Trump Makes It Official: He's Going To Pull Military Funding, Because Congress Won't Kill The Open Internet
from the really-now dept
There were some questions as to whether or not Trump would actually go through with his threat to veto the National Defense Authorization Act, which has been passed and signed into law every year for the past six decades, but it appears that is the case. The Office of Management and Budget (OMB) has officially notified Congress that Trump is vetoing the NDAA... because they refuse to kill off the open internet.
BREAKING: The OMB has officially notified lawmakers that Trump intends to veto the defense policy bill (#NDAA). Here's the letter to Capitol Hill. pic.twitter.com/WS42b76GAk
— Harry Cramer (@HarrisonCramer) December 8, 2020
The letter it sent to Congress is... just completely disconnected from reality.
The Administration recognizes the importance of the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) to our national security. Unfortunately, this conference report fails to include critical national security measures, includes provisions that fail to respect our veterans and our military's history, and contradicts efforts by this Administration to put America first in our national security and foreign policy actions. Therefore, the Administration strongly opposes passage of the conference report to Accompany H.R. 6395.
There are three key complaints he raises in the letter. (1) The NDAA doesn't completely repeal Section 230 of the Communications Act (which has nothing to do with the military). (2) That it allows for the renaming of bases that were named after the Confederacy and (3) that it limits his ability to scream "national emergency" and use those claims as a reason to steal money from the military to build his stupid wall (as he's been doing).
The 230 bit is particularly stupid:
Despite bipartisan calls for addressing Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, this bill fails to make any meaningful changes to that provision.
Um, yes, because it's got literally nothing to do with the military or the purpose of the NDAA. There is no reason to include anything related to 230 in the NDAA and multiple elected officials have explained that to Trump. But he wants to throw one of his temper tantrums instead.
Section 230 facilitates the spread of disinformation online and is a serious threat to our national security and election integrity. It should be repealed.
So he's finally expressed some rationalization for how 230 impacts national security, but he's wrong. The 1st Amendment is why disinformation can spread online and taking away 230 won't change that. And, I should note that one of the biggest vectors of disinformation that is spread online is... the President himself. Especially over the last month. And, I'd argue that the President has also been the biggest threat to election integrity.
It's Section 230 that has enabled many experts to speak out and show how the nonsense and disinformation that Trump and his cronies are spewing is inaccurate.
As for the claim about renaming bases named after Confederate Army officials, it's difficult to see how that is failing "to respect our veterans and our military's history." Remember, the Confederacy fought against the US military. You'd think it would be more respectful to our veterans not to have them serve from bases named after an army that fought against us. But Trump's gotta Trump.
Republicans in Congress now have a choice. They've been hinting that they'll override a Trump veto, and now is the time for them to stand up and make it clear that's exactly what they'll do.
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Filed Under: confederate bases, congress, donald trump, military, military funding, ndaa, omb, section 230, veto
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PETA has really dropped the ball. Please, for the love of what little sanity remains in this country, spay and neuter your Republicans!
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Re:
"PETA has really dropped the ball. Please, for the love of what little sanity remains in this country, spay and neuter your Republicans!"
Hrm. It doesn't speak well of the US that the last few decades are best summarized with the image of the US as a confused cat hoarder keeping 73 million maladjusted pets crapping all over what used to be a nice house.
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Ah yes, the 'No, you are!' ploy
Gotta love Trump of all people complaining that the spread of disinformation, threats to national security and undermining election integrity, it's like watching a person actively picking someone's pocket as you watch complaining about how no-one respects property ownership and the law these days.
It's also beyond rich for him to try to hide behind the military like the gutless coward that he is when he is threatening to torpedo their budget for the next year, because nothing says 'I respect and support our men and women in uniform' quite like holding their budget hostage because you don't like that free speech includes the ability to say mean things about you.
Still, if nothing else it looks like he's providing republicans in congress a chance to put up or shut up, they said they'd override his veto and it looks like he called their bluff so now it's on them to actually stand up to him for once(assuming those cowards can).
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Re: Ah yes, the 'No, you are!' ploy
"...it's like watching a person actively picking someone's pocket as you watch complaining about how no-one respects property ownership and the law these days."
And it's obviously effective. It's the mechanism of the fast talk. As long as you keep the observer in a perpetual state of confusion and/or shock you can get away with almost anything. The more benevolent demonstration of that is Eddie Murphy in his various early roles, the more conniving demonstration is Barnum. And then, of course, there's people like Trump and Trevor Milton...
