Harlan Ellison Sues Again; Because No One Could Have Possibly Came Up With The Same SciFi Ideas As He Did

Massive Exodus From Netflix Over Fee Increase

from the surprise dept

Fri, Sep 16th 2011 7:33am — Mike Masnick

When Netflix first hit its customer base with the rather massive fee increase, we noted just how loud and passionate the response was. A week or so later, Netflix boss Reed Hastings insisted that they were actually surprised that the response wasn't worse, stating:

"Believe it or not, the noise level was actually less than we expected, given a 60 percent price increase for some subscribers."

Perhaps he should have waited until all of his customers got over the shell shock. The company is now admitting that a lot more people than they expected have canceled their accounts. Somewhere in the range of 600,000 customers bailed on Netflix over this, making it just the second time that Netflix has had a net loss in subscribers month-to-month.

While Hastings also tried to spin the price increase into a story about how Netflix was accelerating subscribers' shift to digital, that story is falling flat with partners like Starz bailing out.

It's beginning to look like our original statement about the price increase was the most accurate. It was driven by the ridiculously high fees that Hollywood now wants, because it can't stand the thought that a service provider like Netflix actually should get any value from helping to drive the market forward. Instead, the content is 100% of the value, and they deserve any and all profits (and then some). It's a classic killing of the golden goose -- something that Hollywood always tries to do. At this rate, it might just "succeed" in that once again.

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Filed Under: movie subscriptions, pricing
Companies: netflix

109 Comments

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Killer_Tofu (profile), 16 Sep 2011 @ 7:18am

Disingenuous
I loved Netflix. Great service, about never a problem. Still wish they would have added video games like GameFly & Blockbuster, but that is another argument entirely.

I probably would have stuck with them through this price hike had they not sent out such a crazy letter to explain it. You can't split my service, and raise the prices by a lot, and tell me its for my own good. If their letter would have just said "Hey, the people whose content you love feel they deserve it all and are raising the rates on us a lot. We are sorry we have to do this and raise the price to you.", then I would probably still be a customer. However, I do not like being lied to.

The funny thing is I mainly watched lots of anime and independent films / shows through Netflix. Didn't even watch hardly any of the hollywood junk and yet I still get penalized for it.
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xenomancer (profile), 16 Sep 2011 @ 7:20am

Hollywood seems to be beating VHS for the figurative Boston Strangler title.
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The eejit (profile), 16 Sep 2011 @ 7:34am

Re:
Is there a Boston in CA? If not, then I think that "the Angel Strangler" would be more apropos.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Sep 2011 @ 7:42am

The more hollywood tightens it's grip, the more galaxies slip through it's fingers.

Or whatever.
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Pitabred (profile), 16 Sep 2011 @ 7:44am

Pass the buck
It's sad that Hollywood has so much pull in the government... in any other industry, Netflix would have been able to push back and place blame appropriately.
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Tallbonez, 16 Sep 2011 @ 7:44am

Golden Goose
I think all big content succeeded in squeezing Netflix is driving more people to piracy. Blockbuster is trying to make hay on pissed off customers, but how long can they operate at a loss to keep them (there is a reason they went to Netflix). The perpetual fail of the USPS (who keeps kicking around the novel idea of working less to save money) should be another concern for Netflix, due to the number of streaming luddites.

RE: Losing Starz, I think the biggest hit is to fans of Sparticus, as their movie selection never impressed me. Guess where fans of that show will go...
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Rajio, 16 Sep 2011 @ 7:44am

Lulz
its still better than the deal Canada gets.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Sep 2011 @ 7:45am

"Even with fewer subscribers, Netflix expects to bring in $10 million to $25 million more from its customers than during the July-September period than it did April-June"
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Sep 2011 @ 7:49am

No worries my torrent/file locker files are still free. I am not going to hit up torrents as I will not be hitting up file lockers as they seem a bit legal proof. No swarm to give away my IP and don't have to worry about setting up a IP tunnel. I did pay to have netflix and stopped downloading, but now this is crap.
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AJ, 16 Sep 2011 @ 7:50am

Sigh...
Now, do you think the customers that Netflix looses are just going to stop watching movies?

This is crazy, they (Hollywood) force a rate hike on Netflix, Netflix raises it's prices, customers abandon ship, you can bet some will probably turn to illegal downloading as they are used to getting their media online now.
People only have so much money to spend on entertainment, you go above what they can afford, they will find another way. On top of that, now that they constantly feel they are getting screwed by the industry, they don't feel the least bit guilty about screwing them back. Right or wrong, it's true.

I think they (Hollywood) are the only ones that can't see that they are a major contributing factor in illegal downloading.
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PaulT (profile), 16 Sep 2011 @ 7:51am

Re: Disingenuous
Sounds like my experience with eMusic. They were excellent for a few years despite a few ongoing problems. But, they suddenly raised the price (and reduced the number of tracks per subscription) several times due to deals the the majors and tried to make it out to be something I wanted, even though the reason I was with them anyway was for the independent labels. By the time it because clear that I could import a new CD cheaper than buying any digital album from them, I bailed.

