Hollywood Forced SlySoft DVD Ripping Software Out Of Business, Only To Have It Return As RedFox

from the back-again dept

Thu, Apr 7th 2016 3:33pm — Mike Masnick

It never made much sense that ripping CDs in the US is considered legal, while ripping DVDs is somehow horrible piracy. If anything, it seemed to be an artifact of history. Either way, it was much more difficult for people to rip DVDs. However, whenever the issue would come up, most people would point to SlySoft's AnyDVD product, which was a clunky, but functional bit of software for getting around DRM and ripping DVDs. The company was based in Antigua and had been around for years. So it took some people by surprise when it announced it was shutting down due to regulatory changes earlier this year. It looked like Hollywood had done what it normally does and scared an innovative company it didn't like out of business. But, as reader Derek points out to us, it looks like it only took a week or so before former SlySoft employees resurfaced in Belize with a new offering called RedFox, using a somewhat similar logo.

As the RedFox folks explain things:

The RedFox team consists of former SlySoft developers and staff members who were left without a job after the company was forced to close down for good on February 22nd, 2016.

It looked like the fox would be gone for good as its burrow ceased to exist with SlySoft.

Being left without any infrastructure and nothing but our forum still running, we were about to give up. After the shock wore off we considered our options and the overwhelming support of our community convinced us to pick up the pieces and continue the development.

It kind of makes you wonder what the hell is the point of trying to shut down a tool like SlySoft in the first place, doesn't it?

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Filed Under: copyright, dvd ripping
Companies: redfox, slysoft

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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 7 Apr 2016 @ 3:44pm

One wonders how much it cost the **AA's for this 'win'.
All of that effort, and somehow they still can't put the genie back into the bottle.

Why do we keep listening to an industry that thinks they can somehow magically make everyone else pretend its 25 years ago and this was never created?
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Apr 2016 @ 3:47pm

it makes me wonder why no one in government has the balls to ask why it needs to be in existence in the first place! there has to be millions of people using it who, if the ridiculous self containing rules the entertainment industries get put in place by 'encouraging' those in government and the security forces weren't there!
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Apr 2016 @ 3:54pm

RedFox, please take my money! Hollywood, please FOAD!
And to quote Forrest Gump, "That's all I have to say about that."
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Apr 2016 @ 3:57pm

CD's are not copy protected, most DVD's are. It's the anti-circumvention clause in the DMCA that it the issue here. It isn't some arbitrary distinction.
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Richard (profile), 7 Apr 2016 @ 4:02pm

Re:
CD's are not copy protected, most DVD's are. It's the anti-circumvention clause in the DMCA that it the issue here. It isn't some arbitrary distinction.

That IS an arbitrary distinction.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Apr 2016 @ 4:20pm

Re:
The very fact that DMCA says YOU cannot rip a DVD that YOU legally purchased is an arbitrary distinction that renders the property rights of the purchaser null and void.

And since the DMCA was enacted AFTER the DVD was created (1998 vs 1995) it is a wholly arbitrary distinction, not a technical requirement, that serves to make the legal purchaser a criminal if they try to rip the DVD to use the information in a way of their choosing.

Hollywood - making criminals out of people who actually purchase their products.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Apr 2016 @ 4:28pm

Re:
"You can copy this physical media disc but not this one, because we said you can't copy this one!"

Totally not arbitrary.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Apr 2016 @ 4:28pm

Re: Re:
I never understood this though; I've always abided by the DMCA and let the authorized software decrypt the movies... after which I re-encoded them in whatever format I wanted and stored the DVD away somewhere safe.

You can't tell me that it's illegal to record the video and audio coming out of my own computer can you?
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Apr 2016 @ 4:29pm

Re: Re:
> DMCA says YOU cannot rip a DVD
Making a personal copy of an unencrypted DVD is fair use. Most these days have copy protection but for the ones that don't it's as easy as dragging and dropping.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Apr 2016 @ 4:33pm

Re: Re:
You can copy for personal use as long as you aren't circumventing copy protection. The merits of the law are debatable but the formal logic is valid.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Apr 2016 @ 4:35pm

Re: Re:
The DMCA restrictions have nothing to do with the format and everything to do with DRM circumvention. Why is that so hard to understand?
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JoeDetroit (profile), 7 Apr 2016 @ 4:59pm

My AnyDVD updated
My AnyDVD HD informed me of an available update just a couple days ago. Clicked on it & got the latest version. They are honoring my lifetime subscription.

