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Who Needs A No-Fly List When You Can Just Ground 91 Million Citizens?

from the you-know-what-a-valid-driver's-license-is-good-for?-DRIVING,-citizen. dept

Tue, Dec 29th 2015 10:34am — Tim Cushing

Great news for people who think there's just too damn much freedom in this country: the government's "no-fly" list is about to get much, much longer.

The citizens of several US states may soon find that they can't use their drivers' licenses to get into federal facilities or even board planes.

Enforcement of a 2005 federal law that sets identification standards, known as "Real ID," has been long-delayed. But now Department of Homeland Security officials say enforcement is imminent. The "Real ID" law requires states to implement certain security features before they issue IDs and verify the legal residency of anyone to whom they issue an ID card.

For the residents of Alaska, California, Illinois, Missouri, New Jersey, New Mexico, South Carolina, Minnesota and Washington (along with American Samoa, Puerto Rico, Guam and the Virgin Islands), this means their ID cards are perfectly legal within those states, but only as long as they stay in those states. (And, apparently, never need to enter a government building -- like, say, to acquire a new, compliant ID card).

States that have not complied with the REAL ID Act -- including Missouri and Minnesota, which both passed legislation telling the federal government to take a hike -- will not be granted extensions. Residents in those states will now unofficially join countless others on the government's "can't board a plane" list. On the bright side, they'll at least have some idea as to why they've been denied access, but will be similarly limited in their redress options. (Move to another state?)

The rationale behind the law -- which carries with it privacy-undermining data sharing requirements -- is, of course, terrorist-related.

The statute is in part a response to the suggestion of the 9/11 Commission, which noted that four of the 19 hijackers used state-issued ID cards to board planes.

Not that the new law would prevent the same thing from happening. It may make it slightly more difficult to do so, but it's not as though a halfway decent fake wouldn't fool our nation's crack team of under-qualified security guards, who seem much more interested in dumping out breast milk and feeling up people with medical conditions. For that matter, it's been proven more than once that having an approved government ID really isn't integral to the boarding process.

There are other options available for residents of these states, should the TSA move forward with enforcing the REAL ID law. (The DHS has suggested it won't be waiting around for the holdout states and territories.) But these options are mostly useless. The New York Times reports people will be allowed to present other government-issued ID, like passports -- something domestic travelers rarely carry with them.

The federal government is now forcing states into compliance with the law by using the sort of leverage it never should: its constituents. It's robbing law-abiding citizens of the ability to board airplanes or enter government buildings to force states to fall in line.

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Filed Under: dhs, drivers' license, homeland security, identification, no fly list, privacy, real id, states

73 Comments

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Quiet Lurcker, 29 Dec 2015 @ 10:45am

And the lawyers' phones will be ringing in 3... 2... 1...
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tom (profile), 29 Dec 2015 @ 10:53am

Federal hypocrisy at its worst. My state, OK, is one of the ones that refuses to fully comply with the RealID act. So even though I am a natural born US citizen, I may lose the ability to travel via any means where the govt has placed TSA troops. Meanwhile, in states that both comply with RealID and allow illegal invaders to obtain driver's licenses, said illegal invaders will be allowed to travel.

One positive. I won't have to worry about serving on Federal juries. If they won't let me in the Federal Courthouse because my OK driver's license doesn't meet their magic standards, I can't serve.
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- Anonymous Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2015 @ 11:09am
  
  Re:
  Interesting point. How will they empanel any federal juries in those state? Could this really put the DOJ and FBI and other federal law enforcement agencies out of business in those states? How do we get the other 41 states to help out?
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2015 @ 11:24am
  
  Re:
  If they won't let me in the Federal Courthouse because my OK driver's license doesn't meet their magic standards, I can't serve.
  You're thinking entirely too rationally. You'll still be required to serve and expected to show up. When you fail to show up because the guards won't let you in, you'll be held in contempt of court for failure to appear. We have already seen cases where "Government division A prevented me from meeting my obligation" was not considered a valid excuse by Government division B. See, for example, non-citizens who were detained by law enforcment for so long that they missed their immigration hearings, and were then deported for failure to appear.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - nasch (profile), 29 Dec 2015 @ 6:15pm
    
    Re: Re:
    When you fail to show up because the guards won't let you in, you'll be held in contempt of court for failure to appear.
    
