Washington State Apparently Taxes Clubs For People Saying On Yelp That They Danced
from the tax-tax-revolution dept
Dancing, what could be more controversial? Whether it's arresting NYC subway travelers for doing the charleston, or body slamming anyone dancing silently at a memorial to freedom, there appears to be something our government dislikes about musically-induced gyrations. With that in mind, it's with a total lack of surprise that I report that the state of Washington is attempting to make up the tax revenue they forgave Microsoft by finding any clubs in Seattle that offer patrons an "opportunity to dance" and taxing the testicles off of them. It all began, apparently, when state lawmakers revised their software royalty tax because of Microsoft.
In April 2010, Washington State’s Legislature changed the definition of its software royalty tax and effectively granted amnesty to Microsoft, helping the company lock up $1.51 billion in savings from its thirteen-year Nevada tax dodge - and more than $100 million annually each year into the future.Well, it wouldn't do for the state to simply have less tax revenue, so to make that amount up they decided to shake down Seattle clubs with a relatively ancient tax on "opportunities to dance" and demanding back taxes from tons of clubs. Just to throw out some numbers, we're talking about tens and even hundreds of thousands of dollars owed per club. Moreover, this tax was actually never intended to be applied to night clubs, ballrooms, or bars. It was originally meant for clubs that partook in some ancient ritual called "jazzercise". Now it's being selectively reinterpreted to tax these clubs, even if their patrons don't dance at all.
It works like this: If the state believes that you give your patrons the opportunity to dance, then you pay the tax even when people don’t dance. That’s according to Mike Gowrylow, with the Department of Revenue. Gowrylow: “You could have somebody go into a nightclub, or a bar, or tavern, and they pay cover charges. Unless you followed every person around, you wouldn’t know if they actually danced or not, so the only simple way we could have of defining this is if you give them the opportunity to dance, then the tax applies.”This has led to a sadly hysterical practice by club owners that involves strategically placing club furniture throughout their floors as a sort of obstacle course to prevent dancing. No, seriously, that is actually happening.
That said, while government could win championships in evil, they're not real big on doing actual work, so you'd imagine it would be quite difficult for Department of Revenue employees to go to different clubs and bars to see if the obstacle courses are obstacle-y enough to warrant no taxation. As it turns out, they don't even bother. Instead, they just troll the internet to see if anyone mentions any dancing at these places. Seriously.
Gowrylow says auditors search the Internet to find out whether people dance at specific clubs. One clubowner reports an auditor told him: “You have the opportunity to dance, and we verified it by 8 or 10 different references on Yelp.”Think it can't get any stupider? Wrong. One club offers this.
“My auditor… came in with an obituary of a girl who committed suicide,” says another club owner. “When I argued that we aren’t primarily a dance club—we have ‘No Dancing’ signs up everywhere—she flashed this obit that said the girl liked to dance at [our club]. The auditor said, ‘I know this is ridiculous, but I have to do this.’”Yay, bureaucracy. To pay these thousands-of-dollars fines, many of the clubs in Seattle are asking for donations, noting that, if something in the assessments doesn't change, their businesses may not survive. I know a decent-sized software company that should probably be donating right about now.
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Filed Under: dancing, social media, taxes, washington
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Next: politicians tax small businesses because they allow people to BREATHE inside. Business owners start filling the places with carbon dioxide and ask people to bring their own oxygen cylinders.
Gosh, can this world get any more stupid? Don't reply, it probably is already.
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I'm having a hard time understanding why there aren't mobs of pitchfork wielding taxpayers and small businesses converging on the statehouse and Microsoft's home base.
Or, is the weed in Washington really *that* good?!?
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They should be...
However, most people are just too dumb to care.
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I'm not enough of a misanthrope to agree. They just need to learn about this tragedy and get their game on. This shouldn't be happening to them. Pitchforks and torches people! Time to step up.
I guess this makes me a "terrist." :-P
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Have enough power and wealth and the rules no longer apply.
Software, Content, etc. if your big enough you shouldn't be burdened like the little people.
What did we do back in the dark ages when everything was simpler, when everyone paid their own way?
When your chasing tax dollars based on an obit, while giving a large corporation a pass on dodging taxes it really is time to wonder what the hell is wrong with the system and actually fix it rather than look for ways to make it easier for the large corporation to benefit at the expense of everyone else.
