Police In Ferguson Sign Court Agreement Promising Not To Interfere With Media... Then Go Threaten And Arrest Media
from the because-who-cares dept
We've been writing about the efforts by the police in Ferguson, Missouri to intimidate and arrest reporters trying to cover the protests and the police (over)reaction there. What's now come out is that, last Friday, the police actually signed a court agreement promising not to interfere with the media:Parties acknowledge and agree that the media and members of the public have a right to record public events without abridgement unless it obstructs the activity or threatens the safety of others, or physically interferes with the ability of law enforcement officers to perform their duties.This was based on a lawsuit brought by Mustafa Hussein, the reporter for radio station KARG (Argus Radio) who got some attention last night after a police officer yelled at him to "get the fuck out of here or you're going to get shelled with this" while pointing some sort of weapon at him:
And those kinds of activities are continuing today. Here's an Instagram video of a Getty photographer, Scott Olson, being arrested. Olson, if you don't know, is the guy who has photographed many of the most iconic images of what's happening in Ferguson, including this astounding shot. Here are a few more Olson images, courtesy of Getty's recent embedding program:
And here's a video of police threatening CNN's Don Lemon -- which I've now seen, but for reasons that I don't understand, the video seems to disappear at times (as does the embed code).
No matter what, it seems pretty clear that police are continuing to stamp on the rights of just about everyone, including those with cameras and microphones (so you can just imagine how they're handling those without such things). The fact that there's a signed court agreement promising not to do this doesn't seem to matter to anyone.
Thank you for reading this Techdirt post. With so many things competing for everyone’s attention these days, we really appreciate you giving us your time. We work hard every day to put quality content out there for our community.
Techdirt is one of the few remaining truly independent media outlets. We do not have a giant corporation behind us, and we rely heavily on our community to support us, in an age when advertisers are increasingly uninterested in sponsoring small, independent sites — especially a site like ours that is unwilling to pull punches in its reporting and analysis.
While other websites have resorted to paywalls, registration requirements, and increasingly annoying/intrusive advertising, we have always kept Techdirt open and available to anyone. But in order to continue doing so, we need your support. We offer a variety of ways for our readers to support us, from direct donations to special subscriptions and cool merchandise — and every little bit helps. Thank you.
–The Techdirt Team
Filed Under: ferguson, free speech, journalists, media, missouri, press, scott olson
Reader Comments
Subscribe: RSS
View by: Time | Thread
What I mean, exactly, is perhaps firing every single officer and head of law enforcement in the city. It would be an extreme measure, but if the police are the ones disturbing the peace, getting rid of them all and hiring new ones from, say, the ranks of the peaceful protestors would go a long way towards restoring the peace. It would fix one of the main problems and get some cool heads in that are ready to fix the other big problem: police militarization.
Something similar to this happened in the country of Georgia in 2004. The police force was effectively disbanded via mass firings and about three months of peace followed.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Now there is also the problem of people coming in to riot and loot, most of which are apparently outsiders. But the local police just keep egging things along and making it worse. I would imagine the Governor's about had it with them.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Oh, you mean all those thugs ARE the police? And the unarmed people are the protesters and media personnel?
Wow, that's fucked up...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
That right has already been violated there.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Loopholes big enough to drive armored trucks through
Given police have argued in the past, successfully at times, that simply watching or videotaping them both constitutes a 'threat', and 'interferes with the ability of law enforcement officers to perform their duties', the 'promise' is completely worthless, and can be discarded at their whim.
Apparently police are much like sub-atomic particles, where simply observing them is enough to force them to change their behavior, so obviously recording them is 'interfering' with their duties. /s
On a semi-related note, are they still pretending that the various arrests of reporters is 'accidental', or have they finally started admitting that it's entirely on purpose?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Loopholes big enough to drive armored trucks through
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Loopholes big enough to drive armored trucks through
(Press complies.)
"OMG! You're all standing on a bullseye! You must disperse immediately."
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Loopholes big enough to drive armored trucks through
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Loopholes big enough to drive armored trucks through
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Loopholes big enough to drive armored trucks through
It's the Heisenberg Authority Principle: observation of authority alters the behavior of authority, therefore observation of authority is usurpation of authority, hence treason.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Loopholes big enough to drive armored trucks through
Well, it appears that when being observed, individual officers' morality meters kick in, preventing them from behaving in the manner requested of them by their superiors. So it really IS quantum.
On a related note, I was flying through O'Hare back when the shoe bomber episode happened. Everything was lined with young National Guardsmen, most of whom looked to be totally freaked out to be in a situation where a bomb could go off at any moment, and their assault rifles would be useless. At the time, I figured that it wouldn't have taken much to push that situation over into something much worse than what Ferguson is currently experiencing.
