ICE Propaganda Film Pats Itself On The Back For Censoring The Web; Promises Much More To Come
from the walk-and-talk-john dept
Homeland Security's ICE (Immigration & Customs Enforcement) group has put out a slickly produced video patting itself on the back for all of its work censoring the web in 2011, and promising much more of that kind of thing in the future:He's wrong. First of all, the "job loss" from counterfeits is totally and completely exaggerated. As has been shown by multiple studies, most people buying counterfeits (hell, and downloading infringing works) wouldn't have bought the real thing instead. They know they're buying a fake good. So no "job" is lost there. And, as the government's own GAO noted last year, the idea that this all leads to lost jobs simply isn't supported by the data.
Second, enforcement does not "save jobs." It does put massive burdens on legitimate sites. Something Morton should know about since he's been taking down legitimate American sites with no legal basis for quite some time.
But before we get to that, he shows off some counterfeit products. There's a handbag, some fake drugs (they always have to show the fake drugs, despite it being a tiny issue, but they have to show some sort of "danger"). And then there's a video game mod chip. He says it "allows you to hack into video games and steal the game for free. That's illegal. That's IP theft." Of course, it's debatable if mod-chips are really illegal. They have substantial non-infringing purposes other than "hacking into video games to steal them for free" (do people steal stuff not for free?). But, you know, that's ICE under John Morton: declaring it illegal for you to modify products you legally purchased, like your gaming console. Thanks, US government!
Then we get to website censorship. And boy is he proud of that. You can see him gleaming as he says that ICE has "done a phenomenal job" and "every time they make a bust, every time they make an arrest, an American job is saved."
So, I wonder, can John Morton explain whose job was saved when his staffers incorrectly seized and censored Dajaz1.com for over a year? I'm curious. Because it sure seems like he actually hurt the ability of the Americans who run that site to make money. I'm curious whose job was saved when his staff deported a missing teen to Colombia (where she was not from). Is that the kind of "phenomenal" work under John Morton we should expect more of?
He then shows off "the news coverage" that ICE has gotten for seizing websites. Notice that he leaves out the stories about the mistaken seizure of multiple websites beyond Dajaz1. Like the seizure of 84,000 legitimate sites that were replaced with a statement claiming that they were all involved in child porn. Somehow those clips just didn't make the cut. Phenomenal work "saving American jobs!"
Morton goes on to talk up how "proud of the results" he is over the seizing of websites. Once again, no mention of the ones he seized by mistake, causing tremendous harm to those who he falsely declared as criminals. What's amazing is that he's never issued an apology over those false seizures. Instead, he's "proud of the phenomenal job" his team has done? What a joke.
Finally, he highlights the PSA that ICE put on the websites they forfeited. What he leaves out, of course, is that the PSA was both created by and owned by NBC Universal -- something ICE has never publicly admitted, but which we found out via FOIA requests. It's still shocking that a government agency would be using misleading propaganda from a private company and pretending that it's an official government production. Even worse, despite numerous requests, ICE has failed to show any proof that it properly licensed the video from NBC Universal, leading us to wonder if they "pirated" it.
ICE under John Morton has become a massive joke and a disgrace to American ideals of innocent until proven guilty and important things like free speech and due process. Rather than making this joke of a video (which certainly has Hollywood-style production... I wonder how that happened...), Morton should be issuing apologies for the mistakes that were made under his watch, and tendering his resignation. Instead, he's celebrating? Sickening.
Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.
While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.
–The Techdirt Team
Filed Under: censorship, counterfeiting, domains, homeland security, ice, john morton, operation in our sites
Reader Comments
Subscribe: RSS
View by: Time | Thread
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1d4xjU8DpQ
Does not allowing comments.
That is always a sign that they are espousing a line of bull sh!t, and that what they are saying doesn't hold up to any scrutiny. Much like the MPAA blog ...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
You can tell how much they're pushing the bull and stepping in its remains.
I kind of find it funny though... Morton seems to believe that SD cards are thieving devices. So when is he going to take down SanDisk for illegal theft of American jobs?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Takedowns
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
If they allowed it they would be bombarded with negative responses.They think they can just go on and on and get away with what they do.
