ICE Starts Raiding Mobile Phone Repair Shops To Stop Repairs With Aftermarket Parts
from the is-this-really-the-best-use-of-taxpayer-money dept
Apparently Homeland Security's Immigration & Custom's Enforcement (ICE) team has found a new tech issue to overreact to and overhype. shutslar points us to a story of ICE agents raiding 25 smartphone repair shops in South Florida for daring to repair phones with aftermarket parts, rather than original products from Apple. As seems standard for ICE these days, rather than actually understanding the details at hand, they're taking orders from a corporate entity, in this case, Apple:Apple is working with the government to shut down those who mislead consumers.This seems like a massive overreaction to a mere case of "misleading" consumers. They paint this as if it's some massive danger to make use of an aftermarket/non-Apple parts in doing the repair, but it's not. In many cases, such aftermarket parts are a good way to fix a phone at a more reasonable price. If Apple feels some of the shops are misleading customers, then it can sue for trademark infringement and deal with it that way.
Having over-aggressive, amped up ICE agents pretending this is a drug raid and that they need to "shut down" these shops is a massive overreaction which only serves to help prop up Apple's bottom line by taking aftermarket competitive parts out of the market, so that Apple can keep the margins on its parts extra high. Either way, there's simply no reason for treating the whole thing like a drug raid:
"When they came in it almost looked like a drug raid," Said Abella.They came after you because you weren't paying the toll to Apple, and Apple doesn't like competition. Why our taxpayer money is being used to support such a massive overreaction, shutting down small businesses who provide a useful service repairing phones, is beyond me. Honestly, ICE's propensity to act as private cops (with guns) doing favors for giant businesses is really sickening. ICE has been out of control for a long time, and shutting down small businesses because Apple doesn't want to compete? That's just crazy.
Abella claims there were 20 ICE agents and two people from Apple in his small Bird Road store.
Abella says he began fixing Apple Products because everyone else was.
"We got the parts from a company in California. To this day that vendor is still selling parts," Said Abella.
"Why did the come after me?” he added.
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Reader Comments
The First Word
“'"Unless they are getting it from an Apple authorized manufacturer, they are most likely getting substandard parts which are counterfeit and illegal to possess," Said Agent O'Neill'
Wait. Illegal to POSSESS? Are these phones infused with cocaine or plutonium or something?
"Abel Abella's says his store was raided by agents who seized $5000 worth of parts."
20 agents for $5000 worth of parts? Overkill much?
Oh, and for my previous question of why this department is involved, I found the answer:
"O'Neill says it's a public safety issue and that is how Homeland Security is involved.
He says consumers have be hurt by overheating phones that were repaired using counterfeit parts."
Seriously? Homeland Security is now involved in protecting us from overheating phones?
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Uh, sorry, but that's not what it stands for.
Industry & Corporate Enforcement.
Please make note of this in the future, for accuracy. ;)
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Well considering Hollywood's still tricking people into seeing shitty movies by making them look awesome or showing all the good parts, they're obviously not doing a good job.
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I mean seriously, with the insurance you can buy with cell phones, and so many cell phone companies offering a free cell phone every so many years, there can't be much of a profit margin fixing ANY cell phones, apple or not. If you get it too expensive people just buy a new one.
Which of course is part of why companies like Apple make cell phones so cheaply that they break so easily, since they can get away with it with how many people consider cell phones disposable.
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Re:
If phone companies can make repair shops obsolete by offering cheap phones and lots of free replacement deals, then that's just them winning in the marketplace, and we should accept it. However, if they need the help of ICE to go in and shut down the repair shops as is apparently the case, that's not a fair market victory.
Approaching it from a perspective of fairness and competition is the best way. Otherwise, before you know it, it's the repair shops using ICE as a private police force to shut down the competition.
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Does that include Apple?
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Replacing parts = "sue for trademark infringement"???
First, that's just wrong if it's physical parts, EVEN IF had imitation logo.
2nd, Apple is a third party to the misleading, where's its standing?
3rd, why is Mike advising a mis-use of trademark in this case?
And as usual, Mike is just bewildered by fascism. -- Seriously, why follow a guy who says this "is beyond me"? Where exactly do you expect do you expect to end up when your supposed leader admits inability?
Take a loopy tour of Techdirt.com! You always end up same place!
http://techdirt.com/
Even if Mike is absolutely right about problems, he has no solutions to even suggest.
04:56:05[f-137-5]
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Re: Replacing parts = "sue for trademark infringement"???
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Re: Replacing parts = "sue for trademark infringement"???