Then again, I'd happily pay double what you're being asked to for Netflix simply because there's no equivalent service here...
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cjstg (profile), 16 Sep 2011 @ 7:53am

Re: Disingenuous
what i don't understand is that they split the subscription. this allowed us to drop the dvd mailers and that reduced our actual cost by half. i hadn't actively used the dvd mailers in over a year. now i have the same service at half the price and i don't need to feel guilty about not sending that unwatched dvd back.
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fogbugzd (profile), 16 Sep 2011 @ 8:01am

The price increase shows that there isn't unlimited elasticity in what people will pay to watch movies and TV. That is something that Hollywood refuses to believe.
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AR (profile), 16 Sep 2011 @ 8:15am

Re: Sigh...
I totally agree. Further, what I see happening next is a higher demand for larger hard drives to store things on.
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CJWhite (profile), 16 Sep 2011 @ 8:16am

Re: Re: Disingenuous
I took the streaming only option, too. I wasn't using DVDs very much. Well, one thing I've noticed is that shows that I search for are suddenly only offered on DVD, even shows that used to be streaming. Am I crazy? Anyone else have the same experience?
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Sep 2011 @ 8:18am

Didn't affect me at all I never watch physical DVDs. My monthly fee went down due to the stream only plan. I stream it or download it.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Sep 2011 @ 8:19am

I think this is perhaps a better explanation:

"The company announced that it expects to have 21.8 million customers subscribing to its movie streaming service, less than the 22 million it had expected. Meanwhile, it reduced the number of DVD rental subscribers from 15 million to 14.2 million.

However, the number of people subscribing to both movie streaming services and DVD rentals remain unchanged at 12 million, which is good news for the company.

from http://www.itproportal.com/2011/09/15/netflix-updates-subscriber-numbers-movie-streaming-dvd-rental- services/

When you look at it net, it would appear that they made a good long term choice. Yes, short term there will be some fuss, but the strong "stick" on the numbers of people using both services is pretty impressive. In the end, it appears that the move wasn't anywhere near as negative as some of the nay-sayers would have suggested. More importantly, the long term bottom line looks fine, as the significant price increase will stick in the long term. The numbers aren't bad enough to suggest any change of course is required.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Sep 2011 @ 8:22am

You know, I could have lived with the price increase, but with the cancellation of the Starz contract and seeing articles weekly that Latin American countries were getting more steaming ability then we here in the States were made up my mind. Why pay more for less? More for the the same, eh, not the best, but OK. More fore more, sure, absolutely. But as someone else said, don't take content away, raise the price, and then try to tell me it's for my own good.
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Malia, 16 Sep 2011 @ 8:23am

Neflix hates their Mailer customers
I decided to keep my DVD's by mail option only. Streaming didn't have many movies that I wanted to see or had not seen already on TV, Cable, HBO etc. They are already screwing over their DVD by mail customers by cutting down the number of DVDs they have in stock. I have one newer movie (2011) on my list that has had a long wait for over a week now. I switched to Blockbuster and it was available right away.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Sep 2011 @ 8:24am

Hollywood logic
"Pyrrhic victory" still has the word "victory" in it. Time to crack open the champagne!
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Sep 2011 @ 8:30am

Re:
Shhh. Mike doesn't care about that. He just needs to spin this some way so that it makes him look right. Drink your Kool-Aid and shut up.
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Chris ODonnell (profile), 16 Sep 2011 @ 8:32am

I was paying $15.99 for the 2 DVD plan. Now I'm paying $19.99. I'm going to drop the service over less than the cost of a large soda at the theater? I don't think so. We cycle through 5 or 6 DVDs a month plus probably 20 hours of streaming, for 1/2 the cost of taking the family to a single movie. It's still a great deal.
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anwoodgate, 16 Sep 2011 @ 8:37am

Hollywood idiots
Once again Hollywood shoots itself in the foot - I will have to laugh when I see those anti-piracy ads now. One thing that really irks me is that so many of the movies I want to watch are not yet On Demand with Netflix - Cable companies are in cahoots to kill this great service as they consider it competition. Where does this leave Hulu?
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Sep 2011 @ 8:37am

Re:
Victory then they beat the pirates, congratulations will they stop their witch hunt? of course not, but pirates will not stop pirating either so I guess everything is just cool.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Sep 2011 @ 8:39am

The price hike made me cancel my disc based subscription. I still get the digital subscription because I used that 99% of the time anyway. I would usually get a single movie at a time and sit on it for 3 months before watching it anyway.
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Anon, 16 Sep 2011 @ 8:40am

Profit!
If you asked any businessman if they could double their price, and only lose 4% of their customers, they'd jump at it. They will certainly lose more, but as most of Netflix's licensing deals for streaming content is based on number of subscriptions, it may not be bad thing for them to shed some customers. This move may end up delaying future prices increases, which are sure to come as content owners up their demands with every new agreement.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Sep 2011 @ 8:40am

Re:
Longterm there will be another rise and then another one and then another one and each and everyone of those will mean fewer and fewer people.
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Berenerd (profile), 16 Sep 2011 @ 8:44am

Re: Re: Re: Disingenuous
I saw this too.
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martyburns (profile), 16 Sep 2011 @ 8:44am

Re:
So it presumably follows that Hollywood is making more money now too. Will that stop them chasing anyone who left Netflix for the 'free' option? I doubt it. Even though most of those who left will have done so because they cant afford it, Hollywood will still spends millions lobbying and suing to try and get money out of people who haven't got any.

