AT&T Can Foist Its Data Plans On You, Whether You Use It Or Not
from the eff-the-customer dept
Our most recent posts on AT&T share something of a theme in that they're about what they won't enable you to do. For instance, you can't inform them of a security hole or you'll face years of prison time. Likewise, we learned recently of their plans to limit what you can do on the internet, or limit your access entirely via one flavor of the now infamous "Six Strikes" plans. Hell, sometimes AT&T doesn't even allow competitors, because logic based on lies is so much more gratifying. That said, we make a habit here of pointing out when companies manage to go the other way and enable rather than disable, so it's with that in mind that we congratulate AT&T for generously enabling (and charging) customers for data plans on used smart phones their customers bought, even when those customers disabled and refuse to use any data applications. (In case you're slow on the uptake: that's sarcasm.)Joel Runyon has the heartfelt story of how AT&T looked out for his own best interests by charging him for a data plan he didn't want, never used, and specifically turned off on his phone.
4-5 months ago, the hardware on my old flip phone was dying (that happens when it's from 2008). I was out of contract with AT&T and so I could have chose to get a new subsidized phone & shiny new 2-year contract with them, but I simply bought a used out-of-contract iPhone 4 from my friend and swapped in my sim card (that whole commitment thing again). Again, no problems. America! Neat.Yes, AT&T unilaterally decided a data plan was needed for all of the data Joel didn't need and didn't use. This wasn't a new contract along with a subsidized phone. Simply by putting his existing sim card in a used phone he bought elsewhere, this automagically meant he was given a data plan and billed for it. No discussion, no contract, just instant data plan.
After using the iPhone as a dumb phone for all intents & purposes (call, text, no data) for the last 4-5 months or so, I get a text message out of the blue from AT&T that they've detected I'm using a smart phone and that all smart phones require a data plan - never mind that I actually had data turned off. That would be only a little annoying if it was just a notification message, but they went ahead, chose a data plan for me, and started billing me from then on.
"Welcome to AT&T customer service. Now, if you'd kindly go f@*# yourself..."
Image source: CC BY-SA 2.0
Offering customers choices is a good thing. Limiting them is not. Forcing a plan on someone who has no intention of using it and charging them for it is about the best way I can think of to lose a customer. When Runyon contacted AT&T about this, they apparently replied that this was "standard practice," in which case it should probably be "standard practice" to find another carrier.
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Filed Under: data plans, iphones, smart phones, wireless
Companies: at&t
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And this B.S. is why...
Got suckered into that for 2 years, then when AT&T bought out Alltel, I gave them back their phones ASAP and they STILL charged me for the minutes I didn't use.
And all because they said they never got the phones in the first place. =/
BLARGH!
I either use Tracfone or Straight Talk from here on out.
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Re: And this B.S. is why...
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I'd LOVE to have a smart phone from tracfone tho.
But there's none in my area. :(
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Re: And this B.S. is why...
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Re: And this B.S. is why...
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Standard Practice
Though Straight Talk is an AT&T pre-paid MVNO, which means you *should* get the same coverage as an actual AT&T customer by going with them.
This is, sadly, one of the few areas where Europe really kicks our ass in the US...
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Re: Standard Practice
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Re: Standard Practice
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Re: Standard Practice
/s
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Re: Standard Practice
They use the same channels, and you're allowed to have a Smart Phone with No Dataplan (As of December 2012 when I asked them about it)
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Re: Re: Standard Practice
They use the same channels, and you're allowed to have a Smart Phone with No Dataplan (As of December 2012 when I asked them about it)
I realize this discussion is about voice with no data, in which case, yes, T-Mobile uses GSM, which uses the same channels as AT&T.
However, T-Mobile does use different channels, namely 1700 Mhz for data on 3G where AT&T uses 2100Mhz, so this would be the added advantage of going with T-Mobile...if you ever accidentaly the internet, apparently according to folks on the internet, you'd have unlimited access at 2G speeds without the data-plan (though I've never tried so I cannot verify this as I actually use the 3G data.) There was some discussion a while back on one of the mobile phone forums about buying a retired and unlocked AT&T iphone and using a T-Mobile chip in it, and getting 2G without a data plan, and apparently it was working for folks. Don't know if this has changed.
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Re: Standard Practice
Since he is using the iPhone as a Dumb Phone (ie: No Data) he has another company to go to - T-Mobile. They will be happy to give him a SIM for use on their network (the Phone Support is compatible) and I think will not require a Data Plan.