First, that's just wrong if it's physical parts, EVEN IF had imitation logo.
Er, actually, if the parts were being passed off as official Apple parts when they weren't, it would indeed be trademark infringement (EVEN IF they didn't have an imitation logo)
How do you think trademark works exactly?
2nd, Apple is a third party to the misleading, where's its standing?
Um, it's standing is as the trademark holder... Again, how do you think trademark works exactly?
3rd, why is Mike advising a mis-use of trademark in this case?
How would that be trademark mis-use? Trademarks as a way of preventing customer confusion and stopping companies from misleading consumers is a good thing. That's what it's for. So, as the post said, if Apple genuinely thinks customers are being misled into buying aftermarket parts while thinking they are official Apple parts, trademark is the correct way to address that -- it wouldn't shut down repair shops, merely force them to make it clear that they use third-party parts. Of course, it doesn't seem likely that Apple does genuinely believe that, which is why they aren't using trademark here, and instead just using it as an excuse to try to shut down the shops altogether.
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Blatant antitrust violation
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Who will be the next company to stop "innovating" (big word for Apple...) and start suing/seizing? M$, we're all looking at you.
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Re:
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I'm hoping someone who knows a lot more about the law can answer two questions.
1) If the parts are from California and the repair shop is in Florida, what crossed a US border? How is this a concern for Immigration and Customs? What law is being broken? Trademark infringement is a civil, not criminal, offense.
2) I have to assume a search warrant was issued for ICE to even be able to enter the shop. Is it really proper for a warrant to allow non-LEO personnel to take part? I don't understand what the Apple reps were doing there.
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wake up!
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Re:
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Why ICE?
"ICE agents"
Excuse me, but why is ICE even looking at this if the parts are from California? There are no customs due when shipping from one state to another. In fact, Article 1 Section 9 of the Constitution forbids it: "No Tax or Duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any State." So tell me why, exactly, ICE is even here?
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Response to: Anonymous Coward on Apr 30th, 2013 @ 9:11am
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Re: Replacing parts = "sue for trademark infringement"???
And for this same exact reason is why people don't follow a guy like you who posts rambling "beyond me" comments to practically every article on techdirt.
Seriously you should take your own loopy tour of yourself!
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Re:
This sounds exactly like cases in Britain where members of FACT would accompany the police on arrests, and even be given key pieces of evidence like computers, despite the fact they are not police, but are in fact the accusers.
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Re: wake up!
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Re:
Really, the car analogy works best. It's like a repair shop that uses parts that aren't approved by Ford. So long as they do not tell the consumer that these are genuine Ford parts (thus misleading them), where's the crime?
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Re: Blatant antitrust violation
That said, a SWAT raid over this is completely insane. As is ICE's bogus excuse that it is a public safety issue. This is an abuse of power, pure and simple.
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Re: Why ICE?
Because ICE never misses an opportunity to make themselves look bad.
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Re: Re: wake up!
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Re: Blatant antitrust violation
Of course, because that would require them to exhibit intellect greater than that of a potato.
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Re: Re:
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'"Unless they are getting it from an Apple authorized manufacturer, they are most likely getting substandard parts which are counterfeit and illegal to possess," Said Agent O'Neill'
Wait. Illegal to POSSESS? Are these phones infused with cocaine or plutonium or something?
"Abel Abella's says his store was raided by agents who seized $5000 worth of parts."
20 agents for $5000 worth of parts? Overkill much?
Oh, and for my previous question of why this department is involved, I found the answer:
"O'Neill says it's a public safety issue and that is how Homeland Security is involved.
He says consumers have be hurt by overheating phones that were repaired using counterfeit parts."
Seriously? Homeland Security is now involved in protecting us from overheating phones?
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Re: Re: Re: wake up!
heck, didn't they used to have like 5 times as many agents when Reagan was in office than they do today?
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Re: Re: Blatant antitrust violation
I wonder what the effect on public safety actually was with these parts - as opposed to, say, 20 armed men breaking down a shop's door over a few grand worth of merchandise...
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Want a competitor shut down? No problem, ICE is here for you!
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why not say the word ???? COUNTERFEIT
Massive difference, if you go to a car yard and you see a car with FORD written on it, you have an expectation that the car was made by for FORD car making place.
If you get the car home and find that even though it says it's a FORD it was in fact make by pygmies in Borneo you might think you have been ripped off, after all you payed for a FORD, made by FORD.
Counterfeit integrated circuits are the ones that are marked as failed during production testing, factory seconds if you like. They are not fit for purpose and do not meet the required technical specifications.
