DOJ Gives Its Opinion On SOPA By Unilaterally Shutting Down 'Foreign Rogue Site' Megaupload... Without SOPA/PIPA
from the screw-you-all----we're-the-doj dept
If you've been paying attention to the MPAA/US Chamber of Commerce/RIAA claims about why they need PIPA/SOPA, a key argument is that they need it to go after these "foreign rogue sites" that cannot be reached under existing US law. Among the most prominent sites often talked about is Megaupload -- which accounts for a huge percentage of the "rogue site traffic" that the US Chamber of Commerce and other bill supporters love to cite. However, it certainly appears that the US Justice Department and ICE don't think they need any new law to go after people in foreign countries over claims of criminal copyright infringement. As lots of folks are currently digesting, the Justice Department, along with ICE, have shut down the site and arrested many of the principles (with the help of New Zealand law enforcement) and charged them with massive amounts of criminal copyright infringement.Of course, just last week, we had noted that Megaupload was immune from SOPA/PIPA because it doesn't apply to dot coms -- but this is still interesting and crazy for a whole variety of reasons:
- ICE and DOJ have a pretty freaking dreadful record so far in bringing these kinds of cases for online copyright infringement. It's kind of amazing that they did this so soon after they totally screwed up and had to give back Dajaz1 (without an apology, by the way). Megaupload may be a different type of site... but, still...
- Similar cyberlockers, like RapidShare, have already been declared legal in both Europe and the US. I don't know the details of Megaupload's situation -- and certainly its founder has a... um... colorful history... but it seems pretty extreme to totally shut down the site prior to any adversarial hearing.
- In the last few days and months, Megaupload had announced plans to help artists make more money... and had announced that very successful and famous music producer Swizz Beatz had become CEO of Megaupload. Beatz is also married to recording superstar Alicia Keys and was responsible for getting all those RIAA artists to endorse Megaupload. All indications were that the company was clearly building a legitimate system for artists to make money and fans to get content. And it seemed that many artists clearly supported the site.
- So why do we need SOPA/PIPA again? It seems like the DOJ/ICE just undermined the key argument of the MPAA/RIAA/US CoC for why they need these laws. After all, Megaupload was one of the key examples used for why the law was needed.
- At the same time there are huge questions about why the government is involved here. Megaupload is currently engaged in a lawsuit in the US -- and contrary to claims of SOPA/PIPA supporters, the company seemed more than willing to appear in court to deal with civil copyright claims. Why leap to criminal claims?
- Is this really the message the US DOJ and White House want to be giving the day after mass, widespread protests happened concerning a fear that this new law would be used to take down websites? Honestly, this is a big "fuck you" to the protestors, showing that the government already has this power thanks to the last law they passed: ProIP (which they promised they'd never abuse).
- The indictment itself -- embedded below -- is so full of hyperbole ("Mega Conspiracy") it sounds like it was written by the entertainment industry itself...
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Filed Under: copyright, criminal copyright, cyberlockers, doj, fbi, foreign rogue sites, ice, indictment, kim dotcom, pipa, protect ip, seiruzes, sopa, swizz beatz
Companies: megaupload
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Can someone crunch the numbers?
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The Indictment
Have you read the Indictment? I'm reading it right now and paragraphs 20-24 lead me to believe that they were in fact running afoul of the DMCA provisions. Please let me know what you think. This one MAY BE legitimate.
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Reading the indictment...
I particularly liked the way they managed to bring up the fact that MegaUpload hosted "child pornography and terrorist propaganda", and then use the fact that they removed the stuff against them around para 24.
As a non-USian, I'm beginning to wonder if I should move away from US hosting providers, domain names, advertisers and users, just in case, so that they can't claim jurisdiction over me...
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yet another big "FUUUUUU" to the American Public
welcome to the Incorporated States of America...land of the un-free home of the greed....
I wish I could leave this country before they decide to close the borders to prevent piracy...
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It's even more interesting in Paragraphs 25+.
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Anyway, I'm sure we'll have much more to say about all of this... but wow is the timing dumb on the government's part. Not only does it undermine the argument for PIPA/SOPA, but it answers significant questions about whether or not the feds already have too much censorship power.
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Re: Reading the indictment...
As a USian, I would recommend that you do. I'm beginning to think that the only way to fix the system is to let it completely collapse, then pick up the shattered pieces afterwards.
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Move is perfectly timed
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A warning to the MPAA/RIAA
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Won't work.
And taking down megaupload has a double benefit! Since they were suing UMG, and UMG is cozy in bed with our Dear Leaders, they must be treated like a gang of baby-rapers.
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Re:
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Sorry what is happening with mega upload?
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goes to show the lengths the entertainment industries will go to to ensure artists dont go 'independent' but carry on lining the pockets of the execs. after the 'mega video' that was posted a few weeks ago and the statement Kim made about being 'totally legit', i hope he has his arse well and truly covered.
another point is, it shows who is running the NZ government, doesn't it?
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Re: Reading the indictment...
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Why is it extreme? That what the law permits. What did you expect, "pretty please"?
So why do we need SOPA/PIPA again? It seems like the DOJ/ICE just undermined the key argument of the MPAA/RIAA/US CoC for why they need these laws. After all, Megaupload was one of the key examples used for why the law was needed.
