A Look At Three Popular Sites That May Be In Trouble Under SOPA
from the collateral-damage dept
The EFF is taking a look at some websites that may face serious legal questions and liability should SOPA become law, specifically looking at Etsy, Flickr and Vimeo. These are three extremely popular and useful sites, which most people certainly believe are and should be perfectly legal. But under SOPA, they could be declared "dedicated to theft of US property," thanks to the broad definitions under the law. Take Etsy, for example:Etsy is an online marketplace for handmade goods, where users can set up a storefront and create listings for things they’ve made. There are over 800,000 active “shops” filled with these handmade goods — far too many for Etsy to monitor manually. Further, because of the eclectic nature of goods listed, it’s difficult to technically filter through the objects listed.The SOPA defenders in our comments will insist that Etsy should have picked a business model that doesn't rely on infringement. Kinda shows the disconnect here, doesn't it? Etsy's business model has nothing to do with infringement... and that's the problem with SOPA.
All that means that it’s not feasible for Etsy to proactively prevent listings that may be perceived to violate US copyright or trademark law. That’s a problem, because under SOPA, anybody who is a “holder of an intellectual property right harmed by the activities” of even a portion of the site, could serve Etsy’s payment processors with a notice that would require them to suspend Etsy’s service within 5 days. That means that a trademark violation in one of the storefronts could lead to payment suspension across the entire site. Unlike DMCA notices, which should be targeted to specific infringements, payment provider suspensions will likely target entire accounts. And even if Etsy protests, the bill's vigilante provisions, which grant them immunity for choking off a site if they have a "reasonable" belief that a portion of a site enable infringement, give the payment processors a strong incentive to cut them off anyway.
Flickr, of course, is one of the most popular photo hosting sites. But under SOPA, it's at risk:
Like Etsy, Flickr takes copyright issues seriously, and complies with DMCA safe harbor requirements by taking down photos when it gets a valid complaint, establishing a repeat infringer policy, etc.. But it doesn’t proactively monitor its user-generated content for copyright infringement. The language of SOPA is vague enough that an individual or corporate rightsholder could claim this lack of monitoring as “taking … deliberate actions to avoid confirming a high probability of the use of the … site to carry out acts that constitute a violation.” Flickr uses an ad network to place advertisements, and accepts payments for premium accounts. Both of those revenue streams could be suspended in a matter of days by a single complaint, and the process of reactivating them could be long and complex.Vimeo is a really interesting one, since that company was sued by EMI for "inducing" infringement by having popularized "lipdub" videos. As EFF points out, that's more than enough to have them completely shut down under SOPA.
Of course, it's unlikely that rightsholders will go after any of these sites now under SOPA. They're all big enough -- and can afford lawyers. But there's a real fear that the next generation of such sites will get shut down... or, worse, won't even start up at all, due to the massive potential liability.
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Filed Under: liability, risks, sopa
Companies: etsy, flickr, vimeo
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Doing the Math for Etsy, MPAA/RIAA Style
It turns out 800000 is a great number to get a sense of the ridiculous burden of liability SOPA will create. Supposing, for sake of because I can, that each store places exactly one infringing piece of work up for sale per day and it takes exactly one hour to locate and verify the infringing status of said work, knowing exactly which store it is likely located in, there now exists exactly 800000 man-hours of new work that Etsy has to perform per day to ensure that no single complaint ruins their entire website. That's (800000 hours) / (24 hours/day) / (365.25 days/year) ~= 91.262 man-years of new labor the website would need per day. Or, put another way, that's (800000 hours) / (8 hours/employee) = 100000 employees needed to come in 7 days a week, every day of the year, for 8 hours. Now, those numbers say two things to me. The first is that maybe SOPA can create a whole new industry of staring blankly at a computer monitor looking for infringement because, as everyone knows, "you just know it when you see it." The other is that the new liability introduced, using those bogus numbers as a far-fetched proxy, will bring the internet to a screeching halt in the name of a few incompetent and lazy middlemen seeking to place the burden of proof on the wrong side of a table yanked out of the rightful setting of the courtroom. Copyright and patent infringement take an adversarial trial to determine, and that is all there is too it.
