Cops Decide Running Surprise School Shooter Drill During Class At A Middle School Is A Great Idea
from the practicing-trauma dept
We're going to have to go over this again: if your drills to prevent school tragedy actually leave school children traumatized, then don't do those damned drills. What began with terrorism drills on school buses and then devolved into unannounced school-shooting drills is getting to be so full-on crazy that I sort of can't believe that anyone thinks any of this is a good idea. The latest story involves police running an unannounced "active shooter drill" at a local middle school while classes were in session. As a part of this insane exercise, police officers went around bursting into classrooms filled with terrified students, weapons out, as they acted out their fun little thespian experience of horror. And, to add insult to injury, school officials notified parents of the drill long after unknowing students were informing their parents that an actual shooting was taking place at the school.
According to Fox affiliate WTVT, officials at Jewett Middle Academy e-mailed parents to inform them of the drill, after it took place. By that point, WTVT reports, cellphones were already filling up with texts from frightened students, who thought there was a real shooter in the school.Were the parents supposed to be part of this drill as well? Otherwise, exactly what was the point of sending terrified parents barreling towards the school to see exactly what the hell was going on? You'd think school officials must be issuing one hell of a mea culpa, right? Of course not. Realism is the key, yo.
“Unfortunately, no one gets an advanced notice of real life emergencies,” Polk County Public Schools spokesman Jason Gearey said in an e-mailed statement to The Washington Post. “We don’t want students to be scared, but we need them to be safe.”And you can see his point. But why stop at school shootings? If terrifying students is done in the name of preparing them for terrifying, if not in any way likely events, why not prepare them for tragedies much more likely to occur? Why not tell kids every once in a while that their parents are dead, just to get them used to the eventual occurrence? Or, hey, maybe just burst into their rooms while they're sleeping occasionally and scream, "You probably won't be nearly as successful as you think you will!" and then run away, just to get them used to the disappointment of life. I mean, they'll have to face hardship at times, so why not get them ready for that hardship by making them face fake hardship?
What's that? You're saying that way of thinking is crazy-pants? As crazy as, say, the police admitting that the officers in this drill were using real firearms with live ammo?
Stacy Ray told WTVT that she received a text from her seventh-grade daughter Lauren Marionneaux after two armed officers burst into her classroom.Winter Haven police told The Post that one of the officers had his duty firearm – a handgun – drawn. The gun was loaded, as required. The other officer was carrying an unloaded AR-15. According to Ray, one of her other children texted: “I thought he was going to shoot me.”Get used to it little girl. After all, there's a tiny, basically insignificant and certainly not growing likelihood that you'll have to face this situation for real some day. Totally justifies terrifying our children, right?
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Filed Under: drill, middle school, police, school shooting
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Tsc. Law enforcement incompetence is at an all-times high it seems.
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I love zombieland.
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Dodged a bullet there...
I am so glad I made it through the schooling system before idiots like that became involved, using that logic a 'fire drill' would have involved literally setting the school on fire. Without telling the teachers ahead of time, 'because you can't know when a disaster might strike!' /s
Also, they really need to plan their ridiculous excuses more in advance. Claiming that the drill was about keeping the kids safe in one statement, then admitting that the drill involved real guns, with live ammunition in them in another statement... yeah, gotta say, the first thing I think of when I hear 'loaded gun pointed at students' is not 'safety'(well, other than perhaps 'I sure hope they trained those brain-dead fools how to use the safety on a gun'...)
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Re: Dodged a bullet there...
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That's brilliant! "Crap. These kids aren't awake yet, and I want a smoke break. Fire drill!"
I can't wait to try this on adults. Thanks!
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In all honesty, it is one of the memories of that school that will stick with me. It did actually teach us not to panic in a fire situation and obviously was effective because I remember it well over 20 years later!
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And yet people are shocked, SHOCKED that law enforcement actively rejects applicants who's intelligence is too high. You get what you fucking pay.
Also, were they wearing body cameras?