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Re: Have enough power and wealth and the rules no longer apply.
One does not relate to the other, boy.
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Re: Re: Have enough power and wealth and the rules no longer apply.
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Re: Re: Re: Have enough power and wealth and the rules no longer apply.
> caused by not punishing MS for shifting
> cash out to avoid taxes
I agree that Microsoft should be paying more (or at least the dance halls shouldn't have to make up for the shortfall), but why should the state punish *anyone* for tax avoidance?
Tax *evasion* is illegal, but tax avoidance is perfectly legitimate. Everyone does it. When you take a deduction on your taxes as allowed by law, that's tax avoidance. When you choose to live in Texas rather than California because Texas has no state income tax, that's tax avoidance.
Indeed, the Supreme Court has not only legitimized tax avoidance but given it its stamp of approval:
"Anyone may arrange his affairs so that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which best pays the treasury. There is not even a patriotic duty to increase one's taxes. Over and over again the Courts have said that there is nothing sinister in so arranging affairs as to keep taxes as low as possible. Everyone does it, rich and poor alike and all do right, for nobody owes any public duty to pay more than the law demands." --Justice Learned Hand
Given all that, I kinda take issue with your suggestion that the state should be punishing people for tax avoidance.
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Re: Have enough power and wealth and the rules no longer apply.
There was basically a caste system where a middle class did not exist.
From my point of view as an American that realizes that America is no longer a representative republic, and is now an oligarchy; I contend that we are headed back into the dark ages again with monarchs, serfs and peasants.
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Taxation without representation... Again...
Taxes when taken in moderation, are necessary to make a government financially self sustaining.
However it is neither prudent or necessary to enact ridiculous taxes such as this. Continuing to push B.S. like this has helped to start wars in the past (American revolution).
While I don't believe a tax on dancing is likely to incite insurrection, it does help to make living in this country stink just a little more than it has to.
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Re: Taxation without representation... Again...
Probably not, but it's interesting to note how many times in history that full-blown revolutions were triggered by relatively insignificant things like this. This sort of thing can become the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back.
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Re: Re: Taxation without representation... Again...
In an already volatile situation, such as just before the American revolution, a slight provocation, like this senseless tax may be all that is required to push it over the edge.
Past that point it escalates on its own.
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Re: Taxation without representation... Again...
No, all taxes are theft (or extorion under the treat of violence). If you want to finance services, charge for the services. If people are not willing to pay for something, then the government has no right to supply the service.
�Taxes are not levied for the benefit of the taxed.� - Robert Heinlein
"I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man, standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle." --Winston Churchill
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Re: Taxation without representation... Again...
No, all taxes are theft (or extortion under the treat of violence). If you want to finance services, charge for the services. If people are not willing to pay for something, then the government has no right to supply the service.
�Taxes are not levied for the benefit of the taxed.� - Robert Heinlein
"I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man, standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle." --Winston Churchill
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Re: Taxation without representation... Again...
No, all taxes are theft (or extortion under the treat of violence). If you want to finance services, charge for the services. If people are not willing to pay for something, then the government has no right to supply the service.
�Taxes are not levied for the benefit of the taxed.� - Robert Heinlein
"I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man, standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle." --Winston Churchill
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Re: Re: Taxation without representation... Again...
I agree, and in an ideal world, this is the way it would be done.
Unfortunately, the world we live in is far from ideal, governments have been collecting taxes since the dawn of civilization, and are unlikely to stop anytime soon.
However, as long as we ensure that tax amounts and conditions are reasonable, and that there is some tangible service provided to the taxpayer in return, it is usually a good compromise.
Granted, of course there are better ways, but implementing them is a long and difficult road.
Btw, check that your post took before retrying. Its happened to me a few times too, so no worries, just be careful...
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Re: Re: Re: Taxation without representation... Again...
This may be a bit unreasonable on my part, but I am an idealist. Putting up with this atrocious conduct is just painful, and we should NOT be expected to put up with it. They should not be able to get away with this.
They assume too much, and I'll boycott the whole shootin' match before I'll go their way.
I don't even like dancing. It's the principle of the thing.
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Re: Taxation without representation... Again...