But, wait, let's look at the numbers again... 800000 new court cases per day from one company might actually get something done right since the people who actually committed the infringement would get punished instead of the platform in similarly idealistic circumstances. That, and it might alert congress to the widespread abuses and problems with the current system, and how cranky judges get after witnessing a groundhogs day moment once too often before age 65. It is the copyright owner's right to the rights provided by copyright and it is also the copyright owner's burden to defend said rights. I could see why the MAFIAA gets so up set since they are in a somewhat similar position with their large catalog of weaslingly pilfered copyrights to scour the universe with, looking for revenue. And let's be honest about it, the MPAA and RIAA care about artists and the supporting staff only as far the copyright can pay over time. And they've been demonstrating less than even that low bar of loyalty lately.
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Re: Doing the Math for Etsy, MPAA/RIAA Style
First off, if they take the time up front to "know their customer", and to structure their service so that they aren't anything but a pure host, they won't have as many issues.
In other words, if they don't do anonymous, and they make sure they know who they are dealing with, then they have showed the sort of good faith in actions that gives them space to work.
Further, they could easily write a small bot to check all pages for certain phrases or words, and investigate those pages and flag them good or bad. So rather than checking 800,000 pages, they would be looking at maybe a few dozen a day. Sort of changes everything
The scale of complying isn't as the EFF tries to paint it. Scaremongering is apparently their best service, they do it very well!
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Re: Re: Doing the Math for Etsy, MPAA/RIAA Style
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Re: Re: Re: Doing the Math for Etsy, MPAA/RIAA Style
The law creates all sorts of responsiblities for you, some you may like, some you may not. Example, on your car, you are required to have working brake lights. Now, if those brake lights fail, you can get a ticket. So you end up self policing, checking your brake lights from time to time to make sure they work.
If you want to be in a retail business, you need to make sure your products are legal, or face liablity issues and potentially criminal charges. You have to "self police", you don't get to just keep selling them until someone catches you, say "oops", and just stop with no harm no foul. real life says you must be responsible for your own actions.
Dry hosting companies will never have an issue. The sites that will have an issue are ones that take anonymous user submissions, and front them as part of their sites. Those people are in serious trouble - as well they should be. I couldn't run that type of business in the real world, why should I be able to run it online?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Doing the Math for Etsy, MPAA/RIAA Style
1) You're trying to police something that you cannot police; and
2) There should be no legislative repair to what is now, and has always been, a business-model issue.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Doing the Math for Etsy, MPAA/RIAA Style
If DMCA was repealed tomorrow and nothing put in it's place, these sites would still all be illegal, and they would be directly open for all the liablity in the world. This is the simple fact nobody is talking about. No need for the question of third party liablity, because they would be first party, publishing content directly on their domain. Nothing more complex. Only DMCA created this horribly weak "service provider" clause that all of these companies have used to create business models that would otherwise be entirely illegal under every other existing law.
SOPA seeks to redress that issue, and also moves to make it easier to cut off the supply of money and services to websites / companies that are actively promoting infringement.
That isn't anything to do with legislatively fixing a business model, it's all about trying to make the online world come more in line with the real world.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Doing the Math for Etsy, MPAA/RIAA Style
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Doing the Math for Etsy, MPAA/RIAA Style
It's hard to compare those times to today. Most of the players didn't even have websites at the time, streaming was mostly a pipe dream, and so on.
So the big lawsuits never happened because nobody realized how big this thing would get one day - and DMCA came along and pretty much made it moot.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Doing the Math for Etsy, MPAA/RIAA Style
If it was not even a consideration why the DMCA was created stupid.
It was a direct response to the chicken little act of the copyBS industry.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Doing the Math for Etsy, MPAA/RIAA Style
FTFY
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Doing the Math for Etsy, MPAA/RIAA Style
Perhaps you should fix yourself next time.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Doing the Math for Etsy, MPAA/RIAA Style
The DMCA was what made them illegal in the first place and opened up an exception.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Doing the Math for Etsy, MPAA/RIAA Style
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Doing the Math for Etsy, MPAA/RIAA Style
Do you have any reference or evidence for that claim at all?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Doing the Math for Etsy, MPAA/RIAA Style
Amen.
Sorry, cyber-freaks, but the rule of law applies in cyberspace with equal force.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Doing the Math for Etsy, MPAA/RIAA Style
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Doing the Math for Etsy, MPAA/RIAA Style
I agree...it should be that way. Therefore we really don't need DMCA or SOPA, because existing Copyright laws already cover infringement and the penalties already exist. And say goodbye to any hopes of getting more money from internet radio, because existing laws already cover licensing of radio. I love how the industry says "rule of law applies in cyberspace with existing force," and then pretends that they need new laws to cover the internet.
You don't need new laws to cover cyberspace. Learn to use the existing laws you already have!
