Texas Cops Seize Anti-GOP Sign From Homeowner's Lawn

from the whole-lot-of-stupid-everywhere-you-look dept

Wed, Oct 10th 2018 10:42am — Tim Cushing

Stupid unconstitutional stuff is happening in Texas. "Again?" I hear you ask, irritated but not surprised. "Yes," I repeat. "In Texas, and involving local politicians and law enforcement." "Again?" I hear you say (again) and the circle of commentary life continues uninterrupted.

A resident of Hamilton, Texas, posted a political sign in her front yard composed of a white ~~label~~ board remix of political cartoonist Ann Telnaes' remix of the GOP logo.

Here's the original:

Opinion | The Republican National Committee flip-flops and announces support for Roy Moore's campaign https://t.co/5bNaFuDk5c pic.twitter.com/JC0954e5rR

— Ann Telnaes (@AnnTelnaes) December 5, 2017

And here's the sign that was, until recently, in homeowner Marion Stanford's yard:

As one does in this age of social media telegraphy, outraged parties brought this to the attention of a local politician with a sizable following -- Texas Ag Commissioner Sid Miller -- who dumped his own petrol on the partisan bonfire by posting it to Facebook and calling it an example of "Democrat sleaze." He also claimed the picture was supposed to be "Judge Kavanaugh's young daughter" -- a claim made without supporting evidence but with the amplification of 738,000 Facebook followers.

Shortly thereafter, Marion Stanford began receiving threats. Unfortunately, this is the predictable part of the backlash. Stanford also received a visit from local law enforcement, which was a bit less predictable. But they weren't there about the threats. They were there about the sign, as the Dallas Morning News reports.

Tuesday evening, she said, police came to her house and said they had received complaints.

“Police told me to remove the sign or they would take it and would arrest me,” Stanford said. “So I let them take the sign.”

This claim has been denied by the city, which issued this statement via the city manager.

The city manager of Hamilton, which is about 100 miles southwest of Fort Worth, denied that police mentioned arrest or forcibly took the sign.

“It’s political season, and a citizen here placed a yard sign that featured a political animal taking an inappropriate position with a young child,” Pete Kampfer said. “A police member visited the owner’s home, and the owner asked the officer to take the sign.”

This denial is more than a little weird. First off, even if officers did not mention arrest, they said something that caused her to hand over the sign to them. The police had no business being there in the first place, so their presence is completely inexplicable… or is at least something the city manager isn't willing to explain.

Second, the whole sentence starting with "it's political season" makes zero sense. "Political season" or no, the sign was protected expression the government had no business interfering with. The addition of "taking an inappropriate position with a young child" suggests the city -- and possibly the police -- are no smarter than the idiot commenters on Sid Miller's page who claim the picture is pretty much child porn. It isn't and only someone hoping to see someone punished by the government for protected speech would make this claim. That group apparently includes the city manager.

This is lawsuit bait. Even if the police did not threaten arrest, officers did visit a citizen to discuss protected expression -- protected expression that ended up being removed by police officers and taken to the station. Whatever the chain of events, it makes everyone involved at the government level look bad. There was no reason to visit, much less take the sign. Even if the homeowner offered to give it up, officers shouldn't have been there to ask the question, much less take her up on her offer.

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Filed Under: first amendment, free speech, gop, marion stanford, police, political signs, sid miller, texas

136 Comments

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Gary (profile), 10 Oct 2018 @ 9:34am

Makes sense
Because the people who shout "Snowflake" the loudest are the most easily offended.
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Nobody Interesting, 10 Oct 2018 @ 10:48am

What?
No, no, no. Art depicting sexual acts with children is illegal in all 50 states, dude. It's a felony. Doesn't matter if it's political speech or not.
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 10 Oct 2018 @ 10:52am

So there were 6 zeros on the settlement check.... then the city manager spoke... I think we're up to 9 now...
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Valkor, 10 Oct 2018 @ 10:53am

Facts not in evidence
Everyone knows that "Judge Kavanaugh's young daughter" is a girl without arms. Using her as a political tool is really beyond the pale...

I hate grandstanding politicians.
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Yudi Zerva-Sheesh, 10 Oct 2018 @ 10:53am

Anti-police Techdirt: police should NEVER de-fuse a situation.
"protected expression" overlooks the sheer fact that enraging people isn't wise.

Peace officers -- under common law -- are supposed to find some way to stop imminent violence. It's too bad that even if the accusation leveled in your headline is true, though you soon back off it, but the obvious way is to remove the sign.

The First Amendment -- which foreigners don't even have written down anywhere -- still isn't absolute.

I advise you test your notions in the UK where you apparently live, if call that living: just wear the wrong color jersey into a pub where ardent fans of the local football club hang out. And DO NOT then call the police to protect you, but keep insisting in your right. Enjoy.
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Bamboo Harvester (profile), 10 Oct 2018 @ 10:54am

Re: What?
Yup.

And it sounds like the cops handled it well. My local cops would probably have done something similar - "If you leave that up, someone who has had a child molested will likely vandalize your house. Or file a lawsuit. Or force us to arrest you."
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2018 @ 11:03am

Re: What?
I know a forty something where that would be a reasonable cartoon representation of, never mind young adults of college age, so why did you jump to the conclusion it is a child being depicted.
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Will B., 10 Oct 2018 @ 11:10am

Re: What?
Cite statute, please, bearing in mind that this cartoon was A) A cartoon, not an image of a real child, B) in no way explicit, and C) clearly protected political speech.

"Art depicting sexual acts with children" when defined broadly can include classics like Lolita, which to the best of my knowledge isn't banned anywhere in the US. Explicit pornography involving real children is banned. (And of course, having sex with a real child is illegal - supposedly. Unless the person having sex with real children is a Republican politician. But no, this sign is clearly what's wrong with America...)
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stderric (profile), 10 Oct 2018 @ 11:11am

Re: What?
I have to assume the arrest of Ann Telnaes and the editors of the Washington Post will be announced soon.
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3 ways, 10 Oct 2018 @ 11:12am

Either cops came and took it and officials lied about it. She did something with it lied about it being taken or someone who does not like the message impersonated one and took it and they actually have no idea and are telling the truth.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2018 @ 11:13am

Re: Makes sense
don't forget cheering liberal tears while their own supreme court pick cries and throws a tantrum on international television in congress.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2018 @ 11:18am

Not so fast
"It isn't and only someone hoping to see someone punished by the government for protected speech would make this claim."