They simply do not work as well as they should, I bet these repair shops that get these cheap parts to NOT pass that saving onto the customer, they pocket it. The customer would be paying the full retail price for a fully spec'd and QC (quality control) passed.
It after these products are "fixed" with these ILLEGAL and faulty parts, and they do not perform to expectation the customer will blame Apple for the problems.
Again, this is damaging to a companies reputation, and it is for that reason counterfeit parts are illegal and correct action be taken.
There was a big market in counterfeit aircraft parts leading to some major air crashes and loss of life.
So it is NOT ok to use counterfeit parts or to misrepresent what you are doing, or selling.
now if there were 25 repair shops and they seized between $250,000 and $300,000 worth of counterfeit parts that averages around $10,000 dollars per shop (or more), these are NOT small repair shops in that case.
And who on earth has phones repaired these days anyway ???
if you have $10,000 dollars worth of illegal parts in your 'repair' shop, then you are not really in the business of repair. No repair shop would stock $10,000 worth of components just to repair one brand of phone !!.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: wake up!
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Plus, often aftermarket parts are the same quality - if not better.
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http://www.windowsphone.com/en-US
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Re:
They have taken manufacturing jobs overseas hurting American workers along with American productivity. They've charged the same prices for phones as anyone else. They tend to their flowered gardens of apps, hurting software developers. They work with the government to make sure that they keep cheap prices on overseas labor (Foxconn). Yet, the government isn't investigating them? Their monopolies?
Seriously?
Why do we just look the other way when the government isn't noticing the main problem?
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Re: Re: Replacing parts = "sue for trademark infringement"???
Par for the course, blue...all your blathering is repetitious..day in...day out.
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Re:
OK, so there are only a couple of documented cases, but one of them was on a plane so Apple is a terrorist organization!
See I can play too.
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Re: Why ICE?
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Re: Re:
http://www.slashgear.com/apple-iphone-5-investigators-had-police-escort-sfpd-admits-03176 790/
I can't remember the whole outcome...
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one more for the road
And look like I will copyright the name Annonymous Coward and get royalties from its use. PAY UP SUCKERS.
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Re: why not say the word ???? COUNTERFEIT
However, If I offer to repair your iPhone and don't say 'with genuine apple parts' then I may use after market parts if I wish.
Oh and that FORD you were talking about, better hope it had never been to a repair shop. Cars are most often repaired with aftermarket parts (even from some stealers, er um dealers). Insurance companies mandate the use of aftermarket parts in order to save money.
That may or may not be true, many of the parts come from production overruns as well. Such as when Apple slashed its iphone orders in half at the first of the year. The manufacturer will sell the parts to a third party rather than idle a production facility for days, or weeks.
Of course everyone is well aware that an airplane is equivalent to an iPhone, so the same level of scrutiny needs to be paid to both. Or you know, maybe not.
A $200 phone is not the same as a $2,000,000 plane and the phone doesn't pose the same risk to the public as the plane either.
Let's see many of these repair shops may repair a hundred phones or more a day. At say $75 per repair, $50 in parts. 100 x $50 = $5,000 in parts (or a two day supply of parts). No repair shop would ever have enough parts to run for a week... well maybe they might do that too huh.
I have repaired many phones for friends, if you have the right parts on hand and have done it before it takes less than 10 minutes, so 20 phones an hour is not out of the question.
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Re: why not say the word ???? COUNTERFEIT
Do you have any evidence? There are tons of second-hand parts for official stuff, cars included that are perfectly legit. I often use those in my car as the price can be 1/10th of the original while maintaining most of the quality. If in fact they were selling those stuff as original parts from Apple then it's another story but nowhere I've seen it mentioned.
Counterfeit integrated circuits are the ones that are marked as failed during production testing, factory seconds if you like. They are not fit for purpose and do not meet the required technical specifications.
No, counterfeit are precisely made to look like the original stuff but with less quality. Second hand parts are just not produced by the original manufacturer but can vary in a rather wide range of quality from just as good to downright garbage. And if I go for second hand parts I know what to expect. And I probably also know where to find better quality stuff.
It after these products are "fixed" with these ILLEGAL and faulty parts, and they do not perform to expectation the customer will blame Apple for the problems.
Only if they are sold as if they were the original. I don't blame GM for problems I have due to second hand parts. Because I know what I'm buying. And nowhere it's made clear those shops were really selling as if they were original stuff.
There was a big market in counterfeit aircraft parts leading to some major air crashes and loss of life.