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Doing the Math for Etsy, MPAA/RIAA Style
The product they are selling is legal, it is just being misused. Like spray paint becoming graffiti or nyquil getting people high or stabbing someone with a knife. The store that sells those products isn't liable for their misuse, the end user is. Why should it be different because a computer is involved?
"I couldn't run that type of business in the real world, why should I be able to run it online?"
You can't run a business in the real world in which you provide a service for anonymous clients? You mean like any place that accepts cash as a payment? Should hardware stores be responsible for people who buy tools and use them to hurt/kill people? Should the USPS be responsible for shipping anthrax/bombs/deaththreats? Should Walgreens be responsible if someone ODs on over the counter meds? Should gas stations be responsible for misuse of gasoline? Again, no 3rd party liability for all types of services in the real world but involve a computer and you want detailed records of every customer and a face to face interview at sign-up and personal visits daily to make sure they are using the product legally?
"Wow, you don't live in the real world, do you?"
Apparently, no you!
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Doing the Math for Etsy, MPAA/RIAA Style
Care to try again?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Doing the Math for Etsy, MPAA/RIAA Style
The driver could lose their life, their savings, their car... all because they don't self police.
Since SOPA does none of the things you are suggesting, I would say you pretty much missed the point.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Doing the Math for Etsy, MPAA/RIAA Style
And when one of those responsibilities becomes "assume all of your customers are guilty until proven innocent", there is something seriously wrong
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Doing the Math for Etsy, MPAA/RIAA Style
You see - you're thinking like them: we've got this amazing new technology, but you want things to still work like they always used to. That sort of mindset is putting brakes on progress.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Doing the Math for Etsy, MPAA/RIAA Style
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Re: Re: Doing the Math for Etsy, MPAA/RIAA Style
If content producers "knew their customers" and didn't provide content to those who will make it available to others illegally, we wouldn't have this problem in the first place. That's just as reasonable, right?
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Re: Re: Doing the Math for Etsy, MPAA/RIAA Style
First off, if the **AA's took the time up front to "know their customer" we wouldn't need really bad laws like SOPA at all.
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Re: Re: Doing the Math for Etsy, MPAA/RIAA Style
This is idiotic. Completely and utterly. Do you even comprehend the scale involved? Are you one of those tribesmen from South America whose native language only included words for the numbers 'one', 'two', and 'many'? Absolutely unworkable. It also presents a burden not required in the physical world for 3rd party services. Go sell crazy somewhere else, we're all stocked up here.
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Re: Re: Re: Doing the Math for Etsy, MPAA/RIAA Style
Of course he does. What they want is to remove anonymity and instate 3rd-party liability. This has two effects, one is it will have a chilling effect on users posting any content, whether infringing or not. I'm not sure which they're afraid of more. Second, it will make it much more expensive for service providers to accept content. This means they would have to stop accepting it, or accept so few users and so little content that they become irrelevant, or charge a bunch of money for services that have been free until now and go out of business.
The actual effect will be everything moves off shore or underground (assuming this pile of vomit passes).
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Re: Re: Doing the Math for Etsy, MPAA/RIAA Style
The scale of loss isn't as the movie and recording industries try to paint it. Scaremongering is apparently their best service, they do it well. There fixed that for you.
To the rest of your drivel, So you people basically want the rest of us to First give you virtually a never ending copyright (sort of completely goes against what the Framers had in mind), then pay you all for each instance of the content on whatever platform we may use. Then of course pay it over and over again, all the while being told we're criminals (FBI warnings) after we just gave you our fucking money (NOT stealing).
Then to top it all off you want US to do YOUR work protecting that copyright.
Oh yeah, that works.
Sure.
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Re: Re: Doing the Math for Etsy, MPAA/RIAA Style
Agreed, and while we are at it can we shut down the postal service for all that anthrax they shipped and fed-ex and UPS for all the drugs they ship. Really they should just get to know their customers, stop over for dinner and make sure they don't intend to ship anything illegal
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Re: Re: Doing the Math for Etsy, MPAA/RIAA Style
Right no one ever figures out what a bot is looking for and adjusts their tactics, by the way would you like to buy some V1@gr@ or P3n15 enl@rg1ng supplements?
But even still what keywords does you bot look for that will help it determine if any type of infringing material has been placed on it? Also will the bot look at pictures and have a database of every picture under copyright? Also what type of space-magic do I need to make this unicorn wake up?