    And yet, he still can't serve on the jury - and neither can anyone else in the area.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2015 @ 11:25am
  
  Re:
  @tom 12/29/2015 1053: I've not had any reason to visit a federal building but every time I've been summoned for jury duty (all city or county, never federal) I only had to show my summons, never ID. And that was after the security screening to get in; never has any of the screeners asked for ID.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Geno0wl (profile), 29 Dec 2015 @ 11:39am
  
  Re: Federal hypocrisy
  No different than when the Feds forced the drinking age up to 21 or forced the max highway speed limit down to 55.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2015 @ 12:31pm
  
  Re:
  One positive. I won't have to worry about serving on Federal juries.
  Hell, they can't even convict you of federal crimes or send you to a federal prison. After all, they don't have any acceptable way to prove that you're actually the person they're accusing.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Ninja (profile), 29 Dec 2015 @ 10:54am

I wonder, when the next terroristic attack happen what will be the next trope?

Govt: You see, it seems the Constitution is preventing us from doing our job so let's just shred it. Good, law abiding citizens don't need such things, right?
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- Roger Strong (profile), 29 Dec 2015 @ 11:51am
  
  Re:
  >I wonder, when the next terroristic attack happen what will be the next trope?
  
  After the shoe bomber made his attempt and we suddenly all had to take off our shoes to board an airplane, the popular joke was that "it's a good thing he didn't have the bomb in his underwear."
  
  So much for that.
  
  My prediction for the next trope: Claims of a app that causes iPhone batteries to explode. Not real of course, but the TSA won't allow you to take your iPhone on a flight. Unless you unlock it and let them image the contents for examination.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2015 @ 7:57pm
  
  Re:
  It has already happened? Where have you been?
  
  You can be held indefinitely without any justification, but upon the mere accusation from the right person that you might be a terrorist.
  
  Your property can be relieved from you at any time by any law enforcement official without just cause through civil forfeiture.
  
  You can be charged and denied legal counsel because you are too rich while the government or IRS completely seizes ALL of your financial assets effectively leaving you defenseless.
  
  You CAN be silenced with either a Court Gag order or NSL, or secret stamp on any object! You have NO 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th amendment rights in line at the TSA.
  
  You can have your guns removed from your person or property by law enforcement without even probable cause.
  
  In short EVERY Amendment to the Constitution has been suspended by various agencies in one form or another, and SCOTUS has already declared anything within 100 miles of the border a constitution free zone with affects just a touch over 50% of the US population.
  
  Maybe you don't get it, but the constitution is already dead and YOU just like ME long with the REST of US will receive just exactly the RIGHTS "THEY DECIDE" TO LET US HAVE!
  
  And at the end of the day, a cop can waste your ass if they just don't like you and EVERYONE in the court system will accept their words "that you threatened them justifying their actions" over irrefutable video evidence!
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - art guerrilla (profile), 30 Dec 2015 @ 6:23am
    
    Re: Re:
    well, we're still in a 'State of Emergency', since nine eleven, doncha know...
    so -you know- anything goes...
    um, for our own good, and shit...
    'cause, um, national sekurity and terrorists and shit...
    now, shut up, sheeple, and chew your cud...
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2015 @ 1:24am
  
  Re:
  microchips implanted into the skin to make sure they can track where you are and know your not anywhere you should not be. Or RFID chips if you prefer, like some of the schools that require children to wear them at all times so they know where they are.
  
  http://www.wired.com/2013/08/student-rfid-chip-flap/
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2015 @ 10:56am

Flying is bad for the environment, and this will therefore help save the environment.
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2015 @ 11:00am

"four of the 19 hijackers used state-issued ID cards"

