Woman Charged With 'Obstructing Governmental Administration' For Filming Police From Her Front Yard
from the police-state dept
We've had a ton of stories recently about police reacting badly (and contrary to what the law says) when they discover that someone is filming some of their actions in public. Police keep trying to claim that doing so is illegal, and have even tried to claim that such video taping violates wiretapping laws. The latest such example is really bizarre. Boing Boing points us to a story of how a woman was arrested in Rochester, NY and charged with "obstructing government administration," all because she was filming a (questionable) traffic stop in front of her house. You can see the video below:What's really stunning is that prosecutors went forward with charges here. They must have known there was a video. I'm curious how anyone can claim that filming police is obstructing governmental administration.
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Filed Under: arrests, chilling effects, filming, police
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This is bad because the police must clearly be unobserved in order to serve justice. Why are you anti-justice, Mike?
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As an undergrad, studying "labor relations" you would not believe how many times the Hawthorne Effect was discussed. It's also why I know that the original study has been almost entirely debunked. That doesn't mean that being observed doesn't change people's behavior, but the Hawthorne Effect itself is quite a bit overstated...
This is bad because the police must clearly be unobserved in order to serve justice. Why are you anti-justice, Mike?
You figured me out. ;)
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> would not believe how many times the Hawthorne
> Effect was discussed.
Isn't that just applying the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle to people?
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In the case of people, the observation changes the rules the people follow, their motivations, their energy level, etc. They will "camp it up" for the camera, or some will "shy away".
In the case of police, they will argue that "when we are distracted, or thinking about someone filming instead of doing our jobs, we may do our jobs 'less perfectly'. Since safety and in fact life hangs in the balance, the distraction should be prohibited."
Of course, I don't buy that. The elevated power that police has, if abused, is also dangerous, and thus needs checks and balances to verify that it is being used fairly. An obvious goal should be transparency - anything police do should survive scrutiny. And since the enforcement of laws (on us) also hangs in the balance, our right to film what is publicly visible anyway is more important than their imagined 'right to operate invisibly'.
Gawd. What a world. We're moving towards gov't electronic espionage of the citizenry and warrantless wiretaps. Cameras are installed in every cop car. CC cameras recording us multiple times a day, all of which "can be used against you in a court of law", and the gov't thinks that is great. Yet if you try to film so that the evidence is available for the "defense", then they lose their shit. Seems backwards to me.
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She has a camera. Check.
The cops feel threatened at a citizen filming their activities? Check. (She was "shooting" at them with a "camera" after all)
Lesson for the day: Stay in your house when the police are outside (which is 24/7), because they might feel "threatened" by your presence and arrest you for not obeying their "orders", lawful or not. Check
Fear a government that fears and violates the people's rights. Check.
Well the police are quite familiar with the phrase "anything you say or do can be held against you in a court of law" and are well aware how an audio or video recording (when used as evidence... but not "their" evidence) can blow their whole case up in court, and possibly put them in the hot seat for not following the laws they are sworn to uphold.
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Asshole cops aside, when it's your ass on the line, you start to view things a bit differently.
The bigger asshole in this is the prosecutor.
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> viewed as hostile
Doesn't matter how simple the request is, if it's not legal, the police are not justified in making it or enforcing it. Illegal orders/requests don't become legal just because they're "simple".
> Asshole cops aside, when it's your ass on the
> line, you start to view things a bit differently.
Well, since I *am* a cop, I can speak authoritatively on the subject of how it feels, and I personally don't condone law-breaking and oppression justified by vague and self-serving claims of "I felt threatened".
If a woman on her front lawn with a camera makes you feel scared and unsafe, then perhaps you should reconsider policing as a vocation.
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If it's a simple request, then her refusal shouldn't have elicited more than a shrug and for the officer to move on and complete his duties, none of which involved this citizen in any way.
Asshole cops aside, when it's your ass on the line, you start to view things a bit differently.
Yes, you do. You look at clothing and behavior and use your training to judge where the dangers are in situations.
Sometimes this leads to not-awesome but understandable behavior, like my father-in-law showing up to my son's birthday party packing heat because we didn't live in a great neighborhood. Sometimes this leads to not-awesome and not-understandable behavior, like the one detailed in the post.
Tl;dr: His actions were inexcusable and he should be summarily fired to 'send a message' to those like him.
