Canadian Schools Ban WiFi Based On Bad Science

from the and-what-are-they-teaching-our-kids dept

Wed, Feb 6th 2013 3:33am — Mike Masnick

A decade ago, we first wrote about some freaked out, clueless parents suing a school district for wanting to install a WiFi network. The parents believed -- based on absolutely no evidence whatsoever -- that WiFi networks emitted "harmful" electro-magnetic radiation. Since then, we've heard of many such stories of people fearing the health impacts of WiFi, despite a near total lack of evidence of any harm at all. Studies have found that an entire year sitting next to a WiFi access point gives you the equivalent radiation of 20 minutes on a mobile phone. And yet, every few years, we hear about parents or politicians freaking out about the issue and trying to get WiFi banned in schools.

Amazingly, they've succeeded in some places, including 12 elementary and middle schools up in Canada, which are now being called out by a group called "Bad Science Watch" for making decisions based on absolutely and totally bogus science. You can read the full report here, in which they call out "anti-WiFi activists" who are "spreading misinformation." It seems they ought to call out schools as well. You would think that places of learning would investigate the actual science.

These claims are not substantiated by the scientific literature and have little acceptance from medical professionals and the scientific community. This activism therefore amounts to nothing more than fear-mongering by misguided special interest groups who are attempting to have these networks removed.

Nevertheless, the media has been all too willing to fan the flames of controversy and has contributed to a growing false uncertainty over the safety of WiFi. As a result many school boards, libraries, and town councils across Canada have been called on by concerned citizens to limit or remove WiFi networks.

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Filed Under: canada, health, scared, wifi

99 Comments

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Ninja (profile), 6 Feb 2013 @ 1:52am

And I thought kids were silly for believing in the bogeyman without any scientific evidence....
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silverscarcat (profile), 6 Feb 2013 @ 2:33am

But Mike...
You need to think of the children!

If you give them free wi-fi then the kids won't have any reason to go to class anymore since they can get all their stuff easily from anywhere.

Now who doesn't want to go to the class with the annoying teacher who always picks on you for no reason?

*Remembers in high school we didn't have wi-fi, we had Lan parties to play Descent until the computer teacher uninstalled it from all computers*

Man, that was some fun matches.
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alanbleiweiss (profile), 6 Feb 2013 @ 2:44am

"Studies have found that an entire year sitting next to a WiFi access point gives you the equivalent radiation of 20 minutes on a mobile phone."

As if that's acceptable ! I've been using cell phones since 1996. And as a result, many years ago I began caring about personal freedom, human rights, and fairness in life. Clearly it was the radiation from those cell phones that fried my brain into thinking this way.

So clearly then, we can draw a direct correlation to the notion that the wifi I've been using for the past year and a half was responsible for even more of my brain being fried, and thus the reason I became a Techdirt insider. Clearly that decision was not rational or logical, so it must have been the fault of the wifi!

Thank God someone's thinking logically enough to save the children!
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alanbleiweiss (profile), 6 Feb 2013 @ 2:48am

Re: But Mike...
"we had Lan parties to play Descent until the computer teacher uninstalled it"

Sadly, I'm much older than you. We had no such things as computers. VCRs had just become fashionable in our school's AV department, although film reels were still all the rage except for special occasions like taping the high school football games.

So I joined the AV club, and became the student in charge, reporting directly to our advisor. Which meant I was free to skip classes, using "has an assignment to operate film equipment" notes.
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Zakida Paul (profile), 6 Feb 2013 @ 3:38am

I wonder how many of these parents buy their kids mobile phones and yet they freak out about WI FI. Do parents lose all capacity for logic when they have children?
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Feb 2013 @ 4:03am

Re:
I blame the politicians myself, they have taught the practice of demagoguery to their citizens by showing that science and evidence have no part in decision making.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Feb 2013 @ 4:07am

This is so ridiculous that I am inclined to believe that the real motive is other and this one is just the only one they could possibly find to not enable Wi-Fi for children.

Which undoubtedly they would use to share their loot...aham...media.
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G Thompson (profile), 6 Feb 2013 @ 4:20am

Re:
I remember a study done a few years (decades) back about Radio waves (HF & UHF) and microwave ovens and the like and its true radiation can cause major deaths. They found out, and I tell you this with the full warning it deserves. IF you sat next to a microwave oven for over 100yrs you will most likely die.

The same study found that anyone who had used the Telephone or Telegraph or that dangfangled Marconi device before 1890 is now dead! Dead I tell you!!! and they mostly withered away and got all wrinkled with loss of hair before they died too.

