Megaupload Shutdown Means Other Companies Turning Off Useful Services

from the innovation? dept

Mon, Jan 23rd 2012 9:16am — Mike Masnick

On Friday, we noted some of the troubling parts of the Megaupload indictment, and how many perfectly legitimate companies did many of the same things that the US government used to suggest that Mega was a evil criminal conspiracy. On Saturday, the NY Times noted that plenty of legitimate companies were getting a bit nervous because of the language in the indictment:

But Megaupload was not the only such service on the Web. Many companies have crowded into the online storage market recently, most of them aimed at consumers and businesses that want convenient ways to get big data files out of their teeming in-boxes, off their devices and into the cloud — perhaps so that friends or co-workers can download them. They include MediaFire, RapidShare, YouSendIt, Dropbox and Box.net. And there are similar services from Amazon, Google and Microsoft.

All of these market themselves as legitimate ways to store content online. But they are inherently ideal for anyone looking to illegitimately upload and share copyrighted video and audio files. Most companies rarely, if ever, inspect individual files to see if the material they store on behalf of users violates copyrights, unless they are notified by someone claiming infringement.

And... by Sunday, reports started spreading of other companies that provide useful services to people who want to legitimately share files... shutting down or limiting those services. For example, FileSonic -- one of the most popular cyberlockers -- has basically killed itself by no longer allowing sharing, and only allowing personal backup. Another site, Uploaded.to, then blocked all access from the US. A bunch of other services, including FileServe and VideoBB have been killing their affiliate programs (again, which had been a good way for independent musicians to make money).

RIAA supporters are cheering this on -- believing that all of these services really focused on infringing content. But for the many, many artists, companies and individuals who used them legitimately, this is pretty troubling. Useful services are being shut down due to an overreaction on the part of the US government.

Again, this is exactly the kind of collateral damage that many of us were worried about. It's entirely possible (hell, perhaps probable) that the folks behind Megaupload went beyond the confines of the law. And, if that's true, I expect that they will lose in court. But many of us are quite worried about a few things: the fact that the entire site got completely shuttered despite substantial non-infringing uses... and that it's now creating massive chilling effects for legitimate and useful services within the US. Separately, as in the case of Uploaded.to, it's also splintering the internet, by having foreign companies put blocks on US internet users. These kinds of things were exactly what people have been warning about... and yet the US government ignored all those warnings (and probably still doesn't realize what it's kicked off here).

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Filed Under: business models, cyberlockers, features, internet
Companies: fileserve, filesonic, megaupload, upload.to

214 Comments

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Manabi (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 9:25am

It's actually really, really bad
Here's a list someone posted on a message board a short while ago:

MegaUpload - Closed.
Rapidshare - status unknown
FileServe - Closing does not sell premium. File sharing already disabled.
FileJungle - Deleting files. Locked in the U.S..
UploadStation - Locked in the U.S..
FileSonic - the news is arbitrary (under FBI investigation). No longer allows sharing files.
VideoBB - Closed! would disappear soon.
Uploaded - Banned U.S. and the FBI went after the owners who are gone.
FilePost - Deleting all material (will leave executables, pdfs, txts)
Videoz - closed and locked in the countries affiliated with the USA.
4shared - Deleting files with copyright and waits in line at the FBI.
MediaFire - Called to testify in the next 90 days
What I find most disturbing is the sites that are simply banning all US IPs. We're quickly becoming pariahs online, and this will likely continue. After all, we've essentially wiped out a useful sector technology of overnight, and this is making a lot of people (NOT just pirates) very, very angry at us the world over.

I really doubt this is going to end well.
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Greevar (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 9:29am

I guess sopa doesn't need to pass.
It's already happening. The internet is being shut down bit by bit (literally).
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RRice, 23 Jan 2012 @ 9:30am

Smoke and Mirrors
I don't know who's ass the politicians think their blowing the smoke up, but it isn't the people of America. For as long as I can remember, there has been terrorists attacks. For as long as I can remember there was counterfeiting. But none of these or the combination of these have cost us as a country an uncontrollable illegal immigration issue. Have created a debt so bad, that most of our grandchildren will be born poor. Pissed off more nations in this world then half the A list actors and multi billionaire sports stars combined have pissed off fans.

Instead of worrying about a little shop in China making knock of hand bags, or the fact someone may have uploaded a movie or song file, claiming that it cost's us millions a year and countless jobs with absolutely no hard evidence other then their wet dreams or instead of trying to scare the American public like they did in the 50's of the next big terrorist strike, they need to start working on the real matter here at home.

Fix the Health Care, fix the Immigration issue, Fix the corruption in Corporate America and our own govt then start to worry about the little shit.
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Watchit (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 9:30am

Pushing users to illegitimate services
All the US government is doing is pushing internet users to less legitimate services like Isohunt or Piratebay... since they kind of don't care about US copyright laws.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 9:31am

Many airport let in terrorists into the country. Let's shut down one of them for facilitating terrorism. Then the shut down of the other international airports is expected. Booom! Terrorism magically disappeared.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 9:32am

> Separately, as in the case of Uploaded.to, it's also splintering the internet, by having foreign companies put blocks on US internet users.

This splintering of the Internet began much earlier, though usually in the reverse (US companies putting blocks on foreign users). So it is not that troubling of a development, since it does not change the status quo much, as long as it does not become common.

What worries me more is US-hosted companies, which do not have the option of simply banning US users.
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Watchit (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 9:35am

Re: Smoke and Mirrors
That gave me an idea, instead of the Red Scare of the 50's its the great Piracy Scare of 2012!
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 9:37am

Re:
They are blocking people from downloading.
The only people who can download are the people who uploaded it.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 9:38am

AMRDEC SAFE?
And what about the Army's file sharing service, the AMRDEC SAFE? (https://safe.amrdec.army.mil)

According the entrance page for the service: "SAFE is designed to allow AMRDEC employees and those doing business with AMRDEC an alternative way to send files other than email. SAFE allows for much larger files (up to 2GB) to be sent than is normally allowed via email."

Does the US Army have no legitimate use of this service other than infringement? Is the AMRDEC Commander risking time in prison?

AMRDEC - U. S. Army Aviation and Missile Research Development and Engineering Center

SAFE - Safe Access File Exchange
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 9:38am

Re: AMRDEC SAFE?
Lets audit it...unless of course they actually fear people with weapons and the training to use them.
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DCX2, 23 Jan 2012 @ 9:40am

Re: It's actually really, really bad
MediaFire, in my experience, has not been the bastion of infringement one might expect. I personally use it to distribute software tools and configuration files.
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Gwiz (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 9:40am

Most companies rarely, if ever, inspect individual files to see if the material they store on behalf of users violates copyrights, unless they are notified by someone claiming infringement.

The NY Times phrases this like it's something these companies are supposed to be doing instead of responding to DMCA notices like the law actually requires. And they also assume that inspecting the files themselves would somehow magically reveal how the file is being used, whereas an intelligent person knows that the same file could be used for both infringing and non-infinging purposes.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 9:41am

It just goes to show how ignorant Carey Sherman, Chris Dodd and the rest of the rope-a-dopes in big content really are.

Here's what they have really managed to accomplish. Killing off a part of the technology in the US that many people used legitimately and removing legitimate money from creative people who used these sites as a way to supplement their income. Millions of legitimate files and links are now dead.

The pirates are now scattering to places they can not be touched under US jurisdiction or the jurisdiction of US friendly countries. Cutting off US consumers for accessing these services for legitimate purposes while creating a gold rush for links that are now dead to be replaced using file sharing services outside of the reach of the US. And pirating will not drop one bit, nor will they make an extra dime.

Way to go Washington.
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The eejit (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 9:42am

Re: Re: Smoke and Mirrors
No, it's a great Paedophile Pirate Terrorist Heathen Arab Children scare of 2012!
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Hulser (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 9:43am

Un/intended consequences
These kinds of things were exactly what people have been warning about... and yet the US government ignored all those warnings (and probably still doesn't realize what it's kicked off here).

One would think that a normal part of the DOJ analysis on whether to move ahead with a certain legal action would be to 1) consider the possible consequences of that action and 2) after the action is taken, to review what the actual consequences were. What scary is that the DOJ either didn't do Option 1, did do Option 1, but wanted these chilling effects, or hasn't done Option 2. Any combination of those options is frightening.

Can they really be called unintended consequences if you never even bother to consider the consquences in the first place?
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whoisbid, 23 Jan 2012 @ 9:45am

Megaupload down
Do people think it is only a matter of time before file sharing gets more advanced? I saw some P2P stuff that could never be shut down because it does not exist like normal net property
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The Infamous Joe (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 9:45am

Re: Pushing users to illegitimate services
More likely, anyone actually using these services for infringement will just fall back to torrents, or move on to something else. This only actually impacts people who were attempting to use these services in a completely legal manner.

Funny thing, though, is that since Google removed the file type restriction on what you can upload to Google Docs, it behaves an awful lot like a file locker. Maybe it's time for Google to stop being defensive and go on the offensive against Hollywood, DC. (yes, I know that doesn't make sense)
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 9:47am

Useful services are being shut down due to an overreaction on the part of the US government.