The bigger asshole in this is the prosecutor.
Agreed, but the presence of a larger asshole doesn't excuse the smelliness of lesser assholes.
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USA! USA! USA!
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Cops should walk around everywhere with their guns drawn and pointed at everyone, because anyone could be armed at any time and a deadly threat to themselves or others.
Moderation and common sense is the key, and this case looks more like "Do what I say lawful or not, or you're going to be arrested and thrown in jail on a charge we'll come up with later".
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Delusional paranoia.
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IO guess I fell victim to Poe's Law.
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...And don't forget to empty the clip into me!
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Re: Please people ... its this simple ...
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Actually, as this case shows:
The cop that assumes someone doesn't have a camera is a cop that will arrest people on trumped-up charges and be supported by his peers.
Sorry, Heph, but I FTFY. :/
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Damn that felt good.
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People, not just the police, need to behave as if they were being filmed any time they are in public. It has already been determined in court that there is no expectation of privacy when on a public street. I see no reason why a public employee, whether policeman or street sweeper, should enjoy special status. If they are behaving properly, there is nothing to fear from being taped.
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Anti-justice? Hmm...one innocent person is inappropriately stopped and searched and another innocent person gets arrested on a trumped up charge. You my friend, have a strange sense of justice ;)
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http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18956-just-what-we-need-
sarcasm-software.html
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Re: Hawthorne Effect
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That's the most important bit there. And it's unlikely that the DA who chose to prosecute the crap charge would then turn around and prosecute the cop.
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Consent laws
I might have this out of order, or incorrect information, but this is how it was explained by the judge at the court system where I interned...
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Re: Consent laws
Not that it really matters. It is still bogus to arrest people for filming the police.
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Re: Consent laws
I sure hope she takes it to trial because I seriously doubt they will find 12 people to convict her.
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It's easiest just to be angry at what the news channels tell us to dislike.
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"'Semi-public' spaces
A broader meaning of public space or place includes also places where everybody can come if they pay, like a café, train, or movie theater. A shop is an example of what is intermediate between the two meanings: everybody can enter and look around without obligation to buy, but activities unrelated to the purpose of the shop are not unlimitedly permitted."
Basically, places where you don't have the expectation of privacy. Anyway, my point stands. They are discussing audio and videotaping in places where there IS an expectation of privacy around an event that took place on a public street. There is no expectation of privacy on the street.
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Re: Consent laws
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What' good for the goose...
Yet, that whole idea gets flushed down the toilet whenever the tables are turned, and an "authority" of any kind is put under the same microscope.
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Corruption? Nah...
The person who was detained by police, locked up in a squad car while they searched his vehicle for narcotics was allowed to go free after the arrest.
This woman films the incident and she's arrested.
They had a conference for an hour about her filming. When all she did was film them doing an illegal search and seizure method.
What the hell is wrong with this picture?
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Re: Corruption? Nah...
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Re: Re: Corruption? Nah...
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Damn the Founding Fathers of our Country! They've rickrolled us all!
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Re: Re: Re: Corruption? Nah...
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Re: Re: Corruption? Nah...
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The police are expected to up hold the laws not bend them to do there job. There exspected to be educated not morons.
If they followed the law then they woundn't have to worry about being filmed now would they!
just get the brownie point so their records look good..
80% of Lawers and judges are just as bad twist and change the laws for there own needs.
thats the human race for ya!
See it eveyday it not just in the law enforcment
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I doubt consent matters
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Oh wait, why did I say that? I seem to be on the wrong article...
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On principle...
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Sheriff Andy took all of Deputy Barney's bullets away.
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Ballad of Barney Fife
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndup992fCJA
Barneys Gun
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLsg0EvZozI
barney's gun goes off again!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1px5vIv9Rs0
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it make sense
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New Laws
1-party/2-party wiretapping laws pertain to voice recording, not video. But that's not my point.
Recently, many states, MA & CT included, have passed NEW laws that make it a crime to video a on-duty police officer or government official.
People have been charged with this already, and now a lawyer who was charged with this (in either MA or CT, I forget which) has vowed to challenge it all the way up.
It is complete BS.
Nobody else in an open, public space has an expectation of privacy, but cops do. Um, ok. That makes sense.
These laws will get struck down. Guaranteed.
