Lamar Smith & MPAA Brush Off Wikipedia Blackout As Just A Publicity Stunt

from the we'll-see-tomorrow dept

Tue, Jan 17th 2012 1:49pm — Mike Masnick

Well, well. It appears that Lamar Smith really wants to tempt fate and stick his tongue out at the internet. Beyond announcing that he's moving forward with SOPA, he's also continuing to mock the critics, calling the Wikipedia blackout a "publicity stunt":

“It is ironic that a website dedicated to providing information is spreading misinformation about the Stop Online Piracy Act," Smith said in a statement on Tuesday. "The bill will not harm Wikipedia, domestic blogs or social networking sites. This publicity stunt does a disservice to its users by promoting fear instead of facts. Perhaps during the blackout, Internet users can look elsewhere for an accurate definition of online piracy."

Smith, as per pretty much all of his statements on SOPA is either misinformed, disingenuous... or just lying. First of all, the anti-circumvention provisions certainly do apply to domestic sites, including Wikipedia. And as a site that provides information, it could certainly run afoul of those provisions. But, more to the point, Wikipedia isn't just speaking out because this bill impacts Wikipedia directly, but because of its wider concern over what this bill represents: a blacklist that seeks to block access to websites. You can be secure that it won't impact you and still take issue with the principle behind the bill.

It's a shame that Lamar Smith can't understand that, despite so many people online understanding it. I assume some of those people may give Rep. Smith a call tomorrow to express that point to him directly.

Meanwhile... shocker of shockers, the MPAA is out with a statement using a very similar phrase concerning the blackouts. Gee, kinda makes you wonder if Lamar Smith and the MPAA are consulting on talking points:

It is an irresponsible response and a disservice to people who rely on them for information use their services. It is also an abuse of power given the freedoms these companies enjoy in the marketplace today. It’s a dangerous and troubling development when the platforms that serve as gateways to information intentionally skew the facts to incite their users in order to further their corporate interests.

A so-called “blackout” is yet another gimmick, albeit a dangerous one, designed to punish elected and administration officials who are working diligently to protect American jobs from foreign criminals. It is our hope that the White House and the Congress will call on those who intend to stage this “blackout” to stop the hyperbole and PR stunts and engage in meaningful efforts to combat piracy.”

This is hilarious only in that we're talking about the MPAA here, who is famous for abusing its powers and "intentionally skewing the facts to incite" people (mainly in Congress) "in order to further their corporate interests." Seriously, who honestly thinks that Wikipedia, Reddit and others are shutting down their sites to "further their corporate interests?" The MPAA -- as per usual, remains totally, and completely tone deaf to what's going on.

The MPAA wants SOPA to further its corporate interests. Wikipedia is a non-profit. Its interest is in stopping the MPAA from mucking up the internet, not in "furthering its corporate interests." Once again, it would be nice if the MPAA and Lamar Smith had the decency to be honest on this issue, but they're still working by the old playbook... the one where you lie and donate to campaigns until Congress gives you the laws you want, no matter how unnecessary or damaging they may be. They're seriously underestimating what's been activated online over the past few months. It's a massive miscalculation to brush off these legitimate concerns as a publicity stunt.

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Filed Under: blackout, lamar smith, pipa, protect ip, publicity stunt, sopa, tone deaf
Companies: mpaa, wikipedia

221 Comments

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Chronno S. Trigger (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 1:52pm

I would like to point out that Lamar Smith & MPAA brushing off Wikipedia blackout as just a publicity stunt is in and of itself just a publicity stunt.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 1:53pm

I have to agree in that I think wikipedia is overplaying their hand here.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 1:59pm

Re:
I disagree, Wikipedia has already had some success with this. I have seen multiple mentions of SOPA watching mainstream news today thanks to threatening this shutdown. It also has historic precedent that it is effective, it worked quite well in Italy.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 1:59pm

Re:
You have to overplay your hand to combat people who are overplaying a thousand hands with money clenched in their fists.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
E. Zachary Knight (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 2:00pm

Re:
How? Their purpose is to provide readers with educational material on a variety of topics. Since this one topic needs to be shared more prominently with the public, why not do it?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Nastybutler77 (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 2:00pm

Menacing implication?
It is also an abuse of power given the freedoms these companies enjoy in the marketplace today.

Interesting choice of words there. It seems to imply that the freedoms they enjoy won't be there tomorrow.
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Spike (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 2:01pm

The internet is the only place for the most part that is actually reporting and protesting on this abortion of a bill. That's right, MPAA member companies news outlets are NOT reporting on it.

At the same time, the MPAA is using their 'creativeamerica' site to put full page ads in newspapers and such that spread propaganda supporting SOPA...
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Spike (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 2:03pm

As per my comment above, that fits the description of "abuse of power".
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Chris Rhodes (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 2:05pm

Clearly
Taking down the websites of others = Not abuse
Taking down your own website = Abuse

/MPAA_insane_troll_logic
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Mike42 (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 2:07pm

Flashbacks...
I am constantly reminded of the tobacco industrie's claims that smoking cigarettes doesn't cause cancer. They bought a few congress-critters who were equally absurd as Lamar.
I'd also love to know what "corporate interests" Wikipedia is supposed to be protecting with the blackout.
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jupiterkansas (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 2:07pm

Abuse of power! OMG the hypocrisy knows no bounds.
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Michael, 17 Jan 2012 @ 2:08pm

Oh, really?
"It is an irresponsible response and a disservice to people who rely on them for information use their services. It is also an abuse of power given the freedoms these companies enjoy in the marketplace today."

Funny, this coming from a mafia-run organization which bribes Senators and Congressmen into stifling free speech by granting them unchecked authority to effectively shut down websites at a whim. Oh, and as for being a "disservice," they're not ones to talk, seeing as how they tried not so long ago to permanently strip music artists of the rights to their own work.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 2:08pm

Lame Ar
Ole lame ar (lamar) will start attacking all that oppose him. Thats what he is payed to do. Hold off all opposition and pass this thing. What do you do want you can't intellectually defend your position? Stick out your tongue and start mocking your critics.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 2:12pm

Re:
Yeah, it's tough to grow a spine and actually make a stand to defend what you think is right. That's why we post as AC, right?
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:Lobo Santo (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 2:14pm

Re: Lame Arse
ftfy
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Kevin H (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 2:14pm

"It is an irresponsible response and a disservice to people who rely on them for information use their services. It is also an abuse of power given the freedoms these companies enjoy in the marketplace today. It�s a dangerous and troubling development when the platforms that serve as gateways to information intentionally skew the facts to incite their users in order to further their corporate interests."

Pot calling kettle. Come in Kettle....
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Malibu Cusser (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 2:15pm

Fixed that for ya...
It is an irresponsible response and a disservice to people who used to rely on them for entertainment. It is also an abuse of power given the monopolies these companies enjoy in the marketplace today. It�s a dangerous and troubling development when the platforms that used to serve as gateways to entertainment intentionally skew the facts to incite their lawmakers in order to further their corporate interests.

A so-called "necessary law" is yet another gimmick, albeit a dangerous one, designed to punish American jobs creators. It is our hope that the White House and the Congress will call on those who intend to pass this "law" to stop the hyperbole and PR stunts and engage in meaningful efforts to combat copyright infringement.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
John Doe, 17 Jan 2012 @ 2:16pm

TFTFY...
The bill will harm non-domestic blogs and social networking sites.

This is how I read his statement. Now we all know it will harm US websites tremendously as well, but foreign nations better start worrying about what the US is going to do to their internet business.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 2:18pm

you think a cockstar like lamar smith understands legislation a loybist writes for him to sponsor?
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 2:20pm

That's strange, I thought Lamar Smiths position on Sopa was a publicity stunt to get him more funding for his re-election campaign.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 2:20pm

Re: Lame Ar
Nice use of that pun. But yes, he is trying to tease and dismiss the whole deal...but internet won't loose so easily.
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Chosen Reject (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 2:20pm

Re: TFTFY...
It's like a trifecta. Hollywood gets to shut down any new competitors at a whim, the US government gets their foot in the door for censorship, and Hollywood/US government attempts to make all new content come from US companies doing harm to foreign economies thinking they'll help the US economy. There's nothing get about these bills.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 2:21pm

Re:
Not the only one doing so. Comment in the article that Wikipedia "could" run into a problem appears intended to create yet another panic that does not track the acutal language of the bills. "Knowingly and wilfully" is not in there simply to increase the bill's word count.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Michael, 17 Jan 2012 @ 2:23pm

Re: TFTFY...
Reason being they don't want to compete in an open market where one can purchase foreign products outside of domestic corporations' control, which is ironic given how much of 'our' products are outsourced to begin with.
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ShellMG, 17 Jan 2012 @ 2:23pm

Re: Re:
Unfortunately most of the media will play outrage against SOPA/PIPA as "pro piracy" people and thieves. NBCUniversal supports it, so dos FOX's Rupert Murdoch, and I'm sure other media heads are staying silent to let others take the heat.

There is no way the MPAA/RIAA is going to let this go.
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weneedhelp (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 2:23pm

It is ironic that a website dedicated to providing information is spreading misinformation about the Stop Online Piracy Act
Anger level 10. Someone just kick this guys teeth in. Really. What would you get a year and some probation?

"misinformed, disingenuous... or just lying"
misinformed? Mike you are a nice guy aren't you?
disingenuous? see sentence above.
lying? Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding!!!!!!!! WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!!!
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 2:24pm

Re: Re:
Is Wales going to suggest an alternative or just protest any piracy legislation that is introduced?
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 2:26pm

Re:
I could have sworn he considered SOPA as some conspiracy to teach the tech industry, along with the masses who support the internet, the power that they have when they are working together for a common and just goal.