Citation needed. But fortunately for you I read about it. And again it's not the same thing. Even if there was 100% certainty these shops were selling counterfeit parts.
these are NOT small repair shops in that case
Do you have any data to support your claims? Do you have a repair shop? Incidentally last time I tried to replace the GLASS COVER of my tablet the original piece would cost over $80. That's the GLASS alone. Considering the variety of cell phones and gadgets available $10k seems a pretty low value, eh?
And who on earth has phones repaired these days anyway ???
I did with an older model I liked recently. Just because you don't save money it does not mean others are an irresponsible spender like you. Also there's a good environmental aspect to this as you prevent unnecessary e-garbage generation.
if you have $10,000 dollars worth of illegal parts in your 'repair' shop, then you are not really in the business of repair. No repair shop would stock $10,000 worth of components just to repair one brand of phone !!.
See above. You are the only one assuming they were specialized on Apple products. And even so once you sum up all the small costs and a stock you have to keep this number suddenly gets very small. Must I remind you that $10k are about 25 iPhones worth? TWENTY-FIVE (at $400 per unit). The number doesn't sound so big now does it?
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Re: Blatant antitrust violation
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Re: Re: Re:
That's absurd. Even if Apple thought the repair shop was violating their ridiculously overbroad patents, it is still a civil offense that should be handled by the courts - not with a SWAT team provided by ICE and the federal government.
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Re: Re: Re: Re:
That's absurd. Even if Apple thought the repair shop was violating their ridiculously overbroad patents, it is still a civil offense that should be handled by the courts - not with a SWAT team provided by ICE and the federal government.
Why? The losers selling bootleg dvd's, phony Viagra and counterfeit NFL jerseys get locked up, raided, arrested, etc. all of the time. It's the same set of laws and it is a criminal infraction. Keep trying to wish it away though, I think you might actually even be able to convince yourself.
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Re:
Funny, I've heard more stories about Apple products overheating straight out of the box from Apple than those which have been repaired using non-Apple parts.
Google suggest "macbook o" first result is macbook overheating.
Google suggest "iphone o" eighth result is overheating, and first result from "iphone ov".
If Homeland Security is in charge of protecting us from overheating phones, they're doing about as good a job as the TSA in ensuring that airplanes arrive on schedule.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
Those are equally absurd.
It's the same set of laws and it is a criminal infraction.
So you're claiming that bootleg DVDs (copyright violation), phone Viagra (trademark violation), counterfeit NFL jerseys (again, trademark violation), and aftermarket Apple parts (patent violation) are all violations of the same laws? I don't suppose you could specify which ones?
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Re:
..., er um cars purchased instead of repairing the old one.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:
If a pharma company or the FDA wants to sue someone trying to pass off counterfeit drugs (actual counterfeit - not gray market imports that are legit), I'm fine with it - but the SWAT tactics and seizures prior to an adversarial hearing are insane and I believe a violation of due process. If the NFL wants to go after someone for trademark violations making unofficial jerseys and show both damages and that people were deceived into thinking they were official, fine, but again locking people up over that is crazy, you don't need armed SWAT, and seizures prior to adversarial hearings should be against everything we stand for.
The wider issue we need to consider is why those operations exist in the first place. And it comes down to the monopoly holders not serving their customers, potential customers, or overall society by providing convenience, reasonable pricing, and quality service. All the gung-ho SWAT raids and seizures for anything that is not at risk of evidence destruction are only treating symptoms of the real problem and will not solve a damn thing.
And that's why all of the examples given are absurd.
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Re: Re:
According to the article, this was exactly the sort of misrepresentation that the shops were engaging in. My guess is, not entirely knowingly. The may have themselves been fooled by their parts suppliers.
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Re: Re: why not say the word ???? COUNTERFEIT
The news article linked to in the story says outright that these were counterfeit parts, stamped with the Apple logo but not made by Apple.
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Re: why not say the word ???? COUNTERFEIT
When the day comes, I will probably have mine repaired. I love it, but by the time it breaks, it might no longer be possible to buy an Android phone without having some of my money going to Microsoft. If that's the case, I'll fix my old one instead. Or, if I can't, then I'll just go back to an old-fashioned dumb phone.
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Re:
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Re: Re: why not say the word ???? COUNTERFEIT
and this simply is not a true and correct statement. Therefore, I am not certain the accusation of counterfeit is true either.
Oh and I love the 'most likely' part. So we don't know, we are just guessing, but we are going to take it all because apple says so.
They may be getting substandard parts. Nothing illegal about sub standard or aftermarket parts (assuming that they don't violate a patent).
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Re:
That's an incorrect analogy. It'd be more like the guy at the flea market busted for sewing up the rips in your NFL jersey with thread that wasn't bought from the NFL. Capice?