Megaupload had a US connection (VA servers) if they hadn't, they'd have been out of the jurisdiction of US law enforcement. That's why. But you know that all ready, don't you Masnick?
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Re: yet another big "FUUUUUU" to the American Public
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Insanity Wolf
Yes the likes of RapidShare and HotFile have been found to be lawful and protected under DMCA law. Since MegaUpload followed these rulings, and is a DMCA "safe harbour" company, then what is different? Maybe that is simply because Mega were aiming to rival the RIAA by building a legitimate business.
The DoJ indictment is insane claiming things like "they do not provide a search function". Are the DoJ retarded now when in past US Court cases Cyberlockers were banned offering this feature! Then they say their top 100 is not fair and only includes lawful downloads! So is the DoJ saying they want Mega to promote copyright infringement?
I could bare to read no more. We know the RIAA and ICE is working together and when you annoy UMG then guess what happens?
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Death Nell?
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an alternative approach?
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Re:
We will soon see if that one lives on.
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Re: A warning to the MPAA/RIAA
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I wonder where the MPAA/RIAA would be if instead of wasting billions in lobbying Congress they used it to "innovate" and create a bette business model.
Who am I kidding they would never do that.
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time to put a stop to this
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Re:
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Re: Re: yet another big "FUUUUUU" to the American Public
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Re: Reading the indictment...
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Did you hear that?
It is the sound of ten thousand people that will never, ever support Hollywood or any conglomerated recording industry, out of spite.
It is the sound of hundreds of thousands of dollars being exchanged in Countries for new technology services that won't we impacted by these takeover laws.
Keep listening...
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Re:
I have had no forgiveness for them ever since they allowed the Mexican Drug Lords to launder over $250 billion through the US Banking system and into the World economy.
That failure was too great. Would those responsible please fall on their swords.
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Re: Death Nell?
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Re: time to put a stop to this
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Anonymous takes down justice.gov and universalmusic.com
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Re:
This is disgusting to occur, frankly.
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Re: Can someone crunch the numbers?
We need to convince the government to think clearly for just a couple of minutes. A website which spreads the benefits of the product to EVERYONE clearly has immense social utility. Not only that, it earns profits on the same order of magnitude as the entertainment industry's ridiculous claims. Sounds like a GREAT scenario to me, no government intervention necessary. Literally everyone wins.
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Re:
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Re:
http://vimeo.com/33424808
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Re:
That's two posts, almost in a row. First paragraph 24, now 25?
Since when did DMCA become a criminal statute, and since when did DMCA become a criminal statue outside the US? This would have to be tried *in* the US to determine that.
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Re: Re:
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Seizure webpage seems predudicial
Nowhere on the page does it note that people are innocent until proven guilty.
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Re: Re: Re: yet another big "FUUUUUU" to the American Public
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Re: The Indictment
Will have more detailed comments on the indictment later. But just note: ignoring DMCA alone isn't enough for criminal charges...
Separately, it's always seemed clear that Mega had some sketchiness behind it. It very well may have violated the law. But I'm questioning the way this was done (and the timing).
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Re:
Let's start simple: paragraphs 24-25 were already proven to be a lie in court.
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Re: Re: time to put a stop to this
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Re:
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Re: Death Nell?
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Re:
That makes no sense.
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Re:
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Re: Re: Re: time to put a stop to this
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Re:
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Re: Re: Reading the indictment...
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Re:
I've never been in favor of anarchy, but the events of the last year have left me wanting to simply raze everything to the ground and start building it back from the Founding Fathers' framework.
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Re: yet another big "FUUUUUU" to the American Public
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Re: Re: Can someone crunch the numbers?
About 75% of the Top 100 movies were designed for families/children, and yet it can be difficult for a family to literally find ANYTHING to watch at the theater on many weekends. Instead, the theaters are full of all kinds of awful trash that pushes Hollywood's ideologies and tries to ram them down everyone's throats.
Why? They could make a great family movie and make a killing. Because they would rather try to control society instead and make everyone like them so they can feel like their screwed-up lives are normal.
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Re: Did you hear that?
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FUCK YOU MAFIAA
I HOPE YOU BURN IN HELL LEECHES ON LIFE.
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Re: Anonymous takes down justice.gov and universalmusic.com
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Re: Re: Death Nell?
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Re: Re:
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Coordinated Effort
The US government has adopted a multi-pronged approach to shutting down websites its MPAA and RIAA contributors see as a threat to their business models: Treaties, foreign pressure, domain name shutdowns, laws such as SOPA and PIPA -- all part of a concerted effort to protect the interests of the content industry at the public's expense.
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Re: Re: time to put a stop to this
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Re: Re:
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Re: Insanity Wolf
I also feel that the timing had to do with them making moves towards becoming a legitimate business in direct competition to RIAA. Better squash them before they become too big/successful. That's the real fear of the industry gatekeepers: legitimate competition. As long as they're just dirty pirates they actually serve a purpose as a scapegoat.
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Re: Coordinated Effort
Of course it is. It's an election year, and no one likes those bills.
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The Feds just declared war on the Internet. *grabs popcorn*
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Re: Re: The Indictment
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Re:
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web lockers
UP YOURS RIAA.
