Decades-Old UK Pub 'The Hobbit' Threatened With Legal Action For Infringing On Hobbit IP
from the pointless dept
As a whole bunch of folks have been sending in, the Saul Zaentz Company (SZC), which holds the intellectual property rights associated with The Hobbit, has stupidly threatened a small UK pub called "The Hobbit" which has used the name for over 20 years without any problem.Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyoneβs attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
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Filed Under: copyright, hobbit, pub, trademark, uk
Companies: saul zaentz company
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Yes it is - but you don't seem to grasp the basics.
If you allow this one, then by extension you allow them to open another location, and another, and franchise it out, and soon you have The Hobbit all over the place, with the characters and concepts dragged down to the level of selling booze.
So yeah, it hurts.
It's amazing sometimes how you entirely miss the concept.
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Your delusions grow ever larger.
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That was my take on the situation too.
I'm sure they need not be so harsh. Tell them to drop the images from the movie, keep everything else. We'll give you a license for $1/year. If you want to expand to more locations at any time, that's not covered in the current license, and would be renegotiated at that time.
That should be good for everyone.
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However I disagree with the current law. These characters and likenesses should have long since been public domain by now. Tolkien is dead.
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So, does this mean I can't build a pub and slap Cthulhu characters all around it (Lovecraft) or Alice in Wonderland (Charles Dickens)?
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What characters if the pub is named as Hobbit and has nothing in there linking it to Tolkien's work, where is the problem exactly?
Trademarks are business specific, where is the relation to the publishing or film world?
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That said, the copyrights on these things should have long since expired.
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As for franchising out the name if the owners of the place haven't done that after two decades they're not about to now.
This is pure bullying on the same level as the IOC trying to force Olympia Pizza in Vancouver to change it's name and logo lest someone confuse a well known pizza joint with the Olympics. No one is about to confuse this little pub with Hobbitt/LoTR official stuff so I fail to see what the problem is about.
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Are you telling me that this isn't possible?
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Did Tolkien hold the trademarks for pubs or just for his publishing? There is no competition there, those are two different segments of the market, where is the pub Hobbit using characters from it or trying to be associated with Tolkien in any way?
Further Tolkien apparently didn't invent the term Hobbit either which makes claims of trademarks on it very, very suspicious and weak.
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If you're referring to Samwise Gamgee, someone who has reread the books more times than he could count would probably remember that Sam was Frodo's gardener. Perhaps you're thinking of Nob, the hobbit who was part of a pub operation in Bree.
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So yeah, it hurts.
It's amazing sometimes how you entirely miss the concept.
Ok - so what would they do if they were smart
1. Realize that pursuing this one would be really bad publicity.
2. Offer the pub a free licence. (Gets around the "by extension" argument).
3. Hold a publicity event at the pub to promote the film.
But of course they, like you, are stupid AND mean.
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It features characters from Tolkien's stories on its signs, has "Frodo" and "Gandalf" cocktails on the menu, and the face of Lord of the Rings film star Elijah Wood on its loyalty card.
"Landlady Ms Roberts said: "We were absolutely stunned. It was completely unexpected, we never intended to infringe anyone's copyright." - C'mon now lady really? She didnt think plastering the likeness of those character was copyright infringement?
I dont agree they should have to change their name as they have been using it for 20 years, but use of the characters, that stretches it a little there. Does it hurt? No. Does it bring more attention to their product? Maybe.
"A letter from SZC asked it to remove all references to the characters. " So without seeing the letter, and going on the BBC, it appears she does not have to change the name, just stop using the characters.
Meh, not so bad IMHO.
Now if they expect them to change the name, well lets get them on a kickstarter kind of program to get them the legal help they need.
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Why do these companies have to go ALL OUT to shut these places down instead of trying to compromise in a case where they have clearly used this name for years without problem.
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Big Bullying Small
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The new name
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Except the copytards fubared the system.
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I find the thought of "line crossing" involving putting up images of movie/book characters pretty amusing.
Now maybe if they had THIS http://cdn.trendhunterstatic.com/thumbs/middle-finger-stop-sign.jpeg as one of their signs I might understand the issue, but, eh, sense, not to be found within 500 miles of censorright dealings.
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Tolkien's wishes
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They could have come to an arrangement to settle the issues, gotten a tiny license fee, removed some of the "bad things" from the menu and the like... but instead the only option ever considered is nuclear.
The fact they have been in business for 20 years unmolested should cause them all sorts of problems in forcing a name change, as to the other issues of other things using character names one would need to look at how long they have been in use.
If you want to ignore it for 20 years and suddenly get offended, you should not have the option to smash them now.
Part of copyrights and such is the requirement that you actually do the work in protecting it... not when its convenient or make someone else do it for you and foot the bill.
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So, if this is a trademark claim, then I suspect they're going to have a tough time... although they'll probably claim that this establishment has only recently come to their attention, and that is why they are taking action now.
If they started opening new franchise establishments, then there would definitely be a valid trademark claim at that point, but until that happens, this establishment is just that...established.
If it's a copyright claim, I suspect there's some arguments for "fair use" here... but I suspect we'll have to wait and see.
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This right here is the heart of the matter, instead of choosing the "soft option" they went with the PR disaster of "the bully-option" and now the Hobbit has a wealth op public support.
Trademark and copyright are once again being viewed as a nuisance to the "small guy", great going morons!
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Yeah, mostly from people who aren't old enough to drink legally yet. Big deal.
I would say based on the comments here (and even Mike's original post) people who clearly don't have a clue when it comes to the issues at hand.
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but the PR disaster is about them suing a pub that has been 20 years in existence under the name the hobbit.
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In Other News
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Oh Dear
http://www.bilbospizza.com
17. Old Fatty, whose wise nose led him here.
Sliced breast of turkey, choice roast beef,
monterey jack cheese, shredded lettuce,
fresh tomato and mayo on 7 grain bread .
............ $6.79
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Time for lunch.
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Oh noes!
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I know there's a restaurant here in Houston with that name (since 1972), but I don't think it's any more licensed than the one in the UK...
There's also a restaurant called Treebeards here (since 1978!).
Will future Houstonians have to eat at "the Halfling" and "Treebeers" (both since 2012!) in the future? :O
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