And I don't believe the shops were trying to pass off the parts as official "Apple" parts at all. At least, that's what I got from Mike saying this:
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Re: Re:
Oh crap. Did I just violate someone's IP rights by inadvertently coming up with the same analogy independently? Oh, well. Sue away. Like they say: you can't get blood from a turnip.
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The Trademarked Plastic Mounting Ring
http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPad+Wi-Fi+Teardown/2183/1
The Ipad consists overwhelmingly of commodity parts. I realize this will come difficult to the Apple fanboys, but Apple has never really had a basic manufacturing proficiency much surpassing that of a home hobbyist. They job that stuff out to people who are in the business of manufacturing electronics-- such as Samsung. Apple is basically in the business of "nameplate engineering." About the only major functional component with an Apple logo is the CPU-- which Apple did not produce, and one little chip which looks as if it might be an amplifier or something like that. I would guess that soldering out the CPU chip, or any other chip, would be a fiendishly difficult business, as these are presumably surface-mounted. Anyway, CPU's are pretty well indestructible, so I doubt that's a common cause of failure. Those two chips seems to be the only ones bearing an Apple brand.
If you look at the components which are likely to need replacing, and which are feasible replacements, not involving robot-soldering or anything like that, the two obvious candidates are the battery and the screen, both of which seem to be non-Apple commodity parts. Apple's trademark claims probably rest on the glass front-bezel's plastic mounting-ring, which does have a little apple stamped on it. As is mentioned in the tear-down report, using a tool they call a "spudger," the Ifixit experimenters had to break the plastic snap-tabs which held the mounting ring to the backplate. You can't open the Ipad up without breaking the mounting ring, so presumably, you need a new mounting ring when you start putting the Ipad back together, and that would be where the trademark issue arises. There is presumably someone with a bootleg plastics manufacturing plant in California, and no doubt ICE will be valuing this mounting ring, which costs perhaps fifty cents to manufacture, at several hundred dollars each, on the theory that it turns a non-Apple-branded good into an Apple-branded good.
Incidentally, this is the way one would expect a five dollar toy to be built, not the way one would expect a computer to be built. Furthermore, an inexpensive pair of binoculars, or the like, has built-in looks or lugs, so that one can attach a strap, and avoid dropping them. It is almost as if the Ipad was intentionally designed to be dropped and broken.
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"Overheated phones could be used as a time delay thermal detonator for weapons of mass destruction"
new star wars meme:
"...because he's holding an iPhone with cheap knockoff parts!"
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What are our options when GENUINE parts are NOT available?
If they say "Time to buy a new car", OK. I'll buy a Ford.
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Re: Re: Blatant antitrust violation
That also means for instance that you can do oil changes in your car anywhere without voiding your car warranty.
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Re:
Homeland Security was supposed to have oversight over that storage but they didn't even know it was there. I'd say they've got more important matters on their plate than over heating phones, or shutting down web sites.
Priorities...
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Re:
Is that a trick question? Of course Apple wants the repair industry dead. That way the only alternative is to buy a new one.
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Please note, also, the repeated and urgent attempts to remove even semi-auto rifles from the hands of law abiding citizens.
Even the poor saps in Syria have full auto rifles and RPG's and they're struggling to get rid of a despot. Ask the Syrians if you should give up any more weapon types.
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Re: why not say the word ???? COUNTERFEIT
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Re: Re: why not say the word ???? COUNTERFEIT
Citation needed. But fortunately for you I read about it. And again it's not the same thing. Even if there was 100% certainty these shops were selling counterfeit parts.
"A United States Senate investigation in 2011 found about 1,800 incidents of counterfeit electronic parts being sold to the U.S. military. The incidents involved over 1 million counterfeit parts.70 percent of the counterfeit items were traced back to China.
The counterfeit parts were used on aircraft like the Air Force’s C-17 transport airplane and the CH-46 helicopter, as well as weapons systems such as the Army’s Theater High-Altitude Area Defense (THAAD) missile defense system.
"
http://www.havocscope.com/tag/counterfeit-aircraft-parts/
"Huge numbers of counterfeit Chinese electronics have entered the global aerospace supply chain with over one million believed to have be in use on US military aircraft."
"The automotive, electrical, military and aerospace industries have faced a huge increase in counterfeiting and have been waging a long battle against counterfeited products. In the electrical, military and aerospace industries the impact of counterfeiting goes far beyond intellectual property protection or trademark infringement.
