What The Election Means For Stuff Techdirt Cares About?

from the probably-not-good... dept

Wed, Nov 9th 2016 12:17am — Mike Masnick

So, with basically all the big predictors predicting a fairly easy Hillary Clinton victory last night, I was planning to write a post explaining the many serious problems with her vague, confusing and mostly empty tech policy proposals -- and how there were going to be lots of things to pay attention to and fight for in the next four years. But with the surprise Donald Trump victory, it's basically even worse, in part, because he has no tech policy at all and on the issues that we care about he's bad to horrifically terrible.

Here's a quick look at some of the issues that we care about and where Trump comes down:

Free speech: Clinton was bad on this, but Trump is the one with the long history of bogus defamation threats and lawsuits -- and a promise to open up our libel laws and make it easier to sue for defamation. Say goodbye to any chance of a federal anti-SLAPP law, and watch out for much worse.
Mass Surveillance: Again, an issue where both candidates were terrible, and both seemed eager to expand mass surveillance and ignore the 4th Amendment. But again, Trump seems to care even less about the possible ramifications of this -- and has even suggested that he'd like to use the power to go after his personal enemies, rather than the enemies of the country. And, outside of the Presidential election, the 4th Amendment took a huge blow in two key Senate races as well. Senate Intelligence Committee head Richard Burr, who doesn't seem to care in the slightest about the 4th Amendment, beat his opponent, who used to run the North Carolina ACLU (an organization that cares deeply about the 4th Amendment). Burr's victory was likely, but the polls (ha!) were at least close. Up in Wisconsin, however, basically everyone was predicting a return to the Senate for Russ Feingold, the only Senator who voted against the PATRIOT Act and a strong supporter of civil liberties. But in an upset, he lost to incumbent Ron Johnson.
Encryption: I don't believe Trump weighed in specifically on the whole "going dark" debate, but given his comments on mass surveillance and supporting law enforcement over all else, I'm guessing that the chances of a bill banning encryption just got a hell of a lot stronger. Download some strong encryption software now and learn how to use it, folks.
Internet Governance/Net Neutrality: It's just bad. Trump supported a ridiculously dangerous plan based on near total confusion about how the internet works. And I'm guessing this will present a big opportunity for Congress to gut net neutrality as well. Enjoy more power for AT&T and Comcast, folks.
Copyright: Uh, who the hell knows? I don't think it's an issue that Trump has ever remotely weighed in on, but it seems unlikely that he'd surround himself with folks who understand the nuances of copyright policy and its free speech implications.
Patents: Ditto the copyright statement. Again, I fear that given his previous statements, he'll focus on using patents for much greater protectionishm, rather than greater innovation.
High tech immigration: Hahahahahahah.
Automation, Drones, Future of work, etc: Well, considering how focused Trump was on bringing back obsolete jobs, rather than ever mentioning innovation or how new technologies can change stuff... not expecting good things here either.
Police brutality: Yeah, another one where Trump has made himself clear that he's going to side with the police no matter what. That's not good for basic civil liberties and the rule of law. "Law and order" and due process don't always go well together.

In short, no matter who won last night, there would be lots of things to be worried about on the kinds of things that we talk about -- but with Trump it's pretty bad. On the issues he's weighed in on, he's taken really dangerous positions. On issues he hasn't, there's little suggestion that he has the understanding or even the basic intellectual curiousity to understand what's important about them. I recognize that many of these issues aren't the key ones that people are worked up about -- and they certainly have very little to do with why Trump was elected. But they do matter. Trump has talked about protecting the constitution and making America great again. To do that, it has to mean more than just protecting the 2nd Amendment -- and it has to come with supporting actual innovation. That seems a lot less likely right now and that should be a major concern.

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Filed Under: donald trump, first amendment, fourth amendment, hillary clinton, president, surveillance, white house

201 Comments

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Reader Comments

The First Word

“

One small silver lining that no one mentoined...

10. Bad trade agreements: It's a bit of an open secret that Hillary was only against the TPP because she had to publicly express disapproval of it in the primary, and that she had every intention of fully supporting it once she was sworn in. That's not happening now, and by all appearances, Trump will actually oppose it and other bad trade deals.

Will he do so out of xenophobia and a complete misunderstanding of foreign trade? Absolutely! But remember, doing the right thing for the wrong reasons is still doing the right thing.

—Mason Wheeler

”

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Rich P (profile), 9 Nov 2016 @ 12:33am

7. High tech immigration
Should that now read emigration?
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 12:35am

Looks like professor Allan Lichtman was right, again.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allan_Lichtman

I thought for sure he would be wrong this time.
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We Bought a Mascot, not a Man, 9 Nov 2016 @ 12:37am

Get ready for four more years of furthering divide, further distrust, and further corruption in a world where the rich and powerful are free to do what they wish without consequence.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 12:38am

Canada will probably get lots of new imigrants. Also Russia will "annex" baltian countries like Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia and maybe try to do same to Finland too.
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Lawrence D’Oliveiro, 9 Nov 2016 @ 1:02am

The Best You Can Hope For ...
... is that everything he said during the campaign is a complete lie, just bullshit he was spouting to get media (and hence voter) attention.

This has been one hell of a 9/11 for the world...
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That One Guy (profile), 9 Nov 2016 @ 1:02am

No lube it is
I knew before the vote that no matter which one won the US public would be screwed, the only question is whether or not it would include lube. With the disaster that is Trump as president, looks like the answer to that is no, no lube for the american public at all.

These next four years are going to be all sorts of unpleasant.
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That One Guy (profile), 9 Nov 2016 @ 1:23am

Re: The Best You Can Hope For ...
Shallow comfort at best. 'Well he might have been lying the whole time' doesn't exactly inspire confidence.
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Whatever, 9 Nov 2016 @ 1:24am

Finally, an administration that respects policemen.

Masnick is unhappy? My body is ready.
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That One Guy (profile), 9 Nov 2016 @ 1:35am

Ah crapbaskets...
I just realized, the FTA gambit paid off for the republicans. They've now got several years of being able to pass pretty much any 'trade' deal unopposed.

This day just keeps getting better and better...
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 2:05am

Rots o'ruck Amelica. You're gonna need it.
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Adaline (profile), 9 Nov 2016 @ 2:07am
My omniscient gut tells me it's going to be relatively easy to convince Trump to side with the entrenched industries on intellectual property issues. Among the many talking points that have been echoed ad nauseam over the years, some seem to fit nicely with Trump's views:
- Copyright and patents are good for American businesses.
- Copyright and patents foster American jobs.
- Every year, American creative industries lose inexplicable amounts to filthy foreign pirates, many of which are from countries on the Special 301 list.
- The Chinese make knockoffs of American products without respecting intellectual property laws.
- The amount of patents a corporation owns is proportional to its worth.
As has often been said, while Clinton is perhaps just as likely to cosy up to large corporations (not least since Hollywood is in a Democrat state), it may be possible to persuade/pressure her through petitions and protests to accept different viewpoints or compromise. (And before the usual partisans show up, no, I wouldn't have voted for her either. I'm not even American.)
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 2:27am

Re: No lube it is
If only it were just the american public.
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Not an Electronic Rodent (profile), 9 Nov 2016 @ 2:54am

Dammit
...and I thought with Brexit, we'd finally beaten you guys in the, "Dumbest nation on Earth", stakes. But nope, you pull one out of the bag at the last minute to stay top dog.
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Grim Lurker, 9 Nov 2016 @ 3:25am

Threadbare silver lining
This means, if nothing else, progress on what we want will continue more slowly, supported and driven by those true believers who remain. Especially on encryption and privacy.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 3:33am

Re: The Best You Can Hope For ...
Even if it was bullshit, the people he surrounded himself with don't inspire confidence, and if he goes away from the party line too significantly, he would probably quickly find impeachment hearings (for his inevitably bad conduct) by an "outraged" congress that wants Mike Pence instead.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 3:50am

Uh, surely you didn't fall for the media's lie?
"with basically all the big predictors predicting a fairly easy Hillary Clinton victory last night"

The media did everything they could to discourage the Republicans from voting. Had you checked into a lot of the polls, they were heavily skewed to the left because they polled more people from the left. If we learned nothing else from this election, we learned that journalism is dead and the media are just the PR wings of the political parties.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 3:50am

Re: Re: The Best You Can Hope For ...
Who the fuck is mike pence?
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 3:54am

Re: Re: The Best You Can Hope For ...
Why not, Clinton has made quite the career out of lying. Thankfully her lies finally caught up to her.
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frank87 (profile), 9 Nov 2016 @ 4:03am

who is going to tell him?
Given the fact that all off Hollywood openly opposed him in the election?
Beyonce?
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Niall (profile), 9 Nov 2016 @ 4:06am

Re:
There is a difference between 'respecting policemen', which the current administration actually does, and 'letting them run riot with no consequences' which is what "respecting the police" seems to mean to the authoritarians.

"Respect maaah authoritaaaaay!" as a famous authoritarian once said with no basis in reality.
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Niall (profile), 9 Nov 2016 @ 4:10am

Re: Uh, surely you didn't fall for the media's lie?
Even Fox were quoting Clinton as likely. So it looks more like a problem with polling methodology, or basic assumptions - for instance, assuming (not against Trump but against Clinton) that she would pull in most if not all of Obama's black and millennial cohorts. But enough of them were Bernie/Stein/stay-at-home babies that in some states they may have made the difference.

Also, where did the media try to discourage the 'right' from voting? I'd really love to see an example of that.
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Norahc (profile), 9 Nov 2016 @ 4:11am

What it means
What it means summed up in one sentence...

No matter who won, America is pre-fucked for the next four years.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 4:12am

Re:
Um... What...
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 4:16am

Re: Dammit
That's righ bitch! We're still tob dog in stupid!
USA! USA! USA!
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Michael, 9 Nov 2016 @ 4:17am

Re:
That was a given regardless of the election outcome.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 4:20am

Re: Re: Re: The Best You Can Hope For ...
Two wrongs don't make a right.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 4:28am

This is what you get lefties! You balled up and stuffed immigration, globalizing the economy, health care reform, explosion of the national debt, and scandal after scandal right down the American throat and they threw up a face full of Trump on you. If you would have been patient, spoon fed the leftist ideals with a legalized pot chaser, you could have snuck up on the average couch sitting potato eating NFL watching American.

