How Twitter Suspended The Account Of One Of Our Commenters... For Offending Himself?
from the come-on,-jack dept
If you spend any time at all in Techdirt's comments, you should be familiar with That Anonymous Coward. He's a prolific and regular commenter (with strong opinions). He also spends a lot of time on Twitter. Well, at least until a week or so ago when Twitter suspended his account. It's no secret that Twitter has been getting a lot of pressure from people to be more proactive in shutting down and cutting off certain accounts. There are even a bunch of people who claim that Twitter should suspend the President's account -- though we think that would be a really bad idea.
As we've pointed out in the past, people who demand that sites shut down and suspend accounts often don't realize how difficult it is to do this at scale and not fuck up over and over again. Indeed, we have plenty of stories about sites having trouble figuring out what content is really problematic. Indeed, frequently these stories show that the targets of trolls and abusers are the ones who end up suspended.
You can read TAC's open letter to Jack Dorsey, which also includes an account of what happened. In short, over a year ago, TAC responded to something Ken "Popehat" White had tweeted, and referred to himself -- a gay man -- as "a faggot." Obviously, many people consider this word offensive. But it's quite obvious from how it was used here that this was a situation of someone using the word to refer to himself and to reclaim the slur.
Twitter then demanded that he delete the tweet and "verify" his phone number. TAC refused both requests. First, it was silly to delete the tweet because it's clearly not "hateful content" given the context. Second, as someone who's whole point is being "Anonymous" giving up his phone number doesn't make much sense. And, as he notes in his open letter, people have tried to sue him in the past. There's a reason he stays pseudononymous:
Why do I have to supply a cell phone number to get back on the platform? I've been a user for 5 years and have never used a cell phone to access your service. I am a nym, but I am an established nym. I own the identity & amazingly there are several hundred people following my nym. I interact with the famous & infamous, they tweet back to me sometimes. I survived a few lawsuits trying to get my real name from platforms, because I called Copyright Trolls extortionists... they were offended & tried to silence me with fear of lawsuits. I'm still a nym, they've been indicted by the feds. There are other Copyright Trolls who dislike me, so staying a nym is in my best interest.
TAC also points out the general inconsistencies in Twitter's enforcement, noting that other slurs are not policed, and even the slur that caused his account to be shut down (over a year after he used it) did not lead to other accounts facing the same issues.
Incredibly, TAC points out that he appealed the suspension... and Twitter trust and safety rejected the appeal. It was only on the second appeal -- and seven days later -- that Twitter recognized its mistake and restored his account.
Now, some may be quick to blame Twitter for this mess, but it again seems worth pointing out what an impossible situation this is. Platforms like Twitter are under tremendous pressure to moderate out "bad" content. But people have very little understanding of two important things: (1) the scale at which these platforms operate, and (2) how difficult it is to determine what's "bad" -- especially without full context. The only way to handle reports and complaints at scale is to either automate the process, hire a ton of people, or both. And no matter which choice you make, serious mistakes are going to be made. AI is notoriously bad at understanding context. People are under pressure to go through a lot of content very quickly to make quick judgments -- which also doesn't bode well for understanding context.
So, once again, we should be pretty careful what we ask for when we demand that sites be quicker about shutting down and suspending accounts. You might be surprised who actually has their accounts shut down. That's not to say sites should never suspend accounts, but the rush to pressure companies into doing so represents a fundamental misunderstanding of how such demands will be handled. TAC's week-long forced sabbatical is just a small example of those unintended consequences.
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Filed Under: censorship, content moderation, speech, takedowns, that anonymous coward, trust and safety
Companies: twitter
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Don't Care
The moment you make the claim that you want to stop "hate" then you just took on that mantle of defeating hate with your only consolation prize becoming a platform of what you seek to stop. Why? Because that now become what you are, and what you are talked about.
It is not possible to say or do anything without risking it being hateful... and people who can't recognize that deserve all the hate they get.
Twitter made itself into a platform of hate, one that seeks to marginalize one group to the benefit of another. The more you try to silence them... the louder they get!
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Re: Don't Care
Dislike a word? Filter it.
Think that users a tool? Block them.
Reporting shouldn't be a weapon, it should be more like 911 when something serious is happening... not because McD's is out of fscking nuggets.
Because everyone has a different level of comfort its impossible to have a single approach, and in trying to do it you just piss both sides off a bit more each time.
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I was beyond angry, but I knew screaming would get me no where. I wish I had saved the text of the first appeal, because I'm pretty sure I went deep into the I asked myself if calling myself faggot offended me and I told myself it didn't so what was the problem.