As soon as we dehumanize people (whether it be individual police officers or the general public), many of the societal checks and balances that keep us functioning as a group start to break down. I hope all sides in the current situation take a moment to think about this.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
You put cameras on the cops and the cruisers, make sure it can't be accessed by the cops on the beat, and suddenly there is far less beatings, shootings, and belligerence from the police force. Or so it has worked out in most places that have tried it.
Here is one place that doesn't want accountability. Detaining the news reporters (even if it isn't called arrest and amounts to the same thing) is an attempt to keep what is happening out of the public's attention. As long as there are cell phones with cameras that isn't going to work. All it does is show the cops for what they are, bullies with no intention of following the law, except where it advances their cause.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Not sure what they are but given the average Ferguson cop's willingness to beat/threaten/harass/injure unarmed teenagers I wouldn't put it past them
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Not even equal in the police
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
What a riot.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
The shield is on the guy's right arm, while the others are using it on the left arm.
The guy is probably left-handed, and the shield is meant for right-handed people.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
This "agreement"... so what?
It's not an agreement not to do things, merely an agreement as to the rights of parties involved. This paper is great for show, but of very little legal effect.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: This "agreement"... so what?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
"missing" video
Real videos don't disappear.
Now I have no idea why the purported video is allegedly on some unheard of random other site ... but it isn't.
E
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: "missing" video
Now I have no idea why the purported video is allegedly on some unheard of random other site ... but it isn't.
Just because you've never heard of a site doesn't mean it's not popular.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Yeah, they should be sending the feds and national guard in. But what they should do when they get there is disarm and arrest the entire Ferguson police force.
This is a police riot.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Then it went down hill. People started throwing things at the police. People stopped marching and started to congregate and block the road and stop the lawful and peaceful protest and replace it with another standoff. At that point, the police went back to the same tactics as before, geared up, and those in the protest who seek confrontation got exactly what they want.
Community leaders in Ferguson need to understand that they are getting played big time by people who seek confrontation and seek to goad the police into taking action. Instead, the community leaders are speaking big on TV and doing nothing to solve the issues. Shouldn't these protests happen during the day, in controlled situations, less likely to be turned into trolling matches?
Too many people in that community appear unwilling to point out the bad actors and have them dealt with. That tolerance and tacit support of their actions is what really causes the ongoing problems here.
Remember, the police didn't loot any stores. They didn't burn any buildings down. They didn't rip up road signs and try to use them for weapons. They didn't try to lead people into darker areas to shoot at them (which seems to be the case tonight, with a group of protesters leading police into a side street that turned into a reported shooting.
The police are over doing in a very big way, but like dancing, it takes two to tango. The community needs to realize that none of this is helping, and to back away to find more civilized and controlled ways to express their anger without giving the trolls a chance to take over the agenda.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
The "takes two to tango" line particularly leaps out at me though because it's one that's echoed around a lot of public schools. And it's not really true either. It takes only one person to start a fight. It takes two people to make it a fair fight. Trying to find blame in both parties like that is something you do when you don't care about the situation and just want to shut it down, which leaves things open for the situation to return, possibly worse than before.
It's also worth noting that the protestors aren't the ones doing the burning and looting. Those ne'er-do-wells comprise a third faction separate from the police and protestors.
You're also forgetting how the highway patrol diffused the situation in less than a day. When the police re-entered the equation, things went downhill again.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
Finding blame in both parties is only showing that you cannot fix things without fixes on both sides. There are things that can be done within the police to make it better, and there are things to be done by the community to make it better too.
A fight with only one side is like the sound of one hand clapping (in all of it's meanings). The police out on the street with absolutely nobody there wouldn't be news. The people peacefully walking down the street and holding a candlelight vigil for their fallen friend would not be an issue.
There are a certain group of people who are interested in causing conflict, baiting police into action, and generally using the community and their protests as a cover for their more aggressive agenda. The community needs to realize they are getting played, and move away from it and find a more constructive way to protest and make their voices heard.
As for the highway patrol, that was a very well played part of the process of making the local police look bad. The one day off was a way of saying "see, look!", but really, it just seems like the bad actors with the agenda just took the night off.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
Also, a fight with only one side is called a massacre. The sound of one hand clapping is the sound of someone's palm colliding with someone else's cheek. I mean, c'mon, you realize that this all started when the police murdered an unarmed boy by shooting him six times, right? And that they've done everything possible to keep the truth from getting out and the protestors started protesting cause they were sick of being lied to and feeling threatened among other things, right? That alone makes your arguments invalid. This is the apex of something that's been building up for a long, long time.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
I sure do. Protest in front of the town hall. Go to where the event happened and have a memorial. Work on healing the community. Organize a group to go to the state capital to work on getting changes in the police force. FILE CHARGES WITH THE STATE POLICE for abuse if you have a provable case. Get lawyers who work pro-bono to take cases against the police force to create change.
