Report Suggests Obama May Take Drones Away From The CIA

Will People Trust Google's New 'Note' Keeping Service After Reader Shutdown?

from the not-sure-i-will dept

Wed, Mar 20th 2013 8:02pm — Mike Masnick

Interesting bit of timing here, as Google has announced a new service called Google Keep, which is a way of taking and keeping track of personal notes for your own use. It's basically an Evernote competitor. I use a variety of Google products, and normally, this might interest me, but I'm seriously having doubts about bothering, following the abrupt shutdown of Google Reader. Is it worth entrusting data to a service that might be killed abruptly? It seems fairly bizarre to violate users' trust so much, and then days later ask for it right back. Obviously, this doesn't apply to all services -- but something that may become integral to the way someone works is something that people need to have confidence will remain in business for a while. In the past, people assumed that Google products would do stay around because it's "Google and Google is so big." But, with their recent actions, they've now definitely raised serious questions. And, a quick look around Twitter shows that I'm not alone in asking this question. Almost everyone talking about this new service is asking why should we trust it not to be shut down. Google may have thought they were just killing off one product, but the ripple effects from shutting down Google Reader continue to spread.

Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.

Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.

While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.

–The Techdirt Team

Filed Under: google keep, google reader, shut downs, user trust
Companies: google

95 Comments

If you liked this post, you may also be interested in...

Reader Comments

Subscribe: RSS

View by: Time | Thread

sdf, 20 Mar 2013 @ 8:15pm

Remember google notebook
I started using google notebook a number of years ago. It wasn't the best, but it worked well enough for my purposes, and it was very convenient for me. Then they shut it down.

It was the first time I had been really affected by a cloud service being discontinued. After that, I would be hesitant to trust them with my notes again.

It is possible that google keep will become just the bestest service ever, but I doubt I will move back to it. With their history, plus robust competition from evernote and onenote, I can't see their service taking off.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Jeff Greco, 20 Mar 2013 @ 8:24pm

I'm mourning the oncoming loss of Reader as much as the next guy
Give Google credit where credit's due: they are the most transparent company on the web in terms of giving you ways of pulling your data out of their services at any point. Look at how trivial it's been to transfer your Google Reader subscriptions to any number of competing services. I'd sooner trust any Google service over a random startup.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Jbs, 20 Mar 2013 @ 8:40pm

GReader
If GReader was little used enough that Google didn't think it was worth keeping, then the people who won't trust Google anymore are perhaps not numerous enough to tank the new service. If you don't trust a company that cancels a product, well, is there any company that's never done that? Maybe a brand new one.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
vegetaman (profile), 20 Mar 2013 @ 8:43pm

If they ever discontinue google sites, then I will really be sad. I've spent a good deal of time putting content on there.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Wally (profile), 20 Mar 2013 @ 8:48pm

Customer Service Comparison gpoing beyond web services.
Android Customer:
*Presents Google with a broken Android firmware on a mobile device*

Google:
Not our problem, send your device to the manufacturer of your mobile device to have your firmware fixed.

Meanwhile in iOS "Fanboy" land....

Apple Customer:
*Presented with Broken firmware on a mobile Device in an Apple Store*

Apple:
Oh no problem, we will fix that for you right now. Would you like us to back up the apps on your device? We will do our best to solve the problem you have with the device. Here's a card, come back in a day or two ^_^
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Wally (profile), 20 Mar 2013 @ 9:12pm

Re: I'm mourning the oncoming loss of Reader as much as the next guy
"Give Google credit where credit's due: they are the most transparent company on the web in terms of giving you ways of pulling your data out of their services at any point."

I personally find that statement a bit ironic considering that Google owns DoubleClick and acquired 8 others to cram into AdSense and AdWords. They also own AdMob.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Killercool (profile), 20 Mar 2013 @ 9:15pm

Re: Customer Service Comparison gpoing beyond web services.
Android Customer:
*uses Google to find out how to click "update firmware" in menu. Also finds out how to reinstall firmware manually.*
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Wally (profile), 20 Mar 2013 @ 9:16pm

" Is it worth entrusting data to a service that might be killed abruptly?"

This isn't new. My first hint of this was Google's acquisition of YouTube...most of the user data that had been on Google Video were never transferred to YouTube...unless you count user names and passwords.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 20 Mar 2013 @ 9:26pm

Re: Customer Service Comparison gpoing beyond web services.
Of course Apple wants to fix it for the iOS "Fanboy." Apple treats its customers like children who need their toys fixed for them and their user experiences dictated to them because they're not smart or mature enough to handle customizing their own experience.

I've been an Android user for years. I just recently got an iPad from work (because the hardware guy is an Apple fan and Android isn't supported or purchased by the company). I went to configure some useful widgets on my iPad screen only to find out that Apple doesn't natively support iOS widgets and you have to jailbreak to get any widgets, useful or otherwise, on your screen...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 20 Mar 2013 @ 9:27pm

Re: Customer Service Comparison gpoing beyond web services.
Just make sure not to use Apple Maps to get to your Apple Store in the Big Apple to restore your Apple firmware on your Apple device by an Apple CSR.
Apple Apple Apple Apple.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
jupiterkansas (profile), 20 Mar 2013 @ 9:47pm

I'd hardly call a three month warning abrupt. Plenty of time to move things to another service.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
derek, 20 Mar 2013 @ 10:37pm

Re: Remember google notebook
I too was a Notebook user. While the Reader shutdown is getting all the attention, a more interesting angle on this story might be that Keep looks to be the resurrection of a product Google has already killed.

I can't stop laughing at Google. When they closed Notebook, a lot of people wound up on Evernote. Since then, Evernote's grown quite substantially. Now Google's rolling out an Evernote alternative.

