Red Cross Wants Real Life Laws Enforced Within Virtual Worlds
from the reality-fiction-all-the-same dept
Kotaku has published an article in which the International Committee of the Red Cross proposes that real life laws such as the Geneva and Hague Conventions should be enforced within video games. Before you get too riled up, they are not proposing that video game players be locked up and punished for war crimes for actions performed within the game, but are rather proposing that game designers program those conventions into the games.In computer and video games, violence is often shown and the players become 'virtually violent'. However, such games are not zones free of rules and ethics. It would be highly appreciated if games reproducing armed conflicts were to include the rules which apply to real armed conflicts. These rules and values are given by international humanitarian law and human rights law. They limit excessive violence and protect the human dignity of members of particularly vulnerable groups.These types of arguments are very similar to the arguments made by those who have requested laws regulating violence in video games in the past. Those people argued that the lack of consequences in the game would influence player behavior in real life. We know that the US Supreme Court rejected those arguments as the science behind them was not sound. But we all know that pesky court rulings never get in the way of those who want to control human behavior.
The practically complete absence of rules or sanctions is nevertheless astonishing: civilians or protected objects such as churches or mosques can be attacked with impunity, in scenes portraying interrogations it is possible to torture, degrade or treat the prisoner inhumanely without being sanctioned for it and extrajudicial executions are simulated.
The Red Cross is looking to have game developers to voluntarily include these laws within the game world noting that some developers already take the time to do it. If that fails, it has no qualms about getting the government involved.
One possible course of action could be to encourage game designers/producers to incorporate IHL in the development and design of video games, while another could be to encourage governments to adopt laws and regulations to regulate this ever-growing industry.I don't know why they think that a law regulating this would succeed, especially this soon after the US Supreme Court ruled that such laws are a violation of the US Constitution. Even with all that, such a law would be just as pointless as applying it to a movie such as Commando or Rambo. People look to entertainment as an escape from reality. Why would they want to play a video game that would end up with them being punished for war crimes? That doesn't sound like fun to me.
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Filed Under: geneva conventions, hague conventions, video games, war games
Companies: red cross
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Someone has waaaaay to much time on their hands.
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Mission creeps?
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I dont remember all the rules...
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Re: I dont remember all the rules...
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Re: Re: I dont remember all the rules...
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baseless rumors
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The Red Cross is on to something here.
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What? That violence in videogames isn't governed by real-life laws or that games based on black ops teams and mercenaries won't follow the Geneva convention?
Not particularly insightful either way.
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Maybe. It would also be more authentic if the character's death or injury was made permanent. Why would anyone play such a game?
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Oh wait...
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The real problem does not lie with the game, but rather that this kind of actions are actually done be intelligence agencies (what an irony that designation is...) and that the red cross actually is absolutely powerless to stop it.
So instead of actually trying to change reality they go on to shoot the messenger so that they can bask in there alleged moral superiority by having done something to protect human rights while the only thing they actually accomplish is that any media portrayal and in extend every real public discussion gets shut down. Out of sight, out of mind.
What they don't realize is, that these scenes are actually quite controversial and widely criticized in public, so rather than trying to ban they should use that debate as a platform to steer the discussion to the real war crimes and cruelties committed on a daily basis.
This course of action is just a pathetic attempt to force the media to show a clean and happy world where there is none in reality.
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Wow. If you think slaughtering animals is the worst thing in the Iliad, I suggest you read the non-Disneyfied version. Frankly, the level of barbarity in the poem outstrips just about any modern video game, movie, or book you could name. But I guess the same could be said for most of the bronze age myths as well.
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Or that was a scene from a movie I once saw. Given the realism of today's video games I find it hard to discern right from wrong, reality with fiction.
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F them, they cant actually stop the real life crimes so they need to attack video games.
Dont worry, you will still be able to waterboard, parade your POW's around naked with potato sacks on their heads, and dogpile said POW's just to take pictures.
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Jack Thompson ... is that you?
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There is no way to regulate human nature. Every law that tries to is doomed to failure.
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The field of ethics somewhat necessarily depends on the framework of the universe it is embedded in. I'm pretty sure that bluffing in poker is not considered unethical, for example. Likewise, shooting a wounded player in Battlefield 3 is not unethical, because the framework of that game does not allow for the nuances of the real world, nor are the consequences for that action remotely similar.
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When I was a kid I used to love playing a racing game called Road Rash, not to win the races, but to run over as many innocent civilians (and animals) as possible, including the guy waving the flags at the start of the races! Horribly violent isn't it! I may have come in last place, but I beat up a few cops, and ran over half the civilians in the area during the race!
Then I got older and got my driver's license! Ut oh, so how many people have I run over, how many cops have I beat up? Well... none... but I have almost hit a few innocent pedestrians that I didn't see, isn't that violent enough for you to see we need to do something about video game violence! Well I guess not, since I didn't hurt anyone. But... think of all the grass I've killed by driving my car over it! Video Games made me violent enough to murder grass and take pleasure in doing it with off road driving!
