Megaupload Shutdown Means Other Companies Turning Off Useful Services
from the innovation? dept
On Friday, we noted some of the troubling parts of the Megaupload indictment, and how many perfectly legitimate companies did many of the same things that the US government used to suggest that Mega was a evil criminal conspiracy. On Saturday, the NY Times noted that plenty of legitimate companies were getting a bit nervous because of the language in the indictment:But Megaupload was not the only such service on the Web. Many companies have crowded into the online storage market recently, most of them aimed at consumers and businesses that want convenient ways to get big data files out of their teeming in-boxes, off their devices and into the cloud — perhaps so that friends or co-workers can download them. They include MediaFire, RapidShare, YouSendIt, Dropbox and Box.net. And there are similar services from Amazon, Google and Microsoft.And... by Sunday, reports started spreading of other companies that provide useful services to people who want to legitimately share files... shutting down or limiting those services. For example, FileSonic -- one of the most popular cyberlockers -- has basically killed itself by no longer allowing sharing, and only allowing personal backup. Another site, Uploaded.to, then blocked all access from the US. A bunch of other services, including FileServe and VideoBB have been killing their affiliate programs (again, which had been a good way for independent musicians to make money).
All of these market themselves as legitimate ways to store content online. But they are inherently ideal for anyone looking to illegitimately upload and share copyrighted video and audio files. Most companies rarely, if ever, inspect individual files to see if the material they store on behalf of users violates copyrights, unless they are notified by someone claiming infringement.
RIAA supporters are cheering this on -- believing that all of these services really focused on infringing content. But for the many, many artists, companies and individuals who used them legitimately, this is pretty troubling. Useful services are being shut down due to an overreaction on the part of the US government.
Again, this is exactly the kind of collateral damage that many of us were worried about. It's entirely possible (hell, perhaps probable) that the folks behind Megaupload went beyond the confines of the law. And, if that's true, I expect that they will lose in court. But many of us are quite worried about a few things: the fact that the entire site got completely shuttered despite substantial non-infringing uses... and that it's now creating massive chilling effects for legitimate and useful services within the US. Separately, as in the case of Uploaded.to, it's also splintering the internet, by having foreign companies put blocks on US internet users. These kinds of things were exactly what people have been warning about... and yet the US government ignored all those warnings (and probably still doesn't realize what it's kicked off here).
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Filed Under: business models, cyberlockers, features, internet
Companies: fileserve, filesonic, megaupload, upload.to
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It's actually really, really bad
What I find most disturbing is the sites that are simply banning all US IPs. We're quickly becoming pariahs online, and this will likely continue. After all, we've essentially wiped out a useful sector technology of overnight, and this is making a lot of people (NOT just pirates) very, very angry at us the world over.
I really doubt this is going to end well.
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Re: It's actually really, really bad
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Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
Used MediaFire and Rapidshare personally for passing screen shots of a video game (which allowed such screen shots by adding a screen shot capability to the software.) Only use for such cyberlockers, but it appears that this use is now not available to me any more. Too bad, since this was one of the easiest way to communicate with my teammates vital information quickly, since we could use the internal communications platform to pass links to MediaFire/RapidShare instead of giving out our personal email addresses to pass the information.
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Re: Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
Go to any music message board or blog today: all the kids that rip off their music instead of paying for it are scared to death of losing MediaFire and RapidShare.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
Well, we'll just totally believe the Anonymous Coward who isn't offering any evidence to support his claims that he's sent anything at all.
Here, let me try: "I've received so many FALSE DMCA notices, that I can't even begin to count them."
"I'm a really famous actor, I guarantee all of you on this site have heard of me. Of course, I won't reveal who I am, you'll just have to take my word for it."
Lol. Oh you ACs. You're so cute when you resort to making things up, which given who you support is just another usual day at the office for the likes of you.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
It feels awesome to know you can't accept what I said as truth. Because it is.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
Like I said, I'm actually a famous actor and you'll just have to take my word for it.
Likewise, it feels awesome to know that you can't accept that not everyone believes what you say when you say it because you know that what you say is actually false. Because it is.
See how I can turn what you say around?
Evidence would shut me up. Present it. Or quit lying/making stuff up. Also, I'll present evidence showing I am a famous actor when you do the same that you are someone who routinely sends DMCA notices. But let's be clear, are these legit DMCA notices on IP of yours (that you specifically created, not that you bought or "stole", aka had someone sign away the rights to in order to get a short term "gain" of some kind for themselves)? Or are they DMCA notices you send on behalf of the studios/labels and you're just sending them out of some sense of moral outrage because you hate everything that even remotely undermines the role of the middleman in this day and age?
Cause I can send DMCA notices too in that case.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
I don't care what you think.
And if I wanted to not be anonymous anymore, I wouldn't be posting as an AC, now would I?
Have a swell day, Sparky.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
Thank you, have a swell day, Sweetie.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
Until such a time, expect to be called out on every single statement. Expect to have to give proof. Otherwise, you're just wasting your time that could be better spent with your friends and family.
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Not sure I needed to provide evidence in my anecdote about how I used MediaFire/RapidShare to pass pictures from a game, but the game is called Eve Online, and the functionality to take pictures is built into the client, and CCP has been very clear in the fact that movies/pictures taken by their users in game are legal and may be passed around as the user sees fit. Not sure how I can prove that is the only thing I used MegaUpload/RapidShare for, but I do not have accounts on either service and uploaded the pictures anonymously, and I believe anonymous uploads have a rather small limit on file sizes.
Then again, the thread was hijacked as myself and DCX2 were talking about how we legally used the service and AC came along and didn't really offer anything to show us wrong either.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
Until such a time, expect to be called out on every single statement. Expect to have to give proof. Otherwise, you're just wasting your time that could be better spent with your friends and family.