I agree with you that this picture is not CP, but that does not mean a judge will agree with you.

According the the "definition" of CP "depictions" even if they are cartoons is still no bueno and clearly leaves it "open to interpretation". Considering the landscape around "guilty until proven innocent" today I would not be willing to test your theory legally even though I agree with it.

The reactions during Judge Kavanaugh's confirmation hearing is more than enough proof that things are coming off the hinges.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2018 @ 11:19am

Re:
everyone lies, the trick if finding out which one is telling the least amount of lies or the least damaging lies.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2018 @ 11:20am

Re: Anti-police Techdirt: police should NEVER de-fuse a situation.
objection: without outrage there will be no change

This is essentially MLK Jr. and his issue with the white moderate. "Calm down and wait your turn". The system as it currently stands does not redress abuse or tyranny.
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Gary (profile), 10 Oct 2018 @ 11:24am

Re: Re: What?
And it sounds like the cops handled it well. My local cops would probably have done something similar - "If you leave that up, someone who has had a child molested will likely vandalize your house. Or file a lawsuit. Or force us to arrest you."

You understand that is the Exact Opposite of the job the police are supposed to perform, right?

They should be there to say, "We'll keep an eye on your house because some people are grumbling." Not, "Well it'd be a damn shame if your house gets vandalized."

That sign was not any sort of illegal graphical content - otherwise the police department would have said so clearly, instead they denied any sort of legal force.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2018 @ 11:28am

Re: Re: Makes sense
Yea, the whole crying bit was a turn off, but if Kavanaugh was a Female facing the same accusations all the roles would be reversed though.

The only thing Kavaugh's hearing proved was that once again... partisan politics and party come's before law and order and due process.

But I am marking this down in my book the same as Trump. While I personally am not a fan of them, I sure does fill me with glee to see all the wailing and gnashing of teeth on the left.

I keep telling both parties that the more you allow your own corrupt and evil side to do this shit the more the other side is going to try to one up you on it next time.

I look forward to the next round of bullshit that will be arriving just as George Washington predicted in his farewell address.

Democrats and Republicans so deserve each other... the parties should get married just so they can go through a nasty divorce, wash, rinse, and repeat!
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2018 @ 11:32am

Re: Re: Re: Makes sense
I thought Kavanaugh was being hysterical.

He lied to congress and they are not going to do anything about it, color me not surprised.
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Get off my cyber-lawn! (profile), 10 Oct 2018 @ 11:33am

Everything is bigger in Texas...
including the F*&@ UPS.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2018 @ 11:33am

Re: Re: Re: What?
"You understand that is the Exact Opposite of the job the police are supposed to perform, right?"

Not entirely correct according to history.

Keeping the peace is also a function of the police, which means you can totally be arrested for doing something totally legal but happens to still breach the peace. Or have you not been watching any news for the past several years?

You can be arrested for pretty much anything, including for your own protection, yes I agree that is a bullshit reason, but unfortunately that is also seen as a valid excuse for some police departments and judges.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2018 @ 11:34am

Re: What?
I am wondering why some folk are so offended by the poster
... does it ring a bit too close to home?
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Bamboo Harvester (profile), 10 Oct 2018 @ 11:36am

Re: Re: Re: What?
It isn't? "Clearly"?

She GAVE them the sign. They didn't seize it.

My suspicion is that the cops warned her of the trouble it'd cause *to her and her family* if she left it up.

Says right in the article that she told them to take it. Which kinda kills the headline of them "seizing" it.

Maybe YOU don't think it falls under child porn (Graphic depiction of a sexual act on a child). Maybe a court would agree. After costing the woman everything she owns in legal fees fighting it.
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Padpaw (profile), 10 Oct 2018 @ 11:36am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Makes sense
what did he lie about and when?

I keep seeing people making this accusation, but they are never able to back it up when asked how he lied.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2018 @ 11:37am

Re: Anti-police Techdirt: police should NEVER de-fuse a situation.
You seem to be twisting about just to maintain your pov in a world that disagrees.
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Padpaw (profile), 10 Oct 2018 @ 11:39am

Re: What?
That's what I thought.

Having a sign implying the republican party supports molesting children seems like it would be breaking at least a few laws.

Doesn't seem like a free speech issue when you are accusing someone of being a child predator.
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Gary (profile), 10 Oct 2018 @ 11:39am

Porn
If the police thought that a cartoon of an armless woman could be called "Child Porn" they wouldn't be stating that the police did not threaten to charge the homeowner. They would be proudly stating that they were told to take it down or face child porn charges. (Or seriously, if cops think CP charges are real, they would just arrest them without an option to remove sign.)
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John Roddy (profile), 10 Oct 2018 @ 11:40am

I have so many problems with this ridiculous post that I would like to carefully address all of them.

"protected expression" overlooks the sheer fact that enraging people isn't wise.

And? Pissing people off isn't a good idea, true. That doesn't mean you're not allowed to ever say anything ever.

Peace officers -- under common law -- are supposed to find some way to stop imminent violence.

Back up a moment. Let's take a look at the "imminent violence" claim that didn't exist until you came along. Were there armed thugs on the property ready to shed blood if the cops didn't immediately step in and take action? No? Because established law--in fact, it literally IS common law--makes it pretty clear that anything short of a situation like that is not grounds for police intervention. Or any level of government intervention. (foreshadowing)

It's too bad that even if the accusation leveled in your headline is true, though you soon back off it, but the obvious way is to remove the sign.

The obvious way to...what? To prevent people being offended? To stop hypothetical violence that nobody has any reason to believe is imminent? Well, I've got news for you.

The First Amendment -- which foreigners don't even have written down anywhere -- still isn't absolute.