Because if that was his intention, it is working pretty damn well.
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anonymous, 17 Jan 2012 @ 2:26pm

a good protest would be to shut down the websites of all the entertainment industries. give them a taste of what will happen if the Bills pass. anyone think of a 'take down' request that could be used? i wonder what the reaction would be if that happened?
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gorehound (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 2:28pm

Re:
Thanks to the wikipedia stunt they mentioned the PIPA/SOPA for the first time in the whole state of maine.go ahead and do a search on the portland press herald and see how many times they said anything.
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Gwiz (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 2:29pm

A so-called �blackout� is yet another gimmick, albeit a dangerous one, designed to punish elected and administration officials who are working diligently to protect American jobs from foreign criminals.

Wait. How are groups of concerned citizens and companies vocally opposing proposed legislation punishing anybody? That is downright stupid.

Elected officials are supposed represent the people.
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Richard (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 2:32pm

Furthering interests
Seriously, who honestly thinks that Wikipedia, Reddit and others are shutting down their sites to "further their corporate interests?"

I can clearly see that shutting down your own site is furthering your own corporate interests, just like not offering movies for rental for 2 months after release for sale is furthering their own corporate interests, the similarities are there.
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Robert (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 2:32pm

Fine, I'll Do It!!!
Let's take up donations, all $$ go to Lamar Smith to buy him back (and I'm a Canadian).

Shall I setup a PayPal account? Perhaps call it BuyBackOurPoliticians@PayPay.com?
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Beta (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 2:37pm

like the fourth dimension
"You can be secure that it won't impact you and still take issue with the principle behind the bill... It's a shame that Lamar Smith can't understand that..."

I think you've just underlined a vital element of Representative Smith's character. The idea of standing up for other people's rights is simply alien to him; he can talk about it with some effort, but it doesn't occur to him naturally, and he can't really see it.
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Leonidas, 17 Jan 2012 @ 2:37pm

[i]"A so-called �blackout� is yet another gimmick, albeit a dangerous one, designed to punish elected and administration officials who are working diligently to protect American jobs from foreign criminals. It is our hope that the White House and the Congress will call on those who intend to stage this �blackout� to stop the hyperbole and PR stunts and engage in meaningful efforts to combat piracy.�[\i]

That's like saying The Million Man March of the civil rights movement was only a small parade designed to spread misinformation and provide a hyperbole like response to a minor issue of the day...
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Ukko, 17 Jan 2012 @ 2:39pm

Lamar Smith is the MPAA's catamite. He'll refuse to back down no matter what because he's afraid of losing his industry-paid NAMBLA membership. The only way to defeat SOPA is to keep up the pressure until enough of his colleagues listen.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 2:45pm

Re: Re: Re:
Piracy legislation? Where? SOPA isn't "piracy legislation". Heck, The Pirate Bay won't even be affected by it, and The Pirate Bay is well known for being the biggest piracy site on the planet.
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Atkray (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 2:46pm

Re: Fine, I'll Do It!!!
Actually that is a really good idea. Have a place where people (not corporation people) can donate and the money is split up amongst all the congressmen that sign on to not accepting any lobbying bribes/gifts.
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Capitalist Lion Tamer (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 2:46pm

Re: Re: Re:
I'm sorry, what? He runs an online free encyclopedia. At what point does that obligate him to suggest legislation to benefit unrelated industries?

Here's an idea: why doesn't one of the -AA's crowdsource some ideas for fighting piracy via an open system like Wales'? Maybe they could whip up some sort of IP Protection wiki or the like instead of bitching about how a bunch of "piracy apologists" are ruining their pet legislation.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 2:51pm

Lamar is either dishonest or stupid.

How can anybody say that a law that targets things that are outside their jurisdiciton will not affect locals?

The simple answer is that he is at best being stupid or at worst lying through his teeth, because the mechanism that will be used is to beat local business to do something that otherwise they wouldn't.

No matter how he tries to dress that pile of shite, it is a law designed to harm local business so they comply with orders from other people.

SOPA tries to force others to cooperate with a tiny fraction of the entire market for the benefit of that few at the expense of everybody else inside that system.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 2:54pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
"Here's an idea: why doesn't one of the -AA's crowdsource some ideas for fighting piracy via an open system like Wales'? Maybe they could whip up some sort of IP Protection wiki or the like instead of bitching about how a bunch of "piracy apologists" are ruining their pet legislation."

That would require actual work. The coolest thing about this so called "anti-piracy legislation" is that it forces everyone else to enforce "your" rights, at no expense for "you".

That's what we call a Win-Win situation. Because "you" Win...twice!
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Capitalist Lion Tamer (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 2:58pm

Re:
Lamar is either dishonest or stupid.

He can easily be both. In fact, I think he's proved as much over the past several weeks and, if this is any indication, he ain't done yet.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 2:58pm

When the MPAA/RIAA astroturfs in support of its own viewpoint on a bill, it's democracy in action. When the bills' opponents inform their own users of their viewpoints on a bill, it's irresponsible, dangerous, and troubling. The old guard appears envious that it no longer has the ears of the people. That's what happens when you stagnate your industry into communicative irrelevance and do nothing to engender goodwill among the public. Cry me a river.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 3:01pm

Re:
Don't you understand? Any time you oppose a politician for failing to represent your views, you are punishing elected officials. And that's just wrong. Since when has democracy been about allowing people to organize in protest of government action?
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ShellMG, 17 Jan 2012 @ 3:03pm

Re: It is ironic that a website dedicated to providing information is spreading misinformation about the Stop Online Piracy Act
They're doing more than just that -- by NOT reporting.

If you read stories most media outlets are posting there's absolutely NO mention of the DNS issue. It's all piracy buzzwords about activists, lost revenue, "billions and billions" (sorry, Carl) in money, and so on.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 3:05pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
I'm sorry, what? He runs an online free encyclopedia.

Which he has decided to politicize. Everyone knows SOPA wouldn't have any effect on Wikipedia, so if Wales is going to get into the lobbying business, shouldn't he offer alternatives?
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 3:08pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Well he is the alternative, he gives things for free and it is able some how to survive in that market and wait for it...thrive despite all odds.

Wikipedia is not alone, open source has showed everybody that you can give away your "product" and make millions.

So why again is there talk about censorship tools needed to protect something when it has been proven beyond a doubt that such tools are not needed?
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 3:09pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Here's an alternative: Burn SOPA. Start over.

SOPA has been shown to be harmful, and ineffective towards it's stated goal.

Do you really want to pass a law that will rob you of your rights, while giving nothing in return?
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MrWilson, 17 Jan 2012 @ 3:09pm

Translation:

Lamar Smith: "Wikipedia should shut up because we haven't come for them yet!"

First they came for "foreign websites dedicated to infringement..."
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 3:09pm

I like Lamar Smith, it takes a special kind of crazy to walk up to reality, look it in the eyes and say "Nope, i'm not buying it".
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Capitalist Lion Tamer (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 3:10pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
The hell does "lobbying" have to do with "offering alternatives?" Lobbying is done to aim legislation in a favorable direction. If anything (by your definition), Wales should be lobbying to ensure that nothing like SOPA/PIPA ever makes it into committee, much less out of it.

Everyone knows SOPA wouldn't have any effect on Wikipedia

This "everyone" you speak of must be the same "no one" that is protesting against SOPA. They're both fictional constructs used by shilling entities to hastily shore up their leaky arguments.
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Jay (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 3:11pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
What the hell is with this argument that people always need to have an alternative?

This isn't binary code.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 3:11pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Your response is the typical response of people who don't want to deal with the real issues.

There are no alternatives simply because there is no need for any, there is not a problem to be solved and the people saying that "piracy" is a real problem are the real problem, trying to make fantasy reality.
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DCX2, 17 Jan 2012 @ 3:11pm

First they came...
First they came for "rogue sites". And I did not speak up, because I did not own a "rogue site".
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 3:14pm

Re: Re:
Are you God?
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 3:17pm

Re: Re:
I don't think it is working the way he wanted though.

Nobody inside the US respects copyright including house representatives and nobody in the world do also.

Even in China, measures trying to contain the internet fail miserably, those news about the train that crashed and killed a lot of people came first from Meibos not the government controlled media and sparked the fury of millions of Chinese and they do there what everybody else in the world already does, and that is replicate content ad infinitum faster than authorities can take it down.
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Someantimalwareguy (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 3:17pm

Re:
Pot calling kettle. Come in Kettle....
Kettle to pot...please leave me alone...
[ link to this | view in thread ]
RonKaminsky (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 3:20pm

Re: Re:
It frankly doesn't matter at all that those words, or any others, are in the bill, as long as the private interests which this bill empowers get to decide whether the words of the bill apply to a website, without judicial oversight controlling the immediate consequences.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 3:21pm

Re:
No a better protest would be to merge micro-webservers with Bittorrent clients and replicated the Pirate Bay over every computer in the world.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
The eejit (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 3:23pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
For Lamar, it might as well be: he'll still have a job by the end of it.
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Capitalist Lion Tamer (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 3:23pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
What the hell is with this argument that people always need to have an alternative?

Not only that, but why are the alternatives constantly dismissed? If I protest the death sentence, no one suggests I come up with an "alternative" deterrent. They simply accept the fact that I mean that the death penalty should be done away with. They don't insist that I find another way to punish murderers.