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Re: Re: Ah yes, the 'No, you are!' ploy
And it's obviously effective.
The scary bit is that it's even effective in Europe. If you go on Twitter there are many people from Europe repeating claims from Trumpetters about voter fraud, Antifa etc.
If you are a European correspondent for the US just reporting the same as CNN or MSNBC or even Fox, your Twitter feed is overrun by people saying you're a liar, you don't know anything about it and that, like all main stream media, you are in the pay of the dark deep state pedophile cabal that's ruling the world.
I swear that if they were up to their ankles in water in their basement and the msm was claiming their street was flooded, first they would go on 8kun, or where-ever they go nowadays, to check if it isn't some nefarious Soros plot to sell you sump pumps.
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Re: Re: Re: Ah yes, the 'No, you are!' ploy
" If you go on Twitter there are many people from Europe repeating claims from Trumpetters about voter fraud, Antifa etc."
I've seen Brits and Australians parrot US right-wing talking points about the dangers of socialism and socialised medicine, blissfully unaware that the supposed hellhole that would result is where they currently live. Challenge them, and they will simultaneously argue how much they love their country while repeating talking points about what they love about the country is evil.
It's astonishing how unthinkingly some people will just believe whatever they're told, but it does explain how so many people have been convinced to vote against their own interests.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Ah yes, the 'No, you are!' ploy
Politics is a form of religion, and many people have the blind faith that allows them to take what the leaders say as the gospel truth.
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Re: Re: Re: Ah yes, the 'No, you are!' ploy
Well, Russia is (partly) part of Europe. It's hard to really figure out which of the vocal forum posters are actually living in the countries where they are contributing to the discussion. The mastery of language exhibited there is a mixed bag, but to be fair, even in the countries themselves the degree of literacy is not entirely unrelated to the degree of Trump adulation.
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Re: Re: Re: Ah yes, the 'No, you are!' ploy
"The scary bit is that it's even effective in Europe. If you go on Twitter there are many people from Europe repeating claims from Trumpetters about voter fraud, Antifa etc."
A whole lot less, though. By and large europeans usually have a far higher lower level of education than the US which means around most of central, western and northern europe the crackpots are isolated and far apart. You certainly don't get all that many parliamentary members quoting trumpist nonsense.
The real issue over this side of the pond is with the brownshirts and assorted other racist groups who like to bandwagon the US Stormfront and Proud Boys propaganda. And with a few east european countries whose entire government has vested interest in bigotry, racism or xenophobia. Poland and Hungary, for instance.
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Re: Ah yes, the 'No, you are!' ploy
Exactly. Trump's entire playbook consists of two words, "deflection" and "projection". Pretty much everything he accuses other people of are things he's doing himself.
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Re: Re: Ah yes, the 'No, you are!' ploy
You're close.
He's operating by standard GOP principles.
Gaslighting
Obstruction
Projection
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Veto proof
They passed a veto proof measure how is he going to do that?
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Re: Veto proof
He can still veto it. If he does it goes back to congress and they have to pass it again with a 2/3 majority in each chamber. "Veto-proof" just means it passed with a least 2/3 of the members voting yes and they will (presumably) vote yes again.
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Re: Re: Veto proof
If it passed initially with a 2/3 majority, what's the point in sending it back to be voted on again?
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Re: Re: Re: Veto proof
“House approves defense bill with veto-proof majority after Trump urges GOP opposition”, by Clare Foran, Manu Raju and Lauren Fox, CNN, Dec 8, 2020 (updated 6:59 PM ET)
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By all means, hand your opposition that knife
If the House ends up voting to override a presidential veto, that vote could be far narrower, however, because at least some Republicans are likely to change their votes in order to sustain a veto.
Well, I certainly can't see how that could be used by any political opponents of those that try to uphold the veto, either during their current term or when it comes time for their next election...
'Sure my opponent claims to support and have the back of the men and women who put their lives on the line serving the country, but when push came to shove they voted against the military's budget because Trump refused to allow it unless it came with a completely unrelated bill attached.'
If members of Trump's GOP want to make clear that much like their Dear Leader they care about the military only so long as it benefits them and they'll throw the military under the bus the second it's beneficial to do so then have at it I suppose, yet another example of how little they care about anyone but themselves and how they're lying through their teeth if they claim otherwise.