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They are:
1. Always assume the firearm is loaded. (I think it's pretty obvious that this one was violated. No responsible person would charge into a school with a loaded rifle during school hours unless there was a damned good reason, in my opinion)
2. Do not cover anything with the muzzle that you do not intend to destroy. (Again, pretty obvious that this was violated.)
3. Finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire. (This is, unfortunately, commonly violated by shooters of all stripes, including police officers.)
4. Know your target and what 7s behing it. (Once more, pretty obvious. If any of the officer's firearms would have discharged, it would be unlikely that they were pointed in a safe direction, and the day would likely end in tragedy.)
I just cannot see the benefit to taking such a large risk on the point of the police. I cant fathom why the decision was made to have such a drill during school hours, and without informing the community to boot!
The local police held a similar drill kast week near where I live. The difference was that the drill was held after hours, and only after the building was cleared of all extraneous personnel and secured. They also would do drills in a similar manner in the school district I attended growuing up (though that was some time ago). To me, that is a reasonable balance between the training needs of the officers, the requirement of providing a safe and constructive learning environment for the students, engagement with the community, and commonsense safety precautions.
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Since it's police, the hero probably would be jailed for life.
So really, not only are we teaching students that police invasions are likely, but to be subservient to the attacker.
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I'd like to see the responses from the people who say all teachers should be armed. Like you said, what if one of these armed teachers shot at the police? Would it still be a "drill" or would the police now be reacting to a real shooter- the teacher?
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Of course, they should have never dared to do so even without armed teachers.
My personal take is that armed teachers is one of the better ways to stop a school shooting spree, but that school shooting sprees are so fucking rare that it's not worth it.
But hell, let's consider an alternate hypothetical, which is that one of the kids might be dealing drugs on the side and have a handgun stashed in his backpack for that reason. Notwithstanding that the kid is committing several crimes by doing so, in the moment of an active shooter situation he'd be justified in trying to take out said active shooter.
By the same token someone would be justified in trying to drop a cinder block on an active shooter from a higher floor, or hitting them with a fire extinguisher, or any other number of lethal possibilities.
Running unannounced "we are trying to murder you" drills is a good way to end up with big problems.
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Really? Let's keep in mind one simple fact: if there are armed teachers at a school, people will know. And more importantly, the students will know. Even if they aren't told which teachers are armed, they'll know that they're there, and someone's eventually going to find out the details.
That being true, which is more likely?
1) That an armed teacher would be able to stop a school shooting spree (which is, by definition, a premeditated act, since the kid had to acquire the gun and bring it to school beforehand) with the shooter forewarned that there are armed teachers around.
or 2) That a non-premeditated angry dispute could escalate into a tragedy when some disgruntled, overly hormonal kid steals a teacher's gun.
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Protip: You can solve most of your problems without shooting at them if you just exercise a bit of common sense.
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Be glad they didn't send in a shooter in advance
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Re: Be glad they didn't send in a shooter in advance
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Every single one of those officers are lucky they didn't pull a trigger, because the lawsuits that are going to stem from this would be even worse if a child had been shot (or even killed).
Nobody involved with putting on this shitshow of a drill—including the people who allowed it to happen and approved of it happening—should walk away from this unscathed. This was not a drill; this was a debacle that deserves to be a black mark on their entire lives.
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How is it possible that they weren't all INSTANTLY fired?
Why haven't they been forced to apologize to those children and teachers and parents? And to grovel before them on their knees while begging for forgiveness?
Why hasn't that police department been shut down?
Why aren't there state and federal investigations in progress?
What the hell kind of an insane country is it that doesn't shut this crap down instantly?
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2. AND apparently reluctantly agreed that live ammo might not have been super smart ('cause of all you sissy-babies), BUT they will DEFINITELY be running these surprise terrorizing drills in the future...
3. my thing is, since you are about 8-10 times more likely to be killed by a fucking pig than a fucking terrorist; maybe we should have some actual terrorists storm the school to simulate an out-of-control pig attack...
idiots
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I think the best result here would be for everyone on the school board to be voted out and whoever is responsible for this fiasco in the police department should be fired.
