Google Being Pressured Into Crippling Self-Driving Cars
from the disruptive-innovation dept
One of the most common results of disruptive technologies is that the legacy players scream to the heavens (or, rather, the politicians) about how dangerous the new technology is and how people will die if that new technology isn't crippled. One of the most ridiculous examples of this -- from over a century ago -- was with the introduction of automobiles. Some transportation competitors raised such a stink about how dangerous cars were, that a few governments passed so called red flag traffic laws, that required someone to walk in front of any car, waving a red flag to warn people of what was coming. One of the most famous, in the UK, included this:... one of such persons, while any locomotive is in motion, shall precede such locomotive on foot by not less than sixty yards, and shall carry a red flag constantly displayed, and shall warn the riders and drivers of horses of the approach of such locomotives...Of course, those who were once the disruptors often become the incumbents, so it should be little surprise that automakers are on the other side of things when it comes to the eventual roll out of Google's self-driving cars. The Wall Street Journal is reporting that politicians and automakers are pushing Google to cripple their self-driving cars while also delaying the roll out.
Google Inc. , under pressure to slow down development of driverless cars, may crimp the capabilities of the first auto products that it brings to market, people close to the company say. That may mean that cars using Google's software may not drive faster than 25 miles per hour and may feature a foam front end to limit the extent of damage caused in the event of a collision.Yes, there are some irrational fears about self-driving cars. Undoubtedly, there will be some malfunctions and accidents. And a lot of legal issues are unsettled. However, crippling the cars to the point that they're almost useless seems rather silly. Regular, human-driven cars are notoriously unreliable and subject to accidents. It's quite likely that as more self-driving cars are on the road that accidents will decline massively, as the technology will actually make the roads much safer.
While the article highlights the potential legal concerns and "public perception" of self-driving cars as a reason to cripple the first round of those cars, there are also, not surprisingly, competing automakers and tech companies in the mix, with their fear that Google's willingness to keep innovating may leave them all far behind:
Auto makers and technology companies have made significant investments in the development of self-driving cars, although they favor a much more cautious, step-by-step approach than Google's leadership does. How the car research plays out will say a lot about how Google's innovative process will work as the company continues to mature and enter huge new markets such as transportation. It has run roughshod over the wireless phone industry for the last few years, quickly establishing the dominance of its Android operating system. But the auto industry has seen that story unfold, and doesn't want to be cast unwillingly in a sequel.In other words, spreading FUD about self-driving cars means Google can't be as aggressive in pushing the envelope, and maybe we can hold back the tide for a few more profitable years of the old, more dangerous, kinds of cars.
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Filed Under: disruptive innovation, innovation, self-driving cars
Companies: google
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And the reason regular non-self driving cars don't already have these foam front ends is because...?
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I suspect the performance of foam would be even worse.
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The red flags were to warn HORSES, sonny.
Your ignorance about real reasons to warn horses back then doesn't augur well for your notions about autonomous vehicles of the future. -- Just Windows on an ordinary desktop has been known to cause death.
Remember the problems in Robocop, the entire Terminator series, HAL in 2001, "I, Robot"? Your usual sources are full of the dangers of automation. May still be a few bugs to work out.
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Re: The red flags were to warn HORSES, sonny.
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Re: Re: The red flags were to warn HORSES, sonny.
1. live in a rural area where have more horses and cows as neighbors than people...
2. had g'friend i lived with for a number of years who had hayburners... my friends down the road have a bunch...
3. i'm not saying horses are dumb (although a lot of horse owners might), but they are not pigs (or even dogs)...
4. horses number one defense mechanism is to RUN AWAY (while they can kick the shit out of you, *and* pick you up with their mouths and throw you like a rag doll, running away is their main defense mechanism)
5. in furtherance of that defense mechanism, horses ARE spooky... i don't care how well trained they are, how well they have become acclimated to gun shots, etc (some don't, by the way, just like dogs, they can be gun-shy), their defense mechanism kicks in when they are confronted by unknown situations: a snake/rattler, smoke/fire, a car backfire, or even the wind blowing a plastic bag against a fence a half mile away can send them rocketing away without any warning...
also, do NOT turn your back on any horse you don't know (and even if you do), some are very mischievious (sp?), and they WILL nip you out of curiousity, spite, fun, or simply boredom...
art guerrilla
aka ann archy
eof
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Re: Re: The red flags were to warn HORSES, sonny.
