Who Do You Believe? NYPD? Or Video Evidence Concerning Cop Pepper Spraying Women?
from the why-videotaping-police-is-important dept
Before I get into the details of this post, I will say that I don't quite get the purpose of the whole "Occupy Wall Street" protests. I mean, I guess that they're supposed to be some sort of American version of the Arab Spring protests or the riots in London, but, honestly -- like many of these things in the US -- they strike me as people protesting for the sake of protesting. I just don't quite see the point. The folks in the Middle East had real problems with their government. Protesting against a "financial system"? What does that do?That said, since we've been writing so much about law enforcement and videotaping their actions, one story coming out of the ongoing protests is worth looking at in more detail. On Saturday, there were a bunch of arrests, but the story getting a lot of attention was the decision by one officer (according to this blog, his badge says "Bologna") to walk up to a group of protesting women and spray their eyes, point blank, with pepper spray. You can see the slow motion video, which highlights the officer's actions:
The Police Department’s chief spokesman, Paul J. Browne, said the police had used the pepper spray “appropriately.”Of course, accounts in that same article from one of the women who was sprayed (who wasn't arrested) suggests a different story. While admitting there were some "rough" people there, she says that she and the folks around her had done nothing to cause the police to single them out with pepper spray. Furthermore, the folks at USLaw.com have more information including an additional video taken by one of the pepper-sprayed women. While right as the pepper spraying happens the camera is facing away from the action, and there was a lot of screaming and activity a bit earlier, it's hard to see how anything anyone did in that area provoked the sudden spraying:
“Pepper spray was used once,” he added, “after individuals confronted officers and tried to prevent them from deploying a mesh barrier — something that was edited out or otherwise not captured in the video.”
Yes, this was a chaotic situation with lots of people yelling and lots of movement. But the evidence from the two videos (and two of the women sprayed) certainly suggests that the police spokesperson is lying in saying that the use here was "appropriate." I find this interesting not because of anything to do with the protest itself, but because of the way the ability to record and upload videos like this is really able to impact and change the debate. In the past, it would have been the police's word against the protesters, and lots of people would have simply believed the police. But, as chaotic as the situation may be, law enforcement around the world is going to have to learn that they can't hide behind false claims of acting appropriately if they didn't, in fact, act appropriately.
Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.
While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.
–The Techdirt Team
Filed Under: nyc, nypd, pepper spray, police, protests, video evidence
Reader Comments
Subscribe: RSS
View by: Time | Thread
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Wow
But yeah, just more of the same out-of-control police and their unconstitutional restraints on free speech.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Wow
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Wow
You're right! Down with the capitalist pigdogs, up with the proletariat!!!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Wow
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Wow
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Wow
If he's a brainwashed slave, you might want to think twice about agreeing with anything he says, since it's probably something his controllers (masters?) want him to say.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Wow
I'll all against getting rid of capitalism and/or major financial change... but these protesters are about as dumb as the cops that go "umm yea, we had to spray them because... we always tell the truth!"
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Wow
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Wow
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Wow
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
I record everything
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Wall Street is a convenient target because people are outraged about the bailout of the banks, and the fact that it came at the expense of ordinary citizens who are now being told that cuts to social security and medicare will be needed to pay for our country's past spending.
They could have been more effective at messaging at the protest itself, but occupywallst.org lays it out as "One person, one vote, one dollar."
In other words, the protesters are trying to help build political will that can overcome the concentrated power of special interests -- such as those responsible for the one-sided intellectual property laws that are the constant subject of well-deserved criticism on this blog.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
The world is in a deep crisis because of the abuses of the financial system. And Obama failed miserably in putting an end (via reform and legislation) to those abuses. In fact, if you look closely, he appointed the same individuals that were in Bush govt to the key positions (with some shuffling just to keep the appearances).
Regular folks like us TD readers are paying a price for something we aren't guilty of.
Buy a toaster and get Bank of America.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
All one needs to do to realize the US financial system is broken is look at the distribution of wealth. Over the past 20 years the rich have gotten much richer, and the middle and lower classes have paid the price. They're worse off than their parents generations were financially.
Blowing off people's concern of the state of the US financial system is no different than blowing off people's concern of the whole copyright and patent systems.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
These ppl who caused this moved by pure and deep greed should burn in hell.
I'd be all over Wall Street if I were American. I'm still cautious about what's gonna happen in my country but all I can see are dark times ahead.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
> along with the government refusing to regulate
> derivatives has had a tremendous impact on the rest of
> the world financially.
Part of the problem was regulation, like requiring that sellers of mortgage backed securities need to hire the rating agency ... idiotic! The free market works just fine, except for two things. First, the US controls interest rates, which means that credit doesn't respond to market forces. Thank Greenspan for keeping rates low too long and blowing the biggest credit bubble in history. Second, Bush and Obama bailed out banks. WTF. Let them fail. Allowing big corporations to fail teaches them disciple. Bailing them out is called "moral hazard". Yes, there would have been a lot of pain in the short term. But long term, you'd be better off and the public wouldn't be on the hook for all this "Quantitative Easing" bullsh!t.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
I do partially agree with the regulation part too. But you see, we are talking about bad regulation. And how regulation tends to evolve much more slowly than the actual market itself and thus a good regulation now might become a bad regulation tomorrow.