But NooOooOo you had to learn what ship captains have known for years. They turn the ship gently. They turn the ship in such a way as people don't even know the ship is turning. They don't snatch the helm and watch people go flying off, all it does is damage the boat, piss off the people riding on it, and get the captain fired.

So now the republicans have the house and the senate, the presidency, and get to appoint not 1, wait for it.... but possibly numerous seats on the supreme court.

WELL DONE!
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 4:29am

Re: Dammit
Welcome Braitbart, RT and other conspiratorial media. They are now the new normal for finding information.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 4:37am

basically, although the USA would have been in the crap had Clinton won, it will be in deeper crap now that Trump has won! anyone who thinks they will still have any rights and freedoms, start looking for somewhere else to live, because on the face of it, China looks like a pretty good deal!!
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Mason Wheeler (profile), 9 Nov 2016 @ 4:39am

One small silver lining that no one mentoined...
10. Bad trade agreements: It's a bit of an open secret that Hillary was only against the TPP because she had to publicly express disapproval of it in the primary, and that she had every intention of fully supporting it once she was sworn in. That's not happening now, and by all appearances, Trump will actually oppose it and other bad trade deals.

Will he do so out of xenophobia and a complete misunderstanding of foreign trade? Absolutely! But remember, doing the right thing for the wrong reasons is still doing the right thing.
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That One Guy (profile), 9 Nov 2016 @ 4:44am

Re: One small silver lining that no one mentoined...
Here's hoping anyway, be nice to have at least something good result from his election.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 4:46am

None of this will matter to the victims
There is going to be blood in the streets. Anyone who isn't white and the right brand of Christian will be targeted for death -- they already have, note the bomb plot a couple of weeks ago. So while we can argue about net neutrality and copyright, people are going to die -- black people, gay people, Muslims, Latinos, lesbian people, immigrants, Jews, refugees...and none of these policy debates are going to matter to them.

This is the end of our "noble experiment". We have failed as a nation to preserve democracy, and now millions of people are going to pay a terrible price for it.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 4:48am

Re: Re: Uh, surely you didn't fall for the media's lie?
If you remove the hope that a candidate will win, the people who normal wouldn't vote, that WERE going to vote because the race is close, won't bother. Simple jedi mind trick that's been used in politics for years. Basic stuff really.
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That One Guy (profile), 9 Nov 2016 @ 4:49am

Re: Re: Re: The Best You Can Hope For ...
Which is irrelevant to my comment, because she's not the one who won.

If he was lying the whole time then at best that means we have no idea what his actual stances are on things. They could be good, they could be horrible, and his past actions suggest that they would be more the latter than the former.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 4:51am

Re: None of this will matter to the victims
I think you may want to loosen your tin foil hat a bit. It seems to be cutting off the circulation to your brain.
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Violynne (profile), 9 Nov 2016 @ 4:58am

Remember the feeling we all had when Tom Wheeler took office for the FCC?

Have hope those who are appointed aren't necessarily siding with a specific agenda.

I believe this is going to be true more than ever now that Trump is president.
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Mason Wheeler (profile), 9 Nov 2016 @ 5:08am

Re: Re: One small silver lining that no one mentoined...
Another good thing that results from his election: we didn't elect Hillary.

Various email leaks make it painfully clear that she stole the primary nomination from Bernie Sanders, with the willing help of a viciously anti-democratic Democratic Party. If she had won, that would have set an awful precedent, that doing so is OK and rewarding.

Therefore, she had to lose, period. I just wish she could have lost to someone who would make a good President.
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Teamchaos (profile), 9 Nov 2016 @ 5:08am

Sorry Mike...
Sorry your candidate lost Mike. Take comfort in that, like Reagan before him, Trump will govern better than anyone expects him to. (Which won't be hard since expectation are so, so, so, low.)
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 5:11am

Re: Re: Re: One small silver lining that no one mentoined...
Agreed.
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PaulT (profile), 9 Nov 2016 @ 5:22am

Re: Re: Re: Re: The Best You Can Hope For ...
The thing is - if everything he said was a lie, would that actually be any worse than if what he said is all true? Some people right now are probably hoping that at least a few of his campaign promises were outright lies.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 5:29am

Re:
Given the way the police have been militarized, I think you may find your body ready for the morgue.
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kallethen, 9 Nov 2016 @ 5:39am

Re: Sorry Mike...
Let's hope that Trump doesn't expect that low bar of expectations is a limbo bar...
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 5:46am

Re: One small silver lining that no one mentoined...

Doing the right thing for the wrong reasons is still doing the right thing.

That is acceptable only in the short term. In the long term, those wrong reasons will come back to bite you. Every. Single. Time.

Unless, of course, "the right thing" turns out to have been the wrong thing and gets you first.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 5:47am

Need to give Trump time if you want him to have a tech policy. No first-term election campaign has had a decent or comprehensive tech policy so far, and the ones that have had opinions had opinions we didn't like. Except Obama's opinion on transparency, which wasn't really a tech policy, but we all loved it, and it turned out to be a massive lie. Tech policy just isn't the center of US interest, although it effects everyone. Hopefully Trump will bring in some good advisors and things will start to develop.
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Bryan, 9 Nov 2016 @ 5:47am

Re:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/09/23/trump-is-headed-for-a-win-says-professor-w hos-predicted-30-years-of-presidential-outcomes-correctly/

Good article on his strategy.
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That One Guy (profile), 9 Nov 2016 @ 5:48am

The lie you know vs the truth you have to find out the hard way
Hosed if he was lying, hosed if he was telling the truth... 'Out of the frying pan and into the fire' comes to mind, except it's impossible at this point to know which is which.
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Ryunosuke (profile), 9 Nov 2016 @ 5:53am

shit... that actually happened? this is, quite literally, like the morning after heavy drinking and waking up next to some woman you don't know and wondering how you got to that point in life.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 5:54am

Suddenly the concept of limited government got a whole lot more appealing to democrats.
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TheResidentSkeptic (profile), 9 Nov 2016 @ 5:56am

But there is one agreement...
This morning, the leadership of the Democratic Party woke up, reviewed the results of the Presidential, Senate, and House elections and said "How did that happen? What do we do now?".
This morning, the leadership of the Republican Party woke up, reviewed the results of the Presidential, Senate, and House elections and said "How did that happen? What do we do now?".
For the first time ever, the leadership of both parties are in 100% agreement.
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That One Guy (profile), 9 Nov 2016 @ 5:58am

Re:
Hopefully Trump will bring in some good advisors and things will start to develop.

In that case, and I can't believe I'm saying this, I think the best case scenario is that he doesn't have a 'tech policy' because he's completely ignorant on the subject, with no prior knowledge or positions.

Because if he doesn't know anything then a good adviser on the subject might be able to steer him in a good direction, but if he does already have thoughts and positions, and they happen to be bad ones, then I doubt any number of advisers will help, given he doesn't strike me as the sort of person that would take being told he's wrong on anything well.
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Paul Clark Saint John, 9 Nov 2016 @ 5:58am

Re: One small silver lining that no one mentoined...
IIRC the senate is responsible for foreign trade deals. The same republican senate that tried to fast track TPP is the senate that Trump has to work with. Do you think they will allow him to ditch the trade deal? After all, its good for American businesses (many of which are owned by non-Americans). Too many companies that will benefit from TPP gave too much money to senators and super pacs to not have the treaty go through.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 6:02am

Re:
This is both insightful and funny. And also something I have been trying to say. The left seem to like a large, powerful government. That only ever ends badly. Government is a necessary evil but there is no sense making it a large, powerful evil.
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PaulT (profile), 9 Nov 2016 @ 6:21am

Re:
Welcome to my world since the Brexit crap... At least you know something's been done, I'm just slowly watching massive damage being done without the action having started yet.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 6:22am

Re: Re: Uh, surely you didn't fall for the media's lie?
I think if anything they actively discouraged Hillary and encouraged trump supporters to go vote.

They were all predicting relatively landslide victories for Hillary. Republican voters knew they had to vote to beat Hillary. Hillary voters can become complacent in that scenario, assuming the outcome is in the bag. This isn't necessarily what happened but could be a contributor.
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PaulT (profile), 9 Nov 2016 @ 6:23am

Re: Re:
"The left seem to like a large, powerful government"

Weird, I only hear that from self-proclaimed conservatives attacking them, never from people on "the left". I usually right before someone has to point out the amount of cognitive dissonance involved in people claiming to be for "small government", just before demanding that the government control reproductive rights, marriage rights, greater military and immigration controls, etc.
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kallethen, 9 Nov 2016 @ 6:31am

Re: Re:
Oh, there's plenty of time between now and when he takes office for train wrecks to happen.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 6:33am

Re:
Very unlikely. Canada gets very few actual imigrants after elections, when people have accepted the depressing result (not that the opposite result would change that).

When it comes to Russia, Trump is what they have wanted. An autocratic leader who won't try to teach Russia about moral values and "democracy".

Balticum is very likely safe since Russia is already getting a lot of the advantages without the responsibility by proxy. Finland is mostly a posturing conflict unless Finland seriously considers joining NATO.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 6:34am

Re: Re: Re:
"Weird, I only hear that from self-proclaimed conservatives attacking them, never from people on "the left"."

Quick google search reveled that it's more of an idea than an accusation. The physical size of the government is one issue, and the amount of power the government holds is another. According to my google search, the majority of Democrats want the government to have more power vrs the Republicans want it to have less.

The below link was my favorite example. It seems to be the least biased in it's explanation.

http://classroom.synonym.com/republicans-vs-democrats-views-government-size-7737.html
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Mike Masnick (profile), 9 Nov 2016 @ 6:34am

Re: Sorry Mike...
Sorry your candidate lost Mike.

My candidate wasn't even running. This isn't about "my candidate." This is about reality.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 6:36am

Re: Re: Re:
Neither are really for smaller government.

They just focus on different things.

Broadly speaking:
Democrats go for social and environmental programs

Republicans go for military, defense, and moral policing.

Neither really cut government, especially if there district benefits from a department or program
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 6:36am

Re: Re: Re:
Reproductive rights tend to leave out the human rights aspect for the unborn so there is no inconsistency there. The military is one of the duties of government. Immigration control is again, part of the normal governmental duties and is not a control on citizens but those who wish to become citizens. So your points really have little merit when considering big government vs. little government.
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Brent Ashley (profile), 9 Nov 2016 @ 6:44am

11: Global Warming Solved
Now that it's clear that there is a way to harness and focus the unlimited natural resource of stupidity, we will never need to rely on fossil fuels again.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 6:44am

Out of the two (really even Stein and Johnson were bad) Trump is by far the better option if you have any hope for the country. I say that as a Clinton voter. Clinton would have been business as usual which is historically low approval and confidence combined with a system where jack all shit gets done.