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Re: Re: The red flags were to warn HORSES, sonny.
I've never shown horses except to visitors, but I have lived on a farm and as you may have guessed, have relatives who still live on the farm.
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Re: The red flags were to warn HORSES, sonny.
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Re: The red flags were to warn HORSES, sonny.
I'm not sure what you're saying here. Are you saying we should be basing laws on works of fiction (actually, given your usual idiocy here, you probably are)? Or are you saying that despite having been deeply explored in both science fact and science fiction extensively over the last century, nobody at Google or elsewhere has considered the potential dangers of new technology?
Well, at least you haven't gone on a paranoid lunatic rant about Google this time, even though the article actually mentions them. progress, I suppose.
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Re: The red flags were to warn HORSES, sonny.
I concede that OOTB's references to Science Fiction as proof of the dangers of technology may be silly, there is none of the usual ranting or wailing at TD or Mike or even Google. There is no reason to hide his post.
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Re: Re: The red flags were to warn HORSES, sonny.
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Re: The red flags were to warn HORSES, sonny.
The reason horses don't get spooked today is because they're more used to the cars, and the newer horse gear makes it so that the horses can only see what's directly in front of them, so that they won't be able to really see other cars on the road.
But there's ZERO reasons for these silly restrictions on google's self driving cars. They've had only 1 accident, caused by someone else rear ending them at a red light. If self driving cars are so dangerous then I'd like car manufactures to explain how the parallel park yourself option on their cars aren't dangerous. At those slow speeds to park a foam bumper might actually make sense.
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Re: Re: The red flags were to warn HORSES, sonny.
I suspect most people who reported it were doing so due to the handle of the author rather than the content of the post. Whether fair or not, most of ootb's posts contain little of value or truth, even if this one contained a nugget of such before going off the rails.
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Re: Re: Re: The red flags were to warn HORSES, sonny.
They prefer to censor, that to engage in a discussion.
Also, you are a troll here, if you post something that does not agree with the article.
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*However*, their utility and what they make possible outweigh these dangers. Utility and potential that would never have come to pass had the crippling restrictions remained.
It's right to be cautious, but overly restricting new technology is equally problematic.
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The USPS might not like this either as it could potentially be used to provide anyone with driver-less delivery and hence not needing the post office anymore.
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I need to pick someone up at the airport. They can take a taxi instead because I'm at work. Nevermind, I'll just direct my car to pick them up, take them home, and come back to pick me up at work.
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Why would I need my own vehicle at all if there are plenty of automated cabs all over that I can easily summon from my smartphone for cheap?
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The reason why there are so few taxi-cabs here isn't because cost is high. It's because prices are artificially high. It's because of the government established monopoly involved. Monopoly reduces supply, resulting in fewer taxi-cab drivers, and increases prices. and taxi-cab drivers here in the united states don't get paid well, most of that money goes to the medallion holders (ie: a corporation or whatever). The taxi-cab cartel does not want automated cars competing with them, they will have to reduce prices if such cars did compete which will cause them to reduce profits.
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http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090625/0207255356.shtml
The reason your dreamworld isn't true has little to do with cost and much more to do with corrupt regulations.
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090813/1814005872.shtml
http://www.techdirt.co m/articles/20101024/21393211556/company-making-cab-limo-rides-more-efficient-ordered-to-stop.shtml
and what's really outrageous
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090825/0453005994.shtml
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That never stopped the MPAA from lobbying against newer technologies.
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Turcker Sedan
Hopefully Google's big enough to stand up and defend itself, and I hope someone involved in this project is familiar with the Tucker.
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And there are some perfectly rational fears, too. I could just as easily say "There are some irrational desires to force self-driving cars on everyone."