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Cause I can send DMCA notices too in that case."
Uh...yeah...no, actually, you cant. You cant just take it upon yourself to send copyright infringement claims to someone, unless you are ACTUALLY a representative (assigned or because you own them) of the copyright holder acting with their consent. Not that there are ANY penalties for it, or for filing false or grossly incorrect DMCA complaints, as you can apparently do so with impunity and never have to answer for when you are wrong, or even illegally claiming to be the copyright holder, but it doesnt mean you'd be RIGHT in doing so.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
Reason for the takedown it turns out was that they wanted to license the music to be used by another artist.
Thus, at least in this one instance, you CAN send copyright infringement claims on material you DO NOT own.
This was a tactic used by the company to take it down so no one would see it, so they could then try and negotiate with the original artist to take over his creation for their own use.
Also, I'm not saying it would be right to do so. I'm just saying it's something that can be done. Given some of the trolls on here, I wouldn't put it past them to do such a thing regularly. Especially if some of us here put stuff on Youtube or elsewhere that we wanted to freely share. They'd go out of their ways just because of how they are.
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I remember that case, though I can't remember the outcome, but had I been the artist in question I would have sued the crap out of the label for extortion -- they took down legal material in order to get a leg up on negotiations for buying the material. Dirty pool and at a very minimum, I'd ask the judge as a penalty for filing a false copyright claim in order to influence a sale that all their copyrights be null and void, or at least returned back to the artists who should rightfully own them.
Then again, if I was a struggling independent artist, I might not have the capital to go after the fatcats, but at least I'd let everyone know far and wide that they were playing some very dirty pool by keeping me from being able to support myself by blocking my music in order to negotiate sale of my music to them.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
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Which is why there should be stiff penalties for copyfraud.
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Re: It's actually really, really bad
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Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
People are starting to pay attention. The wiser course of action would be to just let it go, to allow nature its long transformative process. Instead, they are, like other before them, trying to stop the process entirely, thereby simply accelerating it.
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Re: Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
Here's to hoping they start taking notice of TPP instead of the one that's pretty much done and over with, maybe we have some chance of influencing the process there if we make enough of an uproar.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
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Re: It's actually really, really bad
I personally know at least two people who were among the most pro-copyright/pro-industry supporters that have now "joined the revolution" and a few more that are beginning to waver in their support. They may have done some damage, but they won us some converts too.
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Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
prior restraint
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Re: It's actually really, really bad
Horse manure. It's an FTP server with a fancier front end. What was wiped out was a way of paying people to seed content that wasn't theirs.
There are plenty of legit options. Amazon and iTunes come to mind. And while Steve Jobs was much wealthier that Kim Dotcom, he was never as tacky, garish or just plain gross.
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Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120120/15060817494/busta-rhymes-backs-megaupload- says-record-labels-are-real-criminals.shtml
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Re: Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
And if you believe that MegaUpload was really paying 90 cents on the dollar, you're a real sucker. You don't pay for those jets and that mansion by letting the pirate serfs get 90%.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
You seem to think that MegaUpload, and related sites, only succeed because of copyright infringement. When anyone else points out that e.g. MediaFire and other related sites have perfectly legitimate uses, you then accuse those people of being "rabble rousers" who "support mansions and megarich behavior".
Merely pointing out this lame straw man fallacy should be more than sufficient for a rebuttal.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
Ah, you work for the RIAA and/or MPAA!
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Re: Re: Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
Yes, because people are guilty until proven innocent in your world.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
I was lucky My stuff is on Rapidshare using Directdownloads so I am ok for now but
It just cost me 3000 dollars to buy and put in the servers extra line I need and my clients still can't download at a reasonable speed If it is going to cost more than about another 1000 to get a tolerable speed I am shutting the doors on the section of my life as its not worth it.
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Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
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It's wonderful how they tricked all of the rabble rousers around here to support their mansions and megarich behavior.
That's a trick worth toasting with a Robin Leach-grade glass of Champagne.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
So your pot is calling. It wants to be pink again.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
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Re: Re: Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
And if there's money in giving access to content, shouldn't the labels be trying to copy that move?
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Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
It was never about "paying people to seed content that wasn't theirs", except in a minority of cases. It was about collaboration and bypassing the gatekeepers.
But I guess that's the point you just let whiz right over your head, huh? The fact that these services have substantial non-infringing uses in collaborative efforts and independent distribution. Courtesy of the chilling effects caused by this action, the free speech rights of many American citizens (along with substantial amounts of their data...) have been reduced or destroyed.
But... apparently, copyright trumps the first amendment. I missed that part in my constitutional scholarship, it seems.
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Re: Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
See Golan v Holder.
Clear the dicta out of your mind, and concentrate on what the court did.
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Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
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Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
> Kim Dotcom, he was never as tacky, garish or
> just plain gross.
Since when are any those things illegal?
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Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
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an idiot with a fancier front end!
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Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
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Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
That's why I like you: you just stick to the pertinent facts. No straw men here.
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Re: It's actually really, really bad
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Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
Problem is - if the sharers of copyrighted content migrate to dropbox - given that the other services have been lost - it will come into the cross hairs.
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Re: It's actually really, really bad
If you cannot control all the gates, close the ones you can't.
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Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
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I guess sopa doesn't need to pass.
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Smoke and Mirrors
Instead of worrying about a little shop in China making knock of hand bags, or the fact someone may have uploaded a movie or song file, claiming that it cost's us millions a year and countless jobs with absolutely no hard evidence other then their wet dreams or instead of trying to scare the American public like they did in the 50's of the next big terrorist strike, they need to start working on the real matter here at home.