That middle part seems to be a total non-sequitur, but I'll agree with you on the rest of it. Yes, the First Amendment is still open to interpretation. We learn more about its reach with every major court decision. For example, this decision from last year, which affirms that Texas governor Greg Abbott did indeed violate the first amendment by removing a state-approved "nativity scene" parody. Note how it goes to great lengths to cite Matal v Tam, a supreme court decision that's barely a year old now. In fact, if it had been on the books just a little bit earlier, there would be no ambiguity about Abbott's personal liability in this situation (the court found he is liable regardless, but he's still appealing that decision because of course he is).

Anyway, that is a practical example of exactly what happens when the government steps in to try controlling "offensive" speech. Quite a bit different from the picture you seem to be painting.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2018 @ 11:40am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Makes sense
I don't know if I would call that hysterical, but like art that is up for interpretation. He certainly did not do himself any favors by acting that way, and like you, I am not surprised either.

Congress gets lied too all the time, and they do nothing about it most of the time and usually because it serves some end.
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Padpaw (profile), 10 Oct 2018 @ 11:44am

Re: Re: Makes sense
I thought it was a much more convincing display than the fake crying Ford did.
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Valkor, 10 Oct 2018 @ 11:46am

Re: Anti-police Techdirt: police should NEVER de-fuse a situation.
I might limit my expression because I am wise enough to not want soccer hooligans to pound me into jelly.

I do not accept the assertion that I should limit myself because a police officer might do the same for something similarly legal.

Back to this story, if cops had shown up, said that there were complaints and they were concerned for her safety, and would she mind doing something different with the sign, there wouldn't even BE a story. The fact that the police left with the sign in their possession doesn't support that scenario.
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Padpaw (profile), 10 Oct 2018 @ 11:48am

Re: Re:
I find when it comes to people happen that hate trump for whatever reason make the claim they are a victim. The "victim" teds to be found out as lying to gain sympathy or to smear their accusers.

I am not talking about Ford and kavanaugh. There are plenty of examples I saw in the media after Trump got elected where people claimed they were victims of racism. Where it turned out they made the whole thing up to try and make republicans looks bad. Every single one of them got charged with filing false police reports, that's why it made the news.
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Padpaw (profile), 10 Oct 2018 @ 11:49am

Re: Not so fast
people were throwing temper tantrums non stop ever since Hillary lost. This is nothing new on the political scene.

I think for some groups they have been holding a 2 year long temper tantrum at this point over Trump being president.
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Lizz V, 10 Oct 2018 @ 11:54am

Re:
The city manager admitted the cops took the sign, so that's not up for argument, what is is dispute is if the sign owner was threatened with arrest or otherwise pressured to give it to them. It's a blatent 1A violation either way.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2018 @ 11:55am

Re: Re: Re: Re: What?
"Says right in the article"
Yes, the city manager (who wasn't there) said that. The owner of the sign says otherwise. What's your point?

Also in that article that you clearly read, it says that an actual law professor and other unnamed legal experts says that it's protected speech. I'll take their opinion over yours.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2018 @ 11:57am

Re: Re: Not so fast
what I like is that the same group that wants to crucify Kavanaugh would support Hillary who supported her husband and Bill has far more evidence of predatory male behavior than Kavanaugh.

It just goes to my party before everything else accusation.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2018 @ 12:00pm

"false police reports"
Channeling Alex Jones: OR... it is actually a false flag operation by Republican intriguers to discredit Democrats/neutrals with legitimate issues regarding racism/class-ism.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2018 @ 12:02pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Makes sense
https://www.gq.com/story/all-of-brett-kavanaughs-lies

This really isn't difficult.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2018 @ 12:02pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What?
You apparently did not comprehend what he posted, lets repeat it.

"Maybe YOU don't think it falls under child porn (Graphic depiction of a sexual act on a child). Maybe a court would agree. After costing the woman everything she owns in legal fees fighting it."

He offered no opinion of his own.

"Also in that article that you clearly read, it says that an actual law professor and other unnamed legal experts says that it's protected speech. I'll take their opinion over yours."

I know right? There is no such thing as two professionals with the same credentials that "disagree" on anything. I mean... why do we even have courts anyways? This shit should be easy.

Do us a favor, go an post the same sign in you front yard and let us know how it all works out. I assure you we would all be very interested in the results.

After costing YOU the legal fees fighting it!
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2018 @ 12:07pm

Re: "false police reports"
Well, not that I have any love for Republicans, but it's not hard to discredit Democrats.

Most charges of racism are well beyond over cooked. And sure classism exists... the problem is you are practicing it right now.
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bob, 10 Oct 2018 @ 12:07pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: What?
Can you provide any examples?
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2018 @ 12:10pm

Re: Re: Re: Makes sense
She didn’t. You might want to get your eyeglass prescription and hearing aid batteries checked.
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bob, 10 Oct 2018 @ 12:11pm

Re: Re: What?
The owner of the sign was stating an opinion not a fact nor is she accusing in the legal system anyone of anything.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2018 @ 12:12pm

Re: Re: What?
But is doesn’t. And even if it did it’s still protected free speech. How bout you take remedial civics class as you seem to be unaware of what constitutes free speech.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2018 @ 12:14pm

Re:member last week when you promised to leave
Why do you hate the constitution?
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stderric (profile), 10 Oct 2018 @ 12:15pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Makes sense
I thought Kavanaugh was being hysterical.

As John Oliver observed, "I hate to say it, but I’m starting to think that men might be too emotional for the supreme court."
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2018 @ 12:15pm

Re: Re: Not so fast
Yes while the president and his supporters do act like children on a daily basis. What does that have to do with the topic at hand?
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Christenson, 10 Oct 2018 @ 12:17pm

Re: Not so fast -- blurred lines
Especially not in Hamilton, Texas, where the first amendment seems not to have reached, I would not want to test whether that sign is CP.

But it is an excellent illustration of both a slippery slope and how dirty-minded we all are.

An elephant is juxtaposed next to a nonspecific painting female child saying "help!". It is clearly the satiric bite that bothers us, neither piece of the image is in any way questionable. Pretty obviously, no harm to children is involved -- unless it is the very indirect harm of conveying that this kind of thing is actually acceptable with real people.