Fucking muppets.
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ASTROBOI, 16 Sep 2011 @ 8:44am

Never liked them.....
I was an early adopter. Thought it was great back when they started. Then they had the "throttling" business. I had 50 titles in my list and each was marked "long Wait"! Eventually I took the advice of forum posters, closed my account and opened a new one. Suddenly all my titles were available but only for a few weeks. Finally Netflix admitted that they had lied, that they did throttle anybody who took them seriously about getting unlimited dvds and anybody who didn't like their policy could sod off. I want a physical dvd. I want to be able to watch it when and where I please and, yes, copy it if I so choose. If streaming is your thing, Netflix is for you. But I find them duplicitous. When getting what you pay for is a battle of wits, it's time to move on.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Sep 2011 @ 8:45am

meh..back to torrents
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Sep 2011 @ 8:47am

Re:
So what are you saying is that losing customers is good?

The goal was 22 million customers and they fell short by 200 thousand and lost 800 thousand more which totals 1 million customers, that is a lot of people don't you think?

Besides customers using both services are a transitional phase how great is that? How many of those they will retain?
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Greevar (profile), 16 Sep 2011 @ 8:47am

And yet...
The file sharers are unaffected by this. They get a superior service for a better price than what Hollywood will provide. When will they learn that to get people to pay, you need to give them what they want for a reasonable price? It's funny how Hollywood expects the consumers to meet their demands rather than vice versa.
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Jeremy7600 (profile), 16 Sep 2011 @ 8:49am

I kept my streaming+1dvd subscription, I got capote 3 weeks ago and I still haven't watched it yet.
My gf dropped her dvd sub but kept the streaming, we will just get dvds on my account anyway.

The "loss" of starz won't affect me much. I don't dig on disney too much and I am turned off from sony over the whole geohotz affair
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Sep 2011 @ 8:52am

My progression for Hollywood films in a nutshell:
Late 90's: Go to movies 1-2 times a week.

Late '99/early '00 Get Netflix. After three deliveries I get a shattered disc. Netflix not sympathetic, charges me. I quit.

Mid- 00-02: Start to pirate films/games. I'm going to fewer and fewer movies now as prices rise and quality of films doesn't seem on par. I try Netflix again, and again I get a shattered disc, though this time they replace the movies free. I quit out of frustration.

'03-present: Pirate fewer movies, go to theater less and less. Then I stopped pirating films as youtube is introduced and my attention span decreases for sitting through movies.

I no longer pirate much, the idea of sitting through movies/shows sounds so unappealing to me, and the thought of stepping into a theater is intolerable.

My kids? They hate going to the theater. They mostly like interactive games, all of which we get legally and conveniently through Steam. Steam = the service Hollywood should have delivered in 2001, AT THE LATEST. I probably spend $100-$200 a year on Steam, and that is for about 10-15 games a year.

Note that I make 6 figures and cost really has little to do with anything, it has to do with convenience and value.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Sep 2011 @ 8:53am

Re: Re:
Yeah! So what if their stock dropped 19% and they lost 6 billion? And who cares about some stock analyst guy that thinks they might drop another 65%, which would presumably cost them about 9 billion?
Losing 800,000 subscribers isn't that bad, guys. Stop exaggerating things.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Sep 2011 @ 8:54am

Re: Never liked them.....
They used to do this with their disc queue as well. Newer customers received preferential treatment than subscribers. Another reason I quit was the lagtime for discs (which I heard they later addressed.)
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Vincent Clement (profile), 16 Sep 2011 @ 8:56am

Re:
Exactly.

Here in Canada, I'm paying $21.99 a month for a cable TV movie package that includes a bunch of movie channels and HBO Canada (plus their On Demand equivalents). The range of movies has fallen sharply due to competition from Super Channel and NetFlix. HBO is the only reason we keep the package.

The package cost $14.99 when I got it a few years ago. Annual price increases make me question it's value. If my wife agrees, I'll be dropping the package this fall.

Less money for Hollywood. Oh well.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Sep 2011 @ 8:56am

I personally feel like this was a mixed move. On one side you have the high rates that Hollywood feels they are due to rent out the films. On the other side, I think Netflix wants to overhaul their online service. Maybe they were concerned about bandwidth issues... Higher prices -> Lower demand -> less bandwidth.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to downplay Hollywood's role in this mess. I'm just saying there are probably more factors behind it.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Sep 2011 @ 8:56am

I personally feel like this was a mixed move. On one side you have the high rates that Hollywood feels they are due to rent out the films. On the other side, I think Netflix wants to overhaul their online service. Maybe they were concerned about bandwidth issues... Higher prices -> Lower demand -> less bandwidth.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to downplay Hollywood's role in this mess. I'm just saying there are probably more factors behind it.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Sep 2011 @ 8:58am

Re: Disingenuous
If their letter would have just said ...