Looting and rioting does not create change. It creates hardship for the innocent property and shop owners who lose everything, it takes jobs and money out of the community, and it perpetuates the problems that already exist.
a fight with only one side is called a massacre.
not if the other side isn't there. If everyone was home, do you honestly think the police could "harm" them? Do you think the police would go door to door, knock and enter and dump tear gas in just to say they did their jobs?
you realize that this all started when the police murdered an unarmed boy by shooting him six times, right?
We don't know that. We know a young man (not a boy) about to start college got into an altercation with a police officer, who felt (justified or not) that deadly force was required. We don't know that it's murder, that is still speculation. yes, he is dead and that is very sad, but on a site where people yell "due process" all the time, don't you think the officer also deserves that same due process and not a rush to judgement? Or does that only apply when you are sympathetic to the defendant?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA. Good one pal. We both know the police will react likewise regardless.
Work on healing the community.
The Occupy protests (specially the WallStreet one) were doing it. There were even activities for children and a collective effort to bring food and hygiene for everybody camped. I guess this is what kept the police from going mad even though there have been incidents with cops and cops on horses at some points. Granted it didn't escalate as Ferguson.
FILE CHARGES WITH THE STATE POLICE for abuse if you have a provable case.
Where have you been in the last few years? The Government doesn't care. And even if they do fill such charges they still have the CONSTITUTIONAL right to protest.
Looting and rioting does not create change.
Indeed, that's why the protests were peaceful. The rioting started when police escalated things. The looting has nothing to do with the protests, it's about a bunch of opportunists.
If everyone was home, do you honestly think the police could "harm" them?
Oh yeah, a protest where everybody remains in their home. Sounds like a successful protest to me indeed. Moron.
We don't know that.
Then why isn't the police being transparent and clarifying things? And even so, the people STILL HAVE THE RIGHT TO PROTEST even if things weren't known. But in the end YOU are pretending it's not known yet but most facts point against the cop in this case.
yes, he is dead and that is very sad, but on a site where people yell "due process" all the time, don't you think the officer also deserves that same due process and not a rush to judgement? Or does that only apply when you are sympathetic to the defendant?
For an obnoxious moron you actually said something good. Good thing you also agree that the crowd has the Constitutional right to protest wherever they fucking want.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
I do kinda like your protest suggestions, except they don't seem feasible when the game is rigged to keep you from winning. That's the kind of situation Ferguson is in now. When the rule makers reveal that their rules are untrustworthy, that's when anything goes, for better or for worse. When a government proves abusive of basic rights, it is the duty of the people to alter or abolish it.
If everyone was home, do you honestly think the police could "harm" them? Do you think the police would go door to door, knock and enter and dump tear gas in just to say they did their jobs?
Uh... YES. Yes, I do. At this point, I would not be surprised if the police tried doing that. They've consistently been the instigators throughout all this.
I mean, cripes, the coroner's report pretty much confirmed what everyone already suspected. C'mon, dude, you seriously sound like you can't be bothered to do your research here. Talking about about due process is all well and good, except the officer who allegedly did it has been sent away on paid vacation instead of being asked to provide an explanation. What kind of due process is that?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
I guess you didn't bother to understand the two groups are not one and the same.
Nor did you bother to inform yourself that the former is in a number of cases protecting businesses from the latter.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/16/ferguson-protesters-guard-stores_n_5684042.html
But I guess doing so would kinda negate everything you're saying and trying to put a spin on. That being that people are protesting as they are legally allowed to do and doing so in a civilized way without looting. But there are people who are not protesting at all, who are looting. And again, you seem to want to lump the latter in with the former and then wag your finger at the former for those doing the latter and you're justifying brutal tactics and behavior on the part of the police for what's happening on the part of the latter.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
I do very much. But it's also clear that the protesters are being used as cover for those who seek to create mayhem. They are sort of being used as human shields, and that is what makes this many times worse than it could be. As I said at the top:
There are a certain group of people who are interested in causing conflict, baiting police into action, and generally using the community and their protests as a cover for their more aggressive agenda. The community needs to realize they are getting played, and move away from it and find a more constructive way to protest and make their voices heard.
They are getting played.
So perhaps if you paid attention and read, you would understand that I am not putting spin on it, but you seem to be trying very hard to bait me by entirely misrepresenting everything I post. please stop.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
I paid attention and read, and it seems clear to me that you are spinning as hard as anybody about all this.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
In one protest some dudes linked with the infamous Black Blocks (I'm not discussing here if they are right or wrong) tried to cause damage to the city hall where the protesters gathered. The people actually set up a human rope to protect the building. Same happened with the municipal theater. At another when the vandals started acting people sat down (it was told via social media to do it so the real criminals would be exposed to the police). Despite this the police just shoot everybody. Later they caught one or two of the vandals and several innocent people along them (some were arrested for carrying goddamn vinegar in case of teargas, a defense against the police). There's no news of the looters being arrested (though a few did return the stolen goods out of shame after the public started criticizing the opportunists).