I am now one mad puppy and I bite.
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Databanks
When someone at you bank is indited on fraud or other financial abuses, does the government come in and close the bank and leave all its customers without their money? Nope!
Sounds like the issue could be fixed fairly easily and bring the site within the scope of the DMCA. Perhaps the four that are being charged are out and new management needs to be brought in, but we all know that's not going to happen. By the time anything of Megaupload is returned to the Internet, it'll be a shell of itself and probably all of it's data scrubbed.
This most certainly will put a chill on cloud services.
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Re: A warning to the MPAA/RIAA
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Re: Re: Re: Can someone crunch the numbers?
It's plain to see that people ARE willing to pay, if they think they are getting a good deal out of it.
How can it be THAT HARD for MAFIAA's to stick their stuff out there? Shesh.
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Re: Re: Re: Can someone crunch the numbers?
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Re:
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My 2¢
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Re: Re:
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Re: Re: Re: The Indictment
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War
On a more productive note...
From the press release:
"Instead, the indictment alleges that the conspirators manipulated the perception of content available on their servers by not providing a public search function on the Megaupload site and by not including popular infringing content on the publicly available lists of top content downloaded by its users."
So offering a search feature that allows anyone to find copyrighted content is providing tools that facilitate infringement, yet not offering a search feature is "manipulating the perception of content available." Are you fucking kidding?
"For example, when notified by a rights holder that a file contained infringing content, the indictment alleges that the conspirators would disable only a single link to the file, deliberately and deceptively leaving the infringing content in place to make it seamlessly available to millions of users to access through any one of the many duplicate links available for that file."
So we're back to the general knowledge of infringement happening on the site argument again? How many courts have to say that it's the copyright holder's responsibility to provide specifics? It sounds like when DMCA notices contained a link to the file, it was disabled, as per the law.
"The indictment charges the defendants with conspiring to launder money by paying users through the sites’ uploader reward program and paying companies to host the infringing content."
I suppose there's a few ways to interpret that, but how is a well known rewards program that does what it says money laundering? And paying companies to host the infringing content... we'll need some specifics there, but if Mega was just purchasing additional space for what their users uploaded then this makes no sense at all.
Unless the DOJ has some really specific credible evidence, this is going to seriously blow up in their faces.
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Re: Re: Re: time to put a stop to this
In recent years the only notable achievement was pissing of the world...
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Re: Re: Reading the indictment...
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Re: Re: Insanity Wolf
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Re: Re: Re: Mega Upload aids in creating content
They're merely a specialized way to distribute data, much like a web site but aimed at downloads rather then browsing.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: time to put a stop to this
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Re: Re: Re: Re: The Indictment
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Re: My 2¢
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Re: Re:
Umm...they've just been arrested TODAY. So...I highly doubt they've had their day in court just yet.
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Re: Re: yet another big "FUUUUUU" to the American Public
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Re: Re: Anonymous takes down justice.gov and universalmusic.com
Glad they did not do this yesterday. Would have looked bad for anti-sopa measures.
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Re: Re: Re: time to put a stop to this
In 1794, Congress narrowly voted against publishing laws in German as well as English. While it likely wouldn't have made German the official language (as English is not either, we have no official language in this country), it is easy enough to see that something like Canada's French speaking population emerging here if history was just a tiny bit different.
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Re: Re: Re:
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Counter this if you hjave something of value lost
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Re: Re: Can someone crunch the numbers?
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Re: Re:
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In related news
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To paraphrase everyone's favorite cyborg...
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Re: Databanks
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Re: Databanks
Yes but how about a bank that turns a blind eye to money laundering or some other financial crime? Guess what happens to them then?
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Re:
I'm pleased to see more and more people realizing this truth. The "cloud" is useful for a lot of things, but using it as a backup solution isn't one of them.
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Re: Anonymous takes down justice.gov and universalmusic.com
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Re: Re: yet another big "FUUUUUU" to the American Public
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Re: Re: Re: Insanity Wolf
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Re: War
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Re: Re: Re:
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Re: Re: Insanity Wolf
Read the press release more carefully. Its the same general knowledge issue that courts have shot down repeatedly. Content companies are expecting that if they tell a hosting company that movie ABC is on their servers and provide one link to it, that the hosting company has to magically make all the links they weren't told about disappear as well.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: time to put a stop to this
But in all fairness, my remark is a bit crude. What annoys me most is that the people and entrepeneurs in America were a driving force behind this great thing called the internet, but now it's litigated into oblivion. This, combined with the attitude against foreign nations doesn't make them very popular.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Indictment
"I have always murdered mass, I beat the crap out of energy a couple years ago, too."
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Re: Re: Re: Can someone crunch the numbers?
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Re: Re:
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Re: Re: Re: Insanity Wolf
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Re: Counter this if you hjave something of value lost
I think you misunderstand or are a complete idiot, perhaps both. The industry took no action, the Justice Dept. did.
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Re:
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Re: Re:
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Re:
Wait, wait.. so you're saying that if the law permits it then it can't be extreme? Do you also think that lawful equates to moral?
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Re:
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Re: Re: Re:
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Re: Re: The Indictment
+1 insightful. more than you realize.