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Re: Re: Doing the Math for Etsy, MPAA/RIAA Style
Getting scared, are we?
The sleeping Internet giant has been awakened from its' slumber, it is not happy, and it is making its displeasure clear to its' elected representatives.
This is what democracy looks like, shill.
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Re: Re: Doing the Math for Etsy, MPAA/RIAA Style
Your keywords idea sounds great in principal to you but it doesn't work in the real world.
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Re: Re: Doing the Math for Etsy, MPAA/RIAA Style
2) Your suggestion about a bot is stupid. Let me repeat that. S-T-U-P-I-D. Warner Bros. used exactly that on Hotfile and it was reported last week that they took down innocent files (they searched for the words "The Box" and anything that included those words was taken down as well, even if WB didn't have their copyrights). Do you actually think Etsy shops are going to have the words "Extremely Illegal Counterfeit Dangerous Stuff 4 Sale!"?
I have heard this type of comment before, about how if only there was no anonymity, things would be better. I suggest you research Silence Dogood. I'm not an American, but even I've heard about that. Research the positives that anonymity gives you and they vastly outweigh any negatives there are.
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Re: Re: Doing the Math for Etsy, MPAA/RIAA Style
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You've become sheerly fear-monger, Mike.
Here you're like the neo-cons and their "mushroom cloud" scenarios, and since you generally favor their crypto-fascist corporatism, I think you are a neo-con, trained at Ivy League school to manage for the 1%.
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Re: You've become sheerly fear-monger, Mike.
That seems appropriate, since SOPA is the nuclear option vis-a-vis copyright enforcement.
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Re: You've become sheerly fear-monger, Mike.
Well, I heard a lot of stuff with "...-fascist": like "neo-fascist", "right-fascist" and so on, but "crypto"? What the hell this even supposed to mean?
>> what Rapidshare and dozens of other sites DO every day
Pray tell us, what is this oh-so-horrible thing they do? But - don't worry, Rapidshare is in Germany, and I'm not in US, so - sucks to be American these days, ah?
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Re: You've become sheerly fear-monger, Mike.
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Re: Re: You've become sheerly fear-monger, Mike.
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Re: Re: Re: You've become sheerly fear-monger, Mike.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: You've become sheerly fear-monger, Mike.
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Re: You've become sheerly fear-monger, Mike.
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Re: You've become sheerly fear-monger, Mike.
Blue you are a fool. The unintended consequences and collateral damage that this bill would bring if passed are far too numerous to count and if you don't know this or worse, don't care. Then I have no sympathy at all for any of you when it all comes crashing down on you.
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Re: You've become sheerly fear-monger, Mike.
Back in the real world nobody is called a criminal for copying a recipe, copying a chair, or sharing anything only in the fantasy land of copyrights that is something horrible, which you idiot can't even show financial harm since, the same people who claim ownership are still able to sell whatever is that they try to sell.
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Re: Re: You've become sheerly fear-monger, Mike.
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Re: Re: Re: You've become sheerly fear-monger, Mike.
Doesn't mean you need a new law that does nothing against what you want to stop and gives you super powers to harm others that is all it does.
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Re: Re: Re: You've become sheerly fear-monger, Mike.
I can rip DVD's, Blurays and CD's, I can still use emails to transfer data, I can still use encryption, I can still find tones of software that have build-in search capabilities meaning it won't stop me from finding anything.
So what in that dreadful piece of crap bill will stop piracy?
Answer it won't, but it will give a-holes the power to harm business, that is all it does.
Want me to prove it to you right now?
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:42bb2d24e13cc2950244cdc90fdda537a9380975&dn=Rise.of.the.Planet.of.th e.Apes.2011.BluRay.720p.DTS.x264-CHD&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.openbittorrent.com%3A80&tr=udp%3 A%2F%2Ftracker.publicbt.com%3A80&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.ccc.de%3A80
There stupid, I can post that in any forum anywhere, including on the blogs of the RIAA and the MPAA.
How are you going to starve me financially?
How are you going to find me?
Stupid moronic shill.
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Re: Re: Re: You've become sheerly fear-monger, Mike.
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Re: Re: Re: You've become sheerly fear-monger, Mike.
Even Europeans saw the writing on the wall of the BS of SOPA.
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Re: Re: Re: You've become sheerly fear-monger, Mike.
Copyright should cease and desist.
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Re: You've become sheerly fear-monger, Mike.
So your suggestion is that Rapidshare, a site that allows users to share files instantaneously with relatively little web knowledge, is a bad thing because some people use it illegally, which Rapidshare actively cracks down against.