"
"There is a long history of counterfeit airline parts which are unapproved and substandard being sold to unsuspecting airline companies. The US have discovered a lot of fake products showing up in their navy and airforce aircraft. Going back to the 1970s the Federal Aviation Administration found counterfeit systems in Boeing 737 aircraft."
"The semiconductor industry is also at war with counterfeiters producing dangerous counterfeit parts and components. Many semiconductor counterfeits emanate from China. The Semiconductor Industry Association (SIA) and the National Electronic Distributors Association (NEDA) are both aware of the need to prevent substandard and counterfeit components from infiltrating aerospace and military applications. An SIA Anti-Counterfeiting Task Force (ACTF) was set up in 2006 to establish a program to reduce the incidence of semiconductor product counterfeiting."
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Re: Re: why not say the word ???? COUNTERFEIT
So I assume these shops were not 'repairing' these phones they were just replacing the entire thing with a counterfeit unit.
So they are more just sellers of counterfeit products, under the name of 'repair'.
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Re: Re:
But a counterfeit part is a different matter, if you get new break pads on your car and they are counterfeit, and do not perform as expected (they are sub-standard), and you cant stop and you are killed. That is a problem.
Genuine parts are supplied with a responsibility, that means if they fail, you have someone who will compensate you, and who is working to ensure you car does not fail because of parts that do not do their job.
Genuine OEM parts are APPROVED and have met the required standards of performance, and function to be allowed for use.
Counterfeit parts are built cheaply, do not meet any minimum standard and are not tested to ensure they comply with the law and with the required specifications that the original correct part requires.
The components on phones if sub-standard can cause excess current to be drawn from the battery, possibly resulting in a fire or explosion.
If they are sub-standard, they make produce spurious emissions, with could (and probably will) result in network degradation for EVERYONE and interference to other services.
Watching one of those "aircraft crash investigation" programs, where the mounting bolts holding the jet engine was found to be counterfeit, it failed, the aircraft engine fell off, and the plane crashed (why it was on the TV Doco).
The investigation showed that counterfeit aircraft parts was a massive 'industry' and so pervasive that even counterfeit components were found in the most secure aircraft in the world.. Air Force One.
The engine mounting bolts came with all the correct (forged) certification, but when tested had no where near the required tensile strength, (they were cheap to make, expensive to sell).
But consumer (air line industry) paid THE FULL PRICE as if it was a genuine part, ($400 or $500 dollars for 1 bolt).
The part was probably made for $10 or less, was not tested, passed no quality control.
The consumer does not win because they got a counterfeit part, the consumer in this case believes they are getting genuine parts, and are not aware that someone is making lots of money and conning you.
In the case of aircraft part, (same with apple) in engines fall of Boeing aircraft, people will think that Boeing is doing something bad, or they just suck, their reputation suffers, they sell less planes and they easily could go out of business.
But that is even if it is not Boeing's fault, if a counterfeit component led to the engine falling off, Boeing suffers (as does apple with phones) because "Boeing aircraft" don't make good planes because engines sometimes fall off.
Now lets say you work at a factory that products 737 engine mounting bolts, you spend your day testing and in quality control, ensuring the component you produce meets certain specifications, you are fully aware that if the bolt you make fails, many people could be killed, you have a job and you are paid well.
So then the market for aircraft mounting bolts is flooded with counterfeit parts, airlines start to purchase them (because they look real, but are cheaper).
You boss tells you "we are not selling enough bolts, Sorry you have to go" you are out of work.
But hey, at least the airline industry are getting cheap parts, even if that means you have no job and people might well be killed because the company now producing those bolts do not bother with testing or quality control.
So you lose your job, and sub-standard parts made in another country are used in aircraft that you might be flying in..
is that ok with you ??
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Re: Re: Re: why not say the word ???? COUNTERFEIT
that makes them counterfeit by DEFINITION...
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Re: Re: why not say the word ???? COUNTERFEIT
When the day comes, I will probably have mine repaired."
no you wont, when the day comes you will probably at minimum get a replace complete and populated circuit board.
There is virtually NO component level repairs that can be done of modern phones or most modern electronics. Unless you are highly skilled and in possession of a very expensive SMD rework station.
these components could very well be made in the exact same fabrication plant as the genuine parts, but during the IC testing stage these are the component REJECTS, they have not come up to specifications, they are not 'fit for use' and are generally destroyed and made into more IC's.
But if those companies sell those failed components to someone else, they end up on the counterfeit market, they are not going to perform to standard.
That might mean you phone just does not work quite as well, or it might mean it blows up in your pocket, or produces so much radio noise it degrades the entire network (or your local network), or it might just lack some necessary security feature that makes it very easy to break into your phone.