Free market is like an wild animal. If you let it loose it'll act on instincts (mostly). And it seems to me that the most basic and strong instinct that drives the market today is a human trait, after all the market was created and is managed and used by humans. Incidentally now the only law this market sees is unlimited profit at all costs (including worldwide crisis) and this comes from a very human trait: greed.
Let's go back in time to the factories before any labor laws were passed. Kids working. 16h-shifts. Near slavery (and if slavery hadn't been abolished before they'd just use the whip on the 'employees'). What keeps companies today from running like that? Laws, regulation. And in a very minor place you can add public awareness. A company acts under the profit above all law and if they could cut all costs to zero they would.
Now, there's the laws. Some will say that laws take away freedoms. But why does any human being follow a determined set of laws? The answer is because they collectively agree with those laws. You see COLLECTIVE. Where do you see the PEOPLE in the process concerning the financial market? NOWHERE. The US are controlled by COMPANIES, by the LOBBY.
And in the end, companies were bailed while ppl got bankrupt and CEO's and high profile financial personalities gained millions from TAXPAYING MONEY. Free market? A fable. It is regulated. But it's regulated towards the gain of a few. That's the issue.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Now of course i can't find you a working marxis or communistic one, in fact i can hardly find a working one at all. They all seem to have humans in them and those damn humans are greedy, and make mistakes.
Look sure capitalism works on paper, but since we are not starting from nothing, how do you propose we insure Microsoft, Cleveland cliffs, IBM, Big tobacco, etc do not just decide to pillage the "common person" as they see fit. now remember, any regulation of any industry makes it not "capitalism". good by EPA, child labor laws, OSHA, minimum wage, speed limits(those effect shipping times, as do stop lights and signs), basically everything. I for one, do not want to live in that world.
*fair: reasonably small spread between richest and poorest with all making enough to live (when they apply themselves to the business of doing that, no this does not mean a new BMW 3 series every year, but the ability to buy a 5 year old toyota for example) and having the ability to gain/lose money directly from their actions.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: You Idiot
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Do your fucking homework.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
I thought you were using Fiat money - Basically money which is money because we all say it is.
and that problem with printing more money - well that's been happening - just look up fractional reserve banking to understand how.
http://videosift.com/video/Fiat-Money-Explained-in-3-minutes
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
Fix'd: "Part of the problem was deregulation, selective enforcement, and purposeful over-regulation"
I almost totally agree with you, but there are sooooo many rediculous regulations, but these were put in place by corrupt people, to muddy the water in the very least. Make us feel like idiots for regulating companies, kinda like a false flag against the idea of regulation. Plus many of these things that seem foolish may be ingenious tools to the "controllers".
Keep a close eye on these fuckers (Feds, etc.), with everything going to shit, they seem like idiots, but they're NOT, and that is just another piece of the puzzle.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
From Torrentfreak:
"Little over a year after U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement started “Operation In Our Sites,” the authorities have announced their first conviction. Yesterday, the first site owner targeted by the operation pleaded guilty. The 23-year old Matthew Smith, admitted to conspiracy and criminal copyright infringement charges for his role in the video streaming and download site NinjaVideo.
At the end of June last year, nine sites connected to movie streaming were targeted by the U.S. government, including NinjaVideo.net, one of the Internet’s most prominent video streaming sites.
It was the first round in the ongoing “Operation in Our Sites” through which more than 100 domain names have been seized to date.
In NinjaVideo’s case, the authorities not only seized the site’s domain names, but also launched a full-fledged criminal investigation into the people involved.
As a result, five people connected to the movie streaming site were indicted by a federal grand jury two weeks ago. All are suspected of conspiracy and several copyright-related offenses. One of the five, 23-year old Matthew Smith, pleaded guilty to conspiracy and criminal copyright infringement yesterday.
The guilty plea results in an automatic conviction and the court documents further reveal that Smith has waived his right to appeal.
The NinjaVideo founder plead guilty to two of the six counts, including conspiring with the other defendants to willfully infringe the rights of third parties for profit. Smith admitted that the site generated more than $500,000 from advertising and donations during the two-year period the site was active.
Four of the five criminal copyright charges were dismissed by the court; these all referred to specific movie titles (2012, Iron Man 2, Avatar and The A-Team). Smith did, however, plead guilty to the more general copyright infringement charges below, as stated in the original indictment.
“[Smith] Did willfully, and for purposes of private financial gain, infringe the copyrights of copyrighted works, that is, motion pictures, television programs, and software, by the reproduction and distribution over the Internet, during a 180-day period, of ten or more copies of one or more copyrighted works which had a total retail value of more than $2,500.”