My license was purchased many years ago. Not that I am easily pleased with software but I never found it clunky at all.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Apr 2016 @ 5:03pm

Re: Re: Re:
Because the DRM blocks you from exercising the right to make a personal copy. Not rocket science.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Apr 2016 @ 5:04pm

Re: Re: Re:
Right, except there is copy protection, and so you CANNOT legally copy for personal use.

Your games are tiresome.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Apr 2016 @ 5:13pm

Re: Re: Re:
One might argue because there is some kind of protection on the DVD that you aren't supposed to be able to copy the content. Therefor if you do copy it you violate the DMCA no matter how you do it.

But I guess that depends on how the DMCA is phrased.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Apr 2016 @ 5:14pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
"right to make a personal copy"

Sadly this doesn't exist. It's a great idea though. You should definitely write your legislator to amend the Constitution.

But a more reasonable course of action would be to be to repeal the anti-circumvention clause of the DMCA or simply stop buying products with DRM. The only reason DRM exists is because people are willing to continually give money to these large powerful corporations that do it.

Luckily that's beginning to change with the success of DRM-free media. https://www.techdirt.com/blog/casestudies/articles/20111222/12435717172/louis-ck-over-1-million-sale s-just-12-days-drm-free-download.shtml
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Apr 2016 @ 5:24pm

Re: Re: Re:
You can't tell me that it's illegal to record the video and audio coming out of my own computer can you?

Have you seen the lengths that the MPAA will go to in order to define something as a "public performance"?
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RedFoxOne, 7 Apr 2016 @ 5:31pm

Re: My AnyDVD updated
They have stated in their forums that once the new AnyDVD HD goes on sale, you will have to pay again. For now the lifetime license will work until they are ready to ask for everyone to pay again.
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Pixelation, 7 Apr 2016 @ 5:38pm

Because Duh!
Terrorism. Terrorists might make a video on DVD and we need to be sure Hollywood can save us.
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Rich, 7 Apr 2016 @ 6:45pm

They do you say the software is "clunky"? I think it works very well.
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NeghVar (profile), 7 Apr 2016 @ 7:23pm

Re: Re: Re:
Welcome to the analog hole. Blue-ray and HDMI was the answer to that. From player to viewer, it maintains an encrypted digital signal. Better known as HDCP.
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NeghVar (profile), 7 Apr 2016 @ 7:29pm

I don't care
I don't care what the rules are. I'll still buy discs and rip their content with functional software. As long as you don't share your videos, you won't appear on their radar.
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got_runs? (profile), 7 Apr 2016 @ 7:35pm

DVDFab does a much better job at something..
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br0adband (profile), 7 Apr 2016 @ 7:50pm

From all the reports I've read on this situation, this was more a money-grab than anything else - it's the same company, same people working for them, doing the same old same old but one thing they're not doing is honoring the "lifetime" licenses that so many people purchased for AnyDVD and AnyDVD HD and expecting people to repurchase them all over again.

While that's not going to happen, I can't help but think that this was not the right solution to the problem of Hollywood targeting them for some kind of legal action.

Their software is very popular in terms of piracy, this particular action of stiffing all the people that sank money into the product will just cause those people to now resort to pirating the newer versions of the software to get what they paid for.

Some companies/people just never learn.
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Apr 2016 @ 9:00pm

Screw DMCA
They should lobby to make any software illegal that makes DRM useless. Then they don't have to worry about things like this because even if a new company pops up it is by default illegal to posses the software.

If you doubt that this can be done then take a look at Germany. Having a copy of AnyDVD or any software that circumvents DRM or any kind of protection (i.e. to check if a website is safe) will lead to 2 years in prison or a fine (iirc §202c StGB).
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Anonymous Coward, 7 Apr 2016 @ 9:07pm

Re:
"Their software is very popular in terms of piracy"

Their software is very popular in terms of preventing to render an investment mute because it got scratches after using it. Some DVD players don't want to play a DVD if it has even the slightest scratches which are common after playing and removing it a few times from said DVD player.