"You don't give a solution for actual infringement"
There isn't one. Tis' the way of the web. It is human nature to share ideas and experience, and any attempt to squash that will always fail.
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Re: You've become sheerly fear-monger, Mike.
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And a fourth site that could be in trouble
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Re: And a fourth site that could be in trouble
Since Twitter only operates on venture capital and donations they've got nothing to worry about.
;-P
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Re: Re: And a fourth site that could be in trouble
Wikileaks operated on donations through PayPal, from my understanding. PayPal shut off payments, no more WikiLeaks.
So hopefully venture capital is enough to keep Twitter running.
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Re: Re: Re: And a fourth site that could be in trouble
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Re: Re: Re: Re: And a fourth site that could be in trouble
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: And a fourth site that could be in trouble
That's why Mastercard and Visa are scared. They stand to lose relevance in the digital world if this gets pushed through.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: And a fourth site that could be in trouble
Even those wonderful debit card companies have to get them issued by either visa, mastercard, or an acquiring bank. They cannot just "skip out of the system". Further, any alternate payment system would be subject to SOPA (if used at all in the US), so you would be no further ahead.
All the squirming going on here is amusing. I think you guys woke up and realizes that many of your favorite hangouts and sources for illegal content are looking like they might either get shut down or lose the ability to pay for themselves, effectively shutting them down. I know that sucks for you, but hey... the free lunch couldn't last all the way to dinner time, could it?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: And a fourth site that could be in trouble
I very much doubt it, since everything you say is either unfounded opinion, ignores important factors or rests on assumptions that are easily disproven.
"the free lunch couldn't last all the way to dinner time, could it?"
I'm still waiting for the paid option to be available, thanks.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: And a fourth site that could be in trouble
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Re: Re: And a fourth site that could be in trouble
Wait for it to pass, then we take down MPAA and RIAA.
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Re: Re: Re: And a fourth site that could be in trouble
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Re: Re: Re: Re: And a fourth site that could be in trouble
Do the same for Batman, Twilight, Bieber, and everyone else. And then declare them "dedicated to infringing activity".
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Re: Re: Re: And a fourth site that could be in trouble
Not one bit, not even a little bit. There is ZERO accountability unless the accused accepts and mounts a full trial in their defense. Other than that, there is NOT A SINGLE BIT of reprecussions for incorrect, false or outright fradulent takedowns with this law.
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Profit
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Re: Profit
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Re: Profit
Theoretically. I imagine complaints against big companies will get some extra scrutiny while complaints by big rights holders against little guys are just executed immediately.
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Re: Re: Profit
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On top of that, SOPA uses incredibly broad definitions to define what is illegal. And all that is needed is a suspicion of illegal activity. In fact all that is really required is an IP owner who is afraid of what is going on.
This means that it is going to be almost impossible for any business to operate on the Internet unless it has a powerful team of lawyers, and even that might not be enough to keep a lot of businesses operating. Even the major media companies themselves may be vulnerable. Movie studios are constantly being threatened by legal action from people who claim their script was stolen. Record labels constantly face claims that new songs have stolen old songs. And that doesn't even cover the situations where the major IP gateholders have themselves really broken copyright law.
I can't imagine a law better designed to kill innovation and destroy jobs.
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Just one SOPA post today please...
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Re: Just one SOPA post today please...
Yeah, dammit!
Let's not put important current events in front of people, they get tired of hearing *real* news.
Let's get some bullshit distracting journalism up in this joint!
[/sarc]
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Re: Just one SOPA post today please...
Now, I am very interested in the impact SOPA will have and look forward to hearing more stories on the subject. Why? Because the issue is of the very utmost importance. There area lot of people who will simply forget about the issue until it is too late if they are not reminded. So let's make sure they don't forget.
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Re: Re: Just one SOPA post today please...
SOPA = Corruption of Government by Big Money
SOPA = The beginning of a Censored USA and once they open up that SOPA Door it will just get worse and worse as we slowly slide downwards to a police state.
FUCK YOU SOPA !!! I will fight you.
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Of course, it's unlikely that rightsholders will go after any of these sites now under SOPA. They're all big enough -- and can afford lawyers. But there's a real fear that the next generation of such sites will get shut down... or, worse, won't even start up at all, due to the massive potential liability.
replace sopa with dmca, etc... its not in their interest to act now, that would be too much work. sopa gives them the tool to do more damage in the future under the guise of law.