It's a tragedy. Next I propose an ending to this radiation we are all getting that operates at the dastardly levels of between 380 to 740 nanometres. It not only can cause cancer it burns too!
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Deimal (profile), 6 Feb 2013 @ 4:22am

Re:
Well, how many smart phones are running around in pockets in that school? I can't think of any smart phone that doesn't include WiFi as part of the device. How about the computers? Unless they disable WiFi cards in them, they're constantly searching for networks as well. How about the neighborhood nearby, the local coffee shops. These idiot parents and vastly more idiotic journalists are far more consistently exposed to WiFi on a daily basis then they probably know!
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BS Simon, 6 Feb 2013 @ 4:27am

In related news...
The Administratuon is concidering banning dihydrogen monoxide for the following reasons:

is called "hydroxyl acid", the substance is the major component of acid rain.
contributes to the "greenhouse effect".
may cause severe burns.
is fatal if inhaled.
contributes to the erosion of our natural landscape.
accelerates corrosion and rusting of many metals.
may cause electrical failures and decreased effectiveness of automobile brakes.
has been found in excised tumors of terminal cancer patients.
Despite the danger, dihydrogen monoxide is often used:
as an industrial solvent and coolant.
in nuclear power plants.
in the production of Styrofoam.
as a fire retardant.
in many forms of cruel animal research.
in the distribution of pesticides. Even after washing, produce remains contaminated by this chemical.
as an additive in certain "junk-foods" and other food products.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
G Thompson (profile), 6 Feb 2013 @ 4:34am

Re: In related news...
Oh dear, this bullshit again (and I hope you were being sarcastic in posting this dribble.. otherwise you are an idiot

ok.. for those who don't realise. The chemical formula for is H2O
[ link to this | view in thread ]
G Thompson (profile), 6 Feb 2013 @ 4:36am

Re: Re: In related news...
dammit...

The chemical formula for dihydrogen monoxide is: with di meaning two for the hydrogen and mono meaning one for the Oxygen (oxide) H2O

Most people commonly refer to this dangerous substance that can kill you though you are made up of +70% of it as

WATER!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 6 Feb 2013 @ 4:39am

Re:
You mean that fucking talking snake from the garden of eden?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Rikuo (profile), 6 Feb 2013 @ 4:46am

Re: Re: In related news...
Can't believe you fell for that...excuse me, I'll just be over there feeling embarrassed for both of us.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 6 Feb 2013 @ 4:46am

In the age of "How To's" I want to leave this here.

How to steal others hard work using the DMCA

That was just priceless.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Feb 2013 @ 4:50am

Not to side step the issue, but why is wifi needed in non university level schools? btw, would they be referred to as schools of lower learning?

Maybe it is due to the proliferation of wifi enabled devices which the students are not allowed to have or use while in school. In that case, what do the teachers need wifi for? Furthermore, if it's only the administration staff that need connectivity, then I'm guessing that hard wiring would be less expensive.

Or, perhaps it is the lucrative telecommunications industry calling for towers on school property for which the school district gets a pittance. This would make more sense as to why folks are getting all upset about it.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Feb 2013 @ 4:52am

Re: Re: In related news...
I always thought the whole dihydrogen monoxide thing was meant to be a hoax right from the start. A practical joke meant to cause dumb people to reflexively freak out over the dangers of a substance that is no threat at all just because they don't stop for two seconds and think about what it is. Hell, the nature of the substance is right there in the name: it's water!

So, given this, and the theme of the article, I am pretty sure the other poster meant it as a joke...which you kind of, you know, ruined.
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The Real Michael, 6 Feb 2013 @ 4:54am

I'll bet the record labels and movie studios are jumping for joy after this decision.
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vegetaman (profile), 6 Feb 2013 @ 4:58am

I don't feel so bad for not carrying my cell phone on me all day after reading this, though. I usually put it on the table or leave it in the car.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Feb 2013 @ 5:02am

Re: Re: Re: In related news...
" dangers of a substance that is no threat at all"

Yes, it was a big joke and quite a few lolz were had. but are you positive about that statement? Surely, anything can be dangerous in certain circumstances.

Who claimed that carbon monoxide was not bad for you because it is a naturally occurring gas, was it Michele Bachmann?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
BS Simon (profile), 6 Feb 2013 @ 5:02am

Re: Re: Re: In related news...
Yes, it was a sarcasm based joke.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
BS Simon (profile), 6 Feb 2013 @ 5:05am

Re: Re: Re: Re: In related news...
From: http://www.cdc.gov/homeandrecreationalsafety/water-safety/waterinjuries-factsheet.html

"Every day, about ten people die from unintentional drowning. Of these, two are children aged 14 or younger. Drowning ranks fifth among the leading causes of unintentional injury death in the United States."
[ link to this | view in thread ]
PaulT (profile), 6 Feb 2013 @ 5:09am

Re: Re: In related news...
"ok.. for those who don't realise. The chemical formula for is H2O"

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lpu26ggu641qj1cg2o1_500.jpg

"Oh dear, this bullshit again"

Stop getting wound up about this. The whole thing is intended to be a hoax, a joke to expose people so reactionary about surface level "threats" that they don't even look into what they're getting angry/scared about. As in, you know, people who want to ban wifi without any real evidence of harm.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dihydrogen_monoxide_hoax
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Bengie, 6 Feb 2013 @ 5:18am

Re: Re:
Don't forget about that horrible Dihydrogen Monoxide chemical that is so commonly used and kills thousands every year.