So what of the fifteen of 19 that didn't?
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- MadAsASnake (profile), 29 Dec 2015 @ 11:08am
  
  Re:
  Nothing, if I remember correctly
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2015 @ 3:09pm
  
  Re:
  > it's not as though a halfway decent fake wouldn't fool our nation's crack team of under-qualified security guards
  
  For how many of the 15 was "fake id" even an issue?
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2015 @ 11:01am

This is alarming. Why have I never heard of this RealID thing before now?
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- Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2015 @ 11:05am
  
  Re:
  2008 was probably the peak year for coverage, where real ID was the subject of presidential debates and widespread protests. Maybe you just don't remember?
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2015 @ 12:08pm
    
    Re: Re:
    It might have been something either so outrageous that I didnt think it stood a chance of passing or so underplayed that it seemed harmless and inconsequential and I forgot about it either way.
    
    After reading a bit about it, it seems like it was passed as a rider on another must-pass bill. How unsurprising. It seems like all the most unfavorable laws are being snuck in must-pass bulls as riders. This needs to be outlawed asap.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2015 @ 2:30pm
      
      Re: Re: Re:
      "This needs to be outlawed asap"
      
      Yes, the trend is disturbing and IMO a real threat to democracy. This and CISA never even got a debate on the floor!
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - nasch (profile), 29 Dec 2015 @ 6:17pm
      
      Re: Re: Re:
      It seems like all the most unfavorable laws are being snuck in must-pass bulls as riders. This needs to be outlawed asap.
      
      It's already illegal for a bill to be about more than one issue. Guess who decides whether a bill is about more than one issue?
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
      - Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2015 @ 12:08am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re:
        Everything has a common core issue, money, and so can be tacked onto budget bills.
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Roger Strong (profile), 29 Dec 2015 @ 11:17am
  
  Re:
  Real ID was immensely popular with the conspiracy theory crowd a few years back. It was "dictated by the New World Order!!!", proof of a "North American Union by 2010!!!" and of course the "The mark of the beast!!!"
  
  That's the sort of thing that makes credible news sources - that want to remain credible - stop talking about it.
  
  Nor was noncompliance to be a major issue; when Congress passed the 2005 Real ID act they insisted compliance by states would be voluntary.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2015 @ 12:03pm
    
    Re: Re:
    Not just that but the Congressman who was the primary sponsor of REAL ID as a bill was Jim "PATRIOT ACT" Sensenbrenner
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Miles Barnett (profile), 29 Dec 2015 @ 11:07am

I can't wait for my next flight out of SeaTac
I frequently fly out of SeaTac airport (Seattle), and with Washington now on the shit list there are going to be a lot of pissed off people. Let's see how long this lasts before they are forced to cave.
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Violynne (profile), 29 Dec 2015 @ 11:07am

Welcome to the Unites States of North Korea. We appreciate your patronage on North Korean Airlines as we approach the militarized zone "Lima Alpha X-Ray". Please ensure your tray and seat are in the upright position as we land. If you do not have state-approved ID, you will be detained indefinitely.
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- madasahatter (profile), 29 Dec 2015 @ 1:40pm
  
  Re:
  Please stop insulting the NORKs, they at least have integrity.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Glenn, 29 Dec 2015 @ 11:15am

New federal ID program: SSN tattoo'd on your forearm.
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- Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2015 @ 11:17am
  
  Re:
  Most new driver licensees have an RFID chip, meaning they can be read at a distance. No need for anything as invasive or easily concealed as a tattoo.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - TRX (profile), 30 Dec 2015 @ 8:30am
    
    Re: Re:
    Arkansas started putting a magnetic strip on their driver's licenses a while back. When the DMV couldn't explain what might be encoded on it, I ran my shiny-new driver's license through my Magnaflux machine. I've been doing that with replacements ever since.
    
    I imagine any RFID devices would be geshtupfed by the Magnaflux as well...
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - nasch (profile), 30 Dec 2015 @ 9:17am
      
      Re: Re: Re:
      I imagine any RFID devices would be geshtupfed by the Magnaflux as well...
      