The maximum penalty for both counts Smith plead guilty to is five years in prison and a $250,000 fine. He will be sentenced in December, and considering his cooperative stance it seems unlikely that he will receive maximum punishment.
The four other NinjaVideo defendants, including co-founder Hana Beshara, are scheduled for a jury trial February next year."
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
It's a two-tier system of justice. The harshest penalties for insignificant infractions on the part of the rabble, while reserving only the slightest slap-on-the-wrist for the elite in spite of ruining countless lives.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
/sarc
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Hotfile getting reamed out and ordered to turn over everything but their source code? Not a peep. This story? Nada.
Mike doesn't want to admit that the law is now starting to catch up to infringing activities, and that the WWW (wild wild west) of copyright infringement is getting a serious beat down.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
Shame.
Someday, you will be sitting in a rest home, and go ... DOH! That's what they meant! By then it will be too late. The industry will have moved on without you.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Police are scum
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Police are scum
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Police are scum
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Police are scum
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Police are scum
There was an interesting blurb on the first generation of police pepper spray dispensers, urging the user not to use pepper spray unless emergency medical treatment could be supplied within five minutes of exposure, lest permanent injury result. Pepper spray was always intended to shock and disrupt an unruly crowd, not for use as a pain compliance tool. The idea being that nobody will be resisting much, if at all, so police would then move in, secure people, and begin providing medical treatment to those who needed it.
Those warning labels are long gone, police have stronger formulations of pepper available now than they did then, and it's routine to give medical treatment hours after exposure, or not at all. Great bunch of people, eh?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Police are scum
I don't agree that the use of pepper spray was appropriate, but I also understand why the police didn't physically restrain a superior officer.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Police are scum
Attempted murder is a more serious crime than assault & battery, true. But both are crimes.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
nonsense
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: nonsense
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: nonsense
How about the very rich paying their share of the Tax Burden?
Did you know that the top 5 percent of income earners pay more in taxes than the bottom 95 percent of the pay scale?
Sounds awful unless you happen to know that the top 5 percent also controlled 60 percent of this nation's wealth (and most likely significantly more today, maybe as much as 70 percent).
It gets even worse when you realize that the bottom 95 percent is also paying their own way in life, i.e. they are responsible for the day to day expenses out of their own pocket for 95 percent of the population. The top 5 percent, with most of the wealth, pays for themselves, 5 percent of the population.
So what is the common man entitled to? Well, they are entitled to a reasonable opportunity to succeed and better themselves with the resources of this country. Access to college, access to capital, access to opportunities. The benefits of the efforts of ALL the people should not be concentrated in the hands of a privileged few.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: nonsense
Why does the proportion of wealth controlled have anything to do with the "fair" proportion of the tax burden?
As people's weath increase (ie they earn money) they are taxed on that increase - through income tax, capital gains tax and even inheritance tax. Once they have the wealth, it has already been taxed. Why is it fair for the government to then come back and ask to tax those funds again?
Also, you should realise that the bottom 95% are not paying their own way in life, they are being subsidised by the top 5%. Despite the top 5% contributing over 50% of government tax income by your own acknowledgement, they will use far less than 50% of government expenditure. Therefore the lower 95% gets the advantage of a cheaper police force etc than if half the bill wasn't being paid for them.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: nonsense
The concentration of wealth to a small portion of the population is one of the few historical indicators of impending societal collapse.
As people's weath increase (ie they earn money) they are taxed on that increase - through income tax, capital gains tax and even inheritance tax. Once they have the wealth, it has already been taxed. Why is it fair for the government to then come back and ask to tax those funds again?
I think you point out one of the biggest sources of frustration. Most people in the middle class pay a tax burden of somewhere between 35 and 45% of their income (between income taxes, payroll taxes, sales tax etc.) Wealthy people typically pay a tax burden between 18 and 25% of their income. This is primarily due to the low capital gains tax and low corporate tax rate (expenses are filtered through a "holding company" instead of being paid for directly).
There will always be rich and poor (even if we abolish money, some people will get more privileges, opportunities, etc.) but every once in a while the poor rise up against the rich (when the disparity becomes too great.) This could be the first signs of revolution ... or it could turn out to be nothing.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: nonsense
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: nonsense
i LIKE YOUR STATEMENT...and would like to answer..
BECAUSE those top 5% are taking home, 10 times more then the WHOLE bottom 95%, and then..
NOT paying into the system..Social sec, and others parts of the gov REQUIRED of the lower 95%
AND they are paying
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: nonsense
How about equal representation within the law?
Not just judicial advocates, but a political arena that hasn't been dominated by campaign funds supplied by those who can afford to push an agenda. In a time of economic recession when individuals can barely afford to donate $10, the two major parties are hosting fund raising dinners that cost thousands to tens-of-thousands of dollars per person. The media keeps a tally of which campaigner has raised so much money in the same way that sports commentators report on the previous night's big game.
