Former NSA Boss Hayden Says Snowden Likely To Become An Alcoholic Because He's 'Troubled' And 'Morally Arrogant'
from the funny-you-should-say-that dept
The Washington Post's Andrea Peterson has some more incredible quotes from former NSA and CIA boss Michael Hayden, who seems to have a way of saying exactly the wrong thing if he's trying to reassure those who are worried about excessive government surveillance. First up, he continues to attack anyone who feels otherwise. The same guy who insisted that people who were concerned about NSA surveillance were shut-ins who couldn't get laid has apparently decided that he can determine Ed Snowden's mental makeup from afar, despite never having spoken to the guy. He can also predict his future:Hayden predicted a bleak future for Snowden. Describing the former NSA contractor as a "defector," Hayden also called him "a troubled young man -- morally arrogant to a tremendous degree -- but a troubled young man."Of course, Snowden didn't defect. He was more or less forced into Russia by the US pulling his passport. And we should look at who's throwing around claims of being "morally arrogant" here.
Hayden further compared Snowden's prospects to those of defectors during the Cold War, saying, "I suspect he will end up like most of the rest of the defectors who went to the old Soviet Union: Isolated, bored, lonely, depressed -- and most of them ended up alcoholics."
Meanwhile, elsewhere in the talk, Hayden insisted that the intelligence community wanted to play within "the box" explaining what's legal, and said: "you're going to have to decide where the box is that you want your security services to work in." Of course, when Peterson questioned him on how the public could (a) understand where the box is today in order to have that debate and (b) suggest ways to move the box, Hayden didn't seem that interested:
When I asked how the public could tell security agencies where "the box" should be if they don't have the details of where it is now, Hayden responded, "In a perfect world I would brief the House and Senate intelligence committees and be done with it" because the more scrutiny surveillance programs receive the harder he believes it is to do their jobs.At this point, you get the feeling Hayden must have started to wonder how Peterson could have possibly gotten out of her "internet shut-in" basement and braved the outside world to go see him speak.
Oh and then there's the bit where he insists that the public is actually fine with NSA snooping... just like they're fine with targeted killings. Except, what he really meant by "the public" was "American Presidents."
At one point, Hayden also compared NSA snooping programs to other controversial programs that he says have been accepted by the public. He pointed to targeted killing, which he says two presidents have now signed off on "with some degree of enthusiasm."Note to Hayden from the internet shut-in community: having a President "enthusiastically" support his own ability to authorize spying on everyone and killing people overseas is, uh, somewhat different than suggesting the public supports it.
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Filed Under: ed snowden, michael hayden
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"I suspect he will end up like [...]: Isolated, bored, lonely, depressed -- and most of them ended up alcoholics."
No really, there's only one obligatory mention here:
There's only one obligatory remark for that:
Pot, meet kettle.
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Pot, meet kettle.
That is what I was thinking when I read it too.
I question his supposition that being isolated, lonely, bored, and depressed ends with alcoholism. While I have no scientific evidence otherwise, based on my limited experience dealing with alcoholics, it was the social aspect of drinking that led them to alcoholism, but their alcoholism turned them into isolated, bored, lonely, and depressed social outcasts. I think this is another correlation does not equal causation argument.
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Had to reread it just to be sure
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Who is suppose to protect the people from the government when there is a 90+% reelection rate?
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I've just got one question:
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Re: I've just got one question:
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to have this guy come out and say such a derogatory comment about Snowden, is absolutely disgraceful, particularly when you consider what he has done to undermine the privacy and freedom of the millions in the USA and the rest of the world. if anyone should beware of becoming anything less than a man, Hayden is one of them. what an absolute ass hole comment! and i have to ask the question, how does he know what Snowden's state of mind is, unless he and his colleagues are still illegally taping into emails and conversations that they have no right to access!
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Translation: "I don't want to have to deal with all you fucking common folk who make my job hard by not letting me overstep my boundaries."
Yes, Snowden is clearly the one in this scenario who is "arrogant."
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"I suspect he will end up like most of the rest of the... Soviet Union: ... alcoholics."
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They (NSA, CIA, whatever) have the means to fabricate an elaborate story of sexual deviance and/or economical malfeasance and/or much worse things. But no, they choose petty insults.
Hayden comes across (to the informed, at least) as a bumbling idiot, and the reputation of various three-letter agencies takes yet another hit. It just reinforces the point - After 9/11, Hurricane Katrina, the Boston bombings, and all other recent disasters - that the USA is completely incapable of handling a major crisis at the highest levels of government.
Incompetence is rampant. You people are actually lucky that the rest of the world doesn't want to annihilate you that badly. Because, given how the country is being run, they could if they wanted to...
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1/ Most countries are in little better state governmentally than the US
2/ They seem to be doing just fine at it by themselves after just the one nudge in 2001 so arguably it would be wasted effort.
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3/ the US has the ability to bomb the entire Earth into a nuclear wasteland if necessary. Don't think for a second that there's nobody in the top ranks of command with the balls to suggest nuking the enemy if the rest of the world picked a fight with the US (M.A.D. be damned!). There's probably a war hawk or three in the top military brass who'd love it if the US ever got a chance to use its nuclear arsenal.