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Yup, happened here too...
Easily fixed, if you call terse and uncomfortable phone calls, non-answers to questions (Q: why? A: smartphones must have a data plan), veiled threats if they didn't grant a credit, and a bunch of my time "easy."
(Aside: This is the same company who doesn't seem to know that my ancient calling plan -- still roams outside of SoCal -- and newer data plan, means that when I'm in roaming-land, I just use my Google Phone to make calls across the data plan to avoid roaming charges. Good for them on that...)
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I would talk to an attorney...
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Re: I would talk to an attorney...
The only way to be consistent here is to charge all smartphones data. There are too many stupid people out there that have no clue how to operate a smartphone and giving people the ability to have a smartphone without a data plan is asking for trouble. As a result, all smartphones get charged data.
Don't forget to blame the manufacturers too. How many Smartphones are available that can only access WiFi? None.
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Re: Re: I would talk to an attorney...
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Re: Re: I would talk to an attorney...
It's fucking thievery. Plain and simple.
AT&T are cunts on too many fronts and are just another knighted corporation given *way* too much leeway.
It's not "your" phone. And it's definitely not "your" money. It's theirs.
Given the power of phones today I should have just as much say so as any PC device including but not limited to locking out and down traffic, connection sources and destinations and disabling device capabilities as well as adding new ones in.
Legalized thievery continues to gain momentum. All hail the knighted thieves.
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Re: Re: Re: I would talk to an attorney...
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It doesn't fall flat at all. Far be it from me to care whether or not you choose to interpret text based entirely upon the existence of uncomfortable to you text.
As if clean text will change the point and ensure that AT&T will concede their theft and remedy their purse controls.
Please.
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Re: Re: I would talk to an attorney...
So, because stupid people exist and it's an occasional bother to cell providers that they exist, this makes outright gouging acceptable? I don't follow the logic.
Umm, what? What should we remember to blame the manufacturers for? The existence of stupid people or the greed of service providers?
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In any case, can I say "class lawsuit imminent"?
Hopefully they lose shitloads of customers because of this idiocy (considering other carriers and the complete lack of competition don't help them).
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NO 'class lawsuit' for you sonny.....
California thought that was unconscionable, but the Supreme Court apparently found that to be just fine by them.
Shortly there after, company after company started adding the 'no class action lawsuits' language to their contracts. Most required you to mail (as in a piece of paper) to a physical address, on magic fairy paper to be delivered on a Feb. 29th that happened to fall on a Sunday, during a full moon (O.K. I made that last part up).
They 'notify you of the change' via email, phone call, click through, etc, but you can _only_ not accept via snail mail.
Remember contracts are only binding on __you__. The company gets to change the terms and condition at their sole discretion _without_ notice to you.
Welcome to the corporatocracy.
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Re: NO 'class lawsuit' for you sonny.....
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Re: Re: NO 'class lawsuit' for you sonny.....
The end result is the same, companies relying on the "AT&T vs Concepcion" decision effectively preempted class action lawsuits from their customers.
Personally I think that arbitration is a perfectly valid option between two companies that negotiate a contract between then, but they should be categorically forbidden in consumer contracts, especially contracts of adhesion.
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Re: NO 'class lawsuit' for you sonny.....
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Re:
Doesn't seem right that they can charge you for something you aren't using. I mean I can understand if you're using the features, but you should have the right to refuse the service.
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Although that would probably get the person who thought this up a raise and a promotion.
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Instantly, I got a data plan enabled. I called immediately and had it disabled but now my wife has been months without any phone of her own on a contract I am stuck with.
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No more att...ever!
What they mean is that you must have THEIR data plan.
I solved the problem by going to t-mobile pay as you go plan.
They have one plan that gives you 1500 minutes but only 30mb of data for $30, no contract.
you still have to have a data plan no matter how you do it but this one is the lesser of the evils.
We need a sopa style uprising directed at the FCC and the white house and then maybe something will be done about this type of extortion.
It's your phone, you paid for it, you should be able to use it as you wish.
Maybe the world needs more smart consumers instead of more smart phones!
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Re: No more att...ever!
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nothing new
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...and ATT is charging a subsidy for a phone they didn't subsidize
I'm not sure how ATT or T-mobile justify ETFs in contracts where there is no subsidy. California law prohibits punitive charges in contracts. The ETF for a phone subsidy is legit if pro-rated because that is an actual damage, but the ETF where no actual damages exist, is not.