Finding out after the fact that this was the work of people trying to "win" some sort of twitter war, that even in the most generous history of I am nearly completely uninvolved in. (I think a couple times when someone retweet stupid shit they said I might have inquired who they paid to remind them to breathe.)
But this braintrust decided I was someone else...
These aren't the first morons to do this, I doubt they will be the last cause I have a tendency to mock stupid when I see it.
In my history I've been accused of being...
7 lawyers, a woman, 3 other twitter people...
Now I get I'm a mysterious nym, but I've always been truthful... I don't have a JD (I'm just smarter than stupid lawyers), I'm the gay one, and I only use a single nym when I comment on things.
I'm TAC on TD, Ars, Boingboing, Wordpress, Popehat, Twitter, and other places I am sure I am forgetting. TAC was a topic specific nym that grew into something more. I don't need alts or sock puppets to do what I do, its hard enough keeping up with being me.
The single "good" thing that came out of this is seeing how dependent I am on Twitter for social contact. The last couple of days on my exile were getting very rough for me, anyone whos followed me on Twitter knows that I'm on an anti-depressant to deal with my depression & anxiety. Being cut off from my social circles went over the top of any of the relief the drugs give me. It's not a feeling I want to experience again.
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It really is a dilemma: the social networks are big, unwieldy, and run by people who don't have your best interests in mind. But they're also where the people are. Small community messageboards and personal blogs have declined, and distributed/FOSS platforms attempting to duplicate the functionality of Twitter, Facebook, et al have failed to grow outside a niche community of enthusiasts.
I don't know what the best solution is for you; everybody's different and I wouldn't presume to tell you what to do.
The solution for me is, I never signed up for a social network after MySpace. No Twitter, no Facebook; I've got a blog I don't update much, and a messageboard and a handful of comments sections where I'm a regular. It works for me, mostly, though that messageboard has sure gotten quiet as people have migrated to Twitter and other similar platforms.
Best of luck and glad you got your account back.
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They promise they can keep you from being offended, it's not possible.
Twitter has 2 amazing tools but seems to refuse to make people use them.
Filter - if you hate some words, you never have to see them again.
Block - This person is an ass & you never want to see anything they say.
The problem is the sporting event of letting people score points by forcing others off the platform.
A group of people reported my tweet from a year ago & no one cared to look until I made it clear I was not backing down. I don't get to know if there is any sort of punishment for them doing this, but they got to celebrate taking me out.
If Twitter stopped trying to be the parent & told people to use the tools they have things would get better. Me saying faggot bothers you?? Why don't you have the word filtered, why haven't you blocked me, why did you have to troll my timeline back a YEAR to find something to be offended by? They sought me out & then punished me for something that fit the "rules" of winning a report takedown.
I don't FB, I twitter a lot. I have a community I feel a part of, I speak my mind & I even chat with people who say things I disagree with. I've blocked a few people but those are the ones that barged into my TL to spew crap & rather than give them a cookie for pissing me off by responding... I blocked and moved on. To many people are slamming the lever to get a point & being rewarded.
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Being able to block people helps a lot, though. Hell, I wrote a GreaseMonkey script just so I could tune out all the trolls here.
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If you find my use of faggot offensive you never have to see it, there is then no reason to up the ante by reporting me. Your personal offense to my tweets doesn't rise to the level of needing to silence me.
Amazingly I've used faggot more lately than I have in like the last 5 years.
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I won't know if they block me or filter the word, so they don't get that rush of joy.
I dunno how filtering works on the twitters, it might supress entire tweets with the word in them.
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But those are not tools that will be used by those who have to have something to hate, and cannot stand the idea it might be going on out of their site. The only tools acceptable to those people is removal of the content and silencing of the source. They are also the people who make a lot of noise about what offends them, and that gives them much more power over society than quietly avoiding the offensive.
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Enabling those behaviors is what broke it all.
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So one day he recommends to women that they punch a certain individual and to nobody's surprise he gets reported.
Giving anyone the power to shut down speech on the grounds that they find it offensive is a bad idea because it can easily be turned against the very people it was supposed to protect. Better to block and ignore than to go on crusade to shut people up.
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Look on the bright side: At least no one has accused you of being Donald Trump.
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The problem with "hate speech" is that it's infectuous. First people's attention span is too short to realize that you are actually talking about yourself here. Second it takes a bout of analysis (many people are not capable of particularly in a "dehumanized" medium like forums) that you are not actually indulging in self-hatred here (hear some religious far-right women talk about, well, women for example) that works particularly destructively since there is an implied condonement involved.