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Re: Re: War
Are you actually going to address any of the points I made, or just make some pitiful two-bit attempt to insult me?
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Re: Re: Counter this if you hjave something of value lost
Also this brings about the primary question-
Why aren't we asking why is a civil matter in a criminal court? Why does my tax money pay for this shit?
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Re: DMCA
Okay, even if true, the site was owned and operated in Hong Kong. Since when are Chinese citizens obligated to obey a US law?
I certainly am not obligated to obey Chinese laws when I put things up on the Internet.
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Re: Re: Re:
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Re: Re: Re: The Indictment
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Re: Re: Re: time to put a stop to this
Fuck you playing the "'we' saved the world during world war 2" card...
Yes, thank you for the Marshallplan. That has been what 65 years ago?! Get over yourself, yankie doodle!
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Too mad.....
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Re: Re: Re: time to put a stop to this
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Re: Re: DMCA
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Re: Re: Re: Insanity Wolf
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Re: To paraphrase everyone's favorite cyborg...
What will be back are a hundred clones, distributed around the world, each partially backing up the other so that a takedown of any one still leaves multiple copies of the data available. They'll use full-disk encryption and onion routing -- among other things.
And if those are targeted?
A thousand clones.
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You really don't have to look farther than this to see why the *AA's consider MU to be so dangerous. Sure they go on and on about how much of a pirate haven it is, but that's just smokescreen to cover up the fact that they're going after the site to crush a potential competitor now, before it reaches the point where they have to either move out of the digital stone age and start actually serving* their customers, or don't, and go out of business.
*Since they don't see to have caught on to the difference yet, I suppose I should clarify that I mean serving their customers their product, not legal notices. Big difference there.
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Re: Re:
> to you, you are still breaking the law.
Only if it's actually a pirated copy. If you, for example, just use a proxy that masks your place of origin and that enables you to access a legitimately provided stream of a TV show or movie, that's not a crime.
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Re: Re:
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. —Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government.
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Re: Re:
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Re: Re: Re: Insanity Wolf
I'm not sure what they base these claims on specifically as I don't really have any idea how that site operated.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: The Indictment
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Re: Extreme
I think the point here is that the law itself is extreme.
> What did you expect, "pretty please"?
No, but a little due process, or at least its pretense, would be nice.
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Re: Re: Databanks
Did MegaUpload "turn a blind eye" or did they follow the law when they were told their service was being used for specific acts of copyright infringement?
Can you point out a single time that MegaUpload was presented via a DMCA notice with a link to an unauthorized copyrighted file on their server and did not disable the access to that link? Or more pertinent, can the DOJ?
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Re: Re: Counter this if you hjave something of value lost
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Re: Re: Databanks
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Re: Re: Re: Re: The Indictment
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Re: Too mad.....
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Re:
So it shouldn't be surprising that, just from reading the allegations, it seems Megaupload is guilty. If it read otherwise, that's a good indication the pleading may be defective. But just because the case was properly plead is not a good indicator of a defendant's guilt.
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Re: Re: Re: Anonymous takes down justice.gov and universalmusic.com
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Why focus on stopping the bill du jour, when they'll just make an even worse one right away? Instead, we should take a stand against the companies that bribe their way into running things, and the flaws in the government that let them.
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Re: Aussies
I don't defend any of the authoritarian crap currently coming out of my government, but when you guys get rid of your Censorship Boards and mandatory Internet filtering and official lists of banned web sites, then you can talk to us about how unfree we are.
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Re: Re: Databanks
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Re: Re:
What's that? My quotation is illegal under SOPA? Well, [ad hominem]!
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Re: Re: Re:
Ya know, if the **AA's were freaking smart, if they didn't WANT to put in the time and effort to convert all their films to a streaming format, they could have totally done THE SAME THING THEMSELVES......make it to where users could upload the DVD's they already purchased, then sort out the bads (aka not their stuff), and *BAM* there is money in the Internet.
Allow x amount to be streamed for free, pay x (reasonable) amount to watch the whole thing. Someone else is doing all the work.....
...........
Back on topic.....reading thru that pdf...how did they get money laundering out of all of that?
Oh Yea, and one more thing, this is something I have been saying all along....
"On or about May 13, 2011, members of the Conspiracy infringed the copyright of the motion picture “Thor” by making it available on publicly accessible Internet-connected servers
The film, which had been released in U.S. theaters on or about May 6, 2011, was not commercially distributed in the United States until on or about September 13, 2011. "
The movie came out May 6, and on May 13th, it was available on their site.
So tell me how....how was this done if it wasn't someone already in the movie business? It's not like the average user at home had access to a DVD to rip and upload.
I have been saying it all along.....MPAA needs to look at their own industry...period.....as they are the ones with access to the content first.
Which leads me to ask....was it an inside job uploading all of these files all along?
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Re: Re: Re: Anonymous takes down justice.gov and universalmusic.com
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Mega Upload aids in creating content
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Re: Re: Databanks
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Re: Re: Databanks
> money laundering or some other financial crime? Guess
> what happens to them then?
I can tell you what *doesn't* happen. They don't shut the entire bank down and tell all the innocent depositors that their money has been confiscated and they'll likely never see it again.