So is it an overreaction if the charges are true? What did you expect them to do?
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MarksAngel (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 9:48am

Re: It's actually really, really bad
yeah this is something that isn't going to be resolved by one day of protests we need to let them know we won't stand for their childish behavior. As a parent I can say that only a child would get upset and attack when they can't have things their way and that's exactly what they have done, attacked us.
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Adam J, 23 Jan 2012 @ 9:48am

What's dumb about this is that since the government decided to shutdown Megaupload, a real company, many people that used their service will now go to other services that are not legal or that lean more towards providing infringing content whose operators cannot be dragged into court. What's even more dumb is that Megaupload actually showed the industry how they could provide an accessible, affordable service and still be profitable while NOT raping the artists financially. Now, since Mega has been taken down, no one gets paid and everyone loses. The music companies still will not get paid, independent artists don't get paid and the consumer does not get access to products/services that they like, not to mention the cost to the taxpayers to prosecute the defendants and extradite them here. Everyone loses, RIAA/MPAA/ICE. Might as well group them all together since their efforts/propaganda seem to be very coordinated. Does the RMI (RIAA/MPAA/ICE) even realize that you can rip music directly from youtube using certain software? RIAA/MPAA will not see another dime from me if I can help it. I will not contribute to their war chest in their battle to remain gatekeepers.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 9:49am

The U.S. government didn't ignore these warnings, these were the intended effects.
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Brian B. (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 9:49am

FTP server
Well, it is a good thing that I distribute stored files directly from my FTP server. A little bit more hassle, but it was the way we used to do it in the past.
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Anonymous Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 9:50am

Lawsuit Time
Wouldn't it be productive if a bunch of the independents that were sharing their own music or films or books got together and shared the cost of suing the government for eliminating their legitimate use of Megaupload?
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 9:50am

With all these sites stopping file sharing there is no need for SOPA or PIPA. Hoorah. Oh wait Sopa and PIPA are about controll not sharing..DAMN
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Watchit (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 9:51am

Re: Re: Pushing users to illegitimate services
Yeah that's what I meant.
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Loki, 23 Jan 2012 @ 9:51am

Re: It's actually really, really bad
The content industry may be cheering now, but in their effort to anger/inconvenience "pirates" and "pirate apologists" they have also angered/inconvenience a LOT of musicians, filmmakers, authors, and other content creators who were using/experimenting with these services.

I personally know at least two people who were among the most pro-copyright/pro-industry supporters that have now "joined the revolution" and a few more that are beginning to waver in their support. They may have done some damage, but they won us some converts too.
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ltlw0lf (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 9:53am

Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
I personally use it to distribute software tools and configuration files.

Used MediaFire and Rapidshare personally for passing screen shots of a video game (which allowed such screen shots by adding a screen shot capability to the software.) Only use for such cyberlockers, but it appears that this use is now not available to me any more. Too bad, since this was one of the easiest way to communicate with my teammates vital information quickly, since we could use the internal communications platform to pass links to MediaFire/RapidShare instead of giving out our personal email addresses to pass the information.
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 9:55am

Re:
See but no one has made any charges against the other cyberlockers. And while it is possible to use them to share copyright infringing material, there is a process to have those removed that is respected. The Cartel doesn't want to have to do the work to protect their property and except everyone else to pay to do it, claiming falsely everyone else is profiting off of it.

They are doing this to avoid having the US Government having them arrested in their home country and extradited to face puffed up charges and ruin them financially for the amusement of the US IP cartel.

I expect them to stop listening to the IP Cartel, the GAO showed they are flat out lying about the "damages" they are actually facing. I'd expect the law to not be used at the whim of the people with the largest checkbook.

I'd expect them to pay for better shills... but I can't have everything.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 9:55am

Re:
It also assumes that people are psychics and can magically determine what content constitutes infringement.
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Watchit (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 9:55am

Re:
Whether the charges were true or not, the fact that the site offered a multitude of legitimate services, meaning the one at fault are the infringers not the method with which they infringed. So, the overreaction was shutting down the entire site, kind of like shutting down the US postal service because people can send counterfeited material through it.
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Transbot9, 23 Jan 2012 @ 9:55am

Annnd this is why I don't trust the cloud
Granted, it's not the cloud's fault the DoJ is overstepping, but there's a reason I pay for a private server - makes providing (non-infringing commissioned artwork) files for clients that much simpler.
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demented, 23 Jan 2012 @ 9:56am

Re: Un/intended consequences
Well, UMG commanded the DOJ to attack, and they don't wanna wait!
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bob, 23 Jan 2012 @ 9:58am

Re: It's actually really, really bad
"we've essentially wiped out a useful sector technology of overnight,"

Horse manure. It's an FTP server with a fancier front end. What was wiped out was a way of paying people to seed content that wasn't theirs.

There are plenty of legit options. Amazon and iTunes come to mind. And while Steve Jobs was much wealthier that Kim Dotcom, he was never as tacky, garish or just plain gross.
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Adam J, 23 Jan 2012 @ 9:58am

Re: Re: Re: Smoke and Mirrors
I agree. I couldnt give two shits about infringing files or our government wasting tax dollars to do the bidding of their RIAA/MPAA masters. Do politicians even realize that Social Security is still on its way to be nickeled and dimed out of existence? C'mon, you asshats in DC. Get in there and do work.
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John Doe, 23 Jan 2012 @ 9:59am

I am buying stock in lumber and nail companies
As the internet quickly buys up all the plywood and nails to shutter their doors and windows before the RIAA/MPAA storm, I am buying stock in lumber and nail companies. Their sales are going through the roof.

This is exactly the intent the lawsuits and seizures. Looks like they finally got it to work. It might now be time for me to fly the Jolly Roger and start pirating. As I have stated many times, I don't pirate anything. But the IP industry is hitting closer and closer to home and as soon as they effect me personally, I will put the patch over my eye, the hook in my hand and set sail as the worlds greatest pirate.
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Loki, 23 Jan 2012 @ 10:00am

Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
Actually, I've known it's going to be an entrenched battle for quite some time. One of the interesting things about this whole thing, though, is that during the process of the protests/blackout, I've seen that a lot of people are also just now coming to discover ACTA (and some of them are already planning to try to take action).

People are starting to pay attention. The wiser course of action would be to just let it go, to allow nature its long transformative process. Instead, they are, like other before them, trying to stop the process entirely, thereby simply accelerating it.
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Adam J, 23 Jan 2012 @ 10:00am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Smoke and Mirrors
Sorry, I meant *and our government is wasting tax dollars*.
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Manabi (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 10:01am

Piracy might drop in the short run, but not the long run
And pirating will not drop one bit, nor will they make an extra dime.
It's possible pirating will drop, but only for a short while until the dust settles and all the dedicated pirates move on to the next big thing. (Whether there's another technology, or just finding new, preferred file lockers to use.) I'm sure the copyright maximalists will cheer this brief drop as proof that their actions are making a difference, then either ignore the piracy rate going back up, or use that as an excuse to demand yet more over-bearing and damaging laws/lawsuits/etc. against yet more technology.

I'm starting to think this isn't a war about copyright, it's a war on technology, because that nasty technology is disruptive and makes it too easy to copy stuff.

And yes, I do think this is a war now. The copyright maximalists and the US government have essentially wiped out an entire technology with unproven allegations (MegaUpload's not had their day in court, it's entirely possible they could be found not guilty, in part if not fully). That's definitely an attack, and a rather nasty one at that.
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DCX2, 23 Jan 2012 @ 10:04am

Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
You can't prove that they were seeding content that wasn't theirs, because some people were seeding their own content and making 90 cents on the dollar in advertising.

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120120/15060817494/busta-rhymes-backs-megaupload- says-record-labels-are-real-criminals.shtml
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E. Zachary Knight (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 10:05am

Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
You are saying that none of those other sites are legit? Who are you to judge? Is a site only legit if it is owned and operated by a huge US based corporation? That is Horse Manure.
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Greevar (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 10:05am

Re: Lawsuit Time
Sue the government? No, sue the RIAA and MPAA! Suing the government is like striking a shield. You're not hitting the target, just their defenses. The US government is their meat shield.
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Christopher Weigel (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 10:06am

Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
Uh... do you have any idea at all what these sites actually did?

It was never about "paying people to seed content that wasn't theirs", except in a minority of cases. It was about collaboration and bypassing the gatekeepers.

But I guess that's the point you just let whiz right over your head, huh? The fact that these services have substantial non-infringing uses in collaborative efforts and independent distribution. Courtesy of the chilling effects caused by this action, the free speech rights of many American citizens (along with substantial amounts of their data...) have been reduced or destroyed.

But... apparently, copyright trumps the first amendment. I missed that part in my constitutional scholarship, it seems.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 10:06am

the US has been trying to inflict it's will on the rest of the world via the Internet by forcing other countries to implement new laws that only benefited the US entertainment industries. did it not stand to reason that the more they put restrictions in place that sooner or later there would be repercussions? when the US wanted to block access to certain sites, they thought it was ok. now there are complaints that certain sites are blocking the US and it's not ok. same old thing, dont do what i do, do what i say!
seems to me that the very effects that SOPA/PIPA would have had are happening anyway. if we're not very careful, each country will have it's own net, accessible by no one except it's own people. how can that be good for people, business, innovation, anything?
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Ron, 23 Jan 2012 @ 10:06am

Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
There is troll boy. Where have you been? I look forward to reading your stupidity.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 10:06am

I would like to see a list of how many jobs were lost by legitamte megaupload users. I used mega to distribute the 3d game models I sold. When you purchased one of my models I would send you a link to mega, and a password to open the zip file. Now my major source of income is gone. Thanks U.S. government, now you can pay my bills, I'M going on welfare.
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Adam j, 23 Jan 2012 @ 10:06am

Re: I am buying stock in lumber and nail companies
Ahhh the Jolly Roger back from the good ol days when FTP was the only way to go. Here is a quote from Star Wars that fits the situation quite well, regarding RMI (RIAA/MPAA/ICE) as the empire.
Princess Leia: The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers.
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Greevar (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 10:07am

Re: I am buying stock in lumber and nail companies
Yarr! A pirates life for me it is matey!
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saulgoode (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 10:09am

Re:
"So is it an overreaction if the charges are true? What did you expect them to do?"

How about actually holding a trial and discovering whether the charges are true before shutting down the business? Did the continued operation of these websites threaten the life of anyone? Were the websites somehow going to "take it on the lam"?
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 10:09am

This nonsense won't happen under Ron Paul.
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Greevar (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 10:10am

Re:
You were probably selling other people's work anyway you thief! Why don't you go pay for your entertainment instead of stealing it from hard-working people?