How about THIS fear: Pack a car with explosives, set it to drive to your destination of choice, then jump out. Massive destruction without ever having to even enter the same general area as the target. OK, not enough of a worry to stop production or anything, but it's something to consider. And it's not irrational, it's GOING to happen as soon as they become common enough.
How about THIS fear: The government wants to arrest you? It just sends a friendly note to Google (or a car company, once they catch up) and your car locks its doors, rolls up its windows, and drives itself to the police station. Inevitably this will happen to some 75 year old guy who bought the wrong used car, who will then got either shot or tazed at the police station when the 30 cops waiting for him mistake his confusion for aggression, even though the person they wanted to arrest is 22.
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Of course it will, just as the same thing already happens with cars that require a driver. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Glasgow_International_Airport_attack
That doesn't explain why new restrictions would be necessary on the new cars that don't apply to the old. In fact, you could argue that the increased range and automatic control make them safer with regards to terrorism(more time to react, possibility of law enforcement remotely intercepting or redirecting car before it reaches its target without a risky high speed chase).
As for the other fear? Meh. It's no different to no knock warrants and the like that happen now. If someone wanted to get you they can anyway, and "mistakes" regularly happen. No point crippling a new technology just because there's anew tool for them to do what they already do.
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I'll bet there were more than a few of these in the '60s.
This is actually very likely. Already, there are commercial systems that can get iris prints, from a substantial distance, of everyone in a crowd passing by at the same time. For most purposes, this is as good as retina scans. Nonetheless, progress is being made in doing the same thing with retinal scans.
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For security reasons, any self-driving car will have a manual override, so the driver can take over if it misbehaves. In a farther future where there are cars without manual controls, the manual override will stop the vehicle. In either case, there will be a way to manually open the doors from the inside, in case the vehicle lost power or the door systems malfunctioned.
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Seen a very good documentary about driverless cars
Their level of accuracy and reliability has yet to be proven, it's not about crippling the technology, it's about ensuring the technology is up to the task, that will not be proven until it can be displayed that they can handle the current set speed.
Gotta walk before you can run.
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Do you not see..
It should be the taxi and bus companies that are fighting this. The automaker industry will benefit from a high turnover of a few regular models, even if the overall market for cars will shrink dramatically.
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Auto industries
why do you think they still employ pilots in aircraft that can fly fully automated from gate to gate ?
Because computers WILL break down, or get confused, or have a sensor fault, and in those situations you need a human that can recognise the difference between a faulty speedo or a stuck accelerator.
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Re: Auto industries
Self driving cars NEEDS to happen.
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Re: Auto industries
Can they really? As far as I know, the pilot has to program the autoland, like is done with the autopilot. It is more like a very smart cruise control than a fully automated system.
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Who's legally responsible
It's a simple question, without a simple answer!
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Re: Who's legally responsible
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Would a Pinto blow up on its' own or when someone lost control and rear ended you? Who was held responsible?
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Correct. They do not object to technology, they object to competition
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Hmmm...
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Revenue Enhancement Problem
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2--- no suicide bombers, just have a car drive up to the front of an airport, then come apart at super sonic velocity.
3--- profit.
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How are automakers competitors?
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Re: How are automakers competitors?
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That's OK
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Re: That's OK
"Third world" means not allied with the United States or the Soviet Union (when it existed). It doesn't actually mean "impoverished," although most third world nations are. (There are first and second world nations that are impoverished as well.)
The US, by definition, can never be a third world nation. We can certainly become impoverished.
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Re: Re: That's OK
What are you hanging from?
But seriously, "third world nation", while technically a matter of alliance, has come to be synonymous with "developing nation".
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Self driving cars
All vehicles should be rigorously examined and required to pass independent security audits especially self driving cars.
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Re: Self driving cars
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Computer drivers could be safer than human drivers
We're still driving basically the same vehicle as we did 100 years ago: an internal combustion engine, powered by gasoline, and driven by a human. Sure, there have been huge cosmetic changes, such as aerodynamic (and stylish) car designs, larger interior space, and (usually forced-upon) increases in gas mileage.
