Judge Orders Woman To Delete Her Facebook Page For Typing LOL About Her DUI
from the extreme-measures dept
This one is from a week ago, and a bunch of you submitted it (thoughTim K gets the hat tip for being first), but just getting around to it now. Apparently, a woman named Paula Asher, who hit a car while driving under the influence, was ordered by the judge in the case to delete her Facebook account, after she typed the following status message on her Facebook page:"My dumb bass got a DUI and I hit a car...LOL"The judge seemed to take the "LOL" statement literally -- that she was "laughing out loud" at her drunk driving accident -- and ordered her to delete her Facebook account. She then ignored that order, leading to a contempt of court charge and jail time. I have no problem with her facing punishment for the drunk driving, but being told to delete her Facebook page seems extreme on a variety of levels. First, the literal interpretation of "LOL" is a bit unfair, considering in context how many people use the term today. Rather than literally meaning that they're "laughing out loud," it's often an expression of exasperation at a situation people find themselves in. Many people seem to use it more as punctuation to a statement they make, rather than as an accurate description of what they're doing.
But, even beyond that, it seems wrong to order the deletion of an entire Facebook account over one off-hand statement like that. Facebook had nothing to do with this woman's drunk driving -- which, again, she should be punished for. I could even see reason to up the level of punishment for potentially showing a lack of remorse or recognition of the seriousness of her crime. But forcing someone to delete their entire Facebook account, when it's a key way that many people communicate today, seems extreme. Facebook didn't make Asher drive drunk. Nor did it make her not show remorse afterward. Forcing her to shut it down completely seems to go beyond reasonable.
Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.
While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.
–The Techdirt Team
Filed Under: dui, lol, social networking
Companies: facebook
Reader Comments
The First Word
“This is why we have the ACLU
... and I look forward to watching them tear this up.The judge may impose a harsher sentence on her because she publicly expresses lack of remorse ... that's fair.
Does she has a First Amendment right to express a lack of remorse outside the courtroom? Dunno. I'm not a lawyer.
But even if you think she doesn't, she has a First Amendment right to all the posts she made on Facebook that were NOT "My dumb bass got a DUI and I hit a car...LOL"
A judge can punish you for wearing an offensive T-shirt in a courtroom ... but he may not order you to throw away all your T-shirts because you wore one to his court that was offensive.
Subscribe: RSS
View by: Time | Thread
Now personally I'm all for encouraging respect for criminal justice systems (and using Contempt of Court if needed), but somehow I don't think this is a way of achieving that. If someone is laughing off a criminal conviction, that suggests she isn't taking it seriously enough (and perhaps reflects a problem with sentencing), but shutting down a Facebook page seems more likely to decrease respect for the judicial system than improving it. It's almost as if the judge had no idea what he was talking about, but I'm sure you'd never have someone in power who was that much of a Luddite...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Mary Jane Phelps Chief Regional District Judge
130 Court St.
Versailles, KY 40383 Bourbon, Scott & Woodford (859) 879-9871 (Phone)
(859) 873-6222 (Fax) Dist. 14, Div. 01
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Walker v City of Birmingham
Compare with Mr Justice Stewart's opinion in Walker v City of Birmingham (1967)
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Walker v City of Birmingham
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Walker v City of Birmingham
Not much of a lawyer who can't argue the other side from time to time. Take a crack at distinguishing Walker, why don't you.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Walker v City of Birmingham
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Walker v City of Birmingham
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Walker v City of Birmingham
Really? At what point does the legal system become an abusive one?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Walker v City of Birmingham
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Walker v City of Birmingham
If the state has a compelling interest, for example someone who uses a telephone to phone in fake bomb threats or a computer to hack, a court could order someone not to use such a thing and have it stick.
But to muzzle someone for discussing their own case, with no judicial seal, and order them to destroy their means of communication in its entirety goes so far beyond reasonable it's astounding.
Yes the woman should have appealed in court rather than ignore the order, but at some point, an illegal order must become so absurd that nobody who belongs outside a secure mental ward would even think to obey it.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Walker v City of Birmingham
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Walker v City of Birmingham
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Walker v City of Birmingham
For example, one can be very obedient whilst quietly despising every little pos that crosses their path.
Respect is earned - no exceptions.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Walker v City of Birmingham
> the court order.
If the court's order is wrong, then it's not wrong to disobey it.
If the judge had ordered her to renounce her religion, would it be wrong to disobey it?
> But then again, clearly Mike has zero respect for our government.
Sure he does. He just doesn't have respect for power-tripping out of control judges.