So why is it that anti-piracy apologists insist that we come up with "alternative" ideas to help them reach their goals? Isn't our statement of "SOPA is bad" enough? Shouldn't that indicate that we mean "don't craft any more 'anti-piracy' legislation"? Why are we tasked with solving their problem, one that arguably would be better off ignored, with the time, attention and money being thrown at obtaining and retaining customers?
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 3:24pm

Lets defeat SOPA once in for all.
Call for all coders to start a race to develop a distribute P2P fileshare system that has and embedded webserver that replicates the Pirate Bay in every computer installed, it only takes 5Gigabytes.

That way they be forced to sue normal people again and that will bring them right back where they started.

Not to mention it will show everybody why those laws are bad.
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The eejit (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 3:25pm

Re: Re:
OR, you can kill them a with the Ace of Spades.
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Plumbum, 17 Jan 2012 @ 3:26pm

Re: Re:
Over here (England) the wording is that they're shutting down to protest against anti-piracy laws, making it seem cut-and-dry and that Wikimedia are villains.

GG, BBC.
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The eejit (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 3:27pm

Re: Re:
Are you psychic?

Because if not, thopse three words can be weaselled into and out of faster than you can say "SOPAdope".

And those words were in the DMCA, as well. And the Patriot Act. And NDAA. Those words mean less than nothing in vague legislation - either actually target the issue or don't touch it at all.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 3:27pm

Re: Re: Re:
Perhaps you would be so kind as to direct me to the location in the bill where an extra-judicial right of action is conferred.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 3:30pm

Re:
People didn't know you could embed a webserver on an application?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_lightweight_web_servers

Lets call it #Operation Clone Wars.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 3:36pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Feel free to point out the exact language in the bill that would affect Wikipedia. The exact language.

Good luck with that.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 3:37pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
hahahahahahahaha
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 3:38pm

SOPA we will threaten local business so they do the right thing which is censor the internet and that will affect the people who live in other countries.

Is like saying, we will beat you guys over here and the other guy over there will feel it all, but don't worry you want be affected only that guy over there that we can't reach will feel the pain.
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Aaron *Head* Moss (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 3:39pm

Re:
I think Mythbusters' Adam Savage summed Lamar Smith's thoughts up best with his t-shirt:

I Reject Your Reality & Substitute My Own
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 3:43pm

Have anybody asked Lamar how threatning and beating local business will affect foreign business?

Are all search engines locate in the US? nope.
Are all financial institutions located in the US? nope.
Are all other countries onboard with this crazy stuff? nope.

How this will work? really, no seriously how this will work out?

Most probably American business will be undercut by global players, oh that will be just priceless.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 3:44pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Oh that is easy the whole bill.
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rubberpants, 17 Jan 2012 @ 3:45pm

They're Scared
The average person is about to learn about SOPA, and they're not going to like it. Regulating the Internet will become a toxic issue that no politician will want to champion. This is just one more example of how the Internet upsets the status quo, why the powerful are so eager to control it, and why they will fail.
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Capitalist Lion Tamer (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 3:45pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Did you even read the post?

First of all, the anti-circumvention provisions certainly do apply to domestic sites, including Wikipedia. And as a site that provides information, it could certainly run afoul of those provisions. But, more to the point, Wikipedia isn't just speaking out because this bill impacts Wikipedia directly, but because of its wider concern over what this bill represents: a blacklist that seeks to block access to websites. You can be secure that it won't impact you and still take issue with the principle behind the bill.

Just because there's no wording that states "and this means you, Wikipedia" does not mean that Wikipedia can't or won't be affected. Not only that, but this is a protest, showing solidarity for the internet as a whole. I'm not sure if you're familiar with the concept of being part of "something bigger than yourself." Not every player involved in this is self-interested. In fact, almost all the self-interest is contained in those pushing the legislation. There's not much of that on the other end with those trying to push back.
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Leonidas, 17 Jan 2012 @ 3:46pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
the owner or operator of such Internet site is committing or facilitating the commission of criminal violations punishable under section 2318, 2319, 2319A, 2319B, or 2320, or chapter 90, of title 18, United States Code;

Since Wikipedia relies on user submitted content, it could be viewed as facilitating the commission of criminal violations.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 3:47pm

"The police state uses everything to justify more police state."
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Almost Anonymous (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 3:56pm

Re: Menacing implication?
Very subtle, I didn't catch that, really good point.
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Almost Anonymous (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 3:59pm

Lamar has my respect
When that man is bought and paid for, he STAYS bought and paid for, no matter the truth or logic that is thrown his way.

Also, he's got balls the size of kumquats.
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Richard (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 3:59pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
When I read that the forced nature of your laugh came through loud and clear.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 4:00pm

I'm surprised Lamar Smith can even speak...
...given how full his mouth is, while he's down there on his knees servicing the MPAA/RIAA/etc.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 4:03pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
The is easy the entire bill would affect Wikipedia.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 4:06pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
See?

You can't come up with any language in the bill that would affect them.

Surprise, surprise.
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kyle clements (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 4:08pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Here's an idea: why doesn't one of the -AA's crowdsource some ideas for fighting piracy via an open system like Wales

What?
You expect big media to try profiting off of the hard work of other people, most of whom having no hope of ever being paid?
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 4:14pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
See, you had to selectively quote because you couldn't come up with an honest rebuttal.

Lets finish your quote:

"and (3) the Internet site would, by reason of acts described in paragraph (1), be subject to seizure in the United States in an action brought by the Attorney General if such site were a domestic Internet site.

So it's referring to a foreign site behaving in a manner that if it were a domestic site would result in law enforcement action.

So not only is it not referring to a US site like wikipedia, you also chose to lie by omission, leaving out the rest of the sentence.

Making you...

A liar.
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Chosen Reject (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 4:16pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
First they came for Napster, but I didn't speak up because I wasn't a pirate.

Then they came for Grokster and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a freetard.

Then they came for the Pirate Bay but I didn't speak up because I wasn't a foreigner.

Then they censored me but everyone who tried to speak up for me was already censored.
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Capitalist Lion Tamer (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 4:20pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
It's right below this comment.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 4:21pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
The only liar I see is you that can't even understand what you posted.

"by reason of acts described in paragraph (1)"

So anybody found to be helping them would be considered accomplices and have the privilege to endure the same faith as the foreign website.

How stupid are you?
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 4:25pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Well explain how would you touch something that you can't reach?

Are you saying no one will have "responsibilities" and can't be punished if they ignore the MPAA?

The whole point of the law is to force locals to stop doing something some people find it bad but can't prove it, never proved and never will prove it happens because it doesn't happen, that is why they need broad laws to encompass the "uncertainty" of the certain "harm" they claim.
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Anonymous Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 4:26pm

2552 News Articles about Blackout
As of about 4:22 Pacific Time there are 2552 news articles listed about the SOPA/PIPA blackout tomorrow. No, I have not read them all, but you know what they say: "Any publicity is good publicity".

It remains to be seen whether the pro SOPA/PIPA monopolists or the anti SOPA/PIPA let the market work factions will benefit the most.
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MahaliaShere (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 4:38pm

Smith is clearly upset that he won't be able to use Wikipedia tomorrow.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 4:38pm

POOP
I predict the next bill Lamar Smith introduces will be named Prevent Online Organizations from Protesting or POOP for short.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 4:44pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
No, you fucking idiot.

It means if this site wasn't hiding offshore and was residing in the US, it would be subject to seizure because it would be ILLEGAL.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 4:47pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Everyone knows SOPA wouldn't have any effect on Wikipedia...Sir, if everyone knows that, then why do you bother to mention it?
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 4:47pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Ok you want to go there right, so lets go there moron.

SEC. 101. DEFINITIONS.
(1) DOMAIN NAME- The term `domain name' has the meaning given that term in section 45 of the Lanham Act (15 U.S.C. 1127) and includes any subdomain designation using such domain name as part of an electronic address on the Internet to identify a unique online location.

(2) DOMAIN NAME SYSTEM SERVER- The term `domain name system server' means a server or other mechanism used to provide the Internet protocol address associated with a domain name.

(3) DOMESTIC DOMAIN NAME- The term `domestic domain name' means a domain name that is registered or assigned by a domain name registrar, domain name registry, or other domain name registration authority, that is located within a judicial district of the United States.

(4) DOMESTIC INTERNET PROTOCOL ADDRESS- The term `domestic Internet Protocol address' means an Internet Protocol address for which the corresponding Internet Protocol allocation entity is located within a judicial district of the United States.

(5) DOMESTIC INTERNET SITE- The term `domestic Internet site' means an Internet site for which the corresponding domain name or, if there is no domain name, the corresponding Internet Protocol address, is a domestic domain name or domestic Internet Protocol address.

(6) FOREIGN DOMAIN NAME- The term `foreign domain name' means a domain name that is not a domestic domain name.

(7) FOREIGN INTERNET PROTOCOL ADDRESS- The term `foreign Internet Protocol address' means an Internet Protocol address that is not a domestic Internet protocol address.

(8) FOREIGN INTERNET SITE- The term `foreign Internet site' means an Internet site that is not a domestic Internet site.

(9) INCLUDING- The term `including' means including, but not limited to.

According to the definitions of domestic and foreign, it is all about where it is registered, so if Wikipedia has a domain name registered outside the US that makes them foreign for the law.
Problems start at the begining of the fraking bill already.

Sources:
Open Congress: H.R.3261 - Stop Online Piracy Act
The Library of Congress: Bill Text
112th Congress (2011-2012) - H.R.3261.IH
US House Of Representatives - Committee On The Judiciary: Manager's
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 4:53pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Wikipedia also has a domain registered in the US and it isn't illegal is it, moron?

