Evangelist Adorns Biblical Child Rearing Book With 'Modern Family' Portrait He Found Via Google
from the the-wicked-google/tv/gays-made-me-do-it dept
Maybe it's because I've had to learn how to find Creative Commons images for use in posts, but I always thought that the outrage over Google image searches was silly. I mean, I get that there is such a thing as copyright, but when Germany can't recognize that an image search isn't a violation of the law, then there has to be a mental breakdown somewhere. Likewise, when my Australian friends sue Google because a search of their name in the images tab happens to bring up pictures of the violent criminal that attacked them...I mean, what the hell?Now, having said all of that, most folks are at least smart enough to know that you shouldn't go plucking around the internet, yoinking pictures without doing at least a cursory inquiry into what that image is and who might own it, all for the use of your for-profit eBook. But, as Brig C. McCoy writes in to tell us, most folks doesn't equal all folks. Meet Doug Sehorne. Doug's an evangelist who wrote a book called Bible Principles Of Child Discipline (from the Book of Proverbs). Oh, and hey, here's the cover.
See the problem? No, not the horrific plain white text over the blue background. The image Doug Sehorne used for his book on how to go about raising your children Old Testament-style is a mock photo from ABC's Modern Family. In case you're not familiar with Modern Family, the show includes a functional homosexual couple with an adopted child. A bunch of people pointed this out to Doug, at which point he promptly apologized, admitted he should have known better than to just use images from TV shows, and thanked everyone very much for the help.
Nah, just kidding. He melted down faster than ice cream in Hell. From his Facebook page:
FALSELY ACCUSED!Okay, show of hands: who wants to take advice on raising children from this guy? Yeah, I didn't think so. Now, Doug's book, which advises parents that they cannot raise children without a good and sturdy paddle (and, no, I'm not making that up), used a copyrighted image for the cover and this was his response to being called out on it? Lord knows (get it?) we're not big on the restrictive nature of copyright, but you have to at least take a look at what you're using. Not having a television (because it's apparently wicked? WTF?) is no excuse, since he clearly has a computer and that image had to have come from somewhere.
Well, I just got a phone call about the picture I used on my Book about Child Discipline. Evidently it is from a wicked TV show involving a gay couple! Here is the situation.
1. I do not even have a TV and have not for 35 years.
2. I never heard of the TV show.
3. I got the image from a search on Google images, which I assumed were not copyrighted, etc.
4. Everyone who knows me, knows I would never condone such wickedness as sodomy or even TV.
Apparently you can't teach evangelicals about copyright without a good and sturdy paddle.
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Filed Under: copyright, doug sehorne, google images, images, modern family
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Not Among the Elect
Thank goodness he cleared THAT up. Since I don't know him, I might have rejected his book on the inference from that cover pic that he condoned both sodomy and TV - sodomy ON TV even.
Instead, he's merely a lazy, copyright violating, superstitious primitive. No problem there.
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Response to: Anonymous Coward on Aug 29th, 2013 @ 2:58pm
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Re: Not Among the Elect
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Mighty arrogant from someone who mis-spells "principles":
You're welcome.
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Re: Mighty arrogant from someone who mis-spells "principles":
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He couldn't use a pic from his normally visited websites
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So where's the shame in making a mistake and confessing it publicly soon as known?
Just learn what decent people do when despite intentions to respect copyright they bobble it.
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Re: Mighty arrogant from someone who mis-spells "principles":
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Modern Family should really...
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That reminds me people saying good things about a neighbour who was found to be a killer.
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Bummer
Nigel
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Listing of Sehorne's Apparent Religious Principles
2. What you want is ... well ... God doesn't talk to the likes of you!
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Calling out an evangelist
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You haven't seen Miley have you?
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Don't be too hard on him
That there is some quality assuming. "Hey now, I got it off the Google, so it cain't be illegal!"
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madness
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I was raised up and trained in the IFB church movement, pastoring Evangelical churches for 25 years. I am now an atheist. Not having a TV is quite typical in the IFB church movement. My wife and I didn't have a TV for years. Reason? The Bible says, I will set no wicked thing before my eyes.
I know it sounds crazy but when you are in the bubble it all make sense. It is only when you are free from it do you realize you believed some bat%^*# crazy stuff. My family and I are very glad to be free from it.
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I wonder
Biblical times "sodomy" has nothing to do with modern day sodomy.
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Re: So where's the shame in making a mistake and confessing it publicly soon as known?
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Re: I wonder
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I wonder if I will read articles here again
So if the people of faith are wrong, they have nothing to worry about. On the other hand if those living in sin are wrong they have a lot to be worried about.
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Re: I wonder if I will read articles here again
I hope you know using Pascal's Wager to argue for a person believing is not a valid argument. Basically, you are saying that I should believe in the Christian God just in case I am wrong. In other words, get fire insurance,
All Christians like Sehorne are atheistic when it comes to any other God but their own. Using your logic they should become Buddhists, Muslims, etc just to make sure they have all the God bases covered.