No. It's the government's job to do what we tell them to do (within reason, constitutionally constrained). There's lots of ways to fund that which don't include taxation (user fees, fines, donations, ...).
Were I a small businessman trying to keep a small tavern afloat, and they hit me with something as corrupt as this, I'd be looking to emigrate to somewhere more sensible.
This is sick on so many levels.
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You wanna know how I knew tim wrote this without looking at the author name?
I think I'll stay away from washington as I rather like my balls
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:D
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http://gayhomophobe.com/
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PS Sorry about the earlier triple post, Damn screen just sits there, pretending that it has not sent anything.
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Damn!
Broke the law again!
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Re: Anonymous
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Make it profitable to get micro-payments from the internet tax-wise and you will see a far better industry at minimal costs.
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Which company are you talking about, boy?
One of Mitt Romney's shells?
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1..2..3..4..box step..gliiiide!
Now where's that Yelp password...
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No, a better way to drive home how insane something like this is would be to show up at any political rally, fundraiser, group meeting etc, have a few people start dancing, another take a picture, and then send that in. If businesses start refusing to host their meetings for fear that they'll get fined, that'll hit their funding, and that they'll care about.
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Never mind that it's set up and specifically designed to work that way, just be happy and pay your taxes.
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Yet again, problem is at the BIG end.
Just rail at Microsoft, Timmy. BIG should be your focus.
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Re: Yet again, problem is at the BIG end.
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Tax on Dancing
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Recession needs to support small business
If all these clubs go bankrupt, not only will you lower the quality of life for those who would otherwise be patrons - but you are also killing businesses and jobs that will make the recession WORSE, not better.
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Re: Recession needs to support small business
I'm Albertan also. What is this program please? Got a link?
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So could walmart get taxed...
How about a school dance?
WHAT ABOUT THE 5 YEAR OLDS AT THE BUS STOP?!?!?!?! THINK OF THE TERRORIST'S CHILDREN!!!!!
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Re: So could walmart get taxed...
This's the taxman. I imagine tapping your foot to the beat counts as dancing.
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Freedom of expression?
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Appa rently Japan has taken it to another level...
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Cheat your taxes by a few thousand dollars? You're going to jail!
Cheat your taxes by 1.5 BILLION dollars? No problem, we'll retroactively give you a big tax break to get you to start paying taxes again!
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The answer is obvious....
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That little plot twist
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because Microsoft?
"revised their software royalty tax because Microsoft."
LOL
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Yeah, but it's only a matter of time before they tax chin-scratching and head-bobbing. When that happens, Seattle is in big trouble.
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Dance is firmly entrenched in our societies culture. Its a normal human social group activity that enhances participants feelings of individual specialness while fitting in with grace and elegance within that group. One can easily say it enhances life and facilitates social group cohesiveness. A valuable social development tool dancing is.
In such light why would any sane bureaucracy tax that? There is no social/societal/cultural/public benefit to it whatsoever. (using the slash notation condenses 4 sentences into one) Taxing at the expense of society is a cultural crime as it robs both the individual and social group of valuable needed interactions.
A tax on a specific activities performed at a social event is an easy way to limit/control/monitor such activities? Why was dancing singled out as bad? Just by levying a tax on something makes it a bad thing to be avoided especially in hard economic times. Its normal human behavior 101.
Another point is freedom of assembly. The right to gather and behave in any way we feel like and not be interrupted by taxing bodies, music police, performance laws, port-a-potty count or whatever. Worse would be if any of these are contrived reasons to prevent citizens from assembling to discuss whatever important topic and interact (dance, sing, act-out, etc) in the way they choose or pick to be valuable for the social occasion it is.
Here we have a society thats beginning to prohibit any assembly of people at all. When people get together whether at home or at a bar/banquette-hall/disco-bar/classical-dance-floor/foot-stomping-western-bar/etc they will do what they want and that should be 100% totally fine WITHOUT PENALTY!
Freedom of assembly is a constitutional issue that has been neglected in favor of 'gang' laws that prohibit gatherings of any kind or use of language of choice. (outlawing hand signals sometimes called signs) Which is silly cuz even chess/math/bio-chem/etc clubs/fraternities sometimes have a secret handshake or recognition sign. Its a kind of class warfare unfairly waged.