Who exactly do you think you're fooling with this nonsense?
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 4:54pm

Re:
They ignore any and all protests to push the law through, then threaten trade sanctions and whatnot to strongarm other countries' governments into implementing a local version against their (and their citizens') wishes.
Or they can just bully other countries into signing one-sided extradition treaties. Respecting other nations' sovereignties is not very high on the USA's todo list at the moment.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 4:56pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Ok you want to go there right, so lets go there moron.

(2) REASONABLE MEASURES- After being served with a copy of an order pursuant to this subsection, the following shall apply:

(A) SERVICE PROVIDERS-

(i) IN GENERAL- A service provider shall take technically feasible and reasonable measures designed to prevent access by its subscribers located within the United States to the foreign infringing site (or portion thereof) that is subject to the order, including measures designed to prevent the domain name of the foreign infringing site (or portion thereof) from resolving to that domain name's Internet Protocol address. Such actions shall be taken as expeditiously as possible, but in any case within 5 days after being served with a copy of the order, or within such time as the court may order.

Wikipedia is a service provider and will have to censor anything the government says it has too of face liability for it and they have 5 days to comply or else, oh that is just marvelous, so people don't have a way to refute anything, worse there is nothing in the bill that will even hint of sanctions for abuse of that power, there is no anti-abuse clause in there nowhere, so it will be abused just like the DMCA is being abused today.

Sources:
Open Congress: H.R.3261 - Stop Online Piracy Act
The Library of Congress: Bill Text
112th Congress (2011-2012) - H.R.3261.IH
US House Of Representatives - Committee On The Judiciary: Manager's
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bongo houzi (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 4:57pm

I was gonna tell the AC that uses personal attacks, bad form jack, but TechDirt beat me to it by pulling his post.

TD FTFY
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Capitalist Lion Tamer (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 4:59pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
You expect big media to try profiting off of the hard work of other people, most of whom having no hope of ever being paid?

You're right. What's surprising is that they haven't done this already.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 4:59pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Ok you want to go there right, so lets go there moron.

(C) PAYMENT NETWORK PROVIDERS-

(i) PREVENTING AFFILIATION- A payment network provider shall take technically feasible and reasonable measures, as expeditiously as possible, but in any case within 5 days after being served with a copy of the order, or within such time as the court may order, designed to prevent, prohibit, or suspend its service from completing payment transactions involving customers located within the United States or subject to the jurisdiction of the United States and the payment account--

(I) which is used by the foreign infringing site, or portion thereof, that is subject to the order; and

(II) through which the payment network provider would complete such payment transactions.

(ii) NO DUTY TO MONITOR- A payment network provider shall be considered to be in compliance with clause (i) if it takes action described in that clause with respect to accounts it has as of the date on which a copy of the order is served, or as of the date on which the order is amended under subsection (e).

If any part of Wikipedia is found to be accused of being part of a rouge website the government gets the power to shut it down and make payment systems close their accounts, oh that is nice, wikipedia.cn can be used to shutdown wikipedia.com fantastic.

Sources:
Open Congress: H.R.3261 - Stop Online Piracy Act
The Library of Congress: Bill Text
112th Congress (2011-2012) - H.R.3261.IH
US House Of Representatives - Committee On The Judiciary: Manager's
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Capitalist Lion Tamer (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 5:01pm

Re: Re: Re:
I'd pay to see Lemmy make a statement (on this legislation or any other, for that matter) on Capitol Hill.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 5:04pm

Re: Re: Re:
Why does there need to be an alternate? Piracy is not going to stop because of legislation, just like people aren't going to stop drinking if their's a alcohol prohibition.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 5:04pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Did you miss the part where it says "(a) Definition- For purposes of this section, a foreign Internet site or portion thereof is a `foreign infringing site' if--"

Just a part of it needs to infringe so they can and will be shutdown if that is what the AG wants and there will be no repercussions moron.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 5:05pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Wow, you are about as sharp as a bowling ball.

That text refers to ISPs.

It refers to foreign sites that a court has defined as dedicated to infringement.

And it's about DNS blocking, which isn't even in the bill anymore.

Absolutely nothing to do with Wikipedia.

You are one gigantic barrel of fail today, aren't you?
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 5:07pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
That is just for starters the whole thing is shite and should be entirely turn down.

Anybody that wants to read it can and they will reach the same conclusions, people don't need to be lawyers to see the problems they are so clear that no one is buying the BS Lamar is trying to push them to believe.

Sources:
Open Congress: H.R.3261 - Stop Online Piracy Act
The Library of Congress: Bill Text
112th Congress (2011-2012) - H.R.3261.IH
US House Of Representatives - Committee On The Judiciary: Manager's
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 5:07pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Once again, Wikipedia also has a domain registered in the US and it isn't illegal.

Once again, who exactly do you think you're fooling with this nonsense?
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Josh in CharlotteNC (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 5:08pm

Re: Re: Re:
suggest an alternative

Here's an alternative.

Your corporate overlords in the legacy industries can start offering compelling products and services that people want at prices customers are willing to pay.

Until then, stop corrupting our political process.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 5:09pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
People aren't going to stop murdering because there are murder laws. Why have murder laws?
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 5:12pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
It says right there in the proposal "parts thereof" it doesn't need to be the whole website it only needs to have one foreign component to apply to the entire entity or are you just so stupid you can see what that means?
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Modplan (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 5:14pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Considering the definition of foreign vs domestic is based solely on where the domain name is registered, there's nothing in SOPA that would protect Wikipedia simply because they have a US domain name, so long as they also have foreign domains registered, with no language in the bill that immunises those who own a multitude of domain names that would belong to various countries.

Domestic vs Foreign

The concept of 'domestic' versus 'foreign' on the internet is complex. For example, reddit's primary servers are located in Virginia, however we have domain names through foreign registrars (redd.it, reddit.co.uk). The site is hosted via a third-party content-delivery network (Akamai). This means that if you connect to reddit from a foreign country, you are likely connecting to an Akamai server not located in the U.S. This legislation naively ignores this complexity, and simply labels a site 'foreign' or 'domestic' based solely on the domain name.

The legislators sponsoring these bills have indicated that they are only targeted at truly foreign sites. However, the language is so loose and ignorant of what is truly a foreign site that there is a huge amount of room to argue what is actually "foreign".

Facilitation of criminal violations

The potential for abuse in this language is painfully obvious. "Facilitation" can often be argued as simply teaching or demonstrating how to do something. Under this definition, a site could be targeted for something as simple as describing how to rip a Blu-Ray. This language also makes it clear that the legislation is not solely targeting sites "dedicated to theft".
http://blog.reddit.com/2012/01/technical-examination-of-sopa-and.html
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 5:14pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Refers to ISP's being forced to censor anybody including Wikipedia at the whims of the government.

And who talked about DNS, they will have to do it in another way.

It has everything to do with Wikipedia, if any part of Wikipedia is accused of infringement it will force ISP to try and block it everywhere inside the US.
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Al Bert (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 5:15pm

Re: POOP
Thank you. I think we all needed a good poop joke. I know I did.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 5:19pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
That is easy, because everybody agrees murdering is something bad and we as a group don't want it, piracy on the other hand has only a few people who complain loudly and are hijacking the discussion and the implementation of sane laws.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 5:19pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Too bad this guy is lying. If this or any other US site is legal in the US, its foreign server is also legal in the US.
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TtfnJohn (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 5:20pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Tim O'Reilly already offered up the solutions. How many times does it have to be done?
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 5:22pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
And a post describing how to rip a blu-ray doesn't make it under the definition of a site dedicated to infringement.

This guy is nothing but a slimy liar.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 5:22pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Did courts decided what will constitute or not a foreign website already?

Oh your Honor I didn't know you was capable of seeing into the future and know what courts will decide already.

Only parts of it need to be infringing so if you take action against the Wikipedia foundation you are shuting down the entire Wikipedia not only the wikipedia.cn or wikipedia.co.uk, you are affecting the entire organization.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 5:24pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
(a) Definition- For purposes of this section, a foreign Internet site or portion thereof is a `foreign infringing site' if--

Only a portion of the website needs to be dedicated to infringement

What is the problem you can't read?

Portion means any piece of it, that its classified as illegal means the entirety can be shutdown.
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Anonymous 314159, 17 Jan 2012 @ 5:26pm

Re: Re: Re: Alternatives
You mean like this?
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 5:27pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
The only liar here is you.

or portion thereof is a `foreign infringing site'

A post is a portion of a website it doesn't need to be the entire website, where in the law it does state that it needs to be the entire website?

Because if that part exists there is a conflict of words in there.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 5:30pm

Re: Re:
They have a hard time pressuring China, even Australia to sign anything since almost 50% of Australia incomes comes from China due to the mineral exports, that is happening in other countries as well, Asia is becoming more important economically and the US doesn't have that much say anymore, bombs and armies will not win this, economics will and the US is going in the wrong direction.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 5:32pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Nope but we can put the small percentage of people who want to murder others in jail and keep them there, pirates on the other hand would mean free food, housing and healthcare to 30% of the population on the lower side of the calculations, are you going to pay for that?
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 5:33pm

Mr. Lamar Smith is a disgrace to every American.
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Jeffrey Nonken (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 5:34pm

Re:
Absolutely it's a publicity stunt. I mean, really, who has ever heard of Wikipedia? Just a few geeks. Nobody important.

