markets where you can't even see a non-Hollywood movie at the cinema so they won't be counted in those figures when the DVD's available. What's actually happening here is that the industry's own figures are showing what a pile of bullshit the "lost sales" argument is from piracy, and it's notable that films like Ted can be big box office successes if they're good quality (Ted is form a TV director who works primarily in animation, not based on a previous product and is R-rated - all warning signs for tradition industry thinking, but it's a success.). There seems to be a trend this year - well reviewed/liked movies getting high revenues while mediocre prefabricated blockbusters aren't getting the same traction.
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Re: Help me out here.
I need a new Pool..............
/P for parody
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No parody here.
Sorry, I can't write any more tales for the children - I'm too busy pissing myself laughing.
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Ok, but who pays for this?
It's a serious question, it freaks me out that the gov can just shut you down and fuck you up but walk away with "yeah, sorry, our bad".
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Re: Ok, but who pays for this?
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Re:
*snaps out of spell*
OK, my head is focus now. Now if this was true... then this is going to be over in minutes. Otherwise, there's no way that von Karma's in charge of this. After all, his first lost has to come in 2016. ... I think.
Just tell me if there's a parrot involve, then I'm REALLY interested!
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14+ months later
Dealing with the good news first then at least the NZ Justice system is granting Kim a good appeal instead of just rubber stamping the forms and shipping him off. This is not so much of a surprise though due to the total shit-assed job the DoJ and FBI are making.
The bad news here is that every DMCA safe-harbour company that deals with user upload and infringement, namely billions of dollars of business, certainly wants a clarification about what the fuck is going on here? So one can hope the NZ Justice system can give this case some priority to clarify if Mega seems to have done anything wrong from the EVIDENCE that the United States is STALLING ON.
Then we do need to give Kim Dotcom, his family, and all the people who worked for him a humanitarian overview. The Mega Corporation was shut down on January 19 including MegaUpload, MegaPix, MegaLive, MegaBox, MegaPorn and MegaVideo. All assets have been seized including the car belonging to Kim's mother and even the bank account of Kim's bodyguard has been frozen. So since this first stage is going to last over a year then they need to make sure all people have their needs met and are comfortable.
As to Mega then I am very concerned that this business may never be the same again. I well know that when you are the market leader it is sure a long way to fall when you get pushed. His rivals have already moved in and taken up the trade once taken by Mega. While us supporters will welcome the Mega return the general market would have well moved on to have their needs met by others and to become loyal to such services.
So it is very true that the DoJ and FBI have already done what they intended which was to destroy Mega as best they could. This is the way copyright protection always works which is to "abuse the law" to cause as much harm to their enemies as is possible.
As pointed out some real Justice would have been to take Mega to civil court first. Then they can find out if Mega has broke DMCA law and if further serious charges should be filed. It is obviously invalid to shut down a business who intends to follow the known law even if they have been stupid, reckless or careless. Like the banks have screwed up over the libor rate and even if some people end up in jail you don't shut down the banks.
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Re: 14+ months later
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And coming from an American, I would fight tooth and fucking nail against extradition to the United States. I would fight tooth and nail against extradition to ANY country, because I wouldn't have a hope in hell of recieving a fair trial in a foreign court.
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Re:
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Long Live Kim Dotcom !
My US Government can go to hell.
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Thanks a lot DOJ
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Re: Thanks a lot DOJ
https://www.dropbox.com/help/16/en
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Looks like Dotcom isn't going to wait...
That said, it may be a ballsy move, but we all know how the US is willing to cry "terrorist" as soon as he and his team sets foot in the United States.
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