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Re: New Laws
I couldn't find anything saying that it was passed.
TD post:
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110301/16454913318/new-bill-connecticut-would-make-it-ille gal-police-to-stop-you-recording-them.shtml
Bill text:
http://www.cga.ct.gov/2011/TOB/s/pdf/2011SB-00788-R00-SB.pdf
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The police don't have a problem with those cameras. Or the ones on The First 48. Or The First 48: Missing. Or TV camera's recording riot control.
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These guys only play officers on a woman's camera.
I admit the above is a little harsh and mostly made up... but I am frustrated by the video so my self censorship filters are going to let it slide.
For the record, I respect good cops, I have many as friends. I also respect the Constitution and what it stands for.
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I have to wonder how good the "good" cops really are, seeing that they willingly tolerate so many bad ones in their midst. If they were really good, they'd clean up their own first.
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As an example of why not... how many people do you know at your place of work that screw stuff up, make bad choices or just suck to work with.... why are they still working there, and why have you not gotten them fired?
In the brotherhood of police they politically bully each other around.
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I was confused and said "wha wha whatt??? I just got the highest score on every single test, wouldnt that mean I got a leg up on these guys>"
his answer was verbatim this "you have too much integrity. only the good old boys make it anywhere in policing."
A twenty year veteran of the police force telling me I have "too much integrity" to be a cop.
Yikes.
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Re: Cop shows
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Interfering by observation
poor little kitty....
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Typical...
The cops don't have a problem with the crews from "Cops" since they agree ahead of time to cut any portions that don't show the police in a favorable light.
Are there any cops left in this country who actually want to help citizens? It seems like the cops now hate everyone, not just the criminals.
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No, you see, everyone but cops ARE criminals. Some just haven't been caught, yet.
/s
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Right but when a cop orders you to stop filming because (he claims) its ILLEGAL, then if it truly was, then they CANT give consent to Cops TV show to film. Its illegal to kill a person even if a cop were to say "go ahead, shoot him, I say its ok."
So one of these is wrong. Either its illegal, and shows like Cops cant record, or its not, and its a massive abuse of police power for them to arrest citizens for doing so.
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AFter watching..
And the cops all over wonder why people don't trust them and probably hate them to boot.
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I don't get to object to either instance. Why should the police?
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They really didn't do it right....at all.....
One kid and his mostly naked girlfriend ride up the street. No biggie, until after the stop light went from red to green, he gunned it, squealed his tires (to the cheers of the crowd, of course...we were getting tired of the cops telling people at a bike festival to 'be quiet'...it's a motorcycle festival..wtfover....)....and then had to screech to a stop (because of traffic).
6 cops jumped out of the crowd onto the street and pulled him over. I snuck over with iPhone in hand, and started recording what I could. One of the officers saw me (about a minute into the video), called for backup, and there were like 10 huge cornfed cops surrounding the guy and his GF...no one could see anything because they basically 'walled off' the area with cop bodies.
They didn't arrest him, they just told him he wasn't allowed to ride his bike anymore on that street during the festival. They let him walk it off to the side of the road, and the GF was calling around trying to find a way to get it towed off the street.
Anyway, the cops need to realize there are better ways to handle a situation....
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Re: They really didn't do it right....at all.....
> the area with cop bodies.
I don't have a problem with people filming cops, but I also don't have a problem with cops doing what you described. You have a right to film but there's no law that says they have to make everything they do accessible to your camera.
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WirelessTapping laws?
Kinda hard to tap a wire that does not exist.
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Arrest me you fucking pigs!
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Smoked pork for dinner
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All parties in this video remained so calm it seems like a perfect test case for the law. Neither the police officer nor the woman seemed to be "losing it" which is often a reason (no matter how the situation started or who was in the right) that things escalate and get out of control -- making an arrest inevitable.
I have no idea what the laws are in New York State, but from the way the officer continued to reiterate that he did not feel safe, there must be something on the books that allows police officers to detain someone who (in their opinion and at their discretion) threatens officer safety. Or perhaps the law allows an officer to direct someone to move (for officer safety reasons) even if they are on their own property which would make it a case of her not obeying a lawful police order. Again, this should make a good test case to see just how much discretion and leeway the officers should have.
Another speculative point: Like referees and lifeguards, cops are trained to assert themselves and "stick to their assertions" even if they realize they are wrong and have dug themselves into a hole. That's part of what's going on here.