And it's totally irresponsible for them to black out the site when all these people (the ones who have never heard of it?) depend on it so much.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 5:35pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
The definition of foreign is very clear in the law proposed, if it is registered outside the US then it is a foreign what part of that you didn't understand liar?
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TtfnJohn (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 5:38pm

Re:
As I recall a lot of people opposed to the march tried to portray it as exactly that at the time.

After all, things were getting better right?

Thing is, labeling this a gimmick is a way Smith hopes to minimize its effect. Pity it won't work. Free publicity is free publicity. Might even cause a small increase in traffic to Wikipedia in the morning just to see it. ;-)
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 5:39pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Is right there in the law saying only "portions" of it need to be infringing so what is this nonsense that it needs to be "wholesale"?

That is the biggest lie of all saying it needs to be entirely dedicated to infringement when in the law it is saying right there that only portions of it need to be considered "dedicated to infringement".

You are an idiot or a liar, maybe both.
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Killercool (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 5:44pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
In order:

Sect. 101(23) : U.S.-DIRECTED SITE- The term `U.S.-directed site' means an Internet site or portion thereof that is used to conduct business directed to residents of the United States, or that otherwise demonstrates the existence of minimum contacts sufficient for the exercise of personal jurisdiction over the owner or operator of the Internet site consistent with the Constitution of the United States, based on relevant evidence that may include whether--

(A) the Internet site is used to provide goods or services to users located in the United States;

(B) there is evidence that the Internet site or portion thereof is intended to offer or provide--

(i) such goods and services,

(ii) access to such goods and services, or

(iii) delivery of such goods and services,

to users located in the United States;

(C) the Internet site or portion thereof does not contain reasonable measures to prevent such goods and services from being obtained in or delivered to the United States; and

(D) any prices for goods and services are indicated or billed in the currency of the United States.

Sect. 103(a)(1): DEDICATED TO THEFT OF U.S. PROPERTY- An `Internet site is dedicated to theft of U.S. property' if--

(A) it is an Internet site, or a portion thereof, that is a U.S.-directed site and is used by users within the United States; and

(B) either--

(i) the U.S.-directed site is primarily designed or operated for the purpose of, has only limited purpose or use other than, or is marketed by its operator or another acting in concert with that operator for use in, offering goods or services in a manner that engages in, enables, or facilitates--

(I) a violation of section 501 of title 17, United States Code;

(II) a violation of section 1201 of title 17, United States Code; or

(III) the sale, distribution, or promotion of goods, services, or materials bearing a counterfeit mark, as that term is defined in section 34(d) of the Lanham Act or section 2320 of title 18, United States Code; or

(ii) the operator of the U.S.-directed site--

(I) is taking, or has taken, deliberate actions to avoid confirming a high probability of the use of the U.S.-directed site to carry out acts that constitute a violation of section 501 or 1201 of title 17, United States Code; or

(II) operates the U.S.-directed site with the object of promoting, or has promoted, its use to carry out acts that constitute a violation of section 501 or 1201 of title 17, United States Code, as shown by clear expression or other affirmative steps taken to foster infringement.

Sect. 104: IMMUNITY FOR TAKING VOLUNTARY ACTION AGAINST SITES DEDICATED TO THEFT OF U.S. PROPERTY.

No cause of action shall lie in any Federal or State court or administrative agency against, no person may rely in any claim or cause of action against, and no liability for damages to any person shall be granted against, a service provider, payment network provider, Internet advertising service, advertiser, Internet search engine, domain name registry, or domain name registrar for taking any action described in section 102(c)(2), section 103(d)(2), or section 103(b) with respect to an Internet site, or otherwise voluntarily blocking access to or ending financial affiliation with an Internet site, in the reasonable belief that--

(1) the Internet site is a foreign infringing site or is an Internet site dedicated to theft of U.S. property; and

(2) the action is consistent with the entity's terms of service or other contractual rights.

Translation:

Sect. 101(23) establishes a separate group of sites SOPA applies to: US-Directed sites. A site only has to be ACCESSIBLE in the US to qualify under this section. There are NO, I repeat, NO exceptions for sites that are based in the US.

Sect. 103(a)(1) defines a "Site Dedicated to Theft of US Property."

Sect. 104 COMPLETELY PREVENTS any legal redress for a site operator or anyone, for that matter, if the people who shut you down can say their belief was "reasonable." It also allows private action against "foreign infringing sites" OR any site "dedicated to theft of US property."

Taken together: ANY site accessible in the US can be shut down via extrajudicial, PRIVATE action, and NO legal action is possible if the parties responsible can prove their belief was "reasonable."
Wikipedia has many, many copyrighted images on their site. This law will completely apply to them. Especially since they "encourage" users to update pictures and wiki pages.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 5:45pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Now is your turn to show everybody where in the law it says it needs to be the whole website needs to be dedicated to infringement, because what is written there is that only portions of it needs to be dedicate to infringement to trigger sanctions.

Please point to the text showing your version Slimer.
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TtfnJohn (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 5:46pm

Re:
You;re saying he knows how to use Wikipedia. I suspect that's a stretch of the truth unless an aide types in the URL for him.
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Modplan (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 5:51pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Who said anything about the servers being legal? Once again, SOPA doesn't give a shit about where the servers are, only where the domain names are. Nor does SOPA immunise a site with both a US domain name and a foreign one, meaning so long as a site has registered a foreign domain name, SOPA would seem to apply.

(5) DOMESTIC INTERNET SITE- The term `domestic Internet site' means an Internet site for which the corresponding domain name or, if there is no domain name, the corresponding Internet Protocol address, is a domestic domain name or domestic Internet Protocol address.

[...]

(8) FOREIGN INTERNET SITE- The term `foreign Internet site' means an Internet site that is not a domestic Internet site.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c112:1:./temp/~c112W9WibB:e3532:
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 6:03pm

"It is also an abuse of power given the freedoms these companies enjoy in the marketplace today."

Yet it's OK for established corporations to spend whatever they want on political ads and that's not an abuse of their freedoms, that's free speech. Yet, the moment someone does it in a way that challenges government established monopolists, it's an abuse of freedoms. The double standard here never ceases to amaze me.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 6:20pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Yeah, so? What exactly are you trying to say?

Wikipedia isn't dedicated to infringement. The bill won't affect them in the slightest.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 6:21pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
what is written there is that only portions of it needs to be dedicate to infringement to trigger sanctions.

oh really? Then post the exact language that says that.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 6:22pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
After a court agrees the site is dedicated to infringement.

So?
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 6:25pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Only portions thereof need to be classified as dedicated to infringement to trigger action.

A post could be dedicated to infringement, an image anything apparently.

Can you point where in the law proposal it says only if a website is entirely dedicated to infringement it will be punished?

Because the words that I see most there are "or portions thereof".
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 6:26pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Where? Where is the language that says only "portions"? What percentage?
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 6:31pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Really, no seriously.

Quote:
SEC. 102. ACTION BY ATTORNEY GENERAL TO PROTECT U.S. CUSTOMERS AND PREVENT U.S. SUPPORT OF FOREIGN INFRINGING SITES.

(a) Definition- For purposes of this section, a foreign Internet site or portion thereof is a `foreign infringing site' if--

(1) the Internet site or portion thereof is a U.S.-directed site and is used by users in the United States;

(2) the owner or operator of such Internet site is committing or facilitating the commission of criminal violations punishable under section 2318, 2319, 2319A, 2319B, or 2320, or chapter 90, of title 18, United States Code; and

(3) the Internet site would, by reason of acts described in paragraph (1), be subject to seizure in the United States in an action brought by the Attorney General if such site were a domestic Internet site.

Can you do word searches in text?
If you can blink twice and search for "or portion thereof".
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 6:32pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
(1) DEDICATED TO THEFT OF U.S. PROPERTY- An `Internet site is dedicated to theft of U.S. property' if--

(A) it is an Internet site, or a portion thereof, that is a U.S.-directed site and is used by users within the United States; and

(B) either--

(i) the U.S.-directed site is primarily designed or operated for the purpose of, has only limited purpose or use other than, or is marketed by its operator or another acting in concert with that operator for use in, offering goods or services in a manner that engages in, enables, or facilitates--

(I) a violation of section 501 of title 17, United States Code;

(II) a violation of section 1201 of title 17, United States Code; or

(III) the sale, distribution, or promotion of goods, services, or materials bearing a counterfeit mark, as that term is defined in section 34(d) of the Lanham Act or section 2320 of title 18, United States Code; or

(ii) the operator of the U.S.-directed site--

(I) is taking, or has taken, deliberate actions to avoid confirming a high probability of the use of the U.S.-directed site to carry out acts that constitute a violation of section 501 or 1201 of title 17, United States Code; or

(II) operates the U.S.-directed site with the object of promoting, or has promoted, its use to carry out acts that constitute a violation of section 501 or 1201 of title 17, United States Code, as shown by clear expression or other affirmative steps taken to foster infringement.
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Heretictus (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 6:32pm

Re: like the fourth dimension
My thoughts exactly. It's becomming clear that Lamar Smith thinks only of himself in all aspects of his daily life. It's what he is at his core. He simply can't comprehend the idea of standing up for other people's rights.

The issue with SOPA is not what the bill says, but what it doesn't say. We're all familiar with the abuse that has occurred under current laws such as the DMCA. We've seen the results of RIAA lawsuits against grandmothers argued before luddite judges. We've seen the degree to which MPAA/RIAA is willing to go to get what they want. What SOPA does not say will be construed by MPAA/RIAA and our judicial system as open to interpretation, at which point whomever as the most money will win.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 6:34pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
I doubt any court will take great care to preserve the First Amendment or any other important law since they are not obliged to do so and nothing happens if they don't, so when they start getting the list with thousands of infringing websites I am pretty sure nobody will look at it more than a second before rubber stamping the damn thing.