Except that the letter can't say that. Not without angering the Hollywood executives who have monopoly control over the content. I'm sure that if Netflix could source content from somewhere else, they would. As a matter of fact, I predict that Netflix will be forced into the movie making business, just so that they can have enough content.

The problem with copyright is that the people who own the movies make all the rules and you can't do anything to offend them, make them look bad, frustrate them, etc. Because in the end they own the content and while Netflix provides and awesome service and deserves all their success, they won't last long if the a-holes at the studios get their panties in a bunch and collectively leave Netflix out in the cold.
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Clay (profile), 16 Sep 2011 @ 9:02am

Re: Re:
So what are you saying is that losing customers is good?

So what you're saying is that making anywhere up to 100% more money from 95% of their customers while losing only 5% of them is bad?
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Bengie, 16 Sep 2011 @ 9:04am

Re: Re: Disingenuous
Ditto
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reboog711 (profile), 16 Sep 2011 @ 9:07am

How do you quantify Mass Exodus?
Based on my understanding of the Subscription Numbers; Netflix will have one million less subscribers than they anticipated.

Instead of 49 million; they have 48 million.

Doesn't that constitute a 2% drop, give or take? Why does 2% equate to a massive customer exodus?
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Sep 2011 @ 9:12am

Re: Re: Re:
Thanks Clay.

I actually look at some of this as an outcrop of "sell the scarce". Legal online streaming is still pretty scarce, and the price they were charging was pretty low. After having gotten the public addicted to the product (and having embedded their service in tons of devices), Netflix has made the right move. They split the services, lowered the individual service prices slightly, and jacked the total bill if you want both significantly.

The math is pretty simple: a 60% price increase, versus a 5% short term loss of customers. My guess is that 12 months from now, the customer base will have recovered, and Netflix will be reporting massively better topline revenue numbers in their service, and all this hand wringing by the Mike Masnicks of the world will be for nothing.
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Josef Anvil (profile), 16 Sep 2011 @ 9:13am

Bump in the road...
Netflix is a cool service which is sure to continue to profit even though it hit a bump in the road. Hollywood and the Cable companies should be taking notice of how the consumers react. We consumers want our content and we want it to be cheap and convenient because that is what we have become used to now.

It's all about cutting the cord. Netflix isn't doing deals with Starz because people enjoy paying cable companies for tons of channels they don't watch. People enjoy paying less for more and will generally do that even if a free (but dodgy) alternative is available.

Maybe the TV and movie studios are unaware of all the streaming sites that are on the net. Consumers have absolutely NO FEAR of watching content on those sites since we are not infringing in any way. We are just watching the content we want to watch and not downloading or sharing it illegally (And without tons of adverts).

It all just makes you wonder how much control the lawyers have. At the end of the day the lawyers have convinced the content industry that its better to pay lawyers to fight a battle that can't be won rather than to invest that cash in innovation.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Sep 2011 @ 9:16am

Re: Re: Re:
So what you are saying is that a one off uptick in revenues will offset the slowdown of customers and growth forever right?
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tawsenior (profile), 16 Sep 2011 @ 9:17am

My problem with Netflix is...
That they also slammed down on accessing the online stream from multiple locations. I pay for unlimited streaming but now I cannot watch a movie in the living room while my kids watch a movie in the basement.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Sep 2011 @ 9:18am

Re: How do you quantify Mass Exodus?
It is a massive exodus because Mike wants it to be one. He so wants to see anything to do with Hollywood fail, that he pretty much writes the stories and then tries to make the facts fit in.

As someone else said, if you can almost double your price and only lose a small amount of your customer base, pretty much any business would jump at the chance. It is actually a pretty clear indication that they were massively under-pricing the market before. They may still be underpriced now.

It's the same reason why the actions of a single greedy TSA agent in New Jersey is enough to call for the entire system to be scrapped. It isn't because the wrong is that large, but because the storyline (get rid of the TSA) was already written.

As a side note, Mike, I notice your traffic is up this month again as you start flogging the TSA horse again. Amazing isn't it?
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Sep 2011 @ 9:19am

still better than cable. Upgraded our account to 3 DVDs a month from 1. The price increase is the fault of the content owners greed! I may bail when the starz contract is up though as the amount of content decreases.
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MM_Dandy (profile), 16 Sep 2011 @ 9:19am

$Billions!!1!
On a related note, how did Starz walking away from the table not cost Starz $Billions!!1! ?

Not only are they not getting Netflix's money, the rate hike will drive more people to piracy. Using the MPAA's figures, Starz should be bankrupt in 3...2...
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Sep 2011 @ 9:19am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
The math is simple: 60% increase = 100% increase in revenues for a year and no growth on the second.

The curve bell already happened if you are loosing customers you are not going to get that much new ones in the future, how they will have revenue growth without new customers?
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Sep 2011 @ 9:20am

Thanks for the reminder. Today was the last day of my subscription, needed to cancel.