Also, still waiting for an example where someone used a gun in said piracy charges. Which if you stick to the law is necessary to count as piracy.
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techflaws (profile), 7 Apr 2016 @ 9:42pm

But, as reader Derek points out to us

Or others that submitted this weeks ago ...cough...
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Apr 2016 @ 1:11am

Re:
"this was more a money-grab than anything else - it's the same company, same people working for them, doing the same old same old but one thing they're not doing is honoring the "lifetime" licenses that so many people purchased for AnyDVD and AnyDVD HD and expecting people to repurchase them all over again."

There's your "innovation" lol
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Christopher (profile), 8 Apr 2016 @ 4:23am

Re:
Simple answer: They have oodles of cash and think that automatically makes them worthy of respect.

Wait a minute..... 'have oodles of cash'. Hmm.... how is 'piracy' harming them again?
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Seegras (profile), 8 Apr 2016 @ 4:24am

Re: Re:
Gun? Not really, you could also use sabers, or boxcutters for that matter.

Piracy: 1 the practice or an act of robbery of ships at sea;
2 a similar practice or act in other forms, esp. hijacking.
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Seegras (profile), 8 Apr 2016 @ 4:27am

Re: Screw DMCA
You're missing one point: Any software that allows playing back anything containing DRM also makes that DRM useless.
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MadAsASnake (profile), 8 Apr 2016 @ 5:09am

Re: Screw DMCA
So the software in my player becomes illegal? How am I supposed to play it then?
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Apr 2016 @ 5:11am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
The thing is - it does not matter, if there is "some kind of copy protection", or nothing at all. CSS is badly designed and has been "broken" by a teenager. Since then it does not work.

I can come up with other "kinds of copy protection". Say - ROT13. Or better yet - just xor everything with 0x5a. Or even better - xor it with 0. And then you're not allowed to "break" it. So - the "copy protection" is irrelevant (as I can just xor with 0), only the "we do not want you to copy" is.

And then the difference between CDs and DVDs seems more bizarre yet.
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SMobius (profile), 8 Apr 2016 @ 5:12am

Re: Cd's aren't copy protected
It's been ages since I came across one which was but, but this is mainly due to the existence of software like this. They gave up on that battle. They did try for a while though.
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MadAsASnake (profile), 8 Apr 2016 @ 5:13am

Re:
So if copy protection works, why do they need a law to stop people getting around it? If it doesn't work, then how can it be called copy protection?
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wereisjessicahyde (profile), 8 Apr 2016 @ 5:17am

Because...
"It kind of makes you wonder what the hell is the point of trying to shut down a tool like SlySoft in the first place, doesn't it?"

Because... people get paid to shut down a tool like SlySoft, that's why. It's an industry in itself.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Apr 2016 @ 5:30am

From A to B
Let's hope the Antiguan government regrets the lost tax revenues that Belize gains from hosting a company that produces and markets an internationally known and popular software product and that Belize recognizes the risks of failing to protect its natively incorporated businesses.
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JoeDetroit (profile), 8 Apr 2016 @ 5:55am

Re: Re: My AnyDVD updated
This makes me a little sad. Not horribly sad, just a little. I'm glad AnyDVD is not dead, I'm sad about investing any cash for me needs. All I really do is time shift. Rent when I have the time, watch when I have the time. This is just a convenience thing.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Apr 2016 @ 5:59am

Re: Re:
well mostly it forces them to steal more from the actual artist...you know to make up the difference from what they are making and what they deserve to make. And the artists have started to notice so they need something/someone to blame.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Apr 2016 @ 6:01am

Re: Re:
Piracy is when you overpower your victim and take what is theirs by force. So overpower artists and take their copyright.