They should at least require someone to be 18 to purchase it.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
miatajim (profile), 6 Feb 2013 @ 5:24am

Information is a great thing, giving it to "dumb" people you get this.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Feb 2013 @ 5:24am

Re: Re:
No, he's definitely real! I've seen Edison's video and stuff!
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Karim, 6 Feb 2013 @ 5:24am

You are so wrong. Here's why.
Mick just hates it whenever copyright law is enforced and Internet is killed real good to prevent DMCA from working where it would not work if there weren't no pirates, and/but for the children. The law is the law.

Last week I had to give my neighbor money for medicine because he works in an industry which has been killed off by Internet Piracy (carwash).

Mick never even bothered to assume the fact that less Wifi in schools means less child porn creation, and more importantly, tornado clients cannot work on No Internet.

Google just wants Mick to pay him money.

**Copyright 2013. Unauthorized reproduction strictly prohibited**
**This comment is protected by RightClickBeGone 2.23 (trial - unlicensed)
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Feb 2013 @ 5:38am

Re: You are so wrong. Here's why.
This is satire - right? .... right??
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Karim, 6 Feb 2013 @ 5:42am

Re: Re: You are so wrong. Here's why.
Yes. I think it makes perfect TrollSense�.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Zakida Paul (profile), 6 Feb 2013 @ 5:52am

Re: Re:
Actually, I blame organised religion for that.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Ninja (profile), 6 Feb 2013 @ 5:59am

Re: Re: Re:
Wait what? U been seeing Edison's snake?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Ninja (profile), 6 Feb 2013 @ 6:04am

Re: Re: Re:
It is said that substance is very wicked. Mind you it is called an universal solvent that can dissolve and carry incredibly dangerous substances into those who make use of this malevolent liquid.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Ninja (profile), 6 Feb 2013 @ 6:04am

Re: Re: Re:
A million times that.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Anonymous Coward, 6 Feb 2013 @ 6:05am

Anyone here a Medical Scientist? No? Ok then.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
OldMugwump (profile), 6 Feb 2013 @ 6:05am

Re: In related news...
Hydroxyl acid may be dangerous, but responsible adults should be able to buy it legally.

Let us compromise.

Instead of banning it, purchasers should have to be over 18, show ID, and sign a register with each purchase. And be limited to 100 mL/day.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
This Anonymous Coward EH!, 6 Feb 2013 @ 6:06am

Re:
"Or, perhaps it is the lucrative telecommunications industry calling for towers on school property for which the school district gets a pittance. This would make more sense as to why folks are getting all upset about it."

Really? No these are wireless networks like we put in our homes that they are freaking about up here.

Next time think before you write something down.

Yes we know the parents up here and a bunch of idiots that believe this. The best is that parents are saying that little Johnny or Suzie have headaches at school because of the wifi, but forget to mention that these Headaches only come on the days they have tests.
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Ninja (profile), 6 Feb 2013 @ 6:09am

Re:
What if I want to have a security system connected via wi-fi in my school? What if the computers used by the staff are connected via wi-fi? What if the classrooms have audiovisual resources that use a central server, via wi-fi, to recover videos, pictures and other learning material?

Wiring WAS cheaper in the past. Today most computers come with built-in wi-fi capabilities. Also, wireless setups make it much easier to move things around and change layouts. The only real reasoning to use wired connections is 1- security and 2- speed.
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Ninja (profile), 6 Feb 2013 @ 6:12am

Re:
Probably not but the article has enough citations. If you are feeling bothered by it why don't you throw in your own citations so we can analyze the methodology employed in the studies you may know that try to prove those waves are really harmful and bring them into the discussion?
[ link to this | view in thread ]
Ninja (profile), 6 Feb 2013 @ 6:14am

Re:
I think he meant 20 minutes using the phone (talking). And possibly with a mobile connection enabled. I keep mine disabled till I need to use it.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
silverscarcat (profile), 6 Feb 2013 @ 6:17am

Re: Re: Re:
Actually some religions teach parents to raise their kids and not rely on others to do so. However, they're quite strict with policies...

*Grew up in such a religion*
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Josef Anvil (profile), 6 Feb 2013 @ 6:17am

Evolution of the species
Keep in mind that natural selection does not favor the most intelligent or useful of the species. The process of evolution favors the individuals that breed most.

We are watching the birth of the Idiocracy.
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Mr. Applegate, 6 Feb 2013 @ 6:26am

Re: Re: Re:
Purchase?

It is forced on everyone from birth. Children are now hooked on it and will die if they don't get their fix of "Dihydrogen Monoxide".