In the end I have the feeling they will be in for some real issues from the Computer Literates around the World.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
not falling in line and blindly worshiping their rules/agenda?
say hello to censorship, where anyone who dares speak out against the god of IP is immediately silenced or prevented from speaking out in the first place
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
http://deturl.com/bookmarklet-to-directly-download-videos-from-youtube.asp
Bookmark that link and when you want to download a YouTube video, just select that bookmark. It will give you a bar across the top of the page listing all the available formats to download the video in.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
Will let you know when they reply.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9lSySWnVBs&t=32m49s
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
That idea was already debunked. "88.5 percent of Americans' consumer spending is on things made in the U.S."
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/business/2011/08/made-china-goods-only-small-sliver-us-consu mption-fed-finds/41233/
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
One example is this:
So, it is stating that a majority of the measured G&S purchased is Services, not Goods. Of course services are local. Please tell me how to outsource your Starbucks cashier. I want to know so I can figure out how to cash in on the remote service industry...
The highlight is this part:
The market share of foreign goods is highest in durables, which include cars and electronics.
While it is difficult to outsource services (Outside of the call center scenario), it is easy to outsource physical goods manufacturing.
If you take this as a whole, and remove the part that is almost impossible to outsource, then the numbers look very much different.
12% of all durable goods (Highest in household goods)
6.4% of all non-durable goods (highest in clothing/shoes).
This honestly looks like at attempt to cover it all up by saying "Look, we spend more money locally then internationally", but if you look at the amount of money spent on good/services that can realistically be produced locally instead of internationally, it starts to get very one sided again (We import what we can, but many things that is not possible with).
I mean, fuel? Of course that is at 0.1. China is one of the largest importers, they do not have surpluses to sell, and our biggest supplier of petrol products is South American countries.
I am still wondering why services is even on this list, since it seems like an artificial prop to make the numbers look better.
Housing: How can I buy a house in the US that is in China...
Household operations: Once I can figure out how to get Chinese cleaning ladies to come over to your US house, and Chinese Plumbers to fix your US sinks, this could change too....
Transportation: The MRT works great here, but I think getting from Xinzhuang to Donghu will not help people in LA...
Medical Care: Just dial 1-800-mychinesedoctor?
Recreation: Not everyone wants to go to that nice Chinese theater when their local cinaplex is just down the road.
Other services: Just don't have any more jokes.
So, basically, I cannot take this "study" seriously, when it lumps things that practically cannot be outsourced in with things that can in fact be outsourced.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Well that should be obvious Mike, ICE saved jobs at ICE, by making themselves look like they were doing something! Congress can't cut the budget of department that's actually saving American jobs!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
I'm going to be disappointed unless somebody does a parody of this video explaining how you can steal an American job by exploiting the legal system to remove legal American web sites for over a year with no institutional recourse.
ICE: Stealing American jobs. Unless you've bought a congresscritter, of course.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Police State
Man, thick thick propaganda... kinda chokingly stinks.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
A bit biased....
I wonder how much taxpayer money was used to make this propaganda PSA and if the entertainment or IP lobby contributed any.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
As everyone knows, jobs actually LOSE VALUE when people 'work' in them. Have you ever heard of 'used jobs' at all? Of course not--they're that worthless. What Morton is doing by stopping all of these legal, profitable businesses is in fact saving thousands, maybe millions, of brand-new American jobs--for later, when they will potentially exist. As Benjamin Franklin so nearly said, a job SAVED is a job EARNED.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
The only "new" jobs are low-pay. For example, the jobs that GE created were very low paying jobs with shit benefits. Yay GE created jobs in an economy where people need them, but forgot that a higher standard of living was established and these new jobs help AMERICANS barely make ends meet!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Jobs Gone offshore?
Nice try to spin the facts. Too bad the public at large is not smart enough to see through this facade.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Jobs Gone offshore?
What? Damn those consumers, choosing lower prices, trying to more efficiently spend hard earned money!!!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Jobs Gone offshore?
Some do, some don't. So you can be sarcastic about it all you want, but it is still a fact that consumers themselves are partly to blame.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Jobs Gone offshore?
Consumers want cheaper prices. All other things being equal, the cheaper product is superior. This is a "fault" or something requiring "blame".
You're moralizing over something amoral (not immoral, amoral). What is it consumers are to blame for? Manufacturing jobs move to parts of the world with cheaper labour. You clearly view this as a problem, but "solving" this requires protectionist policies, bigger gov't and a less efficient market.
