FTC Offers $50,000 To Whoever Can Come Up With A Way To Stop 'Rachel From Cardholder Services'
from the stop-her-before-she-calls-again dept
The current administration has expressed interest in different kinds of "innovation prizes" for a while, so it's interesting to see the FTC offer up $50,000 to individuals or small companies if they can come up with a good solution to dealing with robocalls (automated telemarketing recordings that call tons of people). There are a few things that are interesting about this. First, the language on the FTC site about this really suggests that the FTC itself is exasperated by their own inability to stop the problem. They specifically call out "shady" practices, and highlight how "annoying" the calls are:Current technology still allows shady telemarketers to cheaply autodial thousands of phone calls every minute and display false or misleading caller ID information. Among these are the famously annoying calls from “Rachel From Cardholder Services.”The other interesting bit is that the prize is only available to small companies (less than 10 people) or individuals. If you're a big company, they'll give you an award... but no cash. Of course, the FTC also notes that anyone who solves this problem will receive some other benefits as well:
“We think this will be an effective approach in the case of robocalls because the winner of our challenge will become a national hero.”That might be a slight exaggeration, but I do imagine a successful solution will lead to at least 15 minutes of press fame.
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Filed Under: ftc, innovation prizes, robocalls
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15 minutes
By coincidence, that's the same amount of time it will take for the scammers to route around the solution or find some other way to scam people.
As long as there are people who will fall for Rachel from Cardholer Services, or John from the Auto Warranty Center, or a prince from Nigeria, or popups saying your computer is infected and you must run this tool and pay $50, or buy things from spam emails, we'll never solve the problems.
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Re: 15 minutes
Then wait for Hollywood to use all of there power to lobby the government to spend billions on developing laws and software to resolve the problem
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Re: 15 minutes
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I call my method "00 buckshot."
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Dundundun dunun
Dundundun dunun
[Terminator theme]
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Rachel and her Friends
But, seriously, folks, why don't they just follow the money? I'm presuming we know who's doing this, as the records of the call centers in Los Angeles and Florida can be subpoenaed.
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Re: Rachel and her Friends
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You will worship me if though I were a GOD!
That might be a slight exaggeration,"
No. This is no exaggeration. I will bow down and worship the ground they walk on to whomever invents an anti-robocaller solution.
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Re: You will worship me if though I were a GOD!
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Pirates to the rescue!
2. Seed really bad porn.
3. Let the copyright trolls hunt down these miscreants.
4. Profit!
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isn't it just a spam filter
Even if they fake the caller ID number, there should still be a source identifier underneath in order to make a connection, surely?
Also, make falsifying caller ID numbers illegal,and look in the backpages for telesales job vacancies.
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Re: isn't it just a spam filter
Seriously? Fuck you.
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There's at least some protection in the bill, it seems. Still, to try to stop something already illegal by making it a little more illegal seems...fucking retarded. Seriously. A law to make breaking the law illegal. If this strikes anyone as a solution, they need to be quarantined immediately until science can adequately explain just how they manage to operate without a functioning brain and whether or not it's dangerous to society as a whole.
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Re: isn't it just a spam filter
Women hiding form abusive spouses etc... they tend to rely on those services.
The police like to use them as well...
most telemarketing is done from outside the US now so they can use the do not call list as a rolodex.
Oh I know lets use those nice NSA black boxes and keyword search cardmember services... betcha they get a telemarketer caught before a real terrorist.
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Re: isn't it just a spam filter
It already is illegal.
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Offer a bounty to find the scammers
I don't care if they're in another country. If we can extradite a college kid for legally (in his country) providing links to tv shows (but not actually hosting the downloads), then surely we can extradite these scumbags.
That would stop Rachel. Can I collect my $50,000 now?
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Re: Offer a bounty to find the scammers
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Helpful solution :)
Step 1, Setup Honey pots that you know will get called (google voice numbers that have not been allocated yet for example).
Step 2, Record responses looking for specific patterns, just like the audio finger printing used on youtube.
Step 3, At the phone exchange level, record the first 10 seconds of any call to capture " Person from card holder services". If those first 10 seconds from the caller match the audio fingerprint, disconnect the call.
Step 4, At the exchange level, find calls that are coming from the same system, or look for other patterns that result in an auto disconnect. Blacklist those calls and send them to your honeypots, if a call hits the honeypot fails to match current audio fingerprints, forward the call to its destination.
Step 5, build whitelists of frequent call pairs.
What this solution needs to work correctly:
Access to vast arrays of numbers that are not given out.
Access to exchange level phone data
Access to audio fingerprinting tech
People to opt into the system so that a computer can collect an audio fingerprint.
An array of various phone greetings for the honey pots (google has this with google voice).
None of the above tech is outside current technology, when you place it at the exchange level you have access to the entire call routing so you should be able to know who the outbound line or lines are (all the way down to the T1 or PRI trunk).
Problems:
Only Google or other phone company can even think of doing the above.
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Ummm
Change the tech being used. Require caller ID info supplied by a validated 3rd party, like your registered phone company.