I hope they become a viable option again. A prime example of why I quit:
"Batman" lists a ton of DVDs, only 3 or 4 were actually available by streaming.

I was one who only wanted the DVD option because of the gaps in the streaming selection. I will miss it, and hope they get their business in order and can win me back. But for now, I will be using other (legal) options.

For the most part the documentaries that I was really enjoying from netflix are already online free from other sources.
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Glen, 16 Sep 2011 @ 9:23am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Not with a lousy streaming selection. I dropped the streaming because I couldn't justify the increase of price and decrease of selection.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Sep 2011 @ 9:27am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Here is where people will go instead of Netflix.

http://torrentbutler.eu/
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CommonSense (profile), 16 Sep 2011 @ 9:33am

Re: Golden Goose
The Pirate Bay???

If Starz doesn't want me to watch Spartacus for a reasonable price, I may just have to not pay for it. I won't pay Comcast for a basic package, and then pay them even more for Starz, especially if Spartacus is the only thing from Starz I want to watch. I have absolutely NO problem with, and I'm even a little excited to, pay Netflix the $8/month for access to Starz content. If Netflix even had to compartmentalize the Starz offering, and charge an extra $2/month or something, I'd still have no problem paying the then $10/month. What I do have a problem with, is paying Comcast so much more than that, for them to provide a far worse viewing experience, for them to include a bunch of crap that I would rather pay them NOT to provide, for them to then charge me an extra, still larger, fee to include the same Starz programming that Netflix was trying to include.

To Starz, HBO and Showtime:
Get out of bed with Cable providers, you can reach a lot more people that way, and with more customers, you can make more money. You're not helping yourselves out any.
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Bengie, 16 Sep 2011 @ 9:33am

Re: My progression for Hollywood films in a nutshell:
Not 6 figs over here, but I completely agree.

convenience and value
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davidf, 16 Sep 2011 @ 9:37am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Yes, and then Hollywood will see how well Netflix is doing and demand a bigger slice of the pie. If you can't innovate, legislate....
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Whocaresaboutname, 16 Sep 2011 @ 9:47am

Re: Re: Re: Disingenuous
I have noticed the same thing, many movies are now DVD only.
My Netflix account has been on hold for a while now, i was contemplating if i should just cancel the subscription but now i think i have finally decided.
Voting with my wallet.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Sep 2011 @ 9:49am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Yah right, in the middle of a recession it totally makes sense to jack up the prices, lose customers because somehow people that have to make hard choices today will sign up later.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Sep 2011 @ 9:51am

It's kind of hard to support netflix when you know some (if not most) of your money is going to the MPAA. I really want to support netflix in their efforts to disturb the market and show dinosaurs how it's done. I would feel a lot less guilt if they finally started their own movie studio an screw hollywood.
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PRMan, 16 Sep 2011 @ 9:55am

Re: Re: Re: Disingenuous
Search for movies such as Aladdin or Beauty and the Beast. Netflix has removed even the DVDs for these movies thanks to their deal with Disney/Starz. Are they coming back when that deal ends?
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PRMan, 16 Sep 2011 @ 9:57am

Re: Re: Disingenuous
This is why Netflix needed to get their own original series a long time ago. Partner with content producers and stream the shows. Fund a new Firefly series. With a couple high-profile successful shows, they could be in a very different situation today.
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techflaws.org (profile), 16 Sep 2011 @ 9:58am

Re: Re: How do you quantify Mass Exodus?
Not amamzing as your senseless BS. Oh well.
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JEDIDIAH, 16 Sep 2011 @ 10:06am

The death of personal property
That just blows. Kiss the First Sale Doctrine goodbye. If Netflix is happily giving up it's personal property rights then this could spell doom for the entire operation. The fact that you can "buy by the pound" with physical media is one of the few remaining things left that can prevent Netflix from being totally destroyed by big content.

Take that away and Netflix is completely at the mercy of Disney and friends.
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JustMe, 16 Sep 2011 @ 10:11am

Re:
Some of us have yet to be charged the new price. I will be loosing the streaming because they don't offer enough to watch.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Sep 2011 @ 10:12am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
No, what I am saying is that this one off downtick in customers and growth will be offset by the higher price, and the net results will be better in the long run.
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JEDIDIAH, 16 Sep 2011 @ 10:12am

Netflix isn't good enough
It's not about the price of a soda.

It's about the product continually increasing in price until you finally notice it and the impact of all of those other price hikes sink in. You quickly realize that it's a non-trivial amount and there's something else you might be spending it on that's a better value.

Netflix simply isn't good enough to be a significant portion of the price of a cable subscription.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Sep 2011 @ 10:14am

Re: Re: Re: Disingenuous
I don't even love Firefly but I think it would be a good place to start. Netflix has revenue exceeding a billion dollars, I'm not sure what they're waiting for.
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Malibu Cusser (profile), 16 Sep 2011 @ 10:15am

Netflix has/had been massively successful in it's campaign to get people to embrace streaming with all of the excellent moves it made at first. I have to think that many more people now get their entertainment through this avenue that would at this point had Netflix never bet it all on streaming.