Now Republicans (those who notionally opposed Trump) and Democrats have a chance to put their money where their mouth is and come together on issues like rising presidential power and actually putting forth enough votes to block vetos and get legislation passed. It may not happen and Trump may turn out to be the Republican golden child, or it may not happen just because even in a situation like this they feel it still isn't worth working together, but at least with Trump it's a possibility.
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John Mayor, 9 Nov 2016 @ 6:44am

AMERICAN DEMOCRACY
A-M-E-R-I-C-A-N D-E-M-O-C-R-A-C-Y I-S D-E-A-D!... and this just completed U.S. Election, is a testament to that reality!
.
There are a few details that most wanna-be and would-be supporters of "D-E-M-O-C-R-A-C-Y" should be made aware of! And!... the question to be asked, is:... DID MOST AMERICANS ACTUALLY DESIRE A HILLARY... OR A DONALD... ON E-I-T-H-E-R S-I-D-E OF THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM?
.
If I may!... I would like us to reflect on what's really happened here!... and, on what really counts! Was this "democratic vote" more "P-S-E-U-D-O-D-E-M-O-C-R-A-T-I-C", than not?... and!... did the "T-R-U-E M-A-J-O-R-I-T-Y" of the people of America find their "wills" reflected in this "democratic election"?... or!... were their "wills", in fact-- and in many cases!-- N-O-W-H-E-R-E T-O B-E F-O-U-N-D?
.
How is it "DEMOCRATIC"-- e.g.!-- when the Brexit Referendum "win" of Thursday, June 23rd, 2016, was "won" W-I-T-H-O-U-T the E-S-S-E-N-T-I-A-L M-I-N-I-M-U-M of 50+% of the T-O-T-A-L N-U-M-B-E-R of ELIGIBLE BRITISH VOTERS' VOTES?... AND!... NOT JUST, by way of a majority of those who've decided to cast a vote! In other words, how can L-E-S-S than the E-S-S-E-N-T-I-A-L M-I-N-I-M-U-M of 50+% of the T-O-T-A-L N-U-M-B-E-R of eligible British voters' votes, constitute a "D-E-M-O-C-R-A-T-I-C P-L-U-R-A-L-I-T-Y"? It is-- de facto!-- I-M-P-O-S-S-I-B-L-E (i.e., without God!)! And thus, the Brexit vote is a further example of a "P-S-E-U-D-O-D-E-M-O-C-R-A-T-I-C P-S-E-U-D-O-P-L-U-R-A-L-I-T-Y" "winning the day"!
.
To compare the Brexit Referendum to an election of a candidate within a Electoral District... if fifty thousand eligible voters decide not to vote in a District that is composed/ comprised of one hundred thousand eligible voters... and five candidates are running!... the math would suggest, that no candidate could possibly obtain a "D-E-M-O-C-R-A-T-I-C P-L-U-R-A-L-I-T-Y" from the remaining fifty thousand eligible voters who have cast a vote! Unless!... and of course!... A H-I-J-A-C-K-E-D, AND E-L-I-T-I-S-T P-O-L-I-T-I-C-A-L P-R-O-C-E-S-S SIMPLY MARGINALIZES THOSE WHO HAVE NOT SHOWN UP TO VOTE; AND THEN, DICTATES THAT THEIR "NO SHOW"/ ABSENCE, CANNOT-- AND SHOULD NOT!-- BE HELD "B-I-N-D-I-N-G" IN SOME FASHION, OR FORM (AND SOME "NO SHOWS" ARE AS SUCH, DUE TO DISABILITY, AND/ OR INFIRMITY!... NOT TO MENTION, THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN SYSTEMICALLY AND SYSTEMATICALLY DISCRIMINATED AGAINST, DUE TO THEIR Y-O-U-T-H!)! FOR!... OUT OF SIGHT, IS OUT OF MIND!
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Simply put!... and to return to the Brexit Referendum!... the said total of 17,410,742. "winning" "pro Brexit" British voters, plus the said total of 16,141,242. "losing" "pro Bremain" eligible British voters, who-- together!-- showed up at the "Referendum ballot boxes (i.e., 33,551,984 eligible British voters!)", are in contrast to the ACTUAL TOTAL of 46,499,537 eligible British voters (see Google result, Electoral Commission | Provisional electorate figures published!... AND, LET ALONE, THE EVEN HIGHER ACTUAL TOTAL NUMBER OF ELIGIBLE VOTERS' VOTES TO BE HAD, IF MANY OF THE DISABLED/ INFIRMED BRITISH CITIZENS WERE "ACCOMMODATED"!... AND!... IF MANY BRITISH YOUTH WEREN'T THE TARGETS OF "P-O-L-I-T-I-C-A-L A-N-D S-O-C-I-A-L P-A-T-E-R-N-A-L-I-S-T-I-C A-G-E-I-S-M"!)!... and reveals a deficit of 12,947,553. of the ACTUAL TOTAL NUMBER of eligible British voters, and a deficit of 5,839,027. eligible British voters, for even a "B-A-R-E M-I-N-I-M-U-M M-A-J-O-R-I-T-Y W-I-N (i.e., 46,499,537. ÷ 2 = 23,249,768.5... + .5 = [23,249,769.] - 17,410,742. = 5,839,027.!)"! AND THEREFORE, THE COMBINED "WINNERS" AND "LOSERS" TALLY OF ELIGIBLE VOTERS, S-H-O-U-L-D N-O-T B-E M-A-D-E S-Y-N-O-N-Y-M-O-U-S W-I-T-H T-H-E A-C-T-U-A-L T-O-T-A-L- N-U-M-B-E-R O-F E-L-I-G-I-B-L-E B-R-I-T-I-S-H V-O-T-E-R-S/ V-O-T-E-S!... AND!... THE "WINNING TALLY", S-H-O-U-L-D N-O-T B-E M-A-D-E S-Y-N-O-N-Y-M-O-U-S W-I-T-H T-H-E "M-A-J-O-R-I-T-Y W-I-L-L" O-F T-H-E E-L-I-G-I-B-L-E V-O-T-E-R-S O-F B-R-I-T-A-I-N! AND!... THEREFORE!... THE "WINNING TALLY" OF ELIGIBLE BRITISH VOTERS-- AT LEAST!-- SHOULD BE MET WITH A C-O-N-S-T-I-T-U-T-I-O-N-A-L C-H-A-L-L-E-N-G-E (TO START!) FOR THE FLAGRANT BREACH OF THE "L-E-G-I-T-I-M-A-T-E P-R-I-N-C-I-P-L-E-S" O-F D-E-M-O-C-R-A-C-Y (I.E., AND E.G., IN THE F-A-I-L-U-R-E OF THE BREXIT REFERENDUM RESULT TOTAL, TO ACHIEVE EVEN A BARE MINIMUM MAJORITY TALLY, FOR A 'M-A-J-O-R-I-T-Y W-I-N'!)"!
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And so!... the Brexit "win"... like the "wins" seen so often in our PSEUDODEMOCRATIC PSEUDOELECTIONS!... I-S A S-H-A-M!! And!... it escapes me, why citizens from respective "D-E-M-O-C-R-A-C-I-E-S" from around the world, haven't challenged these scurrilous, and shameful "F-A-U-X P-U-B-L-I-C R-E-F-E-R-E-N-D-A"!... AND PSEUDOELECTIONS!... AND!... haven't brought civil proceedings against any and all institutions, which have allowed these G-L-O-B-A-L F-A-R-C-E-S to continue! And thus... re the Brexit Referendum result!... it's my contention, that the Brexit Referendum is D-E-F-E-A-T-A-B-L-E, due to it's inherent S-Y-S-T-E-M-I-C V-I-O-L-A-T-I-O-N of the "L-E-G-I-T-I-M-A-T-E P-R-I-N-C-I-P-L-E-S" OF DEMOCRACY!
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This horrendous situation involving our PSEUDODEMOCRATIC PSEUDOELECTIONS, has resulted in "winning candidates" winning with as little as 1/5th of the total number of eligible voters' votes!... AND!... THEN DARING, TO CALL SUCH RESPECTIVE "WINS", D-E-M-O-C-R-A-T-I-C! A-N-D W-O-R-S-E!... and in the case of the Brexit Referendum result (AND "PSEUDOWIN"!)!... such a "W-I-N" could-- POTENTIALLY!-- compromise the security of an E-N-T-I-R-E N-A-T-I-O-N! And so!... it's no wonder why so many citizens within our respective "democracies (so-called!)" hate the elections process!... and hate, Public Referenda!
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And!... to add Elections insult to Elections injury, there are "Parties" within countries... and again, composed of "winning candidates" who have "won" with L-E-S-S than the E-S-S-E-N-T-I-A-L M-I-N-I-M-U-M needed for a D-E-M-O-C-R-A-T-I-C P-L-U-R-A-L-I-T-Y!... whose leadership (e.g., in Canada!), cannot be chosen, D-E-M-O-C-R-A-T-I-C-A-L-L-Y, by the PEOPLE!... and O-N-L-Y, by the Party! And further, rather than have the brightest!... the best!... "winning candidates" from all across a country-- and, from across a legislature's floor!-- forming Executive Cabinets (and in Canada!... for example!... composed of Ministers of Federal Departments, or Provincial Ministries!)!... A-N-D T-H-R-O-U-G-H A N-O-N P-A-R-T-Y_B-A-S-E-D L-E-G-I-S-L-A-T-U-R-E O-R P-A-R-L-I-A-M-E-N-T (and something, incidentally, that municipalities have been doing for generations!... A-N-D W-O-R-L-D-W-I-D-E)!... our current "PARTY-BASED DEMOCRACIES" have chosen, instead-- A-N-D V-I-R-T-U-A-L-L-Y!-- GANGS, CLIQUES, AND "P-S-E-U-D-O-S-O-C-I-A-L I-N-T-E-R-E-S-T-S", TO ACT AS "GO-BETWEENS" FOR PARTY-BASED "OLIGARCHIC BACKROOM BOYZ"!
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But!... if all of this wasn't bad enough, there's no "NONE OF THE ABOVE" option on millions of voters' ballots (AND "B-I-N-D-I-N-G"!... AS A PREREQUISITE!)!... nor, an "AUTOMATIC TRANSLATION" of the "NO SHOWS (i.e., eligible voters who have NOT cast a vote!)" to "B-I-N-D-I-N-G" "NONE OF THE ABOVE BALLOTS (inasmuch, as such 'NO SHOWS', can't be translated as being 'F-O-R', any candidate!)"! (BUT!... PLEASE NOTE!... IF OUR "NO SHOWS" AS SUCH, ARE DUE TO OUR P-O-L-I-T-I-C-A-L A-N-D S-O-C-I-A-L I-N-A-B-I-L-I-T-Y-- O-R, U-N-W-I-L-L-I-N-G-N-E-S-S!-- TO ADDRESS THE VOTER NEEDS OF OUR DISABLED/ INFIRMED!... AND, OUR YOUTH!... THEN SUCH "INABLED", OR "UNWILLING", SHOULD BE "H-E-L-P-E-D" RE THEIR "INABILTY"!... OR H-E-L-D T-O A-C-C-O-U-N-T FOR THEIR "UNWILLINGNESS"!) And, had the "NONE OF THE ABOVE" and the "TRANSLATED NO SHOW" provisions been addressed, many "NO SHOWS" would have shown up to vote (for fear of receiving a MANADATED "BINDING" "AUTOMATIC TRANSLATION"!)! And!... if combined "NO SHOW TRANSLATIONS", together with directly cast "NONE OF THE ABOVE BALLOTS", were implemented (wherein-- TOGETHER!-- these OUTNUMBER the votes cast for any respective "running candidate"!), this combined tally could have meant the introduction of "lottery lists" of candidates within respective Districts (preselected!... and the members in which, would not be eligible to run as "running candidates"!)!... from which, our "winners" could have then been chosen! And thereby!... EFFECTING F-U-L-L R-E-P-R-E-S-E-N-T-A-T-I-O-N FOR EVERY SINGLE ELIGIBLE VOTER, AND VOTE!
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And!... to juxtapose the just aforesaid template onto Referenda!... and onto the Brexit Referendum, in particular!... if the directly cast "NONE OF THE ABOVE BALLOTS", combined with the "TRANSLATED NO SHOWS", OUTWEIGHED the votes cast for either the Brexit or Bremain scenarios, then NEITHER Brexit, nor Bremain, would be left on the table! And the MPs of the British Parliament, would then be forced to renew their respective individual approaches, and collective approach, re their "arrangement" with the EU!... and, their respective dialogues, and collective dialogue, with the citizens of Britain!
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And given... and in contrast to the abovenoted!... in the light of the process that was implementated for the Brexit Referendum (yet to be revealed!)!... WELL!... you have the makings of a P-O-O-R E-X-C-U-S-E F-O-R A D-E-M-O-C-R-A-T-I-C R-E-F-E-R-E-N-D-U-M!... A-N-D A P-O-O-R "R-A-T-I-O-N-A-L B-A-S-I-S" F-O-R T-H-E R-E-D-I-R-E-C-T-I-O-N O-F T-H-E F-U-T-U-R-E C-O-U-R-S-E F-O-R A-N E-N-T-I-R-E C-O-U-N-T-R-Y!!
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To sum up, what we have, presently, are PSEUDODEMOCRATIC PLURALITIES IN THE GUISE OF "D-E-M-O-C-R-A-T-I-C-A-L-L-Y E-L-E-C-T-E-D" REPRESENTATIVES! An intolerable situation!... and deserving of both Constitutional challenges, and Tort action! And!... A-N-Y O-T-H-E-R ACCEPTED PLURALITY OTHER THAN A "D-E-M-O-C-R-A-T-I-C P-L-U-R-A-L-I-T-Y" ACCEPTED BY A PROSPECTIVE CANDIDATE, AND/ OR BY A PROSPECTIVE VOTER (AND BASED UPON THE "LEGITIMATE PRINCIPLES" OF DEMOCRACY, AS AFOREMENTIONED!... AND OTHER, THAN ONE INSTITUTED BY GOD!)!-- IS A CANDIDATE, OR VOTER, WHO IS EITHER BLIND TO THE "LEGITIMATE PRINCIPLES" OF DEMOCRACY, OR WHO IS A TRAITOR TO THE "LEGITIMATE PRINCIPLES" OF DEMOCRACY! AND!... WHO IS EITHER BLIND, OR A TRAITOR, TO THE COMMON GOOD OF THE PEOPLE!
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THEREFORE, THE "J-U-S-T ESTABLISHMENT" OF "T-R-U-E DEMOCRATIC PLURALITIES" WITHIN OUR RESPECTIVE REFERENDA, AND ELECTIONS PROCESSES, IS F-U-N-D-A-M-E-N-T-A-L TO THE VERY REALIZATION OF "D-E-M-O-C-R-A-C-Y"!... AND!... WITHOUT WHICH, WE ARE SUBJECT TO MERE OLIGARCHIC WHIM!
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Please!... no emails!
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 6:45am