      Maybe depends on how strong the field is.
      
      https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/01/rfid_zapper.html
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - tqk (profile), 30 Dec 2015 @ 9:58am
      
      Re: Re: Re:
      I imagine any RFID devices would be geshtupfed by the Magnaflux as well.
      
      Depends on the type of RFID, transmitting vs. receiving. An outfit I worked with was using RFID keys which were essentially high tech radio antennas. A base station transmitted a signal then reported back which keys had been detected within range of the transmitter. The keys themselves were otherwise inert.
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
      - nasch (profile), 30 Dec 2015 @ 10:13am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re:
        The keys themselves were otherwise inert.
        
        Yes, but put enough current through it and it will still fry. The question is, how to do that? Certainly a microwave oven will do it, and apparently a strong enough magnet can induce enough current to destroy the antenna too.
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
        
        tqk (profile), 30 Dec 2015 @ 10:35am
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
        ... and apparently a strong enough magnet can induce enough current to destroy the antenna too.
        
        Wierd. I first started out thinking of keys which just stored a value via stored magnetic charge vs. antenna based, and you take it back around that way via antennas.
        
        A powerful magnet is a great way to wipe the contents of any magnetic storage medium, from RFID keys to hard drives, but it'd take a pretty powerful magnet to fry an RFID antenna, though I suppose not impossible.
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
        
        nasch (profile), 30 Dec 2015 @ 12:17pm
        
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
        I'm guessing it would require an electromagnet to be practical.
        [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- kog999, 29 Dec 2015 @ 11:33am
  
  Re:
  It will be on your left hand or forehead.
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2015 @ 11:20am

The statute is in part a response to the suggestion of the 9/11 Commission, which noted that four of the 19 hijackers used state-issued ID cards to board planes.

I wonder how many people have boarded plans since 9/11 with state-issued ID cards...and nothing happened.
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Tom, 29 Dec 2015 @ 11:31am

I would suggest reading the requirements for a license in California. ANYONE can get one. This includes visitors from overseas who only have a border crossing card. (Which is only valid for 72 hours). They even have the AB60 license which states "Not for Federal Purposes". To make it worse, the DMV will accept any documents you provide, all you have to do is sign a form stating the "documents" you provide are legitimate. To make it worse, the DMV will take your thumbprint, but they won't cross check it against any database. So, anyone can get an unlimited number of licenses straight from the DMV, with little or no repercussions. If you don't believe me, go to the California DMV website, and read the requirements yourself.

I fully understand the privacy argument. But you also need to look the massive amounts of fraud taking place. Now that 200 million voting records are out in public, it won't take long for our elections to be compromised. Once you understand both sides of the argument, then you can decide.
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- Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2015 @ 1:28am
  
  Re:
  so let's punish everyone instead of fixing a broken system is your solution?
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Casey S. (profile), 29 Dec 2015 @ 11:38am

As a Minnesota resident...
I have the option of getting an 'enhanced' DL or ID card that meets the Real ID requirements, so Minnesota residents are not completely SOL. Considering that only ~7000 (as of Sept. 2015) have done so though, indicates that a lot a people are not aware of the issue or don't want an 'enhanced' ID.
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- Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2015 @ 11:47am
  
  Re: As a Minnesota resident...
  I don't think many people are interested in paying an extra tax (in the form of enhanced DL) to travel the way they've been legally entitled to.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - TRX (profile), 30 Dec 2015 @ 8:33am
    
    Re: Re: As a Minnesota resident...
    ...particularly when they're not even driving, which is what the "driver's license" was supposedly issued for.
    