Manufacturing jobs moving to parts of the world where labour is cheaper is progress. While unfortunate and sad for parts of North America like Detroit, etc... the only alternative is inefficiencies which result in a net loss.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Jobs Gone offshore?
Missed a word, dangit.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Jobs Gone offshore?
You're going WAY off the deep end and putting words into my mouth.
There are alternatives to these "inefficiencies" you refer to. For one, how efficient is it (think of it globally now, including the environment) to have your fruit grown in Canada, shipped to the US to be waxed, shipped back to Canada for a higher price? Would it not be more efficient to just transfer it from the orchards (much closer to their ripe-date) to the markets?
If you actually have the means to do so, would it not be more efficient to buy from a local farmer who isn't trucking their produce all over and coating it will pesticides (or at least using less) then waxing it to make it look healthy?
In terms of manufacturing in the Detroit area, the first problem is you need to change the mindset of a) the management and b) the workers (and obviously their union 'leaders').
Once you give a few people a reality check, once you actually bargain for useful skill training, work pools, decent wages (not $24.53/hr with 4 weeks vacation to ride a floor sweeper -- Navistar, 1998) with some benefits provided by the company and some by employees themselves... Would that not be more efficient than building plants in Mexico where you struggle to produce 30 trucks a day while the Chatham plant turns out over 110 a day (and with far less defects)?
So you see, there are inefficiencies, but these can be ironed out.
The consumer does want cheaper items, and I agree with that, but it comes at a price; products manufactured in foreign countries, not here!
As to your "which result in net loss" you are missing some information. In 1996 Chrysler waiting lists 6 months long for their minivans and every 42 seconds $7000 PROFIT (not revenue) rolled off the lines in Windsor (see Droullard Road plant).
So, people want cheaper vehicles, companies want higher profits with cheaper labour, the result is simple, foreign manufacturing.
So consumer choice does play a factor in the decision for companies to reduce costs. Try to build computer components here for close to the same price as those made in Taiwan and China? You can't. Should you blame the customer? NO, and I never said to. But the fact that even if you did build components here and assemble them here, you would struggle to make sales compared to the cheaper stuff in China. Is the customer choosing cheaper items a factor, absolutely, should they be blamed and SOPA used to punish them, NO. I emphasized that so you don't try to inject words or change context.
Cheers!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Jobs Gone offshore?
When you say I can make this oversees for 5 dollar less a widget and ship it over here for only 4 dollars a widget we make money. Or you can eat the dollar and hire Americans but whatever.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Jobs Gone offshore?
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120106/03474817298/ice-propaganda-film-pats-itself-back -censoring-web-promises-much-more-to-come.shtml#c145
Look at item C)
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Jobs Gone offshore?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
ICE
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
The children!
/troll
To be employed in the ICE you have to:
1- be able to stick your head into your ass for a lifetime;
2- be technologically impaired;
3- have a hugely inflated ego;
4- take it up your arse from the big corporations.
Actually I think that applies to be in politics with a few additions but that's for another article.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: The children!
if they have to have their head up their 24/7 for the rest of their life... how can they take it up the ass? it's already occupied with their head
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: The children!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: The children!
When big corporations rub money on the politicians their arses suffer a lot of dilatation in order to receive the extra money. Empirically proven.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: The children!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: The children!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: The children!
oh god... i always suspected that the MAFIAA would stoop to this level of disturbed depravery
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: The children!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: The children!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Parodies..
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Parodies..
Mind, I'm sure they'd be hilarious, because when the original video is already such a joke, you can only go up from there, I just highly doubt ICE would allow people to mock their propaganda like that.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Would you like to know more?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
sure
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
Watch Starship Troopers.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
http://thereelseal.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/starshiptroopers1.jpg
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Perhaps it would help if you used a disclaimer that what you say is your personal opinion based upon third party hearsay, and not based upon a legal analysis using objective facts (a necessary condition that I am certain you impress upon your students on a daily basis).
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
FTFY
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Kids! Put down those imported Flintst�nes vitamins and take a handful of Tylenol! Let's see... yep... it's got the official "kid-tested, Morton-approved" logo on it. Safe for consumption and easily twice the price of its competitors!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Free markets
I look at things like these bags and shoes the same as art. Someone who buys a copy of a famous painting to hang in their home knows it is not the real thing. They could never afford the real one so they settle for the copy. Now there are always those though that will settle for nothing less than the original and will pay millions to own originals. No amount of cheep copies will make the original worth less. The same is true of these products.