Google owes me nothing. But they're not going to fool me twice.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Wally (profile), 20 Mar 2013 @ 10:39pm

Re: Re: Customer Service Comparison gpoing beyond web services.
Touch� :-)

Android Customer
*Struggling to find a signal on an AT&T carrier in the middle of downtown Manhatten, gives up and figures out how to set up and annoyingly complex AdHoc mode WiFi network setup just to get a firmware update*

;-)

Meanwhile...
iOS customer with the same cellular carrier issue:
*Simply connects iPhone to his PC which is runing iTunes and clicks on "Sync" and hits play at Mozart's Symphony #40 in G Minor, K 550 - 1. Molto Allegro in iTunes on the PC to not only fix the firmware or update to newer versions of iOS, but to do other tasks as his device syncs...while listening to Mozart and imagining being a director on a podium as the London Symphony Orchestra plays the song you just selected*

;-P
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Wally (profile), 20 Mar 2013 @ 10:41pm

Re: Re: Customer Service Comparison gpoing beyond web services.
http://www.i-novation.de/37-1-Widgets-for-iPad-iPad-App.html

Have fun and stay cool ;-)
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 20 Mar 2013 @ 10:50pm

I don't care what service they provide or what guarantees they back it up with. I won't be happy until the decision to discontinue iGoogle is reversed.
So...pretty much never.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
G Thompson (profile), 20 Mar 2013 @ 11:41pm

Re: Re: Re: Customer Service Comparison gpoing beyond web services.
*facepalms hard*

Meanwhile Aussie consumers (and most of EU too):
* unlocks Apple/Android device any time they want no matter what.
* roots Apple/Android device any time they want legally
* gets Apple to honour the Australian Consumer & Competition Act by changing there warranty particulars as the law states (though they refuse to allow there employees to talk about it - WTF!!!!)
* Has ability to use multi-Sim devices
* has amazing mobile/cellular service to 96% of country and huge 4G usage in major CBD's
* Would rather listen to AC/DC or the Angels or Jimmy Barns (this is for Aussies anyway)
* Can pay $30 for a month of unlimited calls to mobiles (on same carrier) and unlimited SMS's to anyone (and never charged for receiving) and 6gig of data without being in a 'plan' contract (ie: pre-paid only)
* Doesn't care about the Apple/Android debate/hype and thinks if it works, does what they want and is cheap they will use it.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Scote, 21 Mar 2013 @ 12:01am

Don't worry...
Don't worry, Google won't kill Keep until they have killed Evernote. Google isn't quite Microsoft but it can do a pretty good imitation of Microsoft's "embrace, extend, extinguish."
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 21 Mar 2013 @ 12:26am

Re: Re: Re: Customer Service Comparison gpoing beyond web services.
I'm still not seeing a non-jailbroken version of any widget apps. There's a rumor that Apple will support them in the next version of the OS, but my iPad is a company device and I can't jailbreak it. Apple should support widgets natively or else they're just as bad as Microsoft with Windows 8 - making a product with a deficient user interface that creates demand from third party companies to actually give customers what they wanted natively in the OS.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
G Thompson (profile), 21 Mar 2013 @ 12:32am

For google to compete with note/idea/paper keeping for me they would have to not just replace Evernote but also Zotero, Biblioscape, TreeDBNotes (I recommend this to anyone) and my best 'keep' tool - my handy and physical notebook/filofax

Yes I know pen/pencil and paper.. antiquated but still works for me.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Daniel (profile), 21 Mar 2013 @ 12:39am

Re: I'm mourning the oncoming loss of Reader as much as the next guy
I'd have to agree. I'd also have to agree with them shutting it down... not because I didn't use Google Reader, but because they put practically no effort into it. There was no solid API and it was full of bugs after their latest update to it. If they weren't going to put the effort in then I would rather them kill it and let everyone move on to another service that actually get's actively updated. Google makes this simple by letting you easily export your data, and other services have quickly taken advantage of this... so this whole "cloud service shutdown" crap is over-exaggerated. Now, if it was cut off randomly with no warning, kinda like Megaupload, then yeah I'd fully understand.

This doesn't just apply to Google... but any cloud service. As long as they provide you with a way out and (if applicable) a refund, then it's not something to freak out about.

It's time for a JSON version of RSS/Atom feeds anyway. Can't stand XML... JSON is easier to parse, easier to read, smaller in size, and faster.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
That Anonymous Coward (profile), 21 Mar 2013 @ 2:50am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Customer Service Comparison gpoing beyond web services.
You you you you must be from one of those weirdo upside down places!!!!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 21 Mar 2013 @ 3:01am

Re: Customer Service Comparison gpoing beyond web services.
Comparison FAIL

Apple builds the hardware and the software.

Google makes the software, not the hardware.

Apples does provide good hardware and software for people who have a hard time making choices. For example you do not have to pick what browser is your default, Apple chooses that for you.

Glad you love your walled garden and lack of choices, next time you decide to make comparisons please take the time to make valid comparisons.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 21 Mar 2013 @ 3:07am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Customer Service Comparison gpoing beyond web services.
Widgets are too complex of an idea for Apple customers. Apple users enjoy not having to make decisions.

Their brains might implode if they could pick a different default browser, or associate a different reader with pdf files.

Could you imagine what might happen if they were able to put dynamic content where plain old icons are expected? It would be too overwhelming for their simple minds.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 21 Mar 2013 @ 3:12am

Re:
iGoogle is going away, move over to netvibes.

Google apparently did not like having my eyeballs planted on their property every time I clicked the home icon.