You see the AG has no incentive to get it right, content owners have no incentive to get it right and nothing happens if they get it wrong so it will be like shooting fish in a barrel for them and it won't matter if those fish are innocent or not.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 6:36pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Can you point to the language that says a single post could classify a site as
"primarily designed or operated for the purpose of, has only limited purpose or use other than, or is marketed by its operator or another acting in concert with that operator for use in, offering goods or services in a manner that engages in, enables, or facilitates--

(I) a violation of section 501 of title 17, United States Code;

(II) a violation of section 1201 of title 17, United States Code; or

(III) the sale, distribution, or promotion of goods, services, or materials bearing a counterfeit mark, as that term is defined in section 34(d) of the Lanham Act or section 2320 of title 18, United States Code; or

(ii) the operator of the U.S.-directed site--

(I) is taking, or has taken, deliberate actions to avoid confirming a high probability of the use of the U.S.-directed site to carry out acts that constitute a violation of section 501 or 1201 of title 17, United States Code; or

(II) operates the U.S.-directed site with the object of promoting, or has promoted, its use to carry out acts that constitute a violation of section 501 or 1201 of title 17, United States Code, as shown by clear expression or other affirmative steps taken to foster infringement."?

of course you can't, you fool.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 6:38pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Moronic, baseless FUD.
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Killercool (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 6:41pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
A court does NOT have to agree that the site is dedicated to infringement, just that the belief that such was true was "reasonable".

The same court system that has repeatedly agreed that "someone told me it was true" is all the reasoning needed to make obvious lies NOT libel (see Tabloids V. Anyone).

You don't have to be convicted of a crime for your arrest to be legit.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 6:44pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
What is saying right there is that any website dedicate to infringement whole or not can suffer action, that is what the "either" word above indicates.

Either means "any of these", it doesn't mean "only this one".
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 6:49pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
You forgot the "(B)Either--" part which puts the whole thing into perspective, any violation of any of those sections can trigger action against someone so eve a post describing how to circumvent anything can be seem as "or portion thereof" dedicated to infringement.
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Killercool (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 6:49pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Easily. Each section, including the one you use to support your own argument, is prepended by some variation of "the Internet site or portion thereof."
Portion is not defined, and last I checked, any portion, however small, is still a portion. Including a single, user-generated post.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 7:03pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
I'm disappointed.
This is the best you can do to prove me wrong?
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demented, 17 Jan 2012 @ 7:03pm

Re: Re: Re:
If God did come out against SOPA/PIPA, Lamar Smith would insist he was just a stooge of Google and in favor of piracy.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 7:04pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Suggesting a web site would be taken down for one post is pure FUD.

You people are shameless.
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Modplan (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 7:11pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
The part where it says:

(a) Definition- For purposes of this section, a foreign Internet site or portion thereof is a `foreign infringing site' if--

(1) the Internet site or portion thereof is a U.S.-directed site and is used by users in the United States;

(2) the owner or operator of such Internet site is committing or facilitating the commission of criminal violations punishable under section 2318, 2319, 2319A, 2319B, or 2320, or chapter 90, of title 18, United States Code;

For starters, and the part you quoted from "either" onwards that states any site that has avoided "confirming a high probability of the use of the U.S.-directed site to carry out acts that constitute a violation of section 501 or 1201 of title 17, United States Code".

I should also note the part you quote only applies to the private action that can be taken by presumed copyright holders, not to any others, taken from section 103.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 7:13pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Murdering is actually morally wrong though, so . . .
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 7:14pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Because FUD!
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Loki, 17 Jan 2012 @ 7:16pm

Re: Re: Re:
When we see some legislation that actually deals with piracy we can discuss the matter.

All I see is a couple of bills designed to help the entertainment industry try to regain control of all the distribution channels so they can continue to charge monopoly rents and force content creators to relinquish their copyright.

I'd advocate their CDs and DVDs should be dumped into the ocean at this point, but unfortunately they won't dissolve like tea does.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 7:20pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Lookee, troll, if you have to go to these lengths to find or explain this law to ANYONE, it is a failure, full stop.

Take SOPA/PIPA out back, heave them into a dumpster, and light them on fire.

Then get your whining, entitled asses OUT OF MY GOVERNMENT. Pay your own freight, fix your retarded business models, and shut the everlovingfuck up.
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Loki, 17 Jan 2012 @ 7:28pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Everyone knows SOPA wouldn't have any effect on Wikipedia,

These are the same everyones who knew the Patriot Act and the DCMA wouldn't, and in fact couldn't, be abused right?

I'd like to meet one of these "everyones" so I can tell them "here's your sign".
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 7:40pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
And what are the standards by which one gets the court to agree? "But but but piracy"? Or will they actually get real standards this time, befitting a burden of proof?
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 7:42pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Can you prove now that it cannot, people showed you the verbiage in the law that would allow such scenario and you keep insisting it doesn't exist when is right there in front of your eyes. What is the problem? mental blockage due to mental bias interference?

The whole law is bonkers, for start to end is one pile of crok, not only SOPA but also PIPA and OpenSOPA(or whatever it was called).
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 7:48pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Unlike piracy, murdering individuals can be stopped.

Are you going to pay to put 30% of the population of every country in the world behind bars?
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 7:49pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
But making up harm to press for censor ready legislation is not?
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 7:51pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Translation:

Since we can't do nothing about foreign websites we will do the next best thing and that is punch other business which we think are helping them and we want immunity to do it too.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 8:01pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
We are not suggesting anything is written in black and whit in all its glory "or portions thereof" what part of "portion" you don't understand?
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 8:01pm

Maybe society needs to split
Maybe the divide is just too big.

There are a lot of people who understand the damage this badly drafted legislation can do to the future. There are some who seem to have no clue. Like those drafting it.

We need a way to split the world. Put walls up that keep these folk out of our lives.

Now how do we do that!!
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bjupton (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 8:03pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
It almost seems more like:

Capitalist Lion Tamer: I'm against the death penalty

**AA: Why aren't you proposing alternative solutions? And if they don't result in death then they don't count!
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 8:04pm

Re: Maybe society needs to split
It is called prison.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 8:08pm

Re: Re:
Wikipedia "could" run into a problem appears intended to create yet another panic that does not track the acutal language of the bills

Bullshit. By allowing users to post content, Wikipedia is indeed "an Internet site that is used by users within the United States; and primarily designed for the purpose of offering services in a manner that enables, or facilitates" copyright infringement, and thus is (according to section 103 of the *current* SOPA bill, "Dedicated to theft of US property".

Any site that enables posting potentially infringing material could be taken down by SOPA.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 8:20pm

US Credibility Abroad - Foreign Policy
A very good point was brought up in a public meeting at State last week. The State Department advocates very vocally throughout the world for the need to have an open and free Internet as a mechanism to foster freedom of speech and democracy. The US would lose its moral credibility to advocate for this should SOPA pass.
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keiichi969 (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 8:27pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Which he has decided to politicize. Everyone knows SOPA wouldn't have any effect on Wikipedia, so if Wales is going to get into the lobbying business, shouldn't he offer alternatives?

Jimbo isn't the one behind this. He left it up completely to wikipedia's editors if we wanted to go forward with any kind of SOPA/PIPA protest. I'm on the list of signatures on the vote for the blackout.

Jim Wales is allowing the community to voice its protest through Wikipedia.
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Loki, 17 Jan 2012 @ 8:43pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
IT doesn't need to affect Wikipedia directly.

These bills do little or nothing to stop any actual piracy.

They do have the potential to be used to stifle competition and innovation.

They do little to help protect or create job in the entertainment industry (although they may do wonders for the tech support industry).

They do open the internet up to the potential for more breaches, hacking and spam (there's a reason that not just internet engineers have come out in force against this bill but that groups like Anonymous have been suspiciously quiet in the matter).

In addition it's not just a matter of SOPA/PIPA.

They more or less rammed the DCMA through.
They more or less rammed ACTA through (mostly behind closed doors and in secret).
They are already working on TPP (which is to ACTA what SOPA is to the DCMA) behind closed doors.

So it's not just how SOPA/PIPA can be used it's also how they can be used in conjunction with other legislation. To start, SOPA/PIPA set a precedent for other nations to adopt there own versions (other countries already have these bills under consideration, the State Department has already successfully pressure Spain into adopting one, and the entertainment industry is trying to pressure Canada into adopting one to be included in negotiations on TPP).

And while a US site clearly isn't foreign to the US, it would be foreign to Spain or the UK, or Germany, and thereby subject to similar provisions in the bills of those countries. Then all that is needed is a provision in some "trade agreement" like ACTA or TPP (or whatever comes after TPP if they can get that bill rammed through) that would allow any member nation to take action for violations of any other member nation (thereby allowing the US to take down a website not for violating the US version of SOPA, but for violating say the Netherlands version of SOPA).

And if you think the industry isn't going to push for such a provision at some point, you are clearly ignoring almost the entire history of the RIAA and MPAA.

And if you think the entertainment industries efforts will end with SOPA/PIPA or TPP, you are again pretty much ignoring the entire history of the RIAA and MPAA (as there continual effort to push longer and broader copyright extensions has repeated proven).

And if you think the government (and industry) won't abuse these rules as well, you've largely chosen to ignore the (at least recent) history of the federal government. Just look at there abuses of the Patriot Act and the DCMA.

I don't need to point out the exact language in the bill that directly affects Wikipedia.

I don't need to point out the exact language in the bill that directly affects me.