Oh what the heck, too much effort to continue.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Apr 2016 @ 6:08am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
The only reason DRM exists is because people are willing to continually give money to these large powerful corporations that do it.

shouldn't that be the only reason it exists is that it can be circumvented
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Apr 2016 @ 6:11am

Re: Re:
Now the **AA's can sue them for stealing their bussiness plan!
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Apr 2016 @ 6:15am

Re: Re: Screw DMCA
buy another copy only in new screwthecustomer TM format available from the **AA'a ****

*** new format not guaranteed to last more than 10 days, after which you will be required to repurchase your entertainment and new hardware to view/listen to it on.
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nasch (profile), 8 Apr 2016 @ 7:51am

Re: Screw DMCA
Circumvention software is already illegal, I think. That's why the companies that make aren't in the US.
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Anonymous Coward, 8 Apr 2016 @ 12:58pm

I have four kids under 10 and I am a slysoft lifetime customer
Thank goodness for Slysoft. They allow me to I need to do with the media I have purchased. For example, we have seen amazing results teaching ours kids baby sign language. I have purchased at least 20+ DVD's from signingtime.com because they are the best. To protect my investment I use slysoft to rip my DVD's and put the rip up on my personal Plex media server. From there, my wife and I use our Roku box to play whatever show we want to play when we want to play it without fear of messing up a "master" DVD.

Notice the deliberate use of the word "my"? It is because that is exactly what they are. Mine.

I could go on but I am just very grateful that slysoft gives me ability to do what I want with the media I own.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Apr 2016 @ 5:54am

Re:
No, it absolutely does not.
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tomt (profile), 9 Apr 2016 @ 11:13am

Slyfox Redfox
Latest blue-ray disc dropped through the letter box earlier today. (The Night Manager). I had hoped it would be copied tonight in readiness for the train journey to work on Monday. Then I discover that I can't take a copy anymore. Now trying to find the BD slot on my iPad. Any help?
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Wendy Cockcroft, 11 Apr 2016 @ 5:51am

Re: Re: Re:
That's exactly what the record companies and studios actually do. "Want a contract? Sign away your copyright."
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Alan, 26 May 2016 @ 10:26pm

Fuck them pursues paid over 100$ for a program that they want to re sell me hope you go out of business and become homleds
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cj47, 27 May 2016 @ 6:00am

Pure greed. Hurts the economy my ass!
1. I resent being harassed, intimidated, threatened and basically accused of a crime when I sit down and try to watch a BluRay disc that I either rented or actually bought.

2. Who's "economy" is it supposedly "hurting?? Surely can't be the studio drones and actors considering the mansions these people live in.

3. This is nothing but pure Republican capitalist greed. Period. They never have enough!
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Fcorona (profile), 17 Jun 2016 @ 1:51pm

If I was a conspiracy theory nut, I would say that the movie industry is actually bankrolling these type of programs. They figure people are going to find a way to copy discs no matter what they do so why not get some cash by getting them to pay yearly subscriptions.
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me, 24 Aug 2016 @ 10:37am

Re: Pure greed. Hurts the economy my ass!
"This is nothing but pure Republican capitalist greed."

The DMCA was passed by unanimous vote in the US Senate and signed into law by then-President Bill Clinton.
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buddha mouse, 25 Aug 2016 @ 10:43am

Pure Greed
Of course this is pure greed... on the part of Slysoft. Need more cash? Just close the company and open it under a new name. That way you don't have to honor any of the previous lifetime licenses and you can sell all new ones. This is not the first software that I have purchased with a life time data subscription where the company came up with a "new version" or "Different program " that amazingly wouldn't work with your old data unless you bought another subscription. greed, greed, greed!
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Anonymous Coward, 28 Sep 2016 @ 7:05am

Re: Re: Re:
About as sensible as saying you can eat your meal as long as you don't touch it!
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Papa Nick, 27 Jan 2017 @ 7:05pm

Re: Pure Greed
Slysoft/Redfox ? They ripped me off of a lifetime subscription. I purchased DVDFAB lifetime. Lets see how long that lasts?
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ida, 4 Feb 2017 @ 1:37am

slyfox
Most DVDs are NOT ENCRYPTED. Almost any of them can be ripped with dvd shrink and made into a duplicate dvd with simple burning software in a pc hard drive. Audiences are getting tinier for quality boomer movies, so studios are trying to minimize financial loss by making the harder to duplicate, the newest wrinkle being dividing the chapters into 30 or more separate tiny dvd vob file groups ordinary dvd shrink cannot handle.
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Anonymous Coward, 4 Feb 2017 @ 2:06am

DMCA has no legal teeth. Its essentially a scare tactic of the film industry that many folks on this forum are reacting to as if its true when it isn't. Here's something neither techdirt nor anyone else explained. How did Guiana get forced into putting slysoft out of business. Why is that such a mystery? I'd appreciate an answer and noone is providing it.