I predict that after all the iGoogle and reader users end up on netvibes that google will purchase netvibes to get those users back.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Akari Mizunashi (profile), 21 Mar 2013 @ 3:32am

Reader isn't the only thing Google has shut down over the past few years. As other comments noted (hey... a pun!), Notebook was also removed.

So was "my Google", which allowed us "apps" on our own custom home page.

No, I do not trust this or any other service by Google.

If I can't store it locally to my machine, I don't use it.

This doesn't apply to just Google, but any "cloud" service.

To me, "cloud" is just a synonym for "DRM".

What difference does it make if it's lost in time.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 21 Mar 2013 @ 3:40am

The hazards of dynamic DNS on domestic connections, it is difficult to run ones own servers. Manually syncing machines is awkward, and using an cloud provider risks losing the service and possibly the data.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Mr. Applegate, 21 Mar 2013 @ 4:05am

Re: Re: I'm mourning the oncoming loss of Reader as much as the next guy
"This doesn't just apply to Google... but any cloud service. As long as they provide you with a way out and (if applicable) a refund, then it's not something to freak out about."Maybe not "Freak Out" as you say, but it certainly is upsetting. Google is the king of start it and kill it. Sure, they are in business to make money, and since they don't charge end users for most services, we can't get too upset when they change things.

But wait, what lesson is learned here? Cloud Services have a MAJOR FLAW. They can be turned off at the whim of whomever is offering them. This isn't just a Google problem, this is a Cloud problem.

For me, the lesson was clear: "Don't depend on Cloud Services!". Message received, and understood. Of course, I have never fully embraced "The Cloud", especially for anything I really care about. Is it a killer for me, no I will survive. However, it does re-enforce the notion that Cloud Services are not the right answer for anything that you care about.

I have setup my own iGoogle replacement. I am setting up my own Google Reader replacement. I will probably not count on Google for much ever again. The cost to google to maintain both iGoogle and Reader would have been minuscule. They didn't need to develop it, just a basic maintenance operation, that would have cost them next to nothing, even for the next 10 or 20 years.

I know most people left services like iGoogle (and probably Reader / RSS) for Facebook and Twitter. I am not a 'Social Media' media guy. I am very busy and don't have the time or desire to see all the crap that comes with those services. iGoogle had great potential (and is far ahead of Facebook in my opinion, but Google really hasn't pushed the service at all, and as a result it too is withering on the vine. How long before that is shutdown too?

iGoogle and Reader were tools I used to separate the wheat from the chaff. Rather than depend on Google (or anyone else) I will build the equipment to do the job myself. Of course I am not like most people, I have the equipment and the experience to be able to build, maintain, and publish all my own services. Many people don't have those options. For me, message received, build and maintain it yourself, then you aren't beholden to anyone for anything.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Tig3RStyluS (profile), 21 Mar 2013 @ 4:36am

Re:
Ive used iGoogle since it was first released into the wild. When i read they were to discontinue it, but that i could continue to get that functionality from Chrome.. enough was enough - i refuse to be brute forced into using more Google software and services. Combined with the fact they have become the worlds largest intelligence agency and all their recent shenanigans like blocking off youtube access to WP devices, i switched everything over to MS. Im now happily using MSN (my.msn.com)for my RSS feeds and whilst MS are not perfect, at least with MS i know that i am not the product. Was remarkably easy to switch and find all my cloud communication services with MS are much better integrated than with Google. Ive also started using Bing for search and found its good, sometimes better than google, although i think google still has a slight lead. I still use youtube but hopeful other platforms get more traction and diminish youtubes position.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 21 Mar 2013 @ 4:43am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Customer Service Comparison gpoing beyond web services.
i'm really glad you guys have hijacked this thread into an apple bashing out.

look, to the ipad guy, if you were surprised that ios doesnt support widgets, then that is your fault. i get it, it was bought for you by work, but you still cannot expect ios to behave like android, or vica versa.

and to the 'widgets are too complex' guy, considering we've had dashboard for years now, i'm not sure where you are going with that. our icons update with previews of the contents for pictures and office files. and we can preview anything by hitting the space bar.

really. the troupe that mac users are dumb is really old. you should get new material. i think the current one is that we all dress like that justin kid and think we are better than everyone with our film cameras.

now. would you mind staying on topic? we are talking about the issue of having a cloud service provider who removes those services from use.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
William, 21 Mar 2013 @ 4:49am

Wait, Really?
You're complaining about a free service being shutdown and then tossing the word data in a few times to try to make it look like you actually lost your work? Google is quite possibly the first major company to allow you to export your data in an sensible, usable format. It's totally reasonable to not use a service you think might be shutdown, and even complain about a free service you loved being shutdown, but don't toss in the implication that you're somehow losing 'your' data.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Ninja (profile), 21 Mar 2013 @ 4:51am

Re: Remember google notebook
Keeping drafts in your mailbox works better and I think we can be fairly sure Google won't kill gmail. Actually it's doubly amusing when they advertised Notebook with questions like "where do you keep you notes? drafts in your inbox?"
[ link to this | view in thread ]
PaulT (profile), 21 Mar 2013 @ 5:25am

Re: Customer Service Comparison gpoing beyond web services.
Re-read your comments and try to work out why people say you're a fanboy, or at least still don't know what you talk about half the time. The evidence is there. It's not just because you've made a bunch of comments about Android vs. iOS on a story that's completely irrelevant to either of them. Fanboys aren't people who like their Xbox and defend them on Microsoft forums against criticism - they're the people who gush about them on PS3 forums on stories that are irrelevant to XBoxes.