/amidoingitrite?
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Greevar (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 10:10am

Re:
Right...
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Lord Binky, 23 Jan 2012 @ 10:12am

I'm sure the RIAA is just giddy thinking that by removing as many possible options from an artist that they are going to force an artist to return to them. Hopefully it just drives everyone away, especially after their coffers run out.
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demented, 23 Jan 2012 @ 10:13am

Re:
But I bet they don't know what the effects of those effects will be.... it involves the people getting ANGRY. And staying that way.
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vastrightwing, 23 Jan 2012 @ 10:15am

Let's get to the root of the problem
By using the argument that file lockers are only used for infringement, we need to take a much closer look at computers themselves. After all computers must be mostly used for copyright infringement, after all, why buy them if that�s not what you�re using them for?

Guns too. They can only be used to commit crimes. Ban all of them.

Cars: they are used by criminals to escape law enforcement and they kill lots of people every day.

Airplanes are often used by criminals to escape law enforcement of the United States. Sometimes planes are used in terrorist attacks which kill thousands. As a society can we afford to allow such an evil technology to exist?

Alcohol: people who use alcohol often break the law, therefore, alcohol needs to be banned. There is no practical use for alcohol.

Books: information leading to dangerous thought can cause people to do things the state doesn�t like, books need to be banned. Perhaps it�s not books, but printing technology that needs to be banned.

Video game consoles: as we all know, it is illegal to modify them and people do it all the time. Also people waste a lot of time playing games and can often lead the game player to act out violence as depicted in the game. Besides, a game console is simply a euphemism for a computer: same rules apply.

Mobile phones can be used to trip IEDs and this is a real danger. Not to mention the RF radiation which may cause brain cancer. Sorry, mobile phones need to go. Besides, this country obviously does not have the proper infrastructure to deal with the amount of data we consume. Just eliminate the problem.

TV: again, another euphemism for a computer and part of a video game console. Pure evil!

Electric light bulb; A lot of crime happens at night when the sun is down. Having light encourages malfeasance. Besides, using electricity causes unnecessary green house gas and carbon use. No practical use for light bulbs of any technology.

I could go on�
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Loki, 23 Jan 2012 @ 10:16am

Re:
Nobody is actually blocking anybody from anything really. The only people the blocks affect are the people who aren't doing anything wrong. Most of the "bad people" (and a great many of the "good people") have long ago discovered/developed/established.

I'm easily 100 times more technically savvy that the vast majority of corporate thugs and congressional idiots, and there are 10 year olds out there who can do shit I barely grasp. I fail to see how the content industry and the government accomplish anything by pissing these people off.

Who are they going to call to help them? Google? Dan Kaminsky? Sandia Labs? Vert Sif? They've basically told these people their ideas, input and expertise are unnecessary and irrelevant and basically given them the finger.
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Mike42 (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 10:16am

Re:
That would work, if the bulk of US terrorists weren't domestic. (Timothy McVey still #2 terrorist, plenty of fundamentalist cells still in operation)
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Christopher Weigel (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 10:16am

Dear RIAA and MPAA:
See this story? This story is the last straw.
Henceforth, you will not see one dime of commerce from myself or anyone in my household. Considering the trash you produce, it's not really like I want to watch or listen to anything made by the American film/recording industries anyways.
I also will make it a point to campaign and vote against any politician who accepts campaign donations from either of you.
Seriously. Fuck you both. Words cannot describe the hatred you've engendered in my mind.
And I doubt I'm alone.
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demented, 23 Jan 2012 @ 10:20am

Re:
Cosigned.
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Jeff (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 10:23am

Re:
Actually most of the Terrorists live in DC, and wear suits... so they really don't need to travel all that much anymore.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 10:27am

Re: Re: Lawsuit Time
Class action suit from all the (probably millions) people who've lost access to their legit files?
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 10:28am

Re:
If only more people cared, but then Beauty and the Beast was number 2 at the box office.
People seem to care less until it affects them directly...

-TSA . They are keeping us safe, wait why are they feeling up that 80 yr old woman and not that obvious Muslim!

We need to show people the future they are ignoring, the net went black for 1 day and people blamed the sites and ignored the context. Everyone wants to take a pass, and expects everyone else to do the work to keep everything how they want it. If they thought 1 day was unbearable, how would they feel when it was every day.
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AdamBv1 (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 10:28am

Re: Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
I have noticed the same thing lately with regards to ACTA, its been out of the news for months and suddenly people are waking up to it now that SOPA and the MegaUpload shutdown have opened peoples eyes.

Here's to hoping they start taking notice of TPP instead of the one that's pretty much done and over with, maybe we have some chance of influencing the process there if we make enough of an uproar.
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Hephaestus (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 10:30am

Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
You forgot lawyers, I know three that have had personal files just up and vanish. Between lawyers and corporations losing access to key files. This is going to come back and haunt the DOJ.

prior restraint
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 10:32am

Re: Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
But... apparently, copyright trumps the first amendment. I missed that part in my constitutional scholarship, it seems.

See Golan v Holder.

Clear the dicta out of your mind, and concentrate on what the court did.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 10:36am

Re:
You have that wrong - if you go on welfare, *I* will be paying your bills (as a middle-class U.S. taxpayer).
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 10:40am

Re:
"I will not contribute to their war chest in their battle to remain gatekeepers."

But doesn't that result in their loss of sales due to priracy?

People have been boycotting the RIAA for years and I have little doubt that's made a significant impact on thier bottom line. It's also spurred the growth in indie music.
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Robert (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 10:41am

RIAA Cheering?
Of course they are happy, not because of removal of infringing content, but because of removal of competition. No variety (the spice of life) permitted, except that provided by the Corporate Content Industry.

You know if Anonymous really wanted to do something to stop this BS they'd actually hack the servers of the media companies, all of them linked with labels and studios. Get the real data on sales, layoffs, price-fixing discussions, costs, payments to artists (should be short list)... all over the last 60 years.

Compile it into simple charts with major events highlighted on the charts (ie: Internet open to public, IRC sharing starts, Napster starts, DMCA publicized, DMCA passed, law suits begin, the Pirate Bay debacle, etc...

It would be VERY interesting to see how the events compare with costs and distribution numbers, store layoffs and such.

I'm willing to bet such data is all safely hidden for a reason (contradiction maybe??).

But if Anonymous can easily hack a "security" firm, they should be able to hack into record labels and studio files and gather all the data. Add to that history of file transfer traffic.

Yes, they'd need something like MegaUpload to store all that data, but once there, once sorted (figure maybe 3 months of clever attacks, including bribing people to copy data to USB keys or portable HDD's, then figure 3 - 5 months sorting data and forming charts and points easy to understand for average person), release it all via all media outlets (if you've hacked them leave a rootkit permitting a mass email spam, website broadcast spam/hack, and even if temporary, a broadcast image/audio file to summarize the data) and websites so all the info is out there, instead of a simple source like Wikileaks the US could shutdown.

Do all that, you'd have everyone understanding the fraudulent activity going on. Yeah, you'd freak out cyber experts and Congress would want a knee-jerk reaction but you'd definitely have the Entertainment industry by the shorts and curlies.

No one would believe them, except for the bought/paidfor congress members, but hey, enough people calling and questioning or demanding refusal of support to studios/labels, you might get the truth known and maybe correct this copyright/IP mess (Yeah, they are considered the same by the Entertainment industry - funny that).

Pardon the run-on sentences.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 10:42am

Re: Re:
The average public isn't going to know about it. This doesn't make the headlines like "Piracy and Money Laundering" or black out day. They have no idea how this affects their daily life, in some cases, their occupation.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 10:43am

I am waiting for a country like China or Korea to take up control of the internet by offering a new DNS system, accessible to all but people in the US.
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Ninja (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 10:44am

Re:
Hello my friend, good to see yet another friend joining the boycott =)

I truly hope MAFIAA keeps going this way. Ppl are VERY angry. VERY. I foresee heads rolling =))
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demented, 23 Jan 2012 @ 10:47am

Re: Re:
Well, the upside is that if these people pretend there's no problem until it's too late... then they're going to go ape the moment it DOES go too far. Hello, mass riots.
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Ell, 23 Jan 2012 @ 10:47am

Re: Piracy might drop in the short run, but not the long run
Piracy won't stop. People have been exchanging material with friends since floppy disks in the 80's.

As somebody that pirates everything online, I can tell you that the people responsible for most DRM-free content do it professionally, they have been getting paid to do it by the file-hosters that offer incentives for files with large downloads. They tend to switch hosting companies whenever incentives stop being offered, they know what they're doing and do it well. You're realistically looking at a day, maybe two while they cherrypick another hosting company that rewards them for traffic.

This is only going to slow down the people who are not using professional releases, the same people who until recently were still using limewire for mp3's and are still kind of confused with trackers, seeds and leeching.

Fact is, work like this just encourages me that the people behind it are not deserving of my money in the slightest. I might actually buy more music if more artists sold products directly from their website.
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jailbait, 23 Jan 2012 @ 10:47am

As an American, I ask the rest of the world the following favor:

PLEASE filter out ALL US traffic. Not only is this a smart business practice for YOU, but our government will NEVER realize what boneheads they are until they see the real effects of their actions.
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demented, 23 Jan 2012 @ 10:49am

Re: Re: Re:
True. But eventually it will penetrate their thick skulls, when twitter, facebook and the like are shot down or hobbled...
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 10:51am

DOJ had one more reason to go along with this action.

Consider that wikileaks files were distributed via online storage lockers. I don't doubt that is a burn that will take a long time to heal.

I also don't doubt that parts of Washington DO know how out of touch they are with the average person and the Arab spring scared them (since the U.S. had been or was dealing with most of those "dictators"). I think they would prefer to shutter anything that was out of reach.
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 10:55am

Something that is bothering me...
"Most companies rarely, if ever, inspect individual files to see if the material they store on behalf of users violates copyrights, unless they are notified by someone claiming infringement."