Re: Re: One small silver lining that no one mentoined...
I think the most likely outcome will be a "renegotiation" where Trump gets to set some fingerprints. Afterwards it is business as usual. Trump is an actor, he knows how to polish a turd.
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Cheeto In Chief, 9 Nov 2016 @ 6:45am

Nuclear weapons
Why even have them if we can not use them?
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 6:46am

Re: Re:
To be fair I believe he predicts the popular vote and Clinton won the popular vote, though not by much.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 6:49am

Re:
The way to look at Trump is through who he is getting his information from. His advisers are incredibly biased towards tinfoil hats. That is why I fear him.
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Any moose cow word, 9 Nov 2016 @ 6:58am

Re: who is going to tell him?
There's a difference between the celebrities who work in Hollywood and the studio bosses who own Hollywood. The bosses will be very happy with Trump. He supports censorship, which is the bosses ultimate vision for copyright.
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Ryunosuke (profile), 9 Nov 2016 @ 7:04am

Re: AMERICAN DEMOCRACY
T-L-D-R

T-O-M-U-C-H-Y-E-L-L-I-N-G-!-!
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PaulT (profile), 9 Nov 2016 @ 7:09am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
"Reproductive rights tend to leave out the human rights aspect for the unborn so there is no inconsistency there"

I prefer human rights for the person forced to go through a strenuous, sometimes fatal, medical condition against their will, especially when their doctor also advises against it, but I don't see how allowing it to happen increases the size of the government. Introducing new laws to restrict assistance for such people and intervene before a procedure is carried out certainly does, however.

"The military is one of the duties of government"

It is indeed. But, why do right-wingers feel it always need to grow exponentially even after it's outshadowed all other militaries?

"Immigration control is again, part of the normal governmental duties and is not a control on citizens"

...unless you're on the wrong side of those policies, in which case it's very much that.

"So your points really have little merit when considering big government vs. little government."
So, you think that growing those things doesn't grow the size of the government? How does this miracle happen?
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 7:21am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
It depends on your definition. Having legislation to encapsule a balance between reproductive rights certainly will be extensive and enforcing it extremely heavy on interference in the womans life. So big on interference government.

The size of military is big government in its most basic economic meaning.

Imigration control has been a pain for every president since the slavery. The logic of big government there, would require some specification of what is wanted. The resources needed to build a wall or enforce a no bullshit control would be excruciatingly expensive and require millions of public workers thus hitting the third definition of big government...

I don't see the consistency between social conservatives and libertarians, mainly because they are almost complete opposite ideals.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 7:21am

The elites are shocked, shocked that 50% of the voters are below average
... and they are still allowed to vote!
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 7:22am

Re: Re: Re: The Best You Can Hope For ...
Your worst nightmare. If Trump is bad, imagine worse. Pence is anti-gay, anti-atheist, anti-climate change (it isn't happening in his world), and anti-just about everything else. Sigh.
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Ryunosuke (profile), 9 Nov 2016 @ 7:22am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
rather than a "big govt vs small govt" I am more preferable to a more EFFICIENT govt
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PaulT (profile), 9 Nov 2016 @ 7:22am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
"Eighty-two percent of Republicans polled felt that the government was doing too much, while 67 percent of Democrats felt that the government should be doing more"

Depends on the question in my experience, which was kind of my point. Focus the question the military, for example, and you'll usually find those answers flip. It all depends on what you think "government" is.

The fact that the linked article seems to focus on controls on businesses and welfare does lead into my point. Many Republicans who claim to be for "small" government when it's about those subjects will suddenly demand it be increased when it's about a target they dislike or a hot button issue like terrorism or abortion. That's even before they start complaining about the federal government over a local/state issue or vice versa.

The problem isn't merely that there's no set definition of "big government", but people are confused about what "government" means to begin with. But, I can tell you that "small government" does not mean adding extra restrictions to what clinics can do or adding extra toys to the police and military, although people claim to be for such a thing often support those.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 7:23am

Re: Re: None of this will matter to the victims
Haven't you been paying attention? The death threats have been escalating for over a year. And didn't you hear the crowd in New York chanting last night? ("We hate Muslims/we hate blacks/time to take our country back")

If you want to think this is tinfoil hat territory: okay. Fine. I hope you're right and I'm wrong. But if I'm right: remember this day and remember what I said when the bodies start to stack up.
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rangda (profile), 9 Nov 2016 @ 7:24am

Re: No lube it is
Actually more likely the next eight years. Four of the past five presidents served 2 terms, so odds are that you would be stuck with the winner for eight years, regardless of who it was.
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I.T. Guy, 9 Nov 2016 @ 7:25am

I have lost all faith in humanity. I
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 7:25am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Ah, so it is just a "medical condition" and not a human life. Also, it is a complete bogeyman to say it is sometimes fatal or due to rape or incest. Even if it was allowed in that 1% case it would not be enough for the left. There is no more imposition of will on another than to take the other's life.

How can anyone be on the wrong side of immigration policies? Do you really think you should be allowed to cross the border of another nation and demand citizenship? In what world is that allowed? Immigration is a privilege and not a right.
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PaulT (profile), 9 Nov 2016 @ 7:28am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
That's true to an extent, though I find that those supported by the "left" often at least have the potential to reduce government even if it's not followed through with. For example, environmental controls can avoid major incidents later down the road that would require costly government intervention. Meanwhile, shutting down access to abortion and sex education often results in higher pregnancy and STD rates, which requires more to deal with the results.

It's a general observation and it could be discussed at length, and this isn't really the forum for it. But, I do find that the people who scream about "small government" are actually for no such thing and are happy with growing it as long it doesn't directly affect them personally.