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Re: ...and ATT is charging a subsidy for a phone they didn't subsidize
He did (quite underhandedly) get his monthly bill modified without consent to include a data plan he does not want and did not use simply because he changed handsets. He can leave AT&T any time he wants (which would be right now if it were me).
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Re: ...and ATT is charging a subsidy for a phone they didn't subsidize
You put $100 down on the purchase of that new phone and then the rest is paid off through an additional charge on your bill. When you've paid off the pseudo-financed amount the "ETF" goes away. Until then, you still owe the rest of the amount that they loaned you.
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Re: ...and ATT is charging a subsidy for a phone they didn't subsidize
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that's no different from
that's no different from the govt charging you for health care coverage you aren't using.
you can change your carrier, but can you change your govt?
as we see from switching from AT&T to verizon, there actually is no change. same thing in switching from democrats to republicans.
just one of those things you have to suck up, or switch to dumb phones. not sure what the govt equivalent would be.
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Re: that's no different from
Considering the lack of competition in cellular service in the US these days, you need to move out of the country to change either.
no different from the govt charging you for health care coverage you aren't using
Perhaps you are in a different country, but the US does not charge you for healthcare that you aren't using. They actually only charge you for health care for coverage you CANNOT use. If you have money, you pay taxes that cover government-funded health care that can only be used by the people without money. If you do not have money - well, you don't pay any taxes. I'm not saying we should not have taxes going to medical care for the people that cannot afford it, I just wanted to clarify.
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Re: that's no different from
And health insurance in the US is a JOKE. "let's give private entities FREE MONEY!!!"
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Re:
Our system can totally tell if you have data or not - because we have tiered pricing and data caps, so we must have the appropriate monitoring and systems in place to throttle data used, but we saw an opportunity to increase your bill and, well, f*** you.
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AT&T are the scum of the earth. The government broke them up and then, in their infinite wisdom, let them reassemble into an even worse company than they were before. Good job!!!
I say if your too big to fail, you are to big to exist and break all the huge banks and other companies like AT&T, Comcast, Verizon, apart and DON'T let them merge again.
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Thievery but still legal, unfortunately
Pisses me off that a device I paid for is now junk unless I accept services not needed, but VZW has the only decent coverage in my area.
Plain wrong but we're stuck until the FCC enforces a BYOD requirement on the carriers.
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This has happened to me a few times
About three months after she had been using it she found she couldn't send any MMS messages. I saw that the APN wasn't setup correctly so I fixed it and about an hour later I get an email from AT&T stating they noticed her line was using a smartphone and didn't have a data plan so they went ahead and added the 3GB plan. It is worded like they are doing you a favor by adding something that isn't wanted or needed.
I called them and told them to take it off. The woman I talked to insisted that because my wife was using a smartphone that it had to have a data plan. I told her that I had a smartphone exclusion on the line as it was a phone I replaced her old phone with and the data was disabled. She again told me it needed to have a data plan and said that if I didn't want it added again I would have to have data disabled on the line. I had to explain how I disabled the mobile data connection on the phone and even why disabling it on the account wasn't an option. If you disable data on the account itself you cannot send / receive MMS messages.
You don't notice it and it doesn't count against your usage, but MMS uses data. One of times after this that they added data automatically and I had to get it removed was because of the MMS. Through a fault on the side of AT&T I was getting a $2 charge on my wife's line almost every month for less than 500k of data transmitted by MMS. They refused to believe it was their fault and insisted that my wife was using mobile data despite the fact that I had it disabled. It wasn't until the third time THAT happened that I told them to open an internal investigation, and if it happened again I was going to take legal action. I also told them that if they added data to my wife's line again without my consent that I would take action on that too.
I got a call about a week after the last incident with a "technician" telling me it was an issue on their end. Neither issue has happened since. I still check my bill each month to make sure they aren't slipping anything extra in hoping I won't notice.
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Unfortunately, IMEI spoofing is a crime :(
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Re:
Perhaps so, but I wouldn't let that stop me if I had this issue.
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Smartphone Contract
My flip-phone started dying and I had dumpster-dived a Windows smart-phone. Verizon REQUIRED a data-plan just to swap the ph.# to it.
No exceptions.
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Re: Smartphone Contract
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VZ & Sprint do the same..
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"Welcome to AT&T customer service. Now, if you'd kindly go f@*# yourself..."