If we completely ignore the idea of privacy online. And this seems to be what they want. No privacy, everything monitored and monetized if they even think it is infringing. Just look at the Hotfile case where WB demanded and was granted powers well beyond what the law required and they never check the files they took down, they just matched words and also went after files they just did not like.
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Hephaestus (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 10:55am

Re: AMRDEC SAFE?
I believe you need a CAC card for that, which mean no anonymity. Plus it only allows one download. It is designed for file transfers not bulk sharing.

Go Google it.
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btr1701 (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 10:56am

Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
> And while Steve Jobs was much wealthier that
> Kim Dotcom, he was never as tacky, garish or
> just plain gross.

Since when are any those things illegal?
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 10:56am

Re: Re: Re:
how is that working against the TSA feeling up children and doing random stops on the streets?
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jailbait, 23 Jan 2012 @ 10:56am

Re: Re:
You're right, it does result in their loss of sales due to "piracy". It also results in LESS money going to these companies' investigation departments -- by purchasing from these companies, you are effectively giving them the money to come after you and put you in jail.
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lavi d (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 10:58am

Exodus
And with that, the technology industry begins to follow small manufacturing and the textile industry out of America.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 10:58am

Re: Re:
The other file lockers had one look at the indictment, and realizes that their basic business model (sell access to pirated material, host other stuff as a cover) was flawed and not going to stand up if the feds came knocking on their doors. They took steps to remove the parts of their business that were likely to lead to legal problems.

Look, legal, legit, and paid for hosting for the small amount of data you guys would use in normal terms for normal files is cheap as chips. You can find hosting for $5 a month all over the place.

One example cited was companies or lawyers who had files lost as a result of these shutdowns. Honestly, if you are operating your business or taking legal advice from people who would put valuable files on a server they don't control, on a service they don't control, and on a service that could disappear at any time, then you need to change lawyers or business models. If things have value to them, then apply value to them and take care of them. Pay a small fee for basic hosting, take care of your valuable files and information.

All the whining here in the end is just a cover up for the real truth: People are pissed off that they paid for access to pirated stuff, and suddenly they cannot get it anymore.
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btrussell (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 10:58am

"Separately, as in the case of Uploaded.to, it's also splintering the internet, by having foreign companies put blocks on US internet users."

Is this why the net is so slow today?

My speed tests are showing higher than what I pay for, yet sites are loading super slow.

I should get 14Mb/s down and 1Mb/s up but I am getting(according to speedtest.net) 14.5 down and 1.1 up.

So why are ALL sites loading so slowly?
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Hans, 23 Jan 2012 @ 11:00am

Non infringing uses
Thinking about the non-infringing uses that have been disabled, and the resulting inconvenience to users of the internet made me wonder...

Imagine if Jack Valenti and the MPAA had been able to get the US government simply "turn off" all the VCRs in the US because they asserted (under penalty of perjury, of course), that VCRs were being used to infringe.

Seems that it's possible they've made a strategic error...
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 11:00am

The US created the Internet, and purposely built it to be VERY difficult to destroy. It was designed to survive a nuclear attack from the Soviet Union.

Now the US is doing everything they can to destroy the Internet. Can we assume then that means that the US has become the Soviet Union menace that it built the Internet to protect our lines of communication from?
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 11:01am

Re: RIAA Cheering?
Even the **AA's are smart enough, after the Sony Hacks, to make sure their servers with the important details are not net accessible. Will take Anons with skills better than hacking.

What we need is a whistle blower IT guy inside the companies to leak the information. Because while they hate all of us net people, they need us. Think of the scene in 'Fight Club' where they corner the police chief and point out how they are all walks of life and all around them.
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Hephaestus (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 11:07am

Re:
For a while now people have been saying, there should be a one stop shop for all content, with a low monthly fee. MegaUpload proves that this is a workable business model. Instead of needing to search on google or get links from friends, they would need a central listing of the files available.

The problems are, the contracts for distribution that the content owners have precludes this from happening, and they would insist on DRM on all content.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 11:07am

Re:
No no no, it's much easier to confiscate water bottles and toothpaste.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 11:09am

Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
Yes, and Google is database lookup with a fancier front end, iTunes is a shopping cart with a fancier front end, Amazon is a storefront with a fancier front end, Windows is a command line with a fancier front end, all video games are Pong with a a fancier front end, and you are an idiot.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 11:15am

Re:
"PLEASE filter out ALL US traffic. Not only is this a smart business practice for YOU, but our government will NEVER realize what boneheads they are until they see the real effects of their actions."

No, no, no. This would be a wet dream come true for our government. It was in the foriegn press that has broke most of the damning stories over the last decade. Ashcroft wanted to block access to foreign news sources. This is why Guardian and BBC are top notch agencies still.

MPAA and RIAA were NOT the major funding (as far as lobbyists) but NEWS was - cable, print media. The NY times has tried to block people from quoting their stories in the past. They would all like to get paid for even just the short cut and paste in this article.
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Manabi (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 11:15am

Re: Re: Piracy might drop in the short run, but not the long run
Piracy won't stop. People have been exchanging material with friends since floppy disks in the 80's.
It's been going on much, much longer than that. At the very least a couple of centuries, probably longer. Back in August Mike posted about how France kept upping the penalties when people kept infringing on (exclusive) fabric patterns. Eventually they went all the way to the death penalty and killed some 16,000 people. It didn't stop the copying then either.

But you're absolutely correct, this won't cause much of a delay, if any. The only reason I think it may cause a noticeable drop briefly is because it may take a few weeks for all of the file locker companies to settle down on what they're going to do. Until then, it'll be a bit chaotic and can't really settle down, so pirating may drop due to that. But it will go back up again.
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Transbot9, 23 Jan 2012 @ 11:20am

Re:
Too bad online privacy is and always has been an optical illusion.
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demented, 23 Jan 2012 @ 11:22am

Re:
Indeed. I think the thing is, they didn't expect the commonfolk to get onto it and use it for their own ends. Nor did they expect the commonfolk to become tech-savvy enough to build their own, if need be.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 11:22am

Re:
I don't recall moving to China. Does anyone else?

It was U.S. companies that helped develop file sniffing technology. I guess a new company has to have a government contract to work out and develop a new system or it will be consider illegal.

MegaUpload's big mistake was that they weren't under government contract and went after independent music instead.
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VioceOfReason, 23 Jan 2012 @ 11:23am

Re: Un/intended consequences
Not likely since the average child doesn't begin to understand the concept of consequences until around 4 years old...

Keep in mind that you're talking about law enforcement not actual full formed human beings. There's a reason why the military catch-all for anyone enlisted with no value or skills becomes an M.P.

The general rule to follow is anyone in law enforcement is a subhuman creature. I find that most are basically the equivalent to maggots or dung beetles.
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demented, 23 Jan 2012 @ 11:24am

Re: Exodus
It's for jobs! It's for the children! It's for the soldiers! It's for.. uhh... the kittens! Do not question us!
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demented, 23 Jan 2012 @ 11:25am

Re:
And yet, ironically, they are inspiring the very real possibility of an American Spring by trying to prevent one.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 11:25am

Most people thought Anonymous actions were too harsh. I'm beginning to think they weren't strong enough to make an impact.
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demented, 23 Jan 2012 @ 11:25am

Re:
When did the government ever advocate privacy?
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 11:32am

Re: Re:
So, the overreaction was shutting down the entire site, kind of like shutting down the US postal service because people can send counterfeited material through it.

No it isn't. First of all, the USPS, FedEx, UPS, etc all have dedicate functions to assure that their legitimate businesses are not used for the furtherance of crime. What do you think would happen to a delivery service that took absurdly (and deliberately) ineffective measures to prevent people from shipping drugs around world? They'd be seized and the principals would be jailed. And that a portion of their business was from Amazon or other legitimate merchants would not save them.
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nevermore669, 23 Jan 2012 @ 11:33am

Re:
So is it an overreaction if the charges are true? What did you expect them to do?

Yes. Absolutely.

The government should've had some respect for the nature of the business. It should have at least attempted to respect the privacy of the account holders and the integrity and importance of the data entrusted to Megaupload.

It's obvious they were more interested in showing blatant disrespect for the "criminal organization" than in doing the right thing. To them, it was all about the show - and no doubt, the opportunity they now have to surreptitiously "gather intelligence" unrelated to copyright.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 11:34am

Re: Re:
No but the money and (alleged) criminals would. Sorry you have a problem with US seizure statutes, but I'm afraid you're a bit late for a petition.
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Andrew F (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 11:34am

Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
There's a lot of value in FTP servers with fancier front ends. I was trying to figure out how my less-than-tech-savvy friends could share vacation photos with each other. Easiest solution was to ask everyone to upload everything to MediaFire and pass around links.
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Chairman Miao, 23 Jan 2012 @ 11:37am

One piece of collateral damage: The world's techies were basically content to let the USA shelter ICANN, trusting in the USA's tradition of free speech, and thus reasoning that the US was the best place to have Internet freedom defended.

All over now. There's not going to be much pro-US sentiment in the global tech community now: there will be no reaction against moves to forcibly place ICANN's functions in different hands.
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Samuel Abram (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 11:38am

Re: It's actually really, really bad
This is chilling indeed. I use mediafire for legitimate purposes and use DropBox to share files with people working on my album (i.e. my latest one, The Aftermath). If I get shut off from those services by an ill-advised government (i.e. my own), I'm going to go ballistic.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 11:40am

Re: Re:
The government should've had some respect for the nature of the business. It should have at least attempted to respect the privacy of the account holders and the integrity and importance of the data entrusted to Megaupload.

What information are you relying on to make this assertion? I'm unaware of any announcement that no one would be returned access to their files or that individual accounts were accessed. However, it seems reasonable that the US Attorney will access everything in those servers as part of the investigation.

