71% Want The Dark Net Shut Down, Showing Most Have No Idea What The Dark Net Is
from the blame-the-tools dept
Much like encryption, Tor and the dark net are frequently demonized. One, because they're simply poorly understood by the vast majority of the public. And two, because like any tools, they can be used for good, evil, or old-fashioned chaos. That this isn't the tool's fault is -- for some annoying reason -- a very difficult idea for some people's brain matter to digest.The latest case in point is a new survey by Ipsos of 24,000 people worldwide, commissioned by the Centre for International Governance Innovation (CIGI). The survey found that 71% would like to see the dark net shut down. More specifically, 36% "strongly" felt this way, while 35% "somewhat" felt this way. The full survey was conducted across 24 countries (pdf), and found that the percentage of those pushing for this shut down was greater in some countries than others:
...The survey findings demonstrate that citizens in some countries are much more likely than others to believe the “Dark Net” should be shut down: those in Indonesia (85%) and India (82%) are most inclined to believe it should no longer exist, followed by residents of Mexico (80%), China (79%), Egypt (79%), South Africa (77%), Pakistan (76%), France (76%), Great Britain (76%), Brazil (73%), Canada (73%), Australia (72%), the United States (72%), Turkey (71%), Tunisia (69%), Italy (68%), Germany (67%), and Poland (65%). Among the least likely to believe the dark net should be shut down are Japan (63%), Nigeria (62%), Hong Kong (62%), Kenya (61%), South Korea (61%) and Sweden (61%).In other words, a majority of citizens not only think the dark net should be shut down, but they're also making it very clear they have no idea what the dark net is. Shutting down the dark net would require finding and shutting down some 7,000 secret Tor nodes worldwide. Given how well anti-piracy efforts have gone in trying to shut down BitTorrent websites using IP addresses on the public Internet, just how well do people think this really would go? And that's just Tor; you'd also need to shut down other dark net access avenues like I2P or Freenet, then magically ban any new technologies from being developed.
In other words, it's simply not happening. After some scary references to child abuse and assassinations, the press release from the Canadian think tank that funded the survey effectively acknowledges as much:
"The anonymity of the technology of the Dark Net cuts both ways — while people can use the network for villainous purposes, people can also use it for good," said Eric Jardine, CIGI research fellow and Dark Web expert. "Despite public opinion, shuttering anonymity networks is not a viable long-term solution, as it will probably prove ineffective and will be costly to those people that genuinely benefit from these systems."So, yes, while you certainly can order high-grade Afghan heroin over the dark net, those able to look past their fear for a few moments usually realize it's also an incredible tool for whistleblowers, political dissidents, and anybody else that may not want an oppressive or just plain old over-eager government sniffing and rifling through their communications. Babies, bathwater, etc.
Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.
While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.
–The Techdirt Team
Filed Under: dark net, encryption, tor
Reader Comments
Subscribe: RSS
View by: Time | Thread
New Brave World
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: New Brave World
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: New Brave World
Without that, the poll question becomes virtually meaningless.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: New Brave World
Now, whether FB really manages its keys to WhatsApp so that it can't crack anything is another question. The only way to have verified software like that is open-source.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
The talking heads talk about going dark!!! And this is the DARK NET, its the same...
If we can just get rid of it, we'll all be safer!!!
Of course without the Dark Net, we would not learn about news the powers that be don't want out there. We would not learn about how people are tortured and murdered for daring to think they have rights.
Yes some people can do bad with the Dark Net, just like those cops who used NCIC to stalk women & find targets for abuse for their buddies... perhaps we should shut now NCIC as well.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
BTW, your first line about the TV shows is spot-on! Always such bullshit when it comes to computers and the Internet, that this doesn't really surprise me.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: That TV show
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Dark net
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
This has been done solely to get just this reaction from the clueless.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
bet I can make 50% who feel strongly about it...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Wrong Question
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
In other news....
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: In other news....
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Incorrect Conclusion
Hate to jump to the obvious, but a lot of people (I'd wager the majority) would like to "shut down" child abuse. Just because it would be nearly impossible doesn't stop them from wanting it.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Incorrect Conclusion
I'll just put this here:
Homosexuals.
Pedosexuals.
Heterosexuals outside of marriage.
Interracials.
What is the common denominator between these? Answer: All were used or are currently used as a boogie man for society.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Incorrect Conclusion
But I more or less understood what you mean.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Incorrect Conclusion
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Incorrect Conclusion
I can. Thinking that something ought to be shut down implies that they think there is some distinct entity called the "dark net" that can be shut down. But such a distinct entity does not exist. The term "dark net" refers to a whole bunch of independent and very often entirely unrelated different services and activities.
So saying something like "the dark net should be shut down" is a nonsensical thing to say, and betrays a fundamental lack of understanding.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Heroin?
Link plz
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
the dark net and tor are different
The press loves the Dark Net with its suggestive connections to terrorists and other evil doers. Which means that educating the public on the reality of the situation is unlikely. That would mean they would have to dream up the 'Next Scary Thing' versus doing journalists type of work. Like educating the public that the internet isn't a series of tubes where evil lurks.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: the dark net and tor are different
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
71% of all people will support anything if the question is phrased correctly.
And in unrelated news, 71% of all surveys use 71% to represent the majority opinion.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
71% Want The Dark Net Shut Down
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: 71% Want The Dark Net Shut Down
That is not how samples work.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
What question did they actually ask?
or
"Some evil dictators want to shut down technologies that allow critical journalists and peace movements to communicate safely. Should they be allowed to do so?"
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: What question did they actually ask?
That's what I want to know too. The linked story doesn't quote the question in full.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Find the sources, find the distributors, ... Plenty of work for the authorities - they should show how good they are in doing instead of talking.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Chocolate, Coffee, and Computer Networks...Dark is Better!