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Re: Re:
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I'm sure this was planned and in the works way before blackout day was planned, however this is exactly the message they wanted to send. The DOJ doesn't care what anybody thinks. They just follow orders. If you want to blame someone, it's Biden.
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The truth about SOPA & PIPA
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Re: Re: Re: Databanks
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Re: Re: Re: Databanks
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Re: Re: Reading the indictment...
hell, Im really wishing I could move the fuck out of this country and sit back and watch it collapse in on itself from afar...
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MegaVideo
Of course, their search wasn't all that great, do it was often better to use Google to search for good MegaVideos, as the entire site is searchable (even not existing, it's in Google's cache). Wonder if Google should be cited for "direct infringement" next?
Looks like the FBI went after the low-hanging fruit. There are only 5 counts of infringement according to news reports. This makes it sound like they're trumping up the Perfect10 case to make a big New Zealand arrest of a German citizen over standing related to the 12 servers in Virginia, and internal pointers to the files used by MegaVideo.
This case is going to be lost in the courts, but not before the US gov makes hay about how they are big bad enforcers.
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Re: Re: Aussies
There are reports stuff is going on behind closed doors but I don't believe anything has been prepared for a vote yet in regards to passing those laws.
I will agree with censorship Boards but that likes like changing soon as well and we may well be getting an R18 classification for games in the year future.
Even with all that i still believe we are a lot better off in Australia han USA in regards to freedoms and losing civil liberties. Although with the closeness our two countries have politically it seems anything US Govt decides our politiians seem to follow blindly no matter what the consequences are.
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Re: Re: Re:
but its more likely they would want to imprison them for a while to give the prison lobby their support/money first.
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Re: Re: Re: Reading the indictment...
Actually, I am kinda hoping technology like CCC's satellite will make the whole system moot. Since there are already numerous treaties that outlaw governments from owning space, if the internet exists entirely within space, the only thing governments can do is outlaw connection to the internet. At that point, government control will fundamentally disappear. The internet will finally be free of the burdens of government. Putting the DNS root on a satellite, controlled by a company on the Isle of Man or Antarctica would be the ticket. We'd have to figure out how to protect the satellites during solar storms, but that is a technical problem that has technical answers, not bat-shit crazy ones that come when you deal with politicians.
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Re: Re: The Indictment
Hey, a guy can dream.
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Re: Re: Re: War
It's pretty clear cut where the money was going.
Seems like someone needs to be looking into the MAFIAA accounting....I'm pretty damn sure there's some laundering of money going on there!
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Indictment
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Re: Reading the indictment...
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Re: Re: Re: Re:
True, so it would've been no big deal to delay action for a couple of weeks or even a month so as to avoid looking this bad. But that would've required actually understanding the massive level of anger SOP/PIPA have caused.
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Re: Re: Re:
We forget it now, but at the time this was written, it was an act of sedition/extremism/terrorism. Every person involved with its creation and signing knew that they could have been arrested and put to death for treason. What is sad is that it has gone full circle that the very document instrumental in forming this nation and in setting its path forward is seen now as an act of treason.
I wish I had a patent on a device that turned spinning bodies in the grave into infinite energy, because the founding fathers would make me rich right now.
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Looks like I was wrong. There's two in the comments on this article today. Guess we weren't THAT lucky.
Figures that while the internet put them and their ilk in their places, they'd disappear.
First chance they get though the gloating, moral judgements, ad homs, apparently omnipotent knowledge of EVERYTHING (including facts related to a seizure that just took place today), etc. are unleashed upon us.
Kudos to you, trolls. Kudos to you. Humility is not your specialty and damn any who would ask you to behave like RATIONAL adults. You go on with your bad selves.
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Re: The Indictment
There have been arrests, and an indictment... But that's still not "proven guilty."
Shouldn't MU be "out on bail" and able to continue business UNTIL proven guilty, and THEN punished (taken offline)?
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There have been arrests, and an indictment... But that's still not "proven guilty."
Shouldn't MU be "out on bail" and able to continue business UNTIL proven guilty, and THEN punished (taken offline)?
Existing US law allows for seizure, which is effectively the arrest of property. You don't need a trial first in order to arrest a person. Same concept.
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As for timing relative to yesterday's protests, the face of the Grand Jury Indictment shows that it was filed with the Federal District Court in Alexandria on January 5th, which I belive is before talk of protest began its viral spread.
The indictment makes a very interesting read. Large, multinational presence, bank accounts everywhere, large incomes received by principals, miniscule rewards to uploaders (looks like its "rewards" program was a bit parsimonious), a stable of autos rivaling what one sees at the Academy Awards, etc. If any of the property is actually forfeited and placed up for auction, I want dibs on one of the 108" LCD TVs.
Another interesting read is the very few recitations in the indictment about the number of persons in the employ of the MU "family". I was quite surprised to read just how few employees the "family" of companies appear to have. Perhaps the indictment provides but a small sampling.
This will certainly be something to follow over the next year.
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Re: Re: Re: (OP)
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Re: Re: Databanks
I have to see one banker who got punished for laundering drug money for decades heck the government even knew it was happening but because if was a massive amount of money nobody look into it, so there is that.