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LOL!
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False Arrest ?
If I video taped them and I clearly violated no laws except for some trumpt up excuse. They can take me to jail and I will sue for millions !
The Police order was not a lawful order. She could have been video taping even on public property and be lawful..
YOU STINKING POLICEMAN - YOU IDIOT ARE A COWARD And I HOPE YOU LOSE YOUR JOB!
A Police order only has to be followed
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Oh yah
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Good Luck!
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I don't condone what the cops did, but I also know better than "he couldn't have done it". Kids can do a lot of things and we don't know it. I'm not saying he did do it, just saying before you grab the soapbox, make damn sure he was under contorl the whole time. Kids have a way of sneaking around.
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difference between a character witness (or something of the sort) and an alibi.
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It doesn't matter whether he did it or not. The kid is a minor. He has a right to have his parents/guardians with him during police questioning, and that desire was made clear to the police. Everyone has a right to have an attorney present during questioning, and that desire was made clear as well.
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The parent told the police that they didn't have any right to question their child without their observation and/or an attorney present. That is their right under our laws.
The POLICE broke the law and even if the child admitted to them that he had in fact thrown it, his statement would likely get thrown out of court. And with it the whole case.
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SUE THOSE FUCKS.
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cops on bicycles
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Re: cops on bicycles
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cops
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My town
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Police State...
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simple logic
"Intimidation (also called cowing) is intentional behavior "which would cause a person of ordinary sensibilities" fear of injury or harm."
Standing in one's front lawn and holding a video camera are clearly physical acts. The recorded visual evidence clearly threatens to expose illegal police activity, putting the officer's job in jeopardy and leading to financial harm. Case closed. And should the officer actually be fired, I know a lawyer willing to sue her for committing tortious interference by publicizing the video.
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Stop Resisting!
Maybe they're catching on to the camera thing. "I don't feel safe" is the new "STOP RESISTING." Notice also the cop makes some vague reference to some threat she made before she turned the camera on? That'll become SOP as well.
What the cop should have said is, "Turn the camera off, you're endangering my job security."
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Re: Stop Resisting!
And she helps pay his salary. They seem to forget that fact.
To so many creepy cops people are no longer human, just subjects to be abused and misused. It's a shame, really.
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this article
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Fun times. Fun times...
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Your full of it
But just like the brain washed idiots that want to turn the facts into lies you are the problem, but then Bush wasn't President during 911 either was he... You fool.
Stop getting all your information from Fox you idiot, no wonder Glen Beck is getting thrown off the air, finally they see the hate this fool and others that believe this nonsense is destroying our country.
And people like you blame Obama for what Bush did, funny thing is that idiots like you don't see and understand that it takes years to see the full effect of a President, Now we are living the HE'LL Bush and Chaney payed out for us.
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Re: Your full of it
This is not a D vs. R issue. This is a government vs. the governed issue.
Since Jefferson has been quoted to death, I'll cite Marley: "Get up, stand up. Stand up for your rights. Don't give up the fight."
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Re: Your full of it
And all that name calling ... tsk tsk. Pray tell, why should you be taken seriously?
Just can't see that old forest through them old trees. Pity.
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Re: Your full of it
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Look what happened to Rodney King
I don't think Rodney King was beat down in Indiana, but this this new law he could be. Again...
Only this time no-body will have it on tape and the police will be smiling.
Welcome to the future. Yay!
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Arrest for "Obstructing Governmental Administration"
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well
We put this police officer and an unarmed completely innocent african-american in a box together and sealed the lid.
Now due to quantum mechanics we can't know for sure if the police man beat the other guy senseless for no good reason (but we can hazard a guess) until we open the box and observe the policeman and the citizen's corpse
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I have zero respect for your average cop
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http://www.boingboing.net/2011/06/24/rochester-police-use.html
This is clear police harassment!
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Mazzeo said: "What I think is wrong is, we don't have laws that allow our officers to do their jobs — that an individual has to answer to their demands and be responsible for it."
(from http://www.democratandchronicle.com/article/20110625/NEWS01/106250325/Activist-Emily-Good-stunned-by -fallout-from-video?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|News)
Wow. I am dumbfounded by this comment.
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Re:
Saying "Chief" might imply a different position of authority.
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freedom
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