I mean, if you don't want to have people call others "niggers" in a derogatory manner, how are you going to deal with themselves addressing one another as "niggahz"?
Are you going to draw a fine line at different spelling when the similarity is intended?
How if you had chosen to call yourself a "faggod"?
"Turnabout is fair play" and all that, but it's still pretty much the same, isn't it? If you want to make somewhat reliable rules, there is little doubt that they will often apply to what is intentionally similar.
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Rather than rushing in with suspensions & demanding tweets be deleted, they need to stop playing the savior role.
If the F word offends them, there is a filter they could use.
But Twitter has given into the they should be silenced for hate speech crowd.
We've given in to the idea that no one should ever be offended by something they see, and this isn't a way to have a society.
For me, people who didn't follow me went hunting for a tweet to report... it was over a year old. They didn't care I called myself the F word, they wanted me silenced (b/c they thought I was someone else b/c they are very stupid).
They might have done better finding my tweets about infecting Congress with the marburg virus, but the F word gets a rise out of people terrified that they will be called non-saviors of teh gays.
If I am walking down the street and Westboro is protesting, I can't force the powers that be to silence them, my options are to ignore them and move on or maybe try to counter protest. If I am truly shaken I might even track their announced protests so I don't run into them.
Just b/c we can get Twitter to silence people for "crimes" doesn't mean we should, especially since these "crimes" are subjective. The technology exists, but is prone to abuse.
Dislike a word, filter it... someone works around that & it bothers you ignore them. Don't give into the 'ha ha ha I got you suspended so I am winning' mentality.
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Nym [was Re: ]
Wiktionary: Nym
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lern 2 googlez
Done.
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out_of_the_blue?
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But enough talk! Have at you!
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the coddled "safe space" crybaby generation
Twitter seems to be the most draconian of the soclal media sites, and by many things Jack Dorsey has said, this was no accident.
If Jack Dorsey wants to make Twitter a giant "safe space" for the thin skinned, that's his right. He might not realize though, that safe-space nirvana can never be attained, despite massive and never ending purges, because these coddled adult-children will always find something else to get upset about when they know that crying and wailing always gets them whatever they want.
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Re: the coddled "safe space" crybaby generation
HAVE YOU EVEN TWITTERED, BRO?!?!?!?
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So the homo isn't marginalized anymore?!?!
WHY DID NO ONE TELL ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: the coddled "safe space" crybaby generation
Twitter seems to be the most draconian of the soclal media sites, and by many things Jack Dorsey has said, this was no accident.
To be fair, Twitter used to be the exact opposite. It was the least willing to do anything. Their execs coined the "we're the free speech wing of the free speech party" line.
And what happened? They got TOTALLY SLAMMED for it, with people attacking them from every direction about how they were aiding and abetting abuse, harassment and worse. And so they got pressured into moving in the other direction, which brings us to where we are today. So I find it difficult to blame the company for where things are. They tried the other way and were basically told "that's no good."
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Re: Re: the coddled "safe space" crybaby generation
Twitter Management overcompensated for the abuse its service's protocols enabled by trying too hard to prevent or stop it. Had they created and allowed basic users access to tools that could help mitigate harassment—tools such as the Content Warning system used in the Mastodon protocol and the wordfilters that came years too late to mitigate this shit—when the service was initially facing criticism, maybe Twitter might not be the flaming hellbird it is today.
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Well, part of the problem there was the whole retweet functionality, which later included the quote-retweet function: Unless you intentionally blocked an account, people you follow could always (quote-)retweet stuff from that account into your timeline anyway. Turning off retweets from people you follow was a nice tool for the vanilla retweet function—even though that came years after it would have done some good, and the tool still requires you to turn them off one-by-one for every individual person you follow.
Twitter runs on activity. It needs people to interact with the site in ways Twitter wants. Retweets of any kind create activity, and what spreads faster on social media than outrage? (Rhetorical question; the answer is cat videos.) Shit, just look at our current president: He drives more attention to and creates more activity on Twitter than virtually anyone else in the world. Not even dril, the high holy god of Weird Twitter, gets as much traffic and exposure as President Orange Fanta.
Avoiding trolls also gets into the issue of the site moderation not doing enough to make its community a better place. Yes, moderation does not scale well, and Twitter is large enough that its moderation team cannot moderate everything and everyone with the nuance and surgical precision that someone who runs a forum with a couple hundred members could pull off. But they can—and should—be doing a better job than this. And they should have been doing a better job back when GamerGate was at its peak.