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Re: Re: Databanks
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Re:
law against small breasts in porn.....sick!!!!
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Re: Reading the indictment...
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Symantic (Norton) Hacked; RIP Megaupload
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Re: Symantic (Norton) Hacked; RIP Megaupload
Anonymous responds by taking down websites belonging to government and recording industry organizations in response to Thursday's shutdown of the file-sharing site Megaupload.com. !
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Re: Symantic (Norton) Hacked; RIP Megaupload
Anonymous responds by taking down websites belonging to government and recording industry organizations in response to Thursday's shutdown of the file-sharing site Megaupload.com. !
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Re: Re: Re: Insanity Wolf
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Re: Re: The Indictment
After all, it's to protect the artists/children/guys with pockets full of untraceable cash for my SuperPAC!
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Re:
No one on the target edge of a filing like this is gonna look like an innocent victim, bystander or scapegoat. The purpose of the argument is to get the authority to do do what they've done.
As Mike says, the timing is suspect at best even if those investigating MegaUpload had been at it for months. Waiting a day or two wouldn't have hurt anything that I can see. What with the New Zealand government acting like an eager to please lap dog in all of this.
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http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2012/01/why-the-feds-smashed-megaupload.ars
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Re:
Ask the fuckwads from anonymous, pissed off because someone took away their (megaupload) binky, lashing out like, well, rational adults, right?
Admit it. It sucks when the law takes away your free pr0n.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Databanks
> > the entire bank down and tell all the innocent depositors
> > that their money has been confiscated and they'll likely
> > never see it again.
> depends on whether their deposits were ill-gotten or not.
What part of 'innocent depositor' is hanging you up?
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Re: Anonymous takes down justice.gov and universalmusic.com
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Re: Seizure webpage seems predudicial
That's because it no longer applies. It may still technically be the law, but today, it's guilty until proven innocent.
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Re: Re: Reading the indictment...
In other words, the U.$. of A$$H@ts has the authority to "extradite" Julian Assange to a country he DOESN'T EVEN COME FROM?!?
Meanwhile the Catholic priests are still hiding out in their gold-lined bunkers in Rome. I mean, seriously, why don't we extradite THOSE dip$h!ts to face charges for REAL crimes committed ON U.S. SOIL?!? Occupy Vatican City already and leave TPB and Mega Upload the EFF alone!
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Re: Re:
I'm not a lawyer. I'm just stating my personal observation.
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Re: Re: The Indictment
The timing is retaliatory I imagine. It was going to happen either way.
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The feds will seize as much of the company's money as possible and start forfeiture proceedings against it as soon as possible. They will drag out the court proceedings as long as possible to ensure that everyone charged runs out of money to fight back with. They will be painted in the worst possible light at trial. The judge will basically order the jury to return a guilty verdict, which they will. It will be on the order of several billion dollars, which the bankrupt company can never hope to pay. They will then use this win to start going after every other cyberlocker site on the net.
Frankly, I can't find the words to properly express how utterly fucking disgusted I am with the DoJ and the US government right now.
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Re: Move is perfectly timed
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Insanity Wolf
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Re: Re: Insanity Wolf
This has as much to do with the mad men of Madison Avenue halting a pre-release of Mad Men as it does with Wall Street and Hollywood & Vine. Because usually what people (scene groups) will do is just upload an XViD or x264 rip directly from the DVD or Blu-Ray, free of commercial interruptions and free ($$$) for anyone to watch.
It really has nothing to do with kiddie diddlers or "terrorist materials." Because those things do occur they're being used as an excuse to go in and shut down torrent and one-click-hosting sites. The MAFIAA figures this is "economic terrorism" because their overpriced commercial crap rife with ads and product placement is losing big bucks to free distribution. TiVo is a service that costs money. So is Internet access, but if, say, you're watching at an Internet cafe or something then you personally don't have to pay. Con-gress and the MAFIAA are just trying to squeeze every last dime out of The People to ensure a stranglehold on profits.
Those who own the means of production and distribution own the whole of society. Karl Marx said that. Piracy is considered "un-American" and socialist because in $$$ we trust. 40 years ago we transgressed our borders to "curb communism" in Vietnam the same way we invaded Hong Kong to "curb piracy." And gee, Vietnam was an epic win, wasn't it? /sarcasm
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Re: Re: Re: War
In related news, a representative from the Department of Justice has announced via Twitter:
"IANAL."
Normally used as an acronym for "I am not a lawyer," in this case the representative's comment is to be read phonetically.
"I anal."
! --- LOL EOF ---
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Re: In related news
Hailey Barber works for the Dept. of Injustice? Who knew?
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Re: Re:
I bet you fsck your mother with that kind of language. (I bet you fsck her anyway, dirty talk notwithstanding.)
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Re: Re: Symantic (Norton) Hacked; RIP Megaupload
In memoriam of civilization I vote we pirate "2012."
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Re: Re:
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: time to put a stop to this
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Re: Re: Aussies
I would have thought that would only be by comparison rather than being an objective truth, but hey what would I know.
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Re: Re: Databanks
The only thing cloud services employ is an army of servers.
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Re:
Seems to be a real trend. None of these sites or services employ anyone.
Reddit only employs 11 people.