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Re: Re: I wonder if I will read articles here again
Dont think I was trying to convince you that you are wrong. I was simply pointing out the fact that if I am wrong I have nothing to worry about.
No, someones faith is not "fair game" Thats the problem with people today. They think anything is fair game. Someones faith is far from it.
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Yes, Barney is much more evil and disturbing than Two Girls, One Cup!
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Re: I wonder if I will read articles here again
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Thou shalt Not Steal
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Re: Re: Re: I wonder if I will read articles here again
Replace the names of all your imaginary beings with other fictional characters. Repeat your nonsense back to yourself with those new names. Listen to how absurd you sound.
Fair game.
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Re: I wonder if I will read articles here again
I look forward to the day when your kind is finally extinct: you do not deserve the privilege of living on my planet.
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Re: Response to: Anonymous Coward on Aug 29th, 2013 @ 2:58pm
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Re: Re: Re: Re: I wonder if I will read articles here again
And i find your lack of faith pathetic and sad as well, but i don't want to kill you for it. I just pity you and your senseless existence. Must really suck to live a void life.
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Re: I wonder if I will read articles here again
For the record, unlike some of the commenters, who have their own way of thinking, I don't "hate" or "condemn" everyone for their faith, just the crappy application of that faith when it applies....
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and now we come to religion...
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People like this
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I wonder if I will read articles here again
Also, just to put things in perspective, and to show what such a claim looks like from the other side, saying that someone's life is a 'void life' just because they don't believe in a deity, is like saying that someone's life must be empty because they don't believe in say, invisible garden gnomes. You don't need a belief in a deity to have a full and fulfilling life, and to claim otherwise is just mistaken.
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Re: Re: I wonder if I will read articles here again
Disagree with them if you must, but don't do so by acting just as bad as the worst examples from their side, and you never get to claim that someone is any less human simple because you don't like them or what they believe in.
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Re: Re: I wonder if I will read articles here again
And the child abuse (paddling). Don't forget that.
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Re: madness
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Religious nutter
You're an idiot. If you're wrong about your fairy tale god, the real god, if he exists, being a spiteful bastard and all, will make your afterlife ten times as hellish as any atheist's.
Dumbass...
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Re: So where's the shame in making a mistake and confessing it publicly soon as known?
This guy infringed copyright! That is the worst of the worst possible heinous crimes against humanity! Where is your outrage!
If you don't like Mike or TechDirt so much, even though neither one are pirates nor condone piracy, then why aren't you outraged against someone who brazenly stole a well known image of a well known TV show? His theft of that image makes the creators of the show unable to use the image anymore. He doesn't even apologize for his theft.
Talk about a double standard. So you must be condoning piracy in this instance.
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Re: Re: I wonder if I will read articles here again
As you lambast people for having faith, you display your own ignorance. Not because you're an atheist. But because you are an asshole. The two are not inextricably intertwined.
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Re: Listing of Sehorne's Apparent Religious Principles
1. People did not evolve from monkeys.
2. Gay sex isn't natural.
3. Life begins by conception.
4. Guns are good.
5. Hollywood is evil.
6. God is the determining factor in all wars, major sporting events, and TV award shows.
7. We must spread the good news of this Gospel of 7 basic tenants.
(That list brazenly repeated from some documentary I saw on Netflix. Sorry, don't remember which.)
Ironically, evangelicals should be instead focused on sin, man's need of God, the cross, God's plan of salvation, forgiveness, how we should love and forgive as God has done for us, etc. (Whether you believe that or not is irrelevant. That is the message you should be hearing from them.) But modern evangelicals are really a political action group. When Jesus stood before Pilate he said "my kingdom is not of this world . . . if my kingdom were of this world, then my servants would fight". What we have now is a political group that is primarily focused on building a kingdom of wealth and power that is very much of this world. Just sayin'. Also, note, you'll never hear words about the cross or forgiveness cross the lips of Fred Phelps and his gang; so who are they followers of? Basically, their own message and words should be a useful test.
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But they would show Barney to children. (which destroys brain function!)
So which is worse?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: I wonder if I will read articles here again
Put the shoe on the other foot. Always do this.
Assume for a moment:
1. that God is real
2. that you personally know this to be true despite that you cannot prove it
Now think about how silly the experiment you suggested will sound.
It would be kind of like saying: Now try replacing President Eisenhower with names of other fictional characters and see how it sounds.
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Re: I wonder
Perhaps the full sentence was "sodomy is wicked man..so cool you should tries it"
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It's the part about children keeping their mouths shut when they're abused by evangelical preachers/priests/the pope etc..
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Re: Re: Re: I wonder if I will read articles here again
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Re: Re: Re: I wonder if I will read articles here again
(and there are religions that teach this).