"Welcome to Dogbert's tech support. How may I abuse you?"
;-)
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Plans
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There are choices out there now.
This phone company is not for everyone you pay for what you use. If you do not use a lot of Data then I think that plan is for you. With three phones I save on average $65 a month over AT&T. With AT&T I had only 1 smart phone and 2 feature phones now I have 3 smart phones.
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I'm still on a 3G cellphone. I refuse to give into AT&T's crappy shared data plans sine you're paying so much for so little. Its ridiculous even with a family to have to monitor something that was never issue before on 3G.
Someone needs to start a petition on Change.org to stop the data caps. And let it be a serious and sustained movement like SOPA. Yet, somehow we let 6 Strikes get through. For each and every win, there is always a worse failure
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Smart phone without a data plan at t-mobile plus a few free gigs every month!!!!!
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Unwanted Data Plans
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Thats redic!! buuutttt i have a solution.
I bought my smartphone, the zte avail, off amazon for cheap and just stuck in my sim from my old non smart phone. And there it is, this should work with all of att go phone plans, just make sure u dont have a contract. My mother did the same thing, she and i use our phones all the time without extra billing, maybe this is because we aren't in a contract? Either way i dont know or care, but for once after reading this article, im glad we didn'tget a contract.
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AT&T fined over unsolicited data plans
http://www.fcc.gov/document/eb-enters-700k-consent-decree-att-inc-regarding-data-charges-0
At first they honored the terms of the decree. When they stopped and then ignored its existence, I ended my long term customer status with them and went elsewhere.
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I filed an FCC complaint against AT&T for this practice
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Filing an FCC complaint
https://esupport.fcc.gov/ccmsforms/form2000.action?form_type=2000B
If you want to save additional time, feel free to use this text:
"AT&T is charging $30 additional monthly fees for connecting a smart phone, even if I am not using *any* more AT&T services than a dumb phone would use. Even if I have data blocked, they force a data usage fee on me. This seems to be the same issue which existed when AT&T was forced to cease charging additional fees when customers added their own equipment to their home phone service. In addition, it discriminates against the underprivileged, unemployed, etc, who could otherwise stay freely "connected" on a smart phone via the ubiquitous public WiFi services -- all without using any AT&T services.
In addition, you can call Tom Burke at AT&T (405-302-2774) to let him know (he is the one that called me in response to my complaint). He told me that "AT&T made an investment in working with the phone manufacturers to get the advanced features to work, so we have a right to charge even if the phone isn't using our services".
Finally, contact your representatives. See
http://www.contactingthecongress.org/
If many people do this, we might see change.
Thanks!!
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Waiting for somebody who can SUE att
I guess.....if lots of people make a single voice. We will win.
Please, anybody, SUE att. Please sue att for forcing us to use data plan.
Why to pay for something that we don't use?
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I filed a complaint to AT&T for exactly this reason (and left for T-Mobile)
My ten year old received a smartphone from his grandmother, in order for him to play games on it.
I called AT&T to add his SIM card, and, at the same time, I asked AT&T to put a data block on the phone, which they duly did.
So now my bill would just be for the phone and text (which is a known amount), since the kid would only have Internet on the phone when at home connected to the wireless WiFi of my home broadband router, which I control.
Do you know what AT&T did?
Two months later, I find out that they ADDED data, without my (explicit) knowledge or permission, to my child's phone plan!
Not only did they add data without asking me, but they also added the MOST EXPENSIVE data plan they had.
After discussing this with AT&T, I found out that, in my contract, they can do that. OK. But why?
I ask them why.
They tell me many times 'to give the customer a consistent bill'. What? A consistent bill? I HAD a consistent bill with the data block.
Now my bill is much higher, paying for a data plan I don't want, and didn't (explicitly) ask for (and, with the data block, I can't even use)!
I then ask AT&T which phones they do that to, and they tell me "smartphones". I ask 'what's a smartphone', to get better clarification, and they couldn't tell me.
Do you know how THEY figure out what a smartphone is?
They maintain an ARBITRARY list of IMEI numbers, and if you put the SIM card in one of those phones, then they immediately add the most expensive data plan.
Whether you want it or not.
What's this list of IMEI numbers?
AT&T won't tell you because, they say, "it's changing all the time". Yeah. I'll bet it is, since it has to be arbitrarily defined since there is no standard specific legal definition of a "smart phone" in the first place.