Fix the Health Care, fix the Immigration issue, Fix the corruption in Corporate America and our own govt then start to worry about the little shit.
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Re: Smoke and Mirrors
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Re: Re: Smoke and Mirrors
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Re: Re: Re: Smoke and Mirrors
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Smoke and Mirrors
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Re: Smoke and Mirrors
would like to know how you make/loose more money then is in existence world wide....
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Re: Re: Smoke and Mirrors
as we can see, that didn't happen. Someone's lieing and/or not doing their job.
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Re: Re: Re: Smoke and Mirrors
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Re: Smoke and Mirrors
illegal immigration=have created a debt so bad? what are you smoking?
Fags like you created this economic chaos!
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Pushing users to illegitimate services
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Re: Pushing users to illegitimate services
Funny thing, though, is that since Google removed the file type restriction on what you can upload to Google Docs, it behaves an awful lot like a file locker. Maybe it's time for Google to stop being defensive and go on the offensive against Hollywood, DC. (yes, I know that doesn't make sense)
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Re: Re: Pushing users to illegitimate services
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Re: Re: Pushing users to illegitimate services
You mean spend even more money secretly funding the pro-piracy astroturfers?
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or not, i sometimes answer things like that despite getting it.
you'll certainly confuse others as to what the point IS though.
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This splintering of the Internet began much earlier, though usually in the reverse (US companies putting blocks on foreign users). So it is not that troubling of a development, since it does not change the status quo much, as long as it does not become common.
What worries me more is US-hosted companies, which do not have the option of simply banning US users.
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The only people who can download are the people who uploaded it.
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I'm easily 100 times more technically savvy that the vast majority of corporate thugs and congressional idiots, and there are 10 year olds out there who can do shit I barely grasp. I fail to see how the content industry and the government accomplish anything by pissing these people off.
Who are they going to call to help them? Google? Dan Kaminsky? Sandia Labs? Vert Sif? They've basically told these people their ideas, input and expertise are unnecessary and irrelevant and basically given them the finger.
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AMRDEC SAFE?
According the entrance page for the service: "SAFE is designed to allow AMRDEC employees and those doing business with AMRDEC an alternative way to send files other than email. SAFE allows for much larger files (up to 2GB) to be sent than is normally allowed via email."
Does the US Army have no legitimate use of this service other than infringement? Is the AMRDEC Commander risking time in prison?
AMRDEC - U. S. Army Aviation and Missile Research Development and Engineering Center
SAFE - Safe Access File Exchange
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Re: AMRDEC SAFE?
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Re: AMRDEC SAFE?
Go Google it.
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The NY Times phrases this like it's something these companies are supposed to be doing instead of responding to DMCA notices like the law actually requires. And they also assume that inspecting the files themselves would somehow magically reveal how the file is being used, whereas an intelligent person knows that the same file could be used for both infringing and non-infinging purposes.
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Here's what they have really managed to accomplish. Killing off a part of the technology in the US that many people used legitimately and removing legitimate money from creative people who used these sites as a way to supplement their income. Millions of legitimate files and links are now dead.
The pirates are now scattering to places they can not be touched under US jurisdiction or the jurisdiction of US friendly countries. Cutting off US consumers for accessing these services for legitimate purposes while creating a gold rush for links that are now dead to be replaced using file sharing services outside of the reach of the US. And pirating will not drop one bit, nor will they make an extra dime.
Way to go Washington.
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Piracy might drop in the short run, but not the long run
I'm starting to think this isn't a war about copyright, it's a war on technology, because that nasty technology is disruptive and makes it too easy to copy stuff.
And yes, I do think this is a war now. The copyright maximalists and the US government have essentially wiped out an entire technology with unproven allegations (MegaUpload's not had their day in court, it's entirely possible they could be found not guilty, in part if not fully). That's definitely an attack, and a rather nasty one at that.
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Re: Piracy might drop in the short run, but not the long run
As somebody that pirates everything online, I can tell you that the people responsible for most DRM-free content do it professionally, they have been getting paid to do it by the file-hosters that offer incentives for files with large downloads. They tend to switch hosting companies whenever incentives stop being offered, they know what they're doing and do it well. You're realistically looking at a day, maybe two while they cherrypick another hosting company that rewards them for traffic.
This is only going to slow down the people who are not using professional releases, the same people who until recently were still using limewire for mp3's and are still kind of confused with trackers, seeds and leeching.
Fact is, work like this just encourages me that the people behind it are not deserving of my money in the slightest. I might actually buy more music if more artists sold products directly from their website.
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Re: Re: Piracy might drop in the short run, but not the long run
But you're absolutely correct, this won't cause much of a delay, if any. The only reason I think it may cause a noticeable drop briefly is because it may take a few weeks for all of the file locker companies to settle down on what they're going to do. Until then, it'll be a bit chaotic and can't really settle down, so pirating may drop due to that. But it will go back up again.
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Re: Re: Piracy might drop in the short run, but not the long run
I might actually buy more music
No you wouldn't. You're a liar and a slimeball, and you and everyone else knows it.
Now go die in a fire.
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Re: Re: Re: Piracy might drop in the short run, but not the long run
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Re: Re: Re: Piracy might drop in the short run, but not the long run
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Re: Re: Piracy might drop in the short run, but not the long run
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Un/intended consequences
One would think that a normal part of the DOJ analysis on whether to move ahead with a certain legal action would be to 1) consider the possible consequences of that action and 2) after the action is taken, to review what the actual consequences were. What scary is that the DOJ either didn't do Option 1, did do Option 1, but wanted these chilling effects, or hasn't done Option 2. Any combination of those options is frightening.