Anyone who can just believe something like this should be treat in the same manner as those with other recognized mental illness / delusionary states.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I wonder if I will read articles here again
Faith is not provable. It isnt facts that someone can demonstrate. You cant make yourself believe. Thats why its called faith, not fact. Your free to believe in the made up theories of man all you want. Its a form of faith because half of it cant be proved. Try proving the big bang or that the universe may cycle.
By faith I also believe that if you continue to resist Gods word, you will die in your sins, and suffer eternal punishment for those sins. Just because you resist that faith teaaches us Christ paid the punishment for believers on the cross. Believe it or not, its your immortal soul that is at stake.
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Re: Re: I wonder if I will read articles here again
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
By commenting on his belief of what God teaches you are attacking him for his faith and what God has taught. The Bible, which is Gods Word teaches that homosexuality is a sin.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: I wonder if I will read articles here again
Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Faith is not some facts that can be proved to someone. You cant convince someone to believe in God with facts. That just plays into the hands of an atheist who thinks everything must be seen and proved or else they will not believe it. But it isnt my role to prove to you anything. I cant make you believe, I cant make you do anything.
But there are some facts. All people are sinful. We each have committed sin, if nothing else if you have either held anger against another or even thought badly of your parents you have broken God's law. Because of that you are on your way to hell when you die. We all are. Only those that believe that Christ suffered and died to pay the penalty for those sins will not go to hell.
But I cant make you believe those things. It isnt just saying "I Believe!" but actually believing its true and trusting in it. Otherwise you toss away the free gift and spit on it.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: I wonder if I will read articles here again
What would you do with the hundreds of millions of dead bodies?
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Re: and now we come to religion...
Matthew 7:21-23
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: I wonder if I will read articles here again
Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Faith is not some facts that can be proved to someone. You cant convince someone to believe in God with facts. That just plays into the hands of an atheist who thinks everything must be seen and proved or else they will not believe it. But it isnt my role to prove to you anything. I cant make you believe, I cant make you do anything.
But there are some facts. All people are sinful. We each have committed sin, if nothing else if you have either held anger against another or even thought badly of your parents you have broken God's law. Because of that you are on your way to hell when you die. We all are. Only those that believe that Christ suffered and died to pay the penalty for those sins will not go to hell.
But I cant make you believe those things. It isnt just saying "I Believe!" but actually believing its true and trusting in it. Otherwise you toss away the free gift and spit on it.
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Re: I wonder if I will read articles here again
If there is a Christian hell, pretending that you're Christian to avoid it will fail, by definition.
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Re: Re: Re: I wonder if I will read articles here again
I see. I just want to make sure I have this correct, so tell me if I've gotten it wrong. You're saying that critiquing how a person applies their religion to the public via actions or speech is the same thing as critiquing the religion itself. In other words, me saying that this guy's words make him a bigoted assbag is blaspheming his faith, which you said must be respected and isn't on the table for discussion. Do I have that correct?
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Re: Re: I wonder if I will read articles here again
That's actually Pascal's wager, a philosophy that's been thoroughly thrashed ever since he uttered such a simpering attempt at theological conversion....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I wonder if I will read articles here again
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I wonder if I will read articles here again
But that isn't fact.
If I don't happen to believe in god's law then I wouldn't believe those things are sins, therefore no one would be a sinner.
Only those that believe that Christ suffered and died to pay the penalty for those sins will not go to hell.
Ahh, but there's a lot of different religions that say that if you don't believe the way we do you are going to hell. Logically that would mean everyone is going to hell, right?
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Re: Re: and now we come to religion...
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Re: Re: Re: Re: I wonder if I will read articles here again
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Re: Listing of Sehorne's Apparent Religious Principles
http://youtu.be/-j8ZMMuu7MU
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I wonder if I will read articles here again
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I wonder if I will read articles here again
let them rot?
fill a few meteor craters and dump on the lye?
i can do this all day!!!
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I wonder if I will read articles here again
and nice godwin!!!
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I wonder if I will read articles here again
every athiest I know who started christian turned after reading the bible fully, NO christian I know or have known has actually read the thing cover to cover...not a single one...
they have read the "good parts" in bible study's but never the full book..
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Re: Re: Re: I wonder if I will read articles here again
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Re: Re: I wonder if I will read articles here again
explains why their god always believes what they themselves believe, no matter what religion they are.
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Re: Re: Re: I wonder if I will read articles here again
like a friend of mine who "believes" in his wifes religion because he loves her and he dosnt want her to leave him(and she would if she knew he thought her religion was a bullshit cult)
he pretends to believe, even trys to convense himself he believes, but get a few drinks in him away from her....and down come the pretenses..
believing in a god in order to be rewarded after death or to avoid death....sorry thats not true faith.
kinda like people who believe in science but dont understand a single thing about it....and will believe anything somebody says if they say its science...
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Re: Re: and now we come to religion...
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Re: Re: Re: Re: I wonder if I will read articles here again
I think you are twisting what I am saying. I will attempt to make this as clear as possible.