How about the right to work a well paying job?
With the Citizen's United decision, corporations are now free to unlimited campaign spending. Those with money can push their personal views ahead of the rest of us with company funds. They are now allowed to spend millions in corporate finances which could go towards employee paychecks, safety measures, medical insurance, or better product materials for goods and services. And while the top CEOs are getting bonuses in the millions of dollars, their companies are reducing their local workforce by thousands.
Maybe they're entitled to equal representation under the law?
Those with vast amounts of money to spend lobby local and national governments to pass laws which benefit their businesses at the expense of the citizenry. Everything from local water rights to health care has been skewed in legality towards larger corporate benefit. Companies like Coca-Cola and Pepsi Co. have been accused of tapping into reserves and locking up fresh water, keeping it from the those living downstream and raising costs to the people. And has been discussed on this very site, issues in intellectual property from patents to copyright have stifled innovation in several areas of medicine and technology. With regulatory capture and large financial donations, companies are allowed to make their own laws that the rest of us are bound to to follow.
What do we have left with which to fight? Townships can pass local ordnance to counter land grabs by large businesses, or declare "free" zones which can only serve local communities (and bring expensive lawsuits in retaliation), and we can protest in hopes to bring about a change that restores some sort of equilibrium between those with means, and those without.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: nonsense
It is not the government's place to provide jobs, or even ensure everyone has one and that it is well pais. It is the private sector's place to do that - the government is there to provide governance in how that is run.
Granted it is best for the country, and therefore a goal of the government, for unemployment to be low and for as few people as possible to be below the poverty line - but that in no way translates into a right to a well paid job.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: nonsense
It might not be the government's job to provide work for everyone, but when the government and businesses are so entangled, how can you tell the difference? Kickbacks, regulatory capture, campaign endorsements, revolving-door lobbyists. Industry insiders who hold civilian jobs one year, and federal oversight jobs the next.
You are correct that it is in the government's best interest that businesses that operate within its borders do what they can to help support the communities within. It's a long-term solution that must be continually maintained.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: nonsense
In the contract between employer and employee there is a disparity of resources so the employee generally needs protection. As such I agree that part of the government's role is to ensure that wages are fair, hours are reasonable etc - but not necessarily to provide those jobs, only to provide the circumstances that the private sector is able to create the jobs.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: nonsense
Or at least it's supposed to be, it's not working out that way.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Revolution
-Thomas Jefferson
A revolution may just be gearing up.
This video just reminds me that the US exists in Police State currently. Martial Law isn't far away.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
They're not just protesting a "financial system," but the preferential treatment that this financial system is getting at the hands of the Government. I'd say that preferential treatment causes real problems.
Regardless, thanks for covering this. The mainstream media generally doesn't cover the mistreatment of protesters.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: This is the shortest, most succinct explanation
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: :-]
Also, to reiterate for Mike;I suspect the protesters have real problems with their government too.
Were I able to afford the time off of work and the ride to New York *I* would be there with them.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
It frustrates the people with the money and power.
We have protests, walks, marches, gatherings and the political powers that be do everything they can to ignore them. It does not matter if you do it in the heart of DC they somehow manage to miss it.
By taking the protest to those that people feel, quite possibly rightly, who are responsible for much of the misery in this country they are making a point.
We can reach into your domain and cause you difficulty.
The apparent overreaction by the police to a peaceful protest seems to highlight what is wrong in the country. The "people" are not important enough to be listened to or considered when there is a threat to the top monied interests. The protests have been going on for days, and only when the Youtube coverage shows that peaceful people are being abused in the street does it get any mention in the media (most of which is backed by those monied interests.) And some of the coverage is designed to show the protestors as somehow deserving of the treatment they are getting, and showing the police as the victims of these out of control protestors.
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2011/09/occupy-wall-street-protests-turn-violent-video-sh ows-police-macing-women/
The comment page is filled with people pointing out how misleading the headline is and demanding it be fixed. The protesters are not being violent, the police are.
The police in this situation are overreacting and we see the standard response within the police, they close ranks to protect someone who has done something obviously wrong. That they must support each other and present a unified front even when they are out of control.
New York is a good example of what it wrong with this country, they have spent over 3 billion on their counter-terrorism plans and have the ability to take down an aircraft on their own. They are hyperprepared for the outside attack, and seem woefully unprepared to deal with a simple protest by the people. They have allegedly tried to stop the streaming of footage from the protest so they can claim that the footage being shot by people is missing things and is edited to show them in a bad light. The footage of the woman being pepper sprayed point blank is just the tip of the iceberg, the way the officer responsible quickly leaves the scene adds to the feeling he did something he does not want to explain. Many of the "attacks" on the protesters seems to be sourced to the white shirted officers, but I am unsure what that denotes in their system. This seems to be officers who seem to take extra offense that people dare to challenge their authority and then take those frustrations out on the protesters.