But, therein lies the problem with the partisan nature of US politics, I suppose.
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John Mayor, 9 Nov 2016 @ 7:28am

Re: Re: AMERICAN DEMOCRACY
TEXTUAL SCREAMING: OR DELUSIONAL BEHAVIOR
.
ATTENTION!:... LARGE LETTERING IN A "PASSIVE TEXTUAL COMMENT" D-O-E-S N-O-T TRANSLATE TO "SCREAMING"! THAT CONCLUSION WOULD BE THE "D-E-L-U-S-I-O-N-A-L SIDE EFFECT/ SEQUELA/ EPIPHENOMENON" OF PRESCRIPTION MEDICATION, EXCESSIVE ALCOHOL USE, PSYCHOTROPIC DRUGS, BRAIN TRAUMA, OR SOME GENETIC-BASED COGNITIVE PSYCHOPHYSIOLOGIC MALFORMATION (POST-CONCEPTION!)! OR!... IT SIMPLY COULD BE ONE TOO MANY ALLIES ROLLING AROUND IN A TIN CAN, IN WHAT MAY BE P-A-S-S-I-N-G (OR, A-T-T-E-M-P-T-I-N-G T-O P-A-S-S!) FOR A F-U-N-C-T-I-O-N-I-N-G B-R-A-I-N!!
.
LARGE LETTERING, IS USED TO E-M-B-O-L-D-E-N T-H-E E-M-P-H-A-S-I-S OF REGULAR/ NORMAL SIZED TEXT (IN A FASHION, SIMILAR TO QUOTATION MARKS!)!... AND!... HAS N-O-T-H-I-N-G T-O D-O WITH "S-O-U-N-D"! HYPHENS!... WHETHER USED BETWEEN REGULAR/ NORMAL SIZED TEXT IN AN EXPRESSION, OR BETWEEN EMBOLDENED/ LARGER SIZED TEXT IN AN EXPRESSION, ARE USED TO EFFECT AN A-R-T-I-C-U-L-A-T-I-O-N OF A GIVEN "T-E-X-T-U-A-L E-X-P-R-E-S-S-I-O-N"!... AND!... TO DELIBERATELY "R-E-L-A-X"/ S-L-O-W D-O-W-N THE READING OF AN EXPRESSION, IN ORDER TO BRING "H-E-I-G-H-T-E-N-E-D A-T-T-E-N-T-I-O-N" TO PARTICULAR EXPRESSIONS THAT ARE DEEMED I-N-T-E-G-R-A-L TO A MESSAGE/ CONCEPT BEING COMMUNICATED! AND AGAIN!... THE USE OF HYPHENS H-A-V-E N-O-T-H-I-N-G T-O D-O WITH "S-O-U-N-D"!
.
ELLIPSES!... ARE USED TO EFFECT A DELIBERATE BREAK IN WHAT WOULD-- OTHERWISE-- BE A "QUICKENED" CONTIGUOUS SENTENCE!... USING "CONVENTIONAL" SENTENCE STRUCTURE, AND PUNCTUATION! THEY ARE USED TO ARTICULATE A SENTENCE, IN THE SAME MANNER A HYPHEN MIGHT BE USED TO A-R-T-I-C-U-L-A-T-E A WORD!... AND TO "R-E-L-A-X"/ S-L-O-W D-O-W-N THE MESSAGE BEING COMMUNICATED, IN WHAT WOULD-- OTHERWISE-- BE A MORE "HURRIED" CONVENTIONAL SENTENCE STRUCTURE! AND!... IS COMPARABLE-- I'LL SUGGEST!-- TO S-A-V-O-U-R-I-N-G AN AFFORDABLE FINE WINE!... AS APPOSED, TO "GULPING IT DOWN" LIKE SOME ANIMAL IN A BARNYARD!
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LASTLY!... EXCLAMATION POINTS-- FOR ME!-- ARE PREFERRED OVER PERIODS, AS I DESIRE "L-U-C-I-D A-T-T-E-N-T-A-T-I-V-E-N-E-S-S" TO THE IDEAS/ NOTIONS/ CONCEPTS BEING COMMUNICATED! AND ONCE AGAIN!... THEIR USE HAS N-O-T-H-I-N-G T-O D-O WITH "S-O-U-N-D"!... N-O-T-H-I-N-G T-O D-O WITH "M-A-N-I-C S-Y-N-T-A-X"!... OR "M-A-N-I-C S-E-L-F E-X-P-R-E-S-S-I-O-N"!
.
I DON'T DELIBERATELY CHOOSE TO EXPRESS MYSELF USING "HYPERVERBOSITY"!... OR EVEN VERBOSITY! MY WORDS... AT TIMES!... MAY BE MANY!... BUT, THESE ARE CHOSEN CAREFULLY!... AND ARE MEANT TO EXPRESS-- EFFICIENTLY, AND EFFECTIVELY!-- WHAT IS E-S-S-E-N-T-I-A-L FOR T-H-O-U-G-H-T-F-U-L R-E-A-D-E-R-S TO ENTERTAIN/ RECEIVE! AND, UNLIKE "T-R-U-M-P-I-A-N T-H-I-N-K-E-R-S", I DON'T JUDGE A BOOK BY THE SIZE OF ITS "C-H-A-R-A-C-T-E-R-S"!... NOR, A WOMAN BY THE PRESUMED "EASE OF HER GENITAL ACCESS"! AND SO!... IF MY WORDS APPEAR TO BE "I-N-A-C-C-E-S-S-I-B-L-E" TO YOU... TOO BAD! I'M NOT "PUTTING OUT"!... JUST SO Y-O-U CAN "GET OFF"!
.
YOU'LL JUST HAVE TO "P-L-A-Y" WITH YOU OWN DUMB*SS "E-X-P-R-E-S-S-I-O-N-S"!... AND SYNTAX!... IN ORDER TO DO THAT!
.
Please!... no emails!
.
P.S.: You didn't put a space between T-O and M-U-C-H, and Y-E-L-L-I-N-G! And!... it's "T-O-O"!... not "T-O"!
.
In other words, you're not someone who pays attention to life's details!... let alone, to MY comments, specifically! That is to say... Y-O-U-'-R-E W-I-L-L-F-U-L-L-Y S-T-U-P-I-D O-F R-E-A-L-I-T-Y!
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PaulT (profile), 9 Nov 2016 @ 7:30am

Re: Re: Re: AMERICAN DEMOCRACY
Whatever the medication you've been skipping is, please start taking it again. Nobody sane types like this, let alone reads it.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 7:30am

Re: None of this will matter to the victims
Wow, talk about a dooms day scenario. I really feel sorry for the sky-is-falling crowd. I get the feeling that some of them actually believe this stuff. Sadly, the media has been feeding it to them so long they really can't be blamed.

But this election, if nothing else, should open the eyes of all that the media is pushing an agenda and will not tell you the truth. Please seek out alternative outlets and you will find that the other side are not the blood thirsty killers you believe they are. Not even close.
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Ryunosuke (profile), 9 Nov 2016 @ 7:32am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
biologically speaking, a fetus is nothing more than a tumor, or a parasite.

I am partial to Mike here, Educate the person/persons on the procedure, the risks, etc. IF she still wants to go through with it, then it is up to the govt to provide a safe (as can be) and clean environment to do so.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 7:32am

Re: Re:
That is a given regardless of any outcome as long as we keep to political parties.

Parties only divide and usurp the peoples will. They serve no other purpose.
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Ryunosuke (profile), 9 Nov 2016 @ 7:33am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Paul, not mike, my mistake.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 7:33am

Re: Re: Re: Re: The Best You Can Hope For ...
Well they made a hillary and a trump! And lots of people voted for both!

Something went right, alright!
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 7:35am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
I think the question is in general. You can nit pick the specific's if you want, but in "general" those are the tendencies of the party's.

Doesn't mean there isn't exceptions or situations where it's not true, and I'm not going to argue it with you because I don't care enough too. But most people see "big government" as how much power the government has, not it's physical size.. as in the size of the military.

As a whole, according to my quick research, the Democrats generally want the government to have more power, than the Republicans do. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just pointing out what i read.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 7:37am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
So what is the magic point that the tumor becomes a human life? I'll give you a hint, it was never a tumor. It is scary to think that people actually believe this.

Also, at what point is taking a human life not acceptable?
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PaulT (profile), 9 Nov 2016 @ 7:38am

Re: Re: Re:
Yeah, but you know what the date he takes office will be. The train wreck will happen slowly, but you know the official start is January 20th, 2017 for things to really kick off

I'm still watching people argue about what needs to be done, let alone when to do it. Yeah, there's been a date proposed but that and everything else is still in question. The country's economy still managed to lose a huge amount in the meantime, though, not to mention other negative effects both nationally and personally.
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John Mayor, 9 Nov 2016 @ 7:38am

Re: Re: Re: Re: AMERICAN DEMOCRACY
NOBODY I-N-S-A-N-E CAN CHOOSE TO PREPARE THE L-U-C-I-D AND S-A-N-E MATERIAL THAT YOU'RE CITING!... AS NOBDY I-N-S-A-N-E CAN APPRECIATE ITS EFFICIENCY AND EFFECTIVENESS! AND SO!... J-A-C-K-A-S-S!... G-E-T L-O-S-T!
.
Please!... no emails!
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 7:40am

Re: Re: No lube it is
Americans are becoming more in love with the idea of Ruling Dynasties.

We had 2 bushes already serve as president with a fucking 3rd gunning for the position, the threat of a 2nd Clinton all in the span of 30 years, and you can bet that fucking cunt daughter of theirs will be on the ballot in the future.

We should never support any form of Dynasty Ruling classes in the USA. But then again, people are not smart, they fuck it up every time.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 7:41am

Re: Re: Dammit
Sadly, no nation has a claim for this. People in general are stupid as fuck! World History is proof of it!
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 7:43am

Re: Re: Re: Uh, surely you didn't fall for the media's lie?
I did not vote, but not for those reasons.

If you are to coward to get your fucking ass out and using your voice or your vote, you didn't deserve it in the first place!

I am okay with you bitching about the wrong they still do, but you cannot bitch about the results!
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 7:45am

Re:
This comment even though told in a hilarious tone, should be considered insightful.

This AC just laid out how shit really happens to nations. Rome was not built in a day.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 7:49am

Re:
I will help you pack your bags bitch!
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Ryunosuke (profile), 9 Nov 2016 @ 7:51am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
okay so you just asked two different questions.