Can they really be called unintended consequences if you never even bother to consider the consquences in the first place?
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Re: Un/intended consequences
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Re: Un/intended consequences
Keep in mind that you're talking about law enforcement not actual full formed human beings. There's a reason why the military catch-all for anyone enlisted with no value or skills becomes an M.P.
The general rule to follow is anyone in law enforcement is a subhuman creature. I find that most are basically the equivalent to maggots or dung beetles.
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Megaupload down
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So is it an overreaction if the charges are true? What did you expect them to do?
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Re:
They are doing this to avoid having the US Government having them arrested in their home country and extradited to face puffed up charges and ruin them financially for the amusement of the US IP cartel.
I expect them to stop listening to the IP Cartel, the GAO showed they are flat out lying about the "damages" they are actually facing. I'd expect the law to not be used at the whim of the people with the largest checkbook.
I'd expect them to pay for better shills... but I can't have everything.
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Look, legal, legit, and paid for hosting for the small amount of data you guys would use in normal terms for normal files is cheap as chips. You can find hosting for $5 a month all over the place.
One example cited was companies or lawyers who had files lost as a result of these shutdowns. Honestly, if you are operating your business or taking legal advice from people who would put valuable files on a server they don't control, on a service they don't control, and on a service that could disappear at any time, then you need to change lawyers or business models. If things have value to them, then apply value to them and take care of them. Pay a small fee for basic hosting, take care of your valuable files and information.
All the whining here in the end is just a cover up for the real truth: People are pissed off that they paid for access to pirated stuff, and suddenly they cannot get it anymore.
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That seems like a loosing business plan, yet they are making lots of money.
The legal problems coming at them included having paid their hosting providers for servers and bandwidth. This is money laundering according to the Government.
They shut down cyberlockers, they didn't get TPB offline. If people want content they will always find a way.
All of your lip flapping is to try and counter bob being high as a kite and posting... your not doing much better.
2/10 - You almost make it sound reasonable, but your still out of your mind.
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Sorry, you left out key components of the discussion. The upload isn't just free, it is in fact paid for. The more people buy memberships as a result of your upload, the more money the uploader makes. It's called motivation.
Downloads are also not free. They are limited, slow, and require great patience to get anything larger than a word document or single image file. The way to get around those limits? Buy a download pass!
The legal problems coming at them included having paid their hosting providers for servers and bandwidth. This is money laundering according to the Government.
The money laundering involves taking the money obtained in the illegal transaction (nowingly offering access to pirated material), and they using that money to further that and other businesses. You need to learn and understand what money laundering means.
It all comes back to the same thing: selling access to pirated material, and using that money to enrich themselves and their other businesses.
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You've never used the service at all and are merely parroting the same message bob was, albeit more coherently.
You seem to be assuming every file on MU was infringing in some way, another clear sign of shillhood.
Disney pirated many stories out of the public domain and used their power and influence to make sure that they were the only ones to profit from them. So... Disney is like a cyberlocker?
Uploads on cyberlockers are free, they did however offer better terms for their service if you paid a fee. The fee was not mandatory and the limits not so great if you chose not to use the pay model. This is what is known as freemium.
The money laundering comes from some emails alleged to be from 2006, that they really haven't shed any light upon as to how they obtained these communications. They seem to have a stool pigeon providing them information in return for not being thrown in jail for 22 bajillion years for the horrible crime of possible copyright infringement facilitation. Under this new doctrine we should have every type of media manufacturer in court paying up money, as any storage medium can be used to facilitate copyright infringement.
2/10 - Still not ready for prime time, if you can't beat me your no match for the regulars.
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Their last three original properties were Pirates of the Caribbean, Ratatouille and Finding Nemo, and two of them weren't actually done by Disney themselves.
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No it isn't. First of all, the USPS, FedEx, UPS, etc all have dedicate functions to assure that their legitimate businesses are not used for the furtherance of crime. What do you think would happen to a delivery service that took absurdly (and deliberately) ineffective measures to prevent people from shipping drugs around world? They'd be seized and the principals would be jailed. And that a portion of their business was from Amazon or other legitimate merchants would not save them.
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Yeah, you know what those dedicated function are? Assisting law enforcement when there's a court order.
Do you know what none of them do? Routinely examine the contents of the packages to detect copyright violations (or drugs, etc., except for maybe letting a dog sniff the outsides.)
Why should cyberlockers be treated any differently?
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And what is the penalty if someone is caught misusing FedEx, etc for criminal purposes? Jail.
What's the penalty for both the uploader and the website if they violate the DMCA on a cyberlocker? Nothing.
Sounds real fair...
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And we all know, that life just ALWAYS is fair. /s
Is it fair that downloading an album and stealing the same album both carry completely opposite fines?
Is it fair that file lockers, from which indie bands could freely share their music now have had that avenue closed to them due to the actions of middlemen and people supposedly fighting for "the artists"?
Is it fair that the MPAA/RIAA can use propaganda and cut people out of technical related discussions, then turn around and cry foul when it's done to them (as if they aren't guilty of it themselves)?
Your views on fair are very hypocritical. When it's in your best interest, that's life. When it's against your interest, no fair.
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??? What? No. That was my point.
One you get a fine, the other you go to jail.
Is it fair that file lockers, from which indie bands could freely share their music now have had that avenue closed to them due to the actions of middlemen and people supposedly fighting for "the artists"?
Only slimeballs refuse to face the consequences of their actions: If pirates hadn't misused filelockers, these actions wouldn't have happened. If filelockers want to provide a service, they should figure out a way to do it so that if someone misuses it, they can be punished.
