Apple CEO: When Others Violate Our Patents, They're Copying Our Hard Work; When We Violate Patents, The System Is Broken
from the double-standards dept
Apple has certainly been quite the aggressor over the last few years when it comes to patents, so it's interesting to hear that, at the latest All Things D Conference, CEO Tim Cook appears to have a bit of a double standard. You see, when others infringe upon Apple's patents, he insists that they're somehow copying all of Apple's hard work, and that's unfair. Cook uses a ridiculous plagiarism analogy:He compared patent infringement to signing one's name on a painting that someone else put energy into finishing. Cook stressed the importance of companies building their own stuff so that Apple would not be "the developer for the rest of the world."Kinda like, you know, how Apple "signed its name" to the graphical user interface developed at Xerox PARC? Or the mouse developed at SRI? Or multitouch browsing, developed by a bunch of other folks prior to the iPhone? Sure, Apple improved on all of these things, and many other things as well, but Apple is famous for taking the developments done elsewhere and merely putting a nice final consumer-friendly coat of paint on it. No doubt, this is an important step, but it's ridiculous to pretend that Apple has come up with the various ideas it has and no one else could have possibly developed the same things. And, of course, plagiarism (claiming credit for something you didn't do) is an entirely separate issue from infringement (using an invention/creative work without authorization). So it seems silly to even use that analogy.
Of course, then Walt Mossberg brings up the fact that Apple is, in fact, the target of many patent lawsuits as well... and suddenly Cook's tone changes, insisting that those cases are different:
“The vast majority of those are on standards-essential patents,” he said, adding that it's an area where today's patent system is "broken."Now, to some extent he's correct that patent battles over "standards-essential" patents are particularly nefarious, but it still seems like quite the double standard to insist that the patents that Apple has asserted against various makers of Android tablets and smartphones aren't equally silly and destructive to basic market competition. Apple makes great products that people love. If only it would let those products compete fairly in the market, it could save money on the bruising legal fights it's involved in around the globe. Cook admitted that patent battles are "overhead" and he wished the fights weren't so costly. Of course, that would be a lot more convincing if the company hadn't launched so many patent battles itself.
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Filed Under: all things d, gui, multitouch, plagiarism, tim cook
Companies: apple
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They correctly saw an untapped market that was ripe for exploitation and promptly started exploiting it. Welcome to America.
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Fatally Flawed Notion
Just do your job as a journalist. Do it thoroughly.
So called "bias" will take care of itself.
If you are "pandering" then you are simply engaging in crass propaganda and you deserve to be mocked.
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Re: Fatally Flawed Notion
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Apple will feel the backlash of this aggressive stance soon enough. I do hope they start suing each other till the point they look at all the destruction they've caused to each other and reach a consensus to actually lobby for a reform of the patent system. I say Tim, go fully nuclear! Ballmer, do not hold fire! Larry, sue the heck out! Let us bring the apocalypse so ppl can actually see how bad the system is and stop and think about it instead of just keep running on the inertia.
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If Apple, Samsung, HTC, Microsoft, Motorola and Google all got together in a room and agreed to not use their patents against each other, but only against upstarts, we'd call it collusion and the DoJ would have no choice but to go after them. But if they start with a trial and then meet up, people call it a settlement and think all is good.
The patent system is fixed. They rigged it a long time ago.
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Every Corporation Has The Same Motto
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Re: Every Corporation Has The Same Motto
1.They have stolen millions upon millions of dollars from all of US Citizens by their shady tax bullshit
2.They set up their shops in China instead of giving Americans Manufacturing and jobs.
3.They just keep on the suing other Companies over and over yet they steal their ideas.They even stole their idea of an IPAD from Star Trek and from previous science fiction books/stories.
4.One can just imagine what they are paying out to Politicians so they can keep up their lame Business Practices.
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Re: Re: Every Corporation Has The Same Motto
Having just read something along this line the other day, I believe they stole the idea (and look) of the iPad from 2001: A Space Odyssey (the film obviously). In fact, when they took Samsung to court over this in Germany, Samsung's lawyers brought this very point up in court (pointing to 2001: A Space Odyssey as the idea and look from where the iPad originated).
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Re: Re: Re: Every Corporation Has The Same Motto
Samsung's Argument to that is very, undeniably weak. It's like saying the ideas for the MRI scanner, Cell Phones,and yes..even Apple's famed FaceTime application, were patent infringements upon Gene Roddenberry's ideas and technologies that were inspired by his Star Trek series.