Social media helped create this protest, and social media is covering it. How the NYPD thinks they can spin control raw footage is beyond me. As these things continue it will become much more clear exactly how much of a blind eye they are willing to turn to protesters being put down for causing inconvenience.
When there were the lunch counter sit ins, you only had the police version and the version from the people many of the police attacked. Eventually people decided maybe the police were being inaccurate in their descriptions and were not upholding the law as much as their own prejudices. Now we can see in living shakycam color the out of control response some officers are having, and no amount of explaining should make this seem right to anyone.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
And when coverage is given it is distorted. Any1 seen the Israeli youngsters protesting against the real state speculation? I bet most haven't.
Ppl are fed up. Plain and simple.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
As a long time reader and lover of this blog Mike's take on the protest confuses the shit outa me.
Everyday Mike talks about the injustice of police, out of control copyright, regulatory capture, and general government corruption.
Yet when people finally do something about it he gives the same flippant response as the suits sipping champagne as they watch one of the marches from the first day of the protest, 'lol look at those hippies' its not hippies, if you did your research you would see people from all walks of life and political background are gathering by the thousands in new york and its only growing...
i thought we told you to expect us?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Rich kid Mike
One day you'll you understand and when you do, this website will improve.
By the way, this protest is already in its second week.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Rich kid Mike
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Rich kid Mike
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Rich kid Mike
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Rich kid Mike
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Why..
And complaining to the NYPD isn't going to work - they will ALWAYS back up their cops. "Internal Affairs" exists to show that cops did the appropriate thing, NOT to see if cops did anything wrong.
Just avoid cops and you will be far safer.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Why..
They are deputies and higher ups
Highly doubtful if it's Lieutenants doing the actual dirty work, since they are the ones that oversee an entire operation.
Other than that, TAC has a better write up on this. But avoiding the cops? Won't happen.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Why..
And if Internal Affairs does not want to sacrifice a few of the bad actors, there are other powers to appeal to.
While we still are allowed to have some, your civil rights are still given some lip service, you would have an easy time proving violations of your civil rights and extracting justice from the city in another way.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Why..
Counter-attack is certainly an option as well. You protest, they start soaking people down with mace / pepper spray / water cannons, you start launching RC planes with home-made explosives.
Fuck them. "Community control" of the police occurs when there's a shotgun poking in their direction.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Why..
But I wonder what the police response would be, if that particular white shirt were walking down a street, and suddenly someone stuck their arm out and hosed him down real good with mil-spec pepper spray?
Or if someone were to get some of the more interesting pepper powder available in spice shops these days, put it into water balloons, and threw it off building roofs into the police staging areas?
None of it would be any greater use of force than police are already using, arbitrarily, on people whose actions don't warrant such a level of force. But I bet they'd start SCREAMING about "domestic terrorism" the instant someone started using their own tactics and weaponry against them.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
no clue what subject to use
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Civility and the First Amendment...
Civility. In this age when everyone is viewed by a police as a threat and everyone viewing the police as out of control. We have lost a basic level of civility and decency for each other. Why should I view it as my job to forcibly move someone or pepper spray them when they don't move fast enough? It's take less effort to simply say please you need to move here or there so that we can keep order than it does to forcibly move them or drag them.
I know civility is a quaint and archaic behavior but when we act with even the most basic level of it we all are better off for having done so.
Think about, Civility. Simple concept but if everyone involved on both sides of the protests (this one and others) showed a bit more of it would it not be just simply better for everyone?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Civility and the First Amendment...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Civility and the First Amendment...
Just saying to the police we are here lawfully and therefore your attempt to move me from this public place puts you in to a place of committing an act that is illegal. Please reassess your actions as I do not want you to break the law.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Civility and the First Amendment...
Now from the footage from the camera leading up to that event, they yanked someone out of the crowd, the crowd chanted shame, the person they pulled out seems to have possibly gotten free or someone else is then thrown to the ground (it is hard to tell). They move in and go after someone else, more chanting of shame, the question, then the pepper spray.
This was a cop out of control, he removes himself from the scene after having his outburst for feeling put upon. This is not the act of an officer doing his job, this was someone who lost control and then taking off before anyone could catch his name.
There is some civility happening, but there are more people who feel challenged and civility is the first thing to be thrown under the bus. The situations then grow and expand out of anyones control.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Civility and the First Amendment...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Civility and the First Amendment...
About 99% of all the people who assemble to protest do so peacefully. There's a bunch of violent anarchist types who, as a form of recreation, use protests as cover for smashing everything they can find, but the group is well known to both police and protest organizers, and nobody likes them.
Every single case of a protest becoming a "riot" we've had here in Seattle, the riot didn't break out among the protestors. The police rioted, every single time.
There's a point where the frustration inherent in dealing with a mass of people who are uncooperative just gets to enough of the local cops, that they start misbehaving en masse. The resulting riot is usually in the form of the police going nuts (luckily while armed for crowd control, not lethal force) and attacking the crowd. The riot is always blamed on the protestors, but without exception, every protest-related riot in the past 20+ years was initiated by police losing it.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Civility and the First Amendment...