That's how public storage works, and there's no reason it shouldn't be the same in cyberspace.
Is it fair that the MPAA/RIAA can use propaganda and cut people out of technical related discussions, then turn around and cry foul when it's done to them (as if they aren't guilty of it themselves)?
Feel free to share all the alternatives the tech industry offered.
What a load.
The tech industry decided to fight the bill with lies and never had any intention of trying to come to a compromised solution.
Your views on fair are very hypocritical. When it's in your best interest, that's life. When it's against your interest, no fair.
You're completely full of shit and I've had better debates with 3rd graders.
Have a great day.
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What a load.
The tech industry decided to fight the bill with lies and never had any intention of trying to come to a compromised solution."
The tech industry was denied entry into debates and shouted down at every turn or dismissed outright. Now you want them to "come to the table" when you've been put in your place by them and the people. They wanted to meet with you and discuss alternatives, you didn't let them.
Now you want their input? Lol. That's just a line being used to not come off as the b*stards you are. It's just an attempt to quell the outrage of the public which you brought on yourselves.
The tech industry fought the bills by bringing them to light and informing the public, something you didn't see fit to do. They never lied about anything, unlike you. They pointed out the flaws over and over and as I said, they were dismissed outright or blatantly lied about BY YOUR KIND.
And I sincerely doubt you've had any kind of "better" debate with anyone. If your idea of "debate" is "I'm right, you're all wrong" (which it seems to be), then no, that's not a better debate. That's just you refusing to actually debate anything.
The one full of shit here would be you. Mike's other articles point out all the hypocrisy by the studios/labels. And link to other articles where the tech industry was deliberately excluded from debating or voicing their thoughts on anything. Not once did your side want to allow any input on these bills by anyone, the tide turned and now you're trying to salvage what you can but it's too late. The people know and the people won't stand for anything of the sort to pass. Including some of the people who it's "for".
Face it, you lost. Find a towel to cry in. When you're ready to have a real debate, we'll be around. Til then, good day.
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Why should they? This is a serious question. Sure, it would be nice of them, but why should this be required?
Likewise:
"Feel free to share all the alternatives the tech industry offered."
Actually, they've offered a lot of alternatives. A lot of alternatives have been offered on TechDirt as well.
But, again, why is it their responsibility to offer any at all? Why is it considered some kind of slam against anyone for not offering alternatives. The piracy mess is a result of the *AAs failings. Why is it up to anyone else to clean up their problem?
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That's how public storage works, and there's no reason it shouldn't be the same in cyberspace.
1. I don't see why legitimate users of file lockers should lose out here they aren't doing anything wrong. Your sense of fairness is defective.
2. Sometimes changes in technology force changes in the law - because without that we cannot have the benefits of the technology. This has already happened with copyright - when all the ephemeral copies that computers make were legalised. It will have to happen again or we will all lose out.
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Perhaps, but X-rays cannot determine if a substance is illegal or if the package contain a copyright violation. The x-rays are looking for things that could be bombs. These services are commonly used to distribute contraband, and are a low-risk way of doing so.
The package delivery services can't police for copyright violations (or effectively for drugs) for the same reason file lockers can't -- it's not so easy to tell that the contents are illegal just by looking.
"And what is the penalty if someone is caught misusing FedEx, etc for criminal purposes? Jail."
Actually, no. Jail might result for the crime committed, but not for using FedEx to do it.
"What's the penalty for both the uploader and the website if they violate the DMCA on a cyberlocker? Nothing."
You're just making stuff up now. There are very real penalties for violating the DMCA. The penalties could possibly even include jail.
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Really? Since 1998 how many people have actually been jailed under the DMCA versus the billions of illegal downloads.
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Notice you said if someone is caught using FedEx the person can go to jail but in the other one you want both punished hypocrite.
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"The Air Courier Conference of America, an industry trade group with a board of directors that includes UPS and FedEx executives, fired back. James A. Rogers, chairman of the group's international committee, sent a letter to Customs that said any "assertion that the increased drug seizures are evidence that the express industry is now the preferred conduit for drug traffickers is a huge jump to a very wrong conclusion." The drug-seizure increase, he said, was the result of "copious efforts" by carriers to work with law enforcement. "At the very least, we believe a public apology is in order," Mr. Rogers demanded in the letter.
He didn't get one. Instead, top Justice Department officials suggested to Attorney General Reno in early 1998 that she convene a working group from officials at the DEA, the FBI, the Postal Inspection Service, FedEx, UPS, Airborne, DHL, the Emery Worldwide Airlines unit of CNF Inc. and state and federal prosecutors to discuss a coordinated, nationwide approach to interdicting drug movements. A key element promoted by some of the law-enforcement officials, according to a top postal-inspection official, was to give law enforcement access to the private databases of the big shippers.
That was a particularly thorny proposition for FedEx and UPS, which have spent fortunes to build the information systems needed to orchestrate their clockwork deliveries. Each package moving through their systems -- about 18 million a day combined -- is hit by electronic scanners at least a half-dozen times during even a short journey within the U.S. As a result, at any instant, the companies' computers can zero in on the exact locations of items in transit and the history of other shipments by the same sender or to the same recipient.
The private-sector delivery companies -- but not the Postal Service -- are required to supply Customs agents with an electronic record of delivery-manifest information on all international shipments destined for the U.S. Customs officials then use their own computers to check for clues of drug smuggling hidden in the addresses, descriptions of contents and other data about each package. A box speeding via FedEx, for example, toward the same address as a previous package nabbed by a drug-sniffing dog usually will be flagged by the computer. And agents may inspect any international package on a private carrier without a search warrant.