So long as the true manufacture makes a quality product they will always have people willing to pay for it. The cheep made in China or whatever products will have flaws and not be of the same quality. If the knockoffs are of same or better quality then the maker needs to look at their production and fix the problem.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Wait a minute. Did Mike actually embed a DOJ video on his site?
Based on DOJ's other law-stretching legal theories, wouldn't they consider Mike aiding and abetting criminal infringement for embedding this? (Fair use? That's just a fairytale that wasn't created by Morton's boss Disney - so it can't possibly exist.) The users are viewing it and Mike has ads on his page.
Maybe this whole thing is a honeypot scheme to silence Mike without having to pay $100,000,000.00.
[/tinfoil hat]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
The $100,000,000.00 link is just priceless. You, sir, are doing it right.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
No Comments on Youtube channel
And while everyone here is aware of ICE's mistakes, no one else is any the wiser!
You can't like or dislike or comment on their video, which proves they know they are full of shit and want single-direction communication (not even half-duplex).
That shows you what ICE is really about, along with the US Gov's integrity and accountability.
You worry about Romney lying to win votes? Even if Ron Paul were to win, he'd either be assassinated or just as bad as Bush/Obama for making changes the people want, and I actually would vote for Paul (despite not agreeing with cutting EPA/Education/etc.. funding).
You want change? It won't come from a leader. Until the masses demand change in a unified voice that any idiot could understand (OWS isn't unified enough and you need to GET THAT MESSAGE OUT), you won't see change.
Too bad overriding signals like they did on UHF wasn't possible. That was a great way to show-up corporations. I don't know how to do it, but those who do should definitely do it. Don't just hack one news site, hack them all! Have all of them expose everything at once. Hack the cable stations and broadcaster stations and display truths instead of BS.
Maybe, just maybe, it would cause enough people to question to maybe make some change.
But until you wake people up from their daily slumbers they call "life" you won't see that change.
ICE is slippery like the frozen water item sharing from which the Gov composed its name.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
SOPA/PIPA = WAR and so does the antics of ICE.I am waiting for millions of people to all join in and hack n crack.
And I also really want to see a real Boycott of all things RIAA & MPAA NOW !
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Deportation: Perhaps people should provide their real name.
GAO: To be accurate, what the GAO did say was that the economic effect could not be quantified. It did not say the data was "false" or that it was "true".
84,000 sites: IIRC, rectified within about 24 hours.
PSA: So what? Perhaps they should have simply had some for hire ad agency create the same thing. Would that make you happy?
PSA licensed: Tempest in a teapot. Does anyone seriously believe it was used without the consent of the author? BTW, under federal law it could have been used even if author screamed "foul" at the top of his/her lungs. See: 28 USC 1498. I follow litigation associated with this section of law quite closely, and no suit for recompense by the author of the PSA has been filed with the Federal Court of Claims. I find this rather telling.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Immigration - Destroying American families
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
"Censorship is the suppression of speech or other public communication which may be considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, or inconvenient to the general body of people as determined by a government, media outlet, or other controlling body." - WP
Dajaz1 (i.e., a public website) was taken down (i.e., suppressed) for a year by a government entity. Sounds accurate to me.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
But just in case..
Dajaz1: the correct seizure and forfeiture process were not followed, legal deadlines not respected, site owners and lawyers denied details and information to proceed properly. Not direct censorship indeed. But a huge denial of due process. But you know that, you are just trolling.
Deportation: UNDERAGE TEEN RUNNING FROM HOME. Because teens always know what they are doing. Thank you for your trolling.
GAO: if it can't be quantified then any quantification is false. But you are twisting the facts. Troll.
84k sites: I'll put a banner in your Facebook and an auto-reply in your e-mail redirecting ppl to an official notice that you are a pedophile for 24 hours. Sounds good? Trollolol.
PSA: You fight copyright infringement telling ppl it's easy to identify and with all zealotry then you disregard copyright when yourself infringe it. If everything was fine why so secret? Trololilolol.
I rate your trolling 3/10 because you are trampling with children. Bad boy.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
PSA: Pray tell, where is it shown that copyright was infringed? As I noted, the total absence of any action before the Court of Federal Claims is quite telling indeed.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
Was it? Doesn't even look like that is remotely true.