For the children let us ban this illicit "Dihydrogen Monoxide" before even more children become dependent on this substance.
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Mr. Applegate, 6 Feb 2013 @ 6:31am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Sure this is true, but what other things do they teach which defy explanation?
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Some Other AC (profile), 6 Feb 2013 @ 6:43am

Re:
Well in the case of my oldest child, the district where he attends school issues netbooks to Middle school and High school students. As it would be cost prohibitive to install the required network drops in addition to the additional network gear, using a protected WiFi system was the best and most cost effective solution.
I have assisted in projects at my employer to expand office space and install additional network drops and gear. When you factor the hourly rate for the wiring techs, the cost of cabling and accessories, and the network gear to expand the network to accommodate the expansion, adding just 30 cubes can easily run into tens of thousands of dollars.
Now expand that to a multi-room school and you can see that the cost to wire it would easily reach into 6 figures.
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PRMan, 6 Feb 2013 @ 6:43am

Not dangerous?
"WiFi networks emitted "harmful" electro-magnetic radiation"

Wifi networks DO emit harmful electromagnetic radiation. It's in the Microwave band 2.4 GHz, exactly the same as your microwave oven, only (usually, if everyone follows instructions) at a low enough dosage that it doesn't do anything.

Of course, that didn't stop the network guys at my old work who purposely bought mismatched giant antennas for the WiFi router and were literally frying the brain of the receptionist sitting underneath with low-dose microwaves. (Some math from a ham radio operator that worked for us proved why she was feeling light-headed every day since they put it in, it was like a 90 watt microwave oven).
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Feb 2013 @ 7:09am

Re: Re:
Also add in the cost of dropped machines as kids forget to disconnect the network before picking them up. Unlike power connections, cat5 cables are latched into the machine and so do not pull out when they are forgotten.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Feb 2013 @ 7:33am

Mike! You need to remove this story now! Seriously!
If the government comes across this they will possibly take this post as evidence that WiFi is deadly and anyone owning a router is a terrorist.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Feb 2013 @ 7:43am

I bet the RIAA is funding their research.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Feb 2013 @ 7:44am

Re:
the Canadian equivalent that is
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Jeff (profile), 6 Feb 2013 @ 7:45am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
show me on this doll where Mr. Edison's snake touched you...
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Aaron *Head* Moss (profile), 6 Feb 2013 @ 7:47am

Re: In related news...
Thanks. I just found my new Facebook post to "warn" people of "dangerous" things.

LOL
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Feb 2013 @ 7:48am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Yep. It was all nice and wiggly. Sadly, it then reminded me of the MAFIAA, and got all slimy.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Feb 2013 @ 7:49am

Re:
A WiFi network can be create on the spot by anyone, not just a service provider.

Ad-Hoc networks are all WiFi.
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Chad, 6 Feb 2013 @ 8:06am

Studies show...
Over the years there have been many things thought to be good "based on absolutely no evidence whatsoever" which were later proven to be extremely bad (major drugs like heroine and cocaine as well as smoking or giving your child a bit of alcohol to stop their colic, etc).

The real issue isn't that it's good or bad, it's that there is "absolutely no evidence whatsoever". Unfortunately in the case of wifi and other similar technologies that are stirring people's emotions, the complaints are about the long-term effects which we frankly cannot know until it's been a significantly long-term exposure.

One thing you have to keep in mind to remain completely neutral and unbiased on the subject is that there are advocates on BOTH SIDES that have no information or evidence of what they're trying to prove.

I just hope that in 30 years when talking to my kids I can tell them that the technology was a huge advancement instead of a huge health hindrance.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Feb 2013 @ 8:09am

Re: Re:
the Canadian subsidiary, you mean..
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jjmsan, 6 Feb 2013 @ 8:32am

Re:
You may have just found the reason for piracy. Clearly, as the number of cell phones has increased piracy has increased. Maybe we can get a grant from the government to study this>
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PaulT (profile), 6 Feb 2013 @ 8:44am

Re: Studies show...
"One thing you have to keep in mind to remain completely neutral and unbiased on the subject is that there are advocates on BOTH SIDES that have no information or evidence of what they're trying to prove. "

Indeed. However, if somebody's going to start banning things "for the children" based on zero evidence (and while there is certainly evidence that access to it *benefits* their education), I'd prefer to demand proof. Rolling over just because someone thinks there might be harmful effects is as wrong as merely letting people ban vaccines, videogames, movies, TVs, books, music or whatever else the current nutjob scapegoat of the week is.

The call for banning things just because there's a fear about them, especially from those who don't understand them, will never stop. Only the target of that call will change. But, it's down to them to prove that the ill effects outweigh the benefits. While those things you mentioned do seem obviously bad in hindsight, that's just a matter of perspective. There are many other things that have mostly positive effects that were called to be banned over the same timescale, and that same hindsight shows them up for the stupidity that those calls were.