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Especially as a large site is not a single community, but many communities which vary in what is acceptable language and behavior.
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Few people objected when reddit's questionably illegal stuff, like hacked nude photos, got shuttered. Then it was the silly fake-news stuff like Pizzagate discussions that got shut down. And now things that are perfectly legal (and many people consider perfectly ethical) such as gun-related discussions are getting censored off Reddit. So it's been a predictable mission creep, and where it goes in the future is anyone's guess.
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Re: Re: the coddled "safe space" crybaby generation
They were stupid if they never knew anything about trolls - many of which are the most stubborn and determined people imaginable. It's been laughable to watch such major boondoggles like the AI "Tay Tweets" that ended up exactly as most every troll in the world knew it would eventually end up.
It's been a major problem with almost every online "thing" ever invented: it seems no one ever takes the time to try to figure out how it can possible be abused -- and design in safeguards from the very beginning. And it's not as if Twitter was the first messaging system to ever come out. They could have learned a great deal if they'd only taken the time to look into the recent past.
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Re: Re: Re: the coddled "safe space" crybaby generation
The DMCA is easily abused, and any reporting system made available to the general public will be abused even more.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: the coddled "safe space" crybaby generation
That includes Techdirt's flagging feature, which i think is constantly abused. I agree that the "natural person" poster is a babbling fool, but I hate having to ply through the page code to see what he said that caused such an explosion of responses. I'd much rather see everything than have a user's posts censored because a few Techdirt 'regulars' have gotten tired of seeing the same lame arguments over and over. The only real need for hiding/deleting posts is in the case of flooding, when someone spews out hundreds or thousands of posts that lay waste to the entire discussion.
That's not to criticise Techdirt, as it's one of the very few places that doesn't over-moderate discussions with the typical "MY house - MY rules" authoritarianism that seems to permeate most online discussion forums (and most that start out promising to be free speech havens gradually get more and more restrictive).
But back to Twitter ... there are a number of twitterers, some working as large coordinated teams, who are on a crusade to stamp out things they don't like, knowing that flooding Twitter management with (frequently exaggerated) complaints gets results. We've also started seeing the emergence of people who troll even harder as a form of protest against Twitter's heavy-handedness. It'll be interesting to see where all this leads in the next few years.
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Ummm look a bit closer on the page & see the magic line that says the community decided this comment adds nothing click here to reveal it...
Might I suggest threaded mode to make it easier to follow the crazy.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the coddled "safe space" crybaby generat
You might have missed the recent discussions concerning Javascript Refuseniks (an oppressed group who are by the way under constant attack by the copyright mafiaa who keep eradicating the Youtube video downloading sites that they depend on)
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If you want the site to function as you desire, either code a solution that can run in a userscript extension or buy the site.
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Another JavaScript Refusnick
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Riot Games had the same problem a while back when a player got accidentally banned for denigrating themselves in the third person. They managed to incorporate that incident into their system to make in-game chat less toxic, and the issue is presumably fixed. League Of Legends has millions of players all around the world. Not as many millions as Twitter has users, but I figure that once you get to the multi-million global level, a lot of the "How do you deal with this in a userbase of X scale?" problems start to even out in the way that they're solved.
What the hell has taken Twitter so long to figure out their own context-sensitive stuff?
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The tweet was amazingly clear about whom was calling whom a faggot.
Blowing off my first appeal by claiming I was violating the rule about directing hatred towards others, when I clearly pointed out that I was using the word towards only myself was stupid.
They have created a system that gives into people who game it to win points in their head, trying to have a single perfect system where no one ever sees a bad word.
Twitters problems are made worse because they are terrified of bad press about special group x complaining they aren't being protected, so they overreact to do more when doing less would accomplish more.
This wasn't a filter fail, this was a system fail.
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"For Offending Himself?"
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On the upside, I don't tweet out porn. :)
(NEVER CHECK MY FAVORITES)
I'd still love to know what the punishment for false reporting is.... but I doubt Twitter wants to give into me at this point.
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No, Corporations have 1st Amendment Right to control "platform"!
Even if wrong! There is NO other consideration than right of "platform", can control the content and outlet of any "natural" person's speech, sez Masnick, over and over.
Masnick is a rabid corporatist, doesn't care that Twitter and other multi-national "platforms" are becoming de facto censors -- of persons whom Masnick "politically" opposes.