Now, the studios/MPAA are going to reverse all of that, and all these people that have come to rely on watching movies/shows/whatever over the net are going to have trouble finding that movie/show/whatever they want to watch. They'll search for it, and the wonderful 'DVD only' caption will pop up.

Does anyone honestly think these people are then just going to pony up more dough and add DVD's by mail back to their subscription? Or rush out to the store and buy what they want to watch?

My money is on them clicking over to their favorite browser and searching for an alternative to netflix, and finding torrents or whatever, since there aren't any *legal* alternatives.

I think the MPAA did much worse than kill the golden goose this time. I think they just introduced an entire new group of disgruntled consumers to 'piracy'.
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Scott, 16 Sep 2011 @ 10:19am

Happy
I'm happy for the exodus. More bandwidth for me when I want to watch Top Gear (UK).
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Michael, 16 Sep 2011 @ 10:27am

re:Disingenuous
The top post, by Killer_Tofu, nails the problem for me. I joined emusic for the off-beat stuff they offered, and because I am boycotting RIAA products as much as possible, this gave me a great window into good alternative showcase. Then they announced what a great favor they were doing for me by bringing in all the labels I boycott, and charging me more for the present. So I quit. On Nexflix I found some of the most wonderful strange stuff, then . . . .
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ASTROBOI, 16 Sep 2011 @ 10:44am

Movies are cheaper than ever.
Back in the '60's and 70's you could go to a movie theater or watch a pretty pathetic showing of a movie on tv. If you wanted to collect movies, film prints were all that was available. Expensive, difficult, possibly illegal, but you could do it and anybody that did was pretty elite. Real home theaters were rare. Back then a 35mm color print would set you back $65.00 or more. 16mm might run $150.00. Big movies were more. Those who were not connected paid more. Here we are with $1.00 rentals, used dvds priced at a buck and up, new dvds priced at 7.99 and up. If you figure inflation at a factor of 10 over the last 50 years (and a lot of people do), that equates to a movie rental and maybe a purchase for a dime in 1965 money. The price of a comic book back then! How many people even take movies seriously any more? They are everywhere. You can watch 'em on your telephone for gods sake! If you live in the city you have maybe a dozen different ways to access them, a few of them free (although maybe illegal) and most of them very low in cost. And consider the backlog! Today we still rent and buy and stream 50 year old movies all the time. In 1960 you couldn't do that. There were no 50 year old movies unless you count "The Great Train Robbery"! Maybe the real problem is that media is so saturated that most people just don't see a lot of value there. The supply is far greater than the demand. So movies have either got to be very cheap or impossibly good. Otherwise people look elsewhere for their kicks.
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Dave (profile), 16 Sep 2011 @ 10:50am

I'd pay more..
...but only for more service. I was more than happy to dropped the discs and go streaming only when the price increase came. It was the thing that fianlly convinced my wife.

What I am waiting for is the landrush to streaming that will occur as dvd sales continue to fall off a cliff. We are like the early stage of itunes when everyone was complaining about copy protection and there were tons of hold outs. Eventually everyone will jump in. I just wish the content holders weren't so stupid to think that it will somehow not turn out like the music business.

I am not sure what model is perfect because subscriptions seem to be more palatable that individual purchases for Video Content.

I would happily pay $1-$9 per channel(depending on which channel :)) for through netflix. I already have the service in my tivo and wii and blu-ray player. They could do a la carte cable and completely cut out the likes of comcast.
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Sychodelix (profile), 16 Sep 2011 @ 10:50am

Not a problem for streamers
This is really only a problem for people that can't let go of DVDs. I don't even hardly watch DVD's at all anymore. When you are like me, and cut off $80 worth of cable, when I hardly watch it, and can watch Netflix on a relatively cheap wi-fi Blu-Ray player hooked up to a 1080p 42" HDTV, then paying 8-9 dollars a month for a huge selection is friggin awesome. I fail to see the point of the DVD part of Netflix that everyone is bitching about. Scratched up DVD's that can easily get lost in the mail, that may or may not play on your player due to arcane DRM, DO NOT impress me.

I know that I can't get everything Netflix has to offer with only streaming, but there's still a huge amount of content, and new things showing up all the time. Fuck Starz. I wasn't that impressed with their feeble selection anyways. There's a massive load of streaming anime on Netflix now, and I'm happy as hell about it.
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Killer_Tofu (profile), 16 Sep 2011 @ 11:05am

Re: Re: Disingenuous
I would have considered this except their streaming options overall are not enough to draw me in. Watching anime I cannot select to set the default language settings to the original Japanese w/ English subtitles. If I could do that and they had a much bigger catalogue, I would feel more persuaded. I actually prefer subtitles even on English shows and movies, but I am never given that option either.
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Killer_Tofu (profile), 16 Sep 2011 @ 11:08am

Re: Re: Re: Disingenuous
If they kept Firefly going I would probably subscribe just to support that alone.
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NotMyRealName (profile), 16 Sep 2011 @ 11:16am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Disingenuous
I would pay the first three months for every single one of my friends if they would bring back Firefly. I still make a weekend out of the box set 2-3 times a year.
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sevenof9fl (profile), 16 Sep 2011 @ 11:22am

All In All
I think this is more of a loss for Starz play than for Netflix over the long haul, and this is why: I had reserved several of the "New Releases" from Starz/Netflix in my Instant Queue only to notice that in less than a month, they were gone, unseen, since I don't sit around and watch movies 24/7. What was left in Starz Play was not that great, either. I don't know when Hollywood is going to figure out that they aren't going to stomp out piracy with anything less than fair distribution of product, or at least a different model of distribution, and Starz Play is no longer part of the solution, it's now part of the problem.