For a start, why the hell would someone return their phone to the OS supplier rather than the people they have a contract with? Even out of contract if makes no sense since the carrier or manufacturer is usually where the paid support has been agreed. Do people usually call Microsoft instead of Dell when they have a problem with their PC? If they do, they're usually told to pay money or go to their PC manufacturer.

Then, why would you need to return the phone for a "broken firmware" to begin with, rather than use the supplied tools to restore the phone? AFAIK both devices come with tools to do just that and restore the apps and save the personal and app data. What if you don't live near an Apple store but the contract supplier is nearby - is your crappy scenario more or less convenient? What if your iPhone is out of warranty - is the service still covered or will Apple charge you more of a premium for service?

Oh, and a day or two without your phone to reinstall some firmware? You're not exactly selling Apple's service with that comment (and yes, before you go off on a defence, I am still an iPhone owner).
[ link to this | view in thread ]
PaulT (profile), 21 Mar 2013 @ 5:28am

Re:
Because Apple have never shut down a service or left their customers without a product they found useful...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
G Thompson (profile), 21 Mar 2013 @ 5:35am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Customer Service Comparison gpoing beyond web services.
�sı ʇuıod ɹnoʎ puɐ
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Wally (profile), 21 Mar 2013 @ 6:23am

Re: Re: Re: I'm mourning the oncoming loss of Reader as much as the next guy
In short, don't put all your eggs in one basket.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Wally (profile), 21 Mar 2013 @ 6:31am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Customer Service Comparison gpoing beyond web services.
I can make web widgets by pressing the box that has an arrow coming out (located in the middle of the navigational buttons at the bottom of my Safari web browser's interface) press "Add to Homepage". You can also easily organize various apps by holding a tap down on one if the icons and then simply dragging over another App.

Do not be blinded by the hatred of a device or the company that makes it. You learn how to use a device more efficiently that way.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Kingster (profile), 21 Mar 2013 @ 6:41am

Re: Re: Re: I'm mourning the oncoming loss of Reader as much as the next guy
As one that initially mourned the impending loss of iGoogle... I've decided I don't anymore. There are a number of on desktop apps that will display RSS right on your machine, whether it be Mac, PC, or Linux. That's all that iGoogle really was, anyway - a "laid out" RSS reader. Sure, there were a couple of "widgets" that were a bit more, but you could find desktop widget replacements for those too.

That said - I don't know how you could compare iGoogle with Facebook - they aren't even in the same neighborhood, apart from the fact that they are both web-based services. I certainly wouldn't look to Facebook for my news - I have to many friends that I consider idiots... LOL

Curious, though... What have you done to replace iGoogle and Reader? I moved all my feeds from Reader into Feedly with ease.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Wally (profile), 21 Mar 2013 @ 6:43am

Re: Re:
Yes but at least with iTunes, it's been recorded that you purchased something and can always re-download things you bought on a new device so long as the device gets tied to your account.

As for non-support for services...check again, Mac System 7.5.5 and older are still freely available on Apple's FTP archive legacy support site.

As for useful products, I can easily rebuttal that because Google got rid of AdBlock Plus which a lot of new people found useful that they didn't have to side-load the program in when it was Available on Google Play. Google saw that it blocked web browser ads...which is 97% of Google's income.

The point is that Google has a habit of telling its users they can trust them with their data and then getting rid of those services with them making hardly any effort to notify users of a service's impending doom. I made no comment about Apple in the comment you responded to and you were the one who brought them up.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Robert P (profile), 21 Mar 2013 @ 6:45am

Moving away from Google
It's a great search engine, but I'm finding myself moving away from Google (albeit slowly) for this very reason. I've seen quite a few apps come and go (I was a big fan of Wave). Given how little faith we can have on the long term viability of a given app they come up with (google health anyone?) it's just to risky to start using something of theirs now.

BTW, Bing's a pretty strong competitor on the search front too.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Wally (profile), 21 Mar 2013 @ 6:45am

Re:
Amen brother :-)
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Kingster (profile), 21 Mar 2013 @ 6:54am

Even if "Keep" went away..
Which I doubt it will, your "data" will be in Drive. Which won't go away. All Keep is, really, is a UI to display data that gets stored in Drive. Just like Document, Presentation, Drawing, etc. Right now, there isn't a "link" to Keep from Drive, but there will be shortly.

That said... I need Keep to be able to import my Evernotes. THEN it will be really useful.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Wally (profile), 21 Mar 2013 @ 7:01am

Re: Re: Customer Service Comparison gpoing beyond web services.
There are a two very sad things about your rebuttal:

1. You missed the joke that Killercool picked up on.

2. The walled garden you speak of and that admitted Apple has, has nothing to do with the most basic of customer services. They "treat people like children" because they are trained to be able to explain what they are going to do with the devices that techno phobics hand them. They translate the technobabble and cannot be held responsible for not knowing if you are technology oriented. It is basic friendly customer service.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
PaulT (profile), 21 Mar 2013 @ 7:02am

Re: Re: Re:
No, you're the one who brought Apple up in every other comment I've read by you in this thread.

I was just pointing out that the company you obsessively white knight in stories that have nothing to do with them also shut services down. I do love the fact that you cherry picked an example as if that proves everything though (and you know Apple also block apps that endanger their revenue, right?).

As for re-downloads? I'm not sure what that has to do with anything, but you might struggle when that app isn't available in iTunes any longer.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
ChrisB (profile), 21 Mar 2013 @ 7:05am

Re: Don't worry...
Why would Google kill Keep? Evernote could just come back. That's like saying Zuckerberg will kill Facebook after Myspace dies. That doesn't make any sense.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Wally (profile), 21 Mar 2013 @ 7:13am

Re: Re: Customer Service Comparison gpoing beyond web services.
"Fanboys aren't people who like their Xbox and defend them on Microsoft forums against criticism - they're the people who gush about them on PS3 forums on stories that are irrelevant to XBoxes."