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What if 'pirated' copies of items are sold on E-Bay, Craigslist, or a local newspaper's classifieds - then they would be just as liable, correct?
This would apply to any site that might sell used items or perhaps new items from small businesses.
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If you have SOPA then every site is in violation.
Any questions?
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Could artists that are owed royalties by record companies, file notices to remove or block the record companies website from the internet? After all they could argue that as the “holder of an intellectual property right" they are being "harmed by the activities” of the record company?
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For Viacom:
Step One: Drop Lawsuit against Youtube.
Step Two: File SOPA claims against Youtube.
For UMG:
Step One: Drop Lawsuit against Grooveshark.
Step Two: File SOPA claims against Grooveshark.
For Tiffany or L'Oreal or Autodesk:
Step One: Drop lawsuit against EBay.
Step Two: File SOPA claims against EBay.
Of course, we could just trust they will not use SOPA against companies such as Grooveshark, Ebay, and Youtube. They will simply continue to spend money on lawyers and lawsuits to ... uh. What?
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Seriously, how many people would try to shut down Google?
Microsoft, Apple, Yelp... I could go on because that list is ridiculous.
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For Viacom and L'Oreal, they have all lost lawsuits on this subject already, and would find themselves having to fight uphill - and taking considerable risk of putting themselves in a bad position. I highly doubt they will be at the front of the line on this stuff.
Why do you think they would just go "hey great, we lost all the copyright lawsuits before, so let's make a claim that will likely be called false, and put ourselves at great risk, all for nothing?"
Further, let's make it clear, there are provisions inside SOPA (that nobody here seems to want to talk about) that address issues like good faith and such. I think you guys are working yourselves up into a lather without understand all of the implications. EFF (and Mike) are trying to scare the piss out of you. Mike's case seems to be mostly because his treasured business models and ideas fail if you cannot easily pirate everything without risks.
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We are just assuming the penalties will be enforced as often as they are for the DMCA. In other words, there is realistically no risk (at least to the major players) to issuing any kind of complaint, legitimate or otherwise.
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so you can categorically state, without fear of contradiction that no site is going to be taken down unintentionally, purposefully or with any sort of self-interest in mind, can you? i say to you 'BOLLOCKS'! you're living in cloud cuckoo land! what better way is there to eliminate competition than getting your competitor removed? no fight, no costs to you, only to the defendant (if there is sufficient money available), no need to upgrade your business model, business strategy or even your product! win-win situation for the backward and gutless!
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No we don't ALL know who will be targeted SOPA. And listing possible targets who you keep saying won't be targeted is in fact necessary.
Just because the content folks SAY it'll only be used one way doesn't mean they're telling the truth.
These are legitimate questions that need to be asked and weren't by legislators (well not all legislators).
Rights holders have proven over and over again they they can't even tell what's infringing and what isn't. They've also downright lied about what they actually hold the rights over in a DMCA notice. Why the fuck should we believe they won't abuse this.
I'm sorry the evidence just doesn't stack up in their favor.
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Yes, we do. Anyone who poses a commercial or political irritation to someone who has a legal budget will be targeted, irrespective of actual infringement.
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Idiots...
SOPA supporters.
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Unfortunately your immense trust in the "THEY" ignores that what the "THEY" consider as a site whose primary USE is to infringe content can and will be different from your own.
It is the historical truth of the "THEY"; that is why people came up with courts, judges, juries and all kinds of things including carefully phrased non-ambiguous laws in an attempt to put some controls on the "THEY" which the "THEY" are currently being quite successful in circumventing with, apparently, your full approval.
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Nightmare...
Take something as innocuous as Wikipedia. There are plenty of quotes and material in the site that will fall under SOPA jurisdiction.
Forget the un-imaginable value that this site provides, especially for students.
The lawyers will get hold of it, shake it down, strip it to the bare bones and then bury it.
And this will repeat over and over and over again until only the big players are left.
Do you see what's happening? It's not about infringement; it's about control. If you control the information that people have access to then you control them.
This is one of the primary goals of any tyrant.
There setting us up...
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Journalistic fair use (which is what much of Wikipedia falls under) would pretty much wipe that out first hand.
Nice idea, but FAIL!
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Well the first thing I'll do is...
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How I learned to stop worrying and LOVE SOPA
You see the the anti-SOPA lobby (most of us here) have assumed that the MPAA / RIAA (collectively known as the MAFIAA) weren't willing to adapt and viewed folk like Anonymous as a threat. That sending letters to individuals a-la ACS-LAW wasn't a viable strategy. Turns out we were wrong. They actually saw an opportunity. They watched, they learned and are proposing a new model even more impressive than the good old 'Denial of Service' attack the hackers use.
introducing...