Masnick? Zippo.
That's some real innovation and job creation goin on, eh?
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Re:
Megaupload decided to run a bad business model that didn't give a damn about copyright law.
Good riddance to parasitical scum.
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Re: Insanity Wolf
Wasn't this one of the points that got Rapidshare off the hook? Now the DOJ wants it the other way round?
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Re: Re: War
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Re: Re: Counter this if you hjave something of value lost
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Re: Re:
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Re: Re:
[citation needed]
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Re:
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Re: Re: Re: Can someone crunch the numbers?
That's why!
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Re: Did you hear that?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Databanks
Instead of throwing insults, you could have actually pointed out the specifics. Is it so hard to actually back up your position with real facts when you actually have them, or is that a habit you don't want to get in to?
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UMG who took down content not owned by them and lied in legal filings about the content they took down repeatedly.
Megaupload did not run a search system to appease the copyright holders who made that demand.
There are many legitimate uses for the services offered by Megaupload, it is not this amazing hive of nothing by copyrighted material they would have you believe, but then the shills have just been looking at publicly posted links.
Content holders want Megaupload and other cyberlockers to develop systems that their own cost to protect their content, its your content you develop the system - with great power comes great responsibility.
This ends poorly.
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Re: Re:
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Re: Re: Re: Re: time to put a stop to this
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Re: Re:
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Re: Re:
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Re: Re:
Just because there are few employees does not mean they are not creating jobs.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Insanity Wolf
Each image on the disk represents all of the uploads. Each upload represents a separate, possibly infringing, possibly non-infringing, copy of the work. Each upload has distinct ownership and licensing characteristics: if Fred uploads a licensed copy, and George uploads an infringing copy, they both get linked to the same space on disk. This notion of linking should come as no surprise to anyone who understands the concept of linking used in Unix (including OSX), Linux, and Microsoft Windows NTFS.
The critical idea is that the uploads are independent, each from the others — and it's not the physical file that's infringing, it's the upload (copying) and its associated virtual file.
Each upload is given a distinct URL, and represents a different file, a different copy of the work, and a different set of ownership and licensing facts. The idea that the same disk image represents multiple copies is just an implementation detail, using linking to conserve space.
When the copyright holder says "this URL links to an infringing copy of the work", no statement is made about the other virtual copies generated from the same disk image. MU kills the virtual copy that's accused of infringement, and leaves alone the virtual copies that are innocent (so far as either the copyright holder or MU knows) of infringement.
The job for MU is to get this simple truth across to the trier of fact. The job for UMG and their DoJ minions is to obscure the simplicity, and confuse the trier of fact. The job of the UMG/MAFIAA shills here will be the same, with TD readers taking the place of the fact-trier.
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Here lies the truth about SOPA/PIPA that even TechDirt has yet to report: what MPAA, RIAA, and Hollywood execs do not want you to see.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzS5rSvZXe8
The truth behind why these big companies responsible for SOPA and PIPA are also responsible for piracy itself is far more insidious than even their outmoded business model.
Can you say, do as I say so I can crush you under heel?
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Re: Re:
What do you mean by "these sites?"
At first I thought you just meant file lockers, such as Rapidshare or Megaupload. But then you also included Masnick, who does not run a file locker, but a consulting firm and opinion blog (and has more than "zippo" employees).
So, I guess by "these sites," you mean pretty much the entire Internet?
If so, then you're absolutely wrong. According to a study by the University of Maryland (PDF), Facebook alone accounts for the creation of 182,000 jobs.
That is 27,000 more jobs than the number of actors, producers, and directors employed in the entire entertainment industry, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
Make no mistake about it. "These sites" employ vastly more people than the entertainment industry does. It's not even close.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Indictment
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Re: Re: Re:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook
If you want to use the job creation stats, use it for both industries. Not simply to artificially distort one for your own purposes.
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Re:
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If the shoe were on the other foot, I doubt that the supporters of SOPA/PIPA would hesitate to do the same to "win".
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Re:
So the anti-censorship forces would seek to win the day by using censorship? Fascinating hypocrisy.
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Re: Reading the indictment...
You're just now beginning to wonder? ;-)
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Re:
Perhaps the same standard of care that's used for a TRO.
These shenanigans don't exist in a vacuum and the accused still have rights. As someone else pointed out "the company should be out on bail" just like any other accused can expect.
People love to muddle legal concepts until it all leads to something inconvenient.
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Re: Re: Aussies
When they have proven that there is 0 infringement in the states, they can talk to other countries about infringement, until then, get my country off your fucking list!
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Re: Re: Re: time to put a stop to this
I come from the biggest part of North America but I am Canadian, not American.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: time to put a stop to this
But... but... MERIKUH!!
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Re:
That is what makes them "rogue."
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Re: Re:
Can't they just sweet talk violent, out of their minds, people?
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Re: Re: Re: Aussies
When they have proven that there is 0 infringement in the states, they can talk to other countries about infringement, until then, get my country off your fucking list!
Unfortunately your country doesn't produce much worth stealing so you insist on freeloading American content. Believe me no one would care if Canadians only infringed Canadian movies and music. Christ, your entire film industry is American studios using you a their back lot. Face it, you're really just the 51st state and can't compete with us, even in hockey.