Show me the "gushing" I did in that comment. I was only making a half serious comparison and it is not my fault you did not pick up on it

My point is about customer service. Google pulled a service from their customers. I don't see how that point isn't made.

"Then, why would you need to return the phone for a "broken firmware" to begin with, rather than use the supplied tools to restore the phone?"

Good point, even if the error basically bricks the device why bother sending it in right? /s

The initial point is that Google pulled a service that people relied on. They keep adding these services and taking them away just when people are getting used to them. Remember Google's response to social media was Google+. It tried to compete with FaceBook directly and Google fanboys ate it all up not realizing that upon release every e-mail a user made their private e-mails known. So forgive me for being a bit wary of Google.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Wally (profile), 21 Mar 2013 @ 7:15am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
"Because Apple have never shut down a service or left their customers without a product they found useful..."
[ link to this | view in thread ]
PaulT (profile), 21 Mar 2013 @ 7:41am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
"you're the one who brought Apple up in every other comment"

Reading comprehension. You seem to have missed a word.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
PaulT (profile), 21 Mar 2013 @ 7:46am

Re: Re: Re: Customer Service Comparison gpoing beyond web services.
"Show me the "gushing" I did in that comment"

You have a habit of defending every move Apple makes, while attacking Google and other competitors, so my comment didn't just apply here. This thread, for example, where you start on about completely different services with completely different setups and requirements to anything in the article. If that was a joke, it wasn't too far removed from the serious defences you often make in non-Apple threads (then whine when people call you a fanboy).

"The initial point is that Google pulled a service that people relied on."

As have Apple. As have Microsoft. As have Oracle. As have every technology company that's been around for any significant period of time.

So?

"Remember Google's response to social media was Google+."

Yes. I didn't use it much because I didn't find it useful. So what? Many social networks have failed to get mainstream traction.

"Google fanboys ate it all up not realizing that upon release every e-mail a user made their private e-mails known."

You seem to have your attacks mixed up. AFAIK, the problems with mails being shared were during the preview period of GMail - which pre-dated Google+ by a number of years. By the time Google+ came out, it was pretty well known that content on Google sites was often scraped by bots for ad purposes (though nobody's come up with convincing evidence of anything beyond this AFAIK). I was certainly well aware of it, but it had nothing to do with my decision not to use Google+ instead of Facebook (I have accounts for both, but rarely log into the former even though I use GMail daily).

Would you mind pointing to these stories of "fanboys" eating up Google+ then reacting badly when the pre-existing email sharing was realised? Because I don't think it happened like that.

"So forgive me for being a bit wary of Google."

That's your choice. Some others here are wary of Apple and Microsoft. Other prefer not to use major corporations for their services at all. So?

It's just interesting that your "being wary of Google" tends to consist of "talk about how much I love Apple's products and services", even though both companies have major issues with the way they do business.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
fndtn357, 21 Mar 2013 @ 7:48am

RE: new "notes" by google
No. Especially since they just shut down Reader. Why run the risk of having to relocate anything? I also believe that they are now operating under different principles since their founding - not good.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
nasch (profile), 21 Mar 2013 @ 7:53am

Re: Re: Re: Customer Service Comparison gpoing beyond web services.
The initial point is that Google pulled a service that people relied on. They keep adding these services and taking them away just when people are getting used to them.

Paul's point is that doesn't have anything to do with Android or iPhone or Google supporting or not supporting hardware made by somebody else. All your analogy did was derail the conversation.

I think a better description of Google's customer service would be something like this:

Customer: I have problem X with your product Y.
Google: Here are links to places where you can ask other customers about your problem.
Customer: I would like to speak to you directly about this problem.
Google: -silence-
[ link to this | view in thread ]
nasch (profile), 21 Mar 2013 @ 7:56am

Re: Re: Don't worry...
Why would Google kill Keep?

For the same reasons they're killing Reader, presumably.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Mr. Applegate, 21 Mar 2013 @ 7:57am

Re: Re: Re: Re: I'm mourning the oncoming loss of Reader as much as the next guy
Yeah, desktop apps don't really work for me. I use a number of different computers, as well as tablet and phone on a daily basis, and I don't want to have to install apps or try to maintain them on multiple systems. So desktop apps are out for me.

A lot of my tech savvy friends depend almost entirely on their Facebook and Twitter feeds for all their news needs. As a matter of fact a friend was trying to sell me on Facebook / Twitter as a replacement for Google News just last week. (No Sale)

For an iGoogle replacement I am using a Drupal plugin called "Homebox" (if I recall). I haven't found a replacement for Reader yet, but there are a few candidates I am currently researching (afraid they are on my home computer and I don't recall their names right now). So my iGoogle replacement is up and running just fine, still working on a Reader replacement though.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
art guerrilla (profile), 21 Mar 2013 @ 7:59am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Customer Service Comparison gpoing beyond web services.
!
that's pretty cool!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Nicolas (profile), 21 Mar 2013 @ 8:05am

Google Voice
Millions now rely on Google Voice, which the company has long stopped improving. How long until Google orphans us poor souls? There is little reason to have confidence in the company.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
art guerrilla (profile), 21 Mar 2013 @ 8:07am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Customer Service Comparison gpoing beyond web services.
my nexus 7 beat up your ipad ! ! !
hee hee hee

seriously, there are 'flaws' and shortcomings even in the droid world: e.g. annoys the hell out of me that i have a mini-usb connection, bought a little cable to -or so i thought- connect a flash drive to it that has my main musak collection on it, but it won't fucking read external storage stuff... The Bastards! (tm)

hey, yoogle, get off'a MY cloud ! ! !

art guerrilla
aka ann archy
eof
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 21 Mar 2013 @ 8:08am

No, but
Keep won't go away. Reader went away because it wasn't part of the monolithic G+ architecture. Keep is. Hence it will stay for the long-haul.