"Secret" extensions (so secret the defendant's lawyers weren't even notified) by the Government beyond the normal time frames is not following the process, it's abusing it.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
The correct "civil seizure" process was followed.
Keep telling that to yourself. Might become true!
Still, you didn't reply me. Would you like to spend 24h being redirected to an official notice telling others you are a pedophile?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
Your level of dense stupidity is really incredible sometimes.
Here are THE FACTS: (1) domain was seized. (2) DOJ had 60 days to notify, followed by 35 days for domain owner to ask for it back... at which point DOJ has 90 days to either return or file for forfeiture. That means a MAXIMUM of 185 days in which one of 2 things MUST HAPPEN: domain goes back or forfeiture is filed. (3) Neither thing happened in 185 days.
None of that is "hearsay." The domain was returned after 380+ days. There's 200+ days in there that's pure denial of due process and you know it or you're totally full of shit yet again.
I have to say, you've gotten worse over the years. You used to sign your name and you used to have intelligent things to say. Now you're just purely full of shit, purely in support of anything that goes against what we say.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
Courts issue order all the time, and parties effected by such orders file motions challenging the orders. What makes Dajaz1 any different since the same procedural rules of law apply?
All you know is what is attributed to its attorney in a news article (i.e., hearsay). News is informative, but it is not necessarily definitive about what actually transpired. You seem inclined to accept the information in the news article as the gospel truth. I tend to be more circumspect, and particularly when it involves judicial matters.
You have many intelligent things to say, but in this matter there is a logic fail that falls short of the mark.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Dear gods, why are you being so obtuse about this?
Everytime Dajaz1 tried to see the court order or figure out when the hearing would be, ICE stone walled them. And here you are, supporting the 1 year censorship of a blog that had authorized links on it.
You're still full of it.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
In the case of this specific website it seems to me that far too many are unquestioningly accepting what was contained in the news article. Perhaps I am mistaken, but experience suggests to me that there is much more to this story than simply "they kept me in the dark".
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
How you can't figure this out, I have no idea.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
If I am wrong then the data allegedly in the hands of Mr. Masnick may very well prove this to be the case.
Perhaps he will be kind enough to provide it as I have asked.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Ok. Let's try this again, for those who can't comprehend basic math:
1. USG secured a court order which had specific rules to it.
2. Among those rules: if the property owners requests return of the property, that property MUST be returned within a 185 days or a case for forfeiture must be filed.
3. Neither of those things happened.
Due process was absolutely denied. And since this involved a blog with tons of non-infringing speech, it was clearly censorship as well. This isn't even debatable at this point.
My question is "Did Dajaz1, through its counsel, go to the court that issued the order and request that the seized property be returned?" Nowhere is this question answered, and it is a pretty important one at that.
You've asked this question at least 4 times, and I've answered it each and every time. Why you continue to pretend it hasn't been answered is something that perhaps only you understand.
dajaz1 followed the exact procedure prescribed under the seizure and forfeiture law. You know who did not? The USG.
Courts issue order all the time, and parties effected by such orders file motions challenging the orders. What makes Dajaz1 any different since the same procedural rules of law apply?
Must we do this again. DO THE MATH. Dajaz1 did exactly what the procedures state -- and under that law one of two things HAD to happen by day 185: domain returned or forfeiture begun. Which one of those two things happened? That's right! Neither.
Look, dude, just admit that you're totally full of shit. It would make life easier for everyone.
All you know is what is attributed to its attorney in a news article (i.e., hearsay).
False. I know the gov't had 185 days to return the domain. I have confirmation FROM ICE & confirmed by a US Senator, that Dajaz1 followed the proper procedure for asking for the domain to be returned -- at which point it NEEDED to be returned by 185 days, or forfeiture procedures begun. I also know -- CONFIRMED BY DOJ -- that no such procedure was started, and the domain was not returned for over 380 days.
Care to admit that you are FULL OF SHIT yet?
I have spoken to tons of people related to this case, including representatives of the US government. What I know is not hearsay. What I know is you are full of shit. Yet, in your desperation to believe that the government didn't totally fuck up here, you have put such incredible blinders on that you look like a ridiculous and completely clueless moron.
No wonder you don't put your name on shit any more.
You seem inclined to accept the information in the news article as the gospel truth
No. I know what happened.