D.o.S.H
(Denial of Safe Harbour)
This new 'model' is fantastic especially as you need virtually NO technical, creative or legal skills to play. It's truly open and democratic.
Here's how it works and how I plan to make millions! (so don't tell anyone!)
STAGE 1 - A&R
STAGE 2 - Exercise your Rights
I imagine a motivated team of ten could manage a few dozen each a day while sitting in the pub. Even with a 10% conversion rate you'll make a load of cash, secure in the knowledge that those who didn't play ball won't be able to make any money for themselves! Win Win!
You can of course do this with anything that can be copyrighted so feel free to make some films of you and your mates celebrating in the pub (Dogma movies are due for a resurgence anyway) and copyright them - go for it! You've even got the soundtracks ready made so you can pop a compilation out. Even Better! You are now 'Multimedia Copyright Owner' - diversification is everything in this day and age.
And there you have it - as far as I can tell under SOPA its totally legal - we as Copyright Owners and we are entitled to get paid without having to sell even ONE bit of content, attract ONE fan or play ONE gig. Superb. We truly have entered The Golden Age of Copyright.
If anybody says 'Conspiracy to defraud' just say 'The left hand didn't know what the right hand was doing' or better yet 'the tea-boy is going to lose his job UNLESS we do it'.
Go on - try this at home!
D.o.S.H.
the business model for the post-modern creative!
And that's why I've learned to stop worrying and love SOPA, it's going to make things soo much better.
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There's only two possibilities. Either Viacom did this deliberately, knowing all the while they're suing Youtube for something THEY did, or they didn't know about the videos, which is just as bad (and proves the point that Mike and others have been making all along, that its practically impossible to police effectively for infringement online).
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You certainly deserve to be number one at both the funny and insightful list at the end of the week!
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The only thing I've ever bought from Etsy is a decal sticker for my Macbook. The sticker was based on a Street Fighter 2 image, so it's technically infringing. An original work, but it's clearly based on copyrighted/trademarked images.
In a normal world, this isn't really a problem. Capcom don't sell nor licence Macbook decal stickers (to the best of my knowledge), so we have something that's realistically harmless, and even positive. A 3rd party is making money, yes, but there's no lost sale (since an equivalent official product is not available) and the decal itself can act as an advertisement for the 1st party product. Legal tools are available, but these are directed solely at the artist/seller, not Etsy.
In a world with over-eager protections, this becomes a problem but Etsy are still OK. They neither created nor approved the product, simply gave its seller some space. A DMCA takedown notice or some other order from the copyright/trademark holder can force Etsy to take down the product. So long as they comply, Etsy are OK, although they could choose overzealous protections (such as removing a seller or a class of product). Again, Etsy are safe so long as they comply, although the artist/seller can still be targeted directly (though they're often not since they don't the deep pockets preferred).
In a world with SOPA, nobody's safe. Etsy can be taken down completely at the whim of a copyright holder because a few of its sellers choose to sell potentially infringing products. Oh sure, you can say all they have to do is remove obviously infringing product but something *will* get through. At that point, an artist who feels that another artist has ripped him off can get the company shut down, without due process.
The trolls can claim it won't be used like this all they want, but we have prior examples of misuse and overzealous attacks using every previous legal measure from libel claims to DMCA takedowns to civil lawsuits. Your answer to concerns is "trust us" or to claim everybody who opposes is a pirate? Please...
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I'm surprised that noone seems to be mentioning this, but this piece of legislation, just like the DMCA before it, will do nothing whatsoever to stop the wanton infringement of intellectual property, and of course nothing to bring copyright law in line with reality, so the only things to support or oppose about this bill are the unintended consequences which will see political speech censored, innovative content platforms shut down, and socially awkward academics wringing their hands about whether or not their esoteric area of research might be legally questionable today where it wasn't yesterday.
The only good side of this legislation is that, as with the DMCA, it will hopefully take the vested interests a decade or so to realize that they have gotten nothing out of this entire process. It would almost be worth it to stop fighting against this, just to get that decade-long rest before they realize that people are still downloading free stuff from the internet as frantically as ever and cuddling up to Congress once again.
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Not sure where you've been, but it's been mentioned many, many times by a lot of people.