    "Your papers! They are not in order!"
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- ltlw0lf (profile), 29 Dec 2015 @ 12:00pm
  
  Re: As a Minnesota resident...
  I have the option of getting an 'enhanced' DL or ID card that meets the Real ID requirements
  
  From what I understand, the enhanced DL looks different from the standard DL in Minnesota, and people have been accused of having a fake DL because they had an enhanced one. That has to have been fixed by now, but I am still seeing people complain about it.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Casey S. (profile), 29 Dec 2015 @ 12:43pm
    
    Re: Re: As a Minnesota resident...
    This may be, but comparing my standard license to the sample enhanced ID on the states website there are few differences. From what I see it adds the word 'Enhanced' to the title and adds a small US flag, otherwise it looks the same from what I can tell.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
    - ltlw0lf (profile), 29 Dec 2015 @ 1:04pm
      
      Re: Re: Re: As a Minnesota resident...
      This may be, but comparing my standard license to the sample enhanced ID on the states website there are few differences. From what I see it adds the word 'Enhanced' to the title and adds a small US flag, otherwise it looks the same from what I can tell.
      
      The problem, at least from what I read, was that it was thicker than the normal license (since it had a RFID chip,) and less flimsy. And while it looked on the face like a Minnesota DL, it didn't feel like one. One article I read said that someone with an enhanced DL had six security guards at a casino detain him and question him, only to be released when a police officer showed up and verified that it was a real DL.
      [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Anon, 29 Dec 2015 @ 11:42am

Obviously...
It's a giant game of chicken. "I dare you to tell a third of the population they are not allowed to fly..."

Does anyone seriously tihnk this is going to happen? At the very least, the airlines would not stand for losing a third of their customers. (And primarily it seems, ones who live too far to drive to the popular destinations.) It will be interesting if it comes to local national guard being called out by the governor to force TSA to let people into airports and onto planes. Methinks the feds will cave before then.

This is an example of the political problems in Canada. When a government gets a parliamentary majority, it is a law unto itself for five years. Typically, the only real restraint is the array of provincial governments with contrary agendas. When the feds tried to enforce a long-gun registry for example, several provinces refused to implement the necessary pieces. Finally, it seems the USA needs to use states as a counter to a totally disfunctional congress.
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- Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2015 @ 12:29pm
  
  Re: Obviously...
  The problem is the federal government has deep pockets and has long ago realized that it can buy state a local politicians cheaply. So if congress actually cares about this, then the states will be forced to comply.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- tqk (profile), 29 Dec 2015 @ 1:32pm
  
  Re: Obviously...
  This is an example of the political problems in Canada. When a government gets a parliamentary majority, it is a law unto itself for five years. Typically, the only real restraint is the array of provincial governments with contrary agendas.
  
  You state an instance of consistency which doesn't exist. When I moved from one province to another, I was told to identify myself with the (federal) Employment Insurance scheme to get my "proof of S.I.N." (Social Insurance Number) so I could then find employment in that province. This federal agency wouldn't accept a Canadian passport it had issued as valid ID. They insisted instead on a provincially issued birth certificate (which anyone can buy through the mail).
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2015 @ 11:59am

"Enforcement of a 2005 federal law that sets identification standards, known as "Real ID," has been long-delayed. But now Department of Homeland Security officials say enforcement is imminent."

Even having a "real ID" does no good when the TSA claims your Washington DC issued drivers license is no good.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2014/07/16/tsa-dc-license-orlando-airport/1272241 5/
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2015 @ 12:08pm

So let me get this straight
A New jersey resident can fly to Disney land but
wont be allowed to fly back due to lack of proper ID ?
Well kids you got your wish
DISNEYLAND FOREVER
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CH, 29 Dec 2015 @ 12:10pm

Clickbait-y
You know you don't need a photo ID to travel, right? You know that they just want to make sure you're who you say you are, right? You know that all the ID check does is check that the person that's getting on the plane matches the person that bought the ticket. You know that if you don't have an ID they just ask you questions from public record to verify you are who you say you are...

