Sorry, Having IMDB Accurately List Your Age Doesn't Entitle You To A Million Dollars
from the be-careful-what-you-ask-for... dept
Junie Hoang has lost her lawsuit against IMDb. She sued the online database for "breach of contract" after it replaced her fake birthdate (1978) with her real one (1971). The case had a few twists and turns, most of them "wrong ways" and "dead ends."
Claiming the posting of her real birthdate to be an invasion of privacy, Hoang first pursued this suit anonymously for fear of being tossed aside by Hollywood's ageist tendencies. Unfortunately for Hoang, Judge Marsha J. Peschman told her she'd have to reveal her name to proceed with the lawsuit, finding Hoang's worries of industry blacklisting not sufficient enough to justify continued anonymity.
Now, while Hoang claimed revealing her birthdate was an invasion of privacy, she sued IMDb for breach of contract. Here's how this all went down.
Hoang signed up for a subscription service with the website called IMDb Pro... She said she initially listed a false birth year - 1978, instead of 1971 - because she usually plays characters younger than she is.In essence, Hoang sued IMDb for doing exactly what she asked it to do -- verify her age. She claimed this investigative work violated IMDb's privacy policy. IMDb disagreed with this assessment (along with pretty much every other claim), stating the privacy policy is in place to protect actors' contact info -- not their date of birth, and that listing the date of birth was its First Amendment right.
But eventually, she moved from her hometown of Houston, Texas, to the more competitive entertainment market of Los Angeles, and as what would have been her fake 30th birthday approached, she decided she didn't want any age listed on her profile.
IMDb refused to remove the age listed unless she could provide evidence that it was incorrect. She asked the company to check its records to see if it had any information that would substantiate that age.
The company did so - using her account information to find her real name, and then using her real name to conduct a public records search and discover her true age. IMDb posted her real age on her profile, over her objections.
Hoang was seeking $1 million in damages for harm done to her career by having her real age outed. The jury was not convinced by Hoang's less-than-stellar case, as IMDb noted in its post-trial filing.
“Hoang did not present any testimony, documents, or other evidence supporting her damages allegations of lost income and profits. Neither Hoang nor her agent Joe Kolkowitz—her only two witnesses on damages—offered any testimony about future damages, and neither offered competent testimony on which a reasonable jury could base an award of damages for acting jobs allegedly lost to date.”Perhaps her career to date made it difficult to prove a tremendous upside was being destroyed by IMDb's callous recordkeeping. As was noted earlier here at Techdirt, she has made an appearance in Penn & Teller's Bullshit! This is in addition to roles in Gingerdead Man 3: Saturday Night Cleaver and Hoodrats 2: Hoodrat Warriors.
Of course, it isn't over until the last appeal has been exhausted and Hoang announced (pretty much as soon as the verdict was read) she will be appealing the decision. She still believes it's unfair that IMDb lists birth dates for actors and actresses and makes it harder for those of a certain age to land roles. She points out that it's illegal for employers to ask interviewees how old they are, but IMDb's listings save those in casting the trouble of skirting the law.
Whether or not another court will find this argument worth $1 million remains to be seen, especially considering Hoang's career arc to this point. She and her agent didn't seem to be too persuasive the first time around and unless they've got something more compelling than "Hollywood is ageist," this appeal will likely fail.
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Filed Under: age, breach of contract, imdb, junie hoang, privacy
Companies: amazon, imdb
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Normally, I would agree with her, but in this case, I can't. IMDB is used by everyone, including businesses looking for actors, and to lie on the page is no different than lying on a resume.
While it may be true one isn't asked for their age, they most certainly are asked on their job application.
If she's been lying on these job applications, she may very well be in for more trouble than she anticipated.
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I assume in that case they could only ask "are you at least [age of consent]?"
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That is not lawsuit worthy. If it were the courts would be clogged up with such rubbish.
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No, they are not. It would be, in most cases, illegal to do so.
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I think it would be absolutely hilarious if her financials were investigated for tax evasion/fraud.
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Kind of hard to sue for damages when when she couldn't show she was making much if anything prior to the real age issue.
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Did she expect them to confirm her fake birthday?
If she were to win it would be effectively illegal to post true information about public figures on-line, in books, movies, tv or in magazines.
It sucks that Hollywood is ageist. But it is ironic that she wants to be judge on her *appearance* rather than her age. That is, she thinks lookism is good and agism is bad because she is lucky enough to be attractive and young looking for her age. And if actors kept their IMDB headshots accurate and current casting directors probably wouldn't be as interested in the age listing. As it is I expect they call in people with young looking head shots only to find the shots are 10 years old and taken from just the right angle and in just the right lighting to make them seem younger and better looking than they are.
It is a bit ironic for people to be talking about how age discrimination is illegal in employment when they talk about casting actors. Movie and TV casting gets a bit of a free pass on things that are normally illegal. Movies are cast based on all sorts of discrimination based on protected classes, including gender and race. So it is unclear to me whether agism is illegal for casting agents or not. I'm guessing more not illegal than illegal.
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I'm not really sure who to support in this, which should we support, lookism or ageism? I want to be against ageism, but I don't really want to be saying "Yes, judge her on her **appearance**, damn you!" either.
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Re: Re: Did she expect them to confirm her fake birthday?
> her on her **appearance**, damn you!" either.
Why not? Television and movies are a visual medium and appearance is a valid criteria for choosing an actor to play a role.
When Spielberg cast LINCOLN do you think he considered pudgy, short Asian guys or only focused on tall, skinny white guys?