So I complain to the FCC. The FCC forwards the complaint to AT&T. AT&T calls me. We go in loops with them saying the same thing.
So I drop AT&T and switch the family plan to T-Mobile. Now all my (arbitrarily defined) smart phones and dumb phones work just fine, without data.
Do you know what AT&T tells the FCC?
They told the FCC that "the problem is resolved to the customer's satisfaction".
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Re: I filed a complaint to AT&T for exactly this reason (and left for T-Mobile)
I have never ended a call without the data plan being removed.
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ATT billing
Jurors would be very like minded as cell phones have replaced land lines, which replaced correspondence/stamps and we fought a war over the missuses/contortion of taxation on stamps.
The bill of rights
In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.
Allot of this I feel correlates to the revolutionary war,
What an English King (at&t) has no right to demand, an English ( American) subject has a right to refuse.
It is the principles in which we founded our government.
and revolutionized a country.
Now a monopolizing cell phone company and its taxation of data unused in most cases' impedes us with charges to "use" a device that does "not" require it.
I would love to litigate this in a court room as I am on a family plan and have no official contract however utilize there service TOS gives up your rights to sue I assume.
I could talk them in circles for days.
I will go up in law as.( use not, charge not ) might have duality with rental cars.
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Mobile Data Issues
So i'm now charged for data I can't use and nobody can seem to fix it they just keep saying I should use my upgrade and get a better phone. Has anybody else ran into this situation that can maybe give me tips on how to fix the mobile data issue? The guy today said that it was probably a setting on my phone that was not activated, so basically it is a problem that I have to fix and no instructions on how to fix it. If it helps my phone is a Pantech Burst.
Thank You
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att service
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How I solved this problem
iPod + dumbphone = save big bucks
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Re: How I solved this problem
You know what I meant. =)
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Been There!
AT&T: Hello! How may we help you today?
AT&T: We are currently experiencing very high chat volumes which may cause long delays. An agent will be with you as soon as possible.
Johanna-S: Hello! My name is Johanna-S. How may I help you today?
Me: Hi Johanna
Me: I had cancelled Data a few months ago and I just realized it got put back in
Me: except I never asked for it
Me: AND I have been paying for it now for a few months, apparently, although I was unaware
Johanna-S: Good afternoon. Sorry to know about that, no problem, I can definitely help you with your concern. In order for me to assist you further and make sure to provide the most accurate information to you. May I have your first and last name together with your mobile number?
Me: YEs
Me: Erika xxxxxxxxxxx
Me: 619302xxxx
Me: and I mean I must have cancelled it at least a year ago
Me: as I moved to Mexico and gave the line to my parents who do not use data
Johanna-S: Thank you for that information.
Johanna-S: Please give me 2-3 minutes to further review your account and check for resolution.
Me: thank you
Johanna-S: You are so welcome!
Johanna-S: I appreciate your patience, checking here, we cannot remove the data on your line as the line is using a smartphone and a data plan is required for all smartphone users
Me: the phone is unlocked though
Me: and I initially bought it at a 7-11 on a prepaid phone with no data
Me: i simply gave it to my mother when her phone stopped working
Me: also, I didn't get to choose this data plan.
Me: Why was one chosen for me?
Me: rather than being asked?
Johanna-S: For the data plan, that is automatically being added to a line if no data is added and the data plan being added is based on the usage by the time it was added.
Me: there was no usage
Me: prior to being added
Me: as my parents lines had no data
Me: plan
Me: so how exactly could this have been calculated?
Johanna-S: The data is being assessed if there's a data connectivity being detected by the system, if they check emails, check any social medie websites and even online games, we can remove the data plan for the account if a line is using a basic phone, in that way, we can block data usage and you will not be required to add any data plan
Me: ok I would like the charges reversed
Me: this is ridiculous
Me: they have no apps nothing running on this phone
Me: that uses data
Me: who can I speak to to get this reversed.
Me: I never reconstituted a new agreement with you.
Me: i'm not paying for a service I never agreed to.
Me: I understand I'm sure somewhere in the small print there is a reference to smartphones and data plans but you can't simply choose one for me.
Me: I'd have to sign this agreement and at THE VERY LEAST be informed of it.
Johanna-S: I totally understand the frustration this may have caused. For the automatic adding of the data plan, you can see that on the wireless terms and agreement, for the charge, I understand that you want the charges to be reversed, however, we can only reverse up to the last 3 months of charge for the account
Me: please do so and then cancel my plan.
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