1) at what point does a fetus become a human. I would say at birth. However, what is currently on the books (at least in the US) generally is 2nd or 3rd trimester (unless either the mother or the fetus is in imminent danger).

2) At what point is taking a human life unacceptable, this is a lot more complicated as it is dictated by circumstances present at the time, there are laws and court rulings and military reviews detailing as to the legality of taking a human life. But to humor you, I will go with my previous statement as to the 20-24 week. That seems to be the best balance between the two viewpoints.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 7:53am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
So what is the magic point that the tumor becomes a human life? I'll give you a hint, it was never a tumor. It is scary to think that people actually believe this.

At what point do those who support banning abortion cease to care about it being a human life? And I'll give you a hint - it's right after it pops out of the mother.

Because typically those same people who are concerned about the fetus also do not support contraception (you know, those things that can prevent the whole situation in the first place?) or health care for the "human life" that they were so concerned about from conception to 9 months.

If you really cared about it being a human life, you'd care beyond the point where the mother isn't carrying it. Until/unless you're willing to support that, your "concern" doesn't appear to be very genuine.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 7:55am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: AMERICAN DEMOCRACY
Please!... no emails!

Something tells me that no one's going to email you. I suspect you can leave this off your next episode without any consequence.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 7:56am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: AMERICAN DEMOCRACY
SoOoOo... whats your email address again?
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 7:58am

Re: Re: One small silver lining that no one mentoined...
neither the Republicans, Democrats, or Citizens have learned that lesson in either direction.

We both just wasted text on a web page friend.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 8:02am

Re: AMERICAN DEMOCRACY
America is not a Democracy! Only the fools that do not understand language believe that.

Hillary still lost with having the popular vote as of this post. Sadly it will not change the minds of the ignorant.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 8:03am

Re: The elites are shocked, shocked that 50% of the voters are below average
According to the Dems, they are the champions of the under educated low information voters because those pesky whitey keep them ignorant and block their access to education.
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crade (profile), 9 Nov 2016 @ 8:04am

Re: Re: AMERICAN DEMOCRACY
Trump? Is that you?
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 8:04am

Re: Re: Re: AMERICAN DEMOCRACY
How did you guess?
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PaulT (profile), 9 Nov 2016 @ 8:06am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: AMERICAN DEMOCRACY
See what I mean? Genuine gibberish. You even lost the ability to use different cases.
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I.T. Guy, 9 Nov 2016 @ 8:07am

Re: AMERICAN DEMOCRACY
Someone is 300% butthurt and went crazy spamming the comment section.

Can I get you a tissue Brah?
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PaulT (profile), 9 Nov 2016 @ 8:07am

Re: Re: Re: No lube it is
"that fucking cunt daughter of theirs"

Classy. I wonder who you supported.

"We should never support any form of Dynasty Ruling classes in the USA"

Unless they're in charge of a financial institution or corporation, then you lap that right up.
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jupiterkansas (profile), 9 Nov 2016 @ 8:10am

Re: Re: Re: No lube it is
Trump won in part because he was breaking up the ruling dynasties. Half the people in this country want that kind of change.
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PaulT (profile), 9 Nov 2016 @ 8:11am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
"So what is the magic point that the tumor becomes a human life?"

It's not magic, it's biology. But, it sure isn't at conception. Lucky too, as that would complicate things a hell of a lot for everybody if it did.

"Also, at what point is taking a human life not acceptable?"

At birth, generally. There's rare cases where a life is viable outside the womb but it ended before it can be born, which are also unacceptable. But, despite propaganda to the contrary, those are quite rare.
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RainbowboomX (profile), 9 Nov 2016 @ 8:19am

Re: Re: No lube it is
It depends if he signs the tpp or even passes and betrays his base then next time he might literally get ripped to shred if a true progressive that is anti-establishment runs against him unlike HRC the bought off politician
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jupiterkansas (profile), 9 Nov 2016 @ 8:20am

Re: Nuclear weapons
Exactly. That's why I set my house on fire. Those fire extinguishers were just sitting there doing nothing.
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PaulT (profile), 9 Nov 2016 @ 8:22am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
"Ah, so it is just a "medical condition" and not a human life."

To a point, yes. Until the fetus is viable, it cannot live on its own outside the womb, so the owner of that womb is of more importance. People who don't see women as brood mares understand this clearly.

"Also, it is a complete bogeyman to say it is sometimes fatal or due to rape or incest"

Yes, the truth often hurts bullshit arguments. Better to ignore reality so you can pretend these things don't matter. You cause a lot of mothers - and children - to suffer needlessly because of this, but who cares about them, right? Better a newborn die in pain due to a known birth defect or a mother bear the child of her rapist than a needed abortion be carried out.

"There is no more imposition of will on another than to take the other's life"

So, that includes forcing women to give birth even though it will kill them, correct?

"How can anyone be on the wrong side of immigration policies?"

That you have to ask that illustrates how you don't know what the issue being discussed is actually about. There's at least 3 or 4 other parts of the equation (migration caused by the war on drugs, employers who are not punished for knowingly employing illegals instead of Americans, people staying illegally by overstaying visas not fleeing from mexico, wage stagnation making it so that only illegals are willing to work for the available wages, etc). But you're only worried about brown people jumping fences...
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 8:23am

Well, perhaps it will be like with every single one of his predecessors. They say certain things to get in, and then once in, they do entirely different things.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 8:39am

Re: Re: The elites are shocked, shocked that 50% of the voters are below average
"According to the Dems, they are the champions of the under educated low information voters because those pesky whitey keep them ignorant and block their access to education."

Duh! No matter how much education you give a population, 50% will still be below average. That's the definition of average (or at least median).
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Rabbit80 (profile), 9 Nov 2016 @ 8:49am

Re:
Never mind Allan Lichtman.. the Simpsons predicted it 16 years ago!

http://metro.co.uk/2016/11/09/the-simpsons-predicted-president-trump-16-years-ago-as-a-warning-t o-america-6245205
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 8:52am

Re: Re: Re: Re: No lube it is
Perhaps, but is it really to break the dynasty or just because this dynasty was not doing what we wanted?
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 8:56am

Re: Re: Re: Re: No lube it is
I did not vote for Trump is that is what you were wondering.

I like that you just assume that if I do not like another person then I MUST LOVE the other.

Sorry, I did not vote because I see no real fundamental different between either Hillary or Trump. Both have their own version of America's destruction. So I am just going to sit back and laugh at all of the people whining about how this election turned out.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 9:03am

Re: Re: Re: The elites are shocked, shocked that 50% of the voters are below average
Depends on perspective.

When it comes to education, an actual bar is established. Because of this, more or less than 50% can fall under it or rise above it.

For example, the average American citizens that knows how government actually works or even what kind we have... well well fucking below it.

The average American citizen with a terrible diet and hubris? Well above it!
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 9:32am

My only solace is I have a morbid curiosity of what will happen when Trump is president.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 9:37am

STUPID FUCKING DEMOCRATS PUTTING CROOKAREE up against
DICKONALD , You deserve everything you get .
Sanders was the way forward you FUCKTARDS
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 9:40am

Re: 7. High tech immigration
I hope so!
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PRMan, 9 Nov 2016 @ 10:06am

Re:
If only we could get rid of the annoying ultra-liberals that easily...
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PRMan, 9 Nov 2016 @ 10:08am

Re: Re: Re: Re: The Best You Can Hope For ...
Got it. Beginning to pray for Trump's death... (J/K)
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PRMan, 9 Nov 2016 @ 10:10am

Re: Dammit
Sorry, England, America is #1 again....
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PRMan, 9 Nov 2016 @ 10:13am

Re: Re:
"Rome was not built in a day."

But it was destroyed in one.
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PRMan, 9 Nov 2016 @ 10:16am

Re:
This is my thought. Either Trump is going to get us nuked with his atrocious foreign policy, or he is Reagan 2.0.

Actually, after thinking about it, Reagan almost got us nuked too...
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 10:20am

Re: Re: None of this will matter to the victims
"Alternative outlets" are extremely hard to judge. That the media in USA are biased is believed by more than 70 % of the voters. But seeking out "alternative outlets" willy-nilly is not a solution. Facepalm-book, The-litter and other primary sources for comments are not objective media in the slightest.
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FM Hilton, 9 Nov 2016 @ 10:21am

Advisers?
Well, when you have people such as Alex Jones and Russ Limbaugh planning your political agenda, you can't be too paranoid about what his cabinet will look like.

I've already heard the name "Newt Gingrich" as Secretary of State mentioned.

No matter what, this is not an improvement in our society.

You know the saying "Be careful of what you wish for-you might get it" now applies to those who voted for him.

At least half the country won't be feeling too badly about supporting an educated person to the office.

Because by all accounts, we have a ultimately "No-nothing, ask nothing" President now.

Science and technology issues will be on the low end of the scale, except when it comes to dismantling any gains we might make in those fields.

There goes the funding to all the science and tech places we know...and education in general.

We're reaping what we've sowed. Dumbasses now run this country.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 10:25am

Re: Re: Re: Re: The Best You Can Hope For ...
Three lefts make a right though. Conversely, three rights make a left. So the senate, the house, and the president all being right wing means we'll have more leftist policies.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 10:43am

Re:
Only an ignorant person has faith in humanity!

Better to stick with Hope instead!
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 10:43am

Re: Re:
There is no such thing anymore.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 10:44am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
As for birth being a line, I would call it as much of a ruse as conception. If it lives inside the womb or outside should be irrelevant for what you percieve it as.

The viability of a fetus on its own is constantly changing as new technology gets better at keeping early births alive, but lets say 20-24 weeks and anything before that is not independently viable. Add in some extra safety margin to assure that specific situation doesn't result in an independently viable fetus being aborted et voila. We have the current legislation.

I quite like the safety applied in using 3 months as the overall cutoff. Then you can quibble about specific circumstances that should provide exemptions in either direction, but overall the legislation is providing a good objective measure for balancing the right of the fetus versus the mother. Having it at conception is completely unenforceable and a purely theoretic construct (usually a woman won't even find out before about month after...). Also, what justification is there for murdering a mother when the fetus isn't viable?
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 10:44am

Re: Re: Re:
I believe that was the point!
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 10:46am

Re: The Best You Can Hope For ...
"everything he said during the campaign is ... bullshit"

Yes, incoherent babbling bullshit.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 10:47am

Re: The lie you know vs the truth you have to find out the hard way
Look at the bright side mr. sourpuss, the hate from Trump might successfully halt a lot of this terrible plans!