I mean, when the police stop working to maintain law and order and act like some wild thug then there is something wrong...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Civility and the First Amendment...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Mike Masnick wasn't there, and is giving us the "fourth hand" report of what happened. Like any fourth hand report, it absolutely lacks balance, information, or scale.
It is sort of the ultimate on "internet reporting", because there is no attempt to look at what all is going on, only looking at a single act in abstraction and trying to say "good or bad".
Congrats Mike, you have proven yourself to be willing to run any story just for views.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Second I will say that I am baffled by Mike's inability to understand the premise of the protests, whether or not you agree with them.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
These people show up, with cameras in hand. They know there is a segment of the police that will always use physical force to disrupt the protesters. They are also there to expose the police coverups that always occur at these events.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
"The people that have been with the protest since the beginning have been recording the police and their responses with no provocation whatsoever"
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Such a suit, properly constructed, would make the wearer almost completely invulnerable to every single crowd control weapon currently in the police arsenal, with the exception (obviously) of water cannons.
Just having half a dozen people in what looks like snow-white riot armor, armed with flowers in place of batons, labeled PROTESTOR and MEDIC, would tend to psychologically mess with the jack-booted thug types.
Having a guy who just stands there (with cameras rolling, mind you) as a cop beats him with a riot baton, completely impervious to the impacts is a powerful image...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
https://www.commondreams.org/further/2011/09/26-1
They get some background on the officer who pepper sprayed.
http://pastebin.com/nC4f5uca
Anonymous Doxed him.
Notice the civil rights violation case filed against him previously.
Its nice that this is the "appropriate" way to respond to protestors, to pepper spray them and flee hoping to get away with it with no witnesses.
And the trust in the police erodes more... and no one seems to know why.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
http://www.thevillager.com/villager_113/afteryearsoftrouble.html
Manhattan South Task Force, the unit that responds to special situations like demonstrations and received the full appointment in May the following year.
So all of his special training and being in charge of handling demonstrations taught him to pepper spray and run away?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
This could have been you Mike
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
American version of London?
Protesting for the sake of protesting? Sounds exactly like the riots in London (and other English cities). A lot of the people here were rioting for the sake of it - a chance to have some fun and nick a TV without facing the consequences. No higher motives there.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Or Anonymous should hack into these organizations' mainframes and destroy them, after getting all their files and records and uploading them to sites all across the net for all to see.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
The media waves their hand and points out how sad this event was for the poor victim of the hack. (Sony Hack #1-6)
They distract people with how what has happened will cause all of these problems for "regular people". (Pick a hack any hack.)
That these evil hackers are out to get them, after all Anonymous has been compared to terrorists, and they use the same phrasing about how Anonymous members are coming to cause more trouble and disrupt their lives. (Commentary on BART protest.)
Truth, Justice, the American way mean NOTHING if it disrupts American Idol.
People calling for the hackers to be executed because a gaming network was down.
People bitching about having to change all of their passwords:
-blithely ignoring the problem with using the same password everywhere.
-ignoring the "hack" was not skill or talent, and it is very likely they were not the first ones into the system filled with data with no protection.
People bitching about others daring to protest the right to protest and free speech issues, because it might make them late for dinner.
People protesting the jack booted thuggery we use on those who dare to express any dissension to the actions of those who are supposed to protect and serve.
It might be overused to being trite but the quote rings true.
"People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people."
The problem is we've been fed a diet of me first, and have no problem seeing people "less" than us being crushed underfoot because it means we are better than them. They fail to understand when those at the bottom are crushed out, you move one step closer to the bottom.
Sometimes the people we fear the most are those trying to wake us up to the world, we cling to what they want us to think is important and ignore all that is wrong around us.
A protester was pepper sprayed at point blank range, and as the media cycles they will find a way to make it her fault for daring to speak out. She was just causing trouble, there is no issue with the rich and powerful abusing the system on the backs of the common people. The financial industry matters more than any of those silly "rights" we let the common people believe they have.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
File the complaint if you don't agree - I did!
Deputy Inspector Bologna should be investigated and possibly prosecuted for his abuse of power recently. The Police Department’s chief spokesman, Paul J. Browne, said the police had used the pepper spray “appropriately.” This is the "appropriate" way to respond to protestors, to pepper spray them and flee hoping to get away with it with no witnesses? Please see that those who are there to protect and serve the public are not the ones the public needs protection from!
I love TD but this place is only a sounding board - take some action if you want to see change. If you just want to complain that nothing will ever be done...you will probably be right since you chose NOT to take action. Nice self fulfilling prophecy, nice! NOT!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: File the complaint if you don't agree - I did!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Protesting the financial system makes solid sense.