Pretty obviously, one can make the image more and more realistic in any of a number of ways without actually harming any real children.
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Will B., 10 Oct 2018 @ 12:24pm

Re: Re: Re:

There are plenty of examples I saw in the media after Trump got elected where people claimed they were victims of racism. Where it turned out they made the whole thing up to try and make republicans looks bad.

Cite them. Shouod be easy if they're as pervasive as you claim. (Also, isn't Trump the one saying the media are enemies of America? If so, why would you see these stories in "the media"?)
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2018 @ 12:25pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Makes sense
okay many of those are more opinions... and the are not lies even if they are wrong. Lying requires the person to knowingly offer a false statement. While I myself do not think that Kavanaugh is being honest, the test has to be is Kavanaugh knowingly lying or does he have the same psychosis that pretty much most people have about history... and that would be revisionist. People can and definitely do lie to themselves and some do it so well they coach themselves into it so much that all they actually do remember is the lie, which is sadly now the truth for them.

But I do agree that I would suspect that his descriptions of "Boofing" and "Devils Triangle" for example to be lies, not sure how those would change meaning because those kinds of definitions are set by majority opinion of peoples understandings of them.

I did not read the whole list, but a lot of those look more like opinions about lies, they should have kept it more concise to the really obvious ones that are most likely to be lies.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2018 @ 12:27pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Makes sense
I loved that statement!

I don't agree with most of John Oliver's politics but he is hilarious and usually makes good points. Though I bet if he was a female the story would be different.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2018 @ 12:28pm

Re: Re: Makes sense
Just because rapelicans are the biggest snowflakes, and hypocrites..
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Christenson, 10 Oct 2018 @ 12:28pm

Kavanaugh's Convincing Display...
I was convinced by Kavanaugh's display:
a) He was an underage drunk in high school. That's not necessarily a disqualifier; most of my high school friends drank undereage, and so did I.
b) He was lying about it in the face of the evidence of his yearbook. Renate alumnus? Beach week Ralph club???

I've talked to some others that think he was showing all the signs of being hung over, too...so I speculate that he still has an active drinking problem which will lead to an interruption of his time on the bench fairly soon.
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Will B., 10 Oct 2018 @ 12:28pm

Re: Re: Not so fast
Oh hey, a reverse ButHillary.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2018 @ 12:37pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What?
Do you need examples of Gravity too?

TD has several articles on things like this, there is even an article where a woman was raped and then put into jail for her own protection.

https://www.click2houston.com/news/investigates/jailed-rape-victim-who-inspired-jennys-la w-sues-local-hospital

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20180227/20031839326/cop-hits-womans-car-94-m ph-killing-her-infant-police-arrest-woman-negligent-homicide.shtml

Seriously you can be arrested for "anything", its not a joke, opinion, or mystery. It is just a fact of tyranny and one that TD writes articles about too.

If you need proof for this stuff you are either so young you need to go back to class or something and finish your homework!
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2018 @ 12:39pm

and there is nothing wrong with what's happening in the USA? who are you trying to kid? it's creating the same situations that happened in a country that was fought against 70 years ago! police state is definitely an understatement!!
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2018 @ 12:42pm

Re: Re: Not so fast -- blurred lines
I agree that this is obviously a protected political speech, but we both know there is a judge that thinks otherwise and the "sensibilities" of many different people are easily offended to the degree that the 1st Amendment is now mostly trash and only available to those with the time, energy, and money to fight for it or part of a group ensuring their right to it but not others.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2018 @ 12:45pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Makes sense
Breaking news at 11!

Confronted with a link and a comprehensive list, will Padpaw scream "fake news" and just ignore, or will he have a sense of honor and admit he was wrong?
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2018 @ 12:52pm

Re: Re: Makes sense
Liberals are right to be angered over the GOP STEALING a SCOTUS seat from Obama.

The American people did not choose to make Trump choose SCOTUS nominees, we voted for Hillary Clinton.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2018 @ 12:57pm

Re: Everything is bigger in Texas...
Well, we did sent Bush to the Presidency and created a bunch of spying and tyrannical laws that Obama took a lot of advantage of himself and supported.

It's almost like Texas fucks it all up and the rest of you follow suit!
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2018 @ 1:05pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Makes sense
But I have a list,
a list, I tell you.
Please believe my list.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2018 @ 1:05pm

Re: Re: Re: Makes sense
The GOP did not steal anything, they just won the politics.

And we are NOT a democracy so Hillary needed to win the Electoral College instead of the popular vote.

And yes, all of this IS the will of the American people. The government we have is the government we "collectively" ask for. You want to change that? go for it, it is a free country but you will fare much better if you first learn how it works vs running around with ignorant statements like that.

Obama wasted his load on Obamacare and it cost him. Then he managed to piss off enough people (along with Democrats abuse of Bernie) to make America swing in Trumps direction. And SCOTUS nominees was one of the issues during the election so ahem... yea... we did choose to make Trump the person nominating judges to SCOTUS.

Democrats could have likely beat Trump if they had any fucking sense but they don't, instead they ran a total loser cunt... Hillary!
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Baron von Robber, 10 Oct 2018 @ 1:07pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Makes sense
How do you play Devil's Triangle. Asking for a friend.
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Baron von Robber, 10 Oct 2018 @ 1:10pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Makes sense
Looks like it worked better than Drumpf and Putin thought.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2018 @ 1:10pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Makes sense
lol, yea that list was hardly comprehensive... mostly fluff, but it does make some good points in a few places.

I for one suspect Kavanaugh intentionally lied, the problem is proving it though. That said, I get more of a kick out of seeing him make it to SCOTUS as people kick and scream.

They should have been way out in front with the Sexual Assault charges but they tried to use them in bad faith and it blew up in their face. If Kavanaugh is guilty and can be proven then the bullshit fucking antics of the Democrats HELPED get this guy a seat on the court rather than prevent it!

When you come to me in the hour of your peril I suspect you are up to foul play!
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2018 @ 1:16pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Makes sense
When America is full of a bunch of indoctrinate morons like you... you fucking bet it worked well.

Idiot lefties get to blame every position a righty takes as Russian propaganda never realizing that such claims equally mislead you as well.