When they were casting for the new Jackie Robinson film 42, how much you want to bet only athletic-looking black guys were considered? White guys, Asians, Hispanics, women need not apply, no matter how talented they are at acting.
How an actor looks is as important to most roles as how well they act.
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Age vs. Looks
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They were all fully-grown adults playing teenagers.
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No, seriously - go watch the first Gingerdead Man movie. It's an hour and a half of Gary Busey being completely insane. I get the feeling they didn't even give him a script, they just had him rant into a microphone for a while and then dubbed it over the titular cookie-killer in post production.
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Okay; at least sweep QUICKLY on to the next anomaly.
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Down Blue! Bad troll!
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She looks like Cary-Hiroyuki Tagawa's transvestite twin.
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7 years!?
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Employment Law
Because it would be very illegal to make a hiring decision based on any of these things, however, most businesses are savvy enough to not ask.
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So it's not illegal to ask for that information, or even effectively illegal, but rather just practicality to not do so.
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Since when ????
Since when does Hollywood require actual proof of loss or damages????
Seems like Ms Hoang should have classified her birthdate as IP and then sued for copyright infringement.
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Who gives a shit except Hollywood?
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This is bad because IMDB!
This is bad because I'm not getting work!
This is bad because people with deep pockets owe me more!
Maybe she just needs a better agent?
This is endemic of the problem we keep seeing where people refuse to accept responsibilities for their own actions.
She posted a fake age.
She thought her fake age was getting to high and wanted them to change how they operate to please her.
Because they refused to do what she wanted, they obviously owed her money.
Because all of the misfortunes this event caused were totally everyone elses fault.
If she was so upset by her age why did she ever enter one?
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She really hasn't got a prayer
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Re: She really hasn't got a prayer
Amanda Tapping din't get hired to play a soldier at 32 years old, a doctor at 42, and an angel at 47.
Lucy Lawless didn't turn 30 during the filming of a show all about two hot women who spend all their time together and totally aren't gay. Neither did she turn 40 during the filming of a groundbreaking sci-fi series.
Gina Torres didn't star on Suits, a show all about pretty, young lawyers (and one older, ugly one that is not Gina Torres) at 40 years old.
And certainly, in no universe ever, did a 46 year old Marion Ross star in the premier of a show that would become one of the most well loved television shows of all times. Happy Days are definitely yours and mine when Mrs. C is cooking dinner.
Obviously Hollywood doesn't hire actresses over 30, and this woman has been seriously wronged. Or something.
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...and obviously a much better actress than Junie Hoang.
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What if the actor in question here was a porn star (note - Ms Hoang is in no way a porn star) and they published her real name using information from an IMDB Pro application. After doing so, there were negative consequences - stalker, family troubles or an 'honour' killing. Would IMDB be liable in any way?
Obviously the million dollar damages is silly, Ms Hoang has acted in some trashy movies, women lie about their age, Hollywood is ageist, etc. But I think those are unfortunately covering up the really interesting questions being raised here.
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Not Really Lying
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Re: Not Really Lying
Not telling the truth is called lying.
This is misinformation to protect her privacy -- big difference.
Your age is not private information.
I give misinformation all the time to those entities that have no valid right to my private stats. And Amber is not my real name. Does this make me a liar? Hell no
Yes, actually it does. That doesn't mean it's *bad* but it does mean that you lied.
There is no harm to anyone but her in this untruth.
Perhaps. Doesn't change that it's a lie. And has no impact on the legal argument.
Sometimes not telling the truth is the best and most moral thing to do.
Sure. But that's got nothing to do with anything in this case, so not sure why you'd even bring it up.
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>Your age is not private information.
Is there even a definition of private information? I would think anything you want to keep private, you have a right to try, whereas anything that anyone finds out, they have a right to publish -- absent an agreement between the parties or specific law about certain kinds of information. (There are a lot of those, though.)
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The question is, is invasion of privacy even an actionable offense when committed by a private party (not a government)? If IMDB didn't commit any illegal act to get the information (fraud, trespass, unauthorized computer access), and the information is true, is there any way they can be liable for revealing the information publicly?
If my neighbor tells me a secret and I blog about it, is there any scenario under which I could be found liable and have to pay damages?
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Maybe jockeys can conceal their weight, too - just see how the horse runs, that's the acid test. No proxies, please.
Or you could sue a john for gender discrimination if he won't...but he won't, will he, unless it's exactly that what he's there for.
Plus, don't employers need your age for legal paperwork? Do you keep your identity data private until you're hired?
And universities ask your race -- constantly, even during the application process -- pretty much to *avoid* discrimination by tracking enough statistics.
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Why in heaven's name did the douches at IMDB feel they had to post this person's age when she didn't want them to? What skin off their nose was it to simply not have an age for her? Why didn't they NOT post her age simply because she asked them to not post her age? WTF? When did fucking IMDB turn into the fucking Truth Police? If she wanted another or no age on her bio, why couldn't they just put another age on the damned page? JUST BECAUSE THAT WAS WHAT SHE WANTED AND ASKED THEM TO DO? Because who really fucking cares what age is on there, except the person whose age is on there?
I wonder if they laughed at her impotent rage. Bet it was a fucking hoot to them. Thanks a lot, guys, now I hate IMDB.
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IMDB birth dates
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I agree with her
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The 1st Amendment protects IMDB's right to publish factual information, even if someone else doesn't like it. So "the rules" you would have to change are the Constitution.
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