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Re: Re: Every Corporation Has The Same Motto
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Re: Re: Every Corporation Has The Same Motto
You can thank us for that =)
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One day, when they have eaten all the poor, the rich will kill each other for food.
Bravo America! Your "Last Man Standing" wet dream of ultimate greed will one day be fulfilled.
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Famous? Apple owes the existence of it's business to it...
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XNU, derived from Mach and FreeBSd (OS kernel powering the prettiness you see)
CUPS for printing
Webkit (forked from KHTML) for web page rendering (powers Safari)
X11/server for compatibility with graphical applications that depend on the X server.
Amongst others. No doubt they've contributed, but a bit cheeky to say they don't want to "become the worlds developers" to say the least. I'd also wander whether any of the projects they use would actually invalidate some of the patents they hold due to prior art.
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Re: Re:
"He compared patent infringement to signing one's name on a painting that someone else put energy into finishing."
As long as you do SOMETHING to "finish" it you can sign your name to the work, even if the finishing is placing it in a frame.
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Re: Re:Things that Apple uses in OSX they didn't originally develop:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeXTSTEP
yup....nothing innovative there *rolls eyes sarcastically*
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I lost all respect for Apple when they released the iPhone4 and then denied that there was even a problem with it for a few weeks.
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Apple has just gotten ridiculous, especially regarding Samsung. The HTC One X/Evo 4G LTE shipments being seized was done in a similar attempt to stifle competition. Which when looked at properly can see it for that, HTC had already corrected the patent issue beforehand to avoid just such actions and still it happened at the behest of Apple. For shame.
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Typo
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Really?
Wait until Samsung, Google, and the others renounce all patents and go totally open-source, then post stuff like this. Otherwise, it's just more baboon-like screeching and throwing of poo.
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Re: Really?
You seem to be the one with a bias. Apple CEO is being a hypocrite in public so he is being called out for it.
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Re: Really?
Perhaps you should take a look in the mirror before you accuse others of bias.
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Re: Really?
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First and second paragraph...
Apple's floppy disk drive systems were non propriatery and were the first to for able to format any 5 1/4" or 3.5" floppy on non-company made floppies.
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Re: First and second paragraph...
That's the hypocrisy that's being criticized.
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Re: Re: First and second paragraph...
Shall we discus the fascinating history of the Apple Desktop Bus...which was typically used to connect Keyboards and Mice to the Macintosh before USB?
The problem that Sculley is complaining about is VERY valid. People are suing other people over the patents they own on INDUSTRY STANDARD FRAND PATENTS. Apple has a right to sue someone when a product can be easily confused with their own. Look at the dock connector for the Samsung Gallaxy IIIS and the Galaxy Tablets......the only difference between them and a STANDARD iPod Dock is a Piece of plastic that you add on to hold. The devices' end of the wire that holds it securely in the device is external and attached to the wire...that same piece of plastic is inside all iPods and iOS devices. All Samsung had to do was use a bunch of left over moldings to make them.
Furthermore, As far as i know, apple is the only company that is selling mobile devices with accurate haptic feedback touch screens
Oh and a kicker, LOOK at a Galaxy Tab and an iPad from a distance of about 10 to 20 feet...same distance the average electronics shopper will notice the product they are looking for.......can you see a difference? more likely not.
So really...Apple has every single right to complain because industry essential standard patents are exactly what they have gotten sued for....Take Motorola Mobility and what is happening to the X-box 360....they trying to sue M$ for infringement. You know why? X-Box 360 which uses MS Silverlight instead of Adobe flash to play videos and...like almost every other devices and every single BluRay Player, Apple device, and flash video players embedded on a web page...uses a video standard called H.264 . AKA (wait for it)............MPEG-4 AVC. I don't see Sony being sued for using it in BluRay, all your cable companies and satellite providers being sued for providing you with HDTV....
*says with overtly sarcastic tone* yes Apple is definitely being "hypocritical" by suing over THEIR designs being stolen and defending themselves against patent trolls.
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Nobody can stay on top forever.
When that day comes I will rejoice.
Note:Yes I'm an Apple hate. I prefer functionality over style. Substance over visual appeal.
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That being said, Watching the actual video, I think he went in a direction in the attempt to make a point, but ended up falling flat on his face.
Using his analogy - I'll attempt to say what I believe he meant to say but failed: There should be a system in place to protect the painter from someone coming along and putting their name on his or her painting. But its rather asinine to have someone come along once that painting sold, and demand a portion of the return because they have a patent on the brush.