Everyone share ideas and concepts that the best and worst of humanity has had.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2018 @ 1:19pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Makes sense
Not this crap AGAIN. The USA very much a democracy, not matter how many times you idiots whine that we are not.
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Will B., 10 Oct 2018 @ 1:32pm

uhhh....
Police can arrest you for a wide variety of bum charges. That does not mean they are correctly doing their job. Abuse of power is not the same as correct execrise of power.
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Will B., 10 Oct 2018 @ 1:33pm

Sigh.
*exercise
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Stephen T. Stone (profile), 10 Oct 2018 @ 1:45pm

if Kavanaugh was a Female

Hi there, Mr. Incel! You may want to know that “female” is generally an adjective, not a noun, and using “female” as a stand-in for “woman” or “girl”—especially if you do not use “male” as a stand-in for “man” or “boy”—makes you sound creepy as fuck. This has been your helpful lesson of the day! 👋
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2018 @ 1:50pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Makes sense
Ok .. let us compare to past situations where the president lied. When Bill Clinton said he did not have sex with that woman, was he lying? Can you prove it? Is this the same level of scrutiny in each case? Are the same criteria being used?

Inquiring minds want to know.
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Stephen T. Stone (profile), 10 Oct 2018 @ 1:52pm

The GOP did not steal anything

Barack Obama did not refuse to give Merrick Garland a single hearing; the Senate did. Neil Gorsuch did not jump in line ahead of Merrick Garland; the Senate made sure the seat was open for him after the 2016 election (and after the scary Black man was no longer POTUS). Donald Trump did not, as far as I know, order the GOP to withhold the Garland nomination for nearly a year just so Trump could fill Antonin Scalia’s vacant seat on the bench; the GOP did that to make sure they could eventually seat a pro-life conservative on SCOTUS.

The GOP stole a SCOTUS nomination from Barack Obama because he dared to nominate someone in the last year of his presidency—and, by Mitch McConnell’s own admission, because the Republicans held control of the Senate. If Mitch McConnell is willing to go on live TV and say the GOP held up the Garland nomination for the sake of partisan politics, what makes it so wrong to call what they did “stealing the Supreme Court”?
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2018 @ 1:53pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Makes sense
As if it were simply a chess game being played between two accomplished players with no outside influence and or interruption.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2018 @ 1:56pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Makes sense
I say he was hysterical with tongue in check for obvious reasons.

I have seen congress critterz get their panties in a twist just at the implication that someone they do not like lied to them ... and then - they just ignore plain nd outrageous violations when it is their dude messin up.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2018 @ 1:58pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Makes sense
It would be just as funny if it had been told by a female.
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Baron von Robber, 10 Oct 2018 @ 1:58pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Makes sense
So triggered. Don't melt snowflake. That makes global warming real.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2018 @ 2:01pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Makes sense
Hey Comrade,
How's the vodka this fall .. better than last year?
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2018 @ 2:04pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Makes sense
Did not steal, ok definitions are good.

They are huge hypocrites.
No one likes a hypocrite.

... or a liar
... or a pussy grabber
... or a rapist
... or a sexual predator
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2018 @ 2:06pm

Re: Re: What?
What law?
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Stephen T. Stone (profile), 10 Oct 2018 @ 2:07pm
"protected expression" overlooks the sheer fact that enraging people isn't wise.

And yet, you keep coming back here every day.

Peace officers -- under common law -- are supposed to find some way to stop imminent violence.

Two things.
1. Please define “common law” as you understand it, so everyone is on the same page.
2. Police officers do have the right to stop imminent violence, but they must still act within the restraints of the law—which means silencing perfectly legal speech because someone might incidentally get angry enough to throw a punch at the speaker is a First Amendment lawsuit waiting to be filed.
even if the accusation leveled in your headline is true, though you soon back off it, but the obvious way is to remove the sign

Again: The sign is protected speech. What makes the person who put it up responsible for the reactions of others? The reactionaries are the ones who cannot control their tempers long enough to just keep walking by; if the reactionary throws a punch at the speaker, the speaker should not be punished for getting hit in the face. Doing so is little-to-no better than blaming a female rape victim for her own rape by saying she dressed like she wanted sex.

The First Amendment -- which foreigners don't even have written down anywhere -- still isn't absolute.

Another two things.
1. What the flying orange-and-blue blur do “foreigners” have to do with any of this?
2. Yes, thank you for telling us something we already know.
just wear the wrong color jersey into a pub where ardent fans of the local football club hang out. And DO NOT then call the police to protect you, but keep insisting in your right.

It is absolutely a person’s right to wear, say, a Jacksonville Jaguars jersey in the middle of a bar full of Carolina Panthers fans. If the Jaguars fan gets beaten up over their shirt, they should not be blamed for getting beaten up; it would be no better than blaming a woman for being raped because she was wearing a skimpy dress.
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bob, 10 Oct 2018 @ 2:10pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Makes sense
But the hearing is not a court so beyond reasonable doubt is not required. Simply put he has to show he has the temperament to do the job, is qualified for the job, and is independent enough to be there. I think he failed those requirements regardless of his past actions involving Ford and the rest, but that doesn't make him guilty either.

I think it is more telling that the GOP chose that hill to die on as opposed to just picking someone else off the list provided to Trump. Lucky for them they didn't need to die to get the nomination. I mean really, why so desperate for him specifically? Was there no other good candidate that didn't have the potential baggage Brett might have had.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2018 @ 2:10pm

Re: Re: Re:
People are assholes, and you will find a few in every group ... and this is news to you?

In addition, why do some people paint an entire stereotypical group based solely upon the actions of a few within said group?

Because it is expedient and the end justifies the means - they are assholes.
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Stephen T. Stone (profile), 10 Oct 2018 @ 2:12pm

I agree that this is obviously a protected political speech, but we both know there is a judge that thinks otherwise

We have appellate courts and the Supreme Court, as well as decades of case law on the matter, to help make sure one judge’s personal opinion on a political sign does not override a person’s First Amendment rights. Any judge who rules that sign to be “unprotected speech” is practically asking to have their verdict appealed and overturned in short order.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2018 @ 2:13pm

Re: Re: Not so fast
I see the list of people Trump wants to lock up is increasing.
You think Kav will vote to lock up political opponents?
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Stephen T. Stone (profile), 10 Oct 2018 @ 2:14pm

A female what?
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2018 @ 2:15pm

Re: Re: Re: Not so fast
Was there an investigation into said behaviors? Why did said behavior not become a national issue? All they had was he lied about a blowjob.