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Competence
While these people are reading the relevant legislation via their secret decoder rings, they are also completely dismissing the mandate that the rest of the world is measuring them by and instead following their own agendas. And by those agendas, they are far from incompetent.
Each of these "incompetent" initiatives is _extremely_ competent at transferring taxpayer wealth to the corporations that supply the equipment and manpower to implement the programs. Is a $100-million abandoned software project an example of incompetence? Yes, if you measure it by the stated mandate. No, if you measure it by the software company's agenda. Is a prison system overflowing their capacity a problem? Yes if you measure it by their expressed mandate. Not at all if you forklift your skids of profits from the penitentiary-building industry.
Whenever you hear of government incompetence at levels such as this, look for the beneficiary of the "incompetence" and turn your perspective around. You will find that these are some very competent folks.
They also seem to have some amazing foresight. I have been intrigued more than once at the speed with which expensive scanners or voting machines have been ramped into production and distribution and pushed through certification following on the introduction of the legislation that enables them. It's uncanny.
Follow the tax dollars.
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There's only one way to find out:
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Townhall
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Morally Arrogant
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Morally arrogant
That includes Congress, Presidents, and mere whistleblowers, er, 'traitors'.
He's just projecting what he deals with on a daily basis- bored, lonely, depressed people -- and most of them alcoholics.
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Pulled rank
"society must make a choice between security and liberty"
That's a false dichotomy, spying on my kids does not make America safe. Spying on your allies does not make America safe, spying on politicians doesn't. Spying on Haydens own 3 kids doesn't make America safe. (And I doubt they're happy that papa's NSA was watching their every move and reporting back to him).
But he has accepted that he's taking away liberty here. Which is a positive thing. How much liberty will the NSA take away next year? Does General Hayden care to tell us? Or is that another secret to be kept from Congress?
IMHO, this is the problem with putting General's in charge. They don't have to convince or persuade people, they can just pull rank.
He pulled rank over Congress, changed the law, lied to them, kept secrets from them and so did General Alexander, the guy who followed on from him.
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Re: Pulled rank
I'm going to go with a wiser man named Ben Franklin on this one and choose liberty.
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One of the things security keeps safe is liberty. If I do not have liberty, I do not have security.
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Go home Hayden, you're drunk!
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Hayden has a bleak future. Describing NSA contractor Hayden "a troubled man -- morally arrogant to a tremendous degree -- but a troubled man."
Hayden further compared prospects to those working for the NSA "I suspect they will end up like most of the rest of the NSA: Isolated, bored, lonely, depressed -- and most of them ended up alcoholics."
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This Michael Hayden character is actually Thomas Friedman in disguise, right?
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Does he know what we don't?
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no kidding. dollars to donuts, hayden drinks heavily right now.
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Does he know what we don't?
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Advocacy?
"But he claimed the dialogue was "pushed into the public domain by advocates." In particular, he questioned the credibility of reporting by Glenn Greenwald for the Guardian and Barton Gellman for The Post."
But actually changing an entire society into an Orwellian nightmare is of course not advocating anything. The creators and benefactors of the surveillance state are just neutral civil servants with no hidden agendas or political affiliations at all.
A total lack of self awereness on display here.
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But this does makes me more paranoid. I now have visions of Alcoholic Spy's rummaging through my personal information at will and at random. Ever pull a prank when you were drunk?
I would trust a bunch of weed heads to protect my data more than I ever would a bunch of drunks. From now on my image of the NSA, FBI, SSS, CIA is that they are all a bunch of burnt-out drunks.
I feel so protected.
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I think the psychology term is "projection". And yes, it sounds like this is a good example, especially with his comments on morality.
It's the reason Hollywood makes so many movies where the villain is an out-of-control megacorporation with leaders who will stop at nothing to achieve their evil plans and who often use excessive influence over government policy to further their agenda.
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Oh, the irony
That's the irony here - EXPOSE the liars, and face exile in Russia.
BE the liar, and nothing happens.
Great country wee have here. Real exceptional.
/sarcasm
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The NSA gives information about our citizens to a FOREIGN government (Israel, among others) and the NSA apologists see nothing wrong with that.
Bizarro world.
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Bitter much, Hayden?
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Or because he now lives in Russia?
And this line of reasoning is still superior to Hayden's line of reasoning.
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Hayden
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Hayden not morally arrogant or troubled?
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Screw you, General Hayden.
Oh, fuck you, general. Fuck. You.
First of all, no, we don't have to "choose". We can have both just fine, thank you.
Second, speaking as a member of "American society", I choose liberty.
Third, what's security for? Protecting our lives and our principles. If we don't have liberty, then what's the fucking point of security.
North Korea is pretty secure (especially considering their craptastic economy, leadership... everything, really). Not a lot of liberty, is there?
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Snowden's future drinking problem
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Can we have a No-Confidence vote and get rid of him
If he is unable to control his own mouth, why would we let him control an intelligence agency.
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