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http://www.theonion.com/articles/videogame-characters-denounce-randomly-placed-swin,293/
The problem has got worse in recent years as well.
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Redic
Seriously, this has less than zero chance of going anywhere, beyond a thought exercise. Stunts like this should make people think twice before giving money to the Red Cross, as this demonstrates the organization has too much money and not enough focus on real-world problems.
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Fail
Yet I wouldn't punch any1 unless the person is a real threat to my life. Yet I find it horrifying when I see news about rapists, murderers, war crimes etc and (wow!) I'm engaged in some efforts to prevent such abuses (Aavaz etc).
The point is RC is missing the point. As Ishihara and the Unicef thing in Japan miss the point. Fantasy is where you get your mind free of the shackles of reality. It's not real, normal ppl know it's not real and they don't feel like bringing it to reality. In my fantasy I may have an harem of female sex slaves. It doesn't mean I'll mistreat my girl in real life and treat her badly. In my fantasy I may see little lolis (ero and porn involving underage boys and girls) having sex but that doesn't mean I'll be a pedo in real life. It's FANTASY.
Seems some ppl lack the ability to dream, fantasize and split real from fantasy and thus want to impose their handicap on everyone.
Go ahead, try to regulate my dreams and see me laugh as you fail ;)
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Why should people be allowed to have fun?
Besides, this kind of "fun" just encourages evil in real life. Another thing, we still permit those so-called "plays" like Macbeth and King Lear to be performed. These are just lessons in how to commit Regicide. It's past time those were banned too.
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To real?
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War Crimes?
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Re: War Crimes?
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999 hours spent in a virtual jail cell for war crimes.
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Except for Phoenix Wright. There I used legal tricks to keep people OUT of prison.
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But it's a slippery slope to think we need to include real world laws in all violent video games. What about games in which you're playing a bad guy? It's central to the conflict that the "good guys" will be trying to kill you. Why would you try to adhere in international law or the Geneva Convention if you're playing an immoral bad guy?
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He was playing a war arcade game and saw that the UN vans kept getting in the way. In frustration he began shooting only the UN trucks.
This was the scene where he realized that using a combination of arcade games and toys (or drones if you will) he could make war more efficient.
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So awesome!
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Easy escape
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Re: Easy escape
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Clearly they have never spent any amount of time on XBox Live voice lobby.
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You'll get in reality what you won't censor even virtually.
With video games, you ARE being conditioned to accept evil and tyranny. It's long past time for a moral panic. You'll have to live in the world you allow, and it's already beginning to get grim out there.
O course, you kids won't care about actual war crimes until affects you. -- You don't care now about those still going on in Iraq, hundreds of thousands dead based on a pack of lies. -- But you've no basis to complain about being merely censored with SOPA when you don't object to people being murdered. Morality can't be pieced up. Evil can't be kept "virtual", it's never safe to have that kind of "fun".
And why do you wish to be able to commit war crimes within a game?
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Re: You'll get in reality what you won't censor even virtually.
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Re: Re: You'll get in reality what you won't censor even virtually.
"Have you ever met a conspiracy theory you haven't fallen instantly in love with?"
How is what OOTB said a conspiracy?
out_of_the_blue, Dec 5th, 2011 @ 8:40am
And why do you wish to be able to commit war crimes within a game?
OOTB I just like to kill shit in video games. Broken glass in a prisoners mouth, FUCK YEAH!!! Kill puppies? Where do I sign up? Light them on fire, then piss on them to put them out. WOOO HOOO!!!
Guess what? IT IS NOT REAL. If anyone believs different then they have issues that would have come out, video games or not.
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Re: Re: You'll get in reality what you won't censor even virtually.
As with Movies, TV, etc, you are being desensitized to increasing violence and gore.
"you ARE being conditioned to accept evil and tyranny"
Look what the American ppl allow in their name all in the name of terror.
I dont remember where I saw it, but there was this cartoon that showed American troops showing up in Germany and gasping, and in the next frame was American troops showing up in Iraq and being like Cool!!
Because we are OK with this now:
http://www.theirsecrets.info/waterboarding.jpg
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Re: You'll get in reality what you won't censor even virtually.
I allowed this how - exactly?
Do not tell me I voted for this, because as everyone knows, that is BS.
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Re: You'll get in reality what you won't censor even virtually.
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Re: You'll get in reality what you won't censor even virtually.
Yes, I do understand where you're coming from, you're more worried about this military bill than you are about SOPA. I myself oppose injustices like this in every form, so I talk against SOPA and against the military bill.