Want to admit that you are completely full of shit yet?
You have many intelligent things to say, but in this matter there is a logic fail that falls short of the mark.
You would make me laugh if you weren't so completely full of shit.
Seriously: you're so completely wrong on this it's not even funny. Stop digging. Admit that you are 100% completely full of shit and let's move on. If you choose not to do so, please be aware that I will highlight your full of shitness at every opportunity from here on in. Because, honestly, I can handle the lobbyists and whatnot who speak here and say ridiculous stuff. They're just kind of funny. But you come here every day -- with the most pretentious attitude while still being so totally full of shit. You never back up your statements. You just say stupid shit like "it might help to read the bill." Yet when called to respond to those who actually quote the language, you chicken out.
Because you are full of shit.
Same thing here. You insist it wasn't censored and due process was followed. You are wrong.
You insist my statements are based on hearsay from an article. You are wrong.
You are full of shit.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
There is one thing at this point in time that is crystal clear. No one has come forward with anything showing that counsel for Dajaz1 went into court and requested that the property be returned. Counsel is quoted as saying the USG was requested to return the property. Ok, by what instrument was this done? A phone call? An email? A letter? An office visit? Other?
In the ordinary course of legal matters associated with a court order, a request would be in the form of a motion filed with the court that issued the order. Surely counsel entered an appearance before the court on behalf of his client and has a copy of such a filing. The seizure request having been filed with the Federal District Court for the Central District of California (basically L.A.), I would expect that any relevant court documents reside there.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
We've explained this to you. Four times now. I can't believe you want to go through this again.
Are you honestly that stupid?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
I take my hat for your patience, Mike. Even though you were clearly at your limit in your last post lmao
Cheers man, let us ignore trollie troll next hahaha
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
You say you have data that backs up what you say. If so, then provide it. I am troubled by the lack of objective backup for the actions allegedly undertaken by counsel for Dajaz1.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
"The government told him no and that the papers were filed under seal and could not be released, even in redacted form."
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
You neatly summed up your posting style. Except for the intelligent part, of course.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Sorry, but most normal thinking people consider having a blog taken down for over a year on bogus charges, and then denying them their day in court with secret "extensions" they were never allowed to see and in contradiction with the law under which the domain was seized both censorship and a denial of due process.
We know that you like this kind of censorship, but that doesn't make it any less censorship or denial of due process.
Seriously: standing up for ICE against Dajaz1 is beyond the pale. It's disgusting.
Deportation: Perhaps people should provide their real name.
No, perhaps ICE should do some freaking research. Your willingness to defer to law enforcement because their law enforcement is also disgusting.
GAO: To be accurate, what the GAO did say was that the economic effect could not be quantified. It did not say the data was "false" or that it was "true".
There are tons of studies that claim job losses. GAO could not find a SINGLE credible one. That tells you all you need to know.
84,000 sites: IIRC, rectified within about 24 hours.
48 hours, actually, but I'm not sure how that's any better.
PSA: So what? Perhaps they should have simply had some for hire ad agency create the same thing. Would that make you happy?
Yes. I don't think that the government should be running inaccurate propaganda created and owned by corporations -- especially without disclosing this fact.
PSA licensed: Tempest in a teapot.
Potentially. But kinda gets to the point. It's not always so easy to know, is it?
Does anyone seriously believe it was used without the consent of the author?
No. But I also don't believe Dajaz1 posted works without authorization (and I've seen the actual evidence there), but it didn't stop ICE from censoring them for over a year.
That's the point. Which apparently is so far above your head that you can't see it.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
You're such a lying, slimy sociopath, Masnick.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
Until Dajaz1.com has a fair and open trial, it is completely innocent. At least, that's what should have happened. It should have had its day in court before being blocked for over a year, but instead, it was blocked and its own lawyer never received any information about the secret seizure extension orders. That is a complete denial of due process.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
Of course, if I am wrong, the drugs did more damage then we thought, since DaJaz1 was returned with no charges filed.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
Really? How come the four instances DOJ/ICE used in it's affidavit were all sent to them by the artist, the label or their agent? You'd think if there was "thousands of links to infringing material" it should have been easy as pie to find actual infringing material, but that didn't happen did it?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
> piracy apologism here; like GOOGLE for instance- a
> website that had thousands of links to infringing material.
ftfy
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Although to be fair I did manage to read the next point where you claim that saying "it cannot be quantified" is in no way the same thing as saying that previous claims of quantification were false even though that's logically impossible.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Their domain was seized for a year.