That said, the protests aren't (unfortunately) so clear sighted, they are merely protesting the vast systematic abuses of the current system that has speeded up the coming of the second great depression. It was inevitable eventually, but it's here early due to the incredible bullshit that Goldman Sachs and their ilk have pulled the past couple of years, and all the "financial innovation" (which really should be written "criminal gambling with people's lives by creating byzantine and incredibly complex ways of making money out of thin air by betting on more money") is an atrocity against mankind. The people protesting on Wall Street are heroes - not sufficiently well focused heroes, but at least they have the right idea. They just haven't seen far enough - to the fact that we do, in fact, have to protest the financial system, since that is the single most evil thing in the universe. Up until recently, we had to accept the vast and pitch black dark sides to using money and the profit motive, but with technology and information technology, we can now transcend that particular hell and move on to some actual civilization.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Ohh, you don't have any money? I'm so sad. Maybe it's because you spent it all on a iphone and a gram of cannabis. Don't make enough at your job? Well maybe you should have realized there wasn't much work in the field of marxist-lenninist womens studies that you got your degree in. The reason you don't have any money is because you are unemployable, you're stupid, bitchy, lacking morals and lacking any marketable skill and you have nobody to blame for that except yourself.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
I laughed at your extremely outdated 60's reference.
In America, we settle things by the democratic process and by votes, not by what a bunch of liberal socialist hippy douchebags can rant, rave, bitch and yell in the street throwing a temper tantrum like the shrill shrews they are.
Umm, have you ever read any history at all? Like maybe how the US Government came into existence in the first place.
Ohh, you don't have any money? I'm so sad. Maybe it's because you spent it all on a iphone and a gram of cannabis. Don't make enough at your job? Well maybe you should have realized there wasn't much work in the field of marxist-lenninist womens studies that you got your degree in. The reason you don't have any money is because you are unemployable, you're stupid, bitchy, lacking morals and lacking any marketable skill and you have nobody to blame for that except yourself.
Ohhh, are we stereotyping people we don't even know?
I wanna play too - you are miserable, whiny, lowlife who has never been able to convince anyone, beside yourself, to have sex with you.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
Back in the late 90’s while the Newt Gingrich and Tom Delay were busy selling out the American middle class for a very few silver spoon trust fund babies...
I don’t remember the public sector union workers standing up for their private sector union brothers and sisters. Check out this newpaper headline from 4/16/99 article titled: “Mattel to layoff 3,000 workers. WALL STREET CHEERED the news of restructuring, sending Mattel’s stock up nearly 16 percent…” WHAT? We all know how IT turned out now that our children have all the latest LEAD based toys from China.
Questions one must ask: How did Wall Street become the enemy of the American working class? What did the 90’s Congress legislate to make it easy for Corporations to move jobs out of the country? Would the police of the time blame 3000 Mattel workers for being VERY angry? Because that news article was about as “in your face” as it gets…
The reason why I bring police into the picture is because law enforcement UNIONS and associations have become some of the most powerful, wealthy entities on the American political scene. I can’t help but remember how many times in US history POLICE harassed, abused, beat, gassed and shot those who supported UNION organizing efforts. Public Service UNIONS have the sort of job/pension/healthcare security those of us in the private sector can only dream about.
Note: (civil servants my skinny Italian-American @$$… just who is serving WHO?)
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
A similar thing happened in France
A gendarme started spraying people with tear gas.
It can be seen here : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3pv4L6wXpY at 1:40
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Strange points to make..
They used to use their OWN PROFITS to make/improve something.
I can see why a small company would LIKE/NEED to be on the stock market.
The role of police is to uphold the law. They are for the protection of the people, and to enforce What is needed.
It would be nice if they would just walk thru the group and ASK what they are doing there, and the NEED to be there.
OUR economy does NOT NEED the stock exchange. it was created for the FARMERS to stabilize food prices. We now export 10 times the food we eat, after the Farms were bought out in the 70's and went CORP.( I wont go into this)(middle men getting 2-4 times as much as the farmers)
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
That is up until you see the other footage of the same thing from the other side of the barricade. But it was hastily edited cell phone video that could have been anywhere...where there were actors in NYPD uniforms, using orange plastic to do crowd control, where having done nothing to the former IA investigator (other than yell shame as they swarmed someone they were arresting) decided these uppity protesters needed a point blank shot to the face of pepper spray, and then he promptly fled the scene to avoid everyone knowing who he is, what his background in the department was, and that he needs to be removed from his position.
There is video of what happened, and they claim it is not enough. He pepper sprayed someone being detained by the stupid orange fence who even on a good day represented no real threat to him, because he lost his temper. I guess we are lucky he had enough forethought to not pull his weapon and shoot her in the face.
Despite the beatings and harassment the protesters have been very restrained given the abuse they are getting.
The political talking heads want to tell you that class warfare has never created a job, I expect to see many lawyers suing NYPD, officers, and the city very soon. They will most likely end up hiring many paralegals to help out with as busy as they will be.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Anti-abuse of POWER
Back in the late 90’s while the Newt Gingrich and Tom Delay were busy selling out the American middle class for a very few silver spoon trust fund babies...