Wow - so let us not investigate Kav because Bill ... something something.
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bob, 10 Oct 2018 @ 2:15pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Makes sense
3 cups in a triangle.

Then you take a quarter...

And put it into the payphone to call up your buddy to come to your house because there is a drunk girl there. You each take a drink from one of the cups and then ...

shake hands, say good night, and return home because you are a good religious boy that would never do anything bad, oh and you are a virgin.
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JMT (profile), 10 Oct 2018 @ 2:20pm

Re: Re: What?
"Having a sign implying the republican party supports molesting children seems like it would be breaking at least a few laws."

But you don't name any, so we can assume you don't actually know.

"Doesn't seem like a free speech issue when you are accusing someone of being a child predator."

Who is this "someone" you speak of?
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bob, 10 Oct 2018 @ 2:28pm

think of the children.
Really if you look at it you will see the elephant is just holding onto the dress. Just like they hold tails and trunks of other elephants. After all the girl doesn't have arms.

The little girl is trying to get help because the elephant is lost. Poor poor elephant, he is just sad, scared, and lonely. But only an armless girl has the compassion to help the little elephant.

May we all put similar signs in our yards to remind us of our duty to help lost elephants. I know I want to.
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JMT (profile), 10 Oct 2018 @ 2:28pm

Re: Anti-police Techdirt: police should NEVER de-fuse a situation.
"Peace officers -- under common law -- are supposed to find some way to stop imminent violence."

Please explain to the class why peace officers, presumably under your "common law", failed to immediately confiscate all the signs and torches being carried by those fine people protesting in Charlottesville. The outcome there was very predictable.
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Will B., 10 Oct 2018 @ 2:39pm

Re:
Then again, with Kav on the SC...
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2018 @ 2:42pm

Re: Re: Re: Makes sense
And here we see your true colors, of course.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2018 @ 2:49pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Makes sense
Yup, and now Kav will also face many instances where he should recuse himself but I doubt he will.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2018 @ 2:50pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Makes sense
It is not a drinking game
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2018 @ 2:51pm

Re:
Yeah, ok.
I did not do well in english class and do not care.
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NeghVar (profile), 10 Oct 2018 @ 2:54pm

Distasteful, but covered by the first
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Whoever, 10 Oct 2018 @ 2:56pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: What?

She GAVE them the sign. They didn't seize it.

BULLSHIT

The simplest way to deal with the sign was to merely remove it from the front lawn and optionally put it in the trash. Why would the home owner ask the police to take it?

The city's account is simply not credible. A much more likely explanation is that the police insisted on taking it so that the home owner would not put it back in place as soon as the police had left.

Occam's razor suggests that the police are lying.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2018 @ 3:03pm

Hopefully women will learn kung fu and aggressively defend themselves because it is apparent that the government is complicit in the harassment / abuse and will do nothing to stop it, make it worse they will.
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Mike Masnick (profile), 10 Oct 2018 @ 3:07pm

Re: Re: What?
Having a sign implying the republican party supports molesting children seems like it would be breaking at least a few laws.

It does not. It literally breaks no laws, because the First Amendment makes it clear that any law it would break would be unconstitutional. Please, please, please learn something about the First Amendment before making such dumb claims.

Doesn't seem like a free speech issue when you are accusing someone of being a child predator.

Uh. Seriously, you are flat out wrong. You should learn something about the First Amendment. This does not accuse someone of being a child predator, it is protected speech. You are wrong.
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Stephen T. Stone (profile), 10 Oct 2018 @ 3:11pm

Re: Re:
Dammit, Mike, can you make the Sad But True voting button already?
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Stephen T. Stone (profile), 10 Oct 2018 @ 3:14pm

Re: Re: What?

Having a sign implying the republican party supports molesting children seems like it would be breaking at least a few laws.

By that logic, all the Christians who say “all LGBT people are pedophiles” would be breaking a few laws—but I have yet to see any of those Christians arrested, tried, and convicted of a crime for doing that.
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Bruce C., 10 Oct 2018 @ 3:19pm

For what it's worth...
When I was in grad school, a friend called his dog Boofer because it would sexually assault anything from your leg to a wart-hog as long as it didn't resist. This was in the late 80s, so I don't think the meaning was much different for Kavanaugh than it was for my friend.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2018 @ 3:38pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Makes sense
"I did not read the whole list" then you don't have any idea what you're talking about
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2018 @ 3:53pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Makes sense
"When America is full of a bunch of indoctrinate morons like you... you fucking bet it worked well.

pot, meet kettle...
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stderric (profile), 10 Oct 2018 @ 3:57pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Makes sense
I get to keep 15% of those "Insightful" and "Funny" votes for myself, right?
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2018 @ 4:31pm

RIP free speech in Texas.
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Uriel-238 (profile), 10 Oct 2018 @ 4:39pm

If Kavanaugh was a woman accused...
IF Kavanaugh was a female jurist appointed to the Supreme Court and had been accused by a man of sexually assaulting him when he was fifteen and she was seventeen, the whole dynamic of.the affair would have been different. I'm not sure there'd have been a hearing.

If she was accused by a woman, Kavanaugh might have been denied confirmation out of hand.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2018 @ 4:54pm

What a mess
It's like Techdirt gets off with this much fighting.
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Anomalous Cowherd, 10 Oct 2018 @ 6:17pm

Old usenet newsgroups
alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.abuse.pachyderm

alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.Groping.Old.Pedophiles

GOP 's been dicking around for decades. Sad.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2018 @ 6:39pm

When my daughter asked about the sign I told her the man that lived there was a convicted sexual offender and never be near him or his property under any circumstances. #mentoo
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Toom1275 (profile), 10 Oct 2018 @ 7:25pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: What?
The situation is called the "heckler's veto" - when someone's threatening immiment violence over the speech of another, the police's proper duty is to go after the instigators - NOT the speaker.