I have to wonder, if she'd deleted her account, but then opened up a new one, would that have been contempt as well? Is she banned from using one of the most ubiquitous communication devices in modern society forever? Considering that she hadn't even been convicted of anything at the point she was ordered to delete her account, one has to ask, does this judge believe he has unlimited power over everyone who has a case before him; that the fact that a person has been charged with a crime in his court gives him the power to order them to do anything he likes?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Walker v City of Birmingham
This is basic stuff: United States v. Dickinson, 465 F.2d 496, 509 (5th Cir. La. 1972). Howat v. Kansas, 258 U.S. 181, 189-190 (U.S. 1922).
Are you sure you're a lawyer?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Walker v City of Birmingham
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Walker v City of Birmingham
Not that I expect you to actually see the issues behind this decision and her right to ignore it because you are a complete moron. But it's worth to highlight how much of a moron you are.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Walker v City of Birmingham
Did you read Walker v City of Birmingham? I provided a link to that case, in my initial post, above. Or was that Supreme Court case just “tl; dr” for you?
AJ, in his response to btr1701, quoted from the Fifth Circuit case of United States v Dickinson. He did not provide a hypertext link —perhaps he was being intentionally rude with that discourtesy.
Until now, I have not bothered to provide a courtesy link to Dickinson for a variety of reasons. Among those reasons, I did not want to distract people's attention from Walker v City of Birmingham. It is a famous case, and you should be exposed to it.
Further, although it is most irrelevant to this discussion, along with Walker, you should probably also read Dr Martin Luther King, Jr.'s “Letter From A Birmingham Jail”. Not only is Dr King's letter literature with which everyone American should have some passing familiarity, but it provides a little context in understanding the famous case of Walker v City of Birmingham.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Walker v City of Birmingham
Huh? He's a lawyer. I quoted the exact text and then gave him the pincite so he could check it out my claim for himself. I'm pretty sure a lawyer can find a Fifth Circuit opinion. To say that I was being "intentionally rude" because I did not provide a link is laughable. If my making a claim and backing it up with the exact text and cite of the text strikes you as "intentionally rude," I guess you think that 99.99999999999999% of people on the internet are "intentionally rude" who make claims but offer no text or cite to back them up.
You must REALLY think btr1701 is "intentionally rude" for making his silly claim that "If the court's order is wrong, then it's not wrong to disobey it." He provided no basis whatsoever for the claim. Funny how you don't call him "intentionally rude," but then you're giving me shit. It's almost like YOU'RE being "intentionally rude" to me with this. Give me a break. How many people even bother to cite text to back up their arguments?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Walker v City of Birmingham
The vast majority of Techdirt readers are not lawyers.
You must always remember that you are writing here for a general audience.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Walker v City of Birmingham
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Walker v City of Birmingham
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Walker v City of Birmingham
Go to http://scholar.google.com/
Input the case name (e.g., Sony v. Universal) or case citation (e.g., 464 U.S. 417) and then click on "Legal Documents"
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Walker v City of Birmingham
> then it's not wrong to disobey it."
There's a vast difference between 'illegal' and 'wrong'. You'd do well to figure it out.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Walker v City of Birmingham
Comply with the court order or appeal it.
(oh he really meant that? - is not a defense)
Separately, on the 1st amendment front - love the t-shirt metaphor someone posted.
Did anyone stop to think perhaps the judge meant "delete the post" (IMO, reasonable) rather than "delete the account"?
As someone who has helped Federal judges with technology (as well as plenty of friends over 40), I think folks need to consider the background of the judge before issuing a 1st Amendment rally cry.
Judges have broad discretion over sentencing in most states. IMO, requiring the removal of the *post* was reasonable. Either way - it was a court ruling and there is a process for contesting the ruling.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Walker v City of Birmingham
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Walker v City of Birmingham
Are you sure you know the difference between arguing what the law is and arguing that the law is *wrong*?
You seem to think that once a court rules on something the citizenry is not only obligated to follow it, but that it's improper for them to even criticize it or suggest that it ought to be otherwise.
But as long as you're making the case for blind obeisance to whatever order a court issues, why not answer the question you conveniently snipped in favor of cutting and pasting your Westlaw research:
If the judge had ordered her to renounce her religion, would it have been wrong for her to disobey?
Or to put it more generally, is there anything a court can order that is so outrageous that a citizen need not obey blindly or do judges literally have absolute power over you once you're caught in their web?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Walker v City of Birmingham
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
This is why we have the ACLU
The judge may impose a harsher sentence on her because she publicly expresses lack of remorse ... that's fair.
Does she has a First Amendment right to express a lack of remorse outside the courtroom? Dunno. I'm not a lawyer.