If a safe deposit company was accused of money laundering and acted as a repository for illegal items, do you not think the government might have a peek to see what all is going on?
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 11:41am

Re: Re: Re:
sell access to pirated content on services that offer free uploading and downloading.
That seems like a loosing business plan, yet they are making lots of money.

The legal problems coming at them included having paid their hosting providers for servers and bandwidth. This is money laundering according to the Government.

They shut down cyberlockers, they didn't get TPB offline. If people want content they will always find a way.

All of your lip flapping is to try and counter bob being high as a kite and posting... your not doing much better.

2/10 - You almost make it sound reasonable, but your still out of your mind.
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demented, 23 Jan 2012 @ 11:45am

Re:
And the government will keep blaming pirates for everything until it's too late and our reputation has been thoroughly destroyed.
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 11:46am

Re: Re:
While it is, if a cyberlocker said they were doing the impossible job of hand reviewing every uploaded file before letting it be available no one would use the site. I am troubled that the Times seems to think that is the answer to the problem and an issue.
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AzureSky (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 11:46am

Re: Smoke and Mirrors
actually they say its costing them BILLIONS not millions, I once was reading an artical where they actually had the balls to claim their losses where so high theres not enough money in this world to cover the losses...let along the profits despite "losses"

would like to know how you make/loose more money then is in existence world wide....
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 11:47am

Re: Re:
only in the papers that founded it, they've been working at whittling away at it for a very long time on behalf of whoever was willing to pay them enough.
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demented, 23 Jan 2012 @ 11:47am

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Ah, but that only affects a few people a small amount of the time. The Internet is far more pervasive and continuously used...
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 11:50am

Re:
According to the MPAA Accounting Dept., not only were no jobs lost because of this but we also still need to fire more people because we've not yet recouped the advance from our first contract...
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Colin, 23 Jan 2012 @ 11:54am

Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
And while Steve Jobs was much wealthier that Kim Dotcom, he was never as tacky, garish or just plain gross.

That's why I like you: you just stick to the pertinent facts. No straw men here.
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bob, 23 Jan 2012 @ 12:04pm

Re: Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
I don't need to prove it. The US Government has access to the log files and we'll learn just how many of the successful seeders were just some Grandma sharing slideshows of their grandkids.

And if you believe that MegaUpload was really paying 90 cents on the dollar, you're a real sucker. You don't pay for those jets and that mansion by letting the pirate serfs get 90%.
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bob, 23 Jan 2012 @ 12:07pm

Re: Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
Well, there's no doubt that MegaUpload was a huge corporation.

It's wonderful how they tricked all of the rabble rousers around here to support their mansions and megarich behavior.

That's a trick worth toasting with a Robin Leach-grade glass of Champagne.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 12:08pm

Re: Re: Re:
See something has always bothered me about this... and I think I found out what it is.

A drug company can be investigated for, charged with, found guilty of, and punished for over marketing of off label use and lying to the FDA, and they get fined, and buisness is not halted for a day.

A company is accused of copyright infringement... and must die when charges are brought because they (unprovenly) commited a crime, and cannot perform any buisness actions investigation or trial, making the verdict rather pointless from the persepctive of the buisness who has, by this time lost all thier customers.

So... am I right to say in the US, copyright infrigment is more serious then lying to the FDA and intentionally pushing off label drug use?
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 12:09pm

Re: Re: Re:
See something has always bothered me about this... and I think I found out what it is.

A drug company can be investigated for, charged with, found guilty of, and punished for over marketing of off label use and lying to the FDA, and they get fined, and buisness is not halted for a day.

A company is accused of copyright infringement... and must die when charges are brought because they (unprovenly) commited a crime, and cannot perform any buisness actions investigation or trial, making the verdict rather pointless from the persepctive of the buisness who has, by this time lost all thier customers.

So... am I right to say in the US, copyright infrigment is more serious then lying to the FDA and intentionally pushing off label drug use?
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 12:16pm

Re: Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
I've sent so many DMCA notices to both of those sites I couldn't even begin to count them.

Go to any music message board or blog today: all the kids that rip off their music instead of paying for it are scared to death of losing MediaFire and RapidShare.
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Vincent Giannell, 23 Jan 2012 @ 12:17pm

We gotta get all those companies to change their minds and get their sites back online and fast.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 12:21pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
I laughed at that too. What a total joke.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 12:24pm

Re: Re: Pushing users to illegitimate services
Maybe it's time for Google to stop being defensive and go on the offensive against Hollywood, DC.

You mean spend even more money secretly funding the pro-piracy astroturfers?
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 12:28pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
sell access to pirated content on services that offer free uploading and downloading. That seems like a loosing business plan, yet they are making lots of money.

Sorry, you left out key components of the discussion. The upload isn't just free, it is in fact paid for. The more people buy memberships as a result of your upload, the more money the uploader makes. It's called motivation.

Downloads are also not free. They are limited, slow, and require great patience to get anything larger than a word document or single image file. The way to get around those limits? Buy a download pass!

The legal problems coming at them included having paid their hosting providers for servers and bandwidth. This is money laundering according to the Government.

The money laundering involves taking the money obtained in the illegal transaction (nowingly offering access to pirated material), and they using that money to further that and other businesses. You need to learn and understand what money laundering means.

It all comes back to the same thing: selling access to pirated material, and using that money to enrich themselves and their other businesses.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 12:30pm

Re: Re: Piracy might drop in the short run, but not the long run
As somebody that pirates everything online...
I might actually buy more music

No you wouldn't. You're a liar and a slimeball, and you and everyone else knows it.

Now go die in a fire.
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John Fenderson (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 12:32pm

Re: Re: Re:
"First of all, the USPS, FedEx, UPS, etc all have dedicate functions to assure that their legitimate businesses are not used for the furtherance of crime."

Yeah, you know what those dedicated function are? Assisting law enforcement when there's a court order.

Do you know what none of them do? Routinely examine the contents of the packages to detect copyright violations (or drugs, etc., except for maybe letting a dog sniff the outsides.)

Why should cyberlockers be treated any differently?
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 12:32pm

Re: Re: Re:
Perfectly stated. +1
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 12:33pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
"I've sent so many DMCA notices to both of those sites I couldn't even begin to count them."

Well, we'll just totally believe the Anonymous Coward who isn't offering any evidence to support his claims that he's sent anything at all.

Here, let me try: "I've received so many FALSE DMCA notices, that I can't even begin to count them."

"I'm a really famous actor, I guarantee all of you on this site have heard of me. Of course, I won't reveal who I am, you'll just have to take my word for it."

Lol. Oh you ACs. You're so cute when you resort to making things up, which given who you support is just another usual day at the office for the likes of you.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 12:36pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
First of all, they routinely xray packages.

And what is the penalty if someone is caught misusing FedEx, etc for criminal purposes? Jail.

What's the penalty for both the uploader and the website if they violate the DMCA on a cyberlocker? Nothing.

Sounds real fair...
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 12:42pm

I guess I would be whining as well if I have to now pay for something from a legit source that before I could get for free from an illegit source.

MU should have known better than to create what could have been a completely legit service had it not deliberately looked the other way when it became clear that pilfered files were heavily populating its servers. Of course, that would have meant a major hit on its bottom line, so clearly that was out of the question.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 12:43pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
"Sounds real fair..."

And we all know, that life just ALWAYS is fair. /s

Is it fair that downloading an album and stealing the same album both carry completely opposite fines?

Is it fair that file lockers, from which indie bands could freely share their music now have had that avenue closed to them due to the actions of middlemen and people supposedly fighting for "the artists"?

Is it fair that the MPAA/RIAA can use propaganda and cut people out of technical related discussions, then turn around and cry foul when it's done to them (as if they aren't guilty of it themselves)?

Your views on fair are very hypocritical. When it's in your best interest, that's life. When it's against your interest, no fair.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 12:56pm

I for one am no longer purchasing any more movies or video games from the entertainment industry this is some serious bullshit.
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DCX2, 23 Jan 2012 @ 12:57pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
At least one person probably made 90%, but the exact percentages are irrelevant; the point is that at least some folks are uploading their own content and getting revenue from their own content, in direct contradiction to your fallacious accusation above.

You seem to think that MegaUpload, and related sites, only succeed because of copyright infringement. When anyone else points out that e.g. MediaFire and other related sites have perfectly legitimate uses, you then accuse those people of being "rabble rousers" who "support mansions and megarich behavior".

Merely pointing out this lame straw man fallacy should be more than sufficient for a rebuttal.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 12:57pm

Re: Re: Re: Piracy might drop in the short run, but not the long run
Tons of people have boycotted the RIAA, MPAA etc.. and tons more will.
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mytakeonit, 23 Jan 2012 @ 1:05pm

Re: Response
Why can't you create a webpage and distribute your games that way?
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 1:08pm

Re:
eh?

If I'm walking around doing nothing wrong, I don't change my behavior because I see a guy across the street getting busted by a cop.

If I'm walking around doing something illegal, and see a guy across the street getting busted by a cop, that's when I change my behavior.

That's exactly what all these cyberlockers are doing.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 1:12pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
Denial: it's all you have left, isn't it?

It feels awesome to know you can't accept what I said as truth. Because it is.
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Troglodytarum_venator (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 1:16pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
Actually, if the EU stays out of ACTA then the BRIC countries are unlikely to join and the whole thing could fold.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 1:22pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Is it fair that downloading an album and stealing the same album both carry completely opposite fines?

??? What? No. That was my point.

One you get a fine, the other you go to jail.

Is it fair that file lockers, from which indie bands could freely share their music now have had that avenue closed to them due to the actions of middlemen and people supposedly fighting for "the artists"?

Only slimeballs refuse to face the consequences of their actions: If pirates hadn't misused filelockers, these actions wouldn't have happened. If filelockers want to provide a service, they should figure out a way to do it so that if someone misuses it, they can be punished.

That's how public storage works, and there's no reason it shouldn't be the same in cyberspace.