In this case, the police should have been shutting down the shitstains sending threats to her, not being their weapons and bullying her into silence.
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Toom1275 (profile), 10 Oct 2018 @ 7:27pm

Re: Facts not in evidence
She's no threat to anybody. 'e's 'armless.
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Toom1275 (profile), 10 Oct 2018 @ 7:34pm

Re: Re: Re:
Well the only one so far who'd falsely accused Roy Moore was that undercover operative from right-wing false news manufacturer Project Veritas.
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Uriel-238 (profile), 10 Oct 2018 @ 7:44pm

Association Football Hooligans...
...will pound you to jelly for calling it soccer.

But this explains why I find most spectator sports a bit culty.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2018 @ 8:26pm

Re:
Doe
A deer
A female deer
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That One Guy (profile), 10 Oct 2018 @ 8:32pm

Re:
So do you have evidence for that, or were you just lying to her in a particularly reprehensible way?
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Oct 2018 @ 9:15pm

Re:
That’s a bit hard on Kav dontcha think? I mean he’s never been convicted of rape... as far as I know.
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Tanner Andrews (profile), 11 Oct 2018 @ 1:32am

Re: Re: What?

Having a sign implying the republican party supports molesting children seems like it would be breaking at least a few laws.

Depends on how you define law. Let us consider a few.

(1) Observation of science, e.g. ``law of matire''. Nope.

(2) Law of math, e.g. commutative law. Nope.

(3) Law of the U.S. Nope, not even plausible due to First Amendment.

(4) Law of Texas. Maybe, not licensed there, and Texas does some weird stuff. However, due to incorporation, Near v. Minnesota, 283 U.S. 697,707 (US 1931), any such weird stuff would be struck down. So, nope.

(5) Law of the imagination of Padpaw. Well, maybe, I suppose, but that is a rather weak and surprising sort of law.

Are you sure that you are not just full of something organic and odoriferous? Until that is answered, I doubt that we would benefit from exploring whether a political party that associates with Roy Moore can actually be defamed.
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Tanner Andrews (profile), 11 Oct 2018 @ 1:34am

Re: Re: Re: What?

law of matire

s/matire/nature/
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dickeyrat, 11 Oct 2018 @ 5:19am

We languish now in the Age Of Trump. The story describes how things are done in a Fascist dictatorship. Get used to it.
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Anonymous Coward, 11 Oct 2018 @ 5:43am

Re:
well my 'team' did it and I stick to my 'team' through thick and thin!
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Wendy Cockcroft, 11 Oct 2018 @ 6:07am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Makes sense
To be fair, on his first day on the job, the Supreme Court refused to hear a case he had adjudicated before. Kavanaugh had no say in whether or not this would happen, the others decided not to hear it.
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me, 11 Oct 2018 @ 6:32am

Sue all parties involved.
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Anonymous Coward, 11 Oct 2018 @ 7:37am

"Even if the homeowner offered to give it up, officers shouldn't have been there to ask the question, much less take her up on her offer."

Nevertheless, it was very nice of the cops to offer a free PSRS (Political Sign Removal Service).
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Anonymous Coward, 11 Oct 2018 @ 7:41am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Makes sense
The comment to which you replied was not un fair, not sure why anyone should feel the need to be fair in situations like this.
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Anonymous Coward, 11 Oct 2018 @ 7:47am

Re: Re: Re: Re: What?
LEOs can and do arrest for things that are not illegal, in a few cases they even made up their own laws in order to make an arrest.

You can beat the rap but you can't beat the ride.

Do not attempt to paint this as "Keeping The Peace" as that is obvious bullshit.
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Anonymous Coward, 11 Oct 2018 @ 7:54am

If this were a Banksy piece rather than a lawn sign it would be praised and scorned by many while becoming a part of history, possibly being sold for lots of cash.
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John85851 (profile), 11 Oct 2018 @ 11:09am

Party loyalty comes first
When I started to read the quote from the city manager as: "It’s political season, and a citizen here placed a yard sign..." I thought he was going to talk about her right to free speech *especially* during an election year.
But, nope, this is America in 2018, where party politics rule and rights are trampled to protect the party.
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Anonymous Coward, 11 Oct 2018 @ 12:25pm

While I think that sign is in pretty bad taste, and I really take issue with saying someone is GUILTY with zero facts showing such. You know Innocent until PROVEN guilty!!!

I'm all for a rapist being thrown into jail. But I could list a number of well-known cases where someone or a group of people were accused of RAPE, and it ended up being a LIE!!!

If she was raped and we have ZERO facts now that shows that to be true, she should have called the police, then be taken to the hospital where evidence could have then been gathered. Not wait 30+ years later. This guy has also been through like 6 past FBI background checks over the years being a Federal Judge. Yet all that has been clean every time.

This woman doesn't know what year it happened. Where it happened. When it happened. All the people she names were there have denied it happening or that he was ever there.

This leftest don't care about her or the rape IF it happened. They only care about Trump not getting his pick. Because they hate Trump and anything he does and have non-stop been trying to stop anything and everything he does.
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Stephen T. Stone (profile), 11 Oct 2018 @ 1:18pm

Innocent until PROVEN guilty

That is a standard for a court of law. I can think Kavanaugh is as guilty as Bill Cosby, but my opinion means nothing in terms of what can be proven in a court of law.

I'm all for a rapist being thrown into jail. But I could list a number of well-known cases where someone or a group of people were accused of RAPE, and it ended up being a LIE

Yes, false accusations hurt the credibility of real rape survivors with real accusations. The point of movements such as #MeToo, then, is to ensure that the real survivors can make their accusations without being brushed aside or ignored. The police should investigate all such accusations for as much evidence that either proves or disproves the story. “Trust but verify” is what is being called for, not “believe all women no matter what” (nor “never believe any other women because one woman lied”).

she should have called the police, then be taken to the hospital where evidence could have then been gathered

She probably “should” have done a lot of things…but I cannot imagine how many of them would have made her a perfect, unassailable, wholly credible victim to you. This is largely what your opinion boils down to: “Because she is not the perfect victim—for whatever reason(s)—she is at least a liar.”

This guy has also been through like 6 past FBI background checks over the years being a Federal Judge. Yet all that has been clean every time.