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Re: By all means, hand your opposition that knife
Republican voters haven't been known for their rationality recently, so they will probably get away with it.
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Re: By all means, hand your opposition that knife
"Well, I certainly can't see how that could be used by any political opponents of those that try to uphold the veto, either during their current term or when it comes time for their next election..."
It probably can't. When it was implied that Trump could shoot someone on fifth avenue and not lose a single vote, no sarcasm or hyperbole was intended.
Here's what it would look like;
Democrat candidate: "My adversary wants to defund our veterans, make being a black man illegal, delegitimize Roe v Wade, have everyone with an alternate gender identity or sexual preference made a second-class citizen, and abolish freedom of speech".
The very rare republican voter who bothered listening to a Democrat candidate: "Well, Ah'm for sure none too happy 'bout defundin' ahr veterans but the rest sounds like a winner. Reckon' Ah'll be votin' for the Very Fine Republican candidate agin this year. B'sides, ah hear that Dem ain't really white".
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Re: Re: By all means, hand your opposition that knife
Sadly I suspect you're right, as no matter how low of an opinion I have for Trump's GOP and his cultists they always seem gleefully eager to sink even lower.
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Re: Re: Re: By all means, hand your opposition that knife
A problem that America is going to have to address, or watch as everything it officially claims to stand for is destroyed in reality.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: By all means, hand your opposition that knife
"A problem that America is going to have to address, or watch as everything it officially claims to stand for is destroyed in reality."
Realizing you have a problem is the first step. Sadly by this time the cancer has spread wide and deep. After all Trump's shenanigans and obvious malfeasance some 73 million americans are still just wanting more of the same. Because to them "Fuck Liberals" is what really matters.
An article I read lately about "grievance addiction" in politico went along way towards explaining that. A significant part of the US seems to be getting their kicks out of real or perceived retaliation against real or perceived grievance. Hatred makes them feel good, and every argument intended to rationalize their behavior is just window dressing to cover up their habit.
Trump's GOP and his cultists aren't politically engaged. They're just addicts desperately going after their next high, their rhetoric being about whatever flimsy pretense will justify another shot of hatred.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Veto proof
"House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy... insisted that Republican House members will back the President if he vetoes the legislation."
Wow. Changing your vote from "fund the military" to "stroke Trump's ego at the expense of the military" is quite a gift to their future election opponents.
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Re: Re: Re: Veto proof
I think this has been partially answered, but in addition the Constitution spells out the process. Congress cannot take away the president's right to veto a bill by passing it with a 2/3 majority.
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The best politition.
Tends to be the one that ADMITS he is a crook.
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lets see if they have the guts to actually override his veto
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Trump is going to veto bill, because allowing him on Twitter is a risk to national security.
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CASE Act?
Good. Veto that fucker so they can't use it to sneak the CASE Act into law. And if that requires cutting off our bloated military budget for a short while...what's the problem, exactly?
I mean I get it, Trump is a moron, but even a broken clock is right twice a day, right?
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Re: CASE Act?
Wishful thinking. Even Trump as a broken clock would never be right, not even once a day!
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Re: Re: CASE Act?
Actually, Trump's clock might look right, but it's 12 hours off; the most off it can be. AM in the real world is PM in the contrarian Trumpiverse and vice versa.
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Re: CASE Act?
The NDAA is not the omnibus spending bill that's been discussed in connection with the CASE Act.
“Lawmakers are cramming controversial copyright provisions into a must-pass spending bill”, by Emily Birnbaum, Protocol, Dec 4, 2020
(Emphasis.)
Again, the omnibus spending bill is not the NDAA.
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Re: CASE Act?
CASE Act is in a totally different must pass bill.
This is about the NDAA (the military).
CASE Act is in the Omnibus spending bill, that funds the federal government.
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Re: CASE Act?
I think the main problem is that the people most affected are service members, who are generally not exactly rolling in cash. And it's a pretty bad look to veto a bill that provides them things like pay raises and hazard pay. If this were just a matter of delaying payments to defense contractors, sure maybe not such a big deal.
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The official position of this Administration is allowing the President to 'tweet' has turned him into a national security risk against the American people.
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Trump: I'm going to VETO that bill because I'm a whiny shit!
80%+ of Congress: Bring it, bitch.
Only 67% was needed to override the crybaby's pouting but over 81% voted to pass the bill. Your time in office is over, you empty scrotum masquerading as human. GTFO already.
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He has to....