1. The Bible clearly states that Homosexuality is wrong and a sin. This is found in both the new and old testaments Romans 1:26 and following is an example.
2. When a Christian speaks against a sin they should be relying on what God's word teaches on that sin. That people are committing the sin is wrong.
3. When you criticize the person for speaking out against sin you are criticizing not just the person but the teachings of the faith and in the end God Himself.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I wonder if I will read articles here again
I am a sinful human who by Gods grace has been shown the error of my ways. God is Holy, he isnt sinful and hates sin. He therefore tells me how to live the correct life, not that I am capable of doing it perfectly. But the act of trying limits the sin I do commit.
As for knowing God, I know what he has written in His Word though my flesh doesnt always like being told what it contains.
The simple rationalizations of the video are quite funniny in the way they are wrong.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I wonder if I will read articles here again
2. When a Christian speaks against a sin they should be relying on what God's word teaches on that sin. That people are committing the sin is wrong.
3. When you criticize the person for speaking out against sin you are criticizing not just the person but the teachings of the faith and in the end God Himself."
I sure hope you hold yourself to the same standard. For instance:
1. The Koran clearly states that Muslims could righteously launch offensive and graphic violent acts against infidels, people who do not believe in Islam.
2. When a Muslim speaks or acts against disbelief they should be ryling on what God's/Allah's word teaches on that disbelief. That people that don't follow Islam should die.
3. When you criticize the person who flies planes into buildings and commits suicide bombings you are criticizing not just the person bu the teachings of the faith and in the end God himself.
So, if we follow your guidelines, thou shalt not criticize Al Queada for their actions. Or are you suggesting that the respect for people's faith only apply to YOUR faith and no one else's? Because THAT would be a fun position to watch you try to defend....
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I wonder if I will read articles here again
"But that isn't fact.
If I don't happen to believe in god's law then I wouldn't believe those things are sins, therefore no one would be a sinner."
Nice try, but all people have sinned, it matters not if you think so or not. In the end you will burn in hell for even sinning once in your life. Ignorance of the law is no exception in a human court, on judgement day it will be even less of an excuse.
Ahh, but there's a lot of different religions that say that if you don't believe the way we do you are going to hell. Logically that would mean everyone is going to hell, right?
No because all other religions of the world teach works righteousness. In other words you have to do a work to gain Gods favor and earn your salvation. They all do except Christianity. The works may be different but they are all earn your way to heaven plans. But you cant give something to a creator, they created everything, they need nothing from may. Therefore Christianity free gift sets it apart from other religions and proves it to be the only true one.
But this is a product of faith. Faith isnt facts and no amount of twisting and logic manipulations will convince me that God is not real or that Christianity is not the one true path. You may think your post was funny. I seriously doubt you will be thinking that when hell's flames burn you forever for the blasphemy it contains.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: I wonder if I will read articles here again
Then they are not Christians for a true Christian would pray for your conversion and follow this passage.
Instead, "If your enemies are hungry, feed them. If they are thirsty, give them something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals of shame on their heads."*
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I wonder if I will read articles here again
I have read it through a number of times, and studied in a seminary for 3 years. I am still a Christian.
Logic can be a tool of the devil who makes some people believe that they are smarter than they are. Remember pride commes before a fall.
Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Faith is not some facts that can be proved to someone. You cant convince someone to believe in God with facts. That just plays into the hands of an atheist who thinks everything must be seen and proved or else they will not believe it. But it isnt my role to prove to you anything. I cant make you believe, I cant make you do anything.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I wonder if I will read articles here again
No one is discussing violent acts, but thanks for yet another misuse of reason. To say that a Christian speaking against sin is the same as violent acts by a Muslim is comparing apples to oranges.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: I wonder if I will read articles here again
No one can make themselves believe something like that. What you are describing is hypocrisy.
If you look someplace on the bord I replied that yet again my words were twisted to make them mean something other than I intended. I never said someone can make themselves believe something. It isnt a magic incantation that someone says "I believe" and everything is ok. The really have to believe it.
The words were not put down to try and convince anyone of anything. They were simply put down to show that if I am wrong in the end I dont have much to fear from being wrong. On the other hand if the atheist is wrong they have eternal agony to look forward to.
That wasnt some logical argument to try and convince someone that they need to do the work of believing and they should on the basis of my words somehow have faith through fear. Faith does not work that way.
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Re: Re: Re: and now we come to religion...
If you really put faith in those words and you are not simply posting them because they sound good and you hope they make you look good on a forum.
Well, I feel sorry for you and I will pray that you become a Christian before you die and burn in hell for all eternity.
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Re: Re: Re: I wonder if I will read articles here again
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_Wager
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I wonder if I will read articles here again
If it keeps me from sharing space with the psychotic, narcissistic, monstrous sociopath you appear to worship, I'd say I'd be getting the better end of the deal. Anyone sadistic enough, cruel enough, and so without any shred of mercy or decency, who tortures via proxy someone forever for a single act, no matter how vile, is not someone I'd care to spend eternity or even a day around.