The FBI cannot generally find what they do not know to look for, and neither Kavanaugh nor his associates apparently let on that Dr. Ford might ever have been a “problem” for him at any point. If only Kavanaugh, Ford, and that friend of Kavanaugh’s knew about the (alleged) assault, how could the FBI have ever learned about it by interviewing Kavanaugh, who had every reason to lie to/mislead the FBI about it?

This woman doesn't know what year it happened. Where it happened. When it happened.

And yet, she directly answered every question asked of her by the Senate to the best of her recollection, whereas Kavanaugh dodged and weaved on similar questions. Whether she can remember every exact detail some 40 years later does not make her story less credible; if anything, the fact that she willingly went before the Senate and answered all their questions says a lot about her credibility. A liar tends to avoid the possibility of being caught lying.

Do I believe she was assaulted? Absolutely; she has nothing to gain by lying about that. Do I believe Kavanaugh was the one who assaulted her? I believe it is possible—and even likely. Do I think Kavanaugh should be convicted of a crime based on everything we know and everything that can be proven? No. Do I think he deserves his spot on the Supreme Court? Hell no—but not for the sole reason of my thinking he likely assaulted Dr. Ford.

All the people she names were there have denied it happening or that he was ever there.

[citation needed]

This leftest don't care about her or the rape IF it happened. They only care about Trump not getting his pick.

We can care about both. If Kavanaugh did assault Dr. Ford, he should not be a judge. If he did not assault her, he still should not be a judge based on the displays of anger and partisanship he put on display in his final hearing prior to his confirmation.

they hate Trump and anything he does and have non-stop been trying to stop anything and everything he does

Hey, the GOP did it with Obama. How long did Mitch McConnell hold up the Merrick Garland nomination, again?
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Stephen T. Stone (profile), 11 Oct 2018 @ 9:28pm

the Supreme Court refused to hear a case he had adjudicated before. Kavanaugh had no say in whether or not this would happen, the others decided not to hear it.

Couldn’t Kavanaugh have recused himself from hearing the case so that it could be heard?
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Wendy Cockcroft, 12 Oct 2018 @ 2:27am

Re:
I dunno, Stephen. However, as TD has pointed out on a number of occasions they can decline to hear cases if they want to. I'm not sure if they even gave a reason.
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Uriel-238 (profile), 14 Oct 2018 @ 3:46pm

Lolicon, Nabakov's classic, etc.
Works that portray child sexuality, sex with children etc. etc. are currently in legal limbo. We have states in which it's legal so long as actual children weren't involved, and we have states in which it's illegal even if it's a bad stick figure drawing. In some states, whether or not your lolicon scene in your otherwise non-pornographic manga can be jailable or not depending on what county you live in, so it's good to know the local laws.

But things have been very weird. In the 70s when NAMBLA was still a thing. We hadn't yet had the Satanic Ritual Abuse scare (which started the great pedophile scare in the 80s). The Tiny Treasures cologne adverts were not even blinked at, and stories about teens getting it on were common airport-pulp reading.

Incidentally, all this stuff only matters regarding portrayals of sex with children. Many states actually endorse sex with children if it's licensed, id est, the partner marries the tyke first. We still have judge-endorsed child marriages in the US as young as 11-years-old, and yes they're expected to perform their bridal duties that young.

In the 1990s, we still had 9-year old brides. Can't speak for the aughts. But prior to that, child marriage was entirely legal (with consent of parents or a judge) and far from being a rare thing. Protection of children from early marriage is one of those ways America hasn't yet been made great.
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Anonymous Coward, 15 Oct 2018 @ 3:11am

Re: Re: What?
"Cite statute"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PROTECT_Act_of_2003

"'Art depicting sexual acts with children' when defined broadly can include classics like Lolita, which to the best of my knowledge isn't banned anywhere in the US."
It's been banned since 2003.

There was even a famous case when Christopher Handley was the first to be charged under the new law. Not only was his life screwed up, even with the acts of "sexualization of minors" charges dismissed, the law still remains uncontested in court (who'd fight it?).

No, the PROTECT Act ensures at any time, the government can pull out another ridiculous charge at any time.

So if you have a copy of "Lolita" lying about... you've been warned.

***
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Uriel-238 (profile), 15 Oct 2018 @ 11:52am

PROTECT act...
I know since then the law's been challenged, but I can't say how successfully. Allan Moore's _Lost Girls,_ for instance, depicts child sexuality, but is not on the current challeged books list.
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Will B., 20 Oct 2018 @ 1:26pm

Re: Re: Re: What?
From your own damned link:

This decision was consistent with the U.S. Supreme Court ruling in Ashcroft v. Free Speech Coalition in which the Supreme Court held that virtual child pornography was protected free speech, provided that the virtual depictions are not obscene. Obscenity, including obscene depictions of children, either virtual or real, is unprotected speech.

United States district court Judge James E. Gritzner ruled that two parts of the PROTECT Act criminalizing "a visual depiction of any kind, including a drawing, cartoon, sculpture, or painting" were unconstitutional.

The actual overview of the act:

Prohibits drawings, sculptures, and pictures of such drawings and sculptures depicting minors in actions or situations that meet the Miller test of being obscene, OR are engaged in sex acts that are deemed to meet the same obscene condition.

Regarding the Miller Test:

Whether "the average person, applying contemporary community standards", would find that the work, taken as a whole, appeals to the prurient interest,

Whether the work depicts or describes, in a patently offensive way, sexual conduct or excretory functions[3] specifically defined by applicable state law,

Whether the work, taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value.[4]

The work is considered obscene only if all three conditions are satisfied.

So, once again: Cite statute, please, *bearing in mind that the portrayal is clearly not obscene, and is clearly protected political speech."
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Will B., 20 Oct 2018 @ 1:29pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: What?
Also, FYI, Lolita is not banned in the US. Please don't lie.
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Will B., 20 Oct 2018 @ 1:39pm

Re: Lolicon, Nabakov's classic, etc.
All this waffling about state and county is pretty meaningless when we know where this event took place. I'm still waiting for a relevant statute that declares non-obscene, clearly-political depictions of stick-figure girls being felt up by elephants illegal.
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