But the private carriers aren't required to provide the same data to law-enforcement agencies about packages being shipped within the U.S., and all foreign-bound Postal Service shipments are exempt from scrutiny without a warrant. Postal officials say the law is clear: Mail is just as protected from warrantless searches as someone's house. "There is a delicate balance between defending the borders and protecting the privacy rights of our citizens," says Kenneth Newman, deputy chief in the Postal Inspection Service's criminal-investigations unit. The Postal Service currently is fighting draft federal legislation that it claims would allow Customs to freely search mail leaving the U.S.
In the meetings of the Justice Department task force last year and early this year, which weren't attended by Ms. Reno, officials from the express-delivery companies insisted that they must walk a similarly fine line, even though the constitutional protections of the mail don't apply to them, according to people who attended the sessions."
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How about actually holding a trial and discovering whether the charges are true before shutting down the business? Did the continued operation of these websites threaten the life of anyone? Were the websites somehow going to "take it on the lam"?
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A drug company can be investigated for, charged with, found guilty of, and punished for over marketing of off label use and lying to the FDA, and they get fined, and buisness is not halted for a day.
A company is accused of copyright infringement... and must die when charges are brought because they (unprovenly) commited a crime, and cannot perform any buisness actions investigation or trial, making the verdict rather pointless from the persepctive of the buisness who has, by this time lost all thier customers.
So... am I right to say in the US, copyright infrigment is more serious then lying to the FDA and intentionally pushing off label drug use?
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Let me assure you: If a drug company was seen selling illegal narcotics as a significant part of their business (like 90%) they would be shut down just as fast.
Mega wasn't just accused of copyright infringement. They are charged with money laundering and other RICO type crimes. Sort of a little more serious than Jammie Thomas, don't you think?
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Probably because it would have effected all the people that used the bank but wait never mind this shut down effected the world not just the U.S. Damn where is the logic?
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A drug company can be investigated for, charged with, found guilty of, and punished for over marketing of off label use and lying to the FDA, and they get fined, and buisness is not halted for a day.
A company is accused of copyright infringement... and must die when charges are brought because they (unprovenly) commited a crime, and cannot perform any buisness actions investigation or trial, making the verdict rather pointless from the persepctive of the buisness who has, by this time lost all thier customers.
So... am I right to say in the US, copyright infrigment is more serious then lying to the FDA and intentionally pushing off label drug use?
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Yes. Absolutely.
The government should've had some respect for the nature of the business. It should have at least attempted to respect the privacy of the account holders and the integrity and importance of the data entrusted to Megaupload.
It's obvious they were more interested in showing blatant disrespect for the "criminal organization" than in doing the right thing. To them, it was all about the show - and no doubt, the opportunity they now have to surreptitiously "gather intelligence" unrelated to copyright.
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What information are you relying on to make this assertion? I'm unaware of any announcement that no one would be returned access to their files or that individual accounts were accessed. However, it seems reasonable that the US Attorney will access everything in those servers as part of the investigation.
If a safe deposit company was accused of money laundering and acted as a repository for illegal items, do you not think the government might have a peek to see what all is going on?
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But doesn't that result in their loss of sales due to priracy?
People have been boycotting the RIAA for years and I have little doubt that's made a significant impact on thier bottom line. It's also spurred the growth in indie music.
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The problems are, the contracts for distribution that the content owners have precludes this from happening, and they would insist on DRM on all content.
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FTP server
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Lawsuit Time
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Wouldn't it be productive (cheaper and more likely to succeed) if a bunch of the independents that were sharing their own music or films or books got together and shared the cost of creating their own platform for the legitimate use of their content?
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I really wish I was joking here...
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"They are legal and will take care of you just fine. Just ask Bieber and Gaga!"
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Annnd this is why I don't trust the cloud
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I am buying stock in lumber and nail companies
This is exactly the intent the lawsuits and seizures. Looks like they finally got it to work. It might now be time for me to fly the Jolly Roger and start pirating. As I have stated many times, I don't pirate anything. But the IP industry is hitting closer and closer to home and as soon as they effect me personally, I will put the patch over my eye, the hook in my hand and set sail as the worlds greatest pirate.
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Princess Leia: The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers.
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seems to me that the very effects that SOPA/PIPA would have had are happening anyway. if we're not very careful, each country will have it's own net, accessible by no one except it's own people. how can that be good for people, business, innovation, anything?
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/amidoingitrite?
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Let's get to the root of the problem
Guns too. They can only be used to commit crimes. Ban all of them.
Cars: they are used by criminals to escape law enforcement and they kill lots of people every day.
Airplanes are often used by criminals to escape law enforcement of the United States. Sometimes planes are used in terrorist attacks which kill thousands. As a society can we afford to allow such an evil technology to exist?
Alcohol: people who use alcohol often break the law, therefore, alcohol needs to be banned. There is no practical use for alcohol.
Books: information leading to dangerous thought can cause people to do things the state doesn’t like, books need to be banned. Perhaps it’s not books, but printing technology that needs to be banned.
Video game consoles: as we all know, it is illegal to modify them and people do it all the time. Also people waste a lot of time playing games and can often lead the game player to act out violence as depicted in the game. Besides, a game console is simply a euphemism for a computer: same rules apply.
Mobile phones can be used to trip IEDs and this is a real danger. Not to mention the RF radiation which may cause brain cancer. Sorry, mobile phones need to go. Besides, this country obviously does not have the proper infrastructure to deal with the amount of data we consume. Just eliminate the problem.
TV: again, another euphemism for a computer and part of a video game console. Pure evil!
Electric light bulb; A lot of crime happens at night when the sun is down. Having light encourages malfeasance. Besides, using electricity causes unnecessary green house gas and carbon use. No practical use for light bulbs of any technology.