If tech is the limiting factor, then replace the tech.
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Re: Ummm
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This is ridiculous.
Every single telephone carrier has the endpoints for all calls. *57 should be available for ALL CALLS, including the fake-legal charities, politicos, et cetera. At the end of the month, I click "opt out" to all reported/tracked *57 calls, and my telco can NEVER EVER connect a call from the entity, no matter how many phone numbers they have.
Force the externality back onto the telcos where it belongs, and this ends today. Forget a 50k prize, start levying fines of 50k per incident to every telco.
Oh, wait, that's right, the FTC doesn't actually work for ratepayers. Sorry.
-C
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Re: This is ridiculous.
- marketing that the feature is available. This can be addressed with money which the telcos certainly seem to rake in hand-over-fist. I still remember *69 from the telco advertising back in the 80s.
- pranksters that report people. This could be mitigated by the telcos maintaining a "this phonenumber/source has received more than N complaints from more than M recipients" tally, and only take action against those that exceed a certain threshold.
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Re: This is ridiculous.
This doesn't sound very practical. "The entity" could be a foreign phone company with millions of subscribers. And even if you can convince every phone company in the world to pass end-user identification, it would be easy enough to create a new corporate entity every month. (It's probably not automated like in Accelerando, but it does happen. If you search for "eNom" in a domain registrar list, you'll find about 100 companies with names like "eNom623, Inc.", "eNom1014, Inc.", etc.)
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Ahem, on a more serious note, Josh might be spot on: how long would it take for the idiots to route around? The solution is to educate ppl and render such calls useless (and thus unprofitable to the perpetrators).
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An app for that?
There would be issues with scammers spoofing reliable numbers, but then it would give legitimate companies a good reason to track down the scammers who are giving their number a bad reputation.
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Re:
I helped my parents set up something like that. Of course, these days they're starting to wonder if they still even need a landline...
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You got it
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Re: Had One
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Definition of Utter Bullshit
They claim that by doing so they can identify specific individuals engaged in criminal activity.
But they can't find the source of these particular calls? Calls, that just so happen to be a big part of their raison d'ętre
Guess which branch of the government or the other is bullshitting you.
The correct answer would be "both"
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A solution could emulate the anti-spam technology
A facility implemented by the telcos and enabled by default would put every phone number served by the telco on a DoNotRoboCall list. Consumer could un-subscribe to the DoNotRoboCall list by using a *xx facility the telcos use to let consumers tweak their own telco service options to enable or disable this feature.
Telcos would implement an out-of-band signaling mechanism where a signal is sent to the originator of the all calls. RoboCallers would have to implement technology to recognize the out-of-band signal and terminate the call immediately before the call rings through to the consumer; a timeout facility is implemented by the telco that if the call does not terminate in (2 seconds (pick a number)) then the telco puts the call through to the consumer. The consumer on detecting a RoboCall presses a *xx number on the telephone keypad. The remainder of the call is recorded by the telco. The telco is required to listen to each call recorded by the DoNotRoboCall facility and determine its validity. RoboCall operators would have to upgrade/replace their existing RoboCall equipment immediately; no grandfathering of existing equipment is allowed. If the RoboCaller lets a call go through to someone on the DoNotRoboCall list, then the RoboCaller is considered in violation of the law.
National legislation would be necessary that says that any RoboCaller that dials a phone number with anti-robocall enabled is liable for payment, say $10,000 per call, via the telco to the consumer. The telco is permitted to take a small portion of the payment to implement the DoNotRoboCall feature.
Violation of the DoNotRoboCall mechanism is also a criminal offense where the officers and directors of the robocalling entity are strictly and personally liable for each and every violation. Financial penalties become the personal liabilities of the owners, officers and directors of the RoboCalling entities and are not shielded by normal "corporate shield" law. After a first conviction, mandatory sentencing of 20 years for ALL owners, officers and directors is the law of the land. Fines cannot be discharged by bankrupcy. Community property laws do not shield spouses under the principle that the spouses benefitted from the ill-gotten gain of the RoboCaller. The US Marines may be deployed to any nation that shields assets of a RoboCaller.
... No prisoners.
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Re: A solution could emulate the anti-spam technology
Political and not-for-profit RoboCalls are not exempt from the DoNotRoboCall law.
Penalties for political RoboCalls are the imprisonment of the candidate for 20 years, no exceptions. In the case of RoboCalling on behalf of ballot initiatives the the vote goes against the desired outcome of the RoboCaller. The officers and directors of the payor for the RoboCall are presumed to be the initiators of the RoboCall; penalties are the same as commercial RoboCallers. In the case of "front" organizations, strict liability is passed through to the real backers of the initiative.
Penalties for not-for-profits is the same as previously stated for [presumably] for-profits. In addition, the not-for-profit is dissolved with all proceeds from its liquidation going to the US Treasury.
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Re: Re: A solution could emulate the anti-spam technology
OK, you seriously do not have anywhere near enough experience with security. You have to think like a bad guy. How would a bad guy use a law like this?