And what's with your last question? Of course I want to commit virtual war crimes! It's fantasy! An outlet for pent up aggression! There have been days where I feel like murdering a bunch of people, so I go home and play something violent, like Bioshock. What if this applies to computer game versions of chess? I have a piece ready to capture my enemy queen, but Red Cross rules say I have to let her surrender, or my taking her could be considered rape etc?
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Pioneering
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I'm with the Red Cross on this one
This, however, should never be government mandated.
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Re: I'm with the Red Cross on this one
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Re: I'm with the Red Cross on this one
If some game developer really wants to create a realistic game - including embedded reporters, media distorting the truth, insurgents using civilians as cover, etc. - they will fail miserably on one point over all others: We don't play first person shooters so we have to wait for proper authorization to fire our weapon. We play them to kill shit and blow things up.
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Easy Fix
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Re: Easy Fix
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Re: Easy Fix
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How far can we go?
As a side note, I don't have a problem with the stores selling this game as long as it's stocked right next to Grand Theft Auto.
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Re: How far can we go?
Wow ... a video game for bigots - LOL
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Re: How far can we go?
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You know, this isn't a bad idea!!!
Ooh! Then there's the Blood Mobile, something we can jack in Grand Theft Auto!
Hold the phone! We can go so far as asking online people for donations!!!
Where do I sign up.
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There are no violent video games
I'll agree to this when hockey players are arrested for assault when fighting on the ice, which I think they should be, and the same rules apply to movies, TV, photography, books, magazines, music/songs, paintings, dance and all other forms of human story-telling.
It's make-believe people ... IT'S NOT REAL!
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So... should we censor history too? That's where many of these concepts come from - they don't come from games, they come from the history of humans, many games are modeled after that, with fantasy tossed in, of course.
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*Get the torch and pitchforks*
You wanna see violence? Yea, go ahead, start mucking around in my hobby.
Get a life people.
I blame reality TV for people trying to come up with the craziest sh#$T just to have their name plastered around. Now everyone wants their 15 min of fame. Instead of limiting it to reality tv, it's now bled over into IRL.
Get back in your hole, the lot of you!
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games?
If you even think about comparing the two, you are a COLOSSAL idiot, and are crapping on the memories of real war victims and soldiers
Face, meet palm
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For a wounded man shall say to his assailant, "If I live, I will kill you. If I die, you are forgiven."
Such is the rule of honor."
The only rule we need.
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Just a thought
Warco happens to be one of those games. Instead of a gun, you have a camera. Instead of killing, your job is to document. Perhaps the Red Cross should look into making these unique ideas of storytelling instead of trying to enforce others to do the same.
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I think their goal is a pretty good one. Whether you agree or disagree that video games influence real-world actions, they most cirtainly challenge players to think critically and make decisions that impact the game world. Players should be informed and challenged to complete their objectives with consideration of relevant conventions and treaties -- factual or fictional.
In the process, players would encounter dilemmas parallel to those faced by our military and political leaders (obviously with consequences far more limitted). Within the game world, we would have a choice whether to uphold our standards possibly with greater challenge or risk to ourselves (our characters) or to violate them. And no Mike, the punishment does not have to be time served in a virtual jail cell - try to use a little more imagination. Punishment for violating the convention can come in a variety of manners be it increased resistance from local forces, defection of friendlies, etc (People only say etc when they run out of ideas, right? No argument here, but I trust our game designers can think of a few more).
Every gamer will draw their own line, but one can hope that they will consider new possibilities outside of a shoot-first strategy that could frame or semi-accurately inform real-world debate. I think that is the goal of the Red Cross... not censorship.
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reality check
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Does that mean we can enact our War on TF2 now?
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Noooooooooo...
Cute kid with lollipop: "What now mother fucker?"
Me: "Noooooooooo..."
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And here I thought it was about escapism
I mean, really. WTF?
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Dimensia
"...where out troops have come under fire from insurgents...". Out troops? Gays in the military is a whole different debate. Besides, if a foreign power invaded your country, took it over, occupied it, and killed its people, wouldn't you become what the invaders would call an "insurgent"?
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Red Cross and Video Games
1. Worst Supreme Court ever. The only SC to elect a President in violation of the wishes of the public.
2. "Pegging" at an extreme position undermines your argument. I will listen to reasonable people, but people who take very extreme, emotional positions on a subject are not compelling.
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Flee restrictive games to scratch itch in reality??
If people want to ignore the negatives to focus on any pleasure they might have attached to torture, they will feed that hunger with insects, animals, and work their way up.. game or no game. Games do however provide a safety net for those who don't want to get their hands dirty but don't want to be denied decision-making or any potential guilty itch-scratching.
So, the Red Cross can certainly be brought into games to add game options and some of the reality we sometimes crave, but "can" and "must" are two different things.
In fact, adding restrictions in a game may lead some to seek reality as a way to cheat and beat the game restrictions -- just what the Red Cross was trying to avoid!
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Of course why majorly Yes
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