In fact, one of the biggest problems with the bill is largely it's lack of "exact language" for anything.

At some point a line needs to be drawn, and a lot of people have chosen this as that line.

As the old saying starts: "First they came for the communists.."

Well I'm not about to wait until they get to the "trade unionists" or the "jews" much less wait for them to get to me.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 8:51pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
I believe what you are saying is that it does not appear to be a "service provider" as defined in Section 101 of the bill.
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Shaun Wilson (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 9:04pm

MPAA skews facts?
I thought it was more the politicians campaign funds that the MPAA typically "skews"
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 9:07pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Something seems missing from your 101(23). I have the manager's amendment to the original bill, and in it 101(23) provides that a US-Directed Site is a foreign Internet site.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 9:07pm

Its just politicians wanting money, I say the people should stop this nonsense by calling for the resignation of ALL career politicians
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Violated (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 9:19pm

Re: Fine, I'll Do It!!!
The only way that would work is a long term funding plan. No good a one year buy back if he has been MPAA/RIAA funded for 20 years.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 9:28pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Not sure I agree that the DMCA was rammed through. The safe harbor provision was inserted to reach an accommodation between rights holders and service providers, and the insertion was at the request of service providers.

The safe harbor provision actually was a very important change to US copyright law, providing online providers with protection from infringement liability that is not generally available to others in the off-line world.

If the service providers follow the DMCA rules they are essentially immune from liability. Failure to do so, however, can place them in the same legal position as those in the off-line world.
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Violated (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 9:37pm

Blackout Started
The MPAA and Lamar Smith have done it this time. Let us keep in mind who are the biggest liars around with their propaganda economics and much more.

Wikipedia is already blacked out I see. This was done by the vote of the users where over 99% agreed.

First they come for the infringing sites. You do nothing because they infringe.
Then they come for sites like DaJaz1 and OnSmash. They must be bad you think and do nothing.
Then they come for site that annoy them. Again you do nothing.
Then they come for you but... No one is left to help you.

Fight Censorship while you still can.
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Violated (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 9:49pm

Re: US Credibility Abroad - Foreign Policy
The moral credibility of the State Department is already in question after they forced on Spain (under threats) their own SOPA-like law.

Actions will speak vastly more than minor words from now on.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 10:04pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
What you mean to say, but in your haste to make an ill thought out and terrible analogy is.... "why have laws against murder?" I'd also accept (as correct) "why have anti-murder laws"

"Murder laws" sounds like you're saying laws that advocate for murder.

Just a heads up.

Oh yeah, and real nice form of debating you have there. You didn't even start with reason or logic. You jumped straight into the ad homs like a champ and aren't refuting anything with actual facts or evidence (you know, like showing specific text from the bill that says Wikipedia WILL NOT be able to be harmed/censored in any way).

I place the burden of proof on you. As you seem to do to others.
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Jan 2012 @ 10:11pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
That is not even the half of it, it was just the first section of the law and it already showed everyone that it was a bad law.

SOPA also may criminalize and make US businessmen criminals and responsible for anything that happens in their websites that are registered outside the US.

(2) the owner or operator of such Internet site is committing or facilitating the commission of criminal violations punishable under section 2318, 2319, 2319A, 2319B, or 2320, or chapter 90, of title 18, United States Code; and

So if an American has a website that is registered outside the US and something happens there he will be responsible and liable for it even if what it happens over there is legal in that part of the world, Americans can't own business elsewhere apparently.

Every single American website/internet business will have to create LLC's ad nauseum to limit their liabilities, they will have to have one American company and another for global trade.

That is just perfect.

Make every American asset less desirable on the internet.
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Karl (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 10:32pm

Re: Oh, really?
hey tried not so long ago to permanently strip music artists of the rights to their own work.

They're still trying to do that.
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Derek Kerton (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 11:14pm

Re: Re:
Forget Jimmy Wales and Wikipedia for a sec...

What we should really be asking if it would be irresponsible for, say, Lamar and the ITC or DOJ to black out a site for a day against the site owner's will? Say Dajaz1, just as an example.

And what if they did it for about a year instead of a day?

And what if they did it under false pretenses, a shield of secrecy, and with no explanation at all? And what if it were pretty much done just on the whim of the RIAA?

And what if it turned out they were completely wrong, and had to reverse their actions? Would that qualify as irresponsible?
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Derek Kerton (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 11:16pm

Re: Re: Re:
Yes, but the era of NBC and Rupert being the only communication channel people learn from is waning.

Wikipedia and other sites are a powerful voice, too. Especially when united.

In fact, this kind of activism is the only possible antidote to getting the sheeple masses to actually understand what is at stake, and how important it is.

Are you suggesting Wikipedia not do it, and just leave that job to Rupert?
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Derek Kerton (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 11:30pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Instead of asking us to do pointless work of finding precise language in a vague bill, why don't YOU point out to me the "exact language" of the earlier Pro-IP legislation that should "effect [sic]" the website Dajaz1.

Dajaz1, for those who don't know, was seized for about a year by ICE under that legislation, also promoted by Lamar Smith.

If there is no exact language you can find that would incriminate Dajaz1, then we can reasonably conclude that these vague laws are routinely and clumsily abused by vested interests and over-reaching government agencies to stifle freedom and shut down sites unfairly.
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Derek Kerton (profile), 17 Jan 2012 @ 11:36pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
So you think the main reason people don't murder is murder laws?

Also, you think nobody commits murder because there are laws against it?
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Brian Dell, 18 Jan 2012 @ 12:06am

Wikipedia still a charity?
If Wikipedia keeps up with the lobbying the IRS will pull their non-profit status. Correct terminology would therefore be "was" a charity and "might" still be.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Jan 2012 @ 12:15am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
"If anybody asks you if you are a God, answer yes"

Ghostbusters 198something.
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techflaws.org (profile), 18 Jan 2012 @ 12:23am

Re: Re: Re:
Is Wales going to suggest an alternative or just protest any piracy legislation that is introduced?

No, only the bad ones that would mess up the internet and not stop piracy. Besides, I wasn't aware he has to do a politician's job?
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techflaws.org (profile), 18 Jan 2012 @ 12:26am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
shouldn't he offer alternatives.

No. You don't have to be a cow to say the milk tastes bad.
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PaulT (profile), 18 Jan 2012 @ 12:42am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
No, you misunderstand. They don't just want alternatives, they want alternatives that other people can enforce for them, with as little work on their part as possible. That's why it's like talking to a brick wall - things like changing business models and treating the world like the international marketplace it truly is requires actual work. It's *hard*. They want alternatives that are as easy as buying off senators and making others to enforce rules for them.
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PaulT (profile), 18 Jan 2012 @ 1:21am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
"ill thought out and terrible analogy"

Tactic #5 in the AC playbook, usually reverted to after calling people thieves and saying they haven't read the bill have failed.
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Karl (profile), 18 Jan 2012 @ 3:35am

Re: Wikipedia still a charity?
If Wikipedia keeps up with the lobbying

News flash: blacking out your site in protest is not "lobbying."
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Marcel de Jong (profile), 18 Jan 2012 @ 4:49am

Re: Re: Re:
Meanwhile it isn't even an anti-piracy law. SOPA does nothing to deter piracy. Nor does PIPA protect Imaginary, I mean 'Intellectual' Property.
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the defenestrator (profile), 18 Jan 2012 @ 5:03am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
I've wondered about this too, but then I saw an answer on another blog that went something like this:

"technology made this (infringement) happen, so it's technology's resposibility to fix it"
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Michael, 18 Jan 2012 @ 6:12am

Re: Re: Oh, really?
Yeah, I know.

Actually, I mistakened the MPAA for the RIAA in my last post. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to confuse one mafia cartel for another.
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wec, 18 Jan 2012 @ 6:30am

Per Myth Busters:
Lamar Smith: "I reject reality and substitute my own!"

Sorry, Myth Busters
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Hephaestus (profile), 18 Jan 2012 @ 6:52am

Re: Re: Re:
"Any site that enables posting potentially infringing material could be taken down by SOPA."

Any site that enables posting could be taken down by SOPA.

FTFY
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indieThing, 18 Jan 2012 @ 7:09am

Re: Re: Re:
Yeah, I saw that and was disgusted, so I dropped them an email to complain via their website:

I don't normally write to complain about anything, but the BBCs reporting on the subject of a proposed American legislation, SOPA and PIPA was erroneous and misrepresented those protesting against SOPA/PIPA.

The reporting made those protesting seem like they were pro-piracy or copyright infringement. This is NOT the case, most people are protesting because this bill could cause serious harm to the internet security structure as well as giving censorship privileges to private parties. All this without any form of liability or due process.

There is enough evidence from the last so called 'piracy law', passed by the American government, the DMCA, that shows these draconian laws are misused to help slow down or even shut down business competitors, it's even used to censor free speech. Google has made no secret that the DMCA has a very high percentage of false take down notices.

Also, this bill will do nothing to prevent copyright infringement, and speaking as a content producer with a very good technical background, I can assure you that in my commercial experience, copyright infringement does no major economic harm, having had my products 'pirated' many times. According to all the independent reports and even the American governments own GAO, most figures spouted by the pro-copyright industry are totally misleading.

If everyone else in the UK reading this could do the same, perhaps we can get them to take notice or at least give both sides equal footing in the news coverage.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Jan 2012 @ 7:16am

Re:
How about every internet user hitting that site.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Jan 2012 @ 7:24am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak out because I was Protestant.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

It doesn't matter if they are directly targeted *now* because if this powergrabs continue they will eventually be destroyed as well. maybe not by this law, but by the next one. And I bet everything that there will be a next one regardless.