People should keep an open mind, but these things should only be happening when there's a real reason to believe that they are harmful. Until then, you're probably basing any ban on baseless fears from people who usually don't understand the thing they're talking about.
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a_w_young, 6 Feb 2013 @ 9:04am

WiFi is bad because it's WiFi, not because of "health concerns"
I think the real crime is in making kids use inferior connections. WiFi isn't bad because of some hocus-pocus health issue, it's bad because it's wireless. Get faster, more stable, more secure internet for our children in schools. WiFi is improper for professional purposes in a fixed location.
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Byte, 6 Feb 2013 @ 9:23am

Facts
The only danger to a broadcast signal is its strength. Doesn't matter if the signal is 900mhz, 10mhz, 100ghz. If no signal is broadcasted at a frequency, guess what? The universe is broadcasting at that frequency! There's noise on every band known to mankind. Natual noise. But when you broadcast on a frequency, you have to boost your signal to be higher than the noise [an reed-solomon, qpsk, etc. help assure signals].

POINT IS-- The danger to a signal is related to HOW CLOSE you are to the broadcast element (stength, not frequency, is what you have to fear). Like with cell phones, if it's right up against your head you're bombarding your cells with high signal... just like breaking up a stone in your kidney with ultalow wave lengths. But step a distance away and the signal degrades... becomes harmless.

Dr. B
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Feb 2013 @ 10:03am

Re: Facts
Unless I am much mistaken, simply not true. Some frequencies are more dangerous than others. If the frequency is "non-ionizing" it is probably safer at the same energy density than "ionizing" radiation. (gamma-/x-rays are more harmful than long-wave radio?). Similarly among the non-ionizing frequencies, ones that excite the h-o bond in water (at or close to the resonant frequency or a multiple thereof) are more harmful that ones that don't, because they couple better with living organic material and transfer more energy, so can cook the recipient at a lower energy density. This is, as I understand it, fairly basic and well-established science.
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silverscarcat (profile), 6 Feb 2013 @ 10:13am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Other than what's in the bible?

But, then again, it is true that humans used to be a lot more badass several thousand years ago.

Even if humans didn't live nearly as long as they do these days.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Feb 2013 @ 11:19am

Re: Not dangerous?
Wifi networks DO emit harmful electromagnetic radiation. [...] only at a low enough dosage that it doesn't do anything.

Umm - wouldn't that mean it's *not* harmful? You know, like if it doesn't "do anything", then (by definition) isn't causing HARM, and therefor is not HARMful.

Microwave radiation just causes heat - heat in and of itself isn't harmful - every house in Canada has a furnace that produces *way* more heat than any Wifi device could put out in a year.

it was like a 90 watt microwave oven

90 watts isn't an "oven" - 90 watts is barely a lightbulb. If she was feeling lightheaded, it wasn't because of a 90 watt transmitter near her.
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Renkluaf, 6 Feb 2013 @ 12:29pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: In related news...
Ah...think you mean carbon dioxide. And, yes, you exhale it every time you breathe.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
John Fenderson (profile), 6 Feb 2013 @ 12:55pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: In related news...
Not only that, but it's poisonous. You can (and people have) drink enough of it to kill you.
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John Fenderson (profile), 6 Feb 2013 @ 12:57pm

Re:
Are you? No? Ok then.
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John Fenderson (profile), 6 Feb 2013 @ 1:04pm

Re: Not dangerous?
You know what "mismatched" (whatever that means in this context) antennae can't do? Add power to the radio signal. They can only shape it. So, you're saying that the total power output of that WiFi installation was at least 90 watts.

That's pretty high. I hope they had an FCC license for it, because they take that sort of thing pretty seriously.

literally frying the brain of the receptionist sitting underneath with low-dose microwaves.

No, it wasn't. "Literally frying" would be that the receptionists brain was actually being cooked at temperatures that would cause it to sizzle. Low-dose microwaves wouldn't be able to do anything other than a slight warming.

That entire anecdote sounds incredibly implausible. It's far more likely that the ransom ham radio operator's math was wrong.

If there was really a concern, why didn't somebody rent a meter and directly measure the amount of power in the emissions?
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Qyiet (profile), 6 Feb 2013 @ 2:24pm

Re: Not dangerous?
The difference in energy release from a microwave and the energy by a human body is 10 DBm. So to go from harmful (putting your hand in a microwave) to harmless (touching another person) that's a good baseline on an exponential scale.

Now the difference between standing in a wifi zone, and a microwave is ~60DBm. To put it another way, the person standing next to you is emitting the same amount of energy as just over 3000 laptops wifi. If you afraid of wifi, you should be deathly afraid of other people.

Numbers came from here.. any math was my fault :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DBm#Unit_conversions
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Bergman (profile), 6 Feb 2013 @ 2:33pm

The electrical wiring in the walls produces electro-magnetic radiation. So does your phone, your stereo, your TV and your iPod. So do the power lines outside your house.

So does the sun.
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Jeffrey Nonken (profile), 6 Feb 2013 @ 4:07pm

Fetch my tinfoil hat!
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Jeffrey Nonken (profile), 6 Feb 2013 @ 4:18pm

Re:
So do human bodies. Fortunately they're pretty weak, so all you have to do to remain safe is NEVER GET CLOSE TO ANOTHER HUMAN BEING. Or any animal.