But you cant give something to a creator, they created everything, they need nothing from may. Therefore Christianity free gift sets it apart from other religions and proves it to be the only true one.
Except, your own words prove that to be a lie. That 'free' gift you're talking about is anything but free, as you keep going on and on about 'worship my god or burn in hell', and something you have to pay for, is by definition not free.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: and now we come to religion...
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Re: Re: Re: and now we come to religion...
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I wonder if I will read articles here again
To look at it from the other perspective, as you seem to suggest:
If I, or someone else went around saying that religious people were immoral scum, and that they deserved to be tortured and killed unless they renounced their religion(none of which I believe mind), I'm betting you'd find that rather offensive as well, and wouldn't care or think much of the person making such claims.
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I appreciate the offer, but I require neither your condolences nor your prayers.
Have a nice life. :)
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Dont think this is some mental exorcise that can be won by a battle of facts, faith is not facts. Thats so called science that is full of things taken on faith because they cant be proven or demonstrated.
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Yet another person who thinks they can win some kind of argument and prove that God does not exist. Your wasting your time.
You wont spend any part of eternity near God, but in the torments of Hell. Thats what we all deserve because of the sin we do.
There is no work or price asked of God, only that you accept that he is there and has paid the price for your sin. By denying that He exists you deny what He has done for you. After all you cant receive something from someone you say doesn't exist. Faith receives what God offers to sinful mankind.
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That would be an intentional sin. People who intentionally sin are not Christians, they are hypocrites.
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Faith cannot be gained by debating facts with someone who does not want to believe but stubbornly resists God.I am here but to warn you of the path I see you on. If you choose to resist God and stay on the road to hell you will end up there. Repent of your sins before its to late.
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Faith is not facts and it isnt something generated by arguing with someone trying to convince a hardened hart to believe. Sadly you may never believe and if you have committed even one sin in your life you will pay the ultimate price for all eternity. Repent now before you die in your sins.
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Re-read your own comments, out of 22 comments, you've mentioned hell or eternal punishment(torture really, 'punishment' implies justification) in some form 9 or 10 times, so about half.
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I am well aware I am most likely dealing with sin hardened adults who are on the road to hell of their own choosing. Perhaps one will be converted down the road after God has used the law over time. Sometimes its not one chop of an ax that cuts down the tree but a thousand little cuts.
After all I was thinking close to the same thing in my 30's, living a life full of sin, but the Lord guided me back to the church.
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Re: Re: Mighty arrogant from someone who mis-spells "principles":
I'll take "Things That Sound Dirty, But Aren't" for 600 please, Alex.
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For the life of me, I just cannot figure out what you get out of the self-flagellation, the strident belief that humans are such terrible beings that they deserve to burn and suffer for eternity, and it's only due to the 'forgiving' nature of a master/god that saves you(from that god/master's wrath).
I mean, I get that some people enjoy humiliation(I don't understand why, but I know it's out there), enjoy being told how 'bad' they are, but to take it so far as to honestly think that humanity as a whole is so wretched that they deserve eternal torture seems to go just a titch overboard.
Common theist misconception, but you cannot 'deny' something that you don't believe exists. I don't believe in the loch-ness monster, but that doesn't mean I 'deny' the loch-ness monster, it simply means I lack evidence for it's existence such that I don't believe that it exists. Same thing with the christian god, I have yet to see compelling evidence to suggest that he/it does exist, and so therefor I default to the position of assuming he/it doesn't, no 'denying' involved.
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Besides, if your god is so eager to give people this 'gift' of not being tortured for eternity, why does he care whether people believe in him or not? If he was truly as merciful and forgiving as most religious individuals claim, then he'd be willing to spare anyone and everyone such a monstrous fate, from those that wholeheartedly believed in him, right down to those that anger him with their actions on a daily basis. No one deserves eternal suffering, I don't care how atrocious their mortal lives are, and the only kind of individual that would subject someone to infinite suffering for finite crimes, would be a sadist without compare.
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i'm giving you a 'funny' vote for sure, dude...
oh, by they way, you *somehow* slipped out of addressing the salient point of your first responder: in the pascal wager, WHY is it xtianity which is the horse you are betting on (i bet dog almighty *loves* that 'reasoning') ? ? ?
why not judaism, islam, etc ad infinitum ? ? ?
don't you have to join *ALL* religions to keep your bases covered ? ? ?
don't tell me, you have a 'reference' for that...
quite comfy that circular logic, lets no real logic interfere with your 'faith'...
see you in hell, sinner...
(i'll be wearing the beer sippy helmet...)
art guerrilla
aka ann archy
eof
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here, i've got a reference for you: let he who is without sin cast the first stone...
evidently, you xtians -and other fundies- are totally without sin, because you seem FAR MORE interested in the internal lives and thoughts of OTHERS, than your own moral lives...
art guerrilla
aka ann archy
eof
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just a suggestion...