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Holding an exercise, which if first reported by the kids will lead to parents panicking and rushing to the school, and not notifying them is negligence of the highest order. That some parents would rush to the school when kids start reporting to them that there are men with guns running about the school, is something that is should have come up when the risk assessment was carried out for the exercise. Also it should be obvious to the meanest intelligence, that the parents rushing to the school are going to be at higher risk of a traffic accident, because of they are distracted by their panic.
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Risk Assesment? What Risk Assesment?
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Objection. Counsel is assuming facts not in evidence.
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Boy, i should really think about suspecting that random dude/dudette in front of me /s
Divide and conquer, lets not unite together as individuals with EQUAL rights now, you hear
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Nursing homes too. Filled with weak and vulnerable people. Brilliant.
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The threat of terrorism has turned the protectors into the terrorists. Will they ever see it? If they do, will it also be too late?
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Good for the pupils
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Real guns...
What changed over the last 40 years?
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Re: Real guns...
Apparently, a severe decline in people's IQ and or reasoning capacity.
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As the younger generation ages they will fear the cops more than criminals, where might that end up?
Hopefully the parents find a good lawyer. This is not the first time idiots with badges played out a silly scenario at a school, what happened as a result of that CF?
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That's a feature, not a bug. Stunts like this are meant to instill fear in people, with the idea that a fearful populace will be an orderly, obedient one.
The cops just haven't quite thought through what will happen(and it will happen at the rate they are increasing their terrorizing and brutalizing of the public) when the fear reaches the tipping point, and people collectively see the police as threats, not protectors.
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Using the fear of a vague threat of violence to get policy or public opinion moving in a direction is terrorism.
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The rare good reason...
Someone else asked, what would have happened, had some would-be hero gotten one of the cops' guns and turned it on the cop.
My understanding is, those kinds of so-called cops don't generally wear visible badges or ID. So, consider the quick-thinking teacher who sees armed intruders and manages to kill one or more of the intruders with his or her own weapon? We know full well the cops would return fire in self-defense, probably killing the teacher in the process.
Then you'd have one or more dead cops and a dead teacher simply because someone, somewhere was too stupid to consider the full ramifications of doing an active shooter drill during the school day.
Now what've you got? You've got a headstone that says 'here lies Ofcr. Joe Brown, killed by his boss' stupidity'.
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Good point. They should have just driven into the school with armored vehicles - that would have been safer.
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The only thing wrong here is the police officers actions, not the fact a teacher carried a gun or used it on an intruder.
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I am sure the other police officers would give him several ounces of lead.
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This was thought up in poor taste, bad decision making.
There was no advanced notice because there are "no real life advance notices when it comes to attacks"? When officers burst into school rooms with their weapons drawn? What the fuck? Pardon me, but this was only an exercise drill for the police and they scared the hell out of the students in the process.
If I were a parent, I would be filing a lawsuit against the school administrators, the school, the school district and the law enforcement agencies who thought this was a great idea.
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That drill was not about preventing a school tragedy, or even a realistic response to tragedy in progress, as if there is an active shooter, getting organized for a mass invasion by the swat squad just lets them kill more children. Realistically the first cop or two that get there deals with the shooter, the rest keep the roads clear for the ambulances to get in and out. Oh, they are going to have a hard time dealing with worried parents, and making sure that no kids leave the school without being accounted for.
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Let's do this country-wide
Instead of one school shooting with 50 victims in 10 years, we'll end up with 100 school shootings with 10 victims each because of everybody being prepared and trained for it, killers and victims alike.
This is a typically American solution, like "curbing terrorism" by raining death and destruction over Yemen and Pakistan.
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Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of law
First - businesses whose staff suddenly rushed out of work screaming about how their children were being shot at. They'll obviously want recompense for the lost productivity.
Second - those parents who, lets be clear here, natureally would be terrified that their children were in mortal peril and therefore would want some form of compensation for mental anguish.
Three - the children and their parents for the mental anguish of the children.
The result of these lawsuits will be that the local government have to pay up. It will not, however, result in any of the giant muppets responsible for this farce receiving any punishment.
Best case is they will cause a change of policy without such actions being taken again.