The way he ended up saying it, however, made Apple look rather pompous.
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It does make me laugh a little though hearing people saying "This is why i'll never ever buy apple products" from their Windows PC when Microsoft and a whole slew of other technology companies do the same thing.
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Thank god for competition though. A world where Apple had no competition would be a very sad world indeed.
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Have you investigated whether or not Apple is in fact NOT suing anyone for standard-essential patents?
If what he said is true that Apple isn't suing anyone under those grounds, then his statement is true and is not double-edged.
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All of the mindless hype...
Consumer computing products represent the end of a very long R&D chain. If any consumer products company claim they invented something, they are likely lying.
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From the fountainhead:
-Steve Jobs
Your honor, I believe that constitutes willful infringement/theft, so let's just double any damages, shall we?
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Standards Essential patents
Now that Google has more free time on its hands after the Oracle patent trial as defendant, it knows more about what NOT to do, that Oracle did.
Furthermore, with the acquisition of Morotola's 17,000 patents, and last year's 1,000 patents from IBM, I'm sure Google will be looking for some non Standards Essential patents, that is non FRAND patents with real teeth.
Big teeth.
Not stuff like rounded corner rectangles or touching a phone number to dial it.
So far, Google's record includes getting an injunction against Xbox 360, and Microsoft has to put down a bond of 7% of all unsold inventory.
All that is necessary for Apple to triumph is for Google men to do nothing.
Then there is Samsung.
Then HTC.
And Motorola, one of the first to be sued by Apple.
A famous quote:
I'm sure Tim Cook will whine if his precious gets an import ban. But as they say, sauce for the goose. Apple has gotten other OEM's Android phones/tablets banned multiple times in multiple countries. It's about time they enjoy the same.
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Carry on.
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"Xerox contends that the Lisa and Macintosh software stems from work originally done by Xerox scientists and that it was used by Apple without permission."
Source: http://www.nytimes.com/1989/12/15/business/company-news-xerox-sues-apple-computer-over-macintosh-cop yright.html?scp=3&sq=apple+xerox&st=nyt
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Computer,_Inc._v._Microsoft_Corporation#Court_case
help s clarify your rather fuzzy notion.
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Also true is that Apple added substantial and meaningful new development on top of what they saw. They didn't get code from Xerox. They got inspiration.
One of the major foundational pieces Apple developed was Bill Atkinson's QuickDraw. He just assumed that Xerox had some way of repainting only the parts of the screen uncovered when a window on top of it was moved or closed. (There wasn't -- Xerox users had to manually give a command to repaint.) So he devised an extremely clever solution with QuickDraw Regions.
Other significant Apple contributions was the menu bar at top of screen. Single button mouse. Dialog boxes.
Significant mistakes (blame: Jobs) were limiting memory to 128 K with no possibility for upgrade. It was also decreed by the queen that there would be no color -- ever. B&W that ought to be enough for anybody! No slots, nosiree. It was a nice "appliance" vision, yes, but just a bit too far ahead of its time since there wasn't an extremely high speed bus like USB.
Microsoft introduced the concept of the "focus". There was only one. It could move to any control, including buttons. Make no mistake, Apple did not have this. The beauty of the focus was that with some simple global rules, you could move the focus to anywhere and thus operate the computer entirely without a mouse. (Except certain applications like a "paint" type app.)
Microsoft also had a two button mouse but didn't know what to do with it until they hit puberty in 1995. Way later in Windows 95 they realized the 2nd mouse button was for the "context menu" which was a brilliant use. 1995, and certainly 2010 is a very different time than 1984 and technology is everywhere. Time to get rid of the one button mouse which has served its purpose in an earlier time.
Back in the day Apple was so far ahead of everyone in technical innovation it was amazing. Now Apple is all about packaging, perception and pretending to have technical innovation. iOS doesn't even have garbage collection, and Apple doubles down and defends this.
Oh, and Apple is about patent trolling. If you can't beat 'em with technical innovation, then sue 'em.
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(I did see what you were saying)
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When your company started suing people for making smartphones with rounded edges, you gave up your right to complain about the patent system.
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Re: Nothing to do with angles
The Samsung Galaxy S III's camera shares the same EXACT same exact CCD sensor the iPhone 4S uses
Look at the design at a distace and tell me the angles and lines are NOT the same as the iPhone or iPod Touch.
http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Samsung-Galaxy-S-III-Teardown/9391/1#.T8nUfsWwXzR
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