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Let's talk about baking instead
I do love a good chocolate chip cookie. The thing is, the ratio of chips to cookie has to be just right; too high and all you taste is the chocolate (granted, that's probably a positive for some people), too low and the overall cookie can turn out more of a cake-like consistency. Anyone have any tips on keeping a good cookie consistency even when you don't want a lot of chips? And don't say nuts. Don't you dare say nuts. Did you not even read the first paragraph? I'm thinking it might help to chop the chips a bit before adding them, so they're a bit smaller and more spread out, but that's a lot of effort for something I"m not even sure will work. Surely someone around here has some experience on this? I can't be the only one with a crossover of interests in tech and baking, right?
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I think you should send me a dozen of each to illustrate your point.
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Cutting off the financial institutions for these sites wont do anything
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I'm sick
Oh.. and the beauty... haking a website jut got better insted of taking the thing down and hope that it will lose some money in the mean time just post copyrighted material to look legit and then file a complain.... not only that I'm taking it down I'm cutting its money supply too.
By by competition... hahaha
So if you own a blog like this one you should have as much content on it as you can read every day... you might not now when you find some content that you didn't write...
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In fact, business will simply leave the US.
...but they'll start up *outside the US*. Etsy, Flickr, Google, every last one will move its entire operations overseas.
This has happened before on a smaller scale; insane US regulations about cryptography mean that *every* cryptography company is located outside the US.
This would be bigger, though. I really do believe that Google, unless it managed to kill the law in the courts, would pull up stakes and move its entire operation overseas, lock stock and barrel.
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Regarding the payment system
...then it's pretty trivial for one of the "minor" European credit card operators to make itself into the dominant payment system in the world. One of the European countries will seize the opportunity and make it legal for them to provide credit cards to Americans.
The US government, if it's still run by *idiots*, might retaliate by making it illegal for Americans to get foreign credit cards. Of course that would be entirely unenforceable. It would be the final, unstoppable step in the permanent disintegration of the American government's power, and the collapse of the American economy, though. Everyone in the US would get "illegal" foreign bank accounts in order to use the Internet, and pretty quickly American law would become a widely-ignored irrelevance, as *every* business would be run from outside the US.
I think the US government is not run by people quite that stupid, so eventually they will realize that the MPAA/RIAA types need to be shot (metaphorically, of course) in order to ensure the survival of every other American business.
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Next up on the agenda
A more graphic, less realistic analogy being; shooting bird shot into a crowded bank to get one robber. You will maim or kill innocents while trying to take down one bad guy. Of course, all the next baddy has to do is wear light body armor (which you can make at home) as bird shot does not have the impact to decisively end every robber under every circumstance.
Basically, it will cause a ton of problems for the normal user and the pirates will continue to pirate. More hackers will turn into crackers and may/will eventually lead to large scale organized cyber-crime. Just think, in the near future you maybe a cyber-mafia member or a cyber-moonshiner, running your contraband through a network of makeshift servers that are completely separated from the rest of the internet.
As for those of you who think SOPA will not be abused, I will give you the words "McDonald's" and "coffee", tell me idiotic story comes to mind.
As a closing note, some philosophy:
Without law, no one is a criminal. Without criminals, there is no point to law.
Think on that and tell me what the purpose of law really is. Hint: "Stamping out crime without regard to the negative impact it may cause." is not the answer.
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Don't Kid Yourself, Etsy Encourages Violations!
Etsy actually encouraging people to make licensed items.
For THAT, they deserve to fry under this new rule.
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For THAT, they deserve to fry under this new rule.
So by "licensed items" I assume you mean "unlicensed items"? Because if it's licensed, then there's no problem because it's done with the permission of the trademark owner.
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Protest against Etsy
I have started an online petition againt Etsy Marketplace Integrity team to change the ways they determine whether an item is vintage/handmade or not. They are doing this quietly and we must make our voices heard.
Please raise your voice and sign here: https://www.change.org/p/etsy-marketplace-integrity-team-to-change-the-way-they-determine-the-age-of -a-vintage-item-sold-in-their-marketplace-by-etsy-shop-owners-even-items-without-written-date-label- tag-should-be-considered-vintage
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with respect to sopa
hosting business is the most crucial domain, I mean to say most of the business are either strong or vulnerable enough due to hosting providers, Few Year back I bout a cheap hosting by using a coupon collected @ COUPON FOND
I think I have bought a shared plan of GoDaddy and It works very much fine for my architect business portfolio. Never Ignore the edge of SSL ON YOUR PAGES.
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