A good police force would be arresting those caught looting and just went along with the protest on standby in case something that required their intervention worried. And again, all interventions should be targeted. Firing rubber bullets and teargas at will is not how you deal with things.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Pro tip for you. When you call someone a moron and insult them, they generally don't read the rest of what you write.
As for the rest of your story, that's nice. That isn't however what is happening here. at most you have a church leader or a concerned citizen tut-tutting as these places are looted. People are firing guns and generally being idiots.
A good police force would be arresting those caught looting and just went along with the protest
Good citizens wouldn't loot and wouldn't give cover to looters - this situation has the people knowingly and willingly giving cover to those who seek to destroy everything. Yes, a few are calling them out, but you notice nobody is naming names, putting up looter pictures on twitter or instagram, and stuff like that. They have plenty of time for pictures of the "militarized police" but no time for those who destroy the town.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
the Police have been granted a certain legal authority, but that is not enough to do the job they need public legitmacy and moral authority, these can only be 'Earned', by treating people decently and behaving correctly. finally police operate in a legal framework that grant them powers beyond a mere civilian, and it is reasonable that members of the police are to be held to account for actions they do, If an action of a member of the police results in the death of a member of the public, their action better be beyond reproach, lest it damages the standing of the rest of the police. and yes, with the powers granted to the police, they need to prove all the time that that members of the police has not been corrupted by these powers of authority over citizens.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
And when people had the audacity to complain, to ask that the police officer be treated as any other citizen (arrested, questioned) the police decided to counter the uppity citizens by equipping themselves with assault rifles, armour, APCs, fucking ARTILLERY (I've seen video and pictures of an APC/MRAP with a multi-tube mortar firing 7 or 8 tear-gas canisters - 40mm projectiles). They're nearly as well-armed as an army light infantry company.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
I wish that I had your certainty of the way things are. Seems just as likely for the moment that the officer fired in self defense against someone who assaulted him, tried to take his gun, and was coming back for more.
The rest of your post points out the problem. You are concentrating on the what (they got guns, big guns!) and forgetting that perhaps that it's not a question of people complaining, but HOW they are complaining. When you file a complaint by looting a liquor store and burning down a convenience store, perhaps there is a bigger issue at play.
(oh, and for those who will go on about me being pro authority, I agree that the police are way over the line here... but I can also see how they got there, and it's doesn't reflect well on them OR the citizens who have goaded them into it).
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
The excessive militarisation of the police is a huge issue for the police as well, and that has played a part in the problems demonstrated by the police in Ferguson.
Note that I am not arguing in favour of those malicious actors on both sides of this divide; they can go die in a fog of teargas. I'm arguing that the treatment of the free press has been nothing short of fascist, something that many people in the USAF have been willing to lay down thier lives for.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Running Away?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Running Away?
/s
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Yet anytime the same argument is presented about the police, you flip/flop.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
No flip flop - both need to call out the bad actors.
(nice troll bait, do you throw bottles at police too for fun?)
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
Remember what you said once? "If you can't change them because the majority of people don't want to change them, then you might want to consider it's you that needs changing." Considering that the majority of people here have noticed your tendencies to pander to the police, it's likely you're the one with the issues.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
Considering that the majority of people here have noticed your tendencies to pander to the police, it's likely you're the one with the issues.
Yes, my comment is towards a majority of people, not in regards to a small subset of syncopates and yes men. Stinky bait, I won't bite any harder than that.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Ok, ok. So you just support police with severe myopia. Better?
I don't have a problem with people filming the police unless they are getting up in their face and pretty much impeding the police in their job.
Which isn't what usually happens. Of course your definition of impeding the police in their job can be based on filming from miles instead of feet.
Some of the video from these last few days show camera people jumping in front of officers to take a snap or make a video, even when it is clearly not a good time.
SOME people. Most did not. I wonder if Al Jazeera was too close when the cops fired at them.
Yes, my comment is towards a majority of people, not in regards to a small subset of syncopates and yes men. Stinky bait, I won't bite any harder than that.
Ah, hypocrisy at it's finest.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
I won't give you the time of day.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
He's not wrong. You consider filming the police in a way that clearly shows them overstepping to be impeding whatever it is they're doing.