But when it's the "right" person (not "conservative" or even "Republican"), Masnick reverses to oppose what persistently advocates.
Convenient, huh? Liberals and other corporatists have all the advantages, don't have to be consistent.
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Re: No, Corporations have 1st Amendment Right to control "platform"!
Let me know when you get back on the meds & can make a sentence that makes since.
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SO, "TAC": in practice you DO NOT support M_a_s_n_i_c_k's
notion that corporations have a Right to control YOUR speech.
No one SANE does!
You got LUCKY this time, but are now in thrall to Twitter!
Fear its arbitrary power. After all, Twitter didn't HAVE TO restore your account, EVEN IF WRONGLY suspended.
It's a Corporation with Rights. YOU are one little "natural" person, who could effectively be deprived of even ability to protest!
Are you going to object next time Masnick asserts that YOUR voice can silenced for any motive? (Won't be long until Masnick does, it's a compulsion.)
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Re: SO, "TAC": in practice you DO NOT support M_a_s_n_i_c_k's
And yet he loftily advises others to not play "whack-a-mole" over stoopy little fetishes!
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Here, have a SESTA vote.
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Re: SO, "TAC": in practice you DO NOT support M_a_s_n_i_c_k's
I understand Twitter can take its ball and go home at anytime. I didn't fall into the trap of 'ZOMG MAH FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS!!!' they aren't the government so in sane minds this isn't even a question. Maybe I hang out with far to many 1st Amendment lawyers on the twitters & learned stuff.
"Are you going to object next time Masnick asserts that YOUR voice can silenced for any motive?"
Ummm pookie... that you ever looked at my profile?
Back when we had them, 2 favorites of the week, several thousand posts, 8 submitted stories... Oh and this entire story about 1 crazy faggot suspended by Twitter... seems like he tolerates my speech & encourages it even if we disagree. Perhaps if you get back on the meds you'll understand that its the community that is tired of your pointless screaming into the void about things you imagine are happening to you because reality is a bridge to far for you to cross anymore.
Seek help.
(this is one of those fun times when I forget never engage with the freaks, I won't fix them & I'd be better off teaching a pig to whistle.)
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You know, the last time I checked, Twitter did not stop TAC from posting here on Techdirt, so it seems to be doing a shitty job of controlling their speech.
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You protest too much
Please shut up. I have had read through this thread and comments. You are peddling this whole "look how badly I have been treated" far too much. First world problem. Please grow up and shut up.You get us faggots a bad press and all us queers get tarred with the same brush as you whingeing queens.
By the way, in the supermarket where I buy food, they sell a delicious food called… faggots.
Cheers… Ishy
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Re: You protest too much
It wasn't so much about how badly I was treated as it was about the stupid system Twitter has created to try and make people happy who want nothing more than to force people they dislike to be silenced. Perhaps how fabulous I am overwhelmed your ability to comprehend.
The difference being Twitter silenced me & I have no idea who did it so I can call them fucktards for doing it.
You, you I can see wanting me silenced...
Fucktard.
If you'd read everything you'd have seen the we covered the food known as faggots already.
Thanks for commenting, glad I could irritate the fuck out of you, my day is now made.
TAC
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Re: Re: You protest too much
Though I have to hold my hand up and admit to missing the bit about faggots.
But as they say, scratch the surface…
Cheers, Ish
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Re: Re: Re: You protest too much
I was important enough for a group to target me to be silenced. Yes it was silenced because I was locked out of the platform until I admitted my guilt for something I didn't do & hand them the keys to my identity.
You might not want to hear what I have to say but I have 400 followers who seem to care...
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I say stuff that they agree with or will debate with me b/c I'm not a it's only right if its my way sort of guy.
You let me know when you add anything to society.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: You protest too much
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: You protest too much
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Re: You protest too much
Hi, queer person here.
Pull that stick out of your ass.
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It's enticing, but no thanks. I prefer my dignity.
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Re:
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Re:
www.cnet.com/news/cuomo-strong-arms-comcast-over-usenet/
www.nypost.com/2017/11/09/why-hollywo od-loves-andrew-cuomo/
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Re: Usenet
It is quite refreshing break from the hyper-moderated and censored web platforms, where you can say literally anything you want and no one's going to suspend your account or put you in cyber jail for it.
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But it NEVER bars people for hateful speech calling for the extermination of [insert group here] as long as they don't use "bad words".
apparently it's OK to call someone a child-eating, satan-worshipping, human blood drinking worm, but call them [bad word] and your account is closed.
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