DMCA is a sham. The Sony Supreme Court ruling allowed the making of vhs copies of films. The studios still tried to stop copying but didn't succeed. The Studios tried to get laws through Congress years later to prevent copying, but silicon valley's lobbyists stopped it in its tracks.

DMCA is just a big scare. The studios employ outsource people to attempt to shake down those who the studios can INTIMIDATE into paying them a fee for making a copy from a torrent. The warnings on DVD menus are crap. They sometimes mis-state the truth of the law, sometimes state it truthfully, but in either case, they are not actionable crimes, they are merely civil matters. Outsourcers can try to shake down torrent users if they can find out who they are, but there's no legal machinery behind them. The cases don't got to court.

Most Internet companies comply in part with the DMCA notices, but withhold the shakedown language from the emails because they righteously refuse to take part in a shakedown. At bottom, most of the big internet operations support their customers in these matters, and only comply with DMCA by sending the edited notice. A few of the smaller companies include the complete DMCA and shakedown. But most don't. I've heard of no one being taken to court, but it is possible. Because of the Sony rule which the studios have never contested because they're afraid they'd lose again, that is where the matter stands.

Why haven't journalists learned why Antigua shut Slysoft down?
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DatKat, 18 Apr 2017 @ 1:04pm

I'd like to weigh in.
I have an optical drive that allows me to play the copy protected media/discs. I also have software that allows me to view what the optical drive is playing. With this being said, do I now have the right to record my own desktop or take screenshots of my own desktop? How far can legalese go in terms of this example. I am clearly not breaking any copy protection, nor am I using any software that does so. Can "they" actually argue and or tell me that I cannot record video of my own personal computers desktop just because I just so happen to be watching a movie? I just think that, this is valid. It scares me to think about such things, but we must!!!
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DatKat, 18 Apr 2017 @ 1:19pm

I'd like to weigh in.
I suppose these days it doesn't matter as much as it once did. CDs are almost extinct and soon, I believe DVDs and the like will also be gone. Companies pay for using the digital data and we pay only to view/listen and never will we own it. I figure that this is the solution to their issues. This upsets me because I really enjoy ripping CDs and other media. Mainly for the fact that I prefer different qualities some of which I cannot find from certain companies. Also, can you purchase an MP4/H.264/AAC movie to play on your mboile devices as quickly as you could purchase a regualr DVD or Blue Ray movie? Or how about purchasing nice CDs in flac? not as easy as buying that regular CD and ripping it to flac OR mp3 yourself? finally, I notice that when I rip my CDs to mp3, the quality of my rips are better than what i hear coming from itunes. That's just sad :D
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Archie Fatcacky, 11 Jul 2017 @ 5:10am

RedFox Have Control Issues
I questioned the links between Slysoft and RedFox on the RedFox forum and suggested that a better policy would be to be more honest about them, I have subsequently had my IP address blocked so I can now no longer access the forum (actually they blocked the IP address at my local coffee shop but that’s by the by).
If you wish to enter into a financial relationship with a company who have such a dictatorial approach to the people who pay their salaries then that’s down to you but these people now have my personal details and have (theoretically) blocked me from contacting them. Just remember the same thing could happen to you if you sign up and have a problem.

There is a debate about whether they have exploited people financially with regard to having to re-purchase the software. They claim not as ‘there is no connection with Slysoft’ (see below). Think about this – if it wasn’t to do with finances then they could have just carried on with the exact same model, with the exact same customers, with the exact same licences as with Slysoft and they would have continued with the exact same revenue stream. The fact that they have torn up the old Slysoft lifetime licence agreement to ask those customers to pay again is proof that it is financial. They needed the money to continue despite there being virtually no set up costs to continue trading. Did they do this deliberately? They won’t tell you so make up your own mind based on the evidence.