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Re: time to put a stop to this
No more foreign aid, no more disaster relief, no more IMF, no more movies, no more music, no more tv, no more internet, no more iPads, etc.
Where do we sign up?
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Re: Re: Re: Counter this if you hjave something of value lost
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Re: Re: Re: Counter this if you hjave something of value lost
"Separately, it's always seemed clear that Mega had some sketchiness behind it. It very well may have violated the law."
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Aussies
Still got that ARROW in your heart eh!
Or is it your ass?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Aussies
"Arrowing!"
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Re: Re: Re: Re:
They employ 3000 people directly. The other hundreds of thousands are people who make their living writing apps that are deployed on Facebook. You know, Farmville, Mafia Wars, that sort of thing.
But if you don't want to believe that study, let's look at some numbers from the same source. (Which would be the Bureau of Labor Statistics, natch.)
Graphic designers: 286,100
Computer network, systems, and database administrators: 961,200
Computer software engineers and computer programmers: 1,336,300
Computer support specialists: 565,700
Computer systems analysts: 532,200
Total: 3,681,500 jobs
Actors, producers, and directors: 155,100
Dancers and choreographers: 29,200
Musicians, singers, and related workers: 240,000
Broadcast and sound engineering technicians and radio operators: 114,600
Television, video, and motion picture camera operators and editors: 51,900
Total: 590,800 jobs
In other words: the tech industry employs about six times as many people as the entire entertainment industry. Each individual sector of the tech industry employs about as many workers as the entire entertainment industry combined.
Furthermore, tech jobs pay far higher wages, are more stable, and employment in this sector is increasing at a much faster rate. In contrast, jobs in the industry are growing about as fast as the average for all occupations (no more, no less), and a significant number of those jobs are part-time (in fact, it's 43% - roughly 103,200 - of musicians, singers, and related workers are part-time; the BLS didn't give the number for actors, producers, and directors, but it's probably similar).
Make no mistake about it: in the current economy, the entertainment industry is a rounding error, and the tech industry (especially the Internet industry) is the major player.
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Shame on New Zealand
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Re: Re:
You don't ever think before you type do you?
Where in any of the comment you replied to was anything about "censorship" mentioned?
I assume you took "delete/suspend their accounts" to be "censorship". However, it is not. Also, sites have a right to do exactly that if you violate their TOS agreements. The same way companies have the same right to do that if you violate warranty agreements, TOS agreements, etc.
Also, note, the comment you replied to said nothing about "win the day". What was merely stated was that those who are advocates of such bills should not be above the same actions being taken against them and their sites. Everyone gets treated the same with the same law applied to everyone equally. And see how they like it or if it doesn't affect them.
You're really grasping at imaginary straws, troll.
Also, I find it amusing you label the comment you replied to "hypocrisy", but never do the same when the MPAA/RIAA or yourself for that matter are caught acting like or sounding like hypocrites. Fascinating hypocrisy on your part there.
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Re: Re:
Legally speaking, it's censorship if it's done by the government. Private actors can censor whatever they like, and it's perfectly legal. It may be a contractual issue, but it's not unlawful censorship.
Having said that, I agree with you. It would not be a wise move. I can't imagine anyone like Facebook even considering this.
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Black March
Thursday, March 1st to Saturday, March 31st, 2012
With the continuing campaigns for Internet-censoring legislation such as SOPA and PIPA, the closure of sites such as Megaupload under allegations of ‘piracy’ and ‘conspiracy’, the time has come to take a stand against music, film, and media companies’ lobbyists.
The only way is to hit them where it hurts.
Their profit margins.
March 2012 is the end of the 1st quarter in economic reports worldwide.
Do not buy a single record. Do not download a single song, legally or illegally. Do not go see a single film in cinemas, or download a copy. Do not buy a DVD in the stores. Do not buy a videogame. Do not buy a single book or magazine.
Wait the four weeks to buy them in April; see the film later, etc. Holding out for just four weeks, maximum, will leave a gaping hole in media and entertainment companies’ profits for the 1st quarter, an economic hit which will in turn be observed by governments worldwide as stocks and shares will blip from a large enough loss of incomes.
This action will give a statement of intent:
“We will not tolerate the Media Industries’ lobbying for legislation which will censor the internet.”
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Counter this if you hjave something of value lost
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Eric F. Vermote & his piracy acts
Voici les graves raisons officielles de la fermeture de Megaupload :
- violation criminelle de droits d'auteurs
- complot de racket
- conspiration de violation de droits d'auteurs
- association de malfaiteurs en blanchiment d'argent.
PAS VRAIMENT "JOLI JOLI" TOUT CELA N' EST-CE PAS ?"
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Re:Black March
Hmm, Pirates not paying for things....They don't anyhow. Who will even notice?
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Re: Re:Black March
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Re: Re: Can someone crunch the numbers?
The best revolt against them will be for us all to STOP wanting to watch their movies, listen to their music or use Microsoft/Apple software. If all can agree to do this and we do this, they (Gov, RIAA, etc) will go away. Its because we need to watch their movies, listen to their music; we give them power to control us.
Peace
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Re: yet another big "FUUUUUU" to the American Public
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