"...nor due process denied..."
Their domain was seized for a year with no warrant, no chance to challenge the action, and no charges filed.
"Deportation: Perhaps people should provide their real name."
Perhaps our law enforcement people should be required to check facts. Apparently you feel that we should deport anybody we don't like, on a whim, without due process. Oh right, you don't understand what due process is.
PSA: it's a sign of blatant hypocrisy.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
So seized with no trial, hearing, etc... for 1 year and then returned means what?
"Deportation: Perhaps people should provide their real name."
Perhaps ICE should add two and two before deporting minors to third world countries.
"GAO: To be accurate, what the GAO did say was that the economic effect could not be quantified. It did not say the data was "false" or that it was "true"."
So they said that some data someone else asserts every chance the get was produced using flawed methodology and the values are unquantifiable, but they didn't call it false? That analogous to you saying "the world was created by a slug" and I reply "well, there's no way to know that and no supporting evidence" and you assert that I didn't call your slug statement bullshit.
"84,000 sites: IIRC, rectified within about 24 hours."
So they only infringed huge amounts of speech for a day? Awesome, I feel so much better.
"PSA: So what? Perhaps they should have simply had some for hire ad agency create the same thing. Would that make you happy?"
This is so intellectually dishonest as to be almost laughable. I'll restate the obvious just so it's here for the unfortunate googler. The point of the discussion around those PSA's is that they are incredibly one-sided, inaccurate ads produced by a corporation and presented as though created by the gov't. Further, given that the PSA's wax with moralistic falsities about copyright infringement, the ambiguity of them being licensed is ironic to say the least, and belies the complexities of trying to navigate arcane copyright rules in this modern age.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
I assume that you have verifiable sources that show that official due process was followed every steop of the way, and which you can post here?
Deportation: Perhaps people should provide their real name.
So you believe that it's perfectly fine for a government agency to endanger someone's life, based on the word of an underage girl, without doing any further checking? Perhaps you should be held accountable for everything said by every "Anonymous Coward" on the net...
84,000 sites: IIRC, rectified within about 24 hours.
So you wouldn't mind if I stuck a banner on your home saying "A Child Molester lives here!" for 24 hours?
PSA licensed: Tempest in a teapot. Does anyone seriously believe it was used without the consent of the author? BTW, under federal law it could have been used even if author screamed "foul" at the top of his/her lungs. See: 28 USC 1498. I follow litigation associated with this section of law quite closely, and no suit for recompense by the author of the PSA has been filed with the Federal Court of Claims. I find this rather telling.
Sure, why should anyone care if ICE follows the same laws it claims to be upholding? After all, the government is above the law, right?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
ICE ICE BABY
I can't say I know much about counterfeit goods, beyond the rare adverts for "replica" products through my door (at least they are honest). I do know though that many women buy replica handbags because they cannot afford the originals. So little gain for the original sales by stopping the fakes.
I have a better idea about their doggy drugs when other poorer countries produce their own versions instead of paying the owner some super high change. So cheaper medicine floods the poorer country and then some bright spark gets the idea to export them for profit. Now I am not saying that their are not some totally fake drugs around but the vast majority are simply patent enforcement. They are lawful in the poorer country but not outside it.
What I find most interesting is that in this video one section reads "Piracy Doesn't Work". That is a totally wrong statement seeing how since 2003 piracy has helped to totally reshape the markets. Years ago there were many delays to maximise profit but now DVD/Bluray sales, and lawful on-line screening, can quickly following the cinema release. So piracy and 3D are the two biggest causes of market progressions since 2003.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Steal for Free
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Steal for Free
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Steal for Free
Unless you are counting the cost of paying for internet I call Horseshit.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
ICE Director John Morton
Now there is your real "counterfeit" product, John. I expect you to not do something about that, because then your overseers would be angry with you. No, not the American people, who you claim to serve, but your "company" masters. Now go back under the rock you crawled out from under, and never speak to us again.
I'm sure we'll end up hearing about him eventually working for some MPAA / RIAA type outfit after his "Public Service" job is over like many other so-called "government" servants.
/end rant
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
How Does Protecting Foreign Companies Help America?