I have always loved a government at war with itself. It tends to put the war against the civilians on the back burner.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 10:53am

Re:
respect is earned, not given

If you do not understand this, perhaps a dictionary would be of assistance.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 10:57am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: No lube it is
If you're not for us, you're against us. That's how the world works. If I like Trump and you don't, you must be licking one of the Clintons' buttholes. If I like Hillary and you don't, you must pray to the Orange God of Yammering.

If you haven't figured this out, you're stupider than .
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 10:59am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Something about lead poisoning ... they were ignorant of the dangers. And of course - we don't need no stinkin scientists telling us about the potential dangers inherent in the things we do .. because reasons!!!!!!
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 11:01am

Re: Re:
This is the type of self granted entitlement people should expect from many Trumpettes in the next 4 - 8 years.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 11:08am

Re: Re: Re:
Government small enough to fit in your vagina ...

This makes sense because it's then much easier for Trump to grab your pussy with his small hands.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 11:08am

Re:
Many people seems to hope that the crazy garbage Trump spewed was a confirmation of his independence from the kleptocratic economic bonds between the two parties and specific economic interests.

When he has to cooperate with the senate and house, he will need to be more accomodating and cooperative.

What worries me is his lack of ability to accept that he may be wrong and his advisors. Those things could really set USA back to the stoneage...
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 11:11am

Re: Re: Re: Re: The elites are shocked, shocked that 50% of the voters are below average
Math is hard!
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 11:13am

Re: Advisers?
Idiocracy was supposed to be satire, not a documentary
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Lawrence D’Oliveiro, 9 Nov 2016 @ 11:27am

Re: USA! USA! USA!
Which could be so easily (mis)heard as “You ass, eh!”
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Lawrence D’Oliveiro, 9 Nov 2016 @ 11:30am

Re: So what is the magic point that the tumor becomes a human life?
When it becomes capable of independent existence. People are not parasites.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 11:39am

Re: Re: Re:
Look at the bright side. If the cycle continues, in 4 to 8 years we will elect a Democrat President. When that happens, You can blame everything that guy does wrong on Trump, just like you did during Obama's Presidency to Bush.

It's something anyway....
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Dirkmaster (profile), 9 Nov 2016 @ 11:40am

Re: No lube it is
Lube?? Lube?? It's Super-Polygrip and birdseed time, folks!
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Dirkmaster (profile), 9 Nov 2016 @ 11:47am

Re: None of this will matter to the victims

Oh please. And Obama is gonna take away your guns/ammo/etc.

Please, take your meds, sit down and shut up.
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PaulT (profile), 9 Nov 2016 @ 11:55am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Well, your sources seem questionable if the one you linked is the least biased, especially if all you've done is look at random Google results. Like I say, this kind of claim is usually the whining of right-wingers in my experience, so you're going to get a lot of blogs as such geared toward that audience. Of course you're going to get claims that the Democrats are worse.

This is usually where I'd ask for a reliable citation, but since you're only searching around yourself I'd just ask you to consider your sources. I've hung around for years reading the claims made by both sides, and this is the sort of stuff that's usually lodged between claims that gay marriage means the end of heterosexual marriage and that Obama's going to take all your guns tomorrow.

"But most people see "big government" as how much power the government has, not it's physical size.. as in the size of the military."

They don't understand that a lot of that power comes from the strength of its military? Especially now that its toys are tending to filter down to civilian police forces? Weird. I'd have thought that people concerned with big government would care about the military, whether in terms of size, power or financial cost.

"I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just pointing out what i read."

That's fine. Just take steps to make sure you're not accidentally reading from the fiction section of the library.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 12:27pm

Re: One small silver lining that no one mentoined...
His opposition to the TPP is one of the major reasons I voted fro Trump over his opponent.

The simple fact of the matter is that the TPP would have enshrined massive copyright idiocy for decades (amongst a whole HOST of other bad shit), if not forever, and by electing El Trumpo, we dodged one hell of a bullet.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 12:35pm

Re: Re: One small silver lining that no one mentoined...
Are you implying that "the right thing" would be supporting the TPP? I don't think that idea will get much traction around here, friend.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 12:39pm

Re: Re: Re: None of this will matter to the victims
Which death threats? The massive majority of them were from Democrats to Trump, as evidenced by all the violence committed against Trump supporters after our complicit media tried to brand him a modern Hitler.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 12:52pm

Re: Re:
Or Futurama although that is the head of a certain former president and a thousand years in the future.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 12:58pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: No lube it is
Welcome to the end of democracy. Stability must be assured and the best way to assure that is doing away with your political opponents. If you are for us, that is not a problem...
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 12:59pm

Re: One small silver lining that no one mentoined...
Now the party of Big Business for Big Business that goes by the name of the Republican Party have control of everything at the Federal level I expect that the TPP which was written by Big Business for Big Business will go ahead as planned with the reasons stated in an above post.

To expect Donald Trump, one of the worst examples of the "Elites" or the "1%" to do anything else but entrench the power & control of the ruling classes (those with the most money & power) over the population via all means possible is absolutely insane. He has a proven track record through running his own businesses in treating those below him with contempt.

More private prisons, more police power, more rules & regulations for the people whilst reducing laws (nasty Red & Green tape) & taxes for the ultra rich is the state of Nirvana for those at the top. And if you poor people don't benefit well it's your own fault for not working hard enough! An oldie but a goldie as it works every time.

For those that got on-board the Trump train, it will be forever stuck in the train station as the Trump jet flies overhead with just enough seats for his select mates.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 1:06pm

Re: Re: None of this will matter to the victims
I'm actually thinking that won't be much of a problem anymore.... the whole "gun" issue. With at least one, more likely 2 to 3 SCOTUS pics over the next 8 years, we won't have to worry about that for a very VERY long time......
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 1:16pm

Re: Re: One small silver lining that no one mentoined...
"Now the party of Big Business for Big Business that goes by the name of the Republican Party have control of everything at the Federal level I expect that the TPP which was written by Big Business for Big Business will go ahead as planned with the reasons stated in an above post."

LOL. You been stuck in a hole somewhere for 8 years or something? The Democrats now carry the "big business" title. Trump is anti globalist, anti TPP, pro American Exceptionalism... Hell, he wants to put a 35% to 45% tariff on goods produced with jobs that American companies have outsourced. The minimum wage, 34 hours a week so we don't have to pay benefits companies like Walmart, are not very happy right now...

I think you got your shit backasswards my man.....
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 1:33pm

Re: Re:
It's "RESPECT MAH AUTHORITAAAHHHHH"
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 1:36pm

Re: Re: Dammit
If the traditional media hadn't been full of lies, damned lies, and statistics, they'd have never had an opening.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 1:44pm

Re: Re: Re: None of this will matter to the victims
It's not about judging any single source, but about finding multiple sources THAT DISAGREE WITH EACH OTHER. Once you do that you can start working to sort the grain o' truth from the chaff.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 1:51pm

Re: Re: Sorry Mike...
Bollocks. The Hillary bias was clear to all lately. But it's OK, we love you anyway, or else we wouldn't be here. You are special, you matter, and the world is better for you being in it.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 2:00pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
"Biologically speaking"

That's the fucking problem, anti-abortioners aren't speaking about biology, they're speaking about a SOUL. There is no common ground, and both sides are CORRECT in their logic. They just start with different assumptions.

The only good solution is Roman style gladiatorial combat. If you want an abortion, you must first slice the guts out of this rabid anti-abortioner trying to kill you.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 2:04pm

Re:
Stein was pretty good. Probably why she ended up in last place. Johnson would have been decent too, if he wasn't a TPP supporting shitbird.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 2:12pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: AMERICAN DEMOCRACY
Am I... Are WE witnessing the birth of a new TimeCube?

YOU ARE EDUCATED STUPID! BELLY BUTTON LOGIC WORKS. WHEN DO TEENAGERS DIE? BIBLE A LIE & WORD A LIE. NAVEL CONNECTS 4 CORNER 4s.

BELLY BUTTON IS THE SIGNATURE OF YOUR CREATOR! I BELIEVE HER NAME MAMA.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 2:14pm

Re: Nuclear weapons
Ironically, one reason I voted for trump was that he's NOT a warmonger like Hillary "Get the Russians!" Clinton
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Lawrence D’Oliveiro, 9 Nov 2016 @ 2:42pm

Re: they're speaking about a SOUL.
Fine. So how many souls does an embryo have?

Hint: identical twins come from a single embryo.

Also look up chimeras, who are individuals created from multiple fused embryos.
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blademan9999 (profile), 9 Nov 2016 @ 2:58pm

Re: Re: Re: Sorry Mike...
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20160828/00123635369/clinton-campaign-happily-using-strong-end-to- end-encryption-to-communicate-will-they-let-rest-us-use-it-too.shtml
Here
https://www.techdirt.com/art icles/20160906/07312135444/fbi-publishes-clinton-email-investigation-documents-more-bad-news-documen ts-mishandling-foia-compliance.shtml
and here.

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20160920/17320635580/hillary-clinton-to-silicon-valley-nerd-h arder-nerds.shtml
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20161014/23031835799/hillary-clintons-staff-recog nize-she-doesnt-understand-encryption-is-supporting-impossible.shtml
And here are to from Mike Masonic himself.

You have to deny reality to believe that Mike saw Hillary as anything better then possibly the very slightly lesser of two VERY big evils.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 3:06pm

Re: Re: Re: One small silver lining that no one mentoined...
Trump will do whatever his party's financial backers tell him to do. As the Republicans are backed by Big Business all the way, no Lefty-Pinko Labour Unions putting their money here sir (CEO unions excepted), there is only one outcome for the TPP & that is a great big pass all the way through. Other right wing governments in the Pacific are depending on it as their financial backers are expecting that all that hard work they put in to gain total control of not just the marketplace but governments too isn't going to go to waste.

How did President Obama go when his wishes went against the wishes of the Republican controlled corridors of power? The same way President Trump's wishes will go, straight into the dustbin of history & once again Trump can blame someone else as it's never ever his fault things don't happen like he said they would.

If by now you don't understand that Trump is a very successful "Snake-oil salesman/serial liar/bullshit artist" who will say anything his audience wants to hear despite his products being nothing like he is advertising then you will find out soon enough.

There are plenty of examples from all around the world where this form of lying to all & sundry from "Right Wing" politicians just to get into power has been very successful using the "scapegoat/bogeyman" attack plan. If you are on a good thing why change?