Now, that doesn't mean I'll use it. I don't qualify as a fanboy, but I use a lot of Google stuff. I'm OK with them scraping my (very) occasional email*, and my G+ posts. My notes? No way. Those are my thoughts, my ideas. I don't want the Goog getting hold of those. Even if the Reader debacle never happened, Google would never be the place I'd put my notes.

* - As an aside, do people even use email any more beside forwarding crap jokes and even crappier "inspirational quotes"? I know businesses use email regularly, but we're talking GMail here, not corporate email.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
PaulT (profile), 21 Mar 2013 @ 8:22am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Customer Service Comparison gpoing beyond web services.
Not even that. Unless I'm mistaken, most handset manufacturers use a modified version of Android, not the core branch - in the same way that most Linux distros use modified versions of the kernel. They have patches and backports that are not Google's work or necessarily Google approved.

So literally - again unless I missed something (I don't use an Android) - Google's response is "go to the company who made the device because we can't necessarily help you". Which they possibly can't, especially if the customer is wrong about there being a software error. None of that has anything to do with Reader, though.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
G Thompson (profile), 21 Mar 2013 @ 8:24am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Customer Service Comparison gpoing beyond web services.
can be found at /bɹo˙ʇxǝʇdıןɟ˙ʍʍʍ//:dʇʇɥ

Have fun... annoy your colleagues ;)
[ link to this | view in thread ]
akp (profile), 21 Mar 2013 @ 8:59am

Short answer? No. I won't be using it.

At this point I pretty much only trust them to keep Gmail running. I love my iGoogle, and they're taking that too.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
John Fenderson (profile), 21 Mar 2013 @ 9:10am

Re: Re: Re: Customer Service Comparison gpoing beyond web services.
Umm, the Android user can do things pretty much the same way as the iPhone user in your example, but doesn't have to use iTunes to do it.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
jupiterkansas (profile), 21 Mar 2013 @ 9:37am

Re: Moving away from Google
I'm not sure what you're going to move to online that's any less risky. Google's not the only company whose services I've used that have disappeared from the web. The fact is the web is volatile and constantly changing. That's a big part of what makes it phenomenal, but you can't expect ANYTHING to last forever online.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Cthulhu Gnu (profile), 21 Mar 2013 @ 9:37am

They've turned me off...
...and I've pretty much been a Google fanboy. But now I feel like I'm being herded towards their fenced pasture, and I don't want to go.

Yes, I know it's all free and they have every right. But Google needs us, you and me and the other free-riders. It sells access to our community to its advertisers. In a sense, we're Google's product. If your product can leave, it's a bad idea to piss it off.

I've switched to Zoho for online office tools and Box for online storage. I'm still evaluating Reader alternatives, and looking for a good migration path off of Google Sites for a literary website I manage. (I've already gone to MailChimp for that site's mailing list management.)

And I've been using StartPage and DuckDuckGo for search for quite some time already.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
nasch (profile), 21 Mar 2013 @ 9:58am

Re: No, but
As an aside, do people even use email any more beside forwarding crap jokes and even crappier "inspirational quotes"?

Yes, millions of people use email on a daily basis.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Phillip (profile), 21 Mar 2013 @ 12:03pm

Re: Remember google notebook
Yep, don't even care what Keep is or does. Google will just shut it down soon.

Wave, Notebook, iGoogle, Reader, and many more
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Wally (profile), 21 Mar 2013 @ 2:01pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Customer Service Comparison gpoing beyond web services.
What's amazing is that Apple does make an iPad accessory that transfer pictures you have taken and stored from an XHCSD card (or SD card for simplicity's sake) to your iPad's photo album. I have yet hear if there is a way to exploit that to run non-iTunes apps though.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Wally (profile), 21 Mar 2013 @ 2:14pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Customer Service Comparison gpoing beyond web services.
"As have Apple. As have Microsoft. As have Oracle. As have every technology company that's been around for any significant period of time."

The latter of the two transfer services to the new ones.....and based the moves they made on customer feed back and use of their products. Google on the other hand had no arbitrary reason to pull google reader, has never transferred user uploaded data from one service to the next (GoogleVideo to YouTube) and have people a 3 month warning when some of this data could take up to a year to back up.

Apple doesn't drop services and as I have stated many times I'm a software archivist by hobby. Knowing where to download Apple's obsolete operating system software (namely System 7.5.3) does not constitute fanboyism.

"It's just interesting that your "being wary of Google" tends to consist of "talk about how much I love Apple's products and services", even though both companies have major issues with the way they do business."

Well if you hadn't noticed someone asked about iPad use and widgets....and this article is about an issue with Google.

You would be wary too if you actually cared to notice that Google's main profit stems from advertising services it had acquired over the years so it could target specific ads based on information that gets searched via your IP address.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Wally (profile), 21 Mar 2013 @ 2:16pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Customer Service Comparison gpoing beyond web services.
You know what nasch I think you nailed it dead on. It's a shell game so that Google can basically not be held responsible for when it cocks up with an Android update.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
AnonCow, 21 Mar 2013 @ 2:17pm

I don't mind using a Google "beta" product when there is no commercially viable alternative (like RSS readers), but I would be loathe to abandon a commercially successful product like Evernote from a very customer-focused company for a Google beta product under the likely assumption that Google would probably kill Keep the day after they put Evernote out of business.