Really. Its a tax on shaking your body. How flipped out it that? It was mentioned thats its legislative inheritance was based on a tax of Jazzersize... Why would any city, state or whatever governing body make it more expensive to get healthy. Call me cynical but its more likely the local/state health club special interest group most likely felt threatened by the newer Jazzersize clubs slipping onto their imaginary turf.
Dancing is a healty normal human function and taxing it is insane. Is it any wonder the weight of the aveage American has been increasing? Nope. If even normal human activity is taxed people and business will just either not do it or make it impossible.
Fines of �thousands of dollars� are not small even to large clubs and frequently they just close down. Decreasing tax revenue while increasing fines is economically stupid. How can the bureaucracy hold the club owners liable for activities that are natural and clients just do it spontaneously for fun and enjoyment.
Along that line of thinking; Wouldn't the �dance tax� be an enjoyment tax. That would be the opposite of a vice tax? (cigarettes, booze) On so many levels this kind of government behavior is unhealthy for a happy social society. Did the state legislature actually think this over before voting? Just how strong is the local special interest groups (MS?) What way can they defend against the accusation that this is a tax on society and culture itself?
Wasn't there supposed to be some phrasing like �shall make no laws pertaining to� something like that? Dance is an integral part of some religions (Native American Indians is good example) so laws like this can have even more cultural damage.
-more ranting-
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Dance As Sex
(Courtly dance was the ancestral form of ballet, only its technical standards were not so high as was achieved in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries.)
Obviously, in these terms, the way clubs are regulated makes sense. The authorities reckon about how many notches away from a brothel a club is, and act accordingly.
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No. This taxes the venue, not the participant.
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Opportunity to strike back
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WA Taxes
The yahoos in Olympia and on the King County Council keep telling us we need to pay our share in terms of the second highest sales tax in the nation. We're tied with the highest fuel tax. They want to toll one road (which crosses an island -- ask those folks how THEY like that!) to pay for another road -- this has never been done anywhere in the US. Our previous governor forced indian reservations to collect taxes -- not that the state got those taxes, just that they collect taxes.
1.51bn would more than halve the state budget shortfall for fy13. While its true that this wont fix Washington's budget ills, it would help. Even just the $100M might help keep the wealthiest county in the state's buses running.
Olympia has bizare priorities.
Even Gates Sr. wrote a ballot initiative to create in income tax for the highest earners in the state. It was defeated largely because ballot initiatives can be rewritten after 2 years.
The new marijuana legalization is already turning into a quagmire with lawmakers unhappy with the $1000 license fee for sellers now wanting to make the fees locale centric so, for example, a downtown Bellevue location could pay $250,000 for their license. This is combined with a 75% tax on sales. The whole purpose was to make the black market irrelvant through legal availability. By taxing something so high that it is cheaper to use a well establish black market there would be little to no taxes collected.
So long as the lobbyist is represented and not the taxpayer this state will continue to cowtow to folks like Ballmer, Page, Bezos, and more, rather than looking out for the ones who actually voted.
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Re: WA Taxes
I am sorry to tell you, the grass isn't really greener. It's still just grass...
...and illegal in other states.
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Re: WA Taxes
I believe Indiana is doing something similar.
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Horrible deal
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Re: Horrible deal
In other words, "Enslave me, Microsoft!"
Linux + LibreOffice + Apache costs you nothing but brainpower and research, and locks you into nothing. Free updates (including security fixes) too.
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MS
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Re: MS
Geeks dance with their fingers on keyboards.
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The Internet.
Because if you read it on the Internet, it must be true.
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Re: The Internet.
If I were an IRS employee, I'd be worried. This is an easily "farmed out to India" sort of function. Any moron can grep the Internet for this sort of miscreant.
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Corrupt state government
At every level of state, county and municipal government here in Washington State you will find the most despicable degenerates holding public office.
VISIT WASHINGTON, THE CHILD RAPE STATE
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Tax
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Just imagine how much better the world would be if everytime someone was going to say that, they instead said "This is ridiculous, I'm not doing this."
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Microsoft Publishes Dancing Games
http://marketplace.xbox.com/en-GB/Product/Dance-Central/66acd000-77fe-1000-9115-d8025456 07d3
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Government in a nutshell then.
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