Most likely case is that schools will be told to ban mobile phones among children to prevent them from contacting their parents during such a drill which would cause unnecessary disruption to the policy operations.
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Re: Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of law
Having a gun pointed at a person will reasonably place them in fear of death or bodily harm. I would further suspect that this behavior is in violation of departmental policy in the use of weapons.
And police have been known to shoot people who were bystanders, or who were in the process of surrendering. Not unlike the dentist who was in his underwear with his hands up, and was shot by a nervous cop with a twitchy trigger finger, and no trigger discipliine. His execution was for the victim-less crime of gambling.
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Pew, pew!
The Chief of police's head should roll. Whoever in school administration signed off on this should be charged with terrorism offences. Every one of the cops who used live ammo should be fired for reckless endangerment.
This is not what we send children to school for. I hope the teacher's union sues the pants off everyone involved. I hope the parents' suits bankrupt the school system. Apparently, it needs to be replaced.
Children are not to be used as unwitting "extras" in training drills.
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790.10 Improper exhibition of dangerous weapons or firearms.
Title XLVI
CRIMES
Chapter 790
WEAPONS AND FIREARMS
790.10 Improper exhibition of dangerous weapons or firearms.—If any person having or carrying any dirk, sword, sword cane, firearm, electric weapon or device, or other weapon shall, in the presence of one or more persons, exhibit the same in a rude, careless, angry, or threatening manner, not in necessary self-defense, the person so offending shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
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Re: 790.10 Improper exhibition of dangerous weapons or firearms.
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Re: Re: 790.10 Improper exhibition of dangerous weapons or firearms.
(Emphasis added.)
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Re: Re: Re: Re: 790.10 Improper exhibition of dangerous weapons or firearms.
You're not arguing that they're incompetent to stand trial, right? You're just arguing not guilty by reason of diminished mental capacity?
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Some news about the Florida 10th Judicial Circuit Prosecuting Attorney (Polk, Highlands and Hardee counties):
“State Attorney Jerry Hill Won't Run for Re-Election”, by Jason Geary, The Ledger, June 5, 2014
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Good one!
I usually get (at least) a good chuckle out of reading your articles, but that one is legendary! Well done!
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Shooter drill
This is how you train kids and their teachers to , instead of following procedure, say "fuck it, don't rush/bother, its just another stupid drill" when an actual, real, life-or-death emergency happens.
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and//
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Spurious 911 calls?
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What happens when a child who has knowledge of self-defense takes a pencil and jabs one of these "attackers"?
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On the other hand, their idiotic policies said students should make teachers aware if they have cell phones on them so the teachers can use it to contact 9/11/etc in a real emergency. Yet the school rules also said that teachers are to confiscate all cell phones they find on students.
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Thanks for explaining the American political system in layman's terms.
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Student refuses to co-operate?
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Some historical perspective
50-60 years ago, the Cold War was going strong and the thinking was that atomic bombs would drop at any minute. What's the best way to protect yourself? Move to a fallout shelter? Take cover in a shielded building?
Of course not- the solution is to "duck and cover", because obviously putting your hands over your head will protect your from an atomic bomb.
What are the chances that there would be a nuclear war? What are the chances that a bomb would hit any given school? Yet every student was trained (out of fear) to "duck and cover", as if it could happen at any time.
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Re: Some historical perspective
Here they are teaching the kids fo be scared that a madman could rampage through the school at any moment... along with police officers rampaging through with their guns drawn.
During the Cold War everyone was already terrified by the idea of nuclear war. So the "duck and cover" was introduced to give them the false impression that it would help, essentially an attempt to lie away their fears.
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Whatever perspective you try to put on this, it's not really acceptable.
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There's a name...
I think this is a good case of staring too long into the abyss.
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Second, WHAT!? They expect a group of unarmed civilians to attack an active shooter? With what?
If this is really true, please post a copy of this order because someone needs their head re-attached.
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Here they are training to attack and assault schools. Question would be who controls this domestic army being made ready to wage war on citizens
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Desensitization
Surely this is it; afterall, we all *know* that children are desensitized from violence from playing all these violoent video games and television.