Redfox claim there is ABSOLUTELY NO connection between them and Slysoft. There are two moderators on their forum – RedFox1 and Ch3vr0n who will point this out to you if you try to claim differently – try it, you’ll get a response within a minute and the thread will be closed. The thread that I originally added to was ‘tidied up’ and closed and then I got a PM from RedFox1 warning me about what I was writing and he then put an automatic follow on any future posts I made. These people have serious control issues.
I pointed out that the logo is the same with the addition of a Zorro mask, THEY have stated that The RedFox team consists of former SlySoft developers and staff members, the website was identical (just find and replace Slysoft with RedFox), the program is the same just re-badged, they still run the old Slysoft OPD database, old Slysoft software still points to upgrading to RedFox software - the list is endless but they state that because it is a different CEO and Slysoft was a company but RedFox is a ‘closed project’ then there is NO connection. They will not concede any connection and this is my beef and what is really riling a lot of people. It’s as though if they do they will have to honour Slysoft’s lifetime licence or something. This is the attitude of the people you will be dealing with if you give them your money.

My last point is this – if you are contemplating a lifetime licence go to speak to some of those who bought a Slysoft lifetime licence shortly before they closed and see if it is a good idea. It is an atrocious business model – think of it as an everlasting lightbulb. Once everyone has got one there is no more money coming in – and sooner or later the revenue stream will again collapse and the company will close and rise again like a greedy phoenix somewhere else…
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supersaiyaman, 29 Oct 2017 @ 11:57am

Re:
they need cash in order to maintain doing their work.a lifetime license means as long as they don't get shut down the old slysoft got shut down and they had to move. so you have to pay again makes sense to me. as long as i can rip[ the disks that i bought and keep the disc in a safe place i will gladly pay every few years.
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Dark Aster, 19 Mar 2018 @ 9:11pm

Re:
I want to be able to rip my DVD's so I can watch them on a media centre. If I can't, then I don't buy the movie, and don't watch it - look what happenned to The Last Jedi, an example of hollywood enforcing political correctness, and they paid the price to tune of 1 billion in lost revenue - People will just loose interest in watching movies, which is far more damaging to their industry, with viewers, there is no industry, full stop.
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nasch (profile), 20 Mar 2018 @ 9:55am

Re: Re:

look what happenned to The Last Jedi, an example of hollywood enforcing political correctness, and they paid the price to tune of 1 billion in lost revenue

What billion in lost revenue?
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Laura, 13 Apr 2018 @ 12:41pm

Re: I have four kids under 10 and I am a slysoft lifetime customer
I am literally trying to do the same thing right now. I want to make a copy of my Signing Time DVD’s but it won’t let me copy them!! Any tips would be appreciated.
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ida tarbell, 15 Apr 2018 @ 1:13am

There's no law against ripping DVDs in the states if you can manage encrypting, in the event there is any. There mostly isn't. Once in awhile, some dvds will encrypt, mostly not. That $250,000 fine loudly stated at the beginning of some dvds is a farce. The law only applies to folks who re-sell dvd copies in bulk. The producers are attempting to scare people out of using software to make copies. In fact, the Sony decision regarding videotape recorders, now ancient history, still applies. The Supremes said one could record. The MPAA and its members chose not to appeal again when they moved to the DVD for fear they would lose as they did in the Sony decision. Later, a new MPAA head replacing Jack Valenti, tried to get Congress to pass SOFA laws that would have prevented DVD ripping. Lobbyists for Apple, Google, Microsoft, Amazon and others killed the bill dead in Congress, which refused to consider the MPAA's pet bill. The result is the Sony decision, lacking any other on the subject, still stands. I suspect the point of streaming is really the regaining of control of the video in the home marketplace once DVDs are no longer distributed. I don't think DVD blanks will ever disappear, however, even if the commercial DVD does, and I don't believe the commercial dvd will disappear either. Its just far better than the quality one gets from streaming. Streaming simply isn't first rate. Even if streaming was the only way for home distribution, I believe the canny outside folks who make freeware, would create some that works anyhow and distribute it for nothing as they have in the past. That's one of the reasons the industry is generally moving toward reducing software ON COMPUTERS, shifting nearly everything to the cloud, leaving computer owners unable to use freeware to perform miracles on computer hard drives. If they could the video industry and others would simply eliminate the canny and useful freeware that has been the hallmark of the net from its first moment. The net is changing, however. The future workarounds aren't always immediately visible.
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