And for God's sake, don't wear clothes, the friction just might generate static electricity. If you do wear clothes, don't move!

Petting your cat is just asking for trouble!

Remember, everything gives you cancer.
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ltlw0lf (profile), 6 Feb 2013 @ 4:30pm

Re: Re: Re:
Don't forget about that horrible Dihydrogen Monoxide chemical that is so commonly used and kills thousands every year.

It kills thousands every year directly. It is, however, present in large quantities in every person that dies, so it has become quite a problem in our groundwater supplies.
[ link to this | view in thread ]
ltlw0lf (profile), 6 Feb 2013 @ 4:55pm

Re: Evolution of the species
The process of evolution favors the individuals that breed most.

Evolution did favor individuals that were most intelligent and useful, as they didn't tend to get themselves killed off before they could procreate. Which is why we are here. We have removed those pressures, which has reduced the need for intelligence and usefulness in order to survive and breed.

We have created the birth of Idiocracy, not evolution. I suspect the problem with Idiocracy is that at some time between now and its fruition, we will lose the ability to keep those pressures removed; they will reintroduce themselves and the process will begin anew (or, we'll evolve in another, more productive direction.)
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Feb 2013 @ 4:57pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Supposedly they lived for a thousand years back then, the earth is only a six thousand years old and they lived alongside the dinosaurs. Amazing times those must've been - amazing times.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Feb 2013 @ 5:01pm

Re: Re:
"Next time think before you write something down."

Yes ma'am - will do ... I'm sure the industry experts are not influencing decisions about such things up there.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Feb 2013 @ 5:02pm

Re: Re:
What if .....
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Feb 2013 @ 5:07pm

Re: Re:
The question was why, not how. I realize there are school districts handing out wifi enabled devices like candy ... some districts use them to spy upon the kids eating candy and changing clothes in their rooms at home. Many schools have told the kids to not bing or not use their electronic devices of any kind - they must be missing put on the obvious benefits.
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Anonymous Coward, 6 Feb 2013 @ 5:11pm

Re: Evolution of the species
"natural selection does not favor the most intelligent or useful of the species"

This is perhaps the wrong way to look at it.
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Derek Kerton (profile), 7 Feb 2013 @ 2:34am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
I heard it was also linked to Acid Rain, with a high probability of being the #1 cause.
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silverscarcat (profile), 7 Feb 2013 @ 1:39pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
I thought only one person lived nearly 1000 years (957 actually), most lived to be around 500 to 700 or so, humans have only been on the planet for 6000 years or so and nothing about dinosaurs from what I remember.

But, seriously, there are accounts of people back then doing some amazingly crazy things. Where do you think the term "marathon" comes from? From the guy who ran across Greece in less than a day non-stop, over the mountains, across rivers, etc to deliver one message.

Today we think of that stuff as impossible, but, think about it, we have technology to make our lives easier, and yet, people back then built the pyramids and other monuments and scientists today are still trying to figure it out.

Today you're strong if you can lift your own body weight. Back then children apparently could rip the jaws off of a donkey with relative ease.
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Matthew Cline (profile), 7 Feb 2013 @ 9:18pm

Re:
The electrical wiring in the walls produces electro-magnetic radiation.
Oh, the same people who worry over WiFi already have that covered. Just google "dirty electricity".
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Art Tricque, 8 Feb 2013 @ 6:39pm

Re: Not dangerous?
They bought 27 db parabolic antennas for your router? That makes no sense for an office�
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Feb 2013 @ 12:19pm

it's more a fear of liability that 'bad science',

I also do not agree that decisions are based on 'bad science' I do not believe that is such a thing, it is in fact good science, that determined the harmful effects of electromagnetic radiation, it is 'bad politics' to use good science for the wrong reasons.

yes, you can compare it to some time on a cellular phone, but it would be far better to equate it with a period of time standing in sunshine..

middle of the day you receive 1200 watts per meter square, a wifi would be microwatts.. millions of times less that 1 second in the sun.
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peter, 11 Feb 2013 @ 3:54am

Re: Not dangerous?
Hmmm. With your scientific reasoning, lack of technical knowledge and your gift of the hyperbole you should have no trouble getting a job at a Canadian school.
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Anonymous Coward, 11 Feb 2013 @ 4:26am

Re: Studies show...
"advocates on BOTH SIDES that have no information or evidence"

Wrong. There have been many studies by scientific, medical and health organisations to gather evidence.

Look up the reports produced by the UK HPA, the National Cancer Institute SEER programme the Interphone study, the CEFALO study, the FDA, the CDC and the FAA.