This issue dovetails quite nicely with several articles I've read recently about how similar RL is to The Producers, and how, mysteriously, no one ever makes any money in Hollywood, but somehow all these big budget movies get made, salaries get paid, blablahblahblahalbha.....
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Jordan (profile), 16 Sep 2011 @ 11:37am

Re: Neflix hates their Mailer customers
And if the expected cuts to USPS come through it will be harder to get the DVDs as well. That's when I am dropping my account.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Sep 2011 @ 11:56am

Re: Re: Re: How do you quantify Mass Exodus?
Oh? Do tell. What exactly is BS here? That Mike calls a drop in user counts an exodus? That Mike uses a "tech" blog to bash on the TSA because it drives readership (according to Quantcast)? That Mike takes single narrow cases and attempt to broadbush those he hates with them?

So, which BS would you like to address first?
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Sep 2011 @ 12:00pm

Re: Re: How do you quantify Mass Exodus?
From one AC to another, you can just fuck right off with your incessant trolling. You give anonymity a bad name, and I challenge you to a sword duel to the pain.
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ksh, 16 Sep 2011 @ 12:33pm

Still a good deal...but what will they do with my extra money??
I was going to cancel initially...out of sheer indignation. But when I thought about it, it's still a better deal than anything around at $16/mo for unlimited streaming via pc or tv (have a roku) or tablet now, plus several dvds a month (1 at a time plan). I get the occasional new release from amazon or redbox, and still pay maybe $20/mo and have all of my movie/tv needs met WITHOUT cable. The only thing that irks me is the lack of better content for streaming. Like someone else said, they've raised prices, and still managed to take AWAY content. Not cool, and I'm wondering where my extra money is going if it's not going to benefit me? Eh, I'm still satisfied though (for now); I'm not that hard up that $8 a month extra kills me. We'll see what happens long-term.
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FarSide (profile), 16 Sep 2011 @ 12:34pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Disingenuous
I think the problem with the Disney movies is the standard 'Disney Vault' bullshit - they pull movies out for 10 years or more at a time, and don't allow sales OR rentals of any of them. Sometimes they let them go onto tv...
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Sep 2011 @ 12:55pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: How do you quantify Mass Exodus?
We all know you are dishonest, not need to confirm it.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Sep 2011 @ 12:59pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
LoL

You know that is why the music industry don't make more money right?
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Sep 2011 @ 1:09pm

Re: Re: Sigh...
"...what I see happening next is a higher demand for larger hard drives..."
And a mandated entertainment industry tax on them like Canada's blank CD tax.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Sep 2011 @ 2:05pm

Re: Still a good deal...but what will they do with my extra money??
You see, you should think exactly like those people, $8 dollars a month is $96 dollars a year or $960 dollars in 10 years which adds up to $4800 dollars in 50 years, $4800 dollars that could make a difference when you most need it.

If you don't start saving your change that you are going to has less in the future.

To pay for things.
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Patricia013, 16 Sep 2011 @ 2:40pm

Netflix
I was one of their loyal subscribers. I can tell them its not over yet. They are going to be so sorry they did this. I know the economy is bad and companies want to keep up their level of revenue...but this is at the expense of loyal customers who already had a raise less than a year ago. I'm at the lowest plan level now (stream only) and I'm seriously eyeing Blockbuster! If I were Netflix I would immediately rescind the raise or lower it to a point where its at least feasible - 60 percent is downright greed and people on a budget already have thrown their hands up in disgust!
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Patricia013, 16 Sep 2011 @ 2:40pm

Netflix
I was one of their loyal subscribers. I can tell them its not over yet. They are going to be so sorry they did this. I know the economy is bad and companies want to keep up their level of revenue...but this is at the expense of loyal customers who already had a raise less than a year ago. I'm at the lowest plan level now (stream only) and I'm seriously eyeing Blockbuster! If I were Netflix I would immediately rescind the raise or lower it to a point where its at least feasible - 60 percent is downright greed and people on a budget already have thrown their hands up in disgust!
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BeeAitch (profile), 16 Sep 2011 @ 2:46pm

Re: Re: Re: Sigh...
You mean the "it's OK to go ahead and pirate" tax?
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Sep 2011 @ 2:58pm

Re:
Yep, I decided to drop Netflix and switch over to a VPN/torrents again. Nice job Mafiaa
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Lori, 16 Sep 2011 @ 3:00pm

Stop yelling at Netflix!
I am not happy with the downturn of Netflix content and the upturn of the cost, but I am still backing Netflix on principle alone. I am not normally a cause-backer, but for some reason, this one really irritates me. Hollywood only feels validated in their insanity when we turn our backs on Netflix. Who else in this god-forsaken industry was foreward thinking? Certainly not Hollywood...