Google should have their search engine log this under "biting the hand that pays you" or "Do no stupid".
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Wally (profile), 21 Mar 2013 @ 2:19pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Customer Service Comparison gpoing beyond web services.
The manufactures are responsible for loading there own drivers/firmware in the kernel of Android and for the shell/interface (because Android is UNIX based), outside of that, Google is responsible for the core software and any updates to it.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Wally (profile), 21 Mar 2013 @ 2:23pm

Re: Wait, Really?
How many Google Videos made it to YouTube when Google acquired it?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Wally (profile), 21 Mar 2013 @ 2:25pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Customer Service Comparison gpoing beyond web services.
Good! Now we can talk Australian English ;-P
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Wally (profile), 21 Mar 2013 @ 2:28pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Customer Service Comparison gpoing beyond web services.
"Google fanboys ate it all up not realizing that upon release every e-mail a user made their private e-mails known."

Not many people do.....why not pull it?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Aurock, 21 Mar 2013 @ 3:31pm

Re: Remember google notebook
I agree with sdf. I used google notebook and ended up transitioning everything to Evernote when Google shuttered their Notebook product. I've been pretty happy with Evernote, so I'm not looking for a new provider. Even if I was, why would I expect Google to keep the new notebook product around any longer than they did the first incarnation. . .
[ link to this | view in thread ]
nasch (profile), 21 Mar 2013 @ 4:06pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Customer Service Comparison gpoing beyond web services.
It's a shell game so that Google can basically not be held responsible for when it cocks up with an Android update.

I don't have any specific knowledge of their motivations, but my impression is that it's either culture or money. Either for some reason they just want to be a company that releases products and lets the community support them (maybe they think their products are so awesome they don't need real support?), or else they've analyzed it and decided the expense of offering customer support is just not worth it. It's possible it's something more nefarious as you suggest, but that isn't how it seems to me.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
nasch (profile), 21 Mar 2013 @ 4:07pm

I don't mind using a Google "beta" product when there is no commercially viable alternative

Do any of their products ever make it out of beta? Or have they stopped that nonsense?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 21 Mar 2013 @ 7:22pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Customer Service Comparison gpoing beyond web services.
"you still cannot expect ios to behave like android, or vica versa."

Funny... Steve Jobs thought Android behaved and looked enough like iOS to claim that it was "a stolen product" and iOS started copying concepts from Android like the pull down notifications. As a consumer, I very well can expect both OS manufacturers to give their customers what they want. Google gives me what I want with Android. Apple not so much with iOS. I'm just glad my company paid for the iPad because I wouldn't have shelled out for this thing.

Apple does do some things well. I'm not bashing Apple because I hate them. I'm bashing iOS on the iPad because its design is deficient and lagging behind its supposedly inferior competitor.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
monkyyy, 21 Mar 2013 @ 8:10pm

" abrupt shutdown"
what? its still going
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 21 Mar 2013 @ 9:58pm

Re: Re: Remember google notebook
Idk about Keep's future, but I was pretty annoyed about Wave, since there really isn't anywhere to take that data. It's uselessly stored on my hd in a format neither I nor any of my co-contributors can access.

Google's taught me that if I don't have a useable offline backup, I don't have data. Completely the opposite of what cloud computing was supposed to do.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
PaulT (profile), 22 Mar 2013 @ 2:11am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Customer Service Comparison gpoing beyond web services.
I give up, you're not only ignoring the points I make -0 presumably because they're too difficult (I talk about services, you're talking about OS versions - NOT the same thing but easier to defend), but you wave most points away with half-assed generalisms. Again, you're not interested in talking about the points at issue, only in attacking Google.

Whatever - I've been exposed to your lack of knowledge before and your attempt to act like you know everything when you don't even have the basic concepts right. I'm not interested in continuing here except to note that my initial comment to you was when YOU brought up Apple in a thread about Google's non-competing services and thus was totally irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
PaulT (profile), 22 Mar 2013 @ 2:16am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Customer Service Comparison gpoing beyond web services.
Your anti-Google obsession is stopping you from considering contract, modification and other issues involved when a company is not involved in both the hardware and software production like your beloved Apple.

Let's make things clear - Google DO support Android but only on GOOGLE hardware. For other support they refer to the manufacturer who you have a support contract with and/or modified it after Google supplied the code. If you think this is a scam, you must think the entire PC market is one also.

Again, you show your ignorance while trying o boast about your knowledge.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
PaulT (profile), 22 Mar 2013 @ 2:19am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Customer Service Comparison gpoing beyond web services.
So, you admit that drivers (usually the most problematic of OS software features) are not Google's responsibility, and may be just one of the alterations made beyond Google's control after the Android code was supplied? Good, I'm glad you're starting to see why your stupid attacks are stupid.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anthony, 22 Mar 2013 @ 6:18am

Re:
I pretty much agree with this sentiment. I love iGoogle and use it for my RSS feeds. They've forced me to move on to feedly instead(which works really well, don't get me wrong).
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Jay Horsecow, 22 Mar 2013 @ 6:30am

the answer to your question is "not a f*cking chance*
why would I stop using Evernote, especially with how Google can decide the product is no longer feasible and kill it. Once bitten, twice shy...and this coming from someone who was a HUGE Google fanboy.

Buzz? Plus? Keep? does Google innovate anymore or do they just copy? Aside from their stupid Goggles.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
nasch (profile), 22 Mar 2013 @ 8:11am

Re: the answer to your question is "not a f*cking chance*
Buzz? Plus? Keep? does Google innovate anymore or do they just copy? Aside from their stupid Goggles.