It's like GM complaining they couldn't compete with Japanese car companies simply because they chose to make SUV's instead of hybrid cars.
Yes, a computer-driven car can malfunction, but how does this compare with human drivers, who could be drunk or tired or texting or distracted or lost or any number of other things. Or rather, compare a computer driver with human drivers during stressful times, such as merging onto the highway (that's a yield sign, not a stop sign) or obeying traffic laws (yes, you can turn right on a red light; slower traffic stay to the right, etc).
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Re: Computer drivers could be safer than human drivers
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Safety and Legalities
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Self driving liability
These cars will have massive black boxes that record everything including video and audio from inside the car.
But without intelligent legislation at this point it will be determined by case law.
What about the case where the driver—who is supposed to back stop the car is inattentive (very likely), incapacitated (drunk, drugged, a sleep, or just employees bad judgement like today?
Now how about the car computer is hacked and it is driven by some one else into other cars or a bridge abutment?
BTW check up on this http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/journalist-michael-hastings-killed-car-crash-article-1.1376 574
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My only fear of this technology
I doubt a foam bump would help if the car runs over somebody like your Mom, your Grandma or your best friend. But I guess a human being could also "malfunction" when he's drunk or thinking about something else while driving.
Still. It's natural to be scared of new things at first... I suppose.
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Autonomiious automobiles are currently a terrible idea
Against this are two things: today any computer program complex enough to do something interesting can't be completely debugged.
Second is the inherently faulty design of the car's control systems. They are all on one common buss and compromise of any system will compromise vital ones as well as the WiFi or the entertainment center. This means that today's cars are easily hacked remotely via things like the tire pressure sensors. There have been presentations at most of the recent hacking conferences on the vulnerabilities of today's cars. Unless these are systematically addressed; which the automakers aren't interested in doing, cars and trucks are increasingly hazardous!
Hopefully any autonomous vehicle will address these problems. But the lack of reliable software still remains.
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self driving cars
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https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110426/14571614044/administration-bangs-drum-support-need less-protectionism-world-ip-day.shtml#c224
Not to mention that taxicab monopolies likely harm the environment because taxicab companies have incentive to keep their cars as fuel efficient as possible to save money (and perhaps to have their own in-house repair shops or to contract in bulk where repairs that increase efficiency are done routinely in opposed to paying on a per repair basis, ensuring their tires are properly inflated and that they're using tires that safe fuel, their car is properly oiled, etc...) and to do whatever they can to provide the most transportation using the least amount of fuel (ie: by carpooling and planning their routs to maximize carpooling). It's much easier and more efficient for a company that specializes in cars to deal with cars than it is to force a much larger population to deal with them many of which are car illiterate.
Not to mention having more taxi-cabs creates efficiencies in that fewer cars can be used to serve more people and fewer cars require less parking space and less parking space is more space that can be used to build buildings and roads and improve congestion (more roads and fewer cars = less congestion).
Another thing that's bad for the economy are these toll lanes. Hypothetically speaking lets assume we have two uniform lanes and the average speed on each is 30 miles per hour. Now lets say one of those lanes turns into a toll lane and its average speed shoots up to 45 miles per hour. Assuming the same number of vehicles and assuming that miles per hour has a linear relationship with speed the other lane may now be reduced to 15 miles per hour (if you have fewer drivers as a result the reduction in the number of drivers is a loss in utility).
Now the utility gained to those driving in the fast lane is 15 miles per hour (30 Mph original speed if fast lanes don't exist + 15 miles per hour extra speed). But what they're willing to pay is an extra 30 MPH of utility (the difference between the toll lane and the regular lanes which are now 15 MPH). So the toll lanes only benefit those that use it that are willing to pay what they are paying at 45 miles per hour had the regular lane been moving 30 miles an hour (and not 15) and it only helps them during the specific times that they are using the toll lanes and are willing to pay what they are paying for those extra 15 miles an hour. It otherwise hurts them and it hurts them during the times that they aren't using the toll lanes and are using the regular lanes instead. In the meantime everyone else that's not using the toll lanes is hurt because they are being forced to travel at a slower speed.
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self driving cars
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