You will find evidence produced by studying hundreds of thousands of phone users
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peter, 11 Feb 2013 @ 8:52am

Re: Re: Studies show...
FAA>>FCC. Oops.
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Lyle Courtsal, 16 Feb 2013 @ 4:12pm

you are the idiots, hahahahahaha-hahahahaha
Yes folks, it's true. There is actually serious damage being done to brains and genetic material above 2 milliwatts/sq. cm., especially to young developing children. They're growing so mutations can definitely creep in, but all you wonks care about is no dropped calls. Try hardwire lines then. Gawd, I hate americans; yes, it does damage, and yes it can be reduced, but not removed. It's about energy and how it damages genetic material, which it does. Not only that, above certain energy levels, your ears ring massively if you are sensitive to it.
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Joe Wargo, 18 Feb 2013 @ 12:54pm

Wireless safety
Being an integrator in the wireless industry the topic of safety comes up quit often. It becomes a point of education to those that do not understand what RF really is and is not. There is too much junk on the internet that is misleading and inaccurate.
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streamingchurchesonline (profile), 28 Mar 2013 @ 1:44pm

Wireless? Is it safe?
We will know more in 10 to 20 years. I think there is some truth to possible health issues. I still think we need more studies for cell phones and wireless routers to see what the long term health effects are.
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M. Callahan, 11 May 2013 @ 7:47pm

A bunch of no-brain air suckers...
I have never seen such and long list of lemmings blathering about their no brain idiocy. Science that doesn't get read, doesn't exist in the monkey pack. Google a phrase, why don't you; the Google mind will be magic for you guys. Try EMF as a class 2 carcinogen- that ought to lengthen this thread by about 50 'missing links' screeching about the biggest word in their book.... pseudoscience... Wow. You guys are soooo smart! You say such full-of-important things! I wonder why anyone in the International Agency for the Research on Cancer ever read a $10,000,000 grant by any guy with a Ph.D? I'll bet you guys will tell me what Ph.D means! What kind of stupid label is that? Why waste a dime on a degree to tell us what to do? Gee, I wish all you smart guys were around when I signed up for Nuclear Engineering. I coulda saved some money.... you're all so smart, with your microwave oven jokes- I don't get it! Why would a guy sit by an oven for a 100 years... is that funny?
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Devid Conway, 25 Jun 2013 @ 10:37am

Aw, this was a certainly nice post. In thought I would like to put in writing like this furthermore - taking time and actual effort to make a particularly fine article?- but what can I say?- I procrastinate alot and by no indicates seem to obtain something completed.
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ijpelaar, 27 Aug 2013 @ 5:44am

wifi transponder Ruckus wireless.
Hi

I am from holland, I have a nabure who has a wifi antenna on his roof who do deliver 12000 milliwatts max, and sinds this antenna recides there I have trouble with health, I am kwown to be electro sensitive, I have moved here because of gsm radiaton, I was sick 5 years back and here a clean place did make me healthy again, unfortanely my nabure has now again a magnetron on his roof, I believe however that the unnatural signals in the microwave transmitter are the major cause of the problems, digital signals looks to much on body language like brain signals interfere with it.

We need to stop with this terrible dangereus experiment.

Aned never buy a ruckus wireless, she do make dangereus strong signals, the nabure has a child of 2 years olds, it is complete freaken out sometimes, so she don,t want go in the house, she yells terrible and go lay down on the street, this kid sleeps 4 meters from that antenna, I sleep also 4 moters from it, but now in the livingroom because I did go also get to sick because of lack of sleep and pulsing in the head.

regards

kees
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ijpelaar, 27 Aug 2013 @ 5:55am

Re:
Hi

I think the dirty modulation is the cause of the radiation sickness like i have, or people has heavy metal poisening like fillings without there knowledge, this heavy metal thing should have be investigated , like mercury, lead, cadmium, who react on microwaves special mudulated with pulses.

Pulses in the microwave is nat natural, natural waves are sinusoidal, always, digital signals looks to much as brain waves, special the very low ones, for example in the dect, I can not call with a dect, special the first types, I do fall down.

We have to go cable, or very low wattages like less then 1 milliwatts, and more little transmitters like in modems of every home, then we keep it under the trigger level, but the best is cable, like glass.

anyway,, I sleep in the livingroom to excape the 12 watts ruckus of the nabure who is capable of have a working distance of 15 km.

regards

kees
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Cheryl Khan, 11 Apr 2014 @ 3:22pm

Study on the effects of wifi on plants
I read about wifi harming trees somewhere in the UK. They found that trees in urban areas were developing a silvery decay on the bark. It's kind of scary if you think about it.

http://www.patioproductions.com/blog/gardens/is-wi-fi-killing-your-plants/

Although I haven't tossed out my router just yet (hope I don't have to), one has to wonder if this has any truth behind it. There was also another study where routers killed seeds. If that happens to plants, I'm sure it could be causing adverse health affects on humans.
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Linda, 14 Jan 2015 @ 4:56am

wifi study
Just wondering if you've kept up with the latest research, and if you plan to update your article...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertszczerba/2015/01/13/study-suggests-wi-fi-exposure-more-d angerous-to-kids-than-previously-thought/

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2213879X1 4000583

http://www.networkworld.com/article/2466509/wireless/is-wifi-killing-us-slowly.html
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PaulT (profile), 14 Jan 2015 @ 5:37am

Re: Study on the effects of wifi on plants
Nice of you to spam your own blog link here, though you could have been more honest about it.