If you consider pointing out your failings as insulting and trolling, small wonder there's no point engaging you in anything.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Are you a freetard?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
perhaps you will notice, there is no exception for: But excepting when we slide into a full-on police state and armed mercenaries just feel like cracking some skulls, because MOTHERFUCKIN' EAGLES, bitchez...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
I've been to protests, both peaceful and not, and thus what I am saying is from pure personal experience. In one of the violent protests the people in the front line were walking peacefully chanting and carrying banners when they were confronted by a good cop. The cop told them the police needed to know what would be happening, where they would be heading and stuff like that to which the crowd at the front told the cop they'd follow the police instructions and cooperate but they'd keep blocking the streets because 1- it was a protest and 2- there were over 50 thousand people so there wasn't enough space. I was like half a kilometer behind it and a few friends who were at the front told me how it happened. The protest was on for over an hour already without any incident.
The cop told them he'd speak with his superior and reach them back so people stopped and waited. A few minutes later heavily armored cops came and started shooting rubber bullets and teargas. Things went hellish very quick, the bullets broke a few glass doors here and there and chaos was installed. That's when the looters came in. They were not participating in the protest in anyway but they seized the opportunity of the chaos and the already broken, destroyed things to escalate things and profit. The cops shot teargas inside shops, bars and even a hospital where protesters took shelter. A hospital.
The mainstream media reported everything as "Vandals loot and destroy private property in a protest". The protest was against Govt corruption (no mention), it started very peacefully (no mention) and the police was at fault for the violence (no mention). But in the age of Internet information flys high and fast and people were generally outraged. Facebook was bustling with things from the protest and evidence from police violence and the original story from the front crowd leaked with videos from the interaction between that good cop and the people. That cop was praised for his attitude.
A few days later a new protest was scheduled and over 300 thousand participated (official count) there are estimated numbers up to a million. Due to the huge public outrage the Govt told the police to stay out of it. I saw almost no police officers that day and yet everything went smoothly. The only incident was some loots near the protest end that took place away from the main crowds (it split in two at some point).
So, my obnoxious moron, you should stop with your bullshitting. Your comment would be reasonable back when the riots just happened and the info was still blurry and cloudy but now that a lot of info has surfaced outside the mainstream media that confirms the facts it's about time you stopped it.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
**information flies high
Typing furiously is detrimental to good grammar it seems heh
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
If the police start getting wise to the 2nd level of documentation, go for a 3rd with high altitude blimps with sufficient power to capture details of both scenes.
You eventually want a spider web of documentation from audio recording on the protesters themselves, to as much video as is possible. The police have enormous resources that can be used to make up evidence of "crimes" but with our own evidence, we can invalidate their lies. People who despise truth are not serving in our best interests.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
Yeah, I'm sure the protestors in Ferguson MO have access to that.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
The same way Free Speech Zones defeat the purpose of Free Speech.
If the police say "Protest over here" so they can control the situation, protesters should go exactly anywhere else. That is the nature of a protest.
You forget that the people are protesting the actions of the police force (killing of an unarmed man; subsequent cover-up like activities; failure to release any meaningful information; etc). If they are protesting the police, why should they listen to them?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Do High, Young Man
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Do High, Young Man
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Do High, Young Man
Paging Lon Horiuchi, Lon Horiuchi to the lobby please...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Do High, Young Man
Better to stay on the ground, make sure the cops know it's a camera. Not much safer, but a little.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Do High, Young Man
Stand slightly back from the window with the lights off in the room and they won't see you at night. During the day you may want the window closed, which does present some difficulty but it can be overcome.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Do High, Young Man
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Do High, Young Man
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
What's with all the running around in packs and pointing your guns at everything in sight? Makes them look like a bunch of scared little kids who don't even know how to behave and are all the more dangerous for it.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
a young black kid walking down the street with a air gun, or water gun, or cordless drill, or cell phone, or fucking nothing at all is an INFINITELY DANGEROUS threat to society and its completely understandable -perhaps regrettable- that he was blown up by pearl-clutching kops...
but armed goons roaming the streets with weapons meant for war, threatening EVERYONE they are SUPPOSED to 'protect and serve' ? ? ?
the new normal...
whatever defends it, must be double plus good...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Yes. It is. You also don't point a weapon at ANYTHING unless you've thought about what you're going to hit when you miss...which you will.
The police in Ferguson are completely out of control and are going to murder more people if someone doesn't remove them from the situation permanently. Because even if this crisis quiets down, six months or ten months from now, they'll kill another unarmed black man execution-style -- because they can. And they know it.