You want *DARK*, go with Freenet on a Linux box with full-disk encryption. Speaking of which, this article reminds me that I need to go donate a little more storage and bandwidth via my node.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Winning the war of words
The Light Net.
The Enlightened Net.
The Freedom Network.
The Uncensored Network.
Etc.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Heroin
Oh noes, someone can get high without going to a local drug dealer? How will the Sheriff get more money and guns for the drug war if this catches on? And think of all the small businessmen who will put out of business. It will be like Borders book store and Blockbuster Video all over again.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Technical misrepresentation
Any encrypted communication is part of the dark net even though there's no such thing as a dark net. It is encryption used on the internet.
And most people don't understand that if there's this "dark net" with encryption it means that there's this net that is secretive and hidden. The same could be said of the Panama Papers. That represents the rich going dark.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Technical misrepresentation
Can you link to any kind of authoritative reference for that claim? Because I'm connected to techdirt.com right now with an encrypted connection, but I've never heard that referred to as the dark net. In short, I'm pretty sure your definition is the one that's wrong.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Technical misrepresentation
You are correct, though, in that Tor -- while it can be used to facilitate a "dark net" -- is not the dark net itself. In fact, it's not even used by a lot of the "dark net".
I hate the term "dark net" for the same reason that I hate the term "cloud": it's meaningless marketing babble.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Can you turn off the "dark-net
How did that official, continuous and constant tune go?
oh yeah,
Beware the Dark Net = Evil: Drugs, Prostitutes, Child Porn, Terrorists....... why, Dark Net almost sounds exactly like - daaaaaaarknessssssss
Beloved Internet = Games, Money, Sports, Money, Social Media, Money, Sex, Money, Entertainment, Money, Advertisement, Money, Money, Money.....
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Can you turn off the "dark-net" without turning off the "Internet"?
How did that official, continuous and constant tune go?
oh yeah,
Beware the Dark Net = Evil: Drugs, Prostitutes, Child Porn, Terrorists....... why, Dark Net almost sounds exactly like - daaaaaaarknessssssss
Beloved Internet = Games, Money, Sports, Money, Social Media, Money, Sex, Money, Entertainment, Money, Advertisement, Money, Money, Money.....
The numbers shown will likely resemble closely, the numbers derived from a polling of the same people; about how many believe their government's are Not Lying to them.
In other words, public opinion based solely on the collective (societal/national) belief in the veracity of official sources of information, and thus, opinion based on mainly unquestioning self-imposed ignorance, with the help of institutionalized for-profit misinformation and propaganda.
The poll results I'd be interested in seeing, would be thus:
Should a politician - due to their intimate familiarity with all things officially secret and their intimate interactions with others of similar and dis-similar "positions" around the globe, gained at public expense -be held to higher account for his/her deeds in and out of politics, until they die?
or...
Does the Lazibird lay its egg in the air?
---
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
oops
Possibility that the key-stroke itself was sole cause and cursor position bore no affect or connection at all.
Key-stroke unknown.
Cool!
---
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
The Title is Wrong
That title is exactly wrong. Most people know full well that the Dark Net is a den of scum and villainy; full of murderers, drug dealers, thieves, loan sharks, blackmailers, prostitutes and child pornographers. Not to mention the copyright pirates.
They learned that from propaganda written by the government and published by guileless lap-dog media. Why wouldn't the people want to shut a place like that down?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Fear of Ignorance
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Attention!
That is all.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Darknet
Also, I wonder how many more people would want it shut down if they ever checked it out? I mean, the stuff I've seen on the onion sites can be pretty fucking chilling! I'm not asking it be shut down, but if Joe and Jane Ipad ever saw it, I'm sure they'd freak out.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Darknet
Now, the thing I think the poll was trying to get at was "71% want to shut down Tor," which it is "possible" to shut down, but it would be incredibly difficult for the reasons mentioned above.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Tor's not the Dark Net...
Now, colloquially, the Dark Net in conversation just refers to stuff like Tor that can certainly be used for nefarious activities. However, a fair amount of positive stuff like human rights information from the U.S. aimed at citizens of restrictive countries, is also within that colloquial field. So it wouldn't be doing the citizens of the world any favors by banning the Dark Net.
Regardless, the vast majority of people who don't know what the Dark Net means or even what Tor is, also don't know that most encryption services and Tor itself were originally U.S. military programs.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Tor's not the Dark Net...
I think that is inconsistent with the Wikipedia article on the subject.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darknet
Do you have a more authoritative source that supports your view?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Tor's not the Dark Net...
The Darknet is a phrase that's been used by the media and a lot of others because its a scary and easy term to use that can describe any and all illicit things that happen in encrypted marketplaces and sites, but the actual technical use for the term Darknet is just any site that can't be read without access through an encrypted service like Tor, or any other method of encryption.
This is why this debate is so ridiculous, because shutting down the Darknet would literally be impossible without disrupting the entire concept of private email/bank accounts/any password protected services (I don't know why the author of the article doesn't just say this outright). So many things are encrypted online that we use everyday that removing "everything that fits under the term Darknet" would terminate the use of those services.
Now, they could start a poll on who'd like to have Tor taken down, which would be the more accurate way to phrase this article's point, because that would be 1) practically impossible as well for the reasons described above, and because 2) there are so many other encrypted servers out there that do the same thing.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Tor's not the Dark Net...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Tor's not the Dark Net...
Deep Net = pretty much everything I mentioned above
Dark Net = part of the Deep Net, but you need special software to access it.
Thanks for making me recheck my research!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Tor's not the Dark Net...
Sounds right: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_web
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
They won't have any idea what they are loosing until after it's gone.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
dark net
[ link to this | view in chronology ]