Is it fair that the MPAA/RIAA can use propaganda and cut people out of technical related discussions, then turn around and cry foul when it's done to them (as if they aren't guilty of it themselves)?

Feel free to share all the alternatives the tech industry offered.

What a load.

The tech industry decided to fight the bill with lies and never had any intention of trying to come to a compromised solution.

Your views on fair are very hypocritical. When it's in your best interest, that's life. When it's against your interest, no fair.

You're completely full of shit and I've had better debates with 3rd graders.

Have a great day.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 1:23pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
No, I'd accept what you said as truth if there was evidence presented it was true. But since you haven't presented anything of the kind and we don't know who you are, sorry to say, we can't just believe what you say.

Like I said, I'm actually a famous actor and you'll just have to take my word for it.

Likewise, it feels awesome to know that you can't accept that not everyone believes what you say when you say it because you know that what you say is actually false. Because it is.

See how I can turn what you say around?

Evidence would shut me up. Present it. Or quit lying/making stuff up. Also, I'll present evidence showing I am a famous actor when you do the same that you are someone who routinely sends DMCA notices. But let's be clear, are these legit DMCA notices on IP of yours (that you specifically created, not that you bought or "stole", aka had someone sign away the rights to in order to get a short term "gain" of some kind for themselves)? Or are they DMCA notices you send on behalf of the studios/labels and you're just sending them out of some sense of moral outrage because you hate everything that even remotely undermines the role of the middleman in this day and age?

Cause I can send DMCA notices too in that case.
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Planespotter (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 1:24pm

Re: It's actually really, really bad
Control, Control, Control... looks like the MPAA/RIAA etc al are getting what they want, with all the cyberlockers shutting their doors they have managed to win without SOPA/PIPA and also cut back on where emerging artists can connect with their fans...

If you cannot control all the gates, close the ones you can't.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 1:26pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
LOL

I don't care what you think.

And if I wanted to not be anonymous anymore, I wouldn't be posting as an AC, now would I?

Have a swell day, Sparky.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 1:38pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
Prove who you are or STFU.
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Rekrul, 23 Jan 2012 @ 1:43pm

These kinds of things were exactly what people have been warning about... and yet the US government ignored all those warnings (and probably still doesn't realize what it's kicked off here).

The government knew exactly what it was doing. Right now, the DoJ is congratulating itself on how it managed to take out several cyberlocker services with a single action.

Meanwhile, the offices of the MPAA/RIAA are covered in jism from all the spontaneous orgasms their execs have been having since this news broke.
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Anonymous Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 1:44pm

Re: Re: Lawsuit Time
Though we all know the &AA's were behind this, I have some doubt as to whether they are identified in the complaint. Proving they are behind it would be difficult, to say the least. Hence, sue the Justice department for restraint of trade.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 1:51pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
The drug company is assumed to be legit. Their business model, producing legal drugs for sale by prescription or over the counter, is generally a legal and legit business. It is what separates them from a street corner crack dealer or the Indian fake Viagra labs.

Let me assure you: If a drug company was seen selling illegal narcotics as a significant part of their business (like 90%) they would be shut down just as fast.

Mega wasn't just accused of copyright infringement. They are charged with money laundering and other RICO type crimes. Sort of a little more serious than Jammie Thomas, don't you think?
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 1:55pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
So we're back to my original point. You're pretty much full of it and nothing you say can be seen as being even remotely true.

Thank you, have a swell day, Sweetie.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 2:01pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
"Feel free to share all the alternatives the tech industry offered.

What a load.

The tech industry decided to fight the bill with lies and never had any intention of trying to come to a compromised solution."

The tech industry was denied entry into debates and shouted down at every turn or dismissed outright. Now you want them to "come to the table" when you've been put in your place by them and the people. They wanted to meet with you and discuss alternatives, you didn't let them.

Now you want their input? Lol. That's just a line being used to not come off as the b*stards you are. It's just an attempt to quell the outrage of the public which you brought on yourselves.

The tech industry fought the bills by bringing them to light and informing the public, something you didn't see fit to do. They never lied about anything, unlike you. They pointed out the flaws over and over and as I said, they were dismissed outright or blatantly lied about BY YOUR KIND.

And I sincerely doubt you've had any kind of "better" debate with anyone. If your idea of "debate" is "I'm right, you're all wrong" (which it seems to be), then no, that's not a better debate. That's just you refusing to actually debate anything.

The one full of shit here would be you. Mike's other articles point out all the hypocrisy by the studios/labels. And link to other articles where the tech industry was deliberately excluded from debating or voicing their thoughts on anything. Not once did your side want to allow any input on these bills by anyone, the tide turned and now you're trying to salvage what you can but it's too late. The people know and the people won't stand for anything of the sort to pass. Including some of the people who it's "for".

Face it, you lost. Find a towel to cry in. When you're ready to have a real debate, we'll be around. Til then, good day.
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 2:03pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
See this is why I know your a shill.
You've never used the service at all and are merely parroting the same message bob was, albeit more coherently.
You seem to be assuming every file on MU was infringing in some way, another clear sign of shillhood.

Disney pirated many stories out of the public domain and used their power and influence to make sure that they were the only ones to profit from them. So... Disney is like a cyberlocker?

Uploads on cyberlockers are free, they did however offer better terms for their service if you paid a fee. The fee was not mandatory and the limits not so great if you chose not to use the pay model. This is what is known as freemium.

The money laundering comes from some emails alleged to be from 2006, that they really haven't shed any light upon as to how they obtained these communications. They seem to have a stool pigeon providing them information in return for not being thrown in jail for 22 bajillion years for the horrible crime of possible copyright infringement facilitation. Under this new doctrine we should have every type of media manufacturer in court paying up money, as any storage medium can be used to facilitate copyright infringement.

2/10 - Still not ready for prime time, if you can't beat me your no match for the regulars.
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 2:06pm

Re: Re:
In their defense, almost everything around us was made in China, so maybe this was just part of their plan to blanket the country in the name before claiming it as their own.
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 2:07pm

Re: Re:
A little late on that one....
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The Infamous Joe (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 2:09pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
Sounds to me like you just called out on your lie. The day people with your point of view on these issues (note, I didn't say it was right or wrong) can be honest and upfront about what skin they have in the game, is the day we can begin to find middle ground in the issue, if a thing even exists anymore, after years of extremes and misleading information.

Until such a time, expect to be called out on every single statement. Expect to have to give proof. Otherwise, you're just wasting your time that could be better spent with your friends and family.
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Chargone (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 2:09pm

Re: Re: Smoke and Mirrors
... as failures go, achieving that would be pretty epic. i'm not sure what they were hoping to achieve with that statement... if they were believed those who were supposedly in control of the thing should have been fired at minimum for abject incompitency and the entire industry folded up to cover as much of the debt they would have had to have been in as possible...

as we can see, that didn't happen. Someone's lieing and/or not doing their job.
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 2:11pm

Re:
And it was their job to find the content that was possibly infringing why?
The law does not require that, despite what you want everyone to think.
Having to protect their copyright is part of the gift of the monopoly we gave them, and they don't seem to be willing to do even the very least to protect themselves and instead feel entitled to have the world change to service them.
MU had a DMCA system in place, despite not being US based.

I enjoy the nice brushstrokes of everyone who used the site as pirates, I'm sure Dan Bull would proudly tell you to F*CK OFF right about now.
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Chargone (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 2:12pm

Re: Re:
i think... you missed the point.

or not, i sometimes answer things like that despite getting it.

you'll certainly confuse others as to what the point IS though.
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The Infamous Joe (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 2:13pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
Sounds to me like you just called out on your lie. The day people with your point of view on these issues (note, I didn't say it was right or wrong) can be honest and upfront about what skin they have in the game, is the day we can begin to find middle ground in the issue, if a thing even exists anymore, after years of extremes and misleading information.

Until such a time, expect to be called out on every single statement. Expect to have to give proof. Otherwise, you're just wasting your time that could be better spent with your friends and family.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 2:15pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
"I've sent so many DMCA notices to both of those sites I couldn't even begin to count them."

Which is why there should be stiff penalties for copyfraud.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 2:17pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
"I don't need to prove it."

Ah, you work for the RIAA and/or MPAA!
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The eejit (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 2:21pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
Hypocrite.
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The eejit (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 2:25pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
Tey telling that to Rupert Murdoch. Or P.T. Barnum. Or the Koch Brothers: all of whom actually committed criminal acts, or had the organisations they owned commit them on massive scales.

So your pot is calling. It wants to be pink again.
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The eejit (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 2:32pm

Re: Re:
Just inject some handwavium into people's heads, and everyone will know!
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The eejit (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 2:37pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Disney are actual cultural thieves: they conhstantly pillaged the public domain for stories to turn into film, which they then "Vaulted" after 3 years, to be released in "special anniversary editions".

Their last three original properties were Pirates of the Caribbean, Ratatouille and Finding Nemo, and two of them weren't actually done by Disney themselves.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 2:37pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
From the WSJ:

"The Air Courier Conference of America, an industry trade group with a board of directors that includes UPS and FedEx executives, fired back. James A. Rogers, chairman of the group's international committee, sent a letter to Customs that said any "assertion that the increased drug seizures are evidence that the express industry is now the preferred conduit for drug traffickers is a huge jump to a very wrong conclusion." The drug-seizure increase, he said, was the result of "copious efforts" by carriers to work with law enforcement. "At the very least, we believe a public apology is in order," Mr. Rogers demanded in the letter.

He didn't get one. Instead, top Justice Department officials suggested to Attorney General Reno in early 1998 that she convene a working group from officials at the DEA, the FBI, the Postal Inspection Service, FedEx, UPS, Airborne, DHL, the Emery Worldwide Airlines unit of CNF Inc. and state and federal prosecutors to discuss a coordinated, nationwide approach to interdicting drug movements. A key element promoted by some of the law-enforcement officials, according to a top postal-inspection official, was to give law enforcement access to the private databases of the big shippers.