The cop who murdered Michael Brown in cold blood is probably going to get away with it. The police have had plenty of time to destroy evidence, plant fake evidence, and everything else needed to ensure that. That can't be helped now. But what CAN be helped is the next incident, which is completely avoidable if and only if the Ferguson PD is disbanded.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
a black man was traveling on a local highway, got off at the ferguson exit by mistake, and it was raining so hard, he decided to sit in his car for a while until it slacked off...
before he knew what hit him, one of ferguson's finest drags him out of his car and throws him the back of their cruiser and off to jail... apparently NO MENTION of why he was being treated like this... as it turns out, his name was SIMILAR to a person there was an outstanding warrant for their arrest, and when superkop ran the plates, assumed this was the perp, and went into robokop mode...
they take him to the station -and if i recall correctly- KNOW that it is a case of mistaken identity, BUT STILL is arrested and insist he has to get in the cell, nigger...
guy bitches about getting in an already occupied one-person cell with no other bed (3am in the morning), so they go full-pig on him, and get 4 or so to slam him into the cell/wall, and proceed to cuff him and beat the shit out of him...
when they beat him so bad they have to take him to the hospital, they *THEN* arrest him for some bullshit 'defiling property' charge of the four 'peace officers', which amounted to them saying the perp had gotten blood on their uniforms...
THEY BEAT THE SHIT OUT OF HIM, then arrest him for getting blood on them... i believe that is the very definition of chutzpah...
now, the topper is, the guy had enough balls to file suit after the fact (i bet only 1 out of a thousand dare to do so), and it came out in trial/testimony that the piggies actually admitted there was no blood on their unis...
...and OF COURSE they get away with that bullshit ! ! !
THAT is the flavor of piggy in ferguson, well, EVERYWHERE...
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
But here's the thing: the Army sent them guns. The Army didn't send them "advisors" (which would be Army Rangers, in a foreign mission) to teach them how to use them. I guess the Army made the mistake of assuming - incorrectly - a bunch of redneck cops in Missouri knew how to handle a gun. And I say this as someone living in the woods in Alabama - even the complete rednecks I know, who often can't spell any word over 5 letters, know enough gun safety that they wouldn't pull this crap.
I mean, seriously, nobody, and I mean NOBODY in the US Army would ever do shit like this. Gun raised means 100% ready to fire, last chance before they blow your ass away. A raised rifle is not the universal symbol for "stop what you're doing." It's the universal symbol for "make your peace in the time it takes this round to fly through the air." That the cops in Ferguson don't understand this is more than enough reason why they shouldn't have these weapons in the first place.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
the Victim
No determination was found for residue on the clothes. the body of the slain was returned to the family, but the police kept his clothes.
Coming back to that powder residue either the young man was at some distance from that 'police-man' when he fired (which is the police narrative) or some evidence is on that young man's clothes indicating he was much closer to the weapon discharge.
Standard training doctrine is to train police to aim & fire their guns at the torso, the theory is to make sure you hit something, no head-shots, you might miss, and/or you might need to question the suspect/crazy/perpetrator later, after they have been subdued.
It is easy to imagine the pain from the first four bullets would have made the young man compliant and overwhelm that young man's resistance which begs the question, why the double-tap, execution style.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: the Victim
Now, moving on, I have a few issues with your comments:
When the first private Autopsy was done the report was no residue from the firearm propellant on the body, Six Bullets in the victim, the last two in the head, that sounds like a double tap.
None of the autopsy results released suggest the order of the wounds. How could they? As far as a "double-tap", SWAT training in my home town taught officers to squeeze the trigger twice when firing, depending on the training of the officer, he may have fired twice simply out of muscle memory.
Coming back to that powder residue either the young man was at some distance from that 'police-man' when he fired (which is the police narrative) or some evidence is on that young man's clothes indicating he was much closer to the weapon discharge.
If he was within a few feet of the officer, there would be GSR on his clothes and all exposed skin. Unless his body was washed, he was probably a significant distance away when shot.
Standard training doctrine is to train police to aim & fire their guns at the torso, the theory is to make sure you hit something, no head-shots
Not all training. We do not know what training this officer received.
It is easy to imagine the pain from the first four bullets would have made the young man compliant and overwhelm that young man's resistance which begs the question, why the double-tap, execution style.
Again, we have no idea what order the wounds happened in and if he was "executed". This kind of talk only escalates the situation.
6 shots at an unarmed suspect seems excessive to me, but until there has been an actual investigation, we really do not know much. I think it is important that a REAL investigation takes place, but your conclusions are premature.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: the Victim
If the claim - and as best I can tell, it's horse crap - is that this kid just robbed a store, but did so without a weapon, and was then walking (or running) away UNARMED, then why the hell didn't the cop simply TAZE HIM??? Is this not EXACTLY what cops carry tazers for? For immobilizing potential threats who do not have lethal weapons on them? This is so much the precise use case for a tazer, it's practically in the company brochure!
And instead? 6 bullets. For all my complaining that the cops are over-zealous, if they had just tazed the kid, none of this would be happening. And there is less than ZERO good reason why they didn't.
Unless you want to tell me the police department with body armor, riot shields, assault rifles, tanks, and enough tear gas to drown an entire football stadium doesn't carry something as common and basic among police as a tazer?!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
http://gawker.com/ferguson-police-try-to-shut-down-don-lemons-live-broadc-1623567619
Imagine what Ferguson thugs are doing to people where there ain't no cameras.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Although personally I think that this would more turn into a kind of civil war. Because that's what normally happens in most other countries when armed police confronts armed civilians.