I think his game plan is to wait until Congress recesses for the Christmas holiday.....
Every Bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it become a Law, be presented to the President of the United States; If he approve he shall sign it, but if not he shall return it, with his Objections to that House in which it shall have originated, who shall enter the Objections at large on their Journal, and proceed to reconsider it. If after such Reconsideration two thirds of that House shall agree to pass the Bill, it shall be sent, together with the Objections, to the other House, by which it shall likewise be reconsidered, and if approved by two thirds of that House, it shall become a Law. But in all such Cases the Votes of both Houses shall be determined by Yeas and Nays, and the Names of the Persons voting for and against the Bill shall be entered on the Journal of each House respectively. If any Bill shall not be returned by the President within ten Days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the Same shall be a Law, in like Manner as if he had signed it, unless the Congress by their Adjournment prevent its Return, in which Case it shall not be a Law.[Source] (https://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_A1Sec7.html)
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So is Moscow Mitch going to shove this bill up his cloaca and hide it next to the coronavirus relief bill? Or is there a chance he'll let this be voted on?
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Re:
The only thing Mitch cares about is making sure companies can't be held liable for their employees catching the The Virus TM.
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You don't have much respect for other people's heritage do you? Are you also anti-Semitic? Do you think that locking up Japanese-Americans in WWII was a good thing? ...sure sounds like it. You should learn some tolerance.
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No. But even if true, how would that be relevant?
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Wow, the trolls are desperate but it's always good to see that not even they can spin this into a positive.
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Re:
Yes, Mike Masnick, a Jew, hates Jews. Great critical thinking there, Glenn.
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Re: Re:
That isn't the real Glenn, I'm thinking. He usually isn't channeling Baghdad Bob.
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Re: Re: Re:
Fair enough.
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Re: Re: Re:
Bob, on the other hand, has a long history of writing others' usernames above his off-topic incivility.
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"You don't have much respect for other people's heritage do you?"
If your 'heritage' is adoration of the racists who fought to own slaves and lost, then no, not much respect at all.
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I thought it was just the case act bs but now I see this "felony streaming proposal" part that basically sounds like sopa/pipa for the 3rd/3th goddamn time. congress never fails to ruin the holidays for me, what vpn should I get? I've been looking into mullvad and protonvpn so far.
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"felony streaming proposal"
Are they still trying to turn a civil case into a criminal one?
Why should the taxpayer foot the legal bill for a private business, look like more grifting.
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Re:
The "felony streaming proposal" is likely unconstitutional.
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You fail to see his big picture
You have to start somewhere and soften people up.
"Election integrity" means that everybody is on the same page regarding the election. And prohibiting people from being on a different page is a good start.
Really, you just don't get what this is all about. We are talking about a president who put Hitler's speeches into his bedtime reading literature (well, he wasn't president then and we haven't gotten updates on that since he divorced Ivana Trump).
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Just stop for a moment to let it all sink in: almost half of the Amerikan voting public is actually dense enough to fully put their loving, unconditional support behind someone who can best be described as, mentally somewhere between Adolf Hitler and Alfred E. Neuman. This is where we've been taken by seventy years of commercial television, Disney and the bulk of "popular culture". May God have mercy on our souls.
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"This is where we've been taken by seventy years of commercial television, Disney and the bulk of "popular culture""
If you think that the problem is Disney, and not 70 years of red scare nonsense, Reaganism and Fox cultism, your anger might be a little misplaced. Mass popular culture definitely contributed to the idea that a failed con artist was somehow a great businessman, but that wouldn't have worked without stuff like evangelism and the prosperity gospel having primed people to believe something other than the evidence in front of their eyes.
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Hey, let us not disparage Alfred in this way as he has enough to worry about.
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It's ironic the purpose of the military is to defend America and the American way of life freedom which includes free speech
At this point the Internet is the main way citizens express themselves and communicate and organise political movements , eg me too, Black lives matter, minority groups organise,
Getting rid of section 230 would be a direct attack on free speech across all parts of the spectrum
There is a reason why there's no equivalent to section 230 on China
Russia or Iran
The last thing dictators want is the freedom for people to speak
out on the Web
The present republican party is one of the sources of misinformation online but its protected by laws on free speech like section 230
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Re:
The US military is not authorized to defend "free speech" as you put it.
The First Amendment (free speech) defines what the US government is not allowed to do.