I could go on…
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See this story? This story is the last straw.
Henceforth, you will not see one dime of commerce from myself or anyone in my household. Considering the trash you produce, it's not really like I want to watch or listen to anything made by the American film/recording industries anyways.
I also will make it a point to campaign and vote against any politician who accepts campaign donations from either of you.
Seriously. Fuck you both. Words cannot describe the hatred you've engendered in my mind.
And I doubt I'm alone.
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People seem to care less until it affects them directly...
-TSA . They are keeping us safe, wait why are they feeling up that 80 yr old woman and not that obvious Muslim!
We need to show people the future they are ignoring, the net went black for 1 day and people blamed the sites and ignored the context. Everyone wants to take a pass, and expects everyone else to do the work to keep everything how they want it. If they thought 1 day was unbearable, how would they feel when it was every day.
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I truly hope MAFIAA keeps going this way. Ppl are VERY angry. VERY. I foresee heads rolling =))
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RIAA Cheering?
You know if Anonymous really wanted to do something to stop this BS they'd actually hack the servers of the media companies, all of them linked with labels and studios. Get the real data on sales, layoffs, price-fixing discussions, costs, payments to artists (should be short list)... all over the last 60 years.
Compile it into simple charts with major events highlighted on the charts (ie: Internet open to public, IRC sharing starts, Napster starts, DMCA publicized, DMCA passed, law suits begin, the Pirate Bay debacle, etc...
It would be VERY interesting to see how the events compare with costs and distribution numbers, store layoffs and such.
I'm willing to bet such data is all safely hidden for a reason (contradiction maybe??).
But if Anonymous can easily hack a "security" firm, they should be able to hack into record labels and studio files and gather all the data. Add to that history of file transfer traffic.
Yes, they'd need something like MegaUpload to store all that data, but once there, once sorted (figure maybe 3 months of clever attacks, including bribing people to copy data to USB keys or portable HDD's, then figure 3 - 5 months sorting data and forming charts and points easy to understand for average person), release it all via all media outlets (if you've hacked them leave a rootkit permitting a mass email spam, website broadcast spam/hack, and even if temporary, a broadcast image/audio file to summarize the data) and websites so all the info is out there, instead of a simple source like Wikileaks the US could shutdown.
Do all that, you'd have everyone understanding the fraudulent activity going on. Yeah, you'd freak out cyber experts and Congress would want a knee-jerk reaction but you'd definitely have the Entertainment industry by the shorts and curlies.
No one would believe them, except for the bought/paidfor congress members, but hey, enough people calling and questioning or demanding refusal of support to studios/labels, you might get the truth known and maybe correct this copyright/IP mess (Yeah, they are considered the same by the Entertainment industry - funny that).
Pardon the run-on sentences.
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What we need is a whistle blower IT guy inside the companies to leak the information. Because while they hate all of us net people, they need us. Think of the scene in 'Fight Club' where they corner the police chief and point out how they are all walks of life and all around them.
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PLEASE filter out ALL US traffic. Not only is this a smart business practice for YOU, but our government will NEVER realize what boneheads they are until they see the real effects of their actions.
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No, no, no. This would be a wet dream come true for our government. It was in the foriegn press that has broke most of the damning stories over the last decade. Ashcroft wanted to block access to foreign news sources. This is why Guardian and BBC are top notch agencies still.
MPAA and RIAA were NOT the major funding (as far as lobbyists) but NEWS was - cable, print media. The NY times has tried to block people from quoting their stories in the past. They would all like to get paid for even just the short cut and paste in this article.
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Consider that wikileaks files were distributed via online storage lockers. I don't doubt that is a burn that will take a long time to heal.
I also don't doubt that parts of Washington DO know how out of touch they are with the average person and the Arab spring scared them (since the U.S. had been or was dealing with most of those "dictators"). I think they would prefer to shutter anything that was out of reach.
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"Most companies rarely, if ever, inspect individual files to see if the material they store on behalf of users violates copyrights, unless they are notified by someone claiming infringement."
If we completely ignore the idea of privacy online. And this seems to be what they want. No privacy, everything monitored and monetized if they even think it is infringing. Just look at the Hotfile case where WB demanded and was granted powers well beyond what the law required and they never check the files they took down, they just matched words and also went after files they just did not like.
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Exodus
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Is this why the net is so slow today?
My speed tests are showing higher than what I pay for, yet sites are loading super slow.
I should get 14Mb/s down and 1Mb/s up but I am getting(according to speedtest.net) 14.5 down and 1.1 up.
So why are ALL sites loading so slowly?
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Non infringing uses
Imagine if Jack Valenti and the MPAA had been able to get the US government simply "turn off" all the VCRs in the US because they asserted (under penalty of perjury, of course), that VCRs were being used to infringe.
Seems that it's possible they've made a strategic error...
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Now the US is doing everything they can to destroy the Internet. Can we assume then that means that the US has become the Soviet Union menace that it built the Internet to protect our lines of communication from?
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It was U.S. companies that helped develop file sniffing technology. I guess a new company has to have a government contract to work out and develop a new system or it will be consider illegal.
MegaUpload's big mistake was that they weren't under government contract and went after independent music instead.
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All over now. There's not going to be much pro-US sentiment in the global tech community now: there will be no reaction against moves to forcibly place ICANN's functions in different hands.
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If I'm walking around doing nothing wrong, I don't change my behavior because I see a guy across the street getting busted by a cop.
If I'm walking around doing something illegal, and see a guy across the street getting busted by a cop, that's when I change my behavior.
That's exactly what all these cyberlockers are doing.