But then again America is special.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
I'm not very optimistic that it would turn out any better in America, of all places - and even more so if gun nuts are the ones that start the revolution in the first place because in the Ukraine it's bad enough when the gun nuts took over later.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Accountability
I understand that tensions are high, but there really isn't any excuse for restricting the press.
THAT SAID... I've seen some accounts of the more liberal media deliberately trying to taunt the police into doing something that gives them headlines.
That's the media's fault - REPORT the news... don't try to MAKE the news.
Still, it could be handled MUCH better than it is.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
It's all part of the government's war on whistleblowers
/sarc
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: It's all part of the government's war on whistleblowers
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
in times like this
-
Fox 29 Philadelphia just ran a "news" piece last night and that is the first I am hearing of it in the MSM in this area. No mention of the local police needed to be replaced by State police... not a word. I guess something like that isn't Faux "News" worthy.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
The video that can't (always) be watched
The first video result was at Medialite (http://www.mediaite.com/tv/watch-cops-physically-push-cnns-don-lemon-during-tense-ferguson-protest/ ). Just scroll down a bit if you can't see it at Vine.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Does anyone else report all of his posts the moment you see his name?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Unless Whatever is lying about him being married.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
But many of us did it because his points were so predictably authoritarian that you knew with 99% certainty that you'd want to report it after reading it. Shill.
Don't worry, I still read you shit. I just want to let everyone know I hate you and your opinions.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
Therefore you cannot claim censorship when someone else refuse to carry you speech in a publication that they control, or allow people to vote to hide whatever it is that you said. That is free speech rights do not include a right to demand that others listen to you, or provide the means of making your speech available to other people at their expense.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
OOTB made no sense at all (generally). This guy reminds me more of average_joe.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
I find that Whatever is his own worst enemy. If you let him speak freely, he tends to counter his own arguments and show his bias. Most of the trolls that have come and gone are the same.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Not me. Very, very few of his posts are report-worthy.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Not to Interfere Agreement
Didn't the FBI and State Patrol come rushing in to take over from the "local amateurs" whose army-like presence was fomenting violence, only to have those great incoming professionals, led with great fanfare by crack Black State Trooper, call in the real military, the national guard to restore order? So the problem is the Ferguson Police Force? Good night they've long since ceased running the show. Does the media on site not even know this much?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Not to Interfere Agreement
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
On an unrelated note...
No idea the truth of it, but it's an interesting thought, people driving in to participate in (or instigate) a riot.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/08/19/im-a-cop-if-you-dont-want-to-get-hu rt-dont-challenge-me/?hpid=z10
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
"Even though it might sound harsh and impolitic, here is the bottom line: if you don’t want to get shot, tased, pepper-sprayed, struck with a baton or thrown to the ground, just do what I tell you."
" And you don’t have to submit to an illegal stop or search. You can refuse consent to search your car or home. "
Hm, no conflict there huh?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Interesting that "nonlethal" is in parentheses here.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
But I digress. Now the question remains on how do we get tthis situation to end? Surely an international ally won't get involved in American internal conflicts. But can the UN?
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Abraham Lincoln
First Inaugural Address
Monday, March 4, 1861
And to think it all started in a little town called Ferguson, Missouri.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
Abraham Lincoln
First Inaugural Address
Monday, March 4, 1861
=======================
Sadly, he was talking about the United States of America, a place that died as a nation on the infamous date 9/11, when the government - in a secret session - in preparation for a corporate take-over, decided to secretly declare war on the world at large, and especially its own people, using terrorism as the public "reason" for its fascist war-measures actions and reactions.
Because Terrorists!!!!
The USA would better be described today as Americo Inc..
All of the actions taken by the government-in-power, are 100% legal entirely due to the fact that they are functioning under the War Measures Act and can thus re-interpret all laws as the need arises.
All civilians are thus stripped of rights and can be placed under arrest and held without trial, and without due cause, and incarcerated in secret cells here in the US or elsewhere, as the need arises, because the government-in-power is secretly at war.
The War Measures Act was invoked secretly because the enemy is the public and the government-in-power did not want to forewarn the enemy, or cause it to retaliate by letting it know it was under attack.
The government-in-power realizes that it is outnumbered a million to one and that even the military might change sides if it were to become aware of the truth.
The War Measures Act allows the government to act with complete immunity to law and without the need to explain its actions or decisions to the public or the courts, regardless of what those actions might be - including the assassination of Americans and Foreigners, on foreign and domestic soil by remote controlled bombs.
Ferguson is simply a Shock Test. A controlled test scenario that will let the government-in-power know what is needed for future assaults on other towns and point out the necessary restrictions that need to be in place to allow such assaults to run unhindered.