"At this point the Internet is the main way citizens express themselves and communicate and organise political movements "
Quite the claim, so what.
Getting rid of 230 would be an attack upon the first amendment.
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Re: Re:
The oath of enlistment is as follows:
"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."
So yes, every member of the military is sworn to uphold the Constitution, including the free speech provisions of the first amendment.
https://www.army.mil/values/oath.html
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Re: Re: Re:
See, this is the problem.
Free Speech and The First Amendment are not the same thing when the topic is being discussed in many forums like this one, unless it is specifically stated as one or the other.
I figured the poster to which I replied is one of these people that actively conflate the two.
The 1st is very specific while the phrase free speech can be interpreted in any ways to mean many things.
So no - the US military is not authorized to defend the speech of individuals ranting in city square. Local law enforcement will take care of it.
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Re: Re: Re: Re:
Interesting thought. The military is not authorized to perform law enforcement duties within the US. Yet the oath is to defend the Constitution from all enemies, foreign and domestic. So what does that imply? And would local law enforcement actually do anything about it if your first amendment rights were being violated, or would it be left to the court system?
Going back to the original statement: "It's ironic the purpose of the military is to defend America and the American way of life freedom which includes free speech." I think you have to get deep into the weeds of hair splitting (and mixed metaphors) to argue that there is no irony in attacking free speech in a bill to fund the military, on the basis that the first amendment is not perfectly aligned with the concept of free speech in general.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Agreed.
to add, afaik, the military could be authorized on US soil, but I think that requires some additional paperwork or something.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
US military on US soil:
https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2020/07/01/loophole-in-law-governing-amer ican-military-use-on-us-soil-raises-concerns/
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Re: Re: Re: Re:
"So no - the US military is not authorized to defend the speech of individuals ranting in city square. Local law enforcement will take care of it."
And not even that. What 1A says is pretty specific, as is most of the constitution, but above all, the constitution is not primarily about "defending" so much as it relates to what the government may not do.
If the US government were to, say, outlaw public speech you could argue that the US armed forces would be oathbound to oppose that government.
Mind you, that same oath also binds those armed forces to the code of military justice and the orders of the command chain, and as far as I read it there's no priority given in which stipulations of the oath are to be adhered to if the clauses sworn to are in conflict.
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Re:
"There is a reason why there's no equivalent to section 230 on China Russia or Iran "
That's a bit of a misunderstanding; What guarantees free speech remains the first amendment, in the US. The issue in the US is that there's a very odious bit of legislation called the "communications decency act", or CDA, which makes that first amendment conditional online.
Section 230 is the bit of the CDA which preserves free speech online by protecting the platform against whatever the individual commenters choose to post.
In the rest of the world it's notable that most countries with free speech enshrined in their charters do not have anything even remotely resembling the CDA in the first place and so don't need a section 230 to render it harmless.
What is odious about Iran China and Russia is that free speech is not guaranteed in either their national charters or in their basic telecommunications acts to begin with.
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Re: Re:
Either I misunderstood you or you're mistaken. The only part of the CDA that has not been struck down as unconstitutional is section 230. The problem 230 is solving was raised by court cases, not legislation. It does not place any obligations on anyone to receive any kind of protections. It is possible you're conflating it with the DMCA, which does have obligations which must be met in order to qualify for its safe harbor protection.
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Re: Re: Re:
First, see Reno v ACLU (1997)
Second, see Pub. L. 108-21 (PROTECT Act of 2003), which in its § 603 amended the provisions of the CDA (i.e. portions of § 223 of the Communications Act of 1934) which had been at issue in Reno.
Third, see Nitke v Gonzales (S.D.N.Y. 2005)
Wikipedia summarizes this history as:
If you want to dispute or correct Wikipedia's summary of the history of the CDA, then please do so.
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Re: Re: Re:
Perhaps I should have started out by referring both you and the other commenter to whom you were replying — both of you to Title V of Pub. L. 104-104: §§ 501 et seq of the Telecommunications Act of 1996.
Maybe both of you two could point out the specific provisions of Title V that you're each referring to in your various respective claims.
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Anything that kills the NDAA is a good thing.
Garbage legislation, top to bottom
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Re:
I’m sorry, but are you opposed to renaming military bases?
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Donnie
Poor little Donnie has a diaper rash, so don't be too mad he's having a tantrum... he's only a toddler, so we can't expect him to act like an adult :p
One day like a miracle, he'll be gone :}
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Coup
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