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wow they don't have anything better to do?
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Re: Re: Re: why not say the word ???? COUNTERFEIT
e.g. the two most common things to break / wear out on phones, easily common enough to form the basis of a healthy parts & repair market
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Changing Batteries Should Not Be a Repair.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: why not say the word ???? COUNTERFEIT
English: 101
af·ter·mar·ket noun \-ˌmär-kət\
Definition of AFTERMARKET
Definition of COUNTERFEIT
The key phrase in counterfeit is "with intent to deceive".
If there was no intent to deceive then it is simply an aftermarket part much like the alternator you get from Autozone for your car. Unless Autozone (or their supplier) markets the alternator as a genuine part. The part is not counterfeit, it is simply after market.
So unless ICE intends to re-define counterfeit and shut down after market manufactures and re-sellers of auto parts (both mechanical and body) and other such parts for washers, dryers, stoves, grills, and virtually every other product out there, just because a thing is made to work in a product (i.e. a screen for an iPhone) they are just after market UNLESS they were marketed as original Apple parts (i.e. with intent to deceive).
To date I have seen no evidence in this case that shows the parts were counterfeit rather than aftermarket.
If it is labeled "screen for iPhone 5" that is aftermarket if it is labeled "Genuine Apple iPhone 5 Screen" and it is not manufactured with the blessing of Apple then it is counterfeit.
If they were counterfeit one would expect Apple, er um ICE to go after the supplier or manufacturer rather than the re-seller (who is not normally the counterfeiter).
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Re: Re: Re: why not say the word ???? COUNTERFEIT
It is true that a PCB is normally a throw away item, but even that could easily come from another discarded phone (ie a genuine Apple part (though used rather than new). Why do you think there is a market for damaged phones on places like gazelle.com? These repair shop buy them by the hundreds to get the parts to repair other phones. The purchased damaged phones are used to replace buttons, frames, PCBs and that is in addition to aftermarket batteries, screens, and backs.
Oh and a good electronics tech with the right equipment and some knowledge can repair even phone PCBs with some level of success. Often a good cleaning and reflow will get the PCB working again.
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Re: Changing Batteries Should Not Be a Repair.
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Re: Re:
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Re: Re:
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: wake up!
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Re: Re: Re: Re: why not say the word ???? COUNTERFEIT
Umm, no, it does not.
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What would a "reaction" (without the over) consist of in this case? As far as I can tell, doing nothing.
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Re: Changing Batteries Should Not Be a Repair.
if not google it and see, theres no door, you have to take the whole thing apart with special tools to replace the battery....apple charge a mint do to it(seen people pay over 100bucks to get a batter replaced by apple)
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Re: Re: Re: why not say the word ???? COUNTERFEIT
However, it can be repaired. I once did some work for a company who did just that (not on phones, but circuit boards of the same type and complexity). They had a room full of people with tiny soldering irons and huge, well-lit magnifying glasses. They did a brisk business.
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Re: Re: Re: why not say the word ???? COUNTERFEIT
Or unless I hire a company that does these sorts of repairs. I know of two I can drive to.
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Re: Re: Re: why not say the word ???? COUNTERFEIT
as to apples claim the parts where counterfeit, i wouldnt take that as fact, they once told me that a screen I had replased in an iphone for somebody was counterfeit....i had pulled it out of an iphone thats battery had bulged and stopped holding a charge....mind it was an iphone that had never been opened till i swapped its screen with a cracked one..
in the end the apple store guy did some magic and got both phones replaced for the people I had done the work for...despite apple taking no responcibility for the failure of the battery(he made up another excuse it failed that apple would accept)
it still cost them, and you should enjoy this, 235usd to get the 2 phones replaced...
the one whos screen had broken was dropped 6 inches onto a kitchen table and the screen just shattered.....
apple consider anything you do yourself or thats not done in their own shops to be counterfeit, even my repairing/upgrading of apple systems is considered counterfeit because I never use apple branded ram(because its 2-6x the price)
this is the company caught shipping referb hdd's in new imac's and mini's not to long ago selling the units as new....
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Re:
They aren't particularly cheap either. I've seen iPhones and iPads keep trucking with cracked screens that put lesser phones and tablets out of commission.
(for the record, I am an iPad user; I am likely to never own an iPhone; The hardware is solid, but I still think they both suck.)
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Re:
Do you want ICE raiding the flea markets I attend every weekend???!!!
Sheeesh....