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Its pretty clear that the government was willing to make up and misconstrue a bunch of shit of things to make this site look super illegal. Which doesn't make a lot of sense if .com and the company are as bad as everyone is saying. If I catch you raping a child I don't have to make up a bunch of other shit to make you look bad. But if you just had you hand on a kids shoulder and I want to put you away....
"If I'm walking around doing something illegal, and see a guy across the street getting busted by a cop, that's when I change my behavior."
Why? The cops busy, you're fine.
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You do if half the reasons the cops give for busting the other guy are things you reasonably thought were legal.
"Illegal pirate scum! I charge you with whistling while crossing the street and wearing your hat on backwards!"
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Regardless of whether anything illegal happened most organisations will pull operations at the drop of a pin just to cover their ass. Happens in the army, happens in businesses, happens everywhere.
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MU should have known better than to create what could have been a completely legit service had it not deliberately looked the other way when it became clear that pilfered files were heavily populating its servers. Of course, that would have meant a major hit on its bottom line, so clearly that was out of the question.
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The law does not require that, despite what you want everyone to think.
Having to protect their copyright is part of the gift of the monopoly we gave them, and they don't seem to be willing to do even the very least to protect themselves and instead feel entitled to have the world change to service them.
MU had a DMCA system in place, despite not being US based.
I enjoy the nice brushstrokes of everyone who used the site as pirates, I'm sure Dan Bull would proudly tell you to F*CK OFF right about now.
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That one?
Monitoring traffic, and knowing the content of files are 3 different things.
I can look on my website and see most of my traffic comes from Google, does this mean paying attention to that means I am liable for something uploaded onto Google?
Problem 1 - You called them a conspiracy. This sets a specific tone meant to imply they are all bad actors. Please explain why arresting the companies Graphic Artist was VITAL to stopping this circus?
Problem 2 - You portray good business sense, seeing where your traffic comes from, as something sinister.
Problem 3 - The **AA's know of these linking sites and haven't bothered to craft a system to submit the infringing links to the DMCA process that MU was under no obligation to recognize?
The site is popular, the site has multiple uses, the site might have hosted infringing material but (and this is a big but) they did not create those infringing files and when properly noticed they responded by removing the links.
Oh and it is still an allegation, except instead of getting a day in court they entire business was raided worldwide. Property belonging to individuals was taken away while they were raiding a CORPORATION. I sure as hell didn't see any Wall Street types having their homes and possessions seized prior to any actual cases going to trial.
I allege the moon is made of green cheese, this does not make it factual even if I can convince X people (who weren't smart enough to avoid jury duty) that it is true.
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I enjoyed the DMCA notices they sent to a Professor Usher over daring to post files for his class, because he had to be a thief "stealing" from them because it was an MP3 with the word Usher in it.
I suppose someone could build a system to check everything for infringement, but it would cost them more money than they are willing to put towards the effort. If they can force everyone else to spend money to protect them, then its perfectly ok.
I guess I would maybe kinda sorta it is possible, feel something for them had they developed a real project to do the matching, offered an API services could hook into and it was still happening. But their current plan is scream everyone is ripping them off and they are helpless to stop it. They are not helpless victims, they are cheap asses who want their monopoly and everyone else to support it even more.
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The government knew exactly what it was doing. Right now, the DoJ is congratulating itself on how it managed to take out several cyberlocker services with a single action.
Meanwhile, the offices of the MPAA/RIAA are covered in jism from all the spontaneous orgasms their execs have been having since this news broke.
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bummer
now I have all my files on:
http://www.peeje.com/upload
…decent sized allowance, and it gives my users direct-links…which they love....so far, it’s been better than sonic, MU and HF COMBINED!!!
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Bowing down to pressure like this, its exactly what they want, scare tactics at its finest, way to inflate their egos why dont ya, they'll just get worse now, which will take more from us, in order to be heard
To those filesharing sites that keep their current business model, much respect, hope you follow MegaUploads footsteps, a new take on an old business model, minus the infringment, well, until the artist start bypassing the middle man completly, which, lets not kid ourselfs, is the real reason behind all this bullshit (speculation, not based on facts, see what i did there "middle man"), and dont forget the sprinkling of government..... "lets see where this goes, and see if we can use it" stance......censorship for the win
I hope the content providers nightmares are realised, and artists migrate by the droves
I hope the site that steps up and takes MegaUploads mantle, takes all your customers with em
Yours Sincerely
A potential customer, forever lost.
the sea beckons........
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D:
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Right, new bill lads, how can we fix this. How can we have our cake and eat it
Idea man Corrupt politician:???????
Dumb ass Corrupt politician:???????
Janitor:
Idea man Corrupt politician:
Mmmmm....ive heard that turning things off then on, fixes alot these internet vodoo-mi-jigs
Top boss Corrupt politician:
Turn the internet off then on.........that..............makes..................no sense?
Dumb ass Corrupt politician:???????
.......We..........could ...............leave it off????
Top boss Corrupt politician:
..................................BRILLIANT!!!!!!
Janitor
*Facepalm
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Re:
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The sky is falling
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Re: The sky is falling
You don't even have to have actually broken any law, and it will take you over a year to get your domain and stuff back all the while that nice man from ICE will lie to you, your lawyer, the judge, the media and anyone else who asks what happened.
That and some of us don't like sharing with others who can use a whois to find out way more about us than we care to share will the class.
I'm a NYM and I approve this message.
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New Z
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Re: New Z
They are leaving out details of statements and facts to turn them into disturbing things.
Maybe the US promised NZ if they did this Hollywood would stop waiting 2 years before releasing content there...
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another sharing
uploadany.com
free and easy
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