That was a particularly thorny proposition for FedEx and UPS, which have spent fortunes to build the information systems needed to orchestrate their clockwork deliveries. Each package moving through their systems -- about 18 million a day combined -- is hit by electronic scanners at least a half-dozen times during even a short journey within the U.S. As a result, at any instant, the companies' computers can zero in on the exact locations of items in transit and the history of other shipments by the same sender or to the same recipient.

The private-sector delivery companies -- but not the Postal Service -- are required to supply Customs agents with an electronic record of delivery-manifest information on all international shipments destined for the U.S. Customs officials then use their own computers to check for clues of drug smuggling hidden in the addresses, descriptions of contents and other data about each package. A box speeding via FedEx, for example, toward the same address as a previous package nabbed by a drug-sniffing dog usually will be flagged by the computer. And agents may inspect any international package on a private carrier without a search warrant.

But the private carriers aren't required to provide the same data to law-enforcement agencies about packages being shipped within the U.S., and all foreign-bound Postal Service shipments are exempt from scrutiny without a warrant. Postal officials say the law is clear: Mail is just as protected from warrantless searches as someone's house. "There is a delicate balance between defending the borders and protecting the privacy rights of our citizens," says Kenneth Newman, deputy chief in the Postal Inspection Service's criminal-investigations unit. The Postal Service currently is fighting draft federal legislation that it claims would allow Customs to freely search mail leaving the U.S.

In the meetings of the Justice Department task force last year and early this year, which weren't attended by Ms. Reno, officials from the express-delivery companies insisted that they must walk a similarly fine line, even though the constitutional protections of the mail don't apply to them, according to people who attended the sessions."
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The eejit (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 2:44pm

Re: Re: Response
Hosting costs associated with ahving the game available for download from your website?
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 2:52pm

Re: Re: Re: Pushing users to illegitimate services
how can I have s'more if i haven't had oen yet?
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 2:55pm

Re: Re: Piracy might drop in the short run, but not the long run
Thats a cute fantasy world you have there.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 2:56pm

Re: Re:
While at this stage an allegation in the indictment, para. 12, for example, might be useful for you to look at.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 2:58pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
"Maybe we should ask the nerds."
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 3:05pm

Re: Re:
They probably don't think what they are doing is illegal but also don't want to have to prove it in court. They will let mega do the grunt work and then turn their service back on once this gets straightened out.

Its pretty clear that the government was willing to make up and misconstrue a bunch of shit of things to make this site look super illegal. Which doesn't make a lot of sense if .com and the company are as bad as everyone is saying. If I catch you raping a child I don't have to make up a bunch of other shit to make you look bad. But if you just had you hand on a kids shoulder and I want to put you away....

"If I'm walking around doing something illegal, and see a guy across the street getting busted by a cop, that's when I change my behavior."

Why? The cops busy, you're fine.
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mischab1, 23 Jan 2012 @ 3:07pm

Re: Re:
If I'm walking around doing nothing wrong, I don't change my behavior because I see a guy across the street getting busted by a cop.

You do if half the reasons the cops give for busting the other guy are things you reasonably thought were legal.

"Illegal pirate scum! I charge you with whistling while crossing the street and wearing your hat on backwards!"
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Suja (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 3:19pm

Re:
you are definitely not alone, infact i doubt there is one with as much hatred as i do for these filth and the copyright/IP disease they use to get their way
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Greevar (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 3:22pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
I disagree. I don't think anyone is above backing up their statements with facts and evidence.
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RD, 23 Jan 2012 @ 3:32pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
"Or are they DMCA notices you send on behalf of the studios/labels and you're just sending them out of some sense of moral outrage because you hate everything that even remotely undermines the role of the middleman in this day and age?

Cause I can send DMCA notices too in that case."

Uh...yeah...no, actually, you cant. You cant just take it upon yourself to send copyright infringement claims to someone, unless you are ACTUALLY a representative (assigned or because you own them) of the copyright holder acting with their consent. Not that there are ANY penalties for it, or for filing false or grossly incorrect DMCA complaints, as you can apparently do so with impunity and never have to answer for when you are wrong, or even illegally claiming to be the copyright holder, but it doesnt mean you'd be RIGHT in doing so.
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Richard (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 3:37pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
The case was bad - but is not relevant here - you just brought up a red herring.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 3:40pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
"I don't need to prove it."

Yes, because people are guilty until proven innocent in your world.
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Richard (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 3:41pm

Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
If Dropbox is affected all hell will break loose. Just about everyone I know now uses Dropbox - and entirely for legitimate purposes.

Problem is - if the sharers of copyrighted content migrate to dropbox - given that the other services have been lost - it will come into the cross hairs.
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The Infamous Joe (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 4:00pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
That's fair. That being said, there are some sources I have come to trust, and don't feel the need to see a link with every statement. I have no doors that sources could be provided, were I to ask.
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 4:02pm

Re: Re: Re:
"The Mega Conspiracy closely monitors the traffic from linking sites to the MegaSites and services. The Conspiracy is aware that linking sites generate a very high percentage of the millions of visits to its websites and services each week and provide the Conspiracy directfinancial benefits through advertising revenue and opportunities for new premium subscriptions"

That one?
Monitoring traffic, and knowing the content of files are 3 different things.
I can look on my website and see most of my traffic comes from Google, does this mean paying attention to that means I am liable for something uploaded onto Google?

Problem 1 - You called them a conspiracy. This sets a specific tone meant to imply they are all bad actors. Please explain why arresting the companies Graphic Artist was VITAL to stopping this circus?

Problem 2 - You portray good business sense, seeing where your traffic comes from, as something sinister.

Problem 3 - The **AA's know of these linking sites and haven't bothered to craft a system to submit the infringing links to the DMCA process that MU was under no obligation to recognize?

The site is popular, the site has multiple uses, the site might have hosted infringing material but (and this is a big but) they did not create those infringing files and when properly noticed they responded by removing the links.

Oh and it is still an allegation, except instead of getting a day in court they entire business was raided worldwide. Property belonging to individuals was taken away while they were raiding a CORPORATION. I sure as hell didn't see any Wall Street types having their homes and possessions seized prior to any actual cases going to trial.

I allege the moon is made of green cheese, this does not make it factual even if I can convince X people (who weren't smart enough to avoid jury duty) that it is true.
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JMT (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 4:06pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
Can you point out exactly where anybody said anything in support of their mansions and megarich behaviour? I don't recall anybody other than you commenting on how their money was spent.
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John Fenderson (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 4:12pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
"First of all, they routinely xray packages."

Perhaps, but X-rays cannot determine if a substance is illegal or if the package contain a copyright violation. The x-rays are looking for things that could be bombs. These services are commonly used to distribute contraband, and are a low-risk way of doing so.

The package delivery services can't police for copyright violations (or effectively for drugs) for the same reason file lockers can't -- it's not so easy to tell that the contents are illegal just by looking.

"And what is the penalty if someone is caught misusing FedEx, etc for criminal purposes? Jail."

Actually, no. Jail might result for the crime committed, but not for using FedEx to do it.

"What's the penalty for both the uploader and the website if they violate the DMCA on a cyberlocker? Nothing."

You're just making stuff up now. There are very real penalties for violating the DMCA. The penalties could possibly even include jail.
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John Fenderson (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 4:17pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
"If filelockers want to provide a service, they should figure out a way to do it so that if someone misuses it, they can be punished."

Why should they? This is a serious question. Sure, it would be nice of them, but why should this be required?

Likewise:

"Feel free to share all the alternatives the tech industry offered."

Actually, they've offered a lot of alternatives. A lot of alternatives have been offered on TechDirt as well.

But, again, why is it their responsibility to offer any at all? Why is it considered some kind of slam against anyone for not offering alternatives. The piracy mess is a result of the *AAs failings. Why is it up to anyone else to clean up their problem?
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Richard (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 4:25pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Only slimeballs refuse to face the consequences of their actions: If pirates hadn't misused filelockers, these actions wouldn't have happened. If filelockers want to provide a service, they should figure out a way to do it so that if someone misuses it, they can be punished.

That's how public storage works, and there's no reason it shouldn't be the same in cyberspace.

1. I don't see why legitimate users of file lockers should lose out here they aren't doing anything wrong. Your sense of fairness is defective.

2. Sometimes changes in technology force changes in the law - because without that we cannot have the benefits of the technology. This has already happened with copyright - when all the ephemeral copies that computers make were legalised. It will have to happen again or we will all lose out.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 4:42pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
You're just making stuff up now. There are very real penalties for violating the DMCA. The penalties could possibly even include jail.

Really? Since 1998 how many people have actually been jailed under the DMCA versus the billions of illegal downloads.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 4:47pm

Re: Lawsuit Time
Wouldn't it be productive if a bunch of the independents that were sharing their own music or films or books got together and shared the cost of suing the government for eliminating their legitimate use of Megaupload?

Wouldn't it be productive (cheaper and more likely to succeed) if a bunch of the independents that were sharing their own music or films or books got together and shared the cost of creating their own platform for the legitimate use of their content?
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 5:16pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
Actually, you can. I can't remember the exact article, but I'll link to it as soon as I find it, where a music label filed a DMCA takedown on a song on Youtube, claiming ownership of the song. Turns out, they had no ownership nor claim to the song at all. It was by an independent artist with completely original material.

Reason for the takedown it turns out was that they wanted to license the music to be used by another artist.

Thus, at least in this one instance, you CAN send copyright infringement claims on material you DO NOT own.

This was a tactic used by the company to take it down so no one would see it, so they could then try and negotiate with the original artist to take over his creation for their own use.