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Re:
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Re: why not say the word ???? COUNTERFEIT
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Re: Re: Re: why not say the word ???? COUNTERFEIT
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What can we do but lie back and take this?
Does anyone have any idea what can actually be done here or can we all just agree that we're powerless to stop the government no matter what we may think about our "personal rights and freedoms"?
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Repair legally
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This sound stupid
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smartphone tcl n3
How are you!
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we are cooperate with Lenovo,ZTE ,HUAWEI original manufacturer and so on.we send this message hope can bring you some bifinite.our shop address as follow:
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you can contact with me by clliao@hanvideo.com, if there are chances to cooperate with you
thank you ,have a nice day
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Re: why not say the word ???? COUNTERFEIT
So you would rather pay $150 to get a refurb instead of $50 to have a battery swapped?
Why aren't they going after the manufacturers of these parts? Shouldn't we be asking this. Because everything is made in China! All of Apple's parts are made in CHINA. They do not manufacture, they outsource to manufacturers, hence why there are almost 1k companies in China making parts for their devices. Why go after the tiny small business which employees US citizens and seize their property? Let's keep putting small business out of business, the future looks bright.
Why wouldn't a repair shop have 10k worth of parts for a single device? The parts on the 5s are $200-300 each for the front glass alone. The iPhone 5 original parts cost over $100 for a piece of glass. A busy repair shop would need many of these weekly.
Isn't it the job of customs to stop these parts from entering the country in the first place? Why does it matter if they use a "aftermarket" part anyway? As long as the customer is aware then why is it an issue. The majority of the phones are owned and out of warranty that are repaired.
What would you do if you had all your valuable documents, photos, videos, and emails on a phone and your only solution was to get a refurbished replacement?
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Re: What can we do but lie back and take this?
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Re: Response to: Anonymous Coward on Apr 30th, 2013 @ 9:11am
Regards,
atif,
http://batbooti.com/
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there are liers
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ICE too strong
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cut prices
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Response to: Titania Bonham-Smythe on Apr 30th, 2013 @ 8:39am
The parts are not apple and will never last and if I take it to apple to fix it they wont because of the fake screen
The repair shop is saying there was damage before
But there was not .
Now what do I do
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Re: why not say the word ???? COUNTERFEIT
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mobile repair
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mobile repair
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Re: why not say the word ???? COUNTERFEIT
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Mobile Repairs
If you break your phone, tablet, mac, PC or laptop, it sure would want an expert to repair it. If you go to a local repair shop, they could fix your cell quickly e.g. in less than an hour and some shops even offered to come to the house to repair it. This means you will not be without a phone for long. Also, many repair shops offer a warranty on the parts they replace, which means you can recall to fix your screen if for any reason stops working unless if your fault broke again.
Thanks
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ICE renting themselves out
This smacks of ICE appearing in New Zealand to raid Kim Dotcom's house in 2012. ICE didn't exactly have jurisdiction in New Zealand nor is their job to attack alleged copyright infringers. Curiously at the time MPAA advisors were on site. I suspect it was them who wanted to see a SWAT style raid, rather than (as Dotcom noted) intercepting him on his routine way to work.
ICE are serving as corporate mercenaries. And I suspect the department is getting a fee from Apple for these raids.
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Re: ICE too strong
They have guns and troopers willing to use them. That's their power. They need to be challenged for acting as mercenaries under the color of law enforcement.
I don't know if Kim Dotcom's counter suits include challenging the jurisdiction of ICE (ICE was responsible for the raid on his house and his arrest, and were doing it essentially as MPAA goons), but ICE is going to continue serving as a rent-a-SWAT until a legal challenge.
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What makes them counterfeit?
The Apple logo doesn't go on until the product is complete. Screens, screws, batteries, even circuit-boards are made by secondary manufacturers. And they do make extras and sell them as OEM.
Granted, repair shops have had a long history of replacing Apple-installed bolts (that is, Foxconn-installed screws) with weird keys with standard Philips-head bolts. But that's because Apple was only doing this to fuck with repair shops.
At what point did it become against the fucking law to repair a thing you own? Because it was inserted into an unreasonable TOS? This is how we get extreme levels of piracy.
(Piracy beyond its use to indicate maritime raiding seems always to be applied with doing something unlicensed. I wonder if this emerged from the difference between piracy and privateering)
The thing is at this point we're creating crimes by prohibiting perfectly legitimate behavior by mandating licenses which are totally not for the protection of the end users, but a way to enhance the revenues of already huge companies, to the point they're hiring mercenaries to enforce their monopolies.
Didn't we suffer enough though the middle ages to be done with this sort of bullshit?
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FBI too
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