But even if you think she doesn't, she has a First Amendment right to all the posts she made on Facebook that were NOT "My dumb bass got a DUI and I hit a car...LOL"
A judge can punish you for wearing an offensive T-shirt in a courtroom ... but he may not order you to throw away all your T-shirts because you wore one to his court that was offensive.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Apologist
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Apologist
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Nigel
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Finally!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Finally!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
"The judge told me to delete my Facebook... WTF?"
"Judicial system meddling in my free speech... GTFO!"
"Judge tells my Facebook to STFU!"
"Contempt of court... FTW!"
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
"Judge, the Constitution of the United States of America guarantees the right to freedom of speech... RTFM!"
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
On the other hand...
She shouldn't lose her account over the LOL, but she should never see the driver's seat again. Imagine folks know she posted this, and next time she's out driving drunk she kills someone. What does she post then? ROFL? Or "(grin)"?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: On the other hand...
You buy ideas? Good one. LOL.
Imagine?
That's the fucking problem. Everyone is letting their imaginations take over the world. Boo! LOL.
I'd "imagine" that were she to drive drunk and kill somebody that she'd postscript with 'FML' but that's just my imagination going wild. Yours... not so wild. Oh and thanks for the Patriot Act. LOL.
This does strikes me as self-deprecating being that the content includes "my dumb ass" which is a pretty good indicator that self-deprecation was intended. One can and does LOL at ones self, after all. LOL.
Note the subtle (or not) differences between:
I am such a dumb ass ... LOL
You are such a dumb ass ... LOL
These could be, believe it or not, two very different types of laughter involved with those two statements although, admittedly, it's quite hard to differentiate intonation of some groupings of ascii characters. That does involve some level of effort for some folks. And you could always be wrong. As a side exercise see if you can guess the type of laughter in my previous examples. (hint: They're all different)
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: On the other hand...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: On the other hand...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Childish
Facebook is far from a necessity. Were she respectful of the law, she would have immediately deactivated her account, then written a letter to the judge to apologize and ask if he or she would permit her to reactivate. it after a reasonable interval.
Judges are people, and I bet this judge would have permitted it.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Childish
Also far from being a necessity: your appendix. Perhaps the judge should have asked her to have it removed as well?
Judges are people, and it looks like he let his initial human reaction to her Facebook post bother him enough to make a rather irrelevant demand. He should apologize for asking her to remove her entire Facebook account where she communicates with friends, family, and maybe even her business. And then, of course, sentenced her appropriately (jail, fine, license suspension, community service) for the circumstances related to her DUI.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Childish
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Childish
this is where u made ur mistake, the law is stupid an corrupt and turns violent at a drop of a hat, it shouldnt be respected
otherwise asking for a lawyer makes u guilty cause u dont respect dem cops enough
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Childish
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
There's the fucking understatement of the day.
Humans are neat, most can reason. It's when said reasoning becomes an imposed one based on nothing more than "I can and therefore.." Insanity.
Facebook account. Drunk driving. Delete. Uh. Yeah. Sure. Whatever.
The judge is a cunt. The law is getting more and more cunty every day. When you are not free from the law because the law has become your freedom - literally - then what is the point?
What I mean is at which point do we try and regain the street cred that should go along with freedom?
Delete your facebook account. Un-fucking-real. Kinda like AJ.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Seems unusual
Once again, the biggest "cyberthreat" to us all is the technological cluelessness of our elected officials.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
back to myspace
She did not need to permanently delete her account for the rest of her life.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: back to myspace
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: back to myspace
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
If other entities are allowed to parody life situations where no one is injured (TV comedians for example), why not the offender? Her comments were made to her clique, not the victims.
I guess the Judge wants her to go into a state of deep depression as punishment. (Ugh, I am so depressed, now I must pay $2000 for therapy sessions or jump off a cliff). If you can't eventually make light of life situations, then what's the point. It doesn't mean you're going to repeat the offense again.
I salute her for not being diligent in closing the FB account. I'd probably have obeyed the order as much as I would had the judge ordered me to blink exactly 1895 times in the next 24 hours.
If everyone through the dawn of history obeyed judicial orders, we'd all have as much rights as an amoeba.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Stupid is
If not, then she's stupid and deserves what she gets.
If so,then the lawyer is stupid and she deserve better representation.
She's also stupid for thinking that the judge would not see her Facebook page...
She's also stupid for posting on her Facebook page during an ongoing court case.
And Finally...She's really, REALLY STUPID for for drinking and driving!
All in all...She's really stupid!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Judges..
Why would anyone be surprised?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Legislating from the bench
[ link to this | view in chronology ]