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'cause, if you have a gun, a person will 'believe' whatever you want them to believe...
that is *generally* how a lot of religionists have gotten people to 'believe' *their* Big Sky Daddy stories...
another favorite tactic, is to take unformed children and indoctrinate them in the cult their parents are in, they are powerless to resist, and don't know any better...
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reference: none so blind...
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not only no true scotsman, but no true scotsman xtians ! ! !
what a joke, for someone who disdains 'logic' and 'rational thinking' in the context of religion, you sure do use your fatally flawed version of it (albeit in a closed system) to attempt to 'convince' others of their flawed thinking...
yep, any xtian (which begs the question: there is no defining rules for claiming to be a xtian: YOU JUST SAY YOU ARE... you're bullshit 'definition' of whoever you don't think is a good xtian, is therefore not a xtian, is a sort of arrogance you are unable to see...
self-awareness is not a strongpoint of religionists...
art guerrilla
aka ann archy
eof
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(see: bachman, michelle; cruz, ted; etc ad nauseum...)
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was it the father, the son or the holy ghost ? ? ?
(*where* did this 'holy ghost' crap come from ? ? ? do you have a reference for that ? ? ?) *snort*
as an aside, i have yet to see an explanation where this tri-partite god thing came from... which one is the biggest god, god i presume ? ? ?
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You appear to be yet another sinner who thinks they can win some sort of debate and feel better while living in sin. Repent now.
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That isnt an argument designed win some sort of discussion but a warning. You cant by facts convince someone to believe of not to believe. Your continued denial of this is interesting in that you continue to put forth more of them.
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I was wondering when someone would pull out a part of scripture, out of context and try and use it. Your quote is meant to teach against hypocrisy. Not a rule to never point out the sin of others and call them to repent. You also seem to not have read the posts where I call myself a sinner, which I am. All men are sinners. Only Christians have repented of the sin we do, and trust in Christs work of redemption.
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Repent of your sins today.
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You seem to be under some strange idea that this is a debate and you can win it. All you have to do is stick to some so called facts and you can win the battle of faith. That you can avoid the fact that all people are sinners and eventually if they die in their sins they will go to hell.
I dont have to prove anything to you. I dont have to win any debate. Faith isnt won in a debate. No one can make you believe by winning an argument in which you continue to resist one simple fact. All have sinned.
So go ahead and fill up pages of arguments. All that will happen is I will still believe and if you do not repent you will go to hell.
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Keep arguing and trying to find a way off of the path to hell. But there is only one way. Repent of your sins today. You cant dictate to God what you want or argue against His plan and hope to win.
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Logic, twisted by the sin in man is no help. You cant win an argument and convince people to believe. Just as you cant win some point and make me not believe. All you are doing is making it harder to admi you are the sinner and there is only one way off the path to hell..
All people are sinners. Repent of your sins today. Trust in Christs work of redemption.
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More factual questions designed to keep you in your sin and on the road to hell.
All men are sinners. Repent today and trust in Christs work of redemption.
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"I cant convince anyone to have faith, no man can. That would be against God's word."
What does your book say about going against god's word? Worse then that, you're not trying to just convince someone, you're trying to force them threw insult and fear.
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You also have chosen to only deal with the old testament as the new was written in Greek and has a few words translated as hell. One is αδης or hades. In Luke 16:23 and forward we read that the rich man was in αδης or hades in torment of the flames.
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I cant force anyone to believe anything. No one can, you might be able to get someone to say they believe, but there is no way of telling if they do or not except by their actions.
I am not insulting anyone and if they fear something that isn't something that would be accomplished by my actions but by their own.
Gods word says to warn sinners of the path that they are on.
All men have committed sin, all unrepentant sinners will go to hell. Repent not and trust in Christ.
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Unlike Pascal I am telling you to repent and to truly believe because God exists. To trust in God and have faith that God exists. Not just as a hypocrite say one thing and believe another. God can see into your heart and will know the truth.
Pascal was a hypocrite who thought he could cheat the system. Unless he had true faith and trust in the redemptive work of Christ he is in hell.
Part of what the is saying is true. If a Christian is wrong and the atheist is right, that nothing happens after we die, then the Christian has no consequences for being wrong. But on the other hand if the Christian is correct the Atheist has a lot of consequences for being wrong.
That does not mean that I am suggesting that out of fear that someone fake faith, just say they believe but not really believe, or try to game the system. I doubt that such would actually be belief but only a hypocritical statement or thought.
But know that if you have committed even one sin you are on the road to hell. Repent now and trust in the redemptive work of Christ.
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Seriously, it would be as simple as 'well, you've done some stuff I don't agree with, but I'm a benevolent person, so I'll forgive you', something which children can manage, but not your all powerful god apparently.
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I dont think that will work. You will probably be needing a change of underwear.