So stop this ignorant shilling and stop playing divide and conquer.

Wasn't one of the most important credos in the US "united we stand, divided we fall"? here people are uniting against an awful and unjustified powergrab on behalf of some "big" companies (really, they cover not even 1-2% GDP)in Favor of everyones freedom. Yes, even yours, so you jackass should reconsider your allegiance, because once they come for you, nobody will be left to rally for you. And they WILL come for you, because in eye of corporations people are expendable, money is not.
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Gwiz (profile), 18 Jan 2012 @ 8:15am

Re: Wikipedia still a charity?
If Wikipedia keeps up with the lobbying the IRS will pull their non-profit status. Correct terminology would therefore be "was" a charity and "might" still be.

What are you talking about? Wikipedia is registered as a 501(c)(3) organization (I believe) and can absolutely engage in lobbying. There are spending limits imposed by the IRS for such activities, but I wouldn't think Wikipedia blacking out their own page would be considered such an expense.
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Gwiz (profile), 18 Jan 2012 @ 8:26am

Re: Re: Wikipedia still a charity?
For example, PETA is a 501(c)(3) organization and they lobby for things all the time.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Jan 2012 @ 9:01am

Re:
Uh No, I don't think you really understand what is going on here. Nor how bad this really is.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Jan 2012 @ 10:19am

Re: Fine, I'll Do It!!!
How about $1 a day to adopt a politician... we could put up pictures of these poor politicians wondering where their next bribehand out will come from. Some caring family can adopt the politician and provide a steady bribehand out revenue stream for a year. Great idea!!! I wonder if World Vision is interested.
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s. keeling, 18 Jan 2012 @ 10:34am

Re: Call for all coders ...
Call for all coders to start a race to develop a [distributed] P2P fileshare system that has [an] embedded webserver that replicates the Pirate Bay in every computer installed, it only takes 5Gigabytes.

That's an interesting idea, and yes, I'm a "coder" (FYI, I advocate boycotting *AAs; I don't "pirate").

Over the decades I've been online, I've seen calls from others to fork the net into undernet, othernet, darknet, et al. But this sort of tool would run as just another "service" (daemon), a la bind, sshd, finger, portmap, ... on every computer. That's just damned near sublime. No need to fork the net. Just rip the damned thing back out of the hands of those who're trying to steal it from us, and carry on as it should.

I like it.

[btw, Thanks Mike!]
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Malatesta, 18 Jan 2012 @ 10:43am

Of course it is.
Of course it's a publicity stunt, it's just not Wikipedia's publicity stunt, it's "the people's". Wikipedia is showing solidarity with thousands, if not millions, of other websites that are against these policies.

Join our FB group to hold these people accountable:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/imprisonllamarsmith/
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ZeeBat (profile), 18 Jan 2012 @ 11:20am

Re: Re: Re:
+infinity
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Stephan, 18 Jan 2012 @ 12:14pm

Money -> Mouth
If, as congressbeing Lamar Smith says, "the bill will not harm Wikipedia, domestic blogs or social networking sites", he could volunteer to personally underwrite all legal costs for Wikipedia, all social networking sites, and all domestic blogs for lawsuits arising from SOPA and PIPA.

Plausible? If not, why not?
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wallow-T, 18 Jan 2012 @ 12:31pm

Re: Wikipedia still a charity?
Wikipedia: "... the IRS will pull their non-profit status."

False. USA Non-profits are not allowed to endorse political CANDIDATES. They are allowed to advocate on issues.

Wikipedia would not be allowed to say, "Vote Against Senator Lamar Smith, he's for SOPA" but they are allowed to marshal resources to oppose SOPA.
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RonKaminsky (profile), 18 Jan 2012 @ 1:33pm

Section 104
In Section 104, payment providers (and others) are granted immunity from prosecution if (and only if) they act on requests from private parties claiming infringement.

Which means that the actions taken will be extra-judicial, unless these payment providers (and others) have the balls to question such requests. Hint: in practice, they won't --- unless, possibly, the site in question is a really major one (Google Wallet, for example).

Don't forget that if they themselves ignore such requests, they could be considered to be "aiding infringement" or "enabling circumvention".
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Derek Kerton (profile), 18 Jan 2012 @ 2:08pm

Re: Money -> Mouth
I like your intention, but your proposal is not logical.

By assuming the possible legal bills for Wikipedia, Lamar would be exposing himself to risk SOPA or PIPA were used unfairly against wikipedia as we know it today. This is what you assumed, and why you want to challenge him as you do.

However, he Lamar also exposes himself to the risk if wikipedia DID actually begin to engage directly in copyright violations, or the sale of counterfeit items. Since wikipedia could (but wouldn't) do that, and it is out of the control of Lamar, he should not assume the risk. It's not a fair corner to paint him in.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Jan 2012 @ 6:14pm

Re: Re: Fine, I'll Do It!!!
It's called taxes...
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AzureSky (profile), 18 Jan 2012 @ 8:02pm

Re:
yeah, now if somebody/bodies pulled out a belt/switch and started flogging the SOB's who support this shit...that would be a good punishment....well starter punishment...then you could really get evil and make them watch some of their own content....start with "the room" make them drink plenty of stimulants and watch that shit...lol.
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AzureSky (profile), 18 Jan 2012 @ 8:20pm

Re: Re:
ROFL@ #Operation Cone Wars....

thanks honestly, this made my night....
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Crn_V1, 19 Jan 2012 @ 4:43am

So lemme get this straight: MPAA abuses power to get things done their way, and then they acuse Wikipedia for "abusing power to get their way" by letting people know what's going on....
"Pot calling kettle black" much, MPAA?
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Crockett, 19 Jan 2012 @ 8:16am

Another Black mark for Texas
Just another embarrassment for the State of Texas.

With all due respect, Mr Smith himself does not understand the ramifications of the legislation that he has introduced. His very own campaign website had to be radically changed, due to copyrighted images being used without permission.

In addition he accepted almost twice the amount of campaign contributions from Movie/TV/Entertainment lobbyist groups/businesses, as his fellow lawmakers in 2010. I am further enraged, that he refuses to listen to the very residents of his state, and plans on continuing to fight for a flawed bill.

I'm sorry, but it is clear that Congressman Smith is only interested in keeping the businesses that have kept him in office, for 26 years, happy above and beyond eroding already damaged civil liberties, in the name of protecting business, over the right of individuals.

It is precisely this type of arrogant and misguided decision making, that prompted the framers of our constitution, to stand up to tyranny and adopt laws protecting the rights of INDIVIDUALS.

SOPA PIPA cannot work. Clearly the supporters don't understand the impact of the laws themselves. This needs to be identified for what it really is, in clear terms: THE SANCTIONED CENSORING AND REGULATION of the Internet in violation of free speech.

The reasoning behind the bill is much less important than the end result. Compelling arguments can always be made, but liberties once lost, are hard fought to be won again.

Shame on you, Congressman Smith and shame on us in the state of Texas for continuing to vote for ludicrous politicians like you.
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Davis, 19 Jan 2012 @ 10:43am

What is diligent?
"elected and administration officials who are working diligently to protect American jobs from foreign criminals"

To establish an environment of cold one must perform work in order to remove heat. Just as cold is the absence of heat, oppression is the absence of liberty and to establish such an environment requires effort to remove such liberty. If not for constant legislation of the purported need for balance and order, the lethargic representative would be all that is required to sustain the free world. Problems in the U.S. are historically small these days, and yet it is the busy-body, read diligent career politician or mere government employee who will spend endless amounts of time and the money of others to contrive a better mouse trap. Left to their own devices an obsessive compulsive will always find something to do with themselves. The gamma worker will direct their efforts to a meaningless, endless pursuit; content in the process of converting their time into a standard of living. And for every diligent busy-body who is striving to �protect American jobs from foreign criminals�, there are likely as many who are working against those efforts. Now we have a government resembling a Rube Goldberg contraption and the builders are busier annexing now than ever. It is a bureaucratic singularity amassing departments and laws at an ever increasing rate to maintain �stability �within an ever growing civilization. It is the war of the busy-bodies where everyone else being the casualties. And when we can no longer ingest the touts of justification this juggernaut we call the Federal government spews at us, they will plead that it�s only a morsel, a mere sliver. Just say no to federal representative action should be the people�s slogan. But only the busy-bodies are paying attention and their aftermath just moves the herd from one place to the next supposedly edging closer to utopia with each progression.
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The Luke Witnesser, 20 Jan 2012 @ 5:00am

Here lies the truth about SOPA/PIPA that even TechDirt has yet to report: what MPAA, RIAA, and Hollywood execs do not want you to see.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJIuYgIvKsc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzS5rSvZXe8

The truth behind why these big companies responsible for SOPA and PIPA are also responsible for piracy itself is far more insidious than even their outmoded business model.

Hint: can you say, do as I say so I can crush you under heel?
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 12:49pm

Re:
you're a dumbass
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Anonymous Coward, 24 Jan 2012 @ 7:08am

Re: Re:
You would be saying this not to me but the people who formed this government and all those they learned from since I am merely repeating what they have already put their names to. And according to this site, you're a nobody and likely the reason why some think the government should be regulating the internet.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Feb 2012 @ 11:04am

Re: Re:
Not really I am just at school and am not able to log in. My name is Zachary Ethridge and my email is zac78155@yahoo.com

I think what they are talking about in the article is one of the most rediculous abuses of power possible and that is misinformation from a trusted source, and the source that I am talking about is not Wikipedia.
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