Come join my Facebook page (or just leave your thoughts). Click here - Loyal to Netflix
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Sep 2011 @ 3:09pm

Re: And yet...
arrrggg me matey, we always have the better deal!
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Sep 2011 @ 3:22pm

That MASSIVE exodus accounts for roughly 2% of all subscribers. But I guess you're right 2% IS MASSIVE!!?!?!? Man the stock market made MASSIVE jumps today...it went up by.....2%.
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Sep 2011 @ 4:12pm

Re:
If 2% of the whole population moved out of Washington DC right now do to unfavorable prices in the city, would you still say its a tiny amount?
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Anonymous Coward, 16 Sep 2011 @ 4:13pm

Re:
and yes, a jump of 2 percent in the stock market is pretty big. Clearly you don't have stocks.
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sevenof9fl (profile), 16 Sep 2011 @ 5:10pm

Re:
I agree wit you 100%. Hollywood just went from trying to help build a model to putting lots of folks on the "torrent help pages."
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Greevar (profile), 16 Sep 2011 @ 9:04pm

Re: Re: And yet...
And that's the problem. Why does it take an act of infringement to meet the demand of the public?
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The eejit (profile), 17 Sep 2011 @ 3:29am

Re: Re: Re: Re: How do you quantify Mass Exodus?
If 900,000 subscribers from WoW is an exodus, then a similar number for a similarly proportioned service is not also an exodus? I mean, why bother with paying $20/mo for less, when going free can offer more?

I mean, seriously, if there was a legal torrent of shows literally given away, I would support that. It's not about convenience, it's about control. And that obsession is killing a large swath of the entertainment industry.
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Ilfar, 17 Sep 2011 @ 3:36am

Re: My progression for Hollywood films in a nutshell:
I thank the gods there will never be a music and movie equivalent to Steam, my accountant glares at me enough as it is.

(iTunes doesn't count, so far as I'm aware it doesn't do weekend specials or anything fancy like that, and the last time I installed it, the damned software picked up my music directory, and the share of my music directory, and the link to the music directory on my desktop, and stuck three copies of every single damned song on my computer into the library...)
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Anonymous Coward, 17 Sep 2011 @ 7:36am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How do you quantify Mass Exodus?
Well, at 900,000 on a user base of around 10-12 million, that is a bigger number (8-9%). Compare that to Netflix losing 2%, and suddenly you understand why one is an exodus and the other is more of an adjustment is use.

If Netflix continues to drop users and ends up losing 10% of their base, then we can talk exodus. But at this point, they are just dealing with normal shifts after a sizable price adjustment. Check back in 6 months to see the true answers.
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Stacey, 17 Sep 2011 @ 11:42am

Re:
I agree. We stopped downloading also, until Netflix's selection of movies started sucking ass. Now we're back to downloading again!
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BeeAitch (profile), 17 Sep 2011 @ 12:03pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
I actually look at some of this as an outcrop of "sell the artificially scarce".

FTFY

And with that, trying to make their product artificially scarce will result in their demise aver the long term.

Good riddance!
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Mark, 17 Sep 2011 @ 9:36pm

Re: Lulz
It's better than anything Canada gets, cuz fuck Canada.
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Cynyr (profile), 18 Sep 2011 @ 8:18am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Disingenuous
but i thought that if i bought 300 copies, i would be welcome to do what i want with them. Light them on fire, watch them, rent them out for a fee. Isn't that basically what red box is doing? buying movies retail and renting them out?
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Cynyr (profile), 18 Sep 2011 @ 8:30am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
oooo, shame amazon or Hollywood in general hasn't done something simmilar... sat with a $1-$3 each and enforce ratios.
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Anonymous Coward, 18 Sep 2011 @ 8:30pm

Re:
They probably believe they have a new golden goose, which is to sue consumers. After all, looking at the damage amounts they are asking for, it is far more than what they can draw from each consumer via subscription rates.
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Terry (profile), 19 Sep 2011 @ 11:07am

Management *and* Hollywood are killing Netflix
I'm not a subscriber since I spend too much on entertainment already (i.e., cable TV), so take my comments with a grain of salt.

If I could have convinced my wife to drop cable TV, I would have sign up for the DVD plus streaming service. But there's just not enough available on streaming to make the new price worthwhile. We used to be hopeful and check the streaming listings on my Apple TV when my son visited since he has a membership. I don't recall ever finding anything on Netflix streaming that we weren't willing to wait for the DVD.

Anyway, it's not just Hollywood that wants to kill Netflix. Between the price increase and this latest Qwikster boneheaded move (http://news.yahoo.com/netflix-separates-dvd-streaming-businesses-122052917.html), management is doing their best to kill it as well.
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