FYI, kissing cousins Laura Norder & Jobson Growthe have been very busy doing the rounds at many elections recently.
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Not an Electronic Rodent (profile), 9 Nov 2016 @ 3:21pm

Re: Re: Dammit
Yeah, thought we'd aced it... but you had to go trump it, didn't you?
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Padpaw (profile), 9 Nov 2016 @ 3:25pm

I think Trump was the better choice of the 2 solely because he will doe insane things that will force the majority of Americans to wake up to the fact they need to fix their country not keep waiting for it to fix itself.

Clinton in my view would have continued the slow boiling the frog in the pot routine. I much prefer the cook who puts a frog into an already boiling pot.
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Padpaw (profile), 9 Nov 2016 @ 3:26pm

Re:
that was going to happen either way with these 2 candidates
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Padpaw (profile), 9 Nov 2016 @ 3:28pm

Re:
We already have a problem with too many immigrants wanting to come to Canada. I doubt very many will get on top of the existing problems
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Padpaw (profile), 9 Nov 2016 @ 3:33pm

Re:
making it so the police are completely uncountable for their actions make them less safe. As the public will view the laws that protect them being useless when it comes to the police. Most will start attacking or killing cops as form of revenge since no longer believe the system will protect them.

Good police want there to be accountability for their actions. Without it, it becomes a free for all.
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John Mayor, 9 Nov 2016 @ 4:07pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: AMERICAN DEMOCRACY
Nobody's going to, because NOBODY CAN!... ijit! And I'll place on my scripts whatever the h*ll I desire!... moron!
.
Please!... no emails!
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John Mayor, 9 Nov 2016 @ 4:20pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: AMERICAN DEMOCRACY
So... tell me!... how many children-- daily!-- beat you up, in public school, and highschool, before you quit school? I'm guessing these were "bloody affairs"!... and filled with much physical pain, and emotional angst! But!... that's what you get for being an *sshole! Better fortune next life! Twit!
.
Please!... no emails!
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 4:24pm

Re: Re:
There's no reasoning with Whatever. Any time it's suggested that the police restrain themselves just a little bit he's going to trot out "muh feels" because he and an organization of full grown men armed to the teeth get offended at the sight of a smartphone camera and become incapable of rational thought or "doing their jobs". Outside of pumping unarmed citizens full of lead, which they'd do anyway with or without an iPhone aimed in their direction.
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John Mayor, 9 Nov 2016 @ 4:27pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: AMERICAN DEMOCRACY
TimeCube? NO!... I'M WITNESSING the birth of a P-I-N-H-E-A-D!
.
Please!... no emails!
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John Mayor, 9 Nov 2016 @ 4:43pm

Re: Re: AMERICAN DEMOCRACY
Well!... there you go! And so!... who's going to make it into one? Who's going to articulate/ argue the "Principles of Democracy" before a COMPETENT COURT, in order to have a court declare, that-- for example!-- this just completed U.S. Federal Election was a S-H-A-M!... A-N-D A S-H-A-M-E!... and, is in need of being declared UNCONSTITUTIONAL, and a breach of sundry TORT DECISIONS?
.
Unless someone acts to expose the INJUSTICE of the current ELECTIONS PROCESS, citizens are P-I-S-S-I-N-G I-N T-H-E W-I-N-D, when comes to redressing the reality of their "DEMOCRACY (so-called!)"!
.
And lastly... and in addition to challenging the results of this recent Federal Election!... there is a need to pay close attention to Trump's SET court for December, re allegations of CHILD ABUSE!
.
Please!... no emails!
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John Mayor, 9 Nov 2016 @ 4:51pm

Re: Re: AMERICAN DEMOCRACY
No!... but you can take off one of your shoes and wack it over your head! That ought to "clear up" any DELUSIONAL MISCONCEPTIONS as to W-H-O is "butthurt", and in need of some "emotional support"! Ha, ha, ha!... snork, snork! W-H-A-T A G-O-O-F!
.
Please!... no emails!
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 5:35pm

The other Asia-Pacific countries that form the TPP are cheering. The chance that American Big Corps and Special Interests had to rewrite local laws is almost gone. That alone is worth celebrating.
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Mike Masnick (profile), 9 Nov 2016 @ 11:43pm

Re: Re: Re: Sorry Mike...
The Hillary bias was clear to all lately.

I'm legitimately curious: can you point to a single example of "the Hillary bias" because it didn't exist. I've been pretty consistent all along that she was a horrible candidate on basically every issue we care about.

I don't know why some people can't get it through their heads that just because Trump looks like a disaster, that doesn't mean I didn't also think Clinton was a disaster.
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Anonymous Coward, 9 Nov 2016 @ 11:59pm

Re: Re:
Shouldn't that be respect is to be earned, not demanded.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Nov 2016 @ 12:32am

11. Transparency
We're going to see a new era in government transparency with Trump making it mandatory to film every action of govmt employees like its a reality TV show !
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PGP, 10 Nov 2016 @ 5:31am

Re: Re: Re: AMERICAN DEMOCRACY
Your message isn't encrypted.
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Wendy Cockcroft (profile), 10 Nov 2016 @ 5:33am

Re: Ah crapbaskets...
Glyn Moody brought my attention to a new one called RCEP which is even worse than TPP and includes China. We need to get eyes on this — and lots of attention. I'm not sure whether Lori Wallach knows about it yet.
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Wendy Cockcroft (profile), 10 Nov 2016 @ 5:37am

Re: What it means
Settle down; Trump could end up being lame-ducked in the mid-term elections two years from now. All he has to do is actually try to keep the promises he made. His party's infighting, Democrat obstructionism, and social unrest will take care of the rest. If I'm right, he'll limp out of office four years from now with a face like a slapped behind.
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Wendy Cockcroft (profile), 10 Nov 2016 @ 5:42am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Sorry Mike...
Mike, when you hear the sound of cymbals, harps, flutes, and assorted musical instruments, you must bow down the giant orange idol they have made or they will throw you into a den of lions.

Look mate, when the music starts up, just bend down and pretend to tie your shoelaces. Nobody will notice the difference. /s
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Wendy Cockcroft (profile), 10 Nov 2016 @ 5:50am

Re: BINGO!
You win the car, the holiday, and a cuddly toy.

I'm expecting Trump to crash the good ship USA into the rocks within two years, after which he'll drag his lame duck rear end through the next two years due to partisan obstruction and GOP infighting followed by social unrest. It'll get worse before it gets better but by God it needed to happen. Hopefully the system will reset and everything will then get better.

Memo: think for yourselves!
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Wendy Cockcroft (profile), 10 Nov 2016 @ 5:52am

Re: RCEP
RCEP is waiting in the wings. We need eyes on this so let's be looking out for reports on its progress. TPP was a stalking horse, this is the one to watch.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Nov 2016 @ 6:57am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: AMERICAN DEMOCRACY
Nobody's going to, because NOBODY CAN!

C-H-E-C-K Y-O-U-R I-N-B-O-X F-U-C-K-F-A-C-E
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Nov 2016 @ 7:01am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: AMERICAN DEMOCRACY
Please!... no emails!

Do you mean, "please, no emails" as in "kindly refrain from sending me an email"

-or-

"please. no emails" as in "Please (responding to an unrelated question). I don't currently have any emails." (two separate thoughts)
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Nov 2016 @ 7:08am

Re: Re: Re: Re: One small silver lining that no one mentoined...
I'm not sure where your getting your information from, but it's dead wrong. The middle working class Americans voted Trump in. It was their way of telling the globalist elitist to fuck off. Your assumptions and old politics views work well for a hard line Republicans, but that's not what we elected. Loosen up your tinfoil hat man, it's killing your brain cells.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Nov 2016 @ 2:04pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: One small silver lining that no one mentoined...
The globalist elite own the republican party & elitist Goldman Sachs executives are already lining up to be the financial advisors to the next president. The forgotten people of the USA elected Trump to be the next president & he will soon forget the forgotten people as they don't have wads of cash to woo him in his views. So the forgotten people can tell the rich & powerful globalist elite to fuck off all they like but they are still in control & won't give that control up to the poor people unless they come & chop their heads off (aka French Revolution). What's the point of amassing large sums of money if you can't buy & own the right people in government to get more power & money? That's the American dream after all, he who dies with the most money & stuff wins! (a better coffin, LOL)

Now that the votes have been counted there is no need to give anything in return as 70yo Trump is too old to worry about a second term as he will age so fast that it won't be worth his effort to go for another 4 years. Plus he can't upgrade to a newer model wife for the next four years, bummer, but so much free pussy to grab as he shows them some nice furniture. His resume will say he was President of the USA & it doesn't matter in the history books whether he did one term or two terms.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Nov 2016 @ 2:25pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: One small silver lining that no one mentoined...
I'll take off my tinfoil hat when you take off your rose colored glasses.
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Anonymous Coward, 10 Nov 2016 @ 3:46pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: One small silver lining that no one mentoined...
I think you got a little spittle on your screen there screwball. The rich "elitist" are pissed as hell at trump right now. He's threatened China, Mexico, and the Industry heads in the U.S. He's already talking about tariffs and sanctions for moving U.S. jobs outside the country, protectionism and isolationism are his buzzwords right now. I think you need to catch up a bit, your views of the Right are old school. Actually, your views of the Right look very Left right now lol.
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Mike Masnick (profile), 10 Nov 2016 @ 4:21pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: One small silver lining that no one mentoined...
I think you got a little spittle on your screen there screwball. The rich "elitist" are pissed as hell at trump right now.

So pissed they're all lining up to be in his administration.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/11/11/us/politics/lobbyists-trump.html http://www.pol itico.com/tipsheets/politico-influence/2016/11/lobbyists-abound-on-trump-transition-217349
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Anonymous Coward, 11 Nov 2016 @ 5:54am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: One small silver lining that no one mentoined...
"So pissed they're all lining up to be in his administration."

I said they were pissed Mike, I didn't say they were stupid.
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Anonymous Coward, 11 Nov 2016 @ 9:19am

Re: Canadian immigration
Amy Schumer already said she was just joking. Wouldn't be the first time she had to clue anyone in on that.
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Anonymous Coward, 12 Nov 2016 @ 1:00pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: One small silver lining that no one mentoined...
Obviously not as stupid as the voters for believing the biggest bullshit artist the world has seen. It will take another 4 years before the forgotten people will be remembered again.
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