Yes, some state IDs will no longer be accepted because in the eyes of the federal government they no longer are secure enough to verify someone's identity. You'll still be able to fly though, it's just a little longer to get through security.
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- Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2015 @ 12:32pm
  
  Re: Clickbait-y
  That's not so. Straight from TSA:
  
  https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/identification
  
  I live in one of the states on the shit list, or one of the states that gave the feds the middle finger, whatever your point of view is. Word is the TSA will begin enforcing the federal ID rules sometime in 2016.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
  - Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2015 @ 12:36pm
    
    Re: Re: Clickbait-y
    BTW, fill out form, validate, subject to additional screening, etc... that would either not confirm your identity, or would last just long enough to miss your flight.
    [ link to this | view in chronology ]
- Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2015 @ 12:42pm
  
  Re: Clickbait-y
  You know you need to read the whole article, including the bits about Federal and RealID-compliant state services for non-compliant state residents, right?
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2015 @ 12:38pm

Blood donor card
I somehow lost my drivers license during a trip out of state. When I got to the airport to return home, I knew there'd be a hassle, but I also knew that I could get through so I wasn't sweating it. After several escalations to supervisors, I finally got through security by showing my years-old, faded, blood donor card. They didn't like any of my other credit cards, insurance cards, employee badge, etc. They wanted something with both my name and my address on it, which the blood donor card did. Security theater...
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Personanongrata, 29 Dec 2015 @ 1:06pm

Cast Off the Repressive Yoke of US government Tyranny
The statute is in part a response to the suggestion of the 9/11 Commission, which noted that four of the 19 hijackers used state-issued ID cards to board planes.

The federal government's point is?

From The National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States (aka 9/11 Commission) report:

Twenty-two of the 23 hijacker applications were approved. 205 ~ Staff Statements: Monograph on 9/11 and Terrorist Travel, Chapter 2, Chronology (page 29).

http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/staff_statements/index.htm

http://www.9-11commission.gov/staff _statements/911_TerrTrav_Ch2.pdf

All of the terrorists involved in the US terror attacks of 11Sept2001 had visas approved by the US Department of State.

Does this mean that the validity of all passports and visas issued by the US government should now be in question and all persons in possession of such documents be forbidden the freedom to travel?

The US government demanding of it's citizens, under penalty of loss of freedom to travel, the use of new and so-called improved form of identification is simply another mechanism of control being set into place by a totalitarian government in fear of it's own citizens.

How is the water frogs?

Revolt Slaves, Revolt!
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Whoever, 29 Dec 2015 @ 1:15pm

California
The DHS isn't going to shut down air travel for all those Californians and Texans. It simply won't happen. Perhaps there will be some kind of compromise, but a full shut down (apart from people with passports): not going to happen.

California knows this, which puts the DHS on a weak footing. The consequences of enforcing this ID requirement are too much.
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Fluffy, 29 Dec 2015 @ 1:33pm

120 day notice
I'm a Minnesota resident, and the latest info from the company I work for is that 120 day notice is required before the TSA can enforce the no-fly. Our understanding is that actual official publication of the intent to enforce hasn't occurred yet. From the DHS real-id-public-faqs, it says that until enforcement begins, state driver licenses from all states will be accepted.
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- madasahatter (profile), 29 Dec 2015 @ 1:46pm
  
  Re: 120 day notice
  Assuming the countdown starts on 1 Jan, then about 1 May you will not be allowed to fly. Somehow, I have a feeling a couple lawsuits and the tanking of the US economy might get someone in DC to stop playing golf for about 5 minutes.
  [ link to this | view in chronology ]
Improbus (profile), 29 Dec 2015 @ 1:43pm

The Donald
Has The Donald weight in on this issue? I am sure he has some profound thoughts on the matter. /s
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2015 @ 2:57pm

State's rights has been a fig leaf for some pretty shady stuff, but this is the one time where I think there is place for a principled stand against the government. States should be able to set the requirement for their own ID, and the feds should pound sand if they don't like it. Grounding US citizens over what amounts to a prop in security theater is a form of tyranny.
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2015 @ 3:07pm

Meh... I just use my passport card. I've even been put in the express line a few times because the dumbass ticket agent thought I was some sort of government official.
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2015 @ 3:36pm

"Ssspecial" CLASS off people.......dictating and shit
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Anonymous Coward, 29 Dec 2015 @ 4:20pm

Most states refused when real ID came out. There was no system setup to deal with it on such a large basis. The government's idea was to offer a paltry sum so that states would jump on the extra money only to find out implementing it would cost far far more. Nearly every state that looked at the program thought the expense was way too much to develop it.