"I want Barack Obama to get reelected. Let's set up a bunch of pro-Romney robocalls!"
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It wouldn't be that hard ...
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How can I contribute to that reward?
It's gotten to where I'm beginning to involuntarily hate everyone named Rachel.
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Call blockers
TeleBouncer Blocker TB1000 Block Telemarketing Calls
T-lock Incoming PRO Call Blocker with LCD Display and Blacklist
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Re: Call blockers
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Re: Call blockers
Amazon has all kinds of cool things they want to sell. Ive spent almost every spare second tracing who is behind the harassment of my elderly parents and Amazon is one of the biggest criminals behind some of the phone scaming spoofing phishing.
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telemarketers
1. Gullible idiot (i.e. you followed their instructions)..Your info will be used over and over in future scams.
2. People who said No and generally hung up. Telemarketers believe they can 'grind' you down into doing what they say just to make them go away.
3. Time wasters. A typical telemarket agent has to call HUNDREDS of people a day to get the 1 or 2 that are gullible enough to fall for the scam. If you waste 10-15mins of their time, which could have been spent speaking to more people, then admit at the end of the call what you did, they won't want to waste time with you again.
-- side note --
My favorite thing to tell telemarketers is that it's against my deeply held religious beliefs to use the telephone.....do they a) Agree and hang up the phone or b) call me a lying piece of crap - in which case they've lost me anyway?
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Re: telemarketers
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also
If they ask you "in that case, why are you on the phone now?" - become angry and indignant and say you've never used a telephone in your life, you aren't using one now and you never will because thats dirty/sinful and those that use telephones will BURN IN HELLFIRE!
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basic economics
I can adjust the barrier. I can make a whitelist of numbers that my sentry will let in without payment, or a blacklist of suspicious numbers that must pay a higher toll. I can put in a standing order to remit payment on any call I don't actually pick up. Anything else I can think of, that the open source community can code up.
If Rachel wants to beat this, she'll have to either get much better at the Turing test, or break every online finance system yet invented.
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Simple
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We all have to protect our homes with security devices such as locks,alarms,dogs,extra personnel,bars on the windows and neighborhood watches.
But if strangers or the government want to invade your computer or phone and track your movements read your emails and texts, watch where you shop and what you buy, listen to your phone calls,look through your contacts for associations and believe that you're a thief or terrorists because of your political or religious beliefs, thats OK and perfectly legal!
With all of us being bombarded and harassed and having to continually protect ourselves from unscrupulous governments and marketeers, this is what everyone is worried about?
RACHAEL!!! Really!
BLOODY FUCKING HELL!
The feds can find anyone anywhere anytime, and they can't find some telemarketers?
But I'll play the game anyway.Just remember you heard it here first.
This appears to be a land line issue...so forward your calls to your cell phone and unplug your landline telephone.CID spoofing will most probably trigger the default ringer.Assign different ring tones to all the contacts that you want to receive calls from.
Alternatively just have everyone call you on your cell phone
and disconnect your landline.
I'm sure there will be an APP for this soon.
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Rachel must be stopped!!!!
Even at consumer complaint websites such as www.callercenter.com, "Rachel" rules the place with her most number of complaints. I wonder why the authorities, with the help of telephone companies, can't do something about her.
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There's a fast solution...
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Certainly a web-enabled device on a land line could do similar (voip/sip phones, etc.)
Time to fire up eclipse and see what I can code...
(These guys have been calling my cell for years, drive me nuts.)
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Rachael at Card Holder Services
Install a device on your phone what upon its button being pressed, closes down the speaker so you can't hear, (and you can go back to whatever you were doing), but keeps 'Rachael' 's robotic voice on the line. The device then presses the keys to bring a real human on the line, and then, having confirmed a human, plays a very high decibel, ear-spitting (literally) shriek into the microphone.
Yes, this is painful for the poor telemarketer, but when it is installed on enough lines, and enough telemarketers begin showing up with hearing problems, then Rachael's boss will have a tough time finding people to work the boiler rooms.
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Killing Rachael
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This is a sick waste of govt money and time
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Stopping bad callers
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Telemarketer Cardmember Services
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How to block calls from telemarketers
Tried of endless caller scammers? Take action today by knowing all the resource available to you! Check Out my site: http://strategicdata.net/
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Don’t allow phone companies to move to all ip and retire the digital switch. Before all the deregulation and move to all ip, robocalls weren’t much of a problem.
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Unknown Calls
I did a search on google to query unknown phone numbers free of charge, I encountered a lot of free services. This site was https://theunknowncall.com that caught my attention. I tracked him for a few days, sending dozens of reports daily.
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"winner of our challenge will become a national hero ..."
"SLIGHT EXAGGERATION"? Are you kidding me? I'd personally star a gofundme page and a petition to erect a national monument to whomever can stop the plague of spam calls.
Also of note, is that my family and I own both iPhones and Androids and have found that these calls are more excessively prevalent on iPhones. Has anyone else noted the same? (Extremely curious).
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