Wave was innovative. RIP Google Wave...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Shannon, 22 Mar 2013 @ 8:15am

Re: Re: Re: I'm mourning the oncoming loss of Reader as much as the next guy
"I know most people left services like iGoogle (and probably Reader / RSS) for Facebook and Twitter. I am not a 'Social Media' media guy. I am very busy and don't have the time or desire to see all the crap that comes with those services. iGoogle had great potential (and is far ahead of Facebook in my opinion, but Google really hasn't pushed the service at all, and as a result it too is withering on the vine. How long before that is shutdown too?"

Maybe you missed that announcement last July...iGoogle is already set to be closed in November this year...the mobile version was killed July last year.

http://support.google.com/websearch/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=2664197
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Mr. Applegate, 22 Mar 2013 @ 8:51am

Re: Re: Re: Re: I'm mourning the oncoming loss of Reader as much as the next guy
Actually, that was supposed to be Google+ googles Social Media offering. Yeah I know iGoogle is turned off this November, migrated last spring.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Wally (profile), 23 Mar 2013 @ 9:09am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Customer Service Comparison gpoing beyond web services.
True, and some of the non-rooting stuff one could use for "side loading" as it were...some BitTorrent clients dot the same syncing processes as iTunes.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Wally (profile), 23 Mar 2013 @ 10:02am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Customer Service Comparison gpoing beyond web services.
"So, you admit that drivers (usually the most problematic of OS software features) are not Google's responsibility,"

Google makes the kernel.....if there is an issue in the kernel, it is Google's problem because the SHELL is that of the carrier or manufacturer. It creates a vartible maze for people to get their devicese fixed. The apple Store will take your device and fix it no matter what carrier because that information is stored on Apples' servers....because your UDID from that device is tied to your iTunes Account so it is really easy for those people working inside an Apple Store to backup and retrieve data from a (rarely) broken device. The only thing a transfer would get rid of is whatever MP3's you uploaded from your computer through iTunes.....easier to fix, better cutomer service than most carriers (though Sprint actually trains its storefront technicians to fix your Android hardware).

The point is this...Google is pulling a useable service they figure isn't generating them enough advertising revenue (really...how many want to see an advertisement block out a part of a book they are reading?). Google's main revenue stream lies in advertising.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Wally (profile), 23 Mar 2013 @ 10:08am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Customer Service Comparison gpoing beyond web services.
" or else they've analyzed it and decided the expense of offering customer support is just not worth it. It's possible it's something more nefarious as you suggest, but that isn't how it seems to me."

When 97% of your revenue is in the form of advertising and gathering information on your own users...it becomes nefarious.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
nasch (profile), 23 Mar 2013 @ 10:24am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Customer Service Comparison gpoing beyond web services.
When 97% of your revenue is in the form of advertising and gathering information on your own users...it becomes nefarious.

I don't find that nefarious. It's not like they're trying to hide that from anyone.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Wally (profile), 23 Mar 2013 @ 6:02pm

It's nice to see Google trying to keep up with the MS Office 365 version of Microsoft OneNote....Almost like Google Plus was with FaceBook.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
PaulT (profile), 24 Mar 2013 @ 4:26am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Customer Service Comparison gpoing beyond web services.
Oh dear, you still don't get it...

Yes, Google makes the kernel but they don't make the entire product that's delivered to the consumer. That's the point. Your beloved Apple are the exception, not the rule, since they make every part of the product delivered to the customer. Unless you want to claim that the entire PC industry for decades has been a scam, you have to accept that it's the people who deliver the product that makes it into the customer's hands who are responsible for support, not suppliers of part of the product.

Again, you think you know something, but your grasp of the reality is weak.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Wally (profile), 24 Mar 2013 @ 4:31pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Customer Service Comparison gpoing beyond web services.
"That's the point. Your beloved Apple are the exception, not the rule, since they make every part of the product delivered to the customer."

Makes it easier to repair parts...

" Unless you want to claim that the entire PC industry for decades has been a scam," and"Again, you think you know something, but your grasp of the reality is weak."

Many companies made many upgrades for what ever standards Apple had use over the years. The ignorance is yours for not realizing that this could be done by Macintosh users as well as technicians. My father still has the star drill bit from when we upgraded the 30 pin SIMM RAM in a Macintosh Plus....when PC's at the time were only using SIM Sockets.....your sense of history is also weak.

Comparing the 2 industries is like comparing apple's to oranges. You cannot switch out RAM or CPU on a mobile handset or tablet device without getting an entirely new one in most cases. The only replaceable things in the mobile industry, and only if you are a lucky bastard, are the screen and any external storage device, and possibly the SIM card....Sprint is the only carrier who will fix devices on sight.

" you have to accept that it's the people who deliver the product that makes it into the customer's hands who are responsible for support, not suppliers of part of the product."

Yup....and every time Google has updated under Jellybean so far, it has become less and less open.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
nasch (profile), 24 Mar 2013 @ 5:37pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Customer Service Comparison gpoing beyond web services.
You completely missed another point. He's not saying users can't upgrade their Macs. He's saying when you get something from Apple, Apple is the supplier of all of the hardware and all the software. This is not true of Android or PC.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
PaulT (profile), 27 Mar 2013 @ 3:34am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Customer Service Comparison gpoing beyond web services.
It's amazing really. You don't deny any of the points I'm making, but still insist on trying to turn them into a defence of Apple / attack on Google. The analogy to the PC market was just that - an analogy, not me saying they're the same thing as the phone market. If you don't get the analogy, it's another sign of how your knowledge of tech is woefully incomplete, yet you pretend you know everything.
[ link to this | view in thread ]