Also, I'm not saying it would be right to do so. I'm just saying it's something that can be done. Given some of the trolls on here, I wouldn't put it past them to do such a thing regularly. Especially if some of us here put stuff on Youtube or elsewhere that we wanted to freely share. They'd go out of their ways just because of how they are.
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ArkahnX (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 5:33pm

Re: Re: Re: Smoke and Mirrors
Or, sadly, doing their job very well. Somehow some people are buying these numbers (mostly incompetence in power), which has given them more freedom to make more garbage numbers. Or something like that.
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Bob Hart, 23 Jan 2012 @ 5:45pm

bummer
this sucks but filesonic really did have a GRIP of infringing content on it...regardless I personally hated both filesonic, megaupload, AND most of all hotfile...I used to have alot of my stuff on FS, but then their service went down to crap�then switched to hotfile, who's servers crashed & lost ALL my files�then megaupload which omg i can�t believe what happened.

now I have all my files on:
http://www.peeje.com/upload

�decent sized allowance, and it gives my users direct-links�which they love....so far, it�s been better than sonic, MU and HF COMBINED!!!
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 6:04pm

Re: Re: Lawsuit Time
So it could be swamped by bogus DMCA claims, and eventually taken down after being labeled a 'pirate haven'?

I really wish I was joking here...
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 6:06pm

Cowards, the bunch of em

Bowing down to pressure like this, its exactly what they want, scare tactics at its finest, way to inflate their egos why dont ya, they'll just get worse now, which will take more from us, in order to be heard

To those filesharing sites that keep their current business model, much respect, hope you follow MegaUploads footsteps, a new take on an old business model, minus the infringment, well, until the artist start bypassing the middle man completly, which, lets not kid ourselfs, is the real reason behind all this bullshit (speculation, not based on facts, see what i did there "middle man"), and dont forget the sprinkling of government..... "lets see where this goes, and see if we can use it" stance......censorship for the win

I hope the content providers nightmares are realised, and artists migrate by the droves
I hope the site that steps up and takes MegaUploads mantle, takes all your customers with em

Yours Sincerely
A potential customer, forever lost.

the sea beckons........
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Billy Mays Here, 23 Jan 2012 @ 6:08pm

D:
U.S. government = true trolls of america..... D:
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 6:25pm

Top boss Corrupt politician:
Right, new bill lads, how can we fix this. How can we have our cake and eat it

Idea man Corrupt politician:???????

Dumb ass Corrupt politician:???????

Janitor:

Idea man Corrupt politician:
Mmmmm....ive heard that turning things off then on, fixes alot these internet vodoo-mi-jigs

Top boss Corrupt politician:
Turn the internet off then on.........that..............makes..................no sense?

Dumb ass Corrupt politician:???????
.......We..........could ...............leave it off????

Top boss Corrupt politician:
..................................BRILLIANT!!!!!!

Janitor
*Facepalm
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 8:04pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Having worked at a UPS distribution center I'll call bullshit on this. They don't inspect a damn thing, and often are outside of regulations.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 8:29pm

Re: Re: Re: Piracy might drop in the short run, but not the long run
Ah, of course the random AC who claims to have filed thousands of DMCA notices would magically know that another person posting under a psuedonym is a liar and a slimeball.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 8:32pm

Re: Re:
The labels claim they're making losses even as they give their CEO massive bonuses. Support or not, do what you will, it won't make a difference to their claims.
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Anonymous Coward, 23 Jan 2012 @ 8:35pm

Re: Re:
You're saying this based on the belief that all cops are bastions of reliability, accountability and suitable restraint.

Regardless of whether anything illegal happened most organisations will pull operations at the drop of a pin just to cover their ass. Happens in the army, happens in businesses, happens everywhere.
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NoNo, 23 Jan 2012 @ 8:55pm

Time to use torrent again>>>>>
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tsavory (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 9:10pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
I don't care how much infringement was there and how much was not the point is they took down the way that Many use to distribute their own Cad files, Software, Music, Videos, and pictures. All before court this is not the same as a drug dealer losing his car that affects him and only those close to him this effected the world.
I was lucky My stuff is on Rapidshare using Directdownloads so I am ok for now but
It just cost me 3000 dollars to buy and put in the servers extra line I need and my clients still can't download at a reasonable speed If it is going to cost more than about another 1000 to get a tolerable speed I am shutting the doors on the section of my life as its not worth it.
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tsavory (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 9:22pm

Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
And that right there is the biggest mistake they needed to band together and tell the US government to go fuck itself.
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Zenstrive (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 9:24pm

Re: Lawsuit Time
And the government would point them to the major labels...

"They are legal and will take care of you just fine. Just ask Bieber and Gaga!"
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athe, 23 Jan 2012 @ 9:47pm

Re: Re:
And cupcakes... Mmm... Cupcakes....
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tsavory (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 10:00pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
And what is the penalty if someone is caught misusing FedEx, etc for criminal purposes? Jail.

What's the penalty for both the uploader and the website if they violate the DMCA on a cyberlocker? Nothing.

Notice you said if someone is caught using FedEx the person can go to jail but in the other one you want both punished hypocrite.
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ltlw0lf (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 10:46pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
I disagree. I don't think anyone is above backing up their statements with facts and evidence.

Not sure I needed to provide evidence in my anecdote about how I used MediaFire/RapidShare to pass pictures from a game, but the game is called Eve Online, and the functionality to take pictures is built into the client, and CCP has been very clear in the fact that movies/pictures taken by their users in game are legal and may be passed around as the user sees fit. Not sure how I can prove that is the only thing I used MegaUpload/RapidShare for, but I do not have accounts on either service and uploaded the pictures anonymously, and I believe anonymous uploads have a rather small limit on file sizes.

Then again, the thread was hijacked as myself and DCX2 were talking about how we legally used the service and AC came along and didn't really offer anything to show us wrong either.
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tsavory (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 10:47pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Hmm Seems weird that the CEO of a bank gets caught and plead guilty to money laundering but yet they did not close the bank or even its site down why?
Probably because it would have effected all the people that used the bank but wait never mind this shut down effected the world not just the U.S. Damn where is the logic?
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ltlw0lf (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 10:54pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
Thus, at least in this one instance, you CAN send copyright infringement claims on material you DO NOT own.

I remember that case, though I can't remember the outcome, but had I been the artist in question I would have sued the crap out of the label for extortion -- they took down legal material in order to get a leg up on negotiations for buying the material. Dirty pool and at a very minimum, I'd ask the judge as a penalty for filing a false copyright claim in order to influence a sale that all their copyrights be null and void, or at least returned back to the artists who should rightfully own them.

Then again, if I was a struggling independent artist, I might not have the capital to go after the fatcats, but at least I'd let everyone know far and wide that they were playing some very dirty pool by keeping me from being able to support myself by blocking my music in order to negotiate sale of my music to them.
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tsavory (profile), 23 Jan 2012 @ 11:49pm

Re: Re: Re: Re:
Woops I guess that was to many fact for him to process and he thinks he can process the thousands of files being uploaded a day and know which ones are infringing.
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Ray J, 24 Jan 2012 @ 4:56am

The sky is falling
What's wrong for paying for your own storage? Last i checked web hosts have lots and los of storage, and free help setting up your own web access.
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explicit coward (profile), 24 Jan 2012 @ 5:49am

Re: Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
Quote: "... and you are an idiot"

an idiot with a fancier front end!
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Marcel de Jong (profile), 24 Jan 2012 @ 6:18am

Re: Re: Re: Re: It's actually really, really bad
If MegaUpload was that rich, doesn't that mean that there is money to be had in giving access to content?

And if there's money in giving access to content, shouldn't the labels be trying to copy that move?
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btrussell (profile), 24 Jan 2012 @ 8:22am

Re:
I've never stopped...seeding Linux
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mooperscooper, 24 Jan 2012 @ 2:34pm

New Z
So what is the reaction from the people of new zeland or where mega's people are being extradited from? Are they also starting to possibly feel like being more anti-idiocy as it seems many americans are possibly feeling? Curious to see how people in other countries are reacting to this move, what with canada and EU watching what happens here to help decide how much money it will cost to get them to do the same thing we are trying to do with SOPA and such.
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 24 Jan 2012 @ 6:44pm

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
The funnier portion of that thought is the **AA's think it is possible, even though their own attempts to do so often end in abject failure because they assume if 1 word matches in a filename it HAS to be something they own.
I enjoyed the DMCA notices they sent to a Professor Usher over daring to post files for his class, because he had to be a thief "stealing" from them because it was an MP3 with the word Usher in it.

I suppose someone could build a system to check everything for infringement, but it would cost them more money than they are willing to put towards the effort. If they can force everyone else to spend money to protect them, then its perfectly ok.

I guess I would maybe kinda sorta it is possible, feel something for them had they developed a real project to do the matching, offered an API services could hook into and it was still happening. But their current plan is scream everyone is ripping them off and they are helpless to stop it. They are not helpless victims, they are cheap asses who want their monopoly and everyone else to support it even more.
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 25 Jan 2012 @ 6:48pm

Re: The sky is falling
There is the rogue country out there that feels if it ends in .com and a couple other TLD's they have the right to steal the domain if their corporate sponsors will them to.
You don't even have to have actually broken any law, and it will take you over a year to get your domain and stuff back all the while that nice man from ICE will lie to you, your lawyer, the judge, the media and anyone else who asks what happened.

That and some of us don't like sharing with others who can use a whois to find out way more about us than we care to share will the class.

I'm a NYM and I approve this message.
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That Anonymous Coward (profile), 25 Jan 2012 @ 6:50pm

Re: New Z
the NZ media has been covering the case like they are a Murdoch owned news company.
They are leaving out details of statements and facts to turn them into disturbing things.

Maybe the US promised NZ if they did this Hollywood would stop waiting 2 years before releasing content there...
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Mirky Aida, 7 Feb 2012 @ 4:09am

another sharing
there is another upload and sharing site
uploadany.com

free and easy
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Joe Stevens, 25 May 2012 @ 12:35pm

Re: Smoke and Mirrors
No kidding about illegal immigration, BUT get real facts MORON.

illegal immigration=have created a debt so bad? what are you smoking?

Fags like you created this economic chaos!
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