At a quick perusal, you seem to have based almost everything on a 3rd party account of a high school experiment (read: not conducted under laboratory conditions) that took place in Denmark, along with a barely correlated claim of similar effects on trees.

A quick Google search will show you a breakdown of the common complaints on the first point. For example:

http://www.pepijnvanerp.nl/2013/05/danish-school-experiment-with-wifi-routers-and-garden-cre ss-good-example-of-bad-science/

Generally speaking, it's an interesting high school science class experiment, but not something that's proven. The methodology is poorly set out by profession standards, there's no blind tests and the study itself seems to have been prone to bias from the outset. I can't see any direct responses to the debunking outside of the usual "scientific conspiracy" and "you can't question them because they're kids" claptrap.

At best, this to take away from this is "we should get some proper research into this kind of thing (which has been happening for years), not "wifi kills plants".

Unless there's research under proper laboratory conditions you're aware of, of course? If this has never been proven - why? Are you in the "there's a conspiracy" camp, or open to more realistic reasons? Have you even researched this at all, given that much of the debunking predates your blog entry?

"Although I haven't tossed out my router just yet (hope I don't have to)"

I wish more people spreading bad science would do just this.

"one has to wonder if this has any truth behind it."

Yeah, yeah, you're "asking questions". Well done on using that particular clickbait tactic on your blog.

"If that happens to plants, I'm sure it could be causing adverse health affects on humans."

Or, it could be having no effect at all. Or, they interact with their environment differently so the comparison is meaningless. You wouldn't expect plants to interact with sunlight in the same way as humans, so why do you assume another part of the electromagnetic spectrum has equal results?

That's what proper scientific research is for, not third hand translated accounts of a claim made by children.
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PaulT (profile), 14 Jan 2015 @ 5:53am

Re: wifi study
Is that you again Cheryl? If not, weird how 2 people suddenly found this article at the same time after being dormant for 18 months. Strange, huh?

Anyway, I read your links, and you're rather dishonest aren't you? The first article links to both of the other 2 links, so there's only one study to look at (not plural, unless you have some genuine alternative links). It doesn't matter how much circular commentary you post, there's still only one thing being referred to.

On top of that, the Science Direct link is not the "latest research", it's a review/report posted in 2014 referring to older research.

Where is the new research you claimed?
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Linda, 15 Jan 2015 @ 6:19am

response
Hi there. Honestly, I was just posting the links I ran across yesterday morning that reminded me of your previous post.

I saw the first link on the Drudge Report early in the am, and I included the other links that were indeed links from w/in the article itself, not trying to be misleading.

I am a mom of 2 in Texas, by no means an expert on anything. I had no notion that there were any potential dangers with wi-fi until until some time ago I came across some videos by Barrie Trower. That prompted me to do some more research, and I actually came across your post back then and bookmarked it. I try very hard to find info on both sides of any issue I'm researching, especially if it's beyond my expertise.

Forbes being a reputable site, I felt pretty comfortable taking the article as a sort of shift in the mainstream thinking that wi-fi is completely harmless. I guess the main takeaway from my limited knowledge on the health effects of wi-fi is that there is some potential danger to young girls and pregnant women, based on what seems like sound information. As a mom, I take that danger seriously. I don't promote not using wi-fi or taking any extreme actions, but if there are ways to make it safer in schools, especially since national standards require all public schools to vastly expand wi-fi in the next few years, it's something we should all take seriously.

http://www.networkworld.com/article/2458948/cisco-subnet/considerations-for-wi-fi-deployments-in-k-1 2-education-settings.html
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Josh, 14 Dec 2016 @ 2:21pm

wireless
I know is an old thread but I have information to add. I have had sensitivities to wireless for many years. Have spent the last 5 years researching and experimenting on myself to find out what aspect of the signal is causing my health problems. The main thing I found out is that I get sick instantly from wireless in Canada but not in the U.S.A.. From that information I learned it is not the power of the signals/radiation causing the health issues. So safety code 6 is not useful in this case. I believe it has to do with the pulse repetition frequency of the signals. I have come to that conclusion because I do get eyestrain from computer monitors where the pulse width modulation causes the screen to flicker. The symptoms from using a device on wifi and cellular in Canada produces a similar affect. I believe in America the pulsing rate of the signals for wireless is probably at a faster rate or higher frequency. There is no debate on whether the wifi in Canada is harmful to some people. That is a fact.
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Super Moist, 17 Apr 2017 @ 10:25am

Re: Re: In related news...
I'd like to congratulate you on your super beautiful head. I've been looking at your head for my entire English class (I'm in 10th grade) and let me just say, I just know that my high school experience from now on will be greatly benefitted. Thank you and God bless.
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