The basic revolt was so bad by states not taking up the bait of piece meal funding that the feds decided to extend the implementation time, praying that some one would eventually develop the system.

Now that they have a sucker who did, it's time to put on the squeeze for the rest of them to fall in line.
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Anonymous Coward, 30 Dec 2015 @ 1:20am

closing the borders to prevent citizens from emigrating. That's a classic. Though rather sneaky this way.
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jilocasin (profile), 30 Dec 2015 @ 6:53am

Who knew the US had a Schengen Agreement?
Wow, I never realized that the US had it's own Schengen Agreement, or that it was so close to being suspended.

For years American (as in U.S. of A.) citizens have enjoyed the freedom to travel between states without presenting papers. After realizing that the The Articles of Confederation [or what Europe is presently trying with the European Union] wasn't working, we got that shiny new fangled Constitution. Sure there were some dark times; slavery, civil war, commies, but for the most part people were free to travel between states without any form of government issued ID.

I guess we'll all have a nice story to tell our grandkids, how back in the day you could travel from one end of this country to the other with nothing more than the clothes on your back.

Sure, it's only about boarding airplanes, now. Next it'll be trains, and boats, and buses, and cars. Finally, even walking across a border will require the proper government approved ID.

Just look at how many governors [granted, mostly republican governors at the moment, but have you seen the current republican presidential candidates?] want to dictate just which immigrants should be allowed in their states?

On the bright side, once everyone has their passport we can try to get all 67 stamps, 50 states, 16 territories, and the District of Columbia. It'll be even better than collecting all of those state quarters.
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- TRX (profile), 30 Dec 2015 @ 8:43am
  
  Re: Who knew the US had a Schengen Agreement?
  Back around 1990 I predicted the USA would have internal travel passports like the USSR before 2020.
  
  Sadly, it looks like that prediction is still on track for becoming true...
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Whatever (profile), 30 Dec 2015 @ 9:46am

Wow
I have to say, this is one of those wonderful anti-government scare articles that makes Fox News look reasonable.

91 million people didn't lose a right to travel. That's crap. 91 Million people live in states which refuse to properly control and administer their ID systems in a manner that makes them meet a standard published more than 10 years ago.

If you want to lay the problem somewhere, lay it at the feet of the states who refuse to offer proper and complete services to their citizens. They had 10 years to get their shit together, and failed in a massive, massive way.
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- nasch (profile), 30 Dec 2015 @ 10:11am
  
  Re: Wow
  You completely ignore the significant security and privacy problems with Real ID. What a surprise. The federal government did it, so it must be right.
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Spaceman Spiff (profile), 31 Dec 2015 @ 6:05am

This is revolting
And so will be millions of US Citizens when this is enacted! In any case, I was surprised to hear Illinois is not Real ID compliant - I was under the impression that it was, especially after I moved here from Massachusetts and had to provide my birth certificate or passport, and proof of residency, in order to get an Illinois drivers license. I guess it was just an example of Illinois' over-aggressive bureaucracy.
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Matthew A. Sawtell, 4 Jan 2016 @ 10:30am

Here is the Complete List from the DHS
Read it and weep folks, the complete breakdown from the DHS:

http://www.dhs.gov/current-status-states-territories
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Michael Leo Lively (profile), 6 Jan 2016 @ 2:00am

I am so disappointed in the Second Amendment Crowd
So, the Second Amendment is all we have left and those guys aren't going to risk their right to bear arms to defend the rest of the constitution..., Which is good because there is a 99% chance they will shoot the wrong persons. Furthermore Command and Control warfare, the only possible effective tactic they would have, will not be considered because they will be too busy offing, "Libtards" sic, Ni**ers and Muslims much to the delight of the Power Elite.

You're going down, humanity!
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