For example, early in the clip they show a website selling presumably-counterfeit Manolo Blahnik shoes, a Spanish designer that has its headquarters in the UK.
Then in another clip there is a news clip talking about counterfeit Louis Vuitton handbags, but that's a French company.
I doubt any of these foreign companies manufactured products in America, ever, so the only American jobs involved in their distribution and sale are the guys unloading freighters, driving trucks, and manning cash registers, and Americans can still do that whether they are selling counterfeits or knock-offs.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: How Does Protecting Foreign Companies Help America?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: How Does Protecting Foreign Companies Help America?
Curiously all of this is happening to web companies.
Then again, everyone knows that if you SERIOUSLY want to infringe just watch usenet places like, oh, say alt.sex.fetish.copyright.sopasucks.whileweinfringeaway
but that's not the Web so they don't notice.
By that way as far as I know no such usenet group exists. Well, it may shortly after I hit the enter key here but to a bundle of AC's we're all about IP theft anyway.
And, no, protecting foreign companies does little to help America or Canada. But the big fashion guys who can fill campaign warchests are all European anyway. It's da money again.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: How Does Protecting Foreign Companies Help America?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
commenting disabled?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
/sarc off
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
mirror that shit
It will be interesting to see how long it takes for the DMCA axe to fall. It'll also be interesting to see if it's actually the content owner doing the swinging.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: mirror that shit
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: mirror that shit
That said, i would assume they'd be quick with the axe if they felt that the truth harmed their policy campaign(s).
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
pffft what a crock
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
pfft
Yeah, fact this... Whatever.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
ICE & WHAT EVER TENDS 2 B FREEDOM
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
It is completely ignoring how the makers of the original things also rely on sweatshops anywhere they can lobby for weaker worker protection laws.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
The Loophole
That loophole happens to be that these Governmental departments can hire another company to make the video for them and it is that company which holds the copyright... even if your taxes paid for the entire production!
I would term that "theft" myself.
Now since ICE are rather slippery and have a history of avoiding accountability then what do you think they did? Proof is in the rip and reupload when I expect that copy to soon DMCA vanish.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
"After initially ignoring requests from DaJaz1 lawyer Andrew P. Bridges to return the domain, the U.S. government indicated it would begin the necessary forfeiture procedure. Bridges said he would submit a forfeiture challenge, but the deadline for the government to file apparently came and went with no visible action."
My comments are based upon the fact that "requests" is nowhere defined in either this or the wealth of other articles that discuss this matter. In a civil matter (in this case a judicial seizure, as opposed to a nonjudicial seizure) counsel for a defendant files an appearance before a court and files a motion with the court to either modify or dismiss the order. Is this what counsel did, or did he use extra-judicial means? "Requests" provides no clue since it can mean many things.
The comment attributed to counsel that he would wait until a forfeiture action was instituted seems a bit off the mark. It is counter-intuitive to simply bypass the opportunity to force the government's hand at the earliest possible opportunity, i.e., when the seizure was made, than to enter the fray at a later date. The former provides counsel in real time important information and the opportunity to truncate further proceedings immediately. The latter provides the government leeway to delay the institution of a forfeiture action by petition to the court.
It is on this basis that I have asked for clarification, and to be met with derisive comments instead of an attempt to try and answer a question posed in good faith does nothing to further an understanding of what was actually happening. Importantly, as an attorney I look at matters before a court in the context of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure and the provisions of federal statutes. I do not look at them in the context of a news article that provide no more than top-level, general comments that are not documented elsewhere.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Oh, and now that they've closed down every single US-based incandescent light bulb factory, now they've changed their minds and made them legal again.
Sorry, off-topic, I know, but it still bugged me =-P
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
sadly youtube didn't give me a space to explain my reasoning
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Ice video, with comments!
I hope it will bring attention to ICE and let them know what real people think about this stupid, highly misleading video.
Please also remember, I reposted so people could let their feelings be known, not because I believe their message, so feel free to shoot ICE, not me.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Video with comments
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tLPoj9FVfs
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Video with comments
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
ICE IDIOT
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
WUT
And let's not be kidding ourselves. A shirt is a shirt. I've bought awesome T-shirts at 10$, and even stronger ones at 50.
Plus the official seal of approval is nothing more than "so, uh, boss..." -> "yeah sure whatever stick my head on a T-shirt and call it official".
[ link to this | view in chronology ]