But if you are so sure you can endure the fires of hell try this little experiment. Go to the stove if you have a gas one and turn it on. If not get a cheap butane lighter. Turn the stove on or light the lighter. Now take one of your fingers and hold it in the flame as long as you can. Most people will last a few seconds perhaps. Now imagine that its happening all over you and you cant stop it. That is the path you are on.
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ftfy
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Lol. You might have missed the "Don't rely on logic alone." part, but I'll answer you logically anyways:
If you have discovered for yourself that Buddha's words are the in fact the truth and are real to you, then you are no longer "blindly following", are you?
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And, more to the point to the dispute re gayness...how does St. Paul's assurance that homosexuals cannot enter the Kingdom (esp. given that he was a noted Zealot before his conversion, and therefore steeped in radical religious conservatism) get to override Jesus' own notable lack of condemnation on the subject?
Just wondering, you know, seeing as you brought it up as accurately /translated/...
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Also, as I already pointed out below, camp-fire level scary stories and/or threats to get people to obey don't work so well on adults, and any religion that has fear and threats as it's motivation to join is one worshiping little more than a sadist or thug.
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I likes it!
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In the end, Science is fact based, and religion is faith based. They can peacefully coexist in one person, and yet this is completely outside the purpose of this article. That leaves you to be the troll under this particular bridge.
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Religion is highly personal. Keep it to yourself.
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Now...again let's to the matter of Greek, since Jim earlier declared himself to be literate in it in defending all your literalist anti-gaynesses. Remember the beginning of the Gospel of John: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God"? Well, the word /for/ "word" in Greek is "logos" - from which comes the word "logic." The concepts of language and of reasoning are theologically (uh-oh, I used "logic" again!) entwined and cannot be neatly separated because of ZOMG!!1!FAITH!
To translate for your limited human intellect, there is a logic beyond the logic which you are capable of understanding. /Trusting/ in that logic is faith. Denying logic altogether is willful ignorance and blindness.
And who do you think you are to say that you know others /don't/ have logic sufficient to their living ethical lives? What about "those who, while not having the Law, are become a law unto themselves"? You don't know, and it is not /given/ to you to know...therefore judge not, and get that bloody two-by-four out of your own eye.
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Both fascinating and sad. I honestly pity them both. My wife and I have been together for 23 years and are still as madly in love with one another as we were on day one. She comes from a Christian family and is faithful to the core, while I'm agnostic, bordering on atheism sometimes whenever I see religion used to justify something horrifying which is all too often. We get along just fine and neither of us tries to "convert" the other. I respect her a great deal for standing by her convictions 100% and have often felt that if more people were like her (kindness and doing more for others than you do for yourself), the world would be a much nicer place to live for everyone.
My own belief, besides seeing both atheism and religion as far flung extremes on the same coin, is that the will of any Gods or God, should one or more exist, would be unknowable by us mere mortals and any being that powerful isn't worth believing in if he/she/it acts immorally (i.e. punishing untold numbers of "souls" for eternity simply for being uncertain, wanting to make a more informed choice, understanding that blind faith is the most dangerous kind, and/or for not wanting to place their faith in a book written by fallible mortal men no doubt seeking control over others some 2000 years ago and ever since, because we all know without a single doubt it's mans nature and nobody is immune).
In our experience, people who vocally claim to have faith often talk the talk, but rarely walk the walk and reading the posts made here by Kcits are just another reminder of that ancient truism. If he/she was truly a believer, they'd be 100% secure in their position and wouldn't feel the need to post anything at all. On top of that, the posts made are clearly designed to incite discord and anarchy more than anything else, showing more about their true nature than anything said could.
And that is why, even though we don't share the same beliefs, I greatly respect my wife and not sad, small minded people like Kcits and Sehorne whom happily pluck quotes from their chosen tome to defend their position while at the same time blithely ignoring everything else it teaches as a whole. It's sad really and I pity them because it means that if their version of God really exists, He is not going to be nearly so happy with them as they believe. Actions (and choice thereof) speak far louder than words.
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http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20101006/17082411315/dailydirt-mistakes-science-publishin g.shtml
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Galations 5:21-22
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
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Galations 5:21-22
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
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The response you are replying to isnt trying to make someone fear but debunking the idea that they could tough it out in hell. Most people cant stand flame for more than a few seconds.
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14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
So Christ and his words are Logic by your own theory. So trusting is Christ is logical.
But I stand by my earlier statement that faith is not won in the mind of sinful may in a debate. It is the work of the Holy Ghost, working through the Gospel.
Why are you mashing together multiple verses and taking them out of context to twist them?
Romans 2:12-15
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
This section of scripture shows that God wrote the law into mans heart when he created him. That even after haveing the corruption of our human flesh by sin we still understand that killing is wrong and you should not steal or sleep with another mans wife. That there will be no excuse on judgement day for the law is known to man.
Matthew 13:10-11
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
This section was given as a response when Christs disciples asked why he taught in parables. That some people would not understand His teaching, mostly those with a hardened heart. Exactly what were you trying to prove?