I don’t remember the public sector union workers standing up for their private sector union brothers and sisters. Check out this newpaper headline from 4/16/99 article titled: “Mattel to layoff 3,000 workers. WALL STREET CHEERED the news of restructuring, sending Mattel’s stock up nearly 16 percent…” WHAT? We all know how IT turned out now that our children have all the latest LEAD based toys from China.
Questions one must ask: How did Wall Street become the enemy of the American working class? What did the 90’s Congress legislate to make it easy for Corporations to move jobs out of the country? Would the police of the time blame 3000 Mattel workers for being VERY angry? Because that news article was about as “in your face” as it gets…
The reason why I bring police into the picture is because law enforcement UNIONS and associations have become some of the most powerful, wealthy entities on the American political scene. I can’t help but remember how many times in US history POLICE harassed, abused, beat, gassed and shot those who supported UNION organizing efforts. Public Service UNIONS have the sort of job/pension/healthcare security those of us in the private sector can only dream about.
Note: (civil servants my skinny Italian-American @$$… just who is serving WHO?)
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Dont get me wrong
Why not ship the other PART over seas.. LET them get wages from those areas.
THEY WANT our money. they will send goods over. but if MOST of your business is DONE in another nation--GO LIVE THERE.
I know the price in another country, for the OBD II unit, computer unit is only $200, and they sell it for $2000+ in the USA. With those profit margins, those OTHER countries would LOVE IT. They dont CUT taxes on rich.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
netpolitik
I've been making my own protest video using raw footage, about 9.5 hrs worth. I have 4 separate camera feeds (2 additional besides the above two linked) and have watched them repeatedly, in slow- and 4xslow motion.
I have a short analysis here: Video Analysis- Pepper Sprayed at OccupyWallStreet .
As an artist who uses and composes video, I find Paul J. Browne's assertions both ignorant and a pack of reflex lies. Sound triangulation, comparisons of timelines and shadows and overlays convince me that this is indeed raw footage and unedited, unless it was done in a very extensive lab setup, and would require a lot more time to "edit" that was possible, given the rapid upload times for the footage.
The second video, linked above, shows why the penned women were screaming: when the camera swings right, you see a young man whirled around and taken down; what you can see from the first video and other videos is the cop used the bumper of a patrol car to "assist" in the takedown. The women can clearly be heard responding to both this brutality and the takedown of the black male at the beginning of video 1 linked above.
Another point of congruence is the balding blue-shirt, who can be observed on all videos wiping his eyes and mouthing something; on video 2 above,which has better audio, he can be plainly heard saying, "Jesus, he just fucking maced us!" In video 1 he can be observed saying this to his fellow blue-shirt to the left but the audio is much clearer on video 2.
What's also much clearer on video 2 is that the women are also reacting to the seizing of the large black woman in front by her hair and her being dragged over the orange netting. It is this that the women are turning left towards in video 1, after turning to watch the "bumper-car takedown" to the right, and why they are either yelling, "why are you doing this?" and "where do you want us to go?" as well as one of them saying, in amazement to herself (the one closest to "bumper-car") "What the fuck.... what the fuck?!"
I have publicly called out both Patrick J Browne and the New York Times, sending a much-more detailed video analysis. I have advised the 3 identified girls to retain a videographer and a forensic analyst and they are currently seeking the original raw footage from the camerapersons with digital stamps and embedded video information. But an armchair and remote analysis, just working with the footage I have, is certainly enough to call Browne a liar and implicate him ans an idiot who must think digital footage is "film."
And yes, I do think this is a topic for Tech Dirt, as it involves crowdsourcing, peer-to-peer networking ala "sneakernet," manipulation and propaganda and distribution of information outside the Gatekeeper's controls.
Miso Susanowa
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Wth
No one is going to educate you on this because it is better you do it yourself.
And if you do know what is going on, and your just being "smart", then you can get the FUCK off this planet.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Drama Queens
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
protest wall street? get specific
I saw one of the protesters whining about his mom lost 550k in a company pension; that's her own fault; it should have been moved out and diversified. I have a friend that had 500k in Sprint stock years ago and I always told them to move it out and diversify, but noooo. The fact that they lost their ass is their own fault.
Also, I think anyone should be allowed to pepper spray large unruly crowds. If I were a tourist, I wouldn't even have been able to walk through there. They are out of control.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Writer is clueless
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Welcome to reality, stupid white yankees.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
comments and law
Mr Lackman says anyone should be able to pepper spray a protest. He does not care about people or their health.
The film shows it was a planned secret attack and retreat. The trained officer (in police and law) should be himself arrested and charged with assault.
Then the spokesman, cop and city should be sued for damages.
The cop is not a true officer, but a sneaky coward.
nonviolent women is what I saw. I am glad no children were there
Wall Street and Mr Lackman did not approve of these protests, hence their minions did these unlawful actions
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]