So to combat terror, we'll desensitize our kids!
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School district suspends principal
http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/story/27425991/district-suspends-principal-after-controversial-s hooter-drills
Unfortunately, the Winter Haven police still think such drills are a good idea, although in the future they won't draw their guns during a drill. Mental myopia is a common problem. If you restrict your focus just to what is needed to train LEOs and school personnel, such drills are actually a good idea. What is missing is a wider perspective, one that students and their parents could see immediately.
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Re: School district suspends principal
Also, I wonder if it would be legal to bar the police from entering the building without specific permission, if they're that insistent that common sense be damned, they want to go play 'terrorists and terrorized students'?
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Re: School district suspends principal
Hopefully the replacement principal, and other principals encountering the Winter Haven police, will learn from this and deny them permission, on the grounds of not being so stupid in the head.
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Police Terrorism
It fits the definition far better than most things that terrorism laws seem to be used for.
I think the lesson is supposed to be that you need the police to protect you from the bad guys™.
The actual lesson seems to be that the police might kill you.
We live in a fucked up world.
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Jewett Academy Principal Suspended Following Last Thursday's Lockdown Drill
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If only the terrorist get to terrorize, then the terrorist have won.
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What is the point?
The only things you need to know is when someone burst into your classroom with guns is that you do what they freaking tell you and hope they just want hostages, and if the shooting starts, you get the hell outta there or hide.
It's bleak, but unless you have a good shot at actually overpowering this guy,(which most kids don't) being a hero will most likely get you and others killed.
See I could maybe understand if they did a drill where they trained the students in where to go in case of emergencies like this, but when you are faced with a gunman or gunmen, the training is useless. Even those who work with this on a daily basis can tell you how the fear still gets them to fire on a gunman 144 times, and long after he is dead.
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A child will die
But it's bound to happen at some point...and when it does, I wonder how they'll justify the cost-benefit ratio then?
I mean, a Tucson high school student died in a fire drill, which is certainly less risky than a school shooter drill.
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Do It For The Kids...
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/19/principal-suspended-shooting-drill-jewett-academy-jacq uelyn-moore_n_6188418.html
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I think this gun thing is just a dumb idea. It scares kids for no good reason. Do you really think if it ever happened it's going to be at a school where the kids have been practacing. The Odds are pretty high that it'll never happen. But if it did, all this practice buy the kids will go right out the window!!!
Here's a Idea, teachers with Guns!!! They'd be able to protect their kids!!! You're far less likely to go shooting up a school when you know there's teachers there with Guns. The last thing you want to do is have signs out side saying 'Gun Free Zone'!!! Now that's a easy target to kill a whole bunch of people before you run out of bullets and kill yourself.
You can ban guns, it doesn't stop crazy people!!! There's been mass killings in schools in Japan for example and all that was used was a Knife!!! They don't have guns, but hey, a knife kills Kids just as well. Not quite as fast but works. Don't need a Gun or a Knife, just make a bomb! That's not hard to do. There's all kinds of things you can buy at Home Depot to kill a whole bunch of people. Should we ban Pressure Cookers? Ban Nails? ,Ban Pipes? Knifes, Ban a huge long list of things. you can still kill people with your bare hands if you want to.
Having these types of drill will do NOTHING. Maybe it'll get the Teachers to lock the doors quicker for all the good that does as you can shoot out the lock if you wanted. These thing generally don't last long. A few minutes and it's over with, the damage is done.
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Better idea: Fire extinguisher in each classroom. Useful to deal with fire(which are much more likely to happen than a shooter), can incapacitate a shooter in a matter of seconds without requiring good aim, and a 'misfire' isn't going to get someone killed.
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PTA board member Calvelage is an idiot
*facepalm*
why the hell would they NOT use their cellphones when they thought they were being attacked by a mad gunman?!?
From this article:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/florida-active-shooter-drill-gun-toting-cop-angers/story?id=2692007 5
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28 C.F.R. Section 0.85 Terrorism is defined as “the unlawful use of force and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives”.
To not charge those who participated in ANY way in this is disgusting.
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Move Out of that Town
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