Luke 6:37
Judge not, and ye shall not be judged:
Matthew 7:4
Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
These sections warn about hypocrisy. That you should not be condemning people for sins you are committing. It is not a command not to judge or to tell people they have committed sin and therefore they need to repent. God commands us to tell people they need to repent.
as proved by
Luke 24:47
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations
and
John 7:24
judge righteous judgment.
Nice try, but twisting scripture to your own ends is a sin and you need to repent of it.
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The problems of your statement are.
1.It is not loving to sit idly by as people walk down the path to Hell without warning them of the path they are on.
2.Gods Word is the words God gave the inspired writers to write down. It is not the words of sinful man. That
3. Your belief that God will not punish unrepentant sinners is common in unbelievers who imho must be trying to kid themselves into thinking they are going to be ok as long as they just ignore what will happen later.
4. Discord? Perhaps I underestimated the number of hard core sinners on this site. But if even one person stops and changes their direction from the path to hell its worth it.
I truly feel sorry for you, I hope you see the error of your ways before you die.
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Also, the Bible says that death and hell will be thrown into the lake of fire. It also says that death will be destroyed. If death is thrown into the lake of fire and destroyed, is there any reason to believe that hell, which is thrown into the same place, will not be?
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Yeah, by references from the made up theories of man, aka The Bible. Impressive.
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That's rich coming from someone believing in fairy-tales from a self-contradictory book. Well done.
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Says who? You? Your imaginary sky daddy?
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Better prepare yourself, dude. So far all you'Ve shown here is unfounded arrogance.
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So we just ahve to take your word for it? Nice try, but it's just not gonna happen.
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Which is all you're doing here, right?
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Says you. It must be true then.
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This isn't an argument about faith but DH handing your ass to you by showing what a hypocritical douchebag you are. Guys like you are almost too easy.
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Have you ever tried /not/ regurgitating itemized gobbets of scripture over everything you touch online? Trust me, it makes a far better impression of your integrity and virtue on others when you stick to practising your faith in your own right instead of telling other people what they ought to be believing - and that again, is what Jesus instructed - /not/ to go around being a judgemental nuisance in the name of your religion. Given that you can't stop nagging at everyone /else/ to repent, confess, believe, etc., I have every reason to believe that you are a hollow echo-chamber with no actual thoughts inside - which is a shameful waste of your "God-given" /potential/ for reflection and self-awareness. You profane what mental gifts you have been given when you choose to insult facts and logic instead of looking deeper and considering where truth actually can be found.
The Bible is just a book - written down, assembled, edited, translated and argued over by human minds and human agendas of conformity and the perpetuation of religious and temporal authority. It has some good ethical stuff in it (without which /any/ religion is worthless or worse), but a hell of a lot of encrusted bullshit that people need to get over already - cf. separating out the wheat from the chaff. Discernment. Wisdom. Not being a blind tool for any self-proclaimed infallibility. Literal religionists like yourself are a disgrace to human evolution - and instead of being "wise as serpents and inoffensive as doves", are dumb as posts and bombastically destructive as an elephant stampede.
I'd tell you to repent of your arrogant ignorance, but you're clearly incapable of any humility or self-examination in your current state of intellectual sin. How about this....I'll pray for your eyes to be opened to the truth. Just be prepared for a nasty headache when it hits you. O:-)
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Damn that friggin gravitational theory...
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"You're taking it out of context," is code for "I can't easily explain away this morally reprehensible passage and still justify my claim that I believe in an all loving, perfectly good God, so I'll just accuse you of not understanding the passage. Then I'll quote some warm fuzzy passage that validates my opinions out of context in order to chase away the doubt demons you've implanted in my mind. John 3:16, and all that fluffy crap."
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Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
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In the post by art guerrilla he was using "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" to try and say it proves people should not point out the sins of others. That section
is found in John 8. It is dealing not with pointing out that others have sinned, but that we should not do bodily harm to others because of sins. No one here is inflicting physical harm on anyone.
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Hate someone once, you will die and end up in hell. Lie one time, you will die and end up in hell. Covet something once, you will die and end up in hell. Have sexual desire in your heart for someone you are not married to once, you will die and end up in hell.
Repent of your sins now and trust in Christ.
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I am just letting you know if you repent of these things and have true repentance not just say it with the hope that just saying it and not being sorry will work, it wont. Trust in Christ , that he paid the penalty for the sins, and thats real trust, not just saying it but not believing it. You will have forgiveness for those sins.
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If you claim you have not sinned once in your life then you might want to look closer at the past. Have you lied, cheated, stole, lusted, coveted, hated or done anything against your fellow man in your life, even just thinking about it? Then you have sinned.
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I have standards!
No but you'd condone beating your kids. I think I'll take my advice from the "sodomites" on TV before you.
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"I got the image from a search on Google images, which I assumed were not copyrighted "
Because, you know, that's the kind of world we live in.. One where there are images that aren't copyrighted and head in the sand is a valid moral defence.
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