These tests have been taking place for some time now, but the need of the Elite to take over the country and enjoy the fruits of their labors is increasing as they get older and so the process is being escalated.
Part of this process will be the ending of Net Neutrality which will allow them to put an end to public communications via the web. All invading armies must first control the media in order to occupy the conquered land successfully.
Or did y'all think that the government-in-power was arming the police across the nation in order to prepare for an invasion by aliens from Mars?
There is but one reason to arm your police in the manner of an army, and that is to wage war on the general public. The public has already been reclassified as the adversary.
That should tell you just who the war is being waged against.
When the cat is finally let out of the bag, the government-in-power expects a massive public rebellion and so is merrily preparing the police as the first wave of defenses.
But fret not. Should you still be doubtful that the government-in-power has its sights set on you as the enemy, all you need to do is sit and watch tv and go to work and pretty soon, you'll be heading to work and run face first into the forces of fascist law occupying your town.
Armed to the teeth and with a license to kill. You.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re:
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
Not to mention at least some of that does make sense or match up with available evidence.
The government does consider the public the enemy, and does believe itself above the public, answerable only to itself, if that.
Arming the police with military-level gear guarantees it will be used against the public, as this mess has shown.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re:
Blind rats sometimes get the cheese, and broken watch is still accurate twice a day. Neither is really a good indicator.
The "government is spying on you" thing is as old as the hills. Anyone who has grown up in the US pretty much can figure out that someone is watching, at least a bit. If you didn't think they were watching, at least a bit, then you are incredibly naive. It's also insanely ignorant to think that since technology makes it so easy to obtain information on people, that the government agencies wouldn't be there doing exactly the same thing.
Oh, did you catch the "german government listens in on Hillary Clinton" story last week? That one didn't get any play here because it would take the wind out of a lot of people's sails. Guess what? EVERY GOVERNMENT DOES IT.
So conspiracy theorists are right because they already knew what the rest of you were denying, that it happens, has happened, and will continue to happen - everywhere in the world.
The government does consider the public the enemy
No, that is your opinion, not fact. Oh, and they do answer to the people, who seem foolishly intent on re-electing the same cast of congress critters for decades at a time. You the people speak out of both sides of you mouth, I think!
Arming the police with military-level gear guarantees it will be used against the public,
By that logic, a man with a gun will certainly kill someone, so the police have some work to do. Don't you dare pick up a syringe, you will guaranteed turn into a heroin addict!
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Yeah I know, how silly of me and others to expect that agencies who are supposed to be focusing on external issues and/or threats, and in fact are not meant to have anything to do with domestic issues, might abuse their power and spy on the public in the country on a massive scale. /s
Also, 'it's easy, so of course they're going to do it', there's this little thing called 'self-restraint', where even if you can do something, even if it's easy to do something, you can still not do it. And when that something is 'violate the privacy and rights of massive numbers of your own citizens, for essentially zero gain', that 'self-control' thing is rather important.
Guess what? EVERY GOVERNMENT DOES IT.
'Spies on foreign politicians and high-placed officials'? Absolutely, and other than some fake outrage when it gets discovered, for the most part such spying is seen as pretty standard and accepted. However, 'performs massive spying efforts against their own citizens'? Not so much, and people are very right to be concerned about such activities.
By that logic, a man with a gun will certainly kill someone, so the police have some work to do. Don't you dare pick up a syringe, you will guaranteed turn into a heroin addict!
So, if they're not going to use the stuff, why ask for it? In fact, why fight so hard to get it? Crime rates have been going down for a good while now, so why exactly do they need military level gear again?
And, as a matter of fact, according to the very act/bill that 'gives' police forces all their shiny toys, they do have to use them, unless they want to lose them(thanks to zip for finding this tid-bit).
j. Utilization of Property
Property received through the 1033 Program must be placed into use within one year of receipt and utilized for a minimum of 18 months unless its condition renders it unusable. If property is not placed in use within one year of receipt, it must be transferred to another authorized agency, or returned to a DRMO [Defense Reutilization and Marketing Office - i.e., the Feds].
source: https://www.ok.gov/dcs/searchdocs/app/manage_documents.php?att_id=10800
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re: Re: Re:
I am curious though, as to why you would think that government needs to literally wage a secret war against people who, like me, simply offer plausible explanations for the draconian and deceitful practices of the government and big business and organized crime.
After all, if they have nothing to hide.... :)
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Why would you make the sharing of culture harder? Now I'll find another site, share that instead. No, not just the photo, the full page, and won't be sending traffic here again because of this annoyance.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
Re:
I think you can blame Getty for that, not TechDirt.
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Prisoner_population_rate_world_2012